Junk Smash (4x Alms Beast content)

  • #1
    JUNK SMASH

    INTRODUCTION:

    5/21/13 - First few pages obsolete, scroll to end of thread for relevant lists.

    Why Junk Smash? Junk is traditionally thin in the 4 drop slot, usually the only card occupying that place is Restoration Angel (which usually never comes down at 4 mana either, in order to maximize its effect). As a result, most Junk decks are either midrange decks or Rites decks that focus on getting all the (admittedly, very good) 5 drops and higher into play ASAP. This makes Junk more subject to variance, weak against certain types of Aggro, and it also is generally inferior to other midrange decks that curve out more linearly (Jund). Playing 6 very large 4 drops allows us to brick most types of aggro, outclass Jund and traditional Junk creatures, and drop must-deal with-threats on the board much faster, and repeatedly. Playing a large amount of creature removal also tends to mitigate the downsides to Desecration Demon and Alms Beast, respectively. The deck is also highly tunable, post SB.

    NoHeavenNoHell's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    4x Avacyn's Pilgrim
    4x Loxodon Smiter
    1x Silverblade Paladin
    3x Alms Beast
    3x Desecration Demon
    2x Restoration Angel
    1x Wolfir Silverheart
    2x Thragtusk
    1x Obzedat, Chost Council
    1x Sigarda, Host of Herons

    4x Abrupt Decay
    4x Murder
    1x Rest In Peace
    2x Essence Harvest
    4x Farseek

    4x Overgrown Tomb
    4x Temple Garden
    4x Godless Shrine
    4x Woodland Cemetery
    4x Sunpetal Grove
    3x Isolated Chapel



    Card Choices:

    Farseek/Avacyn's Pilgrim: Self explanatory. best ways in standard for quick ramp. With only 8 forests, Arbor Elf isn't an option.

    Loxodon Smiter: Good against Control/Lil' decks, good against Aggro, good against Reckoner. I always want this on turn 2 or 3. 4x is the right number. I would run more if I could.

    Silverblade Paladin: He's won me a lot of games, but I hate to see him in my opener. With all our big creatures, he's too good to cut completely. 1x seems correct.

    Alms Beast: I love this creature. I started off with only 2x in the main, but I always ended up wanting this guy out ASAP. The lifegain is usually incidental, nothing on their board can outclass him as early as he drops, and a 6/6 on turn 3 bricks absolutely everything. He outclasses Thragtusks too, which is very relevant.

    Desecration Demon: The only downside I run into with him is against decks that run lingering souls and can either chump him, or sac to him continuously. Other than that, he's phenomenal, he's a must-answer threat that comes down early, and even against aggro decks he's very, very useful. Aggro decks will happily sac their 2/2s to him to push through damage, and with some early removal and another solid 4 or 5 drop following the demon, you usually have the board completely yours within a turn or 2. He's much better against aggro actually than he initially seems, and packing 8+ removal spells maindeck makes him much better. His synergy with Essence Harvest is also very important here.

    Wolfir Silverheart: I started this deck off with 4x, but he really is only as good as what you have him bonded with. I think 1x is the right number, he helps push Essence Harvest over the top, and he can come out of nowhere to add power to a potential attacker on the board.

    Restoration Angel: Used in this deck primarily as an evasive combat trick that helps brick early attackers, rather than setting off ETB triggers. We don't have a lot of chicanery in this deck, and she's a useful addition.

    Thragtusk: I started off with none, moved to 1 in the SB, and now have 2 in the main deck. I really don't want 4 in here, but he's such a useful all-purpose creature in almost any situation, that he needs to be in here. More than 2 would start to take away from the aggressiveness of our deck (since the majority of our other creatures outclass him), and we need to keep an eye on the number of 5cmc stuff we have in here. I *think* 2x is correct.

    Sigarda: Evasive 5/5 that dodges AZ charms, nullifies Liliana, and outclasses opposing Restos. Very useful.

    Obzedat: Great against Control and midrange, very difficult to remove. I think 1 is the right number in the maindeck.

    Abrupt Decay/Murder: I've went through a lot of different builds of this tweaking the removal along the way. This combination deals with 90% of what you need to kill at instant-speed, and we can always SB our exile effects in to deal with the other 10%. Decay's ability to deal with O-rings/DT Spheres and 3 cmc PWs is also very relevant.

    Rest In Peace: Reanimator decks are everywhere right now. I play 100% on mtgo, and Junk Rites is huge as well, so I have 1x in the MD. If the meta shifts, that slot should be tweaked. I want 4x somewhere in my 75 though, for sure. You want to exile that GY too not temporarily disable it, Ground Seal is inferior and can be removed with Abrupt Decay.

    O-ring/Sever: Insurance against Falkenrath Aristocrats and other must-exile threats. The O-rings are also useful against walkers, and Sever is a consideration in any matchups that tend to go long (UWR).

    Golgari Charm: This is really the best strategy for this deck to deal with wipes. I tried some other tactics, but just SB in the charms, and give them the opportunity to tap out for a verdict. Once they know you have charms in there, they'll have to second guess their wipes from then on out. Also very useful against Bantchantments, and token decks.

    Essence Harvest: One of my favorite cards ever. A lot of times that I cast it in dailies, people don't even know what it does, and then usually a "holy crap" comes out. Almost every time when this is cast, its the last card played. Watch out for counterspells, and the card sucks in your opener, hence the low count. No one ever expects this though, and I've won countless games on the back of it.

    Garruk: Great against Control and certain midrange decks, such as Jund.

    Notable Omissions:

    Lotleth Troll: In a non-Rites build, he's just way too weak to justify here. He's also horrible against Rancor.

    Vampire Nighthawk/Centaur Healer: Just not enough power for this deck, and too fragile. Desecration demon/Alms Beast is much better here for 1 mana more.

    Cavern of Souls: Meh. This mana base is kind of ambitious, and its really more aggro than it is midrange, you want a fast start. Not a lot of hard control running around these days, and we have no real tribal theme to justify this either.


    STRATEGY:

    Vs. Aggro: Very favorable matchup. The Deck needs actually very little tweaking. -1 Silverblade -1 RIP +2 Ultimate Price. Any variant of aggro right now really has no way to deal with an early 6/6. Remove their threats and stabilize.

    Vs. Esper control: Poor matchup, pre SB. It depends on the build, but usually: +1 Garruk, +1 Obzedat, +3 Golgari Charms, +2 O-ring, -4 Murder, -1 Silverblade, -1 RIP, -1 Abrupt Decay. This matchup is our worst, save golgari charms for the wipe, and don't overextend without one in hand. Decays are useful if they have DT spheres/Rings, save your O-rings for PWalkers. Watch for counterpells, especially if you have a lethal Harvest.

    vs. UWR: I initially thought this matchup poor, but I have around an 80% WP right now with this deck against UWR: +2 Golgari Charm, +1 Obzedat, +1 Sigarda, +2 Sever, -1 Silverblade, -3 Abrupt Decay, -1 Wolfir, -1 RIP. If you can survive a wipe, you will usually be in good shape. Some lists run Counterflux/Dissipate, so be ready for that, especially with that lethal Harvest. If they pull the Harvest Pyre thing, or have 3x or more Snapcasters, a Rest in Peace is useful here too. The only creatures they run that are a threat are restos and reckoners, and we have the removal/creatures to make them a non-factor usually.

    vs. Naya and Junk Midrange (non-jund): Very favorable matchup. -1 Silverblade -1 RIP. +1 Sigarda, +1 Obzedat, Alms Beast does A LOT of work in these matchups. Watch out for selesnya charms, and if Junk uses rites, side in RIPs and exile effects. Side in Garruk if they use 4 xThrag.

    Vs. Jund: OK matchup, but not great. +1 Garruk, +1 Obzedat, + 1 Sigarda +2 O-ring +1 Sever, -1 Silverblade, -1 Wolfir, -1 RIP, -3 Abrupt Decay. If they have multiple bonfires, consider Golgari Charms as well. A lot of Jund lists run Mortars instead though, which are much worse against us.

    Vs. Reanimator. +3 RIP, -2 Decay, -1 Murder. Stomp them as fast as you humanly can before they can combo. If you have a RIP in hand, SAVE IT until the turn before they can drop a fifth land (rites in hand) or 4th land if the rites and their combo pieces are in the GY. Most reanimator decks run Abrupt decays to deal with Reckoners and RIP/Ground Seal/Grafdiggers, so dropping the RIP on turn 2 is a mistake. Ground Seal is a mistake for the same reason, you want to exile that GY, not temporary disable it.

    VS. Aristocrats. OK matchup . +2 Golgari Charms, +2 O-ring + 1 Sever, -1 RIP, -2 Murder, -1 Silverblade. Golgari Charms -1-1 effect can severely mess their deck up. Use exile effects for Falkneraths.


    RESULTS:

    Standard mtgo daily 2/25: 2-2
    Standard mtgo daily 2/25: 2-2
    Standard mtgo daily 2/26: 2-2
    Standard mtgo daily 2/27: 3-1
    Standard mtgo daily 3/6: 3-1
    Last edited by NoHeavenNoHell: 5/21/2013 8:31:27 AM

    Current Decks
    Standard:
    RWG Naya Walkers
    RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
    RGB Jund Midrange

    Modern:
    WB Martyr.proc
  • #2
    OP please expand the original post to make it compliant with the definition of a primer

    Introduction: Why this deck/idea? What's special about it? Why do you think it'll succeed?
    Deck list (w/tags): You want people to know cards you're talking about, right?
    Card Choices: Why did you pick the cards you did? What cards did you almost include, but didn't? What cards did you outright say 'NO' to, and why?
    Strategy/Matchups: Any special synergy, or combos? How do you play the deck out against aggro, aggro/control, combo, etc? What's the battle plan, general?
    History: How has the deck changed/evolved over time?
    Record: How have you done? Any tournament reports, etc.
    Current Game: Bioshock: Infinite

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  • #3
    I've been thinking about Alms Beast a lot and wondering why more people don't run him. Seems like he does what you need him to do, in the kind of deck you need him to do it in. I'm not sold on Desecration Demon over Restoration Angel though, his drawback can render him utterly useless when you need him the most. Sell me on the Desecration Demon, I want to like him. opposing players running Selesnya Charm will make you sad, too...also, please post a mana base. And do what the mod said and actually write up a primer, because I'm very interested in where this can go and why you think this version of junk midrange has an advantage somewhere over other versions with the more conventional Resto / Thrag / Obzedat setup.
  • #4
    Proper primer added.

    Sunburn: I addressed resto in the primer, She (probably) will end up being added to the build, I need to test it with her though, probably gonna go 2x to start.

    I like this version better than the traditional junk build (that I have been piloting up until now) because this deck is as immune to straight aggro as you can be in this meta without significantly making yourself weaker to other archtypes. My anti aggro strategy in my other junk builds were (depending on where in the meta we were) centaur healer, loxodon smiter, and most recently, lotleth troll. Now that we have the reckoner, and a lot of aggro decks are running rancor again, the healer and the troll dont cut it.

    Loxodon is still viable, and the Beast is just a house. Not only are we dropping good blockers early, they're immune to burn (other than mortars for the smiter), and require their own answers immediately as threats themselves. By turn 5 (at the latest) we almost always have outclassed any creature deck in the meta.

    The Demon.....I like this dude, kind of always have. He's a 3 turn clock that you need to either bounce/remove or sac creatures to. As just a curve topper, or in a deck with a low creature count, he's much worse, but here when you can drop him on turn 3 and pump out creatures just as big the next two turns, it puts them in a tough spot. Not as much lingering souls out there now, the only real sac.fodder I have seen are mana dorks and auger of bolas. Unless you remove him, people start sac.ing 2/x and 3/x creatures that they would much rather be chump blocking with or attacking. Is 4x the right number? Admittedly probably not, but I wan't to keep at least 2x in the build for sure.

    Current Decks
    Standard:
    RWG Naya Walkers
    RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
    RGB Jund Midrange

    Modern:
    WB Martyr.proc
  • #5
    Alright cool a primer! Thank you for your response. I really love the deck against straight aggro. I just look at the list and I think "oh crap, JUND", picturing their arsenal of Dreadbore, Mortars, Ultimate Prices, Lilianas, and Olivias. It just seems awful for a deck that's playing vanilla 6/6 guys. I love the Beast, a lot, and I like the Demon as a tool against control that's not playing Lingering Souls. I'm not sure I see the value against aggro, though, because it usually comes down to having a blocker on a crucial turn. But Smiter and Alms Beast really hose aggro (I know, I'm playing Boros right now). Yeah I love Resto Angel. Re-bonding guys is such an underrated use for her, but mid combat it can seriously mess people up. I'm kind of with you on your opinion of Lotleth troll, at least where I play Rancor and Pillar of Flame are just freaking everywhere.

    I don't understand why anyone would scoop to a Spotlight, lol. unless he was scooping to it when you had a ton of power on board...it actually won't dodge Bonfire, sadly, since Bonfire targets the player, not the creatures. Something I really like in midrange against Jund is Witchbane Orb. They don't have an out to it usually, and it shuts down Liliana, Bonfire, and Rakdos's Return, Huntmaster flips, along with any Tribute to Hunger or Devour Flesh they board in.

    Back to the Demon though, if they're saccing to it, they ARE effectively chump blocking it. It basically doesn't have flying. And even their tapped creatures can "chump block" it, which is depressing. Still, landing that against some decks will cause them to clench up. It's bad vs. Thragtusk, which you still see in the worst matchup, Jund...if you took all of them out I wouldn't blink.

    If you're going to remove Silverhearts, how about considering Sigarda, Host of Herons along with Obzedat? All of her abilities will matter in some games.

    Alright well thanks for writing this up, I'll be following the thread!
  • #6
    All I can say is someone attacking into my boros reckoner with an alms beast while I have boros charm up has been my wet dream since Gatecrash was released. That said, it's an interesting decklist.
    Standard: Mono Blue Aggro, Golgari Aggro
    Modern: Melira Pod, Affinity
    Legacy: Hive Mind, Affinity
  • #7
    Quote from Voltage
    All I can say is someone attacking into my boros reckoner with an alms beast while I have boros charm up has been my wet dream since Gatecrash was released. That said, it's an interesting decklist.


    That's also a consideration, you're right. Better make sure you have Victim of Night or Abrupt Decay ready to roll if you're swinging with Alms Beast into Boros Reckoner.
  • #8
    Thanks for all the comments so far, I made the following changes and ran this list tonight: MB -2 Desecration Demon +2 Restoration Angel, -1 Rancor +1 Abrupt Decay, -1 Wolfir +1 Obzedat. SB: -1 Glaring Spotlight +1 Obzedat.

    Matches:

    Round 1: Vs Naya Midrange, 2-1

    Game 1, I mulled twice and had a slow start, he ended up rushing me with a bunch of creatures after I was low on life and had 2x creatures out. Game 2 I Essence Harvested an 11/11 demon. Twice. Smile Game 3, I removed two Reckoners, decayed an o-ring that had an alms beast behind it, bonded with a paladin and swung for 12, lethal.

    Round 2: vs. Reanimator combo, 0-2

    I hate this deck with a passion. Non-interactive garbage that relies on their opponents not maindecking Slaughter Games or RIP isn't a real deck, its just playing the odds. Anyways, G1 he dropped a bunch of burning trees, so I assumed aggro at first, but once I figured out what was going on it was too late, he combo'd out turn 6, I had him for lethal next turn. G2 was similiar, sided in RIPs but didn't draw them. Did I mention I hate this deck?

    Round 3: Vs. Saito Naya aggro, 2-0

    This matchup is actually pretty great if they're not running Gyre Sage (which this guy wasn't). Our creatures come out earlier and bigger. He had a Domri out both games, but my creatures were always bigger than his, and my Desecration Demon was able to swing away since he didn't want to sac. his Loxodons. Eventually he had to sac. them anyway, whoops too late. Neither game was close. Stompage. He called my deck jank around 4 times, and asked "what the hell is that crap card" when I Essence Harvested for lethal G1.

    Match 4 vs. Rakdos Aggro, 1-2

    This one hurts. I misplayed game 1 by swinging with a resto when he was at 6 and had an ash zealot on board, and I had a Loxodon out with open mana for a victim of night. I was expecting Thundermaw, he cast Falkenrath Aristocrat. Game. Game 2 I pulled out with the help of Obzedat and a timely removal spell for a knight of infamy that was bricking me. Game 3, dual pumped Falkenraths, and I couldnt draw a selesnya charm for an out, or get flyers on board. Falkenraths are a problem for this deck. Seles charm can get rid of them, if they're 5/x but if not, its really tough. Trying a Sever in the SB after this.

    Anyways, another 2-2, but could have went either 3-1 or 4-0 if I didn't misplay game 1 last round, or could have drawn one stupid Rest in Peace in match 2. At no point in any daily match have I felt out of a game unless it was due to screw/flood. This deck is close almost every game that it doesn't win, so I'm pretty stoked on it.

    Here's the updated build with changes after tonight's tournament:

    NoHeavenNoHell's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    4x Avacyn's Pilgrim
    4x Loxodon Smiter
    2x Silverblade Paladin
    4x Alms Beast
    2x Restoration Angel
    2x Desecration Demon
    3x Wolfir Silverheart
    1x Obzedat, Ghost Council

    4x Victim of Night
    1x Abrupt Decay
    2x Selesnya Charm
    2x Rancor
    2x Essence Harvest
    4x Farseek

    4x Overgrown Tomb
    4x Temple Garden
    4x Godless Shrine
    4x Woodland Cemetery
    4x Sunpetal Grove
    3x Isolated Chapel

    Last edited by NoHeavenNoHell: 2/27/2013 12:51:24 AM

    Current Decks
    Standard:
    RWG Naya Walkers
    RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
    RGB Jund Midrange

    Modern:
    WB Martyr.proc
  • #9
    This has potential.

    I have been screwing around with similar ideas but I really really really like essence harvest. I hadn't thought about that.

    I have a few recommendations.

    I would drop the Silverblades. I would play pit fight and/or prey upon as your creature control.

    edit: I tried Wolfir but I went back to Thragtusk. I think Thragtusk is just too good to leave out. My list currently looks like this:
    Illinest's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    4x Alms Beast
    4x Avacyn's Pilgrim
    4x Loxodon Smiter
    4x Desecration Demon
    2x Obzedat, Ghost Council
    3x Thragtusk

    2x Death's Presence
    3x Rancor

    2x Pit Fight

    2x Essence Harvest
    4x Farseek
    2x Prey Upon

    2x Orzhov Charm



    Death's Presence is just something I'm trying out. Not sure about it.

    edit #2: Forget that last list. Now on this:

    Illinest's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creature
    4x Avacyn's Pilgrim
    4x Alms Beast
    4x Loxodon Smiter
    3x Desecration Demon
    3x Thragtusk

    Enchantment
    2x Collective Blessing
    3x Rancor

    Instant
    2x Abrupt Decay
    4x Murder

    Sorcery
    2x Essence Harvest
    4x Farseek
    3x Unburial Rites



    I know you said you hate the 'Rites combo. This isn't a combo though - it's just a good efficient way to maintain big creatures on the board.
    I take back what I said about the fighting cards. I would rather have an absolute form of creature control. Since there's ramp in the deck I went for straight up Murder. I don't want to have to be cute against Olivia. It works just fine because the only other 3 drop is Smiter.
    Thragtusk is still good. I don't care where the meta goes - he's too good to leave out. Bonus - you don't have to play Restoration Angel if you're not using Soulbond.
    Collective Blessing together with Unburial Rites is wicked. By the time it hits the table you'll be in a position to spend 3-5 mana every turn and get 7/7 up to 9/9 creatures out of it. It also gives the Pilgrims a little bit of extra reach.
    So I'm using a few cards that you didn't want to use but I'm pretty sure that I'm still being true to the spirit of the concept.
    Last edited by Illinest: 2/27/2013 10:02:47 AM
  • #10
    I've been working on this non-stop last night and today. Tongue

    So here's where I've come around to:

    Illinest's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Land
    4x Evolving Wilds
    2x Forest
    1x Mountain
    1x Swamp
    3x Godless Shrine
    1x Isolated Chapel
    2x Kessig Wolf Run
    3x Overgrown Tomb
    1x Stomping Ground
    1x Sunpetal Grove
    3x Temple Garden
    2x Woodland Cemetery

    Creature
    4x Alms Beast
    4x Avacyn's Pilgrim
    4x Desecration Demon
    4x Loxodon Smiter
    3x Thragtusk

    Enchantment
    2x Collective Blessing

    Instant
    3x Abrupt Decay
    4x Murder

    Sorcery
    2x Essence Harvest
    4x Farseek
    2x Unburial Rites



    Splash red for Kessig Wolf Run.


    Tested against an older Jund Midrange list. Won in spite of being hit by Rakdos' Return for 4 in the early game.
    Tested against RDW. Ridiculous. They have no cards that deal with Alms Beast.
  • #11
    I won my LGS FNM last week with a junk beater deck and im taking it to a tourney at CFB tonight. heres my list -

    ChannelBowlingBall's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creatures - 21
    04 Knight of Infamy
    04 Loxodon Smiter
    02 Wolfir Avenger
    04 Thragtusk
    04 Restoration Angel
    03 Obzedat, Ghost Council

    Planeswalkers - 04
    03 Garruk Primal Hunter
    01 Liliana of the Veil

    Sorcery - 05
    04 Farseek
    01 Sever the Bloodline

    Instants - 06
    03 Abrupt Decay
    03 Orzhov Charm

    Lands - 24
    04 Temple Garden
    04 Overgrown Tomb
    03 Godless Shrine
    04 Woodland Cemetery
    04 Sunpetal Grove
    03 Isolated Chapel
    01 Gavony Township
    01 Vault of the Archangel



    Knight of Infamy - pro white is very strong right now and an exalted Loxodon is scary.
    Wolfir Avenger - Flash 3/3 with Regen is HELLA underrated. its a great play that aggro decks walk right into when they see you only have 3 mana open.
    Loxodon Smiter - slows down aggro decks like crazy.
    Obzedat, Ghost Council - dodges hella removal. its so good.

    Abrupt Decay - I would like to fit in a 4th. so good against reckoner and all the aggro decks that are around.

    Golgari Charm - perfect against sweepers and owns the aristocrats
    Curse of Death's Hold - the aristocrats and white weenies scoop to this.
  • #12
    Quote from Illinest
    I've been working on this non-stop last night and today. Tongue

    So here's where I've come around to:

    NoHeavenNoHell's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Land
    4x Evolving Wilds
    2x Forest
    1x Mountain
    1x Swamp
    3x Godless Shrine
    1x Isolated Chapel
    2x Kessig Wolf Run
    3x Overgrown Tomb
    1x Stomping Ground
    1x Sunpetal Grove
    3x Temple Garden
    2x Woodland Cemetery

    Creature
    4x Alms Beast
    4x Avacyn's Pilgrim
    4x Desecration Demon
    4x Loxodon Smiter
    3x Thragtusk

    Enchantment
    2x Collective Blessing

    Instant
    3x Abrupt Decay
    4x Murder

    Sorcery
    2x Essence Harvest
    4x Farseek
    2x Unburial Rites



    Splash red for Kessig Wolf Run.


    Tested against an older Jund Midrange list. Won in spite of being hit by Rakdos' Return for 4 in the early game.
    Tested against RDW. Ridiculous. They have no cards that deal with Alms Beast.


    I think Alms Beast is honestly a viable creature in standard as long as aggro exists. Most straight aggro builds really have nothing short of a 2 for 1 (double spear, spear + 3/x) or a Reckoner to deal with it, and my list is built to deal with reckoners anyway. He's just a massive brick wall to a lot of decks. I might actually buy like 20 of them for 1 ticket just to speculate Smile

    I like your list but....is splashing red for Wolf run necessary? Rancor/Selesnya Charm usually does just as good of a job, and I rarely find myself with a lot of open mana with this deck. How has collective blessing worked? If I run collective, I usually run Lingering Souls, and thats just a whole different deck. With as low of a creature count as you run, I would think Wolfirs would be a better bet, 1 mana cheaper and another body on the board.

    I still don't want to give into Thragtusk, and I like all the instant speed tricks in my list, so at least two Restos are here to stay.

    One thing your list has done for me....I was working all day outside today literally trying to figure out in my head how to deal with falkenraths/olivia/huntmasters without resorting to 4 cmc stuff (Sever) or unreliable Edict effects (devour flesh, tribute ot hunger). I honestly never thought of murder, even though I played god knows how many M13 drafts. This changes everything.

    Current Decks
    Standard:
    RWG Naya Walkers
    RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
    RGB Jund Midrange

    Modern:
    WB Martyr.proc
  • #13
    When I see this deck first thing I think of is Garruk, Primal Hunter and Disciple of Bolas. While they are both sort of slow (Garruk isn't a creature, Disciple requires you to sac one) I think the CA they grant you might be worth the slight tempo loss.

    While I do enjoy getting extra cards off of a Triumph of Ferocity, I wouldn't suggest it mainboard especially with aggro being so prevalent. Turns 2 and 3 you need to be dropping a Smiter or Avenger and not an enchantment that does nothing the turn it comes into play.
  • #14
    Quote from bradon
    When I see this deck first thing I think of is Garruk, Primal Hunter and Disciple of Bolas. While they are both sort of slow (Garruk isn't a creature, Disciple requires you to sac one) I think the CA they grant you might be worth the slight tempo loss.

    While I do enjoy getting extra cards off of a Triumph of Ferocity, I wouldn't suggest it mainboard especially with aggro being so prevalent. Turns 2 and 3 you need to be dropping a Smiter or Avenger and not an enchantment that does nothing the turn it comes into play.


    If you look at the Jund(ish) deck I linked to in the primer, I used to run both of these cards. Right now, the meta doesn't mess around, and these cards are just too slow to deal with a lot of decks out there. I think traditional Junk and Jund midrange are good homes for Garruk, and Disciple.....man...I like Disciple of Bolas a lot, but I just don't see him here. Maybe. I dunno, its something to think about.

    Every daily I have done, the ideal start is Pilgrim into Loxodon into Alms Beast. Hands down. Because that bricks almost everything, especially with 1-2 removal spells in hand. I really am leery about slowing that down.

    Current Decks
    Standard:
    RWG Naya Walkers
    RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
    RGB Jund Midrange

    Modern:
    WB Martyr.proc
  • #15
    Quote from aZn.FlipStar_650
    I won my LGS FNM last week with a junk beater deck and im taking it to a tourney at CFB tonight. heres my list -

    NoHeavenNoHell's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creatures - 21
    04 Knight of Infamy
    04 Loxodon Smiter
    02 Wolfir Avenger
    04 Thragtusk
    04 Restoration Angel
    03 Obzedat, Ghost Council

    Planeswalkers - 04
    03 Garruk Primal Hunter
    01 Liliana of the Veil

    Sorcery - 05
    04 Farseek
    01 Sever the Bloodline

    Instants - 06
    03 Abrupt Decay
    03 Orzhov Charm

    Lands - 24
    04 Temple Garden
    04 Overgrown Tomb
    03 Godless Shrine
    04 Woodland Cemetery
    04 Sunpetal Grove
    03 Isolated Chapel
    01 Gavony Township
    01 Vault of the Archangel



    Knight of Infamy - pro white is very strong right now and an exalted Loxodon is scary.
    Wolfir Avenger - Flash 3/3 with Regen is HELLA underrated. its a great play that aggro decks walk right into when they see you only have 3 mana open.
    Loxodon Smiter - slows down aggro decks like crazy.
    Obzedat, Ghost Council - dodges hella removal. its so good.

    Abrupt Decay - I would like to fit in a 4th. so good against reckoner and all the aggro decks that are around.

    Golgari Charm - perfect against sweepers and owns the aristocrats
    Curse of Death's Hold - the aristocrats and white weenies scoop to this.


    Thats a mean curve, almost ideal, and Infamy is a good call with Reckoners everywhere.

    Current Decks
    Standard:
    RWG Naya Walkers
    RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
    RGB Jund Midrange

    Modern:
    WB Martyr.proc
  • #16
    the only thing i have trouble with is the mana. occasionally having double black and white with triple green gets tough.
  • #17
    Quote from NoHeavenNoHell
    I think Alms Beast is honestly a viable creature in standard as long as aggro exists. Most straight aggro builds really have nothing short of a 2 for 1 (double spear, spear + 3/x) or a Reckoner to deal with it, and my list is built to deal with reckoners anyway. He's just a massive brick wall to a lot of decks. I might actually buy like 20 of them for 1 ticket just to speculate Smile

    I like your list but....is splashing red for Wolf run necessary? Rancor/Selesnya Charm usually does just as good of a job, and I rarely find myself with a lot of open mana with this deck. How has collective blessing worked? If I run collective, I usually run Lingering Souls, and thats just a whole different deck. With as low of a creature count as you run, I would think Wolfirs would be a better bet, 1 mana cheaper and another body on the board.

    I still don't want to give into Thragtusk, and I like all the instant speed tricks in my list, so at least two Restos are here to stay.

    One thing your list has done for me....I was working all day outside today literally trying to figure out in my head how to deal with falkenraths/olivia/huntmasters without resorting to 4 cmc stuff (Sever) or unreliable Edict effects (devour flesh, tribute ot hunger). I honestly never thought of murder, even though I played god knows how many M13 drafts. This changes everything.


    i think a better question is "why wouldn't you splash red?"
    especially with my list which was designed to avoid stuff that costs 2GGG or 1WWBB.
    i can use wolf run to replace most of the effects that you're using selesnya charm and rancor to get but still have a mana base that lets me cast what i want when i want it. every once in a while it delays my smiter until turn 4. thats the worst i can say about it.
    having red sources available lets me consider using two other cards that have caught my eye as well. boros charm and fling.

    i think that unburial rites and collective blessing work together. my ramp is to dd or alms beast, then thragtusk, collective blessing, then unburial rites lets me recycle creatures and i can get up to 9/9 creatures for 5 or 4 mana.
    collective blessing is also the way i prefer to give those avacyn's pilgrims some late game reach. i don't like soulbond. it has it's uses of course. my main deck is bant enchant and we use silverblade as a vital part of our combo. i have had the bond broken at a bad moment too many times and when wolfir isn't bonded to anything he's the opposite of what this creature is trying to do. then it practically forces you to play restoration angel. i won't try to pretend that resto is a bad card but it's not something that i want to play here.
  • #18
    Nice looking list, but your alms beast presumption is wrong.
    Turn 4 for BUg millgro can see 9/9 Wight of precinct six and 10+/10+ Consuming Aberration (which can be 20+ easy on turn 4 with the right draw )

    Obzedat could be a good edition to the op's list Smile
  • #19
    Quote from AmbientRaven
    Nice looking list, but your alms beast presumption is wrong.
    Turn 4 for BUg millgro can see 9/9 Wight of precinct six and 10+/10+ Consuming Aberration (which can be 20+ easy on turn 4 with the right draw )

    Obzedat could be a good edition to the op's list Smile


    OP's list has Selesnya Charm which can take care of anything bigger than Alms Beast easily, which is neat considering the charm is mainly used to give Trample since decks with creatures that have power 5 or greater aren't the decks to beat right now. It also runs 4 Victim of Night that can't hit the Wight but it can take care of the aberration easy too. I am not discounting your deck at all but I don't think that this deck really needs to worry about building to beat the Millgro matchup.

    The deck has plains as well so, of course, there will be Rest in Peace in the sideboard, sadly. Slant
  • #20
    OP, could you give me a few examples where Alms Beast 6/6 would do more than Deadbridge Goliath's 5/5? I am not suggesting to switch them, I just want your opinion. I like the tankbeetle because we can scavenge it later onto something, but Alms Beast is a little more resilient since it can dodge ultimate price.

    Also, if you are looking for a 5 drop besides Silverheart and Thragtusk, maybe Vorapede?

    Edit: If you are having issues with Aristocrats, maybe try Tragic Slip. There is no way Falkenrath can dodge it and you can slip in response to Cartel's activation.
    Last edited by bradon: 2/27/2013 10:23:29 PM
  • #21
    Quote from Illinest
    i think a better question is "why wouldn't you splash red?"
    especially with my list which was designed to avoid stuff that costs 2GGG or 1WWBB.
    i can use wolf run to replace most of the effects that you're using selesnya charm and rancor to get but still have a mana base that lets me cast what i want when i want it. every once in a while it delays my smiter until turn 4. thats the worst i can say about it.
    having red sources available lets me consider using two other cards that have caught my eye as well. boros charm and fling.

    i think that unburial rites and collective blessing work together. my ramp is to dd or alms beast, then thragtusk, collective blessing, then unburial rites lets me recycle creatures and i can get up to 9/9 creatures for 5 or 4 mana.
    collective blessing is also the way i prefer to give those avacyn's pilgrims some late game reach. i don't like soulbond. it has it's uses of course. my main deck is bant enchant and we use silverblade as a vital part of our combo. i have had the bond broken at a bad moment too many times and when wolfir isn't bonded to anything he's the opposite of what this creature is trying to do. then it practically forces you to play restoration angel. i won't try to pretend that resto is a bad card but it's not something that i want to play here.


    You're not using the high mana demand cards I am so you can be a bit more expansive with your mana base, but adding red to my list would make my bad hands even worse, so I'm leery.

    I do like your list quite a bit, its a totally different take on a similar concept. I see your point with the blessing, but 6 cmc is reallly steep in an aggressive meta, I honestly dont want anything 6 cmc in my decks right now. Anyways, let me know how testing goes, have you played any tournaments with the list yet?

    Current Decks
    Standard:
    RWG Naya Walkers
    RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
    RGB Jund Midrange

    Modern:
    WB Martyr.proc
  • #22
    Quote from NoHeavenNoHell
    You're not using the high mana demand cards I am so you can be a bit more expansive with your mana base, but adding red to my list would make my bad hands even worse, so I'm leery.

    I do like your list quite a bit, its a totally different take on a similar concept. I see your point with the blessing, but 6 cmc is reallly steep in an aggressive meta, I honestly dont want anything 6 cmc in my decks right now. Anyways, let me know how testing goes, have you played any tournaments with the list yet?


    This is just an idea that I'm fond of - not a replacement for my Bant Aura list. I have been grinding out games against a limited set of opposing decklists so I mostly am comparing it to aggro and midrange right now. It'll get played as the foil to my Bant Aura decks every now and then too but I don't expect that to go too well.

    Collective Blessing is one of the weakest decisions in my decklist. I'm open to other options but as I said I'm not a fan of soulbond so I don't know what else. I might have considered Vorapede if the cost wasn't so bad.
  • #23
    Quote from Illinest
    I might have considered Vorapede if the cost wasn't so bad.


    [offtopic]thragtusk and vorapede should have their costs and rarities switched[/offtopic]

    splashing red should be too hard since you run farseek. early game id definately use farseek to fix the mana but after the first or second farseek, you shouldn't have an issue with fetching out a stomping ground or sacred foundry with one. the red would only be used with wolf run anyways (and possibly a gisela in the sideboard :D)
  • #24
    Quote from bradon
    OP, could you give me a few examples where Alms Beast 6/6 would do more than Deadbridge Goliath's 5/5? I am not suggesting to switch them, I just want your opinion. I like the tankbeetle because we can scavenge it later onto something, but Alms Beast is a little more resilient since it can dodge ultimate price.

    Also, if you are looking for a 5 drop besides Silverheart and Thragtusk, maybe Vorapede?

    Edit: If you are having issues with Aristocrats, maybe try Tragic Slip. There is no way Falkenrath can dodge it and you can slip in response to Cartel's activation.


    Alms beast doesn't die to Thrag. Not that you really want to be giving them ANOTHER 5 life, but it has come up before, a lot of people have been bailing on ultimate price lately, but the fact Alms beast avoids it is a plus. +1+1 p/t for the same cmc is always good too.

    Vorapede has been on my mind too.

    Tragis slip is so so so narrow against everything else though, I would ahte to waste a slot on it. I think Sever is the best way to deal with it for this list actually. Its not instant speed, but it has its upside, especially in long games.

    Current Decks
    Standard:
    RWG Naya Walkers
    RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
    RGB Jund Midrange

    Modern:
    WB Martyr.proc
  • #25
    Alright, so I just missed 4-0ing a daily tonight. I beat 2 UWR decks, one Junk Reanimator deck and lost to esper control due to flood.....soooo close, 3-1.

    I think I have the list pretty close now though, I tweaked it a bit, and I'll post it when I have time, but now I'm going to bed.

    Current Decks
    Standard:
    RWG Naya Walkers
    RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
    RGB Jund Midrange

    Modern:
    WB Martyr.proc
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