Ive been playing this deck since AVR. Previously it was deceiver ex-arch (curves better).
We used basically a full set of whipflare and slagstorm to set it up though. With those gone the deck has kinda died. I did run a version using basically 8 mana dorks and chromatic/vessel ramp but its too slow and prone to board wipes.
Anyways may have to make a 5th version for lols sometime
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Getting back into MTGO maybe, depending on the cost
I think this deck is actually much better post rotation due to the lack of good instant removal spells. Sweepers can be played around by just going off in one turn, seven lands and a Gilded Lotus. I'd kill for whipflame but Pillar of Flame isn't bad.
Seems like quick aggro will be hard for that deck unless you can miracle a timely Bonfire of the Damned. What matchups do you feel the white splash helps in? What do you bring the Detention Spheres in against?
Spheres go in against tokens, bant aggro/selesnya midrange, and similar.
As I said, it needs more pillar for aggro games.
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
I decided to give the white splash a try since it seems to do more than the black. Here is the list I'll be testing over the next few days for the Gamesday tournament this Saturday.
I decided to give the white splash a try since it seems to do more than the black. Here is the list I'll be testing over the next few days for the Gamesday tournament this Saturday.
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
I really like this concept
I was thinking for creatures something like
2 Deadeye
3 Restoration Angels
3 Thragtusk
2 Angel of serenity
1 Armada Wurm
3 Centaur Healer
I think the lists have already been posted in the RUG midrange primer, but 2 guys who top 8'd an event were using Nightshade Peddler alongside direct damage dealers such as Izzet Staticaster, Huntmaster flipping, Thundermaw Hellkite ETB damage, etc. I'm just mentioning that here because the guy who won 3rd was using the combo in his list as well.
What event was this? Anyway, for the most part, it seems like the deck is very vulnerable and slow. With the addition of Thragtusk, Farseek, and Huntmaster, and elvish visionary, it speeds up a lot and with ghostly flicker you can protect the combo and actually dominate the board or gain card advantage without deadeye navigator.
What event was this? Anyway, for the most part, it seems like the deck is very vulnerable and slow. With the addition of Thragtusk, Farseek, and Huntmaster, and elvish visionary, it speeds up a lot and with ghostly flicker you can protect the combo and actually dominate the board or gain card advantage without deadeye navigator.
Visionary and ghostly flicker are sub-par cards. They are bad. (well visionary isn't bad, it just doesn't do enough).
Huntmaster and farseek are 4-ofs in most of the lists I've seen (including the one I play). Thrag is an additional 2 of sb.
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
Why is do you think that about ghostly flicker? It always works wonders for me. It dodges removal, does combat tricks, and lets you abuse etb without deadeye navigator. It's soo good. As for visionary, it allows the deck to get late game card advantage, which is often needed in a combo deck when they destroy your combo piece or counter it. 4 of Thragtusk curving out of your Huntmasters is what allows the deck to take the game over without the combo. Ghostly Flicker is especially good with Huntmaster. You can drop hunter turn 3 and pass for turn 4, letting him flip. On their turn you can then flicker him as surprise awesomeness. It is just as likely as the infinite combo but it gets off earlier. Same goes for Thragtusk and Huntmaster, visionary or mist raven with ghostly flicker.
Also, ghostly flicker is essentially a hard counter that dodges removal on your lotus or dude and gets your etb effect. It is so good and it should definitely be used if you run 12 or more etb creatures
Why is do you think that about ghostly flicker? It always works wonders for me. It dodges removal, does combat tricks, and lets you abuse etb without deadeye navigator. It's soo good. As for visionary, it allows the deck to get late game card advantage, which is often needed in a combo deck when they destroy your combo piece or counter it. 4 of Thragtusk curving out of your Huntmasters is what allows the deck to take the game over without the combo. Ghostly Flicker is especially good with Huntmaster. You can drop hunter turn 3 and pass for turn 4, letting him flip. On their turn you can then flicker him as surprise awesomeness. It is just as likely as the infinite combo but it gets off earlier. Same goes for Thragtusk and Huntmaster, visionary or mist raven with ghostly flicker.
Also, ghostly flicker is essentially a hard counter that dodges removal on your lotus or dude and gets your etb effect. It is so good and it should definitely be used if you run 12 or more etb creatures
Thragtusks:
I run them side only because against aggro, they come in and I win. Against control though, they clog up the (already full) 5-drop spot, where I have 8-12 cards already. I don't want more, and the deck can't handle it well.
Flicker:
It isn't as versatile as anything. Izzet charm does what it does better, and without needing other cards.
Visionary:
I started off with him, he is never necessary. Once you have the combo, he wins the game, but so does (nearly) any other card in the deck. For card draw, there are better options (Jace or think twice both offer better draw abilities, at the cost of not going infinite, izzet charm is also nice...or sphinx's revelation).
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
Hey guys! I'm really really interested in this deck. As far as combo is concerned, I see this as the only competitive option.
Anyway, I have a couple of interesting questions/suggestions:
For the Grixis lists, would Geralfs Messengers be too awkward? I'm suggesting it because it's another wincon. Paired with deadeye it can essentially win games just by repeatedly blinking.
The other thing I would like to ask if if it's viable to make a RUG build that takes a more Aggro approach, rather than control. I know that's a strange option, as our main cards are 5 and 6 mana, it's just an interesting thought to play Aggro with a catch-all combo on the back burner. I don't know what blue could add as far as Aggro is concerned, but running strangleroot Giest, rancor, and hellrider instead of removal would definately be interesting.
Just a couple of random things. I like making certain that every possible option is explored.
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so if i am that player do i get to sleep with his girlfriend ?
Hey guys! I'm really really interested in this deck. As far as combo is concerned, I see this as the only competitive option.
Anyway, I have a couple of interesting questions/suggestions:
For the Grixis lists, would Geralfs Messengers be too awkward? I'm suggesting it because it's another wincon. Paired with deadeye it can essentially win games just by repeatedly blinking.
Triple black makes it hard early, and it doesn't add a lot. The combo wins most of the time anyway.
The other thing I would like to ask if if it's viable to make a RUG build that takes a more Aggro approach, rather than control. I know that's a strange option, as our main cards are 5 and 6 mana, it's just an interesting thought to play Aggro with a catch-all combo on the back burner. I don't know what blue could add as far as Aggro is concerned, but running strangleroot Giest, rancor, and hellrider instead of removal would definately be interesting.
the deck does have beatdown capabilities, its just midrange, and previous poster said.
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
Actually I disagree, with THAT decklist it has some rather creative plays. Staticaster and Peddler is a token wipe, Niv Mizzet and Pedler is a sniper, Thundermaw and Pedldler wipes out an opponents fliers, and with huntmaster, every time it transforms its a sniper too. On the other hand I would say that it would only work in that kind of a build.
I've run staticaster and I run niv, they don't exactly gain much from peddler.
Although yes, it works better in a more creature-tricky version like that one, the deck doesn't want that much in the way of creature-trickyness. I've tried it that way, and it doesn't work well enough.
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
I think you're underestimating Peddler. There are some decks (GW for example) that actually just don't have outs to a deathtouch Staticaster. I think it's a very real option if your meta has a ton of Tusk-centric midrange decks ... playing a 3-mana flash haste Visara the Dreadful is pretty scary.
I've never really seen the Huntmaster/Peddler interaction come up in testing, and Niv-Mizzet doesn't need deathtouch to win the game on his own, but if you're facing board clogs on any kind of regular basis in your meta, Peddler/Staticaster really does break those matchups.
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I'm always looking for foil Madcap Skills and Ghitu Fire-Eater, [trade thread link forthcoming]
I think you're underestimating Peddler. There are some decks (GW for example) that actually just don't have outs to a deathtouch Staticaster. I think it's a very real option if your meta has a ton of Tusk-centric midrange decks ... playing a 3-mana flash haste Visara the Dreadful is pretty scary.
I've never really seen the Huntmaster/Peddler interaction come up in testing, and Niv-Mizzet doesn't need deathtouch to win the game on his own, but if you're facing board clogs on any kind of regular basis in your meta, Peddler/Staticaster really does break those matchups.
Yes, its just that...if I'm running a 2 card combo I either want it to get me very close to winning the game, all the time, or at least be made of 2 pieces that are always good. Staticaster can be played alone, but only SB. That means we probably want the subcombo sb as well. That's 5+ sb slots devoted to anti-bant/naya aggro that could just as easily be magmaquake or bonfire and fill the same roll.
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
Yes, its just that...if I'm running a 2 card combo I either want it to get me very close to winning the game, all the time, or at least be made of 2 pieces that are always good. Staticaster can be played alone, but only SB. That means we probably want the subcombo sb as well. That's 5+ sb slots devoted to anti-bant/naya aggro that could just as easily be magmaquake or bonfire and fill the same roll.
I ran the RUG Soulbond list that got 11th at the SCG on Saturday. I gotta say that the Nightshade Peddler/Izzet Staticaster combo was amazing all day. Sadly, in a Thragtusk heavy environment, Mizzium Mortars and other board sweepers just don't get the job done very efficiently. But the Peddler/Pinger combo really makes opposing Thragtusks pretty flaccid. I was also using Peddler to pair the wolf token from Huntmaster of the Fells, which made attacking me awkward.
Against GWB Tokens in Round 6 my opponent, late in the game, managed to kill my Staticaster (which was bonded with Peddler) and then played a Collective Blessing. Sadly for him, the next turn I played the Niv Mizzet and bonded it up with enough mana to wipe his board.
There's also the hilariousness of the look on a man's face when he has to use a removal spell on an un-bonded Peddler. Good clean fun.
As much as, even I, hate to admit it...Peddler is solid.
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
Peddler is pretty bad against actual aggro decks. It shines against decks that start their curve at 3+ and concentrate on just slamming value threat after value threat in the midgame ... or use Unburial Rites to skip a couple turns of mana development and go straight to huge fatties. Playing against an honest aggro deck, with actual 1 and 2 drops, Peddler is pretty embarrassing (although Staticaster retains its value, generally being an easy 2-for-1 by shooting a dude and eating a removal spell).
The thing is that these aggro decks have a REALLY tough time against both the midrange and the Rites decks, and are being pushed out of the meta as a result. A deathtouch Staticaster is just absurd in the kind of format that results. It's pretty bad against decks with no creatures, obviously, but they are few and far between.
Staticaster/Peddler even blanks a Geist (assuming they are correctly only attacking into a paired Peddler if they have a trick) ... the Caster can block the Geist and shoot the Angel token before damage, and if they use Unsummon or Charm it doesn't even set you back because Caster has flash and haste.
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Thanks to Gabgabdevo for the awesome sig image!
I'm always looking for foil Madcap Skills and Ghitu Fire-Eater, [trade thread link forthcoming]
It's just good though, like B Collar Sparkmage. Everything wins the same way and you create awkward situations for the opponent. Remember, you're trying to combo out, and this gives you a huge amount of breathing room. I'm not sure where you want to go with a combo deck in a format without great manipulation, but Peddler+Pingers and token generators seems like a pretty good direction.
Except that the pieces are more expensive and easier to remove.
Everything wins the same way and you create awkward situations for the opponent. Remember, you're trying to combo out, and this gives you a huge amount of breathing room.
As do board wipes.
I'm not sure where you want to go with a combo deck in a format without great manipulation, but Peddler+Pingers and token generators seems like a pretty good direction.
Midrange or control, they both allow you to do nothing and then combo off, it might work, but people are approaching it wrong imo.
I guess OP wants it to be 'keyworded' like "dies" was. What word would you replace ETB with though?
When Aegis Angel is born?
When Huntmaster of the Fells arrives?
When Kitchen Sphinx lands?
When Faerie Imposter busts in?
When Dread Cacodemon pops in?
When Malfegor shows up?
One thing that I'm seeing a lot of with this list is that having 6 2-damage burn spells and 2 4-damage burn spells really makes Izzet Staticaster good on its own. Staticaster really extends the viability of the burn and several times I have taken down a Hellkite or Trostani because I had a Pillar and a Snapcaster in my hand and a Staticaster in play, and that is a lot of mileage for a Pillar to get, and on curve at that. The combo with Peddler, for that matter, really feels like one of the best things to be doing right now. Jund can still be a little tough, but Bant and GW, and to a lesser extent Naya, just has a lot of trouble playing against a deathtouch Staticaster, since it has flash and can kill all the beast tokens on the board at once. It's possible that winning against Angel of Serenity is actually harder than I've found it, because people kind of have been playing straight into this combo and that won't happen gainer prepared opponents (exiling 2 of their own dead guys but not Peddler, allowing me to permanent-exile their team losing nothing with a Staticaster in hand, for example). However for right now I'm pretty sold on main decking these cards. The lack of good instant speed removal in this format is the only reason it's working, but it is, at the end of the day.
Your relatively low board pressure would make this deck easy to beat with planeswalkers, but Zealous Conscripts is a boss.
The bad matchups are Red aggro and hasty Jund. Basically if a deck can meet two conditions: get us to single digit life, and resolve Falkenrath Aristocrat, they have probably won. The Tragic Slips are in the board specifically for that card because there just flat out are no good answers to it on color (Tamiyo is a 5-drop and therefor does not count).
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I'm always looking for foil Madcap Skills and Ghitu Fire-Eater, [trade thread link forthcoming]
So, I was thinking the other day about runnin th combo in a grixis Heartless Summoning deck. Bascially, heartless lets you potentially get the combo on turn 5. Any thoughts on this?
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We used basically a full set of whipflare and slagstorm to set it up though. With those gone the deck has kinda died. I did run a version using basically 8 mana dorks and chromatic/vessel ramp but its too slow and prone to board wipes.
Anyways may have to make a 5th version for lols sometime
Spheres go in against tokens, bant aggro/selesnya midrange, and similar.
As I said, it needs more pillar for aggro games.
4 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Zealous Conscripts
4 Deadeye Navigator
3 Restoration Angel
2 Thragtusk
Artifacts 4
4 Gilded Lotus
Instants 2
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Sphinx's Revelation
Sorceries 10
4 Farseek
4 Pillar of Flame
1 Devil's Play
1 Mizzium Mortars
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
Land 24
4 Steam Vents
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Temple Garden
4 Sulfur Falls
4 Rootbound Crag
3 Hinterland Harbor
1 Clifftop Retreat
3 Forest
1 Island
4 Centaur Healer
4 Rest in Piece
3 Ray of Revelation
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Jace, Memory Adept
2 Archwing Dragon
Still not sure about the mana base as it's hard to fit four colors. Any suggestions are appreciated.
Too much singleton. You are running 2 1-of sweepers and a random devil's play (you don't need one), fix that
I was thinking for creatures something like
2 Deadeye
3 Restoration Angels
3 Thragtusk
2 Angel of serenity
1 Armada Wurm
3 Centaur Healer
Thank you DNC for the Sig
Visionary and ghostly flicker are sub-par cards. They are bad. (well visionary isn't bad, it just doesn't do enough).
Huntmaster and farseek are 4-ofs in most of the lists I've seen (including the one I play). Thrag is an additional 2 of sb.
Also, ghostly flicker is essentially a hard counter that dodges removal on your lotus or dude and gets your etb effect. It is so good and it should definitely be used if you run 12 or more etb creatures
Thragtusks:
I run them side only because against aggro, they come in and I win. Against control though, they clog up the (already full) 5-drop spot, where I have 8-12 cards already. I don't want more, and the deck can't handle it well.
Flicker:
It isn't as versatile as anything. Izzet charm does what it does better, and without needing other cards.
Visionary:
I started off with him, he is never necessary. Once you have the combo, he wins the game, but so does (nearly) any other card in the deck. For card draw, there are better options (Jace or think twice both offer better draw abilities, at the cost of not going infinite, izzet charm is also nice...or sphinx's revelation).
Anyway, I have a couple of interesting questions/suggestions:
For the Grixis lists, would Geralfs Messengers be too awkward? I'm suggesting it because it's another wincon. Paired with deadeye it can essentially win games just by repeatedly blinking.
The other thing I would like to ask if if it's viable to make a RUG build that takes a more Aggro approach, rather than control. I know that's a strange option, as our main cards are 5 and 6 mana, it's just an interesting thought to play Aggro with a catch-all combo on the back burner. I don't know what blue could add as far as Aggro is concerned, but running strangleroot Giest, rancor, and hellrider instead of removal would definately be interesting.
Just a couple of random things. I like making certain that every possible option is explored.
About Mindslaver rulings:
The peddler has no buisness in this deck, I'd replace him with board wipes or targeted removal.
Triple black makes it hard early, and it doesn't add a lot. The combo wins most of the time anyway.
the deck does have beatdown capabilities, its just midrange, and previous poster said.
I've run staticaster and I run niv, they don't exactly gain much from peddler.
Although yes, it works better in a more creature-tricky version like that one, the deck doesn't want that much in the way of creature-trickyness. I've tried it that way, and it doesn't work well enough.
I've never really seen the Huntmaster/Peddler interaction come up in testing, and Niv-Mizzet doesn't need deathtouch to win the game on his own, but if you're facing board clogs on any kind of regular basis in your meta, Peddler/Staticaster really does break those matchups.
Thanks to Gabgabdevo for the awesome sig image!
I'm always looking for foil Madcap Skills and Ghitu Fire-Eater, [trade thread link forthcoming]
Yes, its just that...if I'm running a 2 card combo I either want it to get me very close to winning the game, all the time, or at least be made of 2 pieces that are always good. Staticaster can be played alone, but only SB. That means we probably want the subcombo sb as well. That's 5+ sb slots devoted to anti-bant/naya aggro that could just as easily be magmaquake or bonfire and fill the same roll.
Against GWB Tokens in Round 6 my opponent, late in the game, managed to kill my Staticaster (which was bonded with Peddler) and then played a Collective Blessing. Sadly for him, the next turn I played the Niv Mizzet and bonded it up with enough mana to wipe his board.
There's also the hilariousness of the look on a man's face when he has to use a removal spell on an un-bonded Peddler. Good clean fun.
As much as, even I, hate to admit it...Peddler is solid.
The thing is that these aggro decks have a REALLY tough time against both the midrange and the Rites decks, and are being pushed out of the meta as a result. A deathtouch Staticaster is just absurd in the kind of format that results. It's pretty bad against decks with no creatures, obviously, but they are few and far between.
Staticaster/Peddler even blanks a Geist (assuming they are correctly only attacking into a paired Peddler if they have a trick) ... the Caster can block the Geist and shoot the Angel token before damage, and if they use Unsummon or Charm it doesn't even set you back because Caster has flash and haste.
Thanks to Gabgabdevo for the awesome sig image!
I'm always looking for foil Madcap Skills and Ghitu Fire-Eater, [trade thread link forthcoming]
Very simple end game compared to the other combos.
Why?
What does it add that niv doesn't?
Except that the pieces are more expensive and easier to remove.
As do board wipes.
Midrange or control, they both allow you to do nothing and then combo off, it might work, but people are approaching it wrong imo.
3 Izzet Staticaster
3 Nightshade Peddler
2 Zealous Conscripts
2 Deadeye Navigator
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
4 Farseek
4 Pillar of Flame
2 Dissipate
2 Izzet Charm
2 Mizzium Mortars
2 Gilded Lotus
4 Steam Vents
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blood Crypt
4 Hinterland Harbor
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Sulfur Falls
3 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Island
1 Kessig Wolf Run
2 Clone
4 Thragtusk
3 Negate
2 Slaughter Games
2 Tragic Slip
2 Deathrite Shaman
One thing that I'm seeing a lot of with this list is that having 6 2-damage burn spells and 2 4-damage burn spells really makes Izzet Staticaster good on its own. Staticaster really extends the viability of the burn and several times I have taken down a Hellkite or Trostani because I had a Pillar and a Snapcaster in my hand and a Staticaster in play, and that is a lot of mileage for a Pillar to get, and on curve at that. The combo with Peddler, for that matter, really feels like one of the best things to be doing right now. Jund can still be a little tough, but Bant and GW, and to a lesser extent Naya, just has a lot of trouble playing against a deathtouch Staticaster, since it has flash and can kill all the beast tokens on the board at once. It's possible that winning against Angel of Serenity is actually harder than I've found it, because people kind of have been playing straight into this combo and that won't happen gainer prepared opponents (exiling 2 of their own dead guys but not Peddler, allowing me to permanent-exile their team losing nothing with a Staticaster in hand, for example). However for right now I'm pretty sold on main decking these cards. The lack of good instant speed removal in this format is the only reason it's working, but it is, at the end of the day.
Your relatively low board pressure would make this deck easy to beat with planeswalkers, but Zealous Conscripts is a boss.
The bad matchups are Red aggro and hasty Jund. Basically if a deck can meet two conditions: get us to single digit life, and resolve Falkenrath Aristocrat, they have probably won. The Tragic Slips are in the board specifically for that card because there just flat out are no good answers to it on color (Tamiyo is a 5-drop and therefor does not count).
Thanks to Gabgabdevo for the awesome sig image!
I'm always looking for foil Madcap Skills and Ghitu Fire-Eater, [trade thread link forthcoming]
About Mindslaver rulings: