Try to Slaughter Games their Slaughter Games, if they are on the play and they pull it off, then you're an aggro deck with a bunch of humans and it's a different deck at that point, still winnable as you have alot of threats, but they are not that exciting by themselves so it becomes harder or, alot harder, depending on your match up.
I am hoping that I avoid decks using Slaughter Games alltogether, since the deck's not been on the radar lately, and it's confined to black/red colors, but if it happens and they pull it off, well with any deck, there are scenarios that are bad against an opposing strategy, no matter what I play there's going to be "I hope I don't run into that too much" etc.
I've seen the support for Slaughter Games drop so quickly. When Aristocrats first hit the scene I was having trouble if they were on the play and had it game 2. Other than that, I think both Aristocrats (old and Act II) and Jund have dropped it en mass. Even if you do come across it, games are winnable. Taking out a creature or two with Fiend Hunter, and laying down beats with Huntmasters and Cartel's surprisingly gets there.
I will be pushing this deck at the Type II / Standard portion of the Seattle SCG tomorrow, in all my testing it's just still too dam good for me to ignore.
The sideboard was very meta specific so don't even pay any attention to it.
I didn't run Cavern because there's almost no control in our meta. I didn't want to end up with a turn 2 Grisly Salvage that I couldn't cast because of a CoS and whatever other land I had. It wasn't worth the risk in my aggro dominated meta.
Here's how the night went down.
Round 1 versus Mill
Yeah, mill. The only mill deck in the place and I get it round 1. Easy match, right. I mean he plays right into my strength.
Game 1 - He plays 3 Supreme Verdict and 1 Terminus before I can get my actual win con into the graveyard. I reanimated Angel 4 times with enough creatures to kill him through a flat out assault. 4 straight turns he clears the board then flips miracle Entreat on me for 6 tokens. That was game.
Game 2 - I know he's going to board in RIP so I board in Abrupt. He plays it, I have one in hand, I kill it. Only lose a few cards. No big deal. Finally, I build up my graveyard. I have my win cons in it. All I need to do is draw Angel and hard cast it as I have enough mana. The turn before I draw it, he drops 2nd RIP and that was game. I conceded because with Liliana at 6 and all my win cons removed from game, even casting Angel, I won't get it to stick.
0-2 games, 0-1 matches
Round 2 versus Rakdos
Game 1 - I curve out perfectly and pull the mill combo out easily. He had a couple creatures out that I was able to block. Easy match.
Game 2 - He curves out perfectly with Cackler, Stromkirk, Ash, Hellrider. I never had a chance. I'll touch on this at the end.
Game 3 - Managed to stay in game by casting Fiend Hunters to get rid of his critters and Abrupt Decay to kill the rest. Lots of pressure from Stromkirk and Ash but I survived long enough to pull the mill loop again.
2-1 games, 1-1 matches
Round 3 versus Mono White Humans
Game 1 - He gets the perfect curve with Champion, Townsfolk, Silverblade. Before I even got to take my 4th turn I was at 5 life. Never had a chance.
Game 2 - He starts strong again but I manage to stabilize with Burning-Tree, Huntmaster in one turn. But 2 O-rings and then an Ajani -2 on a rancor'd Champion flies in for 16 with me at 14 and that was game.
0-2 games, 1-2 matches
Round 4 versus Home Brew Undying deck.
Game 1 - Curves out with Experiment One, Strangleroot and then some Rapid Hydrolization thing and before I know it, it's turn 4 and I'm dead. Never got started.
Game 2 - He starts strong again but I manage to stabilize with double Burning Tree, Undercity. Eventually I manage to loop into Malcontent win.
Game 3 - Same as game 1. I was dead before I even had a chance especially being stuck on 3 lands.
1-2 games, 1-3 matches
Okay, here's the deal. This deck has a ***** of a time against fast aggro. There are no two ways about it. They curve out perfectly and you can't win. This deck at best can't dump its win cons and play them until turn 4 and to do that you have to have a god draw. Most games, it's turn 5 or 6 before you can "reasonably" expect to Rites Angel into a win. In this meta, that's too long. Sure, I can reanimate an Angel on turn 3 but what is a 4/6 flier alone going to do against Boros or Naya Blitz or even Rakdos?
In short, the deck is just too slow if you're playing in a meta that's basically
Turn 1 - Champion
Turn 2 - Townsfolk, swing Champion for 3
Turn 3 - Silverblade, swing champion for 8, tokens for 2 more, and you're already down to 7 life looking at lethal on turn 4.
Good luck with that.
Slower decks, sure, you have a decent chance. Faster decks, you better pray they don't draw well because you simply don't have a fast game in this deck.
I probably should have changed my sideboard to go all in aggro. Champion, Silverblade, etc. Maybe I'll try that next time because in my meta this deck is a struggle.
Again, I'm a crappy player (somehow lost to mill) so take this with a grain of salt, but my money says that if you're playing in a meta where they can easily kill you turn 4, this isn't a deck you want to bring unless you play a totally transitional sideboard and go all in aggro games 2 and 3. Then you might have a chance.
I'll try the deck again with that transitional sideboard and see how it goes. But if it does better, what does it actually prove? That this form of reanimator isn't resilient enough on its own, like bringing back Gris that just says "I win" on the spot. AoGR can't do that because it's just a 4/6 flier. It needs other cards to be good and that's the problem. You essentially need 4 cards minimum in the graveyard to pull this off. That's asking a lot in this extremely fast meta.
My 2 cents on the deck that was still a lot of fun to play, win or lose.
That this form of reanimator isn't resilient enough on its own, like bringing back Gris that just says "I win" on the spot.
Sorry about the bad beats last night. While the deck is already pretty weak to aggro, I would guess that your brew is weaker than most-- single huntmaster, only 3x burning trees, no temblor in the board, and Thragtusk in the board often comes down too late.
Also, in most cases you will want to hide an AoGR under a fiend hunter and not try to beat them in with it.
god... there is so many thing i don't like about that list. I don't even know where to start.
let's just start with the SB, why Witchbane Orb.... OMG WHY in the world you would want to use that? Against control? if they mill you, your happy with that!! It's bad to salvage, to mulch, to the whole deck. If people were playing Jund(slaughter games) i don't think i was the best counter. a 4cc card vs a 4cc... if your that desperate to counter those slaughter games play appetite for brains. Why would you need why you put that Angel of Serenity... people will have more Grave Hate game 2 anyways. Thragtusk is understandable, but that makes your deck slower to aggro. Cathedral Sacntifier is almost as good in that spot for W only. Nevermore is not really for your deck. a 3 mana do nothing enchant don't help your game plan and that don't works well in GY You need at least 1 Zealous Conscript to win on the spot vs control if they have themselve a Witchbane Orb. The SB was wierd because oyu built it like your facing alot of control and don't wnat to play cavern because you will face aggro.
Cavern of Souls. I assume its for budget propose that you didn't play any. The "there's almost no control in our meta" , i don't buy it. This card is for Mana Fixing, before trying to block any counterspell. I play 4 Cavern in Humanimator and I played 2 Cavern in Junk reanimator for the same reason. e.g.: turn 4 you have no red... play cavern name human and cast huntmaster to not die! Still a great way to get that second white mana to cast the angel. but it's not for the counterspell. Honestly the manabase look horrible.
Cartel Aristocrat, while its great at doing the combo without BTE, is a nightmare for the manabase. i hope you realize it after yesterday. Even with 4 Cavern of Souls.
The biggest weakness to this deck is the aggro decks, that why Soratachi was devoting 14 slots in his SB in his 5k. BTE is great vs aggro. you want 4 of them. Point. BTE in Mulch, Farseek or another BTE. I played Avacyn's Pilgrim for a while... i was able to play it turn 1 and play Fiend hunter turn 2. that screws a Champion of the Parish let me tell you. also a turn 2 BTE into Faithless Loothing and Avacyn's Pilgrim is a great start even vs aggro.
why do you need so many different win con? Kessig Malcontent Cathedral Sanctifier and Huntmaster and Undercity Informer. Stay focus. Malcontents are bad because they are useless when your not comboing. Huntmaster can stall and make you buy time. Sanctifier the same.
Standard:GWRU 4C Collected Company Modern:GUWRB Bloom Titan Legacy:BUG SHARDLESS BUG
EDH : GR BORBORYGMOS ENRAGED GU PRIME SPEAKER ZEGENA UWR ZEDRUU THE GREATHEARTED UBR MISHRA ARTIFICER PRODIGY B SHEOLDRED WHISPERING ONE R ASHLING THE PILGRIM
god... there is so many thing i don't like about that list. I don't even know where to start.
let's just start with the SB, why Witchbane Orb.... OMG WHY in the world you would want to use that? Against control? if they mill you, your happy with that!! It's bad to salvage, to mulch, to the whole deck. If people were playing Jund(slaughter games) i don't think i was the best counter. a 4cc card vs a 4cc... if your that desperate to counter those slaughter games play appetite for brains. Why would you need why you put that Angel of Serenity... people will have more Grave Hate game 2 anyways. Thragtusk is understandable, but that makes your deck slower to aggro. Cathedral Sacntifier is almost as good in that spot for W only. Nevermore is not really for your deck. a 3 mana do nothing enchant don't help your game plan and that don't works well in GY You need at least 1 Zealous Conscript to win on the spot vs control if they have themselve a Witchbane Orb. The SB was wierd because oyu built it like your facing alot of control and don't wnat to play cavern because you will face aggro.
Cavern of Souls. I assume its for budget propose that you didn't play any. The "there's almost no control in our meta" , i don't buy it. This card is for Mana Fixing, before trying to block any counterspell. I play 4 Cavern in Humanimator and I played 2 Cavern in Junk reanimator for the same reason. e.g.: turn 4 you have no red... play cavern name human and cast huntmaster to not die! Still a great way to get that second white mana to cast the angel. but it's not for the counterspell. Honestly the manabase look horrible.
Cartel Aristocrat, while its great at doing the combo without BTE, is a nightmare for the manabase. i hope you realize it after yesterday. Even with 4 Cavern of Souls.
The biggest weakness to this deck is the aggro decks, that why Soratachi was devoting 14 slots in his SB in his 5k. BTE is great vs aggro. you want 4 of them. Point. BTE in Mulch, Farseek or another BTE. I played Avacyn's Pilgrim for a while... i was able to play it turn 1 and play Fiend hunter turn 2. that screws a Champion of the Parish let me tell you. also a turn 2 BTE into Faithless Loothing and Avacyn's Pilgrim is a great start even vs aggro.
why do you need so many different win con? Kessig Malcontent Cathedral Sanctifier and Huntmaster and Undercity Informer. Stay focus. Malcontents are bad because they are useless when your not comboing. Huntmaster can stall and make you buy time. Sanctifier the same.
All points taken, thanks. Just want to reply to the CoS. I have a playset. They're in my Legacy Goblins deck. I really didn't think I'd need them. I did fine that sometimes I had mana problems. But ultimately, none of them would have made a difference in the final outcome. When you're almost dead on turn 3 and aren't even close to comboing, the mana was the least of my worries.
But yes, I am going to go with a completely sideboard the next time out and I think it will go much better.
I'm hoping this deck continues to fall more under the radar with the release of dragon's maze. While I don't think we gained anything from the new set, we might be better positioned with the new decks that are to come. Time will tell, but I love this deck, it is so much fun.
Went 5/5 at Seattle SCG on Saturday, sold deck afterward, they are reprinting the duals with Dragons Maze, & Huntmaster of the Fells is rotating in 5 months, & there's no west coast SCG's until after rotation, which are the only SCG's I'd consider possibly doing Saturdays on, since I actually know groups here, but I'd be more solo going away from the West Coast.
i doubt people will use sire of insanity for long. 1 week or 2 before we forgot about him... anyways
What i like about the Sin Collector, is that you don't need to run Appetite for Brain or Duress (which are quite bad in a deck that relies on reanimating HUMAN) i prefer to turn 3 to "collect" that slaugther games or sphinx revelation or purify the grave... Its a good up vs midrangish/controlish decks
Zhur-Taa Druid i don't see how a 2 cmc mana dork can help us... i prefer to play BBE into mulch or faithless+pilgrim or farseek (depend of versions)
Private Mod Note
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Kakwann, Lvl 39 Sorcerer
Currently Playing
Standard:GWRU 4C Collected Company Modern:GUWRB Bloom Titan Legacy:BUG SHARDLESS BUG
EDH : GR BORBORYGMOS ENRAGED GU PRIME SPEAKER ZEGENA UWR ZEDRUU THE GREATHEARTED UBR MISHRA ARTIFICER PRODIGY B SHEOLDRED WHISPERING ONE R ASHLING THE PILGRIM
FNM update:
2-1 WBR Control
2-1 Esper Control
2-1 Naya Midrange
0-0 Bant Zegana Draw (but I lost when we played it out)
Not too much to report here, but some highlights:
Match 1, game 3 went long and he double slaughter games'd my angel and rites out of the game.
Match 2, game 3 ended when I held up a golgari charm for his supreme verdict.
Match 3, game 2 I only lost because he miracled entreat the angels for 3. Very unfortunate, that one. I could have possibly won if I didn't just have 2 caverns and very little colored mana sources.
Match 4, games 2 and 3 were pretty bad because I ended up mulching or salvaging away my only outs in the form of decay and golgari charm. So his rest in peace and powerful cards took me out from there. Possibly could have won had I sided more aggressively.
Standard:GWRU 4C Collected Company Modern:GUWRB Bloom Titan Legacy:BUG SHARDLESS BUG
EDH : GR BORBORYGMOS ENRAGED GU PRIME SPEAKER ZEGENA UWR ZEDRUU THE GREATHEARTED UBR MISHRA ARTIFICER PRODIGY B SHEOLDRED WHISPERING ONE R ASHLING THE PILGRIM
Last FNM Update:
2-1 Grixis Control
2-0 Mono G Aggro
2-0 GB Midrange
2-1 RG Goblins
So I went 4-0 and won the FNM.
Match 1 was pretty boring. I got mana screwed game 1 and he got screwed game 2. Game 3 was decent though. I salvaged into an unburial, angel, and fiend hunter early, so I went for the rites. I figured he would have slaughter games in the sideboard and he did, but it came out just a turn too late. It's not easy to deal with an angel covered by a fiend hunter and eventually I overwhelmed him with dudes because I could keep recurring things once I got the cartel aristocrat on the table.
The RG goblins deck had janky interactions like krenko + alpha authority + fervor. Champion of Lambholt to make all your dudes unblockable. Very explosive deck if left unchecked, but fortunately mine was more explosive.
Not too many DGM cards yet other than some putrefy's in the GB deck. I'll be playing modern this fri, but there's a standard event I will try tomorrow.
i really like this archetype, but i fell DGM didn't bring us anything and all other decks got something. I still feel the MD miss one card to go over the edge. Still a really fun deck to play.
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Kakwann, Lvl 39 Sorcerer
Currently Playing
Standard:GWRU 4C Collected Company Modern:GUWRB Bloom Titan Legacy:BUG SHARDLESS BUG
EDH : GR BORBORYGMOS ENRAGED GU PRIME SPEAKER ZEGENA UWR ZEDRUU THE GREATHEARTED UBR MISHRA ARTIFICER PRODIGY B SHEOLDRED WHISPERING ONE R ASHLING THE PILGRIM
I'm most likely falling back onto this deck for States. It's the deck I know how to play best in Standard, and continues to be my favorite. My only concern is the consistency. If any of you remember all the posts I made the last few months, I had some good rounds all day long and would keep losing in top 8's and such due to rotten luck. I grinded it pretty hard for a good 2 months, dropped it in favor of Junk (which is incredibly boring and overrated), and picked it back up to once again inconsistency... one night I went 3-1, then the next night I went 1-3. Against practically the same decks.
My only concern is losing round 1 and then being paired against Red Decks all day, which will be really rough. I've been playing the transformational midrange sideboard for a while... it usually looked like this
Should I cut Healers and go back -1 on Tusks and Resto and focus more on answers to hyper-aggressive Red decks? I already maindeck 4 Abrupt Decay (although I considered switching them out to Rolling Temblor, which seems makes Game 1 easier, although Abrupt Decay can be more versatile).
Short report for now, might expand on it later but it's late...
SCG Trials:
Match 1: 2-1 Jund Midrange (Gyre Sages, Thundermaws, Aristocrats, Thragtusks)
Match 2: 2-0 Bant Auras (Stalker, Unflinching Courage, GOST, Smiter)
Match 3: 2-0 Esper Spirits (Lingering Souls, Favorable Winds, Dungeon Geist, Drogskol Capt)
Match 4: 0-0 Junk Rites (Draw)
Cut to top 8
Match 5: 2-0 Esper Spirits (same as round 3)
Match 6: 2-0 Jund Midrange (Thrag, Olivia, more controllish)
Match 7: 2-0 Bant Auras (same as round 2)
Very few of the above decks played enough hate for this deck. I saw a few ground seals and a witchbane orb, but was fortunate to dodge junk rites decks that played deathrite. Interestingly, the jund midrange decks didn't play slaughter games, opting to run ground seal instead.
edit: Also, I was extremely lucky in that I was able to dodge all the aggro (mostly naya blitz, but there were some other variants) decks in the pool.
Great job, zenzog!
I would love to see what your sideboard is looking like.
Also, is Drown in Filth something we consider in a red/aggro-heavy meta? It digs and can take out a dude. Only 2 mana... The wording on it also allows to kill bigger creatures later in the game too.
Decklist is the same as the one I posted a week ago (scroll up), but I experimented with -2 Undercity Informer, -2 Mulch for +1 Avacyn's Pilgrim +3 Farseek.
Sideboard is untouched.
I don't see any DGM cards making the cut into this deck. Sin collector maybe, but it's probably more of a meta call.
I see a couple cards that I might put into my sideboard though: More Golgari charms, another Conscripts, War Priest of Thune (bant auras is pretty rough), Purify the Grave, Hanweir Watchkeep
So I have been experimenting with a humanimator deck that doesn't have green but instead blue... By using Alchemist's Apprentice, Mad Prophet and Laboratory Maniac you can draw/loot your entire deck and win on the spot quite like the Cephalid Breakfast deck from Legacy. With Mad Prophet you have constant draw power and the ability to dump things in your yard and Alchemist's Apprentice allows you to chump and draw. Blue also allows you to side into some anti hate cards by the way of Dispel (to work against the Purify the Graves, as well as any counter they toss our way), Izzet Charm and Supreme Verdict. We also gain access to the very useful Desperate Ravings and its flash back.
So hear is my list I am currently finalising what I think the side board should be but as it looks right now...
Now with this I have been testing quite alot on MTGO, with basically a 75% match up against control and midrange and a 50% against aggro I have found this deck quite powerful. I will be taking this deck into a daily event in the near future and will update after that. Another card I would like to touch on is Sin Collector. Sin Collector allows you not only to look at their hand but protect your combo very effectively. They have a counter, purify, Slaughter Games or removal you simply pick it out and move on your merry way, very good card if you haven't yet it deserves at least to be tested.
I think that the UWBR version you posted is too cold to common permanent based grave hate such as Ground Seal, Rest in Peace, Tormod's Crypt, etc. and is too reliant on your own graveyard so that when those cards hit it just sort of flounders. Green helps that with Abrupt Decay, but I think you need something in your sideboard to break RIP.
So after looking at my options I have come up to possible ways to deal with the above problem either by running a sideboard Tear (Wear/Tear) or by running the mainboardable Cyclonic Rift. I would more than likely run these in the board slot I have designated to Supreme Verdict as the main thing its meant to combat vastly outpaces it. Will do testing tonight and report back.
P.S. Anymore help with the sideboard would be greatly appreciated.
I think the deck needs a lot of work before it becomes reasonable to play at a tournament. I'm just basing this off of some sample hands and goldfishing, but my observations are as follows:
1) The mana base needs to be looked at. You have 14 black sources, 13 white sources, 8 red, and 5 blue (+2 to each if you use cavern as fixing). 8 of the lands are shocks, which means it's possible that your lands will come into play tapped often. I haven't been mana screwed often, but I think if I were playing against an opponent instead of goldfishing, I would be dead before I had my mana.
2) The deck isn't doing very much to fill up your graveyard in the early turns. Only 6 discard spells before turn 4 and they are only putting in 2 cards at a time, at best. I have yet to combo off before turn 8. The deck feels more likely to win off of a falkenrath aristocrat that they just can't deal with.
3) Several times I have reanimated angel (w/o fiend hunter) and brought back a bunch of mad prophets that couldn't do anything without a card in my hand. This is a problem unless you also happen to reanimate alchemist apprentices. Reanimating angel before the combo is in your yard will happen in games.
4) The deck is weaker to aggro than the traditional list with green. Post board it might be a little stronger since the verdicts help. Here you are basically trading abrupt decay for supreme verdict and I don't think it's a good trade.
If you wanted to make it more consistent on the humanimator side, I would run forbidden alchemy, thought scours, and snapcasters for the self mill. Take out falkenrath aristocrats (or maybe board them), sin collectors, and mad prophets. Add undercity informer.
If you run it in an mtgo daily, could you let us know how it goes?
Clinton Whitehurst, who played Humanimator at SCG Dallas today (Saturday), ended up 18th place out of a field of 440. Not too shabby at all!
He had 22 points at end of Round 10, so it's safe to assume he went 7-2-1.
(He started off really strong going 5-0)
I am hoping that I avoid decks using Slaughter Games alltogether, since the deck's not been on the radar lately, and it's confined to black/red colors, but if it happens and they pull it off, well with any deck, there are scenarios that are bad against an opposing strategy, no matter what I play there's going to be "I hope I don't run into that too much" etc.
Good luck today!
ex-Moderator
Legacy love.
Okay, all kidding aside, I'm not a very good player so take these results with a grain of salt.
Here's my custom brew that might have had something to do with my horrible night.
4x Overgrown Tomb
2x Stomping Ground
2x Blood Crypt
2x Temple Garden
2x Godless Shrine
2x Sunpetal Grove
2x Rootbound Crag
2x Isolated Chapel
2x Woodland Cemetary
2x Dragonskull Summit
Creatures
4x Angel of Glory's Rise
3x Undercity Informer
3x Cartel Aristocrat
4x Fiend Hunter
3x Burning-Tree Emissary
1x Kessig Malcontents
1x Cathedral Sanctifier
1x Huntmaster of the Fells
4x Unburial Rites
4x Mulch
4x Grisly Salvage
3x Faithless Looting
3x Farseek
4x Witchbane Orb
4x Thragtusk
4x Abrupt Decay
2x Nevermore
1x Angel of Serenity
The sideboard was very meta specific so don't even pay any attention to it.
I didn't run Cavern because there's almost no control in our meta. I didn't want to end up with a turn 2 Grisly Salvage that I couldn't cast because of a CoS and whatever other land I had. It wasn't worth the risk in my aggro dominated meta.
Here's how the night went down.
Round 1 versus Mill
Yeah, mill. The only mill deck in the place and I get it round 1. Easy match, right. I mean he plays right into my strength.
Game 1 - He plays 3 Supreme Verdict and 1 Terminus before I can get my actual win con into the graveyard. I reanimated Angel 4 times with enough creatures to kill him through a flat out assault. 4 straight turns he clears the board then flips miracle Entreat on me for 6 tokens. That was game.
Game 2 - I know he's going to board in RIP so I board in Abrupt. He plays it, I have one in hand, I kill it. Only lose a few cards. No big deal. Finally, I build up my graveyard. I have my win cons in it. All I need to do is draw Angel and hard cast it as I have enough mana. The turn before I draw it, he drops 2nd RIP and that was game. I conceded because with Liliana at 6 and all my win cons removed from game, even casting Angel, I won't get it to stick.
0-2 games, 0-1 matches
Round 2 versus Rakdos
Game 1 - I curve out perfectly and pull the mill combo out easily. He had a couple creatures out that I was able to block. Easy match.
Game 2 - He curves out perfectly with Cackler, Stromkirk, Ash, Hellrider. I never had a chance. I'll touch on this at the end.
Game 3 - Managed to stay in game by casting Fiend Hunters to get rid of his critters and Abrupt Decay to kill the rest. Lots of pressure from Stromkirk and Ash but I survived long enough to pull the mill loop again.
2-1 games, 1-1 matches
Round 3 versus Mono White Humans
Game 1 - He gets the perfect curve with Champion, Townsfolk, Silverblade. Before I even got to take my 4th turn I was at 5 life. Never had a chance.
Game 2 - He starts strong again but I manage to stabilize with Burning-Tree, Huntmaster in one turn. But 2 O-rings and then an Ajani -2 on a rancor'd Champion flies in for 16 with me at 14 and that was game.
0-2 games, 1-2 matches
Round 4 versus Home Brew Undying deck.
Game 1 - Curves out with Experiment One, Strangleroot and then some Rapid Hydrolization thing and before I know it, it's turn 4 and I'm dead. Never got started.
Game 2 - He starts strong again but I manage to stabilize with double Burning Tree, Undercity. Eventually I manage to loop into Malcontent win.
Game 3 - Same as game 1. I was dead before I even had a chance especially being stuck on 3 lands.
1-2 games, 1-3 matches
Okay, here's the deal. This deck has a ***** of a time against fast aggro. There are no two ways about it. They curve out perfectly and you can't win. This deck at best can't dump its win cons and play them until turn 4 and to do that you have to have a god draw. Most games, it's turn 5 or 6 before you can "reasonably" expect to Rites Angel into a win. In this meta, that's too long. Sure, I can reanimate an Angel on turn 3 but what is a 4/6 flier alone going to do against Boros or Naya Blitz or even Rakdos?
In short, the deck is just too slow if you're playing in a meta that's basically
Turn 1 - Champion
Turn 2 - Townsfolk, swing Champion for 3
Turn 3 - Silverblade, swing champion for 8, tokens for 2 more, and you're already down to 7 life looking at lethal on turn 4.
Good luck with that.
Slower decks, sure, you have a decent chance. Faster decks, you better pray they don't draw well because you simply don't have a fast game in this deck.
I probably should have changed my sideboard to go all in aggro. Champion, Silverblade, etc. Maybe I'll try that next time because in my meta this deck is a struggle.
Again, I'm a crappy player (somehow lost to mill) so take this with a grain of salt, but my money says that if you're playing in a meta where they can easily kill you turn 4, this isn't a deck you want to bring unless you play a totally transitional sideboard and go all in aggro games 2 and 3. Then you might have a chance.
I'll try the deck again with that transitional sideboard and see how it goes. But if it does better, what does it actually prove? That this form of reanimator isn't resilient enough on its own, like bringing back Gris that just says "I win" on the spot. AoGR can't do that because it's just a 4/6 flier. It needs other cards to be good and that's the problem. You essentially need 4 cards minimum in the graveyard to pull this off. That's asking a lot in this extremely fast meta.
My 2 cents on the deck that was still a lot of fun to play, win or lose.
Sorry about the bad beats last night. While the deck is already pretty weak to aggro, I would guess that your brew is weaker than most-- single huntmaster, only 3x burning trees, no temblor in the board, and Thragtusk in the board often comes down too late.
Also, in most cases you will want to hide an AoGR under a fiend hunter and not try to beat them in with it.
let's just start with the SB, why Witchbane Orb.... OMG WHY in the world you would want to use that? Against control? if they mill you, your happy with that!! It's bad to salvage, to mulch, to the whole deck. If people were playing Jund(slaughter games) i don't think i was the best counter. a 4cc card vs a 4cc... if your that desperate to counter those slaughter games play appetite for brains. Why would you need why you put that Angel of Serenity... people will have more Grave Hate game 2 anyways. Thragtusk is understandable, but that makes your deck slower to aggro. Cathedral Sacntifier is almost as good in that spot for W only. Nevermore is not really for your deck. a 3 mana do nothing enchant don't help your game plan and that don't works well in GY You need at least 1 Zealous Conscript to win on the spot vs control if they have themselve a Witchbane Orb. The SB was wierd because oyu built it like your facing alot of control and don't wnat to play cavern because you will face aggro.
Cavern of Souls. I assume its for budget propose that you didn't play any. The "there's almost no control in our meta" , i don't buy it. This card is for Mana Fixing, before trying to block any counterspell. I play 4 Cavern in Humanimator and I played 2 Cavern in Junk reanimator for the same reason. e.g.: turn 4 you have no red... play cavern name human and cast huntmaster to not die! Still a great way to get that second white mana to cast the angel. but it's not for the counterspell. Honestly the manabase look horrible.
Cartel Aristocrat, while its great at doing the combo without BTE, is a nightmare for the manabase. i hope you realize it after yesterday. Even with 4 Cavern of Souls.
The biggest weakness to this deck is the aggro decks, that why Soratachi was devoting 14 slots in his SB in his 5k. BTE is great vs aggro. you want 4 of them. Point. BTE in Mulch, Farseek or another BTE. I played Avacyn's Pilgrim for a while... i was able to play it turn 1 and play Fiend hunter turn 2. that screws a Champion of the Parish let me tell you. also a turn 2 BTE into Faithless Loothing and Avacyn's Pilgrim is a great start even vs aggro.
why do you need so many different win con? Kessig Malcontent Cathedral Sanctifier and Huntmaster and Undercity Informer. Stay focus. Malcontents are bad because they are useless when your not comboing. Huntmaster can stall and make you buy time. Sanctifier the same.
Like i said earlier this week i would try more proven list before making my own brew. Read this : http://www.channelfireball.com/home/getting-nassty-humanimator/
it's getting old but it's still worth reading.
Standard: GWRU 4C Collected Company
Modern: GUWRB Bloom Titan
Legacy: BUG SHARDLESS BUG
EDH :
GR BORBORYGMOS ENRAGED
GU PRIME SPEAKER ZEGENA
UWR ZEDRUU THE GREATHEARTED
UBR MISHRA ARTIFICER PRODIGY
B SHEOLDRED WHISPERING ONE
R ASHLING THE PILGRIM
All points taken, thanks. Just want to reply to the CoS. I have a playset. They're in my Legacy Goblins deck. I really didn't think I'd need them. I did fine that sometimes I had mana problems. But ultimately, none of them would have made a difference in the final outcome. When you're almost dead on turn 3 and aren't even close to comboing, the mana was the least of my worries.
But yes, I am going to go with a completely sideboard the next time out and I think it will go much better.
You guys know that duals in DGM are going to be ~twice as rare as they were in RTR or GTC right?
Anyway, sorry about the result. Could you recap some of your matches?
Any thoughts on Zhur-Taa Druid?
What i like about the Sin Collector, is that you don't need to run Appetite for Brain or Duress (which are quite bad in a deck that relies on reanimating HUMAN) i prefer to turn 3 to "collect" that slaugther games or sphinx revelation or purify the grave... Its a good up vs midrangish/controlish decks
Zhur-Taa Druid i don't see how a 2 cmc mana dork can help us... i prefer to play BBE into mulch or faithless+pilgrim or farseek (depend of versions)
Standard: GWRU 4C Collected Company
Modern: GUWRB Bloom Titan
Legacy: BUG SHARDLESS BUG
EDH :
GR BORBORYGMOS ENRAGED
GU PRIME SPEAKER ZEGENA
UWR ZEDRUU THE GREATHEARTED
UBR MISHRA ARTIFICER PRODIGY
B SHEOLDRED WHISPERING ONE
R ASHLING THE PILGRIM
2-1 WBR Control
2-1 Esper Control
2-1 Naya Midrange
0-0 Bant Zegana Draw (but I lost when we played it out)
Not too much to report here, but some highlights:
Match 1, game 3 went long and he double slaughter games'd my angel and rites out of the game.
Match 2, game 3 ended when I held up a golgari charm for his supreme verdict.
Match 3, game 2 I only lost because he miracled entreat the angels for 3. Very unfortunate, that one. I could have possibly won if I didn't just have 2 caverns and very little colored mana sources.
Match 4, games 2 and 3 were pretty bad because I ended up mulching or salvaging away my only outs in the form of decay and golgari charm. So his rest in peace and powerful cards took me out from there. Possibly could have won had I sided more aggressively.
Standard: GWRU 4C Collected Company
Modern: GUWRB Bloom Titan
Legacy: BUG SHARDLESS BUG
EDH :
GR BORBORYGMOS ENRAGED
GU PRIME SPEAKER ZEGENA
UWR ZEDRUU THE GREATHEARTED
UBR MISHRA ARTIFICER PRODIGY
B SHEOLDRED WHISPERING ONE
R ASHLING THE PILGRIM
4 Angel of Glory's Rise
4 Undercity Informer
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Fiend Hunter
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Cartel Aristocrat
Instants:
4 Grisly Salvage
Sorceries:
4 Mulch
4 Faithless Looting
4 Unburial Rites
2 Blood Crypt
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
2 Dragonskull Summit
2 Temple Garden
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Sunpetal Grove
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Isolated Chapel
3 Stomping Grounds
1 Clifftop Retreat
3 Restoration Angel
1 Golgari Charm
2 Rolling Temblor
1 Burning Oil
3 Loxodon Smiter
1 Zealous Conscripts
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Kessig Wolf Run
Last FNM Update:
2-1 Grixis Control
2-0 Mono G Aggro
2-0 GB Midrange
2-1 RG Goblins
So I went 4-0 and won the FNM.
Match 1 was pretty boring. I got mana screwed game 1 and he got screwed game 2. Game 3 was decent though. I salvaged into an unburial, angel, and fiend hunter early, so I went for the rites. I figured he would have slaughter games in the sideboard and he did, but it came out just a turn too late. It's not easy to deal with an angel covered by a fiend hunter and eventually I overwhelmed him with dudes because I could keep recurring things once I got the cartel aristocrat on the table.
The RG goblins deck had janky interactions like krenko + alpha authority + fervor. Champion of Lambholt to make all your dudes unblockable. Very explosive deck if left unchecked, but fortunately mine was more explosive.
Not too many DGM cards yet other than some putrefy's in the GB deck. I'll be playing modern this fri, but there's a standard event I will try tomorrow.
Standard: GWRU 4C Collected Company
Modern: GUWRB Bloom Titan
Legacy: BUG SHARDLESS BUG
EDH :
GR BORBORYGMOS ENRAGED
GU PRIME SPEAKER ZEGENA
UWR ZEDRUU THE GREATHEARTED
UBR MISHRA ARTIFICER PRODIGY
B SHEOLDRED WHISPERING ONE
R ASHLING THE PILGRIM
My only concern is losing round 1 and then being paired against Red Decks all day, which will be really rough. I've been playing the transformational midrange sideboard for a while... it usually looked like this
4 Thragtusk
3 Restoration Angel
1 Angel of Serenity
3 Rolling Temblor
Should I cut Healers and go back -1 on Tusks and Resto and focus more on answers to hyper-aggressive Red decks? I already maindeck 4 Abrupt Decay (although I considered switching them out to Rolling Temblor, which seems makes Game 1 easier, although Abrupt Decay can be more versatile).
ex-Moderator
Legacy love.
SCG Trials:
Match 1: 2-1 Jund Midrange (Gyre Sages, Thundermaws, Aristocrats, Thragtusks)
Match 2: 2-0 Bant Auras (Stalker, Unflinching Courage, GOST, Smiter)
Match 3: 2-0 Esper Spirits (Lingering Souls, Favorable Winds, Dungeon Geist, Drogskol Capt)
Match 4: 0-0 Junk Rites (Draw)
Cut to top 8
Match 5: 2-0 Esper Spirits (same as round 3)
Match 6: 2-0 Jund Midrange (Thrag, Olivia, more controllish)
Match 7: 2-0 Bant Auras (same as round 2)
Very few of the above decks played enough hate for this deck. I saw a few ground seals and a witchbane orb, but was fortunate to dodge junk rites decks that played deathrite. Interestingly, the jund midrange decks didn't play slaughter games, opting to run ground seal instead.
edit: Also, I was extremely lucky in that I was able to dodge all the aggro (mostly naya blitz, but there were some other variants) decks in the pool.
I would love to see what your sideboard is looking like.
Also, is Drown in Filth something we consider in a red/aggro-heavy meta? It digs and can take out a dude. Only 2 mana... The wording on it also allows to kill bigger creatures later in the game too.
ex-Moderator
Legacy love.
Sideboard is untouched.
I don't see any DGM cards making the cut into this deck. Sin collector maybe, but it's probably more of a meta call.
I see a couple cards that I might put into my sideboard though: More Golgari charms, another Conscripts, War Priest of Thune (bant auras is pretty rough), Purify the Grave, Hanweir Watchkeep
So hear is my list I am currently finalising what I think the side board should be but as it looks right now...
2 Blood Crypt
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Clifftop Retreat
2 Dragonskull Summit
3 Drowned Catacomb
2 Glacial Fortress
3 Isolated Chapel
4 Godless Shrine
2 Sacred Foundry
Creatures (25)
3 Alchemist's Apprentice
3 Angel of Glory's Rise
4 Cartel Aristocrat
3 Falkenrath Aristocrat
4 Fiend Hunter
1 Laboratory Maniac
3 Mad Prophet
4 Sin Collector
3 Liliana of the Veil
Instants (2)
2 Desperate Ravings
Sorcerys (8)
4 Faithless Looting
4 Unburial Rites
3 Rolling Temblor
3 Dispel
2 Izzet charm
1 Kessig Malcontents
3 Supreme Verdict
3 Pillar of Flame
Now with this I have been testing quite alot on MTGO, with basically a 75% match up against control and midrange and a 50% against aggro I have found this deck quite powerful. I will be taking this deck into a daily event in the near future and will update after that. Another card I would like to touch on is Sin Collector. Sin Collector allows you not only to look at their hand but protect your combo very effectively. They have a counter, purify, Slaughter Games or removal you simply pick it out and move on your merry way, very good card if you haven't yet it deserves at least to be tested.
P.S. Will be working on the mana needs more red.
P.S. Anymore help with the sideboard would be greatly appreciated.
1) The mana base needs to be looked at. You have 14 black sources, 13 white sources, 8 red, and 5 blue (+2 to each if you use cavern as fixing). 8 of the lands are shocks, which means it's possible that your lands will come into play tapped often. I haven't been mana screwed often, but I think if I were playing against an opponent instead of goldfishing, I would be dead before I had my mana.
2) The deck isn't doing very much to fill up your graveyard in the early turns. Only 6 discard spells before turn 4 and they are only putting in 2 cards at a time, at best. I have yet to combo off before turn 8. The deck feels more likely to win off of a falkenrath aristocrat that they just can't deal with.
3) Several times I have reanimated angel (w/o fiend hunter) and brought back a bunch of mad prophets that couldn't do anything without a card in my hand. This is a problem unless you also happen to reanimate alchemist apprentices. Reanimating angel before the combo is in your yard will happen in games.
4) The deck is weaker to aggro than the traditional list with green. Post board it might be a little stronger since the verdicts help. Here you are basically trading abrupt decay for supreme verdict and I don't think it's a good trade.
If you wanted to make it more consistent on the humanimator side, I would run forbidden alchemy, thought scours, and snapcasters for the self mill. Take out falkenrath aristocrats (or maybe board them), sin collectors, and mad prophets. Add undercity informer.
If you run it in an mtgo daily, could you let us know how it goes?
He had 22 points at end of Round 10, so it's safe to assume he went 7-2-1.
(He started off really strong going 5-0)
The dream is still alive!
ex-Moderator
Legacy love.