So after watching Todds Play test video against mono red and doing some testing of my own i think this i our worse matchup and with mono red gaining some speed i think this needs to be addressed at least in the sb. What are your guys thoughts on mono red? I honestly cant think of a matchup i fear more. Only thing i really have now is dispel which is good against control and the only reason i have that.
So after watching Todds Play test video against mono red and doing some testing of my own i think this i our worse matchup and with mono red gaining some speed i think this needs to be addressed at least in the sb. What are your guys thoughts on mono red? I honestly cant think of a matchup i fear more. Only thing i really have now is dispel which is good against control and the only reason i have that.
Not at all a good answer. Most red decks are only running 10-12 burn spells anyway, and are going to side out most post board. Then you're tapping out and getting hit by Hellrider potentially.
If you're at all interested, I have written extensively on this sort of match and can dig up the relevant information for you (from a red Mage perspective).
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Not at all a good answer. Most red decks are only running 10-12 burn spells anyway, and are going to side out most post board. Then you're tapping out and getting hit by Hellrider potentially.
If you're at all interested, I have written extensively on this sort of match and can dig up the relevant information for you (from a red Mage perspective).
Yeah I thought he was talking mono-red burn, not RDW (aggro). My bad.
If you're at all interested, I have written extensively on this sort of match and can dig up the relevant information for you (from a red Mage perspective).
If you would like to give us some tips for that match from that perspective that would help immensely.
As far as SB options go, I advocate Izzet Staticaster a lot, but in terms of pushing the RDW/RbDW match more in our favor I cannot suggest this card enough. It does so much work for us, not only in this match but other matches as well.
First of all, it is a 0/3 body that gets in the way of almost all their dudes and lives to tell the tale. It also shoots down a number of them with it's ability. To top it off, Staticaster in multiples often locks them out of the game and you are left with the Hellrider to deal with from there, which is a lot less of a challenge. The ability to block and machine gun down dorks is nothing to scoff at and it is one of our most valuable options in that match. It can still get burned out, but a Staticaster soaking up a burn spell buys us more time to catch up with an Azorius Charm on a GoST or Thundermaw Hellkite, or piked up Snapcaster Mage.
I really like Jace. Bringing my own Jace's from the side against control decks running him. It helps you get put cards back into your hand while having your opponent to deal with him.
I agree with you on Azorius charm, however I really do think Izzet Charm has been pretty nuts for me lately. Having the ability to burn, soft counter, and dig when i need an answer is really nice.
I think the Detention Spheres should be in the SB. You want more instants/sorcery's with the pikes.
I understand that you need to run a ton of instants and sorceries to make, pike good. However Detention Sphere can be really good at times get's rid of pesky cards this deck sometimes has trouble with when we don't have the option to counter them. I think 19 instants and Sorcery's is a good number.
I really like Jace. Bringing my own Jace's from the side against control decks running him. It helps you get put cards back into your hand while having your opponent to deal with him.
I agree with you on Azorius charm, however I really do think Izzet Charm has been pretty nuts for me lately. Having the ability to burn, soft counter, and dig when i need an answer is really nice.
I understand that you need to run a ton of instants and sorceries to make, pike good. However Detention Sphere can be really good at times get's rid of pesky cards this deck sometimes has trouble with when we don't have the option to counter them. I think 19 instants and Sorcery's is a good number.
If you are running a Pike variant, it is easier to just come over the top with a resto or spirit token or even GoST and Thundermaw Hellkite than it is to manage Detention Sphere. Pike makes everything a huge threat even just a 1/1 flying token can do some serious damage and even more so when paired with Azorius Charm. I think if you are running Pike you can get away with not running Detention Sphere because it is less about controlling and more about capitalizing on an opening to get max value out of your cards. If you are not running pike it is a lot harder to find those openings when you are not able to produce a large threat.
Pike is good at pushing an opponent back onto their back foot in which they have to start playing on the defense when they least expect it to in which case you start playing a game of resiliency and redundancy. UWr Midrange is more about taking the aggressive route or the controlling route and it's shift from one to the other in the course of a game is much more abrupt and easier to to disrupt than the Pike variant.
Pike is good in either version because it lets you be aggressive. Something not enough blue players understand is that once you're no longer at risk of dying, you need to kill your aggro opponent ASAP. If you don't, they're just going to draw into more threats and get you ~ they're running a much more threat dense list after all. Pike let's you quickly go on the offence and can force them to burn your otherwise ignorable SCMs and Tokens.
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Pike is good in either version because it lets you be aggressive. Something not enough blue players understand is that once you're no longer at risk of dying, you need to kill your aggro opponent ASAP. If you don't, they're just going to draw into more threats and get you ~ they're running a much more threat dense list after all. Pike let's you quickly go on the offence and can force them to burn your otherwise ignorable SCMs and Tokens.
I've had the same thought and am considering Pike in my midrange list for this reason. Obviously, it's not optimised for it and that will probably make too big a difference once I test it, but even getting +2/+0 and first strike on a Geist is a big deal.
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Some people like to win MtG matches in the Red Zone. I prefer to win the way God intended: on the stack.
I've had the same thought and am considering Pike in my midrange list for this reason. Obviously, it's not optimized for it and that will probably make too big a difference once I test it, but even getting +2/+0 and first strike on a Geist is a big deal.
I dunno man, I tossed my miser pike for zealous conscripts. In the midrange lists, you should be able to control the board state in such a way that geist just gets there with no need of the pike.
With regards to the red-x matchup:
Against these decks like dos rakis and RDW/hammer we should be boarding in 2 for 1 removal to compliment snapcaster and take out their creatures. Flames of the firebrand comes to mind(probably the best choice), and burning oilMIGHT be a relevant choice(only because it can generate value at instant speed. Anyone playing 3 azorious charm should board in the 4th so we/they can take advantage of the lifegain mode w/ our superior creatures.
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When does lightning bolt kill Emrakul? When your opponent's at three.
If you are running a Pike variant, it is easier to just come over the top with a resto or spirit token or even GoST and Thundermaw Hellkite than it is to manage Detention Sphere. Pike makes everything a huge threat even just a 1/1 flying token can do some serious damage and even more so when paired with Azorius Charm. I think if you are running Pike you can get away with not running Detention Sphere because it is less about controlling and more about capitalizing on an opening to get max value out of your cards. If you are not running pike it is a lot harder to find those openings when you are not able to produce a large threat.
Pike is good at pushing an opponent back onto their back foot in which they have to start playing on the defense when they least expect it to in which case you start playing a game of resiliency and redundancy. UWr Midrange is more about taking the aggressive route or the controlling route and it's shift from one to the other in the course of a game is much more abrupt and easier to to disrupt than the Pike variant.
You know you are right. Idk why i was trying to play sphere. Pretty much cut the speheres for +1 searing spear and +1 Feeling of Dread atm. I love feeling of dread but idk how right it is in the pike version.
I'm testing a version that better in the mirror along with control, but retains our original feel. I think that Geist is crazy in the mirror, and if we prepare better for the UW Mirror I think we have an advantage, while having a better Red matchup, which is becoming important
The key is our burn for their creatures, and Cavern of Souls. This requires retweaking, and we need a bit more card draw, but I think if we tweak our lists...we have an advantage due to actually being able to beat Cavern of Souls.
As for the card draw, I recently added 4 Think Twice. Haven't looked back. Thought about adding Thoughtscour instead, since I'm running Pike, but I'm too scared to put good cards in my graveyard (I've watched my friends lose because of this exact reason)
As for the card draw, I recently added 4 Think Twice. Haven't looked back. Thought about adding Thoughtscour instead, since I'm running Pike, but I'm too scared to put good cards in my graveyard (I've watched my friends lose because of this exact reason)
The pikes and Thundermaw. I guess that's really it....hmmm, you make a good point, sir.
Between 2 Pikes and 3 Thundermaw I have a hard time imagining you throwing all of them into the bin. You really only need 1 Pike or 1 Thundermaw, worse case scenario, GoST is still a very valid game ender. We have more threats than UW Flash and they do just fine with Thought Scour
Between 2 Pikes and 3 Thundermaw I have a hard time imagining you throwing all of them into the bin. You really only need 1 Pike or 1 Thundermaw, worse case scenario, GoST is still a very valid game ender. We have more threats than UW Flash and they do just fine with Thought Scour
Thanks for convincing me. I'm changing Think Twice for Thoughtscour. I feel I'll get more card advantage that way too, thanks to Snapcaster.
As for the card draw, I recently added 4 Think Twice. Haven't looked back. Thought about adding Thoughtscour instead, since I'm running Pike, but I'm too scared to put good cards in my graveyard (I've watched my friends lose because of this exact reason)
I keep seeing people making the same argument in which they're too afraid of milling one of their win conditions with though scour. Given how most games are played out, you're only likely to see about a quarter to a third of your deck. The point is that you may have never drawn the said card in the first place! If we really want to, we can thinking of it in reverse, where milling ourselves actually get us closer to drawing one of our win conditions.
Not to mention that with Snapcasters, Moorland Haunt and Pike, we actually want to actively dump cards into our graveyard, a huge bonus no?
Thought Scouring yourself is very important. You're often needing to find exactly the right spell ~ with snapcaster mage milling it gives you additional copies (at a higher cost of course, but hey, if you're in need). The tokens from Moorland Haunt are very relevant as well.
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Looks like a typical list. I don't think Jace is right for this deck, and I think Azorius Charm is too strong of a card to reduce to a 2-of. I suggest running 3-4 Azorius Charm and 0-1 Izzet Charm.
Seraph of Dawn
Nvm, they're already playing Thunderbolts main.
I think the Detention Spheres should be in the SB. You want more instants/sorceries with the pikes.
You might be dead by then anyway.
Scared of burn?
Witchbane Orb
If you're at all interested, I have written extensively on this sort of match and can dig up the relevant information for you (from a red Mage perspective).
Want to see me in action? Check out my stream! Currently broadcasting Boros Burn in Standard. Full archive available.
Want to play better magic? Come join us at diestoremoval.com
Yeah I thought he was talking mono-red burn, not RDW (aggro). My bad.
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If you would like to give us some tips for that match from that perspective that would help immensely.
As far as SB options go, I advocate Izzet Staticaster a lot, but in terms of pushing the RDW/RbDW match more in our favor I cannot suggest this card enough. It does so much work for us, not only in this match but other matches as well.
First of all, it is a 0/3 body that gets in the way of almost all their dudes and lives to tell the tale. It also shoots down a number of them with it's ability. To top it off, Staticaster in multiples often locks them out of the game and you are left with the Hellrider to deal with from there, which is a lot less of a challenge. The ability to block and machine gun down dorks is nothing to scoff at and it is one of our most valuable options in that match. It can still get burned out, but a Staticaster soaking up a burn spell buys us more time to catch up with an Azorius Charm on a GoST or Thundermaw Hellkite, or piked up Snapcaster Mage.
I implore you to at least give it some testing.
I agree with you on Azorius charm, however I really do think Izzet Charm has been pretty nuts for me lately. Having the ability to burn, soft counter, and dig when i need an answer is really nice.
I understand that you need to run a ton of instants and sorceries to make, pike good. However Detention Sphere can be really good at times get's rid of pesky cards this deck sometimes has trouble with when we don't have the option to counter them. I think 19 instants and Sorcery's is a good number.
If you are running a Pike variant, it is easier to just come over the top with a resto or spirit token or even GoST and Thundermaw Hellkite than it is to manage Detention Sphere. Pike makes everything a huge threat even just a 1/1 flying token can do some serious damage and even more so when paired with Azorius Charm. I think if you are running Pike you can get away with not running Detention Sphere because it is less about controlling and more about capitalizing on an opening to get max value out of your cards. If you are not running pike it is a lot harder to find those openings when you are not able to produce a large threat.
Pike is good at pushing an opponent back onto their back foot in which they have to start playing on the defense when they least expect it to in which case you start playing a game of resiliency and redundancy. UWr Midrange is more about taking the aggressive route or the controlling route and it's shift from one to the other in the course of a game is much more abrupt and easier to to disrupt than the Pike variant.
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I've had the same thought and am considering Pike in my midrange list for this reason. Obviously, it's not optimised for it and that will probably make too big a difference once I test it, but even getting +2/+0 and first strike on a Geist is a big deal.
I dunno man, I tossed my miser pike for zealous conscripts. In the midrange lists, you should be able to control the board state in such a way that geist just gets there with no need of the pike.
With regards to the red-x matchup:
Against these decks like dos rakis and RDW/hammer we should be boarding in 2 for 1 removal to compliment snapcaster and take out their creatures. Flames of the firebrand comes to mind(probably the best choice), and burning oilMIGHT be a relevant choice(only because it can generate value at instant speed. Anyone playing 3 azorious charm should board in the 4th so we/they can take advantage of the lifegain mode w/ our superior creatures.
You know you are right. Idk why i was trying to play sphere. Pretty much cut the speheres for +1 searing spear and +1 Feeling of Dread atm. I love feeling of dread but idk how right it is in the pike version.
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The key is our burn for their creatures, and Cavern of Souls. This requires retweaking, and we need a bit more card draw, but I think if we tweak our lists...we have an advantage due to actually being able to beat Cavern of Souls.
Also, I'm now representing
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
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xRxAffinityxRx
Honestly, I thought about trying Cavern of Souls out of the side for mirrors, not something I have actually tested, but it was on my to-do list.
As for the card draw, I recently added 4 Think Twice. Haven't looked back. Thought about adding Thoughtscour instead, since I'm running Pike, but I'm too scared to put good cards in my graveyard (I've watched my friends lose because of this exact reason)
What exactly are you afraid of dumping?
The pikes and Thundermaw. I guess that's really it....hmmm, you make a good point, sir.
Between 2 Pikes and 3 Thundermaw I have a hard time imagining you throwing all of them into the bin. You really only need 1 Pike or 1 Thundermaw, worse case scenario, GoST is still a very valid game ender. We have more threats than UW Flash and they do just fine with Thought Scour
Thanks for convincing me. I'm changing Think Twice for Thoughtscour. I feel I'll get more card advantage that way too, thanks to Snapcaster.
I keep seeing people making the same argument in which they're too afraid of milling one of their win conditions with though scour. Given how most games are played out, you're only likely to see about a quarter to a third of your deck. The point is that you may have never drawn the said card in the first place! If we really want to, we can thinking of it in reverse, where milling ourselves actually get us closer to drawing one of our win conditions.
Not to mention that with Snapcasters, Moorland Haunt and Pike, we actually want to actively dump cards into our graveyard, a huge bonus no?
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