Thanks for the feedback! I may try going down a tracker and up a troll, we'll see. I also totally agree with you on Abrupt Decay. I tossed one in over a slip, and have since dumped another slip for a 2nd. I may drop slips all together and toss 3 in MB.
I'm also really looking forward to hearing your findings on Experiment One. I personally found the card to be way too inconsistant and quirky for my liking. Also late game I almost never mind seeing an Arbor Elf, Ulvenwald, or Deathrite, but Experiment One is like the worst top deck ever. That said, because you mainboard Deathrite, you may have more success... having success with him. You do also make a good point on regen. I may give him another go if I hear others taking a liking to him, as he does have good synergy also with Increasing Savagery and Scavenge effects with his regen ability. Also don't forget that when a Geist comes back with undying, it evolves him as well!
Also please please report back on how devour flesh works out for you. That's another one at the top of my 'evaluate soon' list.
Lastly, I encourage you to give 1 or 2 copies of Deadly Allure a shot, MB or SB. Maybe in the place of devour flesh until it becomes available? This card has been surprisingly effective for me and I'd love to hear how it fares for others as well.
I will give Deadly Allure a shot on MTGO later tonight, I will let you know what I find. I'm not sure how I feel about the card to be honest. I feel the same away about it as I do Prey Upon and Pit Fight, which you can find here:
I could see how it could possibly help you get through the last points of damage against an opponent, but I would just rather play another HasteGuy and/or Rancor and/or straight up removal. It feels a little to cute for me, lol.
you will see that it currently makes up 3% of the "winning" Meta (really curious of what percentage it makes up of all decks, probably less then 1% is my guess, which would make this a very successful archetype).
So far, it's been pretty solid, but there's a few issues: I can't really beat a Terminus into Tamiyo (which has come up a few times), and I can't reliably stabilize against fast aggro (Rakdos, with Boros and Gruul coming up soon).
Ulvenwald Tracker in the main has been really nice, but he usually eats removal pretty fast, being one of the few worthwhile targets for it. Nonetheless, he's repeated removal, given the opportunity to get online.
Wolfir Avenger's come in for Vampire Nighthawk, which I was having too much trouble casting. He's nice, but I haven't gotten any really good chances to use him yet. Theoretically, though, he's removal and resilient.
Dreg Mangler's been pretty good, with Haste, but I think I may want a bigger creature or something in that slot. Maybe Vorapede or Deadbridge Goliath. Corpsejack Menace might even be nice.
I frequently find myself wishing I had more removal, though. Dead Weight, maybe, or possibly as a replacement for Tragic Slip. Garruk Relentless should probably have a spot, in that regard.
Maybe some card draw, to avoid gassing out would be nice, so maybe [CARD}Garruk, Primal Hunter[/CARD], instead? Could probably afford to cut a few lands to make spaces.
Out of the sideboard, Deathrite comes in for the grindier games against midrange and control, Duress for much the same (maybe Appetite for Brains to hit Thragtusk?), Knight against white based aggro, Sever against Undying and Lingering Souls, and Ranger's Guile for decks that have bounce or Oblivion Ring.
So, thoughts? That was a little TLDR, but I really enjoy this deck, and I'd like to see it become really good. So, thanks for the advice, in advance.
I am taking this list to FNM tomorrow at a different store then I usually attend. There are quite a few G/W Humans there. Any advice to tweaking the deck or sideboard for this matchup?
I do like Traqic Slip, but I feel it is more of an sideboard card for the mirror and a very niche card.
But how often do you have morbid? Surely it's at least somewhat frequent, in which case it kills almost anything in the format for a single mana. But I do agree that Abrupt should be the first removal.
For land count as someone mentioned, 22 seems fine for decks without that many 4 drops, especially with arbor elfs.
I am taking this list to FNM tomorrow at a different store then I usually attend. There are quite a few G/W Humans there. Any advice to tweaking the deck or sideboard for this matchup?
First thing is you want 4x Arbor Elf, period. It helps with explosive starts and makes the deck way more consistent. And with Rancor, Revenge of the Hunted, and Scavenge, he will always have value. At worst, you pitch him to Lotleth Troll to deal that last point of damage to an opponent (I've done it multiple times).
Second, against G/W Humans, it is a good idea to have Tragic Slip to take out their first turn Avacyn's Pilgrim or Champion of the Parish. It is also good against Mayor of Avabruck. Another card I would recommend would be Abrupt Decay because that handles anything they play. Maybe take out the Death Winds for them? Ranger's Guile might be better in the sideboard if you are expecting a lot of G/W Humans, with more removal and/or creatures in the maindeck (Ranger's Guile is way better against Control/Mid-Range/Tempo decks). I have been thinking about siding in Duress for this matchup because Faith's Shield can be a blowout sometimes. Ulvenwald Tracker is very good in this matchup. Ultimate Price is superior to Death Wind, mostly because their creatures grow very quickly which makes Death Wind uncastable.
Overall though, I think that the G/W Human matchup is very winnable.
EDIT: In regards to Tragic Slip, I agree that it is still a relevant card, which is why I am making it a sideboard card. I think that Abrupt Decay is the far superior card right now, so we agree there. Another nice thing is that Abrupt Decay can kill Ravager of the Fells and Garruk, the Veil-Cursed, which is very relevant right now.
Sorry LamarAtl, I just couldn't figure out what I wanted to drop for Deadly Allure while playing tonight. I think this deck is about as tight as it gets at the moment. Here is what I was playing tonight (to some pretty good succes I might add):
I am thinking that I might go 3x Ultimate Price and 3x Abrupt Decay in the main deck, with one of each in the sideboard as well. They are the just so good right now. I love siding out the 4x Rancor against RDW for the Tragic Slips and Abrupt Decays. Once Experiment One hits the deck on MTGO, we have our better version of Rackdos Cackler (can grow bigger, can block, can regenerate) to replace Ulvenwald Tracker. And Deathrite Shaman can block Stromkirk Noble all day long, which is awesome. After boarding, I feel like our weakest card is Strangleroot Geist because they have Pillar of Flame, which is fine with me. With how tuff our other creatures our (they can't touch Predator Ooze at all, other then with Threaten effects), I'm liking this matchup more and more the more I play it.
I guess that can be said for any matchup though. Depending on the draw, this deck can play just about any role it needs to. Just tonight alone I felt like I played a pure aggro deck (winning multiple times on turn 5/6), a mid-range deck (sided in all my removal and played defense until I could get my superior creatures online), and a grindy control deck (sided out all my removal for discard, used my tuff guys to eat away at their life total, then let my late game Deathrite Shamans finish them off). I am loving this deck more and more.
No worries man. At a glance, I auto-magically applaud your decision for 4 trackers MB. I'm at 3 and the 4th is an always-pressing decision, because they've been monsters for me. At worst they're removal bait, and therefore keep my Arbor and other baddies alive (which for my decklist is super relevant with the savagery), and at best they're removal on a stick.
That said, if you're going 3-4 MB Trackers... man.. they make Allure even that much more (pun intended) alluring. Allure _anything_ and activate tracker... the only better similar combo in standard right now is Nightshade Peddler and Izzet Staticaster! Even still, because of flashback you can 2x tracker + deathtouch, which makes your tracker a deal-with-me-now card and all your other threats (which are still major threats) uber lower priority.
I just really can't rave enough about allure. It looks bad on paper (again, pun intended), but it's a monster.
PS - I assume 3x tribute immediately turns into 3x devour when gtc hits mtgo?
PPS - This is why I play (mods may ban me on the spot) cockatrice instead, too bad you're not on there or we'd duel.
Sorry LamarAtl, I just couldn't figure out what I wanted to drop for Deadly Allure while playing tonight. I think this deck is about as tight as it gets at the moment. Here is what I was playing tonight (to some pretty good succes I might add):
I am thinking that I might go 3x Ultimate Price and 3x Abrupt Decay in the main deck, with one of each in the sideboard as well. They are the just so good right now. I love siding out the 4x Rancor against RDW for the Tragic Slips and Abrupt Decays. Once Experiment One hits the deck on MTGO, we have our better version of Rackdos Cackler (can grow bigger, can block, can regenerate) to replace Ulvenwald Tracker. And Deathrite Shaman can block Stromkirk Noble all day long, which is awesome. After boarding, I feel like our weakest card is Strangleroot Geist because they have Pillar of Flame, which is fine with me. With how tuff our other creatures our (they can't touch Predator Ooze at all, other then with Threaten effects), I'm liking this matchup more and more the more I play it.
I guess that can be said for any matchup though. Depending on the draw, this deck can play just about any role it needs to. Just tonight alone I felt like I played a pure aggro deck (winning multiple times on turn 5/6), a mid-range deck (sided in all my removal and played defense until I could get my superior creatures online), and a grindy control deck (sided out all my removal for discard, used my tuff guys to eat away at their life total, then let my late game Deathrite Shamans finish them off). I am loving this deck more and more.
Have you played any Scheduled events or 8man's with the list above? My list is down to 25 creatures and it has been under performing across the board.
I've reported a few tournament results now. I think my main 60 is perfect for my liking, but I'm still not sure on my sideboard.
After playing that 6-round tournament on Wednesday and having to face some sort of mixture of five red-aggro decks in a row, it looks like my meta really likes red dudes and turning them sideways... whether it's GR Aggro, Boros Aggro, Naya Zoo, Zombies, what-have you.
So what would a sideboard look like for a fast-hitting meta?
My biggest concern was the RG list that's getting pushed. The ability to toss out 2 Burning-Tree Emissary into yet another creature is tempo that is sometimes too quick for us. We can catch up most games unless they slam down Hellrider a turn or two later.
Tested a version similar to this last night and found that tutoring with Garruk was very powerful. Infact won a game for me. I kind of like the SB, however I think that using something more along the lines of Kibler's SB would be better against control.
Also Silklash Spider. If you can tutor for it with Garruk, you can gain some advantage against your opponent's fliers. I love the idea of Plummet to deal with fliers, really brilliant.
I didn't quite like Deathrite in testing last night. Though the shaman did keep me alive for a bit of the game, it felt awkward. Could be a lack of practice with the card.
Anyways I like the creature heavy version, it feels like there is consistently more pressure on one's opponent. Which is a feeling my friend said when I played the similar mono-green Fight Club deck last Standard. Knowing that I'm making my opponent sweat is good. Means they're more likely to make a mistake I can pounce on.
Oh the land... it was weird, the paper version (which I spilled scotch on today =[ ), was nearly flooding me during testing. However online it felt like I was always mana screwed.
Tested a version similar to this last night and found that tutoring with Garruk was very powerful. Infact won a game for me. I kind of like the SB, however I think that using something more along the lines of Kibler's SB would be better against control.
Also Silklash Spider. If you can tutor for it with Garruk, you can gain some advantage against your opponent's fliers. I love the idea of Plummet to deal with fliers, really brilliant.
I didn't quite like Deathrite in testing last night. Though the shaman did keep me alive for a bit of the game, it felt awkward. Could be a lack of practice with the card.
Anyways I like the creature heavy version, it feels like there is consistently more pressure on one's opponent. Which is a feeling my friend said when I played the similar mono-green Fight Club deck last Standard. Knowing that I'm making my opponent sweat is good. Means they're more likely to make a mistake I can pounce on.
Oh the land... it was weird, the paper version (which I spilled scotch on today =[ ), was nearly flooding me during testing. However online it felt like I was always mana screwed.
I think that you are having land problems because you are running to many lands for the deck. I find that 22 is the best for me, but I think 23 would be best for you.
I wouldn't dismiss Deathrite Shaman so quickly. It has applications in every matchup. Against the mirror, it keeps Strangleroot Geist from coming back, get's rid of the Scavange guys, etc. Against other aggro decks it gains very important life (think of it like Thragtusk plus Restoration Angel), against control it act's like Cursed Scroll that always hits, and against the "combo" decks in Standard, it hoses the reanimation decks.
I agree that going heavy creature based is the way to go for this deck. We play some of the best, biggest, toughtest, and versatile creatures available in Standard.
Also, I wasn't able to make it to FNM tonight, which sucks. I'm going to go get the cards that I need to make the deck on MTGO and try to get into a tournament tonight or this weekend.
At least you didn't spill scotch on your cards then miss FNM because of it. I'm out an ounce or so and I'm buying a new set of Overgrown Tombs.
I feel that to bring in Deathrite Shaman would mean removing Garruk and Wolfir Silverheart. And I like being able to find an answer. Having 12 power hit the board is excellent. You can swing in with 4+, possibly with trample and then have another 8 kick around for blocks. Awesome stuff.
Though I am big on The Gate Keeper's list and the MB Revenge of the Hunted. Coming in over the top with huge damage and trample, especially on turn two... So much fun. I feel like that list could go a little more removal heavy, with Deathrites, Decays, etc. Use them as control elements, then sideboard in Duress, Guile and Appetite for control match ups.
I feel like Rock and Plague are about to combine in as one. But its almost better to say that Rock is the BBG version of the deck and Plague is GGB of the deck.
Actually, there is four BG decks that I think are viable right now. There is this deck, then there is "THE ROCK" deck which is a more midrange deck (with cards like Garruk, Primal Hunter and Wolfir Silverheart), a control deck that would use Mutilate, and of course BBG Zombies (which I think is very good with Abrupt Decay, Lotleth Troll, Dreg Mangler, and Rancor).
@Bran
How was plummet in the sideboard? Also were you able to get Silverheart out in the Jund match ups?
I think Revenge of the Hunted is what I'm testing in my next build. I remember from mono-green Fight Club that on turn two or three it really turned on the race.
@Bran
How was plummet in the sideboard? Also were you able to get Silverheart out in the Jund match ups?
I think Revenge of the Hunted is what I'm testing in my next build. I remember from mono-green Fight Club that on turn two or three it really turned on the race.
Also what were you siding the 1 Yeva in for?
Plummet worked very well infact it was the only answer I had for Olivia, between that and the Ranger's Guile he was really taken back....... Wolfir Silverheart was amazing I actually had to pair it with my Arbor Elf for the win last night..... The card I was most unhappy with was actually the Wolfir Avenger I now feel like he should be a sb card for control match ups, he just didnt do anything for me against aggro or midrange...... Every time I drew him I know I would have been better off had it been a Revenge of the Hunted , Wolfir Silverheart, or some sort of spot removal.... Infact I plan on dropping the 3x Avengers for 1x Revenge, 1x Abrupt Decay, 1x Tragic Slip....... But I was very very happy with the way the deck played...... Nobody expected Revenge, or the Silverheart
@Bran
How was plummet in the sideboard? Also were you able to get Silverheart out in the Jund match ups?
I think Revenge of the Hunted is what I'm testing in my next build. I remember from mono-green Fight Club that on turn two or three it really turned on the race.
Also what were you siding the 1 Yeva in for?
Im sorry I didnt see the Yeva question.... I use Yeva against mostly UW, Bant, or Esper Control matchups where I must worry about their board sweepers such as Terminus and Supreme Verdict. I would cast her and the Avengers at the end of their turn, and either Rancor, or Revenge of the Hunted and swing for some big dmg on my turn.....
I cut almost all of the Tragic Slips; it was hard to trigger Morbid when I wanted consistently, and Abrupt Decay kills almost all the same stuff and hits Oblivion Ring, which has been the bane of Predator Ooze. I'm playing a fairly removal heavy list; largely because I always feel like I need more removal. Could be that's where I'm wrong though, and I actually need more creatures and worry just about beating out fast aggro with quality, rather than removal?
I'm thinking of trying out Devour Flesh/Tribute to Hunter in the SB, probably over Sever the Bloodline. Blind Obedience seems like it could be really good against fast aggro decks as well. And Garruk Relentless could count as both removal and creature generation, but I see a lot of lists not running him. Thoughts?
Im just curious on how you feel about the Avenger.... Because after last night Im just not a fan of him in the main deck..... Seems like if you can play him on T3 there is always something else you would rather play such as the Dreg Mangler, or the Ooze or pretty much any of your 1 or 2 drops..... Im just not seeing his value at the moment outside the sideboard that is.
Wolfir Avenger's been pretty solid against aggro decks, in that he's basically a three mana removal spell that's sometimes also a creature. I almost always board him out against more midrange or control decks, so I think that he could probably be better- Deadbridge Goliath or maybe Corpsejack Menace could be nice for that spot.
Wolfir Avenger's been pretty solid against aggro decks, in that he's basically a three mana removal spell that's sometimes also a creature. I almost always board him out against more midrange or control decks, so I think that he could probably be better- Deadbridge Goliath or maybe Corpsejack Menace could be nice for that spot.
Wow Im just not sure then lol.... I hated having him against Aggro or Midrange..... Though in my deck Im trying to go over the top with dmg....so maybe it just doesnt fit my needs
The deck can start quickly, and if it doesn't get the quick win can sit back on a stack of 3 power dudes. Inquisitor's Flail + Trample + Haste means that you can from absolutely nowhere, and this does actually get you a fair few games.
I've been testing Pit Fight lately, and it's been pretty solid as extra removal in the SB. Bringing it in against Aggro, and letting Predator Ooze eat Stromkirk Nobles et al. Been liking it better than Devour Flesh so far, but I haven't come up against Geist decks much lately, either.
I've been testing Pit Fight lately, and it's been pretty solid as extra removal in the SB. Bringing it in against Aggro, and letting Predator Ooze eat Stromkirk Nobles et al. Been liking it better than Devour Flesh so far, but I haven't come up against Geist decks much lately, either.
But I dont understand why you would give pit fight a spot when you should already have pit fight with legs aka Ulvenwald Tracker, and the pit fight spot could be something better which would consist of pretty much anything (land, extra spot removal, some random card that you cant even play but might have nice flavor text or pretty artwork)....... I just dont get it
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I'm also really looking forward to hearing your findings on Experiment One. I personally found the card to be way too inconsistant and quirky for my liking. Also late game I almost never mind seeing an Arbor Elf, Ulvenwald, or Deathrite, but Experiment One is like the worst top deck ever. That said, because you mainboard Deathrite, you may have more success... having success with him. You do also make a good point on regen. I may give him another go if I hear others taking a liking to him, as he does have good synergy also with Increasing Savagery and Scavenge effects with his regen ability. Also don't forget that when a Geist comes back with undying, it evolves him as well!
Also please please report back on how devour flesh works out for you. That's another one at the top of my 'evaluate soon' list.
Lastly, I encourage you to give 1 or 2 copies of Deadly Allure a shot, MB or SB. Maybe in the place of devour flesh until it becomes available? This card has been surprisingly effective for me and I'd love to hear how it fares for others as well.
G'luck at FNM!
Prey Upon/Pit Fight thoughts
I could see how it could possibly help you get through the last points of damage against an opponent, but I would just rather play another Haste Guy and/or Rancor and/or straight up removal. It feels a little to cute for me, lol.
I think that having a couple Tragic Slips at least in the sideboard is a good idea for against RDW (hitting Stromkirk Noble and Falkenrath Aristocrat is still really good) and Mana Dorks. It is very good against the Naya Human deck as well, killing Champion of the Parish and Mayor of Avabruck for one mana is very good.
Overall, it seems that this deck has been picking up steam lately. If you go to this website:
MTGO Meta Game
you will see that it currently makes up 3% of the "winning" Meta (really curious of what percentage it makes up of all decks, probably less then 1% is my guess, which would make this a very successful archetype).
Anyway, happy turning guys sideways!
Look for me on MTGO, sslater
Follow me on Twitter, @slatertheman
My youtube channel:https://www.youtube.com/user/sslater22710
4 x Dreg Mangler
4 x Lotleth Troll
4 x Predator Ooze
4 x Strangleroot Geist
3 x Ulvenwald Tracker
2 x Wolfir Avenger
4 x Rancor
3 x Tragic Slip
3 x Ultimate Price
13 x Forest
4 x Overgrown Tomb
4 x Woodland Cemetery
2 x Golgari Guildgate
3 x Deathrite Shaman
4 x Duress
3 x Knight of Infamy
2 x Sever the Bloodline
1 x Tragic Slip
2 x Ranger's Guile
So far, it's been pretty solid, but there's a few issues: I can't really beat a Terminus into Tamiyo (which has come up a few times), and I can't reliably stabilize against fast aggro (Rakdos, with Boros and Gruul coming up soon).
Ulvenwald Tracker in the main has been really nice, but he usually eats removal pretty fast, being one of the few worthwhile targets for it. Nonetheless, he's repeated removal, given the opportunity to get online.
Wolfir Avenger's come in for Vampire Nighthawk, which I was having too much trouble casting. He's nice, but I haven't gotten any really good chances to use him yet. Theoretically, though, he's removal and resilient.
Dreg Mangler's been pretty good, with Haste, but I think I may want a bigger creature or something in that slot. Maybe Vorapede or Deadbridge Goliath. Corpsejack Menace might even be nice.
I frequently find myself wishing I had more removal, though. Dead Weight, maybe, or possibly as a replacement for Tragic Slip. Garruk Relentless should probably have a spot, in that regard.
Maybe some card draw, to avoid gassing out would be nice, so maybe [CARD}Garruk, Primal Hunter[/CARD], instead? Could probably afford to cut a few lands to make spaces.
Out of the sideboard, Deathrite comes in for the grindier games against midrange and control, Duress for much the same (maybe Appetite for Brains to hit Thragtusk?), Knight against white based aggro, Sever against Undying and Lingering Souls, and Ranger's Guile for decks that have bounce or Oblivion Ring.
So, thoughts? That was a little TLDR, but I really enjoy this deck, and I'd like to see it become really good. So, thanks for the advice, in advance.
4 Predator Ooze
3 Wolfir Avenger
3 Dreg Mangler
3 Arbor Elf
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Lotleth Troll
Enchantments
4 Rancor
1 Tragic Slip
2 Ultimate Price
3 Revenge of the Hunted
2 Death Wind
3 Ranger's Guile
Lands
11 Forest
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
3 Golgari Guildgate
3 Duress
2 Golgari Charm
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Sever the Bloodline
2 Appetite for Brains
2 Mark of the Vampire
I am taking this list to FNM tomorrow at a different store then I usually attend. There are quite a few G/W Humans there. Any advice to tweaking the deck or sideboard for this matchup?
But how often do you have morbid? Surely it's at least somewhat frequent, in which case it kills almost anything in the format for a single mana. But I do agree that Abrupt should be the first removal.
For land count as someone mentioned, 22 seems fine for decks without that many 4 drops, especially with arbor elfs.
First thing is you want 4x Arbor Elf, period. It helps with explosive starts and makes the deck way more consistent. And with Rancor, Revenge of the Hunted, and Scavenge, he will always have value. At worst, you pitch him to Lotleth Troll to deal that last point of damage to an opponent (I've done it multiple times).
Second, against G/W Humans, it is a good idea to have Tragic Slip to take out their first turn Avacyn's Pilgrim or Champion of the Parish. It is also good against Mayor of Avabruck. Another card I would recommend would be Abrupt Decay because that handles anything they play. Maybe take out the Death Winds for them? Ranger's Guile might be better in the sideboard if you are expecting a lot of G/W Humans, with more removal and/or creatures in the maindeck (Ranger's Guile is way better against Control/Mid-Range/Tempo decks). I have been thinking about siding in Duress for this matchup because Faith's Shield can be a blowout sometimes. Ulvenwald Tracker is very good in this matchup. Ultimate Price is superior to Death Wind, mostly because their creatures grow very quickly which makes Death Wind uncastable.
Overall though, I think that the G/W Human matchup is very winnable.
EDIT: In regards to Tragic Slip, I agree that it is still a relevant card, which is why I am making it a sideboard card. I think that Abrupt Decay is the far superior card right now, so we agree there. Another nice thing is that Abrupt Decay can kill Ravager of the Fells and Garruk, the Veil-Cursed, which is very relevant right now.
Look for me on MTGO, sslater
Follow me on Twitter, @slatertheman
My youtube channel:https://www.youtube.com/user/sslater22710
4x Predator Ooze
4x Dreg Mangler
4x Strangleroot Geist
4x Lotleth Troll
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Arbor Elf
4x Ulvenwald Tracker
Enchantments - 4
4x Rancor
2x Abrupt Decay
4x Ultimate Price
Land - 22
4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Woodland Cemetery
1x Golgari Guildgate
3x Evolving Wilds
9x Forest
1x Swamp
3x Tribute to Hunger
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Ranger's Guile
2x Tragic Slip
3x Appetite for Brains
3x Duress
I am thinking that I might go 3x Ultimate Price and 3x Abrupt Decay in the main deck, with one of each in the sideboard as well. They are the just so good right now. I love siding out the 4x Rancor against RDW for the Tragic Slips and Abrupt Decays. Once Experiment One hits the deck on MTGO, we have our better version of Rackdos Cackler (can grow bigger, can block, can regenerate) to replace Ulvenwald Tracker. And Deathrite Shaman can block Stromkirk Noble all day long, which is awesome. After boarding, I feel like our weakest card is Strangleroot Geist because they have Pillar of Flame, which is fine with me. With how tuff our other creatures our (they can't touch Predator Ooze at all, other then with Threaten effects), I'm liking this matchup more and more the more I play it.
I guess that can be said for any matchup though. Depending on the draw, this deck can play just about any role it needs to. Just tonight alone I felt like I played a pure aggro deck (winning multiple times on turn 5/6), a mid-range deck (sided in all my removal and played defense until I could get my superior creatures online), and a grindy control deck (sided out all my removal for discard, used my tuff guys to eat away at their life total, then let my late game Deathrite Shamans finish them off). I am loving this deck more and more.
Look for me on MTGO, sslater
Follow me on Twitter, @slatertheman
My youtube channel:https://www.youtube.com/user/sslater22710
That said, if you're going 3-4 MB Trackers... man.. they make Allure even that much more (pun intended) alluring. Allure _anything_ and activate tracker... the only better similar combo in standard right now is Nightshade Peddler and Izzet Staticaster! Even still, because of flashback you can 2x tracker + deathtouch, which makes your tracker a deal-with-me-now card and all your other threats (which are still major threats) uber lower priority.
I just really can't rave enough about allure. It looks bad on paper (again, pun intended), but it's a monster.
PS - I assume 3x tribute immediately turns into 3x devour when gtc hits mtgo?
PPS - This is why I play (mods may ban me on the spot) cockatrice instead, too bad you're not on there or we'd duel.
Have you played any Scheduled events or 8man's with the list above? My list is down to 25 creatures and it has been under performing across the board.
After playing that 6-round tournament on Wednesday and having to face some sort of mixture of five red-aggro decks in a row, it looks like my meta really likes red dudes and turning them sideways... whether it's GR Aggro, Boros Aggro, Naya Zoo, Zombies, what-have you.
So what would a sideboard look like for a fast-hitting meta?
My biggest concern was the RG list that's getting pushed. The ability to toss out 2 Burning-Tree Emissary into yet another creature is tempo that is sometimes too quick for us. We can catch up most games unless they slam down Hellrider a turn or two later.
This is my current list.
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Predator Ooze
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Dreg Mangler
3 Wolfir Avenger
2 Deadbridge Goalith
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Rancor
3 Ultimate Price
2 Tragic Slip
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Revenge of the Hunted
4 Overgrown Tomb
3 Golgari Guildgate
2 Swamp
8 Swamp
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Golgari Charm
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Sever the Bloodline
2 Duress
2 Appetite for Brains
1 Garruk Relentless
I'm thinking maybe do some Devour Flesh in the side, and do +1 Tragic Slip and +1 Ultimate Price in the side as well?
ex-Moderator
Legacy love.
10 Forest
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Swamp
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Golgari Guildgate
Creatures
4 Arbor Elf
4 Ulvenwald Tracker
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Predator Ooze
4 Dreg Mangler
2 Wolfir Silverheart
4 Rancor
Spells
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Death Wind
2 Tragic Slip
2 Ultimate Price
Planeswalker
3 Garruk Relentless
3 Plummet
3 Ranger's Guile
3 Sever the Bloodline
1 Silklash Spider
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Ultimate Price
3 Tragic Slip
Tested a version similar to this last night and found that tutoring with Garruk was very powerful. Infact won a game for me. I kind of like the SB, however I think that using something more along the lines of Kibler's SB would be better against control.
Also Silklash Spider. If you can tutor for it with Garruk, you can gain some advantage against your opponent's fliers. I love the idea of Plummet to deal with fliers, really brilliant.
I didn't quite like Deathrite in testing last night. Though the shaman did keep me alive for a bit of the game, it felt awkward. Could be a lack of practice with the card.
Anyways I like the creature heavy version, it feels like there is consistently more pressure on one's opponent. Which is a feeling my friend said when I played the similar mono-green Fight Club deck last Standard. Knowing that I'm making my opponent sweat is good. Means they're more likely to make a mistake I can pounce on.
Oh the land... it was weird, the paper version (which I spilled scotch on today =[ ), was nearly flooding me during testing. However online it felt like I was always mana screwed.
I think that you are having land problems because you are running to many lands for the deck. I find that 22 is the best for me, but I think 23 would be best for you.
I wouldn't dismiss Deathrite Shaman so quickly. It has applications in every matchup. Against the mirror, it keeps Strangleroot Geist from coming back, get's rid of the Scavange guys, etc. Against other aggro decks it gains very important life (think of it like Thragtusk plus Restoration Angel), against control it act's like Cursed Scroll that always hits, and against the "combo" decks in Standard, it hoses the reanimation decks.
I agree that going heavy creature based is the way to go for this deck. We play some of the best, biggest, toughtest, and versatile creatures available in Standard.
I can't really see Plummet being the answer for this deck. There just isn't a huge number of fliers that worry us, and for the most part Ultimate Price handles the best ones. Sure, Olivia Voldaren is a problem, but I would rather make sure that I can kill Hellrider/Restoration Angel/Thundermaw Hellkite/Thragtusk with the same card. It would be really awkward to side in Plummet against GWx decks because of Restoration Angel/Angel of Serenity and them having Wolfir Silverheart/Thragtusk/Silverblade Paladin in play while you are griping Plummet. I could see going a little more Silklash Spider, but at that point the deck is creeping into "Mid-Range" style.
Duress and Appetite for Brains really needs to be in your sideboard some where.
Also, I wasn't able to make it to FNM tonight, which sucks. I'm going to go get the cards that I need to make the deck on MTGO and try to get into a tournament tonight or this weekend.
And LamarAtl, yes, the Tribute to Hunger will be Devour Flesh once I get them on MTGO.
Look for me on MTGO, sslater
Follow me on Twitter, @slatertheman
My youtube channel:https://www.youtube.com/user/sslater22710
I feel that to bring in Deathrite Shaman would mean removing Garruk and Wolfir Silverheart. And I like being able to find an answer. Having 12 power hit the board is excellent. You can swing in with 4+, possibly with trample and then have another 8 kick around for blocks. Awesome stuff.
Though I am big on The Gate Keeper's list and the MB Revenge of the Hunted. Coming in over the top with huge damage and trample, especially on turn two... So much fun. I feel like that list could go a little more removal heavy, with Deathrites, Decays, etc. Use them as control elements, then sideboard in Duress, Guile and Appetite for control match ups.
I feel like Rock and Plague are about to combine in as one. But its almost better to say that Rock is the BBG version of the deck and Plague is GGB of the deck.
Look for me on MTGO, sslater
Follow me on Twitter, @slatertheman
My youtube channel:https://www.youtube.com/user/sslater22710
Land ~
4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Woodland Cemetery
3x Golgari Guildgate
10x Forest
1x Swamp
22x Land
4x Arbor Elf
3x Ulvenwald Tracker
4x Strangleroot Geist
4x Lotleth Troll
3x Dreg Mangler
4x Predator Ooze
3x Wolfir Avenger
2x Wolfir Silverheart
27x Creatures
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Ultimate Price
3x Revenge of the Hunted
7x Spells
1x Yeva, Nature's Herald
3x Deathrite Shaman
3x Plummet
4x Ranger's Guile
4x Golgari Charm
15x Sideboard
This deck list got me a 6th place finish tonight in my FNM...... I lost in three games against Jund and both games I dropped were due to Olivia.....
How was plummet in the sideboard? Also were you able to get Silverheart out in the Jund match ups?
I think Revenge of the Hunted is what I'm testing in my next build. I remember from mono-green Fight Club that on turn two or three it really turned on the race.
Also what were you siding the 1 Yeva in for?
Plummet worked very well infact it was the only answer I had for Olivia, between that and the Ranger's Guile he was really taken back....... Wolfir Silverheart was amazing I actually had to pair it with my Arbor Elf for the win last night..... The card I was most unhappy with was actually the Wolfir Avenger I now feel like he should be a sb card for control match ups, he just didnt do anything for me against aggro or midrange...... Every time I drew him I know I would have been better off had it been a Revenge of the Hunted , Wolfir Silverheart, or some sort of spot removal.... Infact I plan on dropping the 3x Avengers for 1x Revenge, 1x Abrupt Decay, 1x Tragic Slip....... But I was very very happy with the way the deck played...... Nobody expected Revenge, or the Silverheart
Im sorry I didnt see the Yeva question.... I use Yeva against mostly UW, Bant, or Esper Control matchups where I must worry about their board sweepers such as Terminus and Supreme Verdict. I would cast her and the Avengers at the end of their turn, and either Rancor, or Revenge of the Hunted and swing for some big dmg on my turn.....
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Golgari Guildgate
13 Forest
Creatures
4 Arbor Elf
3 Ulvenwald Tracker
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Dreg Mangler
4 Predator Ooze
2 Wolfir Avenger
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Ultimate Price
4 Rancor
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Ranger's Guile
3 Duress
3 Appetite for Brains
2 Tragic Slip
2 Sever the Bloodline
I cut almost all of the Tragic Slips; it was hard to trigger Morbid when I wanted consistently, and Abrupt Decay kills almost all the same stuff and hits Oblivion Ring, which has been the bane of Predator Ooze. I'm playing a fairly removal heavy list; largely because I always feel like I need more removal. Could be that's where I'm wrong though, and I actually need more creatures and worry just about beating out fast aggro with quality, rather than removal?
I'm thinking of trying out Devour Flesh/Tribute to Hunter in the SB, probably over Sever the Bloodline. Blind Obedience seems like it could be really good against fast aggro decks as well. And Garruk Relentless could count as both removal and creature generation, but I see a lot of lists not running him. Thoughts?
Im just curious on how you feel about the Avenger.... Because after last night Im just not a fan of him in the main deck..... Seems like if you can play him on T3 there is always something else you would rather play such as the Dreg Mangler, or the Ooze or pretty much any of your 1 or 2 drops..... Im just not seeing his value at the moment outside the sideboard that is.
Wow Im just not sure then lol.... I hated having him against Aggro or Midrange..... Though in my deck Im trying to go over the top with dmg....so maybe it just doesnt fit my needs
4 Gravecrawler
4 Experiment One
3 Deathrite Shaman
Turn 2:
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Rancor
1 Inquistor's Flail
3 Abrupt Decay
Turn 2/3:
3 Lotleth Troll
4 Dreg Mangler
3 Liliana of the Veil
Turn 3/5:
3 Wolfir Avenger
Turn 4:
2 Garruk Relentless
Lands:
5 Swamp
8 Forest
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetry
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Corpsejack Menace
2 Duress
2 Appetite for Brains
2 Golgari Charm
3 Ultimate Price
1 Crushing Vines
I may need one more land main.
The deck can start quickly, and if it doesn't get the quick win can sit back on a stack of 3 power dudes. Inquisitor's Flail + Trample + Haste means that you can from absolutely nowhere, and this does actually get you a fair few games.
In terms of the sideboard:
Evolving Wilds if bringing in Corpsejack Menace while retaining Garruk Relentless
Deathrite Shaman & Tormod's Crypt against GY shenanigans of varying sorts.
Corpsejack Menace when having bigger creatures will be a good thing.
Duress nothing systematic
Appetite for Brains for 4 drop + fliers.
Golgari Charm for bant hexproof or against decks running rancor + silverblade.
Ultimate Price aggro decks or those with Thundermaw Hellkite
Crushing Vines for fliers
WRGBCombo MillWRGB
???
Modern:
UUWWErayo AffinityWWUU
WWGUEnchantress ControlUGWW
EDH:
GGBBGlissa MultiplayerBBGG
RRRRKazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs Land DestructionRRRR
But I dont understand why you would give pit fight a spot when you should already have pit fight with legs aka Ulvenwald Tracker, and the pit fight spot could be something better which would consist of pretty much anything (land, extra spot removal, some random card that you cant even play but might have nice flavor text or pretty artwork)....... I just dont get it