Hey I'm p new to Magic only been playing a year. I only have red/ white and blue/ white standard decks, and my buddy uses a blue/ green that has multiple aetherlings, and when they come out he wins. What can I do within my colors to stop him?
Also sorry for not knowing much but I don't understand how pithing needle stops him, aren't all his abilities mana abilities?
It's a good card, but control has never lacked for win conditions. A control deck that stabilizes should be able to win off of effectively anything. I mean, look at mindslaver, which is able to deck its opponent one card at a time, counter-post which overwhelms its opponent one token at a time, or even drownyard. As long as the means to stabilize exists, control will eventually lock the other player out and win, using the most compact win condition it can manage.
What control needs right now is a way to survive. There are games where you might not make it to turn four to drop your verdict, and green/white midrange decks generate absurd card advantage that no draw-go deck can compete with. The problem with control is not a lack of a finisher, it's a lack of survival tools in general. I mean, control right now has some of the best weapons it's ever had in Snapcaster Mage, Sphix's Revelation, Supreme Verdict, and nominally decent counters like Syncopate and Dissipate, yet it's still not putting up the results. The reason is that just isn't fast enough, and can't generate the card advantage to keep up with midrange.
I mean think about this: Aetherling could be used as a finisher in a control deck, but a bant midrange deck will get it out faster, be more resilient, and have other efficient beaters to back it up and improve its resiliency, all whilst generating massive card advantage and gaining life. It wouldn't matter what finisher you used for a control deck, that kind of advantage is insurmountable. Reactive control cannot really exist in this kind of meta, and it's not even because of the supposed variety of decks; at the end of the day, it's just plain mathematics.
Sorry, but within one paragraph you're talking about not making it to turn 4, but then in the next talking about bant powering out Aetherling and efficient beaters. If they're not getting to Verdict mana, how are they getting to Thragtusk or is this code for a different efficient card?
Red gives you stability in terms of efficient cheap answers - not many other control decks can answer a Voice at low enough cost to keep respectable mana open (1 mana for Pillar of Flame, 3 mana for Oblivion Ring). Also when it comes to surviving until the Verdict, being able to pick off a Lightning Mauler at the right time buys you more than a turn of life. Plus it means you can just not have the Verdict...being able to run 2 Helix and 2 Verdict is welcome flexibility. Anyone who's ever seen Farseeks into a mana flood knows what I mean, whereas drawing a Searing Spear or a Turn/Burn is usually welcome enough for turn 2 or turn 6.
I'm not sure how you define reactive control anyway, but I won my Game Day with UWR control. 2 Aetherling as win condition - sorely tempted by third in the board but Slaughter Games is a thing to make me diversify. Outside 3 Augur, 2 Verdict and 2 Aetherling everything else in my main deck had flash, was an instant or a land. I ran 4 Azorius Charm, 2 Think Twice, 3 Revelation and 4 main deck counterspells. The other finalist played UWR flash with more of a Runechanter's Pike package and didn't go up to Aetherling. That card is the reason I have a new playmat today, what more do you want from this thread people?
Hey I'm p new to Magic only been playing a year. I only have red/ white and blue/ white standard decks, and my buddy uses a blue/ green that has multiple aetherlings, and when they come out he wins. What can I do within my colors to stop him?
Also sorry for not knowing much but I don't understand how pithing needle stops him, aren't all his abilities mana abilities?
They're not mana abilities. a mana ability refers to such as Birds of Paradise i.e. if it produces mana on activation. It's basically so you can name Nephalia Drownyard without it being a little like a strip mine.
Other than Pithing Needle, you can fog it, try and catch them on the stack (although a good Aetherling player will usually play around this with enough mana open) or use something like Debtor's Pulpit as a repeatable answer. Otherwise you need to kill him quicker.
Sorry, but within one paragraph you're talking about not making it to turn 4, but then in the next talking about bant powering out Aetherling and efficient beaters. If they're not getting to Verdict mana, how are they getting to Thragtusk or is this code for a different efficient card?
Red gives you stability in terms of efficient cheap answers - not many other control decks can answer a Voice at low enough cost to keep respectable mana open (1 mana for Pillar of Flame, 3 mana for Oblivion Ring). Also when it comes to surviving until the Verdict, being able to pick off a Lightning Mauler at the right time buys you more than a turn of life. Plus it means you can just not have the Verdict...being able to run 2 Helix and 2 Verdict is welcome flexibility. Anyone who's ever seen Farseeks into a mana flood knows what I mean, whereas drawing a Searing Spear or a Turn/Burn is usually welcome enough for turn 2 or turn 6.
I'm not sure how you define reactive control anyway, but I won my Game Day with UWR control. 2 Aetherling as win condition - sorely tempted by third in the board but Slaughter Games is a thing to make me diversify. Outside 3 Augur, 2 Verdict and 2 Aetherling everything else in my main deck had flash, was an instant or a land. I ran 4 Azorius Charm, 2 Think Twice, 3 Revelation and 4 main deck counterspells. The other finalist played UWR flash with more of a Runechanter's Pike package and didn't go up to Aetherling. That card is the reason I have a new playmat today, what more do you want from this thread people?
There are two archetypes dominating standard right now: aggro and midrange. Traditional control doesn't interact with the board much, making it weaker to aggro than midrange. If you put Aetherling into a control deck as your primary win condition, you're going to be leaning on supreme verdict to get you through to the late game where you can drop a bomb; as I said, you may not survive long enough to actually use your verdict, because aggro is so fast right now. If you put him into a bant midrange shell, you can ramp into him with mana dorks that can also act as chump blockers against blitz nut draws. You have more options for stabilising with cards like Thragtusk, smiter, and resto, and once they hit the board, you're almost guaranteed a win.
As for my definition of control, I don't believe that most of the control decks we're seeing this season are actually control decks. Most of them are midrange, and make use of efficient creatures and disrupting their opponent's tempo, rather than outright controlling what their opponent can and can't do.
There are two archetypes dominating standard right now: aggro and midrange. Traditional control doesn't interact with the board much, making it weaker to aggro than midrange.
You don't have any idea what you're talking about. A control deck can put a bunch of 1-2 mana answers into its post-board configuration vs an aggro deck and easily handle even the nuttiest of openings from the nuttiest of aggro decks.
If you put Aetherling into a control deck as your primary win condition, you're going to be leaning on supreme verdict to get you through to the late game where you can drop a bomb; as I said, you may not survive long enough to actually use your verdict, because aggro is so fast right now.
This is making false assumptions that 1) Wrath defines control decks 2) Control players actually want to run Wrath in this metagame 3) Control decks don't interact until turn 3-4. Why would Verdict be a good stabilizing card against aggro decks devoted to haste creatures, in the first place? That's ridiculous.
Your finisher is irrelevant to how you make it to the late game. If you don't have the ability to survive 7 turns against an aggressive deck (mulligan/unbelievably bad draw outliers aside), either your control deck sucks or you don't know how to pilot it.
If you put him into a bant midrange shell, you can ramp into him with mana dorks that can also act as chump blockers against blitz nut draws. You have more options for stabilising with cards like Thragtusk, smiter, and resto, and once they hit the board, you're almost guaranteed a win.
If Thragtusk is a guaranteed win, then I'm a cybernetic organism from 30 years into the future.
As for my definition of control, I don't believe that most of the control decks we're seeing this season are actually control decks. Most of them are midrange, and make use of efficient creatures and disrupting their opponent's tempo, rather than outright controlling what their opponent can and can't do.
This is the smartest thing in your entire post. But, even if most people are just building midrange decks, that doesn't mean it's possible to build a real control deck in this format and metagame.
Control deck are defined by the tools at hand versus the threats top decks present to answer. Just casually looking at Standard (which I play somewhat) the threat variety and density versus the typically used answer cards seems loose. I have a friend of mine who has been playing Esper control for months in various incarnations and uilds used to fight specific metagames. He as done ok, but a common gripe from him is that threat density and variety versus the requirement of more narrow answers plus the narrow answer cards provided in his color scheme are what makes it insurmountable. Answer cards, to me at least seem to have gotten much worse, whereas threat cards have incredible resilience and require a multitude of ansers in any given match. The "generic" answer cards of yesteryore are somewhat here, like wrath effects, or instant speed drawing, but the sheer power and resilience of threats makes it so even generic answers aren't as powerful as they once were.
This guy is awesome against control decks. Yes, if you stabilized against aggro/midrange, it's still awesome, but then U can kill with any creature, Resto or even Snaps. But control usually has no effective answers for Aetherling if he successfully hits the board.
The bugger is hard as hell to answer once he resolves. The best way to beat the card is probably just to make sure he never enters the battlefield at all, either via discard or counters.
Neither of these are perfect solutions since after sideboarding most control decks are better equipped to handle non-creature spells ('walkers, counters etc.) then this monster of a finisher. Thank God he costs 6+...
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I know it is still months off, but I've been tinkering around on MTGO with a BUG control archtype using AEtherling as a win con for post rotation (when Thragtusk and other core creatures rotate out) with cards like Plasm Capture, Desecration Demon, and other removal and counters. Right now I'm trying to balance the right amount of counters, removal, and dig spells.
So far I've been more than pleased with the results, I'm not winning all the time, nor is it ready to take into events, but what I've been seeing is VERY encouraging. Some ramp in the form of Farseek makes this guy hit the board even faster.
So far I've been more than pleased with the results, I'm not winning all the time, nor is it ready to take into events, but what I've been seeing is VERY encouraging. Some ramp in the form of Farseek makes this guy hit the board even faster.
T1 Pilgrim - T2 Farseek - T3 Plasm Capture -> T4 Aetherling with mana to spare for evasion
right now im stocking up on counterflux because of the looming blue metagame on the horizion. 'uncounterable counterspells are probably the most guaranted way to stop an opposing aetherling. Right now im working together a draw go Rug Aetherling deck running 'Plasm capture, counterflux, and syncopate.
Also sorry for not knowing much but I don't understand how pithing needle stops him, aren't all his abilities mana abilities?
Sorry, but within one paragraph you're talking about not making it to turn 4, but then in the next talking about bant powering out Aetherling and efficient beaters. If they're not getting to Verdict mana, how are they getting to Thragtusk or is this code for a different efficient card?
Red gives you stability in terms of efficient cheap answers - not many other control decks can answer a Voice at low enough cost to keep respectable mana open (1 mana for Pillar of Flame, 3 mana for Oblivion Ring). Also when it comes to surviving until the Verdict, being able to pick off a Lightning Mauler at the right time buys you more than a turn of life. Plus it means you can just not have the Verdict...being able to run 2 Helix and 2 Verdict is welcome flexibility. Anyone who's ever seen Farseeks into a mana flood knows what I mean, whereas drawing a Searing Spear or a Turn/Burn is usually welcome enough for turn 2 or turn 6.
I'm not sure how you define reactive control anyway, but I won my Game Day with UWR control. 2 Aetherling as win condition - sorely tempted by third in the board but Slaughter Games is a thing to make me diversify. Outside 3 Augur, 2 Verdict and 2 Aetherling everything else in my main deck had flash, was an instant or a land. I ran 4 Azorius Charm, 2 Think Twice, 3 Revelation and 4 main deck counterspells. The other finalist played UWR flash with more of a Runechanter's Pike package and didn't go up to Aetherling. That card is the reason I have a new playmat today, what more do you want from this thread people?
They're not mana abilities. a mana ability refers to such as Birds of Paradise i.e. if it produces mana on activation. It's basically so you can name Nephalia Drownyard without it being a little like a strip mine.
Other than Pithing Needle, you can fog it, try and catch them on the stack (although a good Aetherling player will usually play around this with enough mana open) or use something like Debtor's Pulpit as a repeatable answer. Otherwise you need to kill him quicker.
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I outraced it yesterday. I was playing Jund Midrange. My opponent was at 17 when he dropped it.
There are two archetypes dominating standard right now: aggro and midrange. Traditional control doesn't interact with the board much, making it weaker to aggro than midrange. If you put Aetherling into a control deck as your primary win condition, you're going to be leaning on supreme verdict to get you through to the late game where you can drop a bomb; as I said, you may not survive long enough to actually use your verdict, because aggro is so fast right now. If you put him into a bant midrange shell, you can ramp into him with mana dorks that can also act as chump blockers against blitz nut draws. You have more options for stabilising with cards like Thragtusk, smiter, and resto, and once they hit the board, you're almost guaranteed a win.
As for my definition of control, I don't believe that most of the control decks we're seeing this season are actually control decks. Most of them are midrange, and make use of efficient creatures and disrupting their opponent's tempo, rather than outright controlling what their opponent can and can't do.
You don't have any idea what you're talking about. A control deck can put a bunch of 1-2 mana answers into its post-board configuration vs an aggro deck and easily handle even the nuttiest of openings from the nuttiest of aggro decks.
This is making false assumptions that 1) Wrath defines control decks 2) Control players actually want to run Wrath in this metagame 3) Control decks don't interact until turn 3-4. Why would Verdict be a good stabilizing card against aggro decks devoted to haste creatures, in the first place? That's ridiculous.
Your finisher is irrelevant to how you make it to the late game. If you don't have the ability to survive 7 turns against an aggressive deck (mulligan/unbelievably bad draw outliers aside), either your control deck sucks or you don't know how to pilot it.
If Thragtusk is a guaranteed win, then I'm a cybernetic organism from 30 years into the future.
This is the smartest thing in your entire post. But, even if most people are just building midrange decks, that doesn't mean it's possible to build a real control deck in this format and metagame.
Neither of these are perfect solutions since after sideboarding most control decks are better equipped to handle non-creature spells ('walkers, counters etc.) then this monster of a finisher. Thank God he costs 6+...
Many thanks to HotP Studios. Special thanks to DNC for this great sig.
So far I've been more than pleased with the results, I'm not winning all the time, nor is it ready to take into events, but what I've been seeing is VERY encouraging. Some ramp in the form of Farseek makes this guy hit the board even faster.
T1 Pilgrim - T2 Farseek - T3 Plasm Capture -> T4 Aetherling with mana to spare for evasion
Standard:
RUGDeadeye Combo/Midrange
UGRWBDefender Combo
Modern:
GardgaGeddon
Mana Bloom is also reasonable as a 5th or 6th Farseek, being able to use it on each turn with Aetherling greatly increases it's effectiveness.
Bident Layers
B Devotion
RG Devotion
UW Control
Modern:
Jund
UW Control
Combo Pod
Legacy:
DeathBlade
RUG Delver
BUG Control