I dunno about all the hate for Wolfir Avenger - I like him over the Lotleth Troll and pretty much never find myself ditching creatures to Troll unless it's a late game scenario. I feel I'd rather have the Dreg Mangler or the Geist attacking that turn.
Still Troll's a 2/1 regen trample for 2cc, not that bad a two drop. You can ditch those annoying late game arbor elves and I have won a few games ditching a mangler and then scavenging for that extra 4 point of trample damage. I won't play less than 4 ooze and 4 Lotleth Trolls.
In my opinion, the reason Troll is so good is because he destroys a large part of the current meta.
He's super good against any red-based deck.
He's a resilient bear against everything else that can pitch cards when needed. What's not to love?
In my FNM two weeks ago, I constantly tapped out turn two with a Troll in play (if I had enough creatures in hand), trying to bait their Mortars/Spears. If they took the bait, it was pretty much GG.
Predator Ooze is also awesome.
edit: I think Avenger is more suited for lists with more non-creature spells, Troll for lists with 24+ creatures
I have been wondering myself about the possibility of red in interaction with the ooze but more in the sense of splashing red into the g/b deck. I only have a very rough sketch of a deck so critique is welcome and no fully thought out sideboard yet but here goes.
The idea is that with my G/B deck I really like it when I get that perfect hand of arbor elf, 3 lands, an Ooze and 2 Geists, but if I fall behind it is too damn hard to catch up. I feel like the Ghor-Clan Rampager and Kessig Wolf Run and Wolfir Silverheart give a bit of a boost when I fall behind in the midgame and just need a bit of an oomph to finish them off.
I like the idea of having both searing and spear and abrupt decay because a lot of the removal for creatures like ooze right now are o-rings and detention spehere's which abrupt decay takes care of as well as those annoying boros reckoners and loxodon smiters. Searing spear just seems so much more reliable to me now than any of the black removal as most players in my metagame play very few mono colored creates.
I am not completely sold on Revenge of the Hunted yet. Even with the extra mana ramp of gyre sage I feel like it is a dead card in my hand more often than not. On the other hand a card I just started testing out today is Deadly Allure with an Predator Ooze and Ulvenwald Tracker this card can decimate an opponents board for only 3 mana (4 if you flash it back for even more fun).
Anyways I am rambling now so let me know what you think.
I have been playing this deck online a bit and have some decent results. 2-1-1 in a Standard open. My loss was to some really bad hands that I had to paris and the proceeded in both games to draw land, land land… 2-0 in a couple of singles matchups and 2-1 in an eight man, basically losing to Humanimator 1-2 because I decided not to side in my Tormod’s Crypts and just went with 2 Shaman for GY hate.
I will be playing this deck tonight at FNM.
GB AGGRO stands a chance! I placed 5th out of 20 yesterday at an FNM, going 2-0 vs Naya midrandge and Gruul Aggro, as well as beating Bant control 2-1. Lost to Jund aggro, as well as Prime Speaker Bant. I did beat Jund aggro and Prime Speaker Bant in 1 casual game each. Will post deck-list later, when I find out how. I'm missing the Garruks, Abrupts, and Oozes. I think with the Oozes, and decays, GB can give Jund aggro a decent match up.
Do you guys find Garruk Relentless really better than just a removal spell that could exist in that spot, or a maindeck Ranger's Guile? I find that he is a bit of an awkward cost for 3 damage to something which may or may not keep him around. It seems like Garruk Primal Hunter would be better for the mid to late game stall outs, or a piece of removal would fill the spot the exact same way that it plays out the majority of the time?
Also, I always feel pretty nervous about going all in on Troll. Discarding late game arbor elves, sure, but I've generally felt that the other creature was going to be more advantageous as another body to deal with, especially if it was a haste creature. And an Azorius Charm just makes you feel even worse if you don't have Ranger's Guile to answer with somewhere in your 75.
Speaking of Ranger's Guile, because of the prevalence of Tragic Slips right now (I'm seeing Jund lists have 4 in the 75 and then it shows up elsewhere as well), and because of the fragility of Ulvenwald Tracker, I am thinking about maindecking them. I've seen some lists here where they are, how has that worked out for you guys? I think it's also super valuable in other cases too for the Azorius Charms, Detention Spheres, Oblivion Rings, Olivia activations, Angel of Serenity board wipes.
What is the plan against Olivia? Hope to get a good tragic slip to happen? Board in Severs and get one?Appetite for Brains it away?
How are you guys doing against Naya Blitz? I think it's a tough matchup that becomes very close to unwinable at the first Frontline Medic. It makes me wish Ostracize was in the format alongside Duress and Appetite. I guess the key here is just Sever the Bloodline or GG?
Against the Rx variants, the gameplan is just stick a Tracker and go from there? I lost last night against a Rx deck after laying down one Tracker to get answered by a Reckoner, made a positive trade with an Ooze out, played a second only to see a second Reckoner and then he went over the top via Thundermaw.
Against Reanimator, I think that the strongest gameplan is a turn 1 Deathrite Shaman. More so than Tormod's Crypt even, I think the Deathrite is stronger because you can exile in response to their Unburial Rites choices and build a lot of momentum. The worst part though is that they can still just cast Angel of Serenity and that is a problem.
What is the Jund plan? I board in Duresses and Appetites for Brains and just try to get their Lilianas and Olivias and Rakdos Returns as all of that is bad news bears. Thragtusks are just annoying but they certainly buy the opponent enough time to get close to answers.
Is Triumph of Ferocity still playable when you don't expect a lot of Esper? I think it's a dead card in a lot of the midrange or control matchups, and I think that Primal Hunter might be better there because it can gum up the board or get a big card draw in. The 5 mana is hard a lot of games, but when they go long, I find myself flooding and that would be a good enough use during those games.
I'm not really a believer in Revenge of the Hunted yet, but I'm going to try it out because if it works moderately, then there's a 7/7 Arbor Elf that has to be blocked and if it works great then then Ooze is getting fed. Everything has a chance of bricking, so whatever.
I really like this deck and took 8th at an SCGIQ a couple weeks ago with it fairly untested, but currently I think that it doesn't go over your opponents head well enough into the unfair territory which makes it fairly weak, especially because the clock is ceaseless but not blazing fast. I'm just looking for some more information about our matchups.
Play to win. If you don't, you're disrespecting everyone you're playing with by wasting their time. The Douchbag check is at the level of deck construction.
I know everyone hates Essence Harvest but seriously, test it out with Lotleth Troll and Predator Ooze.
I've never had one game, in over 30+ real ones and 60+ online ones, where they removed my creature in response. At first, Harvest looked so janky, but seriously just try it out. For me, it's always hit for at least 4, often six to nine, and has won so many otherwise unwinnable games.
Run Ranger's Guile! I run 3 MB, and 1 SB. Beat Bant control by turn 5. Lotleth, discarded 3-4 creatures on turn 3, rancor turn 4, wolfir turn 5 + ranger's guile. Pretty sure it went down like that, with maybe a giant growth somewhere in there. He was shocked.
Also, I always feel pretty nervous about going all in on Troll. Discarding late game arbor elves, sure, but I've generally felt that the other creature was going to be more advantageous as another body to deal with, especially if it was a haste creature. And an Azorius Charm just makes you feel even worse if you don't have Ranger's Guile to answer with somewhere in your 75.
You don't need to go all in with Troll, you just have to beat face and regen, yeah you really might need to run 4 Ranger's Guile in your 74 if you are running 4 Troll 4 Ooze if you want to go all in with troll maybe a list like this?
Garruk Relentless might save you a few lifepoints (and has helped me to win some matches because of that) , in addition to working as removal. But I'm thinking of putting Ranger's Guiles in mb instead. The amount of Azorius Charm's here alone warrant's that. If Predator Ooze or pumped Troll loses it's hard earned counters, the match becomes pretty difficult to win.
Why not run both? I can't imagine thoe decks running Azorius Charm not hating having a 2/2 wolf pop out every turn.
Garruk Relentless is definitely the late-game the deck needs. If I could be sure he'd retain value after rotation, I'd definitely go for at least 3 of him (I only buy cards that I'm SURE will be played once they're out of Standard, like Snapcaster or Cavern). I think next FNM I'm gonna borrow a couple to stick MD.
First off, I want to make it clear: I don't do the Predator Ooze/Tracker combo. Not that it's bad (in fact, it's solid) but the core of the deck, and how it wins, is hasty and/or resilient creatures. Ooze requiring GGG causes problems with the mana base, so even after I acquired four and added them to the deck, I chose to cut them and my standing hasn't suffered. Nightshade Peddler paired with a regen creature does the job just as well - or Deathtouch wolves made by Garruk!
One thing I added to my sideboard against control is Staff of Nin. High CMC? Yes. But Mutilate, Terminus, and Tragic Slip don't touch it (and all are VERY COMMON options in Esper now that I've started piloting this deck at my FNM!), it's constant value unlike Triumph of Ferocity, and it gives you late-game reach.
Recently, I also added Evolving Wilds and cut Arbor Elf, making the Deathrites maindeck - the Wilds aren't as great as fetchlands for fueling DRS's ramp ability, but do the job, and they can seriously help fix problems with the mana base. I got sick to death of Arbor Elf eating early removal and being near-dead topdecks.
And (this is more a local meta choice!) I put Knight of Infamy maindeck. White's popular right now, and it's always nice to have a double-scavenged KoI swing past someone's Sigarda... Seriously, if more people start playing Sigarda I'm SOOO sideboarding Silklash Spider. Or that new lens.
Ben I am curious, how much of an effect did the white splash have in your late game success? From what you actually posted you mentioned the success of wolfir and revenge and garruk, but how did the restoration angels and selesneya charms work? I am curious because I too am looking for a stronger mid-late game when I don't draw the perfect mana curve but was leaning towards red splashes.
It wins games on it's own
It's house against control
It kill things
More Importantly it kills Olivia, which just so happens to wreck this deck
It's a tutor for you uber combo (Tracker/Ooze), while still being a plansewalker
Tracker and Deathtouch wolves are awesome
It's ultimate more relevant than you think..
Chump blockers for dayz
Garruk does everything this deck could ever want..
Here's my issue with it though.
1: How will it win games by itself? A Restoration Angel kills him, and he can't do anything about it and that's just one thing. Predator Ooze wins games alone, if he's undisrupted and never interacted with. Yes, he's powerful, but I don't know if that's what power is needed.
2: Triumph is also house against control, Deathrite is house against control, our discard is house, etc etc. I don't think that the control matchup is awful. I think that Ranger's Guile is the better anti control card at that point because it directly answers their answers to our main wincon.
3 & 4: Ultimate Price, Tragic Slip, Sever the Bloodline, Pit Fight/Ulvenwald Tracker, and Abrupt Decay are all playable (except Pit Fight maybe) and they also kill things. Except Sever, they all cost less as well. Tracker is as weak to removal as Garruk feels. Everything, including Garruk, is one use. 3 damage where he can only take 2 doesn't do enough. It's too narrow to kill an Angel of Serenity, Thragtusk profitably, or Olivia, which is later a main point for you. If I see Olivia, I think I'd prefer to just use a Sever so I can flash it back when they down another one instead of just trade there.
5: I probably undervalue the tutor effect, but I've never seen it work. What are you sacrificing and when?
6: I agree, but I don't think it's the value generator that I want it to be because I don't think Garruk will last that long. But I agree, it could be amazing.
7: Do you think that because it was relevant for you in your last FNM you could be overvaluing it at the moment, or do you think it's really powerful and something that comes to play relatively often to the amount of times you cast him? I'm looking for probably better than 1/3 of the time here you're able to get to ultimate and it locks/wins the game right there.
Play to win. If you don't, you're disrespecting everyone you're playing with by wasting their time. The Douchbag check is at the level of deck construction.
5: I probably undervalue the tutor effect, but I've never seen it work. What are you sacrificing and when?
I have sacrificed arbor elves and wolf tokens for wolfir silverheart then proceded to win the game on a few occasions. Sure thee are better creature destruction spells out there, the thing about him is that he creates tokens AND fights creatures AND once in a while tutors for creatures AND occasionally does his overrun on rare occasions. He is of much utility.
After further play testing, I have refined my list and return seeking input.
Background:
I have been playing this deck since I bought the sealed deck at RtR when it came out. I hadn't played magic in a while, but rocked some NecropotenceIllusions of Grandeur decks back in the day. The deck had evolved to a very similar point with dead bridges, silver hearts and giant growth before I learned about a card called predator ooze. I've since acquired 4 and played them extensively, taking a record of 14-9. A large portion (5) of those losses came from a 2 week period of splashing red for Domri, Ghor Clan, Wolf Run, and Searing Spear. The deck was too inconsistent, plain and simple.
Geist/troll/mangler/ooze/rancor:
Core of the deck are these resilient, dangerous creatures and best aggressive enchantment ever. It's why I play the deck and the reason it shines, a simple shift in your pacing easily allows you shift between offense and defense. This versatility goes far.
Tracker: he fights and our stuff doesn't die. Allows for us to deal with creature based midrange, the decks hardest matchup in my opinion.
3 arbor elves:
I want one in my starting hand, but generally loathe to draw one. I cut a copy for a singleton garruk relentless. This may be incorrect and the substitution should be made for another card.
Silver heart/primal hunter: these draws will always help shift the tide, and keep your top decking interesting. This deck plays like aggro 1-2 turns slower but much stronger and with the trample to kill. With 23 land you can often cast these cards by turn 5-7, which is generally sufficient. If you're totally screwed by turn 7 you either overextended or are up against nasty midrange creatures, which is why it's our hardest matchup. Garruk can either fuel beasties or just refuel your tank, whatever is best. I board him out versus flying though.
Questions:
My board. I want to have spell flexibility versus control and a safeguard for reanimatior/flash. I also want to have some answers to midrange creatures such as Olivia, aristocrat, angels, boars, zegana bant, etc. currently this exists as sever, AfB and price. I would like soe of these spells to be in creature form though, because there are some matches where one of our creatures is simply terrible ( haste vs the 2 mana white enchantment, big 5 drops vs BTE flood, etc.).
The big reason for this is that again, I'm finding midrange aggro to be challenging. For me, some of the creatures that just run up against walls are worth removing in favor of something more appropriate, and my sideboard is 11 non-creatures. This makes large boarding in this situation very difficult, and it's the one situation where a large swap would be very beneficial. The remainder of our selection simply deals effectively with the diverse threats that exist. My task to you is to help me identify redundancy and fallacy in my decision making to best accent an already extremely strong deck. Assume an intelligent meta with ample resources and frequent competition.
2: Sure, Triumph is good against control, so is hand disruption - It just so happens Garruk is good again control, mid-range and aggro...
YES YES YES, Garruk is a swiss army knife, not on the JTMS level, but it destorys creatures, makes tokens and tutors creatures. It comes into play in a LOT of matchups
What prompted the choice maindeck Deathrite Shaman's? Is it more of a meta choice or do you find the strong enough to keep in and keep the speed for any matchup?
Having been playing Green Flash, or RUG flash, whatever you want to call it, Yeva is the real deal..
It does look like a lot of fun to me, I'm going crazy playing 4 CIPT (8 T1 and sometimes T2) lands and I would love to flash in a Vorapede EOT, then flash in a Silverheart after blocks are declared, or miracle/hard cast a Revenge of the Hunted. Really I just want to play a Vorapede in standard
I've been playing Golgari Aggro since just after RTR dropped, but just today I got myself 4x Loxodon Smiter and 3x Frontline Medic and they work so well with the deck. The 3 slot is slightly clogged though, so I'm thinking 3 of each and 3 Manglers, but I'm not sure yet. I also don't own any Oozes btw because my store has never had any, but I still compete well enough.
No card availability discussion allowed. Warning issued.
Okay guys, I've played this deck for a few weeks now too and am just struggling with the 1 drop slot. While shifting from B to GGG is not optimal I seem to prefer playing with 3 Ulvenwald Trackers and 4 Gravecrawlers over playing Arbor Elfs at all. Sure it stops turn 2 oozes, but they are slow anyways. Plus the gravecrawlers are nice fodder for the lotleth troll Also since I just seemed to kill garruk relentless with his removal ability every time I played him I've opted for vraska the unseen. With only 1cc more she provides permanent removal and becomes an almost must kill. Assassins 2 turns later with rancor are pretty fun.
Oh yes, and one other card I wanted to mention that I didn't see listed so far was Demonlord of Ashmouth. If you're playing deadbridges I highly recommend you give it a shot. I've used it to great success. Has anyone else had this experience?
Play to win. If you don't, you're disrespecting everyone you're playing with by wasting their time. The Douchbag check is at the level of deck construction.
Still Troll's a 2/1 regen trample for 2cc, not that bad a two drop. You can ditch those annoying late game arbor elves and I have won a few games ditching a mangler and then scavenging for that extra 4 point of trample damage. I won't play less than 4 ooze and 4 Lotleth Trolls.
Here is my latest build:
4 Arbor Elf
4 Dreg Mangler
2 Ulvenwald Tracker
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Predator Ooze
1 Wolfir Silverheart
2 Wolfir Avenger
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Rancor
1 Tragic Slip
1 Ultimate Price
1 Ranger's Guile
10 Forest
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Golgari Guildgate
3 Tragic Slip
1 Sever the Bloodline
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Triumph of Ferocity
3 Ranger's Guile
1 Garruk, the Veil-Cursed
2 Golgari Charm
1 Thragtusk
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
He's super good against any red-based deck.
He's a resilient bear against everything else that can pitch cards when needed. What's not to love?
In my FNM two weeks ago, I constantly tapped out turn two with a Troll in play (if I had enough creatures in hand), trying to bait their Mortars/Spears. If they took the bait, it was pretty much GG.
Predator Ooze is also awesome.
edit: I think Avenger is more suited for lists with more non-creature spells, Troll for lists with 24+ creatures
4 Arbor Elf
3 Ulvenwald Tracker
3 Gyre Sage
3 Strangleroot Geist
3 Lotleth Troll
4 Predator Ooze
3 Dreg Mangler
2 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Wolfir Silverheart
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Stopming Ground
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Kessig Wolf Run
2 Golgari Guildgate
4 Rancor
Sorceries
3 Revenge of the Hunted
Instants
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Searing Spear
The idea is that with my G/B deck I really like it when I get that perfect hand of arbor elf, 3 lands, an Ooze and 2 Geists, but if I fall behind it is too damn hard to catch up. I feel like the Ghor-Clan Rampager and Kessig Wolf Run and Wolfir Silverheart give a bit of a boost when I fall behind in the midgame and just need a bit of an oomph to finish them off.
I like the idea of having both searing and spear and abrupt decay because a lot of the removal for creatures like ooze right now are o-rings and detention spehere's which abrupt decay takes care of as well as those annoying boros reckoners and loxodon smiters. Searing spear just seems so much more reliable to me now than any of the black removal as most players in my metagame play very few mono colored creates.
I am not completely sold on Revenge of the Hunted yet. Even with the extra mana ramp of gyre sage I feel like it is a dead card in my hand more often than not. On the other hand a card I just started testing out today is Deadly Allure with an Predator Ooze and Ulvenwald Tracker this card can decimate an opponents board for only 3 mana (4 if you flash it back for even more fun).
Anyways I am rambling now so let me know what you think.
I will be playing this deck tonight at FNM.
4 Arbor Elf
3 Uvenwald Tracker
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Dreg Mangler
4 Predator Oooze
3 Wolfir Avenger
2 Tragic Slip
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Garruk Relentless
4 Golgari Guildgate
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
10 Forest
1 Uvenwald Tracker
2 Duress
2 Appetite for Brains
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Triumph of Ferocity
2 Sever the Bloodline
3 Tormod’s Crypt
Also, I always feel pretty nervous about going all in on Troll. Discarding late game arbor elves, sure, but I've generally felt that the other creature was going to be more advantageous as another body to deal with, especially if it was a haste creature. And an Azorius Charm just makes you feel even worse if you don't have Ranger's Guile to answer with somewhere in your 75.
Speaking of Ranger's Guile, because of the prevalence of Tragic Slips right now (I'm seeing Jund lists have 4 in the 75 and then it shows up elsewhere as well), and because of the fragility of Ulvenwald Tracker, I am thinking about maindecking them. I've seen some lists here where they are, how has that worked out for you guys? I think it's also super valuable in other cases too for the Azorius Charms, Detention Spheres, Oblivion Rings, Olivia activations, Angel of Serenity board wipes.
What is the plan against Olivia? Hope to get a good tragic slip to happen? Board in Severs and get one?Appetite for Brains it away?
How are you guys doing against Naya Blitz? I think it's a tough matchup that becomes very close to unwinable at the first Frontline Medic. It makes me wish Ostracize was in the format alongside Duress and Appetite. I guess the key here is just Sever the Bloodline or GG?
Against the Rx variants, the gameplan is just stick a Tracker and go from there? I lost last night against a Rx deck after laying down one Tracker to get answered by a Reckoner, made a positive trade with an Ooze out, played a second only to see a second Reckoner and then he went over the top via Thundermaw.
Against Reanimator, I think that the strongest gameplan is a turn 1 Deathrite Shaman. More so than Tormod's Crypt even, I think the Deathrite is stronger because you can exile in response to their Unburial Rites choices and build a lot of momentum. The worst part though is that they can still just cast Angel of Serenity and that is a problem.
What is the Jund plan? I board in Duresses and Appetites for Brains and just try to get their Lilianas and Olivias and Rakdos Returns as all of that is bad news bears. Thragtusks are just annoying but they certainly buy the opponent enough time to get close to answers.
Is Triumph of Ferocity still playable when you don't expect a lot of Esper? I think it's a dead card in a lot of the midrange or control matchups, and I think that Primal Hunter might be better there because it can gum up the board or get a big card draw in. The 5 mana is hard a lot of games, but when they go long, I find myself flooding and that would be a good enough use during those games.
I'm not really a believer in Revenge of the Hunted yet, but I'm going to try it out because if it works moderately, then there's a 7/7 Arbor Elf that has to be blocked and if it works great then then Ooze is getting fed. Everything has a chance of bricking, so whatever.
I really like this deck and took 8th at an SCGIQ a couple weeks ago with it fairly untested, but currently I think that it doesn't go over your opponents head well enough into the unfair territory which makes it fairly weak, especially because the clock is ceaseless but not blazing fast. I'm just looking for some more information about our matchups.
Omnath: he's on PCP
RW Redirection
My 360 Pauper Cube
I've never had one game, in over 30+ real ones and 60+ online ones, where they removed my creature in response. At first, Harvest looked so janky, but seriously just try it out. For me, it's always hit for at least 4, often six to nine, and has won so many otherwise unwinnable games.
You don't need to go all in with Troll, you just have to beat face and regen, yeah you really might need to run 4 Ranger's Guile in your 74 if you are running 4 Troll 4 Ooze if you want to go all in with troll maybe a list like this?
Warning, deck not playtested
4 Dreg Mangler
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Gravecrawler
4 Sluiceway Scorpion
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Ulvenwald Tracker
4 Rancor
4 Ranger's Guile
4 Alpha Authority
5 Forest
5 Swamp
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Golgari Guildgate
4 Overgrown Tomb
Probably needs more creatures I know, but a troll with Alpha Authority on it is really hard to deal with right now.
Why not run both? I can't imagine thoe decks running Azorius Charm not hating having a 2/2 wolf pop out every turn.
First off, I want to make it clear: I don't do the Predator Ooze/Tracker combo. Not that it's bad (in fact, it's solid) but the core of the deck, and how it wins, is hasty and/or resilient creatures. Ooze requiring GGG causes problems with the mana base, so even after I acquired four and added them to the deck, I chose to cut them and my standing hasn't suffered. Nightshade Peddler paired with a regen creature does the job just as well - or Deathtouch wolves made by Garruk!
One thing I added to my sideboard against control is Staff of Nin. High CMC? Yes. But Mutilate, Terminus, and Tragic Slip don't touch it (and all are VERY COMMON options in Esper now that I've started piloting this deck at my FNM!), it's constant value unlike Triumph of Ferocity, and it gives you late-game reach.
Recently, I also added Evolving Wilds and cut Arbor Elf, making the Deathrites maindeck - the Wilds aren't as great as fetchlands for fueling DRS's ramp ability, but do the job, and they can seriously help fix problems with the mana base. I got sick to death of Arbor Elf eating early removal and being near-dead topdecks.
And (this is more a local meta choice!) I put Knight of Infamy maindeck. White's popular right now, and it's always nice to have a double-scavenged KoI swing past someone's Sigarda... Seriously, if more people start playing Sigarda I'm SOOO sideboarding Silklash Spider. Or that new lens.
Here's my issue with it though.
1: How will it win games by itself? A Restoration Angel kills him, and he can't do anything about it and that's just one thing. Predator Ooze wins games alone, if he's undisrupted and never interacted with. Yes, he's powerful, but I don't know if that's what power is needed.
2: Triumph is also house against control, Deathrite is house against control, our discard is house, etc etc. I don't think that the control matchup is awful. I think that Ranger's Guile is the better anti control card at that point because it directly answers their answers to our main wincon.
3 & 4: Ultimate Price, Tragic Slip, Sever the Bloodline, Pit Fight/Ulvenwald Tracker, and Abrupt Decay are all playable (except Pit Fight maybe) and they also kill things. Except Sever, they all cost less as well. Tracker is as weak to removal as Garruk feels. Everything, including Garruk, is one use. 3 damage where he can only take 2 doesn't do enough. It's too narrow to kill an Angel of Serenity, Thragtusk profitably, or Olivia, which is later a main point for you. If I see Olivia, I think I'd prefer to just use a Sever so I can flash it back when they down another one instead of just trade there.
5: I probably undervalue the tutor effect, but I've never seen it work. What are you sacrificing and when?
6: I agree, but I don't think it's the value generator that I want it to be because I don't think Garruk will last that long. But I agree, it could be amazing.
7: Do you think that because it was relevant for you in your last FNM you could be overvaluing it at the moment, or do you think it's really powerful and something that comes to play relatively often to the amount of times you cast him? I'm looking for probably better than 1/3 of the time here you're able to get to ultimate and it locks/wins the game right there.
8: Barring no flying creatures, yes.
Omnath: he's on PCP
RW Redirection
My 360 Pauper Cube
I have sacrificed arbor elves and wolf tokens for wolfir silverheart then proceded to win the game on a few occasions. Sure thee are better creature destruction spells out there, the thing about him is that he creates tokens AND fights creatures AND once in a while tutors for creatures AND occasionally does his overrun on rare occasions. He is of much utility.
Background:
I have been playing this deck since I bought the sealed deck at RtR when it came out. I hadn't played magic in a while, but rocked some Necropotence Illusions of Grandeur decks back in the day. The deck had evolved to a very similar point with dead bridges, silver hearts and giant growth before I learned about a card called predator ooze. I've since acquired 4 and played them extensively, taking a record of 14-9. A large portion (5) of those losses came from a 2 week period of splashing red for Domri, Ghor Clan, Wolf Run, and Searing Spear. The deck was too inconsistent, plain and simple.
My current list:
Sideboard:
Justifications:
Geist/troll/mangler/ooze/rancor:
Core of the deck are these resilient, dangerous creatures and best aggressive enchantment ever. It's why I play the deck and the reason it shines, a simple shift in your pacing easily allows you shift between offense and defense. This versatility goes far.
Tracker: he fights and our stuff doesn't die. Allows for us to deal with creature based midrange, the decks hardest matchup in my opinion.
3 arbor elves:
I want one in my starting hand, but generally loathe to draw one. I cut a copy for a singleton garruk relentless. This may be incorrect and the substitution should be made for another card.
Silver heart/primal hunter: these draws will always help shift the tide, and keep your top decking interesting. This deck plays like aggro 1-2 turns slower but much stronger and with the trample to kill. With 23 land you can often cast these cards by turn 5-7, which is generally sufficient. If you're totally screwed by turn 7 you either overextended or are up against nasty midrange creatures, which is why it's our hardest matchup. Garruk can either fuel beasties or just refuel your tank, whatever is best. I board him out versus flying though.
Questions:
My board. I want to have spell flexibility versus control and a safeguard for reanimatior/flash. I also want to have some answers to midrange creatures such as Olivia, aristocrat, angels, boars, zegana bant, etc. currently this exists as sever, AfB and price. I would like soe of these spells to be in creature form though, because there are some matches where one of our creatures is simply terrible ( haste vs the 2 mana white enchantment, big 5 drops vs BTE flood, etc.).
The big reason for this is that again, I'm finding midrange aggro to be challenging. For me, some of the creatures that just run up against walls are worth removing in favor of something more appropriate, and my sideboard is 11 non-creatures. This makes large boarding in this situation very difficult, and it's the one situation where a large swap would be very beneficial. The remainder of our selection simply deals effectively with the diverse threats that exist. My task to you is to help me identify redundancy and fallacy in my decision making to best accent an already extremely strong deck. Assume an intelligent meta with ample resources and frequent competition.
YES YES YES, Garruk is a swiss army knife, not on the JTMS level, but it destorys creatures, makes tokens and tutors creatures. It comes into play in a LOT of matchups
Ground seal SB, Sever the Bloodline and Deadbridge Goliath MB. I have no problem with any of that really.
Standard Daily #5196501 on 03/26/2013Magic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
11 Forest
3 Golgari Guildgate
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Swamp
4 Woodland Cemetery
23 lands
4 Arbor Elf
2 Deadbridge Goliath
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dreg Mangler
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Predator Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
2 Ulvenwald Tracker
26 creatures
1 Garruk Relentless
4 Rancor
2 Sever the Bloodline
2 Tragic Slip
11 other spells
3 Appetite for Brains
3 Duress
2 Golgari Charm
2 Ground Seal
1 Tragic Slip
3 Triumph of Ferocity
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
15 sideboard cards
What prompted the choice maindeck Deathrite Shaman's? Is it more of a meta choice or do you find the strong enough to keep in and keep the speed for any matchup?
It does look like a lot of fun to me, I'm going crazy playing 4 CIPT (8 T1 and sometimes T2) lands and I would love to flash in a Vorapede EOT, then flash in a Silverheart after blocks are declared, or miracle/hard cast a Revenge of the Hunted. Really I just want to play a Vorapede in standard
Lots of creatures
8 1cc
7 2cc
8 3cc
5 4cc
3 5cc
Nice curve, lack of MD removal looks like the main problem, but that can be adjusted for the meta.
Edit:
Do you want to make a new primer for G/x Flash? I think so many varients of this deck are playable right now.
No card availability discussion allowed. Warning issued.
When, at a snatch, oblivion ends the coil?
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Oh yes, and one other card I wanted to mention that I didn't see listed so far was Demonlord of Ashmouth. If you're playing deadbridges I highly recommend you give it a shot. I've used it to great success. Has anyone else had this experience?
4 Arbor Elf
2 Ulvenwald Tracker
4 Predator Ooze
3 Wolfir Silverheart
4 Wolfir Avenger
2 Deadbridge Goliath
3 Yeva, Nature's Herald
3 Gyre Sage
2 Ranger's Guile
3 Revenge of the Hunted
22 Forest
2 Triumph of Ferocity
2 Ranger's Guile
3 Acidic Slime
2 Pit Fight
2 Thragtusk
1 Silklash Spider
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
2 Ground Seal
The lack of CIPT lands and the interaction are fun, and the base Ooze/Rancor is fun. Ranger's Guile MB is a meta choice.
And just for fun the troll deck version 2, a work in progress for Golgari
2 Ulvenwald Tracker
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Gravecrawler
4 Sluiceway Scorpion
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Slitherhead
4 Deadbridge Goliath
4 Alpha Authority
7 Swamp
7 Forest
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Ground Seal
3 Duress
3 Appetite for Brains
3 Tragic Slip
So far it is not working out as planned.
Omnath: he's on PCP
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