I've been toying with Dega for some time and have been tooling and retooling over and over. I originally thought a more black based list would be best with Liliana of the Dark Realms to smooth draws and mana, but I found that the strongest parts of this color combo come in the red and white. Reckoner is a house both on the offensive and the defensive and I found the interactions between Olivia and Reckoner, as well as Temblor and Reckoner, to be quite worthy of the inclusion. The blasphemous act is to bring fire down, and can also be a late game finisher if need be with Reckoner.
Merciless Eviction plays better than it seems on paper, and it was a tough cut to sideboard. The versatility allows for a great plays. Six mana is hefty, but I found with the proper application of removal getting to six isn't as difficult as it was in previous versions of the list.
The minor reanimate package was in response to needing a filter spell to dig and gain card quality. It isn't to be relied on, but can also provide extra value out of a fatty or even just bringing back a reckoner.
I'll be taking Dega to the Daytona SCG Classic; look me up if you're heading that way. This is what my list is going to look like:
dude you gotta cut those vexing devils. they serve virtually no purpose because your deck isnt geared to be HYPER AGGRO. and even in a hyper aggressive shell, i dont even know if they would end up being good enough. this is because you dont have the aggro to support the early 4 damage, and past aggro they just give your opponent an option to either take the 4 that they can afford, or deal with the creature, whichever works best for them. in a controlling shell, this card is the literal OPPOSITE of what you want.
cathedral sanc can probably be replaced with something else that is a lot better in the late game. even early game its really not going to be that impressive. i dont think its worth a slot in the 75. theres just so many better cards you could be running.
what is the sundering growth for in your sideboard? is there a particular artifact / enchantment you are concerned about? the synergy between growth and lingering souls is cute, but is it powerful enough to warrant its inclusion? what about one of the enchantment-hate bears that are standard legal? im pretty sure theres a 1W 2/2 that kills an enchantment when it comes in, and one that you can sac as well. either of those will hit problematic enchantments and provide a body (clock) that your likely control opponent will have to deal with.
i think surely there is something better than treasury thrull. i also think trading post might be more cute than good. its pretty slow and will only really win you card advantage in a control matchup if you get all the pieces together, and even then it does it at such a slow pace it probably wont matter. you'll just spend too much time durdling around with post, and not enough time actually pressuring them, or out-controlling them.
im not sure i would run faithless looting for your deck. while it does have synergy with a few cards in your deck, particularly the big creatures and the unburial rites + lingering souls, it nets you card disadvantage, and if you arent drawing your unburial rites its just going to set you back with the plus of sifting thru your deck a little bit.
maybe you could do something like:
-4 faithless looting
-2 unburial rites
-1 gizela
-1 griselbrand
-1 victim of night (to vary your removal)
also, liliana of the veil has been very good for me. have you tried her in the control matchup? shes so crucial there, forcing them to try to kill her by tapping out on their turn, where you can follow up with more lilianas, or other huge spells like rakdos's return, or nice beaters.
I've been toying with Dega for some time and have been tooling and retooling over and over. I originally thought a more black based list would be best with Liliana of the Dark Realms to smooth draws and mana, but I found that the strongest parts of this color combo come in the red and white. Reckoner is a house both on the offensive and the defensive and I found the interactions between Olivia and Reckoner, as well as Temblor and Reckoner, to be quite worthy of the inclusion. The blasphemous act is to bring fire down, and can also be a late game finisher if need be with Reckoner.
Merciless Eviction plays better than it seems on paper, and it was a tough cut to sideboard. The versatility allows for a great plays. Six mana is hefty, but I found with the proper application of removal getting to six isn't as difficult as it was in previous versions of the list.
The minor reanimate package was in response to needing a filter spell to dig and gain card quality. It isn't to be relied on, but can also provide extra value out of a fatty or even just bringing back a reckoner.
I'll be taking Dega to the Daytona SCG Classic; look me up if you're heading that way. This is what my list is going to look like:
I've tested this list against the mono-red, naya and bant midrange decks, it wrecks control, I think this list is pretty solid. You might ask why the guildgates? Wont it be slow against mono red. As you can see, there are no 1 mana spells that are highly important to cast, and the fact that there are only 8 of them means if you keep a proper hand, they won't be a nuisance. And yes, it's worth using this land base to support the 2 most impactful cards in standard.
I created this list from taking what the Jund Midrange in top 8 used, and let me tell you, turn 5 Obzedat, Ghost Council into turn 6 Thundermaw Hellkite is 14 points of damage if it goes unblock, not saying you should do that at every board state, but its nice to know you can.
I've tested this list against the mono-red, naya and bant midrange decks, it wrecks control, I think this list is pretty solid. You might ask why the guildgates? Wont it be slow against mono red. As you can see, there are no 1 mana spells that are highly important to cast, and the fact that there are only 8 of them means if you keep a proper hand, they won't be a nuisance. And yes, it's worth using this land base to support the 2 most impactful cards in standard.
I created this list from taking what the Jund Midrange in top 8 used, and let me tell you, turn 5 Obzedat, Ghost Council into turn 6 Thundermaw Hellkite is 14 points of damage if it goes unblock, not saying you should do that at every board state, but its nice to know you can.
the only problem i see with all the guildgates is that they inherently do slow your deck down, and make all of your shock lands much more likely to deal damage to you.
in your example, you have a turn 5 obzedat into turn 6 thundermaw. but if you are drawing your guildgates they can set you back to further turns with this play.
reckoner and messenger are both great cards, but i think they are too mana intensive to warrant playing both in the same list as 4 ofs. how about 4 reckoner and 2 messenger? then you could cut back on your guildgates a bit.
you also have to consider the impact of your guildgates on the early turns because your come into play tapped lands (or take 2 damage lands) will really really hurt you when you are trying to fend against a hyper aggressive start.
you have 10 2 drops but 0 1 drops. so if you are on the draw, and you draw 2 guildgates, do you auto-mulligan every time? that cant be good for consistency's sake. i dont think you can afford to do nothing for the first 2 turns of the game, so you basically have to mulligan any hands containing only guildgates for lands.
i guess a way to get around this inherent problem would be to just use more 1 drops so on your second turn, when you have to play a second guildgate, you can still play a 1 drop and kill something thats beating your face in before its too late.
@ tronist: Thanks for the crits. The deck as it was wasn't as competetive as it is now. The devils were a biased choice as they were faring well in my meta since about 80% of it is red based aggro or naya. I am still sticking with the Sanctifiers in the side since I'd ensure lifegain for one instead of threatening it with Nighthawk. But trust me if I ran huntmasters or thragtusks to support it, the choice would be unanimously with the hawks. Also took your advice on the 2 drop enchantment bear and settled on a midrangy token shell.
@ tronist: Thanks for the crits. The deck as it was wasn't as competetive as it is now. The devils were a biased choice as they were faring well in my meta since about 80% of it is red based aggro or naya. I am still sticking with the Sanctifiers in the side since I'd ensure lifegain for one instead of threatening it with Nighthawk. But trust me if I ran huntmasters or thragtusks to support it, the choice would be unanimously with the hawks. Also took your advice on the 2 drop enchantment bear and settled on a midrangy token shell.
have you considered using mainboard tragic slip? i think that card should be good right now, especially with how huge boros reckoner is nowadays
also, i think nighthawk is still better than sanctifier anyways.
think of it this way:
the thing that they'll use to kill nighthawk is likely searing spear. if they aim him, they arent using that 3 damage to your dome. if they dont aim him, his deathtouch and flying will likely either kill something important and gain you 2, or constantly gain you 2 per turn. i think hes a much better investment for your slots than sanc is.
thats also a cool synergy with your underworld connections and miracles
I brought my updated list to FNM and went 4 - 0 - 1, winning against Naya Midrange (+ Reckoner combo), Bant Delver, G/B Zombies and G/B aggro, drawing with 5c Flayer-Rites (due to time). I feel that the deck is very strong against most midrange and slower aggro builds, ahile having problems in G1 against blue-based control and fast red-based aggro with lots of burn, so I tried focusing my board on those match-ups.
That was my list, for next week I'll try to cram one Liliana of the Veil in the MB and another one in the side as she's amazing against control and solid to good in other match-ups and synergises with my 4 copies of Lingering Souls and a rather generous land count.
How do you deal with cards like Rakdos Return and opposing Slaughter Games?
A very good card against other RB decks
I'm currently playing / working on Midrange Deck using these colours.
Trying to get a hand on some more liliana of the veil. Gonna be making a primer soon for it.
Like I said, I ran Dega at the Daytona Classic this weekend, though the 75 I posted was tweaked due to the room scouting on the day of the tournament. I feel that the changes I made to the board and swapping out the Stensia for a Stronghold were probably the better options, though I believe the Slayers' Stronghold could have been another Vault of the Archangel. I felt the deck ran well against all my opponents. I ended at 3-4 Drop in round seven. I was alive to top 32 through 6 rounds according to standings and breakers.
Round 1: Bant Hexproof Game 1: I lost the roll and started on the draw. He played a turn three Geist of Saint Traft, which I Rolling Temblor'd away, but I stalled on lands at 4 with a Terminus in hand. Loss. Game 2: On the play I play cat and mouse with another turn 3 Geist, unsummon vs. Tribute to Hunger, Temblor, Tribute in that order. Turn 7 he pacified my Boros Reckoner. I dropped a hardcast Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, which he also pacified. Dropped a Geist, suited it up, and passed. I top-decked and Olivia Voldaren, played it and passed with 4 open mana. He played more enchantments on the Geist and swung, leaving no white mana open, I pinged the Angel token twice to kill it (go Gisela) and took half damage from the Geist not scared of Boros Charm. On the back swing, I swung in with Olivia and pinged the Reckoner twice, redirecting 4 and hitting for 10 for game. Game 3:On the draw, I fell victim to a turn 5 10/6 trampling Strangelroot Geist. Tributing it once on turn 3 and without another removal spell to deal with it, I fell. Loss. 0-1
Round 2: America Midrange Game 1: I won the roll and was on the play, dropping a turn 3 Reckoner, effectively freezing his board. I banged him down to 8 with the Reckoner, and cast Blasphemous Act, his sphinx's to draw into a counter did not yield a response. Game 2: Turn 3 on the play Reckoner was dealt with as a 2 for 1 with a Searing Spear, taking out an Augur of Bolas. I got him to 13, passed. He tapped out for a Thundermaw Hellkite, taking me to 5, passed. I cast act for game. 1-1
Round 3: America Midrange Game 1: No temblors or sweeps to take out his turn 3 Geist. Hit me down to 8 with it and unloaded spears and Boros Charms into me. Game 2: Turn three Reckoner on the play, my opponent land flooded and fell victim to another Blasphemous Act. Game 3: Major Nail-Biter. I'm against the ropes the entire game, dealing with a Geist and an opposing Reckoner. At 7 life and my opponent at 16, reckoner on board and act in hand, I top deck a Victim of Night, cast the act, hold priority, victim the reckoner, wiping the board and dropping him to 3. He casts a Reckoner on the following turn, which I drop an Olivia. He swings, no blocks, I go to 4. I swing back with Olivia. He flashes in a Restoration Angel, which I ping, then steal in response to the blink trigger for game. 2-1
Round 4: Experiment Jund Game 1: He all but god handed me, curb stomping me with a combination of Hellrider and Flinthoof Boar. I never stood a chance. Game 2: Post board, I felt much better, almost getting him, but he top decked a late game Hellrider to seal it. 2-2
*Note:* This was against my friend who rode with me to the tournament from Dothan, AL, and was part of the group who developed the Experiment Jund list you probably saw a bit of coverage about from the PT.
Round 5: Naya Beats Game 1: I drew no sweeper and was unceremoniously showed the door but a wave of dudes. Game 2: I worked a few Temblors and an Olivia into victory. A grindy match, I cast and flashed back Temblor 3 times. Game 3: Turn 2 Thalia on the play sealed my fate. By the time I got rid of her I didn't have the board state to recover. 2-3
Round 6: Naya Beats Game 1: Continued my trend of getting hammered in game ones. Lost by a large margin to a lot of bears on the board. Saw no sweepers and the spot removal I did see couldn't target his Mayor of Avabruck or Huntmaster of the Fells. Game 2: Landed a turn 3 Reckoner into a Turn 4 Olivia. I know playing the Olivia was a mistake on the hindsight, but I needed board presence at the time. When he got stonewalled by 2 for 1's, I cleared the board with Olivia and swung in. Game 3: Reanimated Gisela on turn 4, Reckoner turn 5, one shotted with Blasphemous Act Turn 6. 3-3
Round 7: Jund Midrange Game 1: Game one was difficult as he gained quite a bit of life and had answers for my threats. Lost on the attrition. Game 2: With my extensive faithless looting and no unburial rites in game one, my opponent admitted putting me on reanimator and boarded incorrectly. I controlled the board until resolving a Gisela and a Reckoner in subsequent turns, swinging overhead for game. Game 3: As much of a back and forth game as we could've gotten, he Rakdos's Return'd me, nuking my whole hand with both of us with an empty board. I top-deck'd the Rakdos's Return, nuking his hand, putting us both in top-deck mode on turn 6. He drew better, though I drew almost every sweeper in my deck. Eventually, at 5 life, he resolved a Huntmaster, and I drew a land. 3-4 DROP.
I felt that with some tuning, the deck can perform quite well. Some things I noticed:
1. Tribute to Hunger was an all-star. I boarded it in for 6 rounds. I should move it to the main. I prefer it over devour flesh.
2. Merciless Eviction had a very strong showing against midrange but was far to slow against Aggro.
3. Sorin, Lord of Innistrad was discarded to faithless more than he was played. I'll be removing him.
4. Victim of Night was only a liability in one game, and it was a non-issue in the end. Great removal, keeping as a 3 of.
5. Olivia Voldaren will get you home. She is a cornerstone of the deck and is an auto-include.
6. Obzedat, Ghost Council and Griselbrand were never something I was looking for. I'll probably be removing them. Both are strong, but I feel that in my list their application is limited.
7. Rolling Temblor is quite underrated. Most people had to read it when I cast it, but it was effective in all my matchups except Experiment Jund and Jund Midrange. Turn 3 response to Geist is something to consider.
8. There was never a time that Faithless Looting was an issue for me. Dumping fatties early led my opponents to interact with my graveyard a little bit, and many of them boarded in graveyard hate which wasn't very effective in the long run. The card let me see much more of the deck, and the card quality in most cases overcame the card disadvantage. I'm leaving it at 4.
9. Blasphemous Act was effective with or without Boros Reckoner. I found it to be a delightful sweeper, and regularly able to cast on turn 4 following an aggro build up and a lingering souls cast.
10. Mizzium Mortars underperformed. I rarely wanted it over another option, and I never once needed to or would've benefitted from its overload. As a sweeper, Merciless Eviction is easier to cast and more versatile, as targeted removal I want more instant speed plays.
Hope this helps. I love the color combination and will probably continue to tool and tinker with it. If you have any questions or suggestions, let me know.
Like I said, I ran Dega at the Daytona Classic this weekend, though the 75 I posted was tweaked due to the room scouting on the day of the tournament. I feel that the changes I made to the board and swapping out the Stensia for a Stronghold were probably the better options, though I believe the Slayers' Stronghold could have been another Vault of the Archangel. I felt the deck ran well against all my opponents. I ended at 3-4 Drop in round seven. I was alive to top 32 through 6 rounds according to standings and breakers.
Round 1: Bant Hexproof Game 1: I lost the roll and started on the draw. He played a turn three Geist of Saint Traft, which I Rolling Temblor'd away, but I stalled on lands at 4 with a Terminus in hand. Loss. Game 2: On the play I play cat and mouse with another turn 3 Geist, unsummon vs. Tribute to Hunger, Temblor, Tribute in that order. Turn 7 he pacified my Boros Reckoner. I dropped a hardcast Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, which he also pacified. Dropped a Geist, suited it up, and passed. I top-decked and Olivia Voldaren, played it and passed with 4 open mana. He played more enchantments on the Geist and swung, leaving no white mana open, I pinged the Angel token twice to kill it (go Gisela) and took half damage from the Geist not scared of Boros Charm. On the back swing, I swung in with Olivia and pinged the Reckoner twice, redirecting 4 and hitting for 10 for game. Game 3:On the draw, I fell victim to a turn 5 10/6 trampling Strangelroot Geist. Tributing it once on turn 3 and without another removal spell to deal with it, I fell. Loss. 0-1
Round 2: America Midrange Game 1: I won the roll and was on the play, dropping a turn 3 Reckoner, effectively freezing his board. I banged him down to 8 with the Reckoner, and cast Blasphemous Act, his sphinx's to draw into a counter did not yield a response. Game 2: Turn 3 on the play Reckoner was dealt with as a 2 for 1 with a Searing Spear, taking out an Augur of Bolas. I got him to 13, passed. He tapped out for a Thundermaw Hellkite, taking me to 5, passed. I cast act for game. 1-1
Round 3: America Midrange Game 1: No temblors or sweeps to take out his turn 3 Geist. Hit me down to 8 with it and unloaded spears and Boros Charms into me. Game 2: Turn three Reckoner on the play, my opponent land flooded and fell victim to another Blasphemous Act. Game 3: Major Nail-Biter. I'm against the ropes the entire game, dealing with a Geist and an opposing Reckoner. At 7 life and my opponent at 16, reckoner on board and act in hand, I top deck a Victim of Night, cast the act, hold priority, victim the reckoner, wiping the board and dropping him to 3. He casts a Reckoner on the following turn, which I drop an Olivia. He swings, no blocks, I go to 4. I swing back with Olivia. He flashes in a Restoration Angel, which I ping, then steal in response to the blink trigger for game. 2-1
Round 4: Experiment Jund Game 1: He all but god handed me, curb stomping me with a combination of Hellrider and Flinthoof Boar. I never stood a chance. Game 2: Post board, I felt much better, almost getting him, but he top decked a late game Hellrider to seal it. 2-2
*Note:* This was against my friend who rode with me to the tournament from Dothan, AL, and was part of the group who developed the Experiment Jund list you probably saw a bit of coverage about from the PT.
Round 5: Naya Beats Game 1: I drew no sweeper and was unceremoniously showed the door but a wave of dudes. Game 2: I worked a few Temblors and an Olivia into victory. A grindy match, I cast and flashed back Temblor 3 times. Game 3: Turn 2 Thalia on the play sealed my fate. By the time I got rid of her I didn't have the board state to recover. 2-3
Round 6: Naya Beats Game 1: Continued my trend of getting hammered in game ones. Lost by a large margin to a lot of bears on the board. Saw no sweepers and the spot removal I did see couldn't target his Mayor of Avabruck or Huntmaster of the Fells. Game 2: Landed a turn 3 Reckoner into a Turn 4 Olivia. I know playing the Olivia was a mistake on the hindsight, but I needed board presence at the time. When he got stonewalled by 2 for 1's, I cleared the board with Olivia and swung in. Game 3: Reanimated Gisela on turn 4, Reckoner turn 5, one shotted with Blasphemous Act Turn 6. 3-3
Round 7: Jund Midrange Game 1: Game one was difficult as he gained quite a bit of life and had answers for my threats. Lost on the attrition. Game 2: With my extensive faithless looting and no unburial rites in game one, my opponent admitted putting me on reanimator and boarded incorrectly. I controlled the board until resolving a Gisela and a Reckoner in subsequent turns, swinging overhead for game. Game 3: As much of a back and forth game as we could've gotten, he Rakdos's Return'd me, nuking my whole hand with both of us with an empty board. I top-deck'd the Rakdos's Return, nuking his hand, putting us both in top-deck mode on turn 6. He drew better, though I drew almost every sweeper in my deck. Eventually, at 5 life, he resolved a Huntmaster, and I drew a land. 3-4 DROP.
I felt that with some tuning, the deck can perform quite well. Some things I noticed:
1. Tribute to Hunger was an all-star. I boarded it in for 6 rounds. I should move it to the main. I prefer it over devour flesh.
2. Merciless Eviction had a very strong showing against midrange but was far to slow against Aggro.
3. Sorin, Lord of Innistrad was discarded to faithless more than he was played. I'll be removing him.
4. Victim of Night was only a liability in one game, and it was a non-issue in the end. Great removal, keeping as a 3 of.
5. Olivia Voldaren will get you home. She is a cornerstone of the deck and is an auto-include.
6. Obzedat, Ghost Council and Griselbrand were never something I was looking for. I'll probably be removing them. Both are strong, but I feel that in my list their application is limited.
7. Rolling Temblor is quite underrated. Most people had to read it when I cast it, but it was effective in all my matchups except Experiment Jund and Jund Midrange. Turn 3 response to Geist is something to consider.
8. There was never a time that Faithless Looting was an issue for me. Dumping fatties early led my opponents to interact with my graveyard a little bit, and many of them boarded in graveyard hate which wasn't very effective in the long run. The card let me see much more of the deck, and the card quality in most cases overcame the card disadvantage. I'm leaving it at 4.
9. Blasphemous Act was effective with or without Boros Reckoner. I found it to be a delightful sweeper, and regularly able to cast on turn 4 following an aggro build up and a lingering souls cast.
10. Mizzium Mortars underperformed. I rarely wanted it over another option, and I never once needed to or would've benefitted from its overload. As a sweeper, Merciless Eviction is easier to cast and more versatile, as targeted removal I want more instant speed plays.
Hope this helps. I love the color combination and will probably continue to tool and tinker with it. If you have any questions or suggestions, let me know.
First of all thank you for posting something tourney related. I think that if we can better our game one by finding some kind of all puropse skeleton for the deck we can further ensure that the deck can enjoy success and improved matchups. We know our deck can compete post sideboard but our game ones are usually get the nut draw or auto lose. I also noticed in your posts that you did very well against blue based midrange decks but lost to aggro and green based midrange decks. I was thinking of maybe putting Skullcrack in the sideboard to deal with huntmaster and thragtusks lifegain as well as find more immediate ways to gain life other than waiting for an Obzedat or pray that a nighthawk can connect with an attack.
First of all thank you for posting something tourney related. I think that if we can better our game one by finding some kind of all puropse skeleton for the deck we can further ensure that the deck can enjoy success and improved matchups. We know our deck can compete post sideboard but our game ones are usually get the nut draw or auto lose. I also noticed in your posts that you did very well against blue based midrange decks but lost to aggro and green based midrange decks. I was thinking of maybe putting Skullcrack in the sideboard to deal with huntmaster and thragtusks lifegain as well as find more immediate ways to gain life other than waiting for an Obzedat or pray that a nighthawk can connect with an attack.
Where would you focus to fix Game 1 averages? creatures like Rhox Faithmender seem too slow and SB only. Enchantments like Blind Obedience or some other way to work in Extort may be too little too late. thoughts?
Where would you focus to fix Game 1 averages? creatures like Rhox Faithmender seem too slow and SB only. Enchantments like Blind Obedience or some other way to work in Extort may be too little too late. thoughts?
personally im trying nearhearth pilgrim. i think he might work, but i havent really tested him that much yet.
In my experiences, Blind Obedience has been mediocre at best. Sure, it slows down hasty two drops and three drops if you land it on the play. If you're on the draw in game one, what do you do? Out of the board it hasn't performed much better and I feel the extort is not worth the hassle.
Rhox Faithmender is too slow. I find he hits the board on a turn you need to sweep, not land a big guy who can gain you a little health.
Vampire Nighthawk underperformed for me as well. He is a solid creature and the lifegain is fine, I found that a turn 3 play that doesn't have immediate board impact was just lackluster.
In Daytona I felt that the deck needed more power cards in the 3-4-5 slots. Since we don't have an overly reliable sweeper in the 4 slot (Mutilate isn't the answer in a tri-color deck) and we don't have the board stalling or lifegain to ensure a turn 6 in game one, I think if we can land power cards in turns 3-4-5 think the deck will run better. Boros Reckoner stopped aggro dead in it's tracks every time he hit the board. We need other options of that sort.
With the aforementioned Reckoner floating everywhere, non-damage options for removal are ideal as well. It might not be a true "Sweeper" but Barter in Blood may fill the 4 slot well as a turn 4 option that will have little impact on your board state. Even jankier options like Augur Spree grant you some interesting options in the 3-4 slot.
Since I built my deck somewhat more focused around Reckoner, I have eyed Divine Reckoning as well, allowing me to safely run Reckoner out on turn 3 and wipe the board sans one on their side on turn 4.
My list from Saturday needs some tweaking, so I plan on making some changes.
Where would you focus to fix Game 1 averages? creatures like Rhox Faithmender seem too slow and SB only. Enchantments like Blind Obedience or some other way to work in Extort may be too little too late. thoughts?
I am testing Nearheath Pilgrim as well as Cathedral Sanctifier in those slots.
Missing one Blood Crypt and no one has any for trade; same deal with the lack of Sacred Foundry, and Innistrad buddy lands, though honestly I don't really want them in there; I'm fairly black heavy. Open to any thoughts/comments!
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EDH WBRKaalia of the VastRBW BChainer, Dementia MasterB Legacy 0Manaless Dredge0 RGoblinsR Standard RBWThe AristocratsWBR
Has anyone tried High Priest of Penance as a speed bump? Blocks/trades with Reckoner pretty well. I'll be trying it tonight.
Gonna throw in one Ring of Thune to see what happens. This ring on a High Priest or Reckoner, both creatures nobody wants to block or attack into, let's you attack and block with a growing monster.
Of course, the dream is to have an Olivia active with a growing High Priest ... "I'll destroy that, and that, ..."
Has anyone tried High Priest of Penance as a speed bump? Blocks/trades with Reckoner pretty well. I'll be trying it tonight.
Gonna throw in one Ring of Thune to see what happens. This ring on a High Priest or Reckoner, both creatures nobody wants to block or attack into, let's you attack and block with a growing monster.
Of course, the dream is to have an Olivia active with a growing High Priest ... "I'll destroy that, and that, ..."
*
i like high priest of pennance, but one thing you have to keep in mind is, he is only doing 1 damage per turn. if your role in the match is to be the aggressor (whos the beatdown is a great article), then this guy doesnt do a whole helluva lot unless the opponent has good things to target with his ability, and also provided that they dont just remove him or deal with him before he gets to kill something.
this being said, in the early game, hes the PERFECT roadblock against the mindless decks that just jam fast threats and attack. they either burn a removal spell on him (effectively gaining you life, or protecting your better threats), using burn-based removal and eating a 2 for 1, attacking into your guy, getting blocked, and losing a non-land permanent, or holding back attacks alltogether.
as for the ring. regeneration will probably help you more i would think. try the black one instead
or, alternatively, a threat would probably be better in that slot anyways, especially one that is more controlling.
You beat me to that Mablung. I tested High Priest in my main, and he worked suprisingly better than I expected. He combined with slayer's stronghold really well and managed to stall the turn I didn't drop a reckoner to drop Olivia. I still think we need a little more at the 2 drop slot and blind obediance although not as good as everyone gave credit for still slows the two cards that wrecked me gameday, Hellrider and Falkenrath Aristocrat.
You beat me to that Mablung. I tested High Priest in my main, and he worked suprisingly better than I expected. He combined with slayer's stronghold really well and managed to stall the turn I didn't drop a reckoner to drop Olivia. I still think we need a little more at the 2 drop slot and blind obediance although not as good as everyone gave credit for still slows the two cards that wrecked me gameday, Hellrider and Falkenrath Aristocrat.
there is a ton of good 2 drops. i prefer the more proactive ones to reactive ones. heres a few:
knight of infamy
knight of glory
elite inquisitor
nearhearth pilgrim
thalia, guardian of thraben
cartel aristocrat
lots more..
high priest is alright, but ive moved to using 1 main and 2 sideboard for now. i have found that in my meta, a lot of the time i want to be on the aggressive side of things, and high priest doesnt do nearly enough in the attacking department for me to want a lot of them.
have you considered rolling temblor main? you have no X/2 ground creatures, and when you use it you can ping for 2 with reckoner. olivia can also mop up weakened creatures at that point. im concerned your deck will have trouble in the early turns, even before turn 3 rolling temblor. you dont really have a lot of 1 and 2 costed things, and no 'proactive' 1 or 2 cost things (like a creature to put a clock on them, or a creature for defense of your hopefully stronger lategame).
i am actually under the impression that going 'light' on creatures is not where you would want to be right now. be resistant to supreme verdict and sweepers, but good creatures will get you a long way. especially when the backbone of your 'good creatures' plan can be boros reckoner.
dude you gotta cut those vexing devils. they serve virtually no purpose because your deck isnt geared to be HYPER AGGRO. and even in a hyper aggressive shell, i dont even know if they would end up being good enough. this is because you dont have the aggro to support the early 4 damage, and past aggro they just give your opponent an option to either take the 4 that they can afford, or deal with the creature, whichever works best for them. in a controlling shell, this card is the literal OPPOSITE of what you want.
I disagree with this assessment, vexing devil can have a place in a deck like this because of orzhov charm.
Turn 1 devil, they pay the 4, turn two orzhov charm(at end of their turn), they may or may not pay the 4, turn 3, boros charm for 4 swing 4 (they have taken 12 by turn 3, that seems pretty good) leaves a mana open for undying evil(if they try to kills spell it making them either take 4 or deal with a 5/4) yes i realize the list you were responding to did not have undying evil, however it did have the other cards
I disagree with this assessment, vexing devil can have a place in a deck like this because of orzhov charm.
Turn 1 devil, they pay the 4, turn two orzhov charm(at end of their turn), they may or may not pay the 4, turn 3, boros charm for 4 swing 4 (they have taken 12 by turn 3, that seems pretty good) leaves a mana open for undying evil(if they try to kills spell it making them either take 4 or deal with a 5/4) yes i realize the list you were responding to did not have undying evil, however it did have the other cards
Way too cute of an interaction. Charm is better than that.
I disagree with this assessment, vexing devil can have a place in a deck like this because of orzhov charm.
Turn 1 devil, they pay the 4, turn two orzhov charm(at end of their turn), they may or may not pay the 4, turn 3, boros charm for 4 swing 4 (they have taken 12 by turn 3, that seems pretty good) leaves a mana open for undying evil(if they try to kills spell it making them either take 4 or deal with a 5/4) yes i realize the list you were responding to did not have undying evil, however it did have the other cards
my assessment wasnt wrong at all. i said 'unless you are hyper aggro' vexing devil is terrible. which is entirely true. the deck you are talking about isnt 'dega control' its 'dega aggro'. cool interaction, but thats not 'control', thats 2 cards that cost R and WB and deal 4 damage a piece.
my assessment wasnt wrong at all. i said 'unless you are hyper aggro' vexing devil is terrible. which is entirely true. the deck you are talking about isnt 'dega control' its 'dega aggro'. cool interaction, but thats not 'control', thats 2 cards that cost R and WB and deal 4 damage a piece.
perhaps you and i have a different idea about what agro is, to me it is a lot of creatures that you turn sideways. Occasionally it will also have burn spells to give it reach.
I can concede the point that it is not necessarily "control" (although since you are controlling what your opponents are doing it certainly feels like it, because you know the card will force a kill spell or force the payment of 4 life, aka a known outcome) however it very much could be midrange (which can switch between agroing out and controlling the board, But there really isn't a Dega midrange thread so...) I suppose that if you wanted a kill spell that you could equally argue for duress, which would also give you knowledge of hand, but in my current meta everyone is "netdecking" and as such none of them have kill spells practically speaking so duress would be a look at their hand see x land and a bunch of creatures do nothing.
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Merciless Eviction plays better than it seems on paper, and it was a tough cut to sideboard. The versatility allows for a great plays. Six mana is hefty, but I found with the proper application of removal getting to six isn't as difficult as it was in previous versions of the list.
The minor reanimate package was in response to needing a filter spell to dig and gain card quality. It isn't to be relied on, but can also provide extra value out of a fatty or even just bringing back a reckoner.
I'll be taking Dega to the Daytona SCG Classic; look me up if you're heading that way. This is what my list is going to look like:
4 Blood Crypt
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
2 Clifftop Retreat
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Mountain
1 Stensia Bloodhall
1 Vault of the Archangel
CREATURE (10)
4 Boros Reckoner
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
1 Griselbrand
1 Obzedat, Ghost Council
3 Olivia Voldaren
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
SORCERY (21)
2 Blasphemous Act
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Rakdos's Return
2 Rolling Temblor
2 Terminus
2 Unburial Rites
INSTANT (3)
3 Victim of Night
1 Angel of Serenity
2 Dreadbore
2 Merciless Eviction
3 Pillar of Flame
3 Rakdos Charm
2 Rolling Temblor
2 Slaughter Games
RRRKamahl, Pit FighterRRR
Standard:
RRRRDWRRR
cathedral sanc can probably be replaced with something else that is a lot better in the late game. even early game its really not going to be that impressive. i dont think its worth a slot in the 75. theres just so many better cards you could be running.
what is the sundering growth for in your sideboard? is there a particular artifact / enchantment you are concerned about? the synergy between growth and lingering souls is cute, but is it powerful enough to warrant its inclusion? what about one of the enchantment-hate bears that are standard legal? im pretty sure theres a 1W 2/2 that kills an enchantment when it comes in, and one that you can sac as well. either of those will hit problematic enchantments and provide a body (clock) that your likely control opponent will have to deal with.
i think surely there is something better than treasury thrull. i also think trading post might be more cute than good. its pretty slow and will only really win you card advantage in a control matchup if you get all the pieces together, and even then it does it at such a slow pace it probably wont matter. you'll just spend too much time durdling around with post, and not enough time actually pressuring them, or out-controlling them.
im not sure i would run faithless looting for your deck. while it does have synergy with a few cards in your deck, particularly the big creatures and the unburial rites + lingering souls, it nets you card disadvantage, and if you arent drawing your unburial rites its just going to set you back with the plus of sifting thru your deck a little bit.
maybe you could do something like:
-4 faithless looting
-2 unburial rites
-1 gizela
-1 griselbrand
-1 victim of night (to vary your removal)
+2 underworld connections
+1 angel of serenity
+2 dreadbore
+2 obzedat
+2 tragic slip
also, liliana of the veil has been very good for me. have you tried her in the control matchup? shes so crucial there, forcing them to try to kill her by tapping out on their turn, where you can follow up with more lilianas, or other huge spells like rakdos's return, or nice beaters.
Keeping an eye out on your progress! Let us know how everything goes!
4 Geralf's Messenger
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Restoration Angel
3 Obzedat, Ghost Council
4 Thundermaw Hellkite
Spells:
3 Blind Obedience
3 Dreadbore
2 Boros Charm
1 Mizzium Mortars
3 Searing Spear
2 Rakdos's Return
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Devour Flesh
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Blood Crypt
4 Godless Shrine
4 Rakdos Guildgate
4 Orzhov Guildgate
1 Swamp
2 Slaughter Games
3 Pillar of Flame
3 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Rakdos's Return
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Devour Flesh
3 Rest in Peace
1 Rhox Faithmender
I've tested this list against the mono-red, naya and bant midrange decks, it wrecks control, I think this list is pretty solid. You might ask why the guildgates? Wont it be slow against mono red. As you can see, there are no 1 mana spells that are highly important to cast, and the fact that there are only 8 of them means if you keep a proper hand, they won't be a nuisance. And yes, it's worth using this land base to support the 2 most impactful cards in standard.
I created this list from taking what the Jund Midrange in top 8 used, and let me tell you, turn 5 Obzedat, Ghost Council into turn 6 Thundermaw Hellkite is 14 points of damage if it goes unblock, not saying you should do that at every board state, but its nice to know you can.
the only problem i see with all the guildgates is that they inherently do slow your deck down, and make all of your shock lands much more likely to deal damage to you.
in your example, you have a turn 5 obzedat into turn 6 thundermaw. but if you are drawing your guildgates they can set you back to further turns with this play.
reckoner and messenger are both great cards, but i think they are too mana intensive to warrant playing both in the same list as 4 ofs. how about 4 reckoner and 2 messenger? then you could cut back on your guildgates a bit.
you also have to consider the impact of your guildgates on the early turns because your come into play tapped lands (or take 2 damage lands) will really really hurt you when you are trying to fend against a hyper aggressive start.
you have 10 2 drops but 0 1 drops. so if you are on the draw, and you draw 2 guildgates, do you auto-mulligan every time? that cant be good for consistency's sake. i dont think you can afford to do nothing for the first 2 turns of the game, so you basically have to mulligan any hands containing only guildgates for lands.
i guess a way to get around this inherent problem would be to just use more 1 drops so on your second turn, when you have to play a second guildgate, you can still play a 1 drop and kill something thats beating your face in before its too late.
4 Hellrider
4 Thundermaw Hellkite
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
1 Aurelia, the Warleader
2 Boros Charms
3 Pillar of Flames
2 Searing Spear
1 Mizzium Mortar
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Lingering Souls
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Entreat the Angels
2 Underworld Connections
1 Orzhov Charm
2 Bonfire of the Damned
4 Godless Shrines
4 Sacred Foundary
4 Blood Crypt
4 Clifftop Retreat
4 Isolated Chapel
1 Slayer's Stronghold
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Blind Obediance
3 Duress
2 Slaughter Games
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 War Priest of Thune
1 Rest in Peace
have you considered using mainboard tragic slip? i think that card should be good right now, especially with how huge boros reckoner is nowadays
also, i think nighthawk is still better than sanctifier anyways.
think of it this way:
the thing that they'll use to kill nighthawk is likely searing spear. if they aim him, they arent using that 3 damage to your dome. if they dont aim him, his deathtouch and flying will likely either kill something important and gain you 2, or constantly gain you 2 per turn. i think hes a much better investment for your slots than sanc is.
thats also a cool synergy with your underworld connections and miracles
How do you deal with cards like Rakdos Return and opposing Slaughter Games?
A very good card against other RB decks
I'm currently playing / working on Midrange Deck using these colours.
Trying to get a hand on some more liliana of the veil. Gonna be making a primer soon for it.
WBRDega MidrangeRBW
Like I said, I ran Dega at the Daytona Classic this weekend, though the 75 I posted was tweaked due to the room scouting on the day of the tournament. I feel that the changes I made to the board and swapping out the Stensia for a Stronghold were probably the better options, though I believe the Slayers' Stronghold could have been another Vault of the Archangel. I felt the deck ran well against all my opponents. I ended at 3-4 Drop in round seven. I was alive to top 32 through 6 rounds according to standings and breakers.
Round 1: Bant Hexproof
Game 1: I lost the roll and started on the draw. He played a turn three Geist of Saint Traft, which I Rolling Temblor'd away, but I stalled on lands at 4 with a Terminus in hand. Loss.
Game 2: On the play I play cat and mouse with another turn 3 Geist, unsummon vs. Tribute to Hunger, Temblor, Tribute in that order. Turn 7 he pacified my Boros Reckoner. I dropped a hardcast Gisela, Blade of Goldnight, which he also pacified. Dropped a Geist, suited it up, and passed. I top-decked and Olivia Voldaren, played it and passed with 4 open mana. He played more enchantments on the Geist and swung, leaving no white mana open, I pinged the Angel token twice to kill it (go Gisela) and took half damage from the Geist not scared of Boros Charm. On the back swing, I swung in with Olivia and pinged the Reckoner twice, redirecting 4 and hitting for 10 for game.
Game 3:On the draw, I fell victim to a turn 5 10/6 trampling Strangelroot Geist. Tributing it once on turn 3 and without another removal spell to deal with it, I fell. Loss. 0-1
Round 2: America Midrange
Game 1: I won the roll and was on the play, dropping a turn 3 Reckoner, effectively freezing his board. I banged him down to 8 with the Reckoner, and cast Blasphemous Act, his sphinx's to draw into a counter did not yield a response.
Game 2: Turn 3 on the play Reckoner was dealt with as a 2 for 1 with a Searing Spear, taking out an Augur of Bolas. I got him to 13, passed. He tapped out for a Thundermaw Hellkite, taking me to 5, passed. I cast act for game. 1-1
Round 3: America Midrange
Game 1: No temblors or sweeps to take out his turn 3 Geist. Hit me down to 8 with it and unloaded spears and Boros Charms into me.
Game 2: Turn three Reckoner on the play, my opponent land flooded and fell victim to another Blasphemous Act.
Game 3: Major Nail-Biter. I'm against the ropes the entire game, dealing with a Geist and an opposing Reckoner. At 7 life and my opponent at 16, reckoner on board and act in hand, I top deck a Victim of Night, cast the act, hold priority, victim the reckoner, wiping the board and dropping him to 3. He casts a Reckoner on the following turn, which I drop an Olivia. He swings, no blocks, I go to 4. I swing back with Olivia. He flashes in a Restoration Angel, which I ping, then steal in response to the blink trigger for game. 2-1
Round 4: Experiment Jund
Game 1: He all but god handed me, curb stomping me with a combination of Hellrider and Flinthoof Boar. I never stood a chance.
Game 2: Post board, I felt much better, almost getting him, but he top decked a late game Hellrider to seal it. 2-2
*Note:* This was against my friend who rode with me to the tournament from Dothan, AL, and was part of the group who developed the Experiment Jund list you probably saw a bit of coverage about from the PT.
Round 5: Naya Beats
Game 1: I drew no sweeper and was unceremoniously showed the door but a wave of dudes.
Game 2: I worked a few Temblors and an Olivia into victory. A grindy match, I cast and flashed back Temblor 3 times.
Game 3: Turn 2 Thalia on the play sealed my fate. By the time I got rid of her I didn't have the board state to recover. 2-3
Round 6: Naya Beats
Game 1: Continued my trend of getting hammered in game ones. Lost by a large margin to a lot of bears on the board. Saw no sweepers and the spot removal I did see couldn't target his Mayor of Avabruck or Huntmaster of the Fells.
Game 2: Landed a turn 3 Reckoner into a Turn 4 Olivia. I know playing the Olivia was a mistake on the hindsight, but I needed board presence at the time. When he got stonewalled by 2 for 1's, I cleared the board with Olivia and swung in.
Game 3: Reanimated Gisela on turn 4, Reckoner turn 5, one shotted with Blasphemous Act Turn 6. 3-3
Round 7: Jund Midrange
Game 1: Game one was difficult as he gained quite a bit of life and had answers for my threats. Lost on the attrition.
Game 2: With my extensive faithless looting and no unburial rites in game one, my opponent admitted putting me on reanimator and boarded incorrectly. I controlled the board until resolving a Gisela and a Reckoner in subsequent turns, swinging overhead for game.
Game 3: As much of a back and forth game as we could've gotten, he Rakdos's Return'd me, nuking my whole hand with both of us with an empty board. I top-deck'd the Rakdos's Return, nuking his hand, putting us both in top-deck mode on turn 6. He drew better, though I drew almost every sweeper in my deck. Eventually, at 5 life, he resolved a Huntmaster, and I drew a land. 3-4 DROP.
I felt that with some tuning, the deck can perform quite well. Some things I noticed:
1. Tribute to Hunger was an all-star. I boarded it in for 6 rounds. I should move it to the main. I prefer it over devour flesh.
2. Merciless Eviction had a very strong showing against midrange but was far to slow against Aggro.
3. Sorin, Lord of Innistrad was discarded to faithless more than he was played. I'll be removing him.
4. Victim of Night was only a liability in one game, and it was a non-issue in the end. Great removal, keeping as a 3 of.
5. Olivia Voldaren will get you home. She is a cornerstone of the deck and is an auto-include.
6. Obzedat, Ghost Council and Griselbrand were never something I was looking for. I'll probably be removing them. Both are strong, but I feel that in my list their application is limited.
7. Rolling Temblor is quite underrated. Most people had to read it when I cast it, but it was effective in all my matchups except Experiment Jund and Jund Midrange. Turn 3 response to Geist is something to consider.
8. There was never a time that Faithless Looting was an issue for me. Dumping fatties early led my opponents to interact with my graveyard a little bit, and many of them boarded in graveyard hate which wasn't very effective in the long run. The card let me see much more of the deck, and the card quality in most cases overcame the card disadvantage. I'm leaving it at 4.
9. Blasphemous Act was effective with or without Boros Reckoner. I found it to be a delightful sweeper, and regularly able to cast on turn 4 following an aggro build up and a lingering souls cast.
10. Mizzium Mortars underperformed. I rarely wanted it over another option, and I never once needed to or would've benefitted from its overload. As a sweeper, Merciless Eviction is easier to cast and more versatile, as targeted removal I want more instant speed plays.
Hope this helps. I love the color combination and will probably continue to tool and tinker with it. If you have any questions or suggestions, let me know.
Here is the list from Saturday:
4 Blood Crypt
4 Godless Shrine
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Isolated Chapel
2 Clifftop Retreat
2 Mountain
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Slayer's Stronghold
Creatures (10)
4 Boros Reckoner
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
1 Griselbrand
1 Obzedat, Ghost Quarter
3 Olivia Voldaren
2 Blasphemous Act
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Rakdos's Return
2 Rolling Temblor
2 Terminus
2 Unburial Rites
Instant (3)
3 Victim of Night
Planeswalker (2)
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Angel of Serenity
2 Dreadbore
2 Merciless Eviction
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Rolling Temblor
2 Slaughter Games
2 Tribute to Hunger
RRRKamahl, Pit FighterRRR
Standard:
RRRRDWRRR
First of all thank you for posting something tourney related. I think that if we can better our game one by finding some kind of all puropse skeleton for the deck we can further ensure that the deck can enjoy success and improved matchups. We know our deck can compete post sideboard but our game ones are usually get the nut draw or auto lose. I also noticed in your posts that you did very well against blue based midrange decks but lost to aggro and green based midrange decks. I was thinking of maybe putting Skullcrack in the sideboard to deal with huntmaster and thragtusks lifegain as well as find more immediate ways to gain life other than waiting for an Obzedat or pray that a nighthawk can connect with an attack.
Where would you focus to fix Game 1 averages? creatures like Rhox Faithmender seem too slow and SB only. Enchantments like Blind Obedience or some other way to work in Extort may be too little too late. thoughts?
Rhox Faithmender is too slow. I find he hits the board on a turn you need to sweep, not land a big guy who can gain you a little health.
Vampire Nighthawk underperformed for me as well. He is a solid creature and the lifegain is fine, I found that a turn 3 play that doesn't have immediate board impact was just lackluster.
In Daytona I felt that the deck needed more power cards in the 3-4-5 slots. Since we don't have an overly reliable sweeper in the 4 slot (Mutilate isn't the answer in a tri-color deck) and we don't have the board stalling or lifegain to ensure a turn 6 in game one, I think if we can land power cards in turns 3-4-5 think the deck will run better. Boros Reckoner stopped aggro dead in it's tracks every time he hit the board. We need other options of that sort.
With the aforementioned Reckoner floating everywhere, non-damage options for removal are ideal as well. It might not be a true "Sweeper" but Barter in Blood may fill the 4 slot well as a turn 4 option that will have little impact on your board state. Even jankier options like Augur Spree grant you some interesting options in the 3-4 slot.
Since I built my deck somewhat more focused around Reckoner, I have eyed Divine Reckoning as well, allowing me to safely run Reckoner out on turn 3 and wipe the board sans one on their side on turn 4.
My list from Saturday needs some tweaking, so I plan on making some changes.
-1 Obzedat, Ghost Council
-1 Griselbrand
-2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
-1 Mizzium Mortars
-1 Angel of Serenity (Sideboard)
-1 Tribute to Hunger (Sideboard)
+1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
+2 Tribute to Hunger
+2 Divine Reckoning
+1 Paraselene (Sideboard)
+1 Nevermore (Sideboard)
So the new list would look something like:
4 Blood Crypt
4 Godless Shrine
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Isolated Chapel
2 Clifftop Retreat
2 Mountain
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Slayer's Stronghold
Creatures (9)
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
3 Olivia Voldaren
2 Blasphemous Act
2 Divine Reckoning
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Rakdos's Return
2 Rolling Temblor
2 Terminus
2 Unburial Rites
Instant (5)
2 Tribute to Hunger
3 Victim of Night
2 Dreadbore
2 Merciless Eviction
1 Nevermore
1 Paraselene
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Rolling Temblor
2 Slaughter Games
1 Tribute to Hunger
RRRKamahl, Pit FighterRRR
Standard:
RRRRDWRRR
I am testing Nearheath Pilgrim as well as Cathedral Sanctifier in those slots.
2x Olivia Voldaren
1x Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
4x Geralf's Messenger
4x Vampire Nighthawk
Instants (10)
3x Victim of Night
2x Tribute to Hunger
4x Altar's Reap
1x Tragic Slip
Sorceries (9)
3x Dreadbore
4x Lingering Souls
2x Rolling Temblor
2x Assemble the Legion
1x Descent into Madness
2x Oblivion Ring
Lands (25)
3x Blood Crypt
4x Godless Shrine
3x Dragonskull Summit
2x Plains
2x Mountain
11x Swamp
2x Oblivion Ring
2x Pithing Needle
2x Rakdos's Return
3x Slaughter Games
1x Tribute to Hunter
2x Tragic Slip
3x Duress
Missing one Blood Crypt and no one has any for trade; same deal with the lack of Sacred Foundry, and Innistrad buddy lands, though honestly I don't really want them in there; I'm fairly black heavy. Open to any thoughts/comments!
EDH
WBRKaalia of the VastRBW
BChainer, Dementia MasterB
Legacy
0Manaless Dredge0
RGoblinsR
Standard
RBWThe AristocratsWBR
Gonna throw in one Ring of Thune to see what happens. This ring on a High Priest or Reckoner, both creatures nobody wants to block or attack into, let's you attack and block with a growing monster.
Of course, the dream is to have an Olivia active with a growing High Priest ... "I'll destroy that, and that, ..."
*
this being said, in the early game, hes the PERFECT roadblock against the mindless decks that just jam fast threats and attack. they either burn a removal spell on him (effectively gaining you life, or protecting your better threats), using burn-based removal and eating a 2 for 1, attacking into your guy, getting blocked, and losing a non-land permanent, or holding back attacks alltogether.
as for the ring. regeneration will probably help you more i would think. try the black one instead
or, alternatively, a threat would probably be better in that slot anyways, especially one that is more controlling.
there is a ton of good 2 drops. i prefer the more proactive ones to reactive ones. heres a few:
knight of infamy
knight of glory
elite inquisitor
nearhearth pilgrim
thalia, guardian of thraben
cartel aristocrat
lots more..
high priest is alright, but ive moved to using 1 main and 2 sideboard for now. i have found that in my meta, a lot of the time i want to be on the aggressive side of things, and high priest doesnt do nearly enough in the attacking department for me to want a lot of them.
I made a variant more of Midrange build and went 3-1 in my game day finishing 4th which wasn't to bad with the following list:
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Olivia Voldaren
3 Obzedat, Ghost Council
2 Aurelia, the Warleader
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Sorceries ( 17 )
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
2 Rakdos's Return
3 Dreadbore
2 Unburial Rites
2 Blasphemous Act
2 Ultimate Price
1 Aurelia's Fury
Lands ( 24 )
4 Blood Crypt
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Godless Shrine
3 Cavern of Souls
3 Dragonskull Summit
2 Clifftop Retreat
2 Isolated Chapel
2 Slayers' Stronghold
2 Blind Obedience
2 Rest in Peace
2 Slaughter Games
2 Tragic Slip
2 Angel of Serenity
2 Witchbane Orb
3 Rolling Tumbler
WBRDega MidrangeRBW
have you considered rolling temblor main? you have no X/2 ground creatures, and when you use it you can ping for 2 with reckoner. olivia can also mop up weakened creatures at that point. im concerned your deck will have trouble in the early turns, even before turn 3 rolling temblor. you dont really have a lot of 1 and 2 costed things, and no 'proactive' 1 or 2 cost things (like a creature to put a clock on them, or a creature for defense of your hopefully stronger lategame).
i am actually under the impression that going 'light' on creatures is not where you would want to be right now. be resistant to supreme verdict and sweepers, but good creatures will get you a long way. especially when the backbone of your 'good creatures' plan can be boros reckoner.
I disagree with this assessment, vexing devil can have a place in a deck like this because of orzhov charm.
Turn 1 devil, they pay the 4, turn two orzhov charm(at end of their turn), they may or may not pay the 4, turn 3, boros charm for 4 swing 4 (they have taken 12 by turn 3, that seems pretty good) leaves a mana open for undying evil(if they try to kills spell it making them either take 4 or deal with a 5/4) yes i realize the list you were responding to did not have undying evil, however it did have the other cards
Way too cute of an interaction. Charm is better than that.
my assessment wasnt wrong at all. i said 'unless you are hyper aggro' vexing devil is terrible. which is entirely true. the deck you are talking about isnt 'dega control' its 'dega aggro'. cool interaction, but thats not 'control', thats 2 cards that cost R and WB and deal 4 damage a piece.
perhaps you and i have a different idea about what agro is, to me it is a lot of creatures that you turn sideways. Occasionally it will also have burn spells to give it reach.
I can concede the point that it is not necessarily "control" (although since you are controlling what your opponents are doing it certainly feels like it, because you know the card will force a kill spell or force the payment of 4 life, aka a known outcome) however it very much could be midrange (which can switch between agroing out and controlling the board, But there really isn't a Dega midrange thread so...) I suppose that if you wanted a kill spell that you could equally argue for duress, which would also give you knowledge of hand, but in my current meta everyone is "netdecking" and as such none of them have kill spells practically speaking so duress would be a look at their hand see x land and a bunch of creatures do nothing.