It'll win pretty often with the same cards and in the same general fashion but i wouldn't trade rancor, unflinching courage and voice of resurgence for those cards. My 2 cents.
I like boros charm as the "anti supreme verdict card" and its other modes can be pretty useful. Gift of Orxhova also helps fly over Boros Reckoner (a card ive been having trouble with if I can't fly) in the aggro matchup unlike Courage. Just trying some new stuff out lol
True. I still think that Rest in Peace is the best graveyard hate.
I'm not fond of it in this deck. It prevents Rancor and Strangleroot Geist from coming back and doesn't give you a token if Voice of Resurgence dies. I'd rather play Ground Seal because it doesn't hurt us at all.
Truth be told Rest In Peace is a card I'd consider playing against this deck.
ground seal > rest in peace in our deck for sure... though I still prefer beckon apparition for gy hate if I sb any at all... depends where I play. I don't see a ton of rites lately..
on the whole fencing ace thing... there are just times when they don't have removal but still have a good hand. then their good hand loses on turn four to 20 dmg from a fencing ace...sometimes you get 2 for 1d the goal is to play around the 2 for1 his upside is still huge
I'm not fond of it in this deck. It prevents Rancor and Strangleroot Geist from coming back and doesn't give you a token if Voice of Resurgence dies. I'd rather play Ground Seal because it doesn't hurt us at all.
Truth be told Rest In Peace is a card I'd consider playing against this deck.
Umm, you get the Voice token. I am a big fan of RIP in the strangleroot-less builds. Just take out rancor (courage gives us trample possibility), and gives you an easy sideboard plan. =)
Umm, you get the Voice token. I am a big fan of RIP in the strangleroot-less builds. Just take out rancor (courage gives us trample possibility), and gives you an easy sideboard plan. =)
Considering the recent rise of RG Aggro, is it better to go Smiter/Strangleroot over Fencing Ace for now or is the consensus that Ace is just too good even with his vulnerability?
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Sig by ChibiSwan~!
"Well, well, if it isn't the most diabolical haters this side of the Mississippi." Alters and Commissions at [URL="noodlesndoodlesalters.tumblr.com/"]Noodles & Doodles Alters[/URL]!
Have a helicopter drop you off out front. Light your cigar with a small Indonesian boy holding a black lotus. Then bust out a craw wurm deck with no sleeves. Raw dog shuffle, loose terribly, flip the table, leave in a hovercraft.
Ugliest deck I faced was a bant control utilizing 8-10 fog spells. Lost the top8 round to a GR aggro deck who got just barely more lucky than I did in game 3. Topdeck mountain into hellrider for the win facing lethal next turn.
Love the deck...and really love what VoR and Unflinching Courage do for it.
Considering the recent rise of RG Aggro, is it better to go Smiter/Strangleroot over Fencing Ace for now or is the consensus that Ace is just too good even with his vulnerability?
VoR did plenty of work for me against aggro. Two blocks does about as much as Strangleroot can PLUS massive benefits. I definitely played 4x Smiters to help shore up defense. It's still a race...and ultimately I lost but I don't think the Aces would have done much. My 2 cents.
Thinking about increasing the number of fogs in sideboard considering how much work I saw it do at this last tournament...
ironically, rest in peace would have been better as i played 3 aristocrats in the swiss, and blood artist was their only way to stay in the game (my only loss in swiss was to one of them).
in the quarters i mulled to 5 and 4 respectively and had no hexproof dudes to slap pants on, leaving my voices open to getting exiled by fiend hunters vs junk rites.
alas, such is life. mending touch was really good, nearheath pilgrim and fog were great in the mirror, strangleroot geist was awesome out of the board as usual.
could potentially drop a sunpetal grove for a basic forest, but the mana base was awesome for me all day.
Not as good at SCG Nashville but we still had a top 20 placement up there. It's great to hear about those top8s.
I'm not gonna keep stating the same case over and over again but if you're playing Bant Aura and you run into a R/x aggro deck that beats you. And if your mainboard includes Fencing Ace instead of Strangleroot or Smiter then you're beating yourself as far as I'm concerned.
Interesting future news - there are rumbles that Theros might be enchantment themed. That could mean anything of course. Pillow Forts? Token generators?
Well I'm feeling optimistic about some sweet sweet auras. Hopefully M14 gives us at least 2 usable hexproof creatures so we don't have to abandon the plan when Innistrad rotates out.
Well I'm feeling optimistic about some sweet sweet auras. Hopefully M14 gives us at least 2 usable hexproof creatures so we don't have to abandon the plan when Innistrad rotates out.
I wouldn't hold out hope-- Wizards seems to have realized just how uninteractive/unfun hexproof can be and the player reaction from the actual cards themselves has been fairly negative, especially among casual players (whom Wizards seems intent on catering towards). Not to mention they have to very carefully consider how any new hexproof card they decide to print effects formats like Modern.
I'm not saying we're not going to see hexproof creatures in the future, but we probably won't see as many, and I doubt they'll be as aggressively undercosted in the future. Less Geist of Saint Traft and more Ascended Lawmage or Sigarda.
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Sig by ChibiSwan~!
"Well, well, if it isn't the most diabolical haters this side of the Mississippi." Alters and Commissions at [URL="noodlesndoodlesalters.tumblr.com/"]Noodles & Doodles Alters[/URL]!
Have a helicopter drop you off out front. Light your cigar with a small Indonesian boy holding a black lotus. Then bust out a craw wurm deck with no sleeves. Raw dog shuffle, loose terribly, flip the table, leave in a hovercraft.
The sideboard could have probably used a little more work, but the Strangleroot Geists definitely put in a TON of work. I didn't miss the graveyard hate because I never played against Junk Rites, and to be honest I don't even know if it's necessary because it already seems like a really good matchup.
I'm still learning a lot of the nuances of the deck, but I think I still played pretty well for it only being the second tournament I played with the deck.
Well, i'd mostly be interested in sideboard reasoning for each matchup you played, particularly curious about jund, as it looked like you sided in almost the entire thing
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Modern UWUW ControlUW UGWSpiritsUGW GHardened ScalesG WGRUKiki PodWGRU [RIP]
The sideboard could have probably used a little more work, but the Strangleroot Geists definitely put in a TON of work. I didn't miss the graveyard hate because I never played against Junk Rites, and to be honest I don't even know if it's necessary because it already seems like a really good matchup.
I'm still learning a lot of the nuances of the deck, but I think I still played pretty well for it only being the second tournament I played with the deck.
Congrats, solid modo list and pretty smooth sailing versus Jund there in the finals.
What do you think about taking smiters out of the main and running strangleroot instead? I was running almost the same build and I sided them in just about every matchup.
The sideboard could have probably used a little more work, but the Strangleroot Geists definitely put in a TON of work. I didn't miss the graveyard hate because I never played against Junk Rites, and to be honest I don't even know if it's necessary because it already seems like a really good matchup.
I'm still learning a lot of the nuances of the deck, but I think I still played pretty well for it only being the second tournament I played with the deck.
Nick - Will you please tell us your sideboard strategy (as in what you took out and then added) versus Bant Flash, Control Jund, Naya Humans and RG aggro?
Nick - Will you please tell us your sideboard strategy (as in what you took out and then added) versus Bant Flash, Control Jund, Naya Humans and RG aggro?
I think you mean Bant Hexproof. I don't see a Bant Flash matchup.
Is a consensus emerging as to the number/choice of Loxodon Smiter, Fencing Ace and Voice of Resurgence? It seems that most people seems to favor 4 Smiter/Voice and no Ace. What do the more experienced players (with this deck) think? Is Ace's time done?
Also: For the rest of the standard PTQ season, would it be smart to play 2-3 Sundering Growths in the sideboard? Looking at the states top 8 decklists, it looks like this deck is significantly rising in popularity...
The only consensus is that we all have either 4 strangleroot or 4 voice mainboard.
The remaining creatures vary but most MODO versions that have 4-0'd dailys recently have run 4 smiters main whereas paper magic most top 16s have run 4 fencing ace main. Honestly I don't think there's a definitive best choice, it all depends on the player. Fencing ace is for players who can stomach more risk and like to gamble, smiter is for the opposite kind of player. I myself prefer 7-8 resilient creatures between Strangleroot/VoR and alternate sources of doublestrike (Silverblade/Ajani).
I'd say here's the best way to decide based on your expected meta: Aggro -> Smiters Control/UWR Midrange/Jund Midrange -> 4 more Strangleroots/Voice Reanimator / Bant Auras -> Fencing Ace
Sundering growth is not as good as ray of revelation or Fog in the mirror IMO.
Thought you'd all like to know. I took down WY States with this deck as well. (same list that took 4th at SCG: Char.).
I'd agree with Bonerfleximus' assessment on the Ace vs. S.Geist vs. Smiter question. I ran Ace because there was a lot of Necra-Rites players there; though I only faced it twice. In all the other matches I board swapped S.Geist in and Ace out.
Simic Charm was very weak for me, though a likely necessity with Ace maindeck. Going forward I'll likely be on S.Geist main instead and probably turn the Simic Charms into something else (unsure on what yet... Smiter, Gift, Rootborn, and Rupture are my current considerations).
With S.Geist main (and no reason to board Ace) that frees up more board space. Over the course of States, for me, Nevermore was lackluster and Ground Seal was useful but may not be necessary, however it does cantrip. Negate was alright but I think I'd prefer Rupture going forward. Fog was HUGE and I can definitely see fitting in a third if there's a far amount of aggro or mirrors in a future tournament. I'd also like to fit in Rootborn too.
Those are my thoughts so far. I'll try and add more when I'm not at work.
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“Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new.”
― Albert Einstein
Thought you'd all like to know. I took down WY States with this deck as well. (same list that took 4th at SCG: Char.).
I'd agree with Bonerfleximus' assessment on the Ace vs. S.Geist vs. Smiter question. I ran Ace because there was a lot of Necra-Rites players there; though I only faced it twice. In all the other matches I board swapped S.Geist in and Ace out.
Simic Charm was very weak for me, though a likely necessity with Ace maindeck. Going forward I'll likely be on S.Geist main instead and probably turn the Simic Charms into something else (unsure on what yet... Smiter, Gift, Rootborn, and Rupture are my current considerations).
With S.Geist main (and no reason to board Ace) that frees up more board space. Over the course of States, for me, Nevermore was lackluster and Ground Seal was useful but may not be necessary, however it does cantrip. Negate was alright but I think I'd prefer Rupture going forward. Fog was HUGE and I can definitely see fitting in a third if there's a far amount of aggro or mirrors in a future tournament. I'd also like to fit in Rootborn too.
Those are my thoughts so far. I'll try and add more when I'm not at work.
Congratulations on your win! Way to represent.
Interesting observation there. In addition to my own arguments in favor of sroot over ace you point out that it frees up space in the sideboard too.
I like the cut of your jib.
So it seems that we've got more presence (and more winners) than ever. I should've been writing these wins down for the primer. Well i'll just have to catch up.
It's a bit like decorating a trophy room isn't it?
Hi all, new to the Bant Enchant but all in on the idea as I have a PTQ and 2 GPT's coming up very soon. Congrats to all winners this past weekend! I have one question, my list is very standard (including Voices) but I am waffling between Fencing Ace and Loxodon Smiter. I have tested both sides and as stated before, it really is match-up based.
My question though, is if I include the Fencing Aces, is it worth 1-2 Cavern of Souls in the mana base due to the large number of Humans? I say this as there is a good amount of control in my neck of the woods. Thoughts? Thanks in advance for any and all input!
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LMAC
Decks I am playing:
taking suggestions (Legacy)
Elf Company GW (Modern)
Abbot Aggro R (Standard)
Maralen of the Mornsong B(Commander)
It'll win pretty often with the same cards and in the same general fashion but i wouldn't trade rancor, unflinching courage and voice of resurgence for those cards. My 2 cents.
Truth be told Rest In Peace is a card I'd consider playing against this deck.
on the whole fencing ace thing... there are just times when they don't have removal but still have a good hand. then their good hand loses on turn four to 20 dmg from a fencing ace...sometimes you get 2 for 1d the goal is to play around the 2 for1 his upside is still huge
Umm, you get the Voice token. I am a big fan of RIP in the strangleroot-less builds. Just take out rancor (courage gives us trample possibility), and gives you an easy sideboard plan. =)
"10/1/2012 While Rest in Peace is on the battlefield, abilities that trigger whenever a creature dies won’t trigger because cards and tokens never reach a player’s graveyard."
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=277995
Sig by ChibiSwan~!
"Well, well, if it isn't the most diabolical haters this side of the Mississippi."
Alters and Commissions at [URL="noodlesndoodlesalters.tumblr.com/"]Noodles & Doodles Alters[/URL]!
Carried the usual core with these in the extra slots:
4 - voice of resurgence
2 - ajani, caller of the pride
4 - Loxodon Smiter
Also went down to 3x Unflinching Courage
Ugliest deck I faced was a bant control utilizing 8-10 fog spells. Lost the top8 round to a GR aggro deck who got just barely more lucky than I did in game 3. Topdeck mountain into hellrider for the win facing lethal next turn.
Love the deck...and really love what VoR and Unflinching Courage do for it.
VoR did plenty of work for me against aggro. Two blocks does about as much as Strangleroot can PLUS massive benefits. I definitely played 4x Smiters to help shore up defense. It's still a race...and ultimately I lost but I don't think the Aces would have done much. My 2 cents.
Thinking about increasing the number of fogs in sideboard considering how much work I saw it do at this last tournament...
4 breeding pool
4 hallowed fountain
4 hinterland harbor
3 sunpetal grove
2 glacial fortress
4 avacyn's pilgrim
4 fencing ace
4 invisible stalker
4 voice of resurgence
4 geist of saint traft
4 rancor
4 spectral flight
4 ethereal armor
4 unflinching courage
4 strangleroot geist
3 fog
3 mending touch
3 nearheath pilgrim
2 ground seal
ironically, rest in peace would have been better as i played 3 aristocrats in the swiss, and blood artist was their only way to stay in the game (my only loss in swiss was to one of them).
in the quarters i mulled to 5 and 4 respectively and had no hexproof dudes to slap pants on, leaving my voices open to getting exiled by fiend hunters vs junk rites.
alas, such is life. mending touch was really good, nearheath pilgrim and fog were great in the mirror, strangleroot geist was awesome out of the board as usual.
could potentially drop a sunpetal grove for a basic forest, but the mana base was awesome for me all day.
I'm not gonna keep stating the same case over and over again but if you're playing Bant Aura and you run into a R/x aggro deck that beats you. And if your mainboard includes Fencing Ace instead of Strangleroot or Smiter then you're beating yourself as far as I'm concerned.
Interesting future news - there are rumbles that Theros might be enchantment themed. That could mean anything of course. Pillow Forts? Token generators?
Well I'm feeling optimistic about some sweet sweet auras. Hopefully M14 gives us at least 2 usable hexproof creatures so we don't have to abandon the plan when Innistrad rotates out.
I wouldn't hold out hope-- Wizards seems to have realized just how uninteractive/unfun hexproof can be and the player reaction from the actual cards themselves has been fairly negative, especially among casual players (whom Wizards seems intent on catering towards). Not to mention they have to very carefully consider how any new hexproof card they decide to print effects formats like Modern.
I'm not saying we're not going to see hexproof creatures in the future, but we probably won't see as many, and I doubt they'll be as aggressively undercosted in the future. Less Geist of Saint Traft and more Ascended Lawmage or Sigarda.
Sig by ChibiSwan~!
"Well, well, if it isn't the most diabolical haters this side of the Mississippi."
Alters and Commissions at [URL="noodlesndoodlesalters.tumblr.com/"]Noodles & Doodles Alters[/URL]!
Here's the list I played. It's fairly stock, nothing terribly exciting:
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Invisible Stalker
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Ethereal Armor
4 Rancor
2 Simic Charm
4 Spectral Flight
4 Unflinching Courage
2 Forest
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Hinterland Harbor
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Temple Garden
2 Fog
3 Nearheath Pilgrim
2 Negate
2 Rootborn Defenses
2 Selesnya Charm
4 Strangleroot Geist
The sideboard could have probably used a little more work, but the Strangleroot Geists definitely put in a TON of work. I didn't miss the graveyard hate because I never played against Junk Rites, and to be honest I don't even know if it's necessary because it already seems like a really good matchup.
I'm still learning a lot of the nuances of the deck, but I think I still played pretty well for it only being the second tournament I played with the deck.
Matchups:
R1 - UWR Midrange (won 2-0) (1-0)
R2 - Rb Aggro (lost 0-2) (1-1)
R3 - Jund Midrange (won 2-1) (2-1)
R4 - Junk Aggro/Midrange (won 2-1) (3-1)
R5 - Jund Midrange (won 2-0) (4-1)
R6 - Naya Ramp (won 2-0) (5-1)
R7 - Naya Blitz (won 2-1) (6-1)
R8 - UWR Midrange (won 2-0) (7-1)
R9 - Bant Hexproof (won 2-1) (8-1)
QF - Jund Midrange (won 2-1) (9-1)
SF - Esper Control (won 2-1) (10-1)
Finals - Jund Midrange (won 2-1) (11-1) (game 3, which starts at around 24:20 or so, is particularly amusing)
UWUW ControlUW
UGWSpiritsUGW
GHardened ScalesG
WGRUKiki PodWGRU [RIP]
Congrats, solid modo list and pretty smooth sailing versus Jund there in the finals.
What do you think about taking smiters out of the main and running strangleroot instead? I was running almost the same build and I sided them in just about every matchup.
BOOOOOOOOOOOYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But seriously - I'm excited. Thanks for representing.
I think you mean Bant Hexproof. I don't see a Bant Flash matchup.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
The only consensus is that we all have either 4 strangleroot or 4 voice mainboard.
The remaining creatures vary but most MODO versions that have 4-0'd dailys recently have run 4 smiters main whereas paper magic most top 16s have run 4 fencing ace main. Honestly I don't think there's a definitive best choice, it all depends on the player. Fencing ace is for players who can stomach more risk and like to gamble, smiter is for the opposite kind of player. I myself prefer 7-8 resilient creatures between Strangleroot/VoR and alternate sources of doublestrike (Silverblade/Ajani).
I'd say here's the best way to decide based on your expected meta:
Aggro -> Smiters
Control/UWR Midrange/Jund Midrange -> 4 more Strangleroots/Voice
Reanimator / Bant Auras -> Fencing Ace
Sundering growth is not as good as ray of revelation or Fog in the mirror IMO.
I'd agree with Bonerfleximus' assessment on the Ace vs. S.Geist vs. Smiter question. I ran Ace because there was a lot of Necra-Rites players there; though I only faced it twice. In all the other matches I board swapped S.Geist in and Ace out.
Simic Charm was very weak for me, though a likely necessity with Ace maindeck. Going forward I'll likely be on S.Geist main instead and probably turn the Simic Charms into something else (unsure on what yet... Smiter, Gift, Rootborn, and Rupture are my current considerations).
With S.Geist main (and no reason to board Ace) that frees up more board space. Over the course of States, for me, Nevermore was lackluster and Ground Seal was useful but may not be necessary, however it does cantrip. Negate was alright but I think I'd prefer Rupture going forward. Fog was HUGE and I can definitely see fitting in a third if there's a far amount of aggro or mirrors in a future tournament. I'd also like to fit in Rootborn too.
Those are my thoughts so far. I'll try and add more when I'm not at work.
― Albert Einstein
-Shane
Don Juan Quixote on MTGO
Congratulations on your win! Way to represent.
Interesting observation there. In addition to my own arguments in favor of sroot over ace you point out that it frees up space in the sideboard too.
I like the cut of your jib.
So it seems that we've got more presence (and more winners) than ever. I should've been writing these wins down for the primer. Well i'll just have to catch up.
It's a bit like decorating a trophy room isn't it?
the unsummon effect is underwhelming on paper but in practice it can get you out of sticky situations that another card would not.
Yeah i was really surprised how much i used unsummon when i started running simic charm.
My question though, is if I include the Fencing Aces, is it worth 1-2 Cavern of Souls in the mana base due to the large number of Humans? I say this as there is a good amount of control in my neck of the woods. Thoughts? Thanks in advance for any and all input!
Decks I am playing:
taking suggestions (Legacy)
Elf Company GW (Modern)
Abbot Aggro R (Standard)
Maralen of the Mornsong B(Commander)
honestly fencing ace is and will always be prolly our best carry IF HE DOESNT GET REMOVED.
caverns wont really help him that much... its not him being countered were worried about its removal/azorius charm he gets rocked by.
I am a firm believer in sgeist and smiters/voice from here on out... I win the same games without ace I woulda won with him