3 Helix, 3 Spear, and 2 Pillar was enough to get me there 6/7 times I have ulted chandra, the last time I ulted her I hit an Rites which was enough for me to get there.
Yes, you are generally winning anyways. However the times I blank on her ultimate are times where I was ahead and still against a clock. These were matches where there were still outs to Chandra and Chandra is really the only threat getting there. I have lost a few games after popping her and blanking. Considerable in the number of game I have done it? Not really. But enough for me to rather run a different win condition in her place or up the burn count a smidgen. I am not a fan of how they have answers to creatures but not her and I am racing a Drownyard or a Bonfire lurking around etc. It is a gross feeling and it makes me feel like an idiot for playing her, whether she wins or not.
Yes, you are generally winning anyways. However the times I blank on her ultimate are times where I was ahead and still against a clock. These were matches where there were still outs to Chandra and Chandra is really the only threat getting there. I have lost a few games after popping her and blanking. Considerable in the number of game I have done it? Not really. But enough for me to rather run a different win condition in her place or up the burn count a smidgen. I am not a fan of how they have answers to creatures but not her and I am racing a Drownyard or a Bonfire lurking around etc. It is a gross feeling and it makes me feel like an idiot for playing her, whether she wins or not.
I guess what I am asking is that is there a ruff threshold of burn spells to make the hitting the ulitmate plasable. also are you saying you would up the burn count or replace her. have only been working with chandra for a few days and I am still not sure what to make of her.
So 6 burn spells means 1/10th of your deck is what you are looking to hit on an ultimate? Assuming the diversity is not very diverse I would say there is a good chance of hitting one on her ultimate, however I am at 4 Helix and 2 Spears and her ultimate has whiffed on me before, which is not entirely surprising at 6 spells I want to hit, just reasonable.
The reason I would up the count for myself is because I want that certainty. I sweat my pants off when I start upping her sometimes because I assume against many decks, she could be gone at any moment. Detention Sphere off the top, Thundermaw Hellkites, Dreadbores, Bonfire of the Damned or even small critters to just knocker her down out of nowhere like Flinthoof Boar, or a Rampaging dork. AEtherling can fall into this Category sometimes as well.
She is not the easiest thing to keep alive and while I like what she can do, I am not a fan of the uncertainty I am starting to recognize when I am using her as a weapon and sometimes I just have to use her as a weapon.
My local meta has become overrun with Jund and Gruul Aggro. Lingering Souls, a card I've clung onto longer than most in this thread, is pretty weak against both decks, because of Jund's Bonfires and Gruul's Thundermaws. Consequently, I've transitioned away from the Lingering Souls/Sorin, Lord of Innistrad package. Is Desecration Demon, another Keyrune, and a Rites package the answer? Demon in particular I find very hard to evaluate outside of playtesting with it extensively, something I haven't had the time to do as of late. What have been people's experiences with the Demon? What cards have you guys found effective at beating Jund or Gruul Aggro?
Aetherling is a card you need to SG out as soon as you draw the card to have any hope in that matchup unless you have more instant-speed removal than they have blue mana open. (highly unlikely) and unless you see SG turn 4 or 5, you'll be too late.
I also went 3-1 last night at FNM, been busy all day today so haven't been able to put up a TR until now.
Round 1 -- BYE - there's 25 players here and I drew the short straw. I know it makes my breakers amazing, but I'd much rather have played.
Round 2 -- Mono-Green Aggro - W 2-0 - The guy made the deck a few nights ago, and while it had a lot of power behind it, he really didn't have any way to deal with my popping his dudes. Game 1 he gets me to 3 life before I get reckoner to stall the ground, vampire nighthawk in the air to gain life, and pick it back up from there. Game 2 he amasses a giant army, and I land gisela facing an otherwise very lethal board, meaning his alpha strike would only take me to 1.
next turn I drop rakdos' return for 6 doubled for exact damage.
Round 3 -- Bant Enchant - L 0-2 - Game 1 he gets triple ethereal armor and rancor on an invisible stalker by turn 4. Game 2 he makes a sketchy keep and plays temple garden into avacyn's pilgrim on turn 1. I take a guess that he might be out of lands in his hand and doom blade the pilgrim hoping to keep him mana screwed.
Turns out his hand had another pilgrim, 2 more lands, and enough auras to nuke me, and went off when I didn't draw another kill spell. He was questioning the keep because he had no other dudes outside the two pilgrims.
Round 4 -- UW Spirits - W 2-0 - This match was painful because drogskol captain made it damn near impossible to clear his board of blockers. Then Mizzium mortars overloaded and I won from there. Game two he makes plenty of spirits, but I play assemble the legion and win through sheer numbers.
The bye ensured I'd have almost perfect breakers and ended up in 4th place. (the bant enchant guy lost the last round because - and I'm not making this up - his opponent scouted the field before the tourney and stuck 3 glaring spotlight into his maindeck with a 4th in the board.) Still good for 4 packs, one of which had Chandra, Pyromancer in it.
Now I'm faced with a decision - Should Chandra replace Rakdos' Return as my tech 1-of, or should I keep the list the same?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
This was basically a bi. This guy was using a an edited precon.
Round 2: R/W/B Tokens
2:1
A much more experienced player tinkering around with Young Pyromancer, this was tokens that came out pretty strong. Game one I only took by a single turn with a blood baron. He was trying to dig for an answer and couldn't get a blocker.
Side board: -Rakdos Returns, -Obzedat -2 Rites, -2 Shock
+3 Wear//Tear, +2 Blasphemous Act, +1 Sever the bloodline
Game two he got an early intangible virtue which I quickly dispatched, but he landed a Chandra which quickly mucked up my board. Not being able to block with blood baron or Olivia lost me the game, even post sever.
Game three went really well. I hit two intangibles, severed for spirits, and was sitting on a blood baron. He removed the baron and I topdecked the land I needed to flashback sever. After that I landed an Aurelia and got him down to six. He dropped an intangible and defended with a top decked double cast lingering souls. At this point I had a keyrune out and two blasphemous acts in hand. After weeping the board with one act and hitting him with my keyrune, he cast a Krenkos command and passed. I acted again and swung for game.
Round three was against another Boros aggro deck, though this one h ad the cards to support it. We traded Reckoners, but he couldn't stop blood baron.
2-0
Round Four I fought a red black aggro deck.
Game one I dominated him. I removed his creatures and he answered mine, but I came out top with Reckoner.
Game two he cemented a pretty quick board position, and I dropped a Boros Reckoner. He took it with Act of treason and swung for game.
Game three he dropped a desecration demon and act of treasoned my Blood baron for ten damage. I answered the demon with a dreadbore, but he top decked a second one. I top decked an Aurelia and was holding on to a Warleader's helix. Since he only had one card in hand I dropped Aurelia and hit him for 12 and got myself up to 18. Next turn he acted my Aurelia and swung for game.
Round five was against our local Sliver player.
It was basically a bi. He couldn't handle my removal, and our second game I got in with two static active blood barons and a slayer's stronghold for 22.
I ended up taking third and was sad I couldn't fight the Jund player for first. I was really confident in my sideboard for my Jund and aristocrats matches.
My only displeasure was act of treason. The past three Fnms it's been the only card to K.O. me, to the point where I feel like making room for Brave the elements
I did enjoy Chandra the two times I saw her. She stopped the only blocker the sliver player had for my baron. I'll be testing more and will post my tinkered deck Tuesday.
So i was thinking in replacing my Boros Reckoners for Vampire Nighthawk, with this metagame i think hes bether, he blocks desecration demon, thundermaw the next turn,lifebane zombie, bant auras if they dont have armor or even chump if they gain flying.
I did some comparisions and i concluded this:
only matchup were reckoner is alot bether is G/R Kibler, and Jund slight bether.
IMAGE#1 IMAGE#2 IMAGE#3
Deck Creatures: 15
1 Aurelia, the Warleader
3 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Sin Collector
2 Olivia Voldaren
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
I think your deck is top heavy and you will have problems hitting lands drops 5 and 6. Also I think that sin collocter is very weak as a main deck card. Aurelia should be thundermaw hellkite and you should drop the returns because they compete for the same mana slots your finishers do. I would plus one land and four reckoners ,replace obzedat and aurelia with thundermaws, drop the collocters and returns.
I'm making an effort to play Dega before and after rotation. I've played it in several tournaments and FNMs in the past, and it's definitely one of my favorite decks ever.
The part I'm worried about pre rotation is burning earth. My previous list ran 25 shocks/checks/non-basics - the entire land base.
Does anyone have a list I can reference that uses more basic lands? Because it seems as though Burning Earth shuts us/3-color-decks down.
4 Blood Baron 3-4 Warleader's Helix and 3 Wear//Tear should be good enough for that match. My standard list is in my signature if you want to take a look. My roommate plays Red Aggro and we jam so many games it is stupid. The above set up goes a long ways in helping shore the match up when it comes to BE. I would say it is better than messing with an incredible mana base.
Posted from MTGsalvation.com App for Android
I guess what I am asking is that is there a ruff threshold of burn spells to make the hitting the ulitmate plasable. also are you saying you would up the burn count or replace her. have only been working with chandra for a few days and I am still not sure what to make of her.
Posted from MTGsalvation.com App for Android
The reason I would up the count for myself is because I want that certainty. I sweat my pants off when I start upping her sometimes because I assume against many decks, she could be gone at any moment. Detention Sphere off the top, Thundermaw Hellkites, Dreadbores, Bonfire of the Damned or even small critters to just knocker her down out of nowhere like Flinthoof Boar, or a Rampaging dork. AEtherling can fall into this Category sometimes as well.
She is not the easiest thing to keep alive and while I like what she can do, I am not a fan of the uncertainty I am starting to recognize when I am using her as a weapon and sometimes I just have to use her as a weapon.
I also went 3-1 last night at FNM, been busy all day today so haven't been able to put up a TR until now.
Here's my list:
4 Godless Shrine
3 Sacred Foundry
3 Blood Crypt
3 Dragonskull Summit
2 Isolated Chapel
1 Clifftop Retreat
2 Plains
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
Creatures (15)
3 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Boros Reckoner
2 Restoration Angel
1 Obzedat, Ghost Council
4 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
1 Aurelia, the Warleader
1 Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
3 Pillar of Flame
2 Duress
2 Doom Blade
2 Dreadbore
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Underworld Connections
3 Warleader's Helix
2 Unburial Rites
1 Rakdos' Return
2 Rest in Peace
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Assemble the Legion
3 Slaughter Games
3 Sin Collector
3 Oblivion Ring
Round 1 -- BYE - there's 25 players here and I drew the short straw. I know it makes my breakers amazing, but I'd much rather have played.
Round 2 -- Mono-Green Aggro - W 2-0 - The guy made the deck a few nights ago, and while it had a lot of power behind it, he really didn't have any way to deal with my popping his dudes. Game 1 he gets me to 3 life before I get reckoner to stall the ground, vampire nighthawk in the air to gain life, and pick it back up from there. Game 2 he amasses a giant army, and I land gisela facing an otherwise very lethal board, meaning his alpha strike would only take me to 1.
next turn I drop rakdos' return for 6 doubled for exact damage.
Round 3 -- Bant Enchant - L 0-2 - Game 1 he gets triple ethereal armor and rancor on an invisible stalker by turn 4. Game 2 he makes a sketchy keep and plays temple garden into avacyn's pilgrim on turn 1. I take a guess that he might be out of lands in his hand and doom blade the pilgrim hoping to keep him mana screwed.
Turns out his hand had another pilgrim, 2 more lands, and enough auras to nuke me, and went off when I didn't draw another kill spell. He was questioning the keep because he had no other dudes outside the two pilgrims.
Round 4 -- UW Spirits - W 2-0 - This match was painful because drogskol captain made it damn near impossible to clear his board of blockers. Then Mizzium mortars overloaded and I won from there. Game two he makes plenty of spirits, but I play assemble the legion and win through sheer numbers.
The bye ensured I'd have almost perfect breakers and ended up in 4th place. (the bant enchant guy lost the last round because - and I'm not making this up - his opponent scouted the field before the tourney and stuck 3 glaring spotlight into his maindeck with a 4th in the board.) Still good for 4 packs, one of which had Chandra, Pyromancer in it.
Now I'm faced with a decision - Should Chandra replace Rakdos' Return as my tech 1-of, or should I keep the list the same?
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
// Deck: Dega Midrange (60)
2 Blood Crypt
1 Cavern of Souls
3 Clifftop Retreat
3 Dragonskull Summit
3 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
1 Mountain
2 Plains
4 Sacred Foundry
2 Slayers' Stronghold
// Creatures
2 Aurelia, the Warleader
4 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
4 Boros Reckoner
1 Obzedat, Ghost Council
2 Olivia Voldaren
2 Sin Collector
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Dreadbore
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Rakdos Keyrune
1 Rakdos's Return
3 Searing Spear
3 Shock
2 Unburial Rites
3 Warleader's Helix
3 Lifebane Zombie
3 Appetite for brains
2 Blasphemous Acts
1 Rakdos' Returns
2 Fiendslayer Paladin
1 Sever the bloodline
3 Wear//Tear
Round 1: Boros aggro
2-0
This was basically a bi. This guy was using a an edited precon.
Round 2: R/W/B Tokens
2:1
A much more experienced player tinkering around with Young Pyromancer, this was tokens that came out pretty strong. Game one I only took by a single turn with a blood baron. He was trying to dig for an answer and couldn't get a blocker.
Side board: -Rakdos Returns, -Obzedat -2 Rites, -2 Shock
+3 Wear//Tear, +2 Blasphemous Act, +1 Sever the bloodline
Game two he got an early intangible virtue which I quickly dispatched, but he landed a Chandra which quickly mucked up my board. Not being able to block with blood baron or Olivia lost me the game, even post sever.
Game three went really well. I hit two intangibles, severed for spirits, and was sitting on a blood baron. He removed the baron and I topdecked the land I needed to flashback sever. After that I landed an Aurelia and got him down to six. He dropped an intangible and defended with a top decked double cast lingering souls. At this point I had a keyrune out and two blasphemous acts in hand. After weeping the board with one act and hitting him with my keyrune, he cast a Krenkos command and passed. I acted again and swung for game.
Round three was against another Boros aggro deck, though this one h ad the cards to support it. We traded Reckoners, but he couldn't stop blood baron.
2-0
Round Four I fought a red black aggro deck.
Game one I dominated him. I removed his creatures and he answered mine, but I came out top with Reckoner.
Sideboard: -Rakdos return, -unburial +2 Fiendslayer
Game two he cemented a pretty quick board position, and I dropped a Boros Reckoner. He took it with Act of treason and swung for game.
Game three he dropped a desecration demon and act of treasoned my Blood baron for ten damage. I answered the demon with a dreadbore, but he top decked a second one. I top decked an Aurelia and was holding on to a Warleader's helix. Since he only had one card in hand I dropped Aurelia and hit him for 12 and got myself up to 18. Next turn he acted my Aurelia and swung for game.
Round five was against our local Sliver player.
It was basically a bi. He couldn't handle my removal, and our second game I got in with two static active blood barons and a slayer's stronghold for 22.
I ended up taking third and was sad I couldn't fight the Jund player for first. I was really confident in my sideboard for my Jund and aristocrats matches.
My only displeasure was act of treason. The past three Fnms it's been the only card to K.O. me, to the point where I feel like making room for Brave the elements
I did enjoy Chandra the two times I saw her. She stopped the only blocker the sliver player had for my baron. I'll be testing more and will post my tinkered deck Tuesday.
I think your deck is top heavy and you will have problems hitting lands drops 5 and 6. Also I think that sin collocter is very weak as a main deck card. Aurelia should be thundermaw hellkite and you should drop the returns because they compete for the same mana slots your finishers do. I would plus one land and four reckoners ,replace obzedat and aurelia with thundermaws, drop the collocters and returns.
Posted from MTGsalvation.com App for Android
for those interested in discussing the newer stuff and the future of the deck.
The part I'm worried about pre rotation is burning earth. My previous list ran 25 shocks/checks/non-basics - the entire land base.
Does anyone have a list I can reference that uses more basic lands? Because it seems as though Burning Earth shuts us/3-color-decks down.
EDIT: My old list
2 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
2 Olivia Voldaren
1 Angel of Serenity
2 Sire of Insanity
1 Assemble the Legion
2 Blasphemous Act
4 Dreadbore
3 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Searing Spear
2 Unburial Rites
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Clifftop Retreat
4 Godless Shrine
4 Isolated Chapel
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Duress
2 Purify the Grave
2 Wear // Tear
2 Crypt Incursion
3 Tribute to Hunger
2 Slaughter Games
2 Assemble the Legion
4 Blood Baron 3-4 Warleader's Helix and 3 Wear//Tear should be good enough for that match. My standard list is in my signature if you want to take a look. My roommate plays Red Aggro and we jam so many games it is stupid. The above set up goes a long ways in helping shore the match up when it comes to BE. I would say it is better than messing with an incredible mana base.
For those who have not been watching the Theros discussion thread, here is where my list is at with Theros.
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Sin Collector
3 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
2 Stormbreath Dragon
Legendary Creatures (1)
1 Aurelia, the Warleader
Enchantments (3)
3 Chained to the Rocks
Artifacts (1)
1 Haunted Plate Mail
Instants (9)
4 Magma Jet
2 Doom Blade
3 Warleader's Helix
Sorceries (9)
3 Thoughtseize
2 Dreadbore
2 Read the Bones
2 Rakdos's Return
4 Godless Shrine
4 Blood Crypt
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Temple of Silence
3 Temple of Triumph
1 Rakdos Guildgate
2 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Plains
2 Mutavault
1 Thoughtseize
3 Wear (Wear/Tear)
3 Anger the Gods
1 Dreadbore
1 Rakdos's Return
2 Duress
1 Blood Baron of Vizkopa
2 Pithing Needle
1 Sin Collector