Deck was super strong against RDW builds, lost ridiculously games 2 and 3 against RWB midrange decks though. Their Falkenrath Aristocrats were super hard to deal with, and if i did kill them, they had unburial rights. I was just like ugh. Those were my only 3 losses (dropped at 4 and 3 out of 10 rounds, didnt want to fight for top 32, and ended up watching my brother to go on and get 1st out of 418 people) but surprisingly, not a single RWB midrange deck made top 8. I believe top 8 was Human Midrange, 2 Junkinators, 1 jund, 1 esper midrange with pike, 1 naya, and 2 others that I can't quite remember.
But anyways, RWB midrange was to tough to deal with, it played a little slower than my game, and had more kill spells and more resilience.
i really want to try a version with Ajani, serra avenger and geist. Ajani just seems like it would be very good in this deck and i never even saw the card before lol
Anyone tested 1-2 main deck Aurelia's and cut Reckoner? Seems like decks that don't run Reckoner have a harder time dealing with aggro variants.
Why? Reckoner is a creature of value in the early game regardless of how much Aggro there is. Simply because of Thragtusk.
Aurelia is a conversion tool. Her value comes from cards like Reckoner and GoST and even Snapcaster Mage. Because she turns those great early game cards into great end game cards. Dropping Reckoner for her is silly.
though times for URW.
It's every day harder to top8 with a URW build...
You really should check the mtgonline dailies/premiers. UWR has been consistently doing well in such events especially the variants running 6 MB counters (due to relatively lower cavern of souls prevalence) and 2 Aurelia, the Warleader to steal some games out of nowhere. While it is sad that Geist of Saint Traft and Boros Reckoner aren't doing too great in the main right now, this build is far from dead.
What do you guys think about Render Silent. I played it last night as a 4 of and it worked well, but I didn't play against any reanimator. It timewalked for me a few times when I was playing ramp and I would counter an early farseek.
I recently moved the 4th Pillar maindeck and added a 4th Reckoner and Azorius Charm to replace 3 Unsummon. The Detention Sphere in the side is experimental. I don't know if I should use Oblivion Ring instead or some other option. Aetherling is too expensive for this deck to reliably cast, so I have to leave itt out.
Standard: RWUJeskai Modern: RWGBurn, GRWUBSlivers Legacy: RBurn EDH: RWGUBSliver Overlord, UWGeist of Saint Traft (Tiny Leaders) Current decklists are posted here
I recently moved the 4th Pillar maindeck and added a 4th Reckoner and Azorius Charm to replace 3 Unsummon. The Detention Sphere in the side is experimental. I don't know if I should use Oblivion Ring instead or some other option. Aetherling is too expensive for this deck to reliably cast, so I have to leave itt out.
I like the deck; seems very similar to my list - I'll post it below for discussion purposes. How are you fairing on mana with 23 lands and no think twice? I sometimes find even with a 24 land deck that I get a two lander and think twice that helps me hit the T3 Geist reliably. Do you have trouble casting Thundermaw with 23 lands and only AZ charm to help hit your land drops?
Also, what's your meta like? It seems like heavy aggro is a player if your MB has four pillars. Do you have any trouble with control without MB counters?
23 lands is as low as I would go with this deck. I often keep 2 land hands, but almost always find a third in time. Thundermaw can be a little tough to cast, but I can almost always pull it off. I have had to use Ral before to get that 5th mana, so it isn't guaranteed. I only have 2 Thundermaws in the deck, so the issue rarely comes up.
The meta is fairly mixed with a distinct lack of Reanimator. I keep the Pillars main because Voice is on the uptick and I can throw them at my opponent's head (15 burn spells) when there is nothing better to do with them. Cavern is pretty popular so I can't expect to counter creatures on a regular basis.
Against the few control decks in my meta, I can often catch them by surprise with all the burn in game 1. The deck can go aggressive in a heartbeat and I have knocked people out from 15 before in one shot. If I hold up counter mana, most will assume I have it unless they know that I don't play any main.
I never considered Think Twice to be a good option in this kind of deck. I am often tapping out and those slots can be used for more burn. If Ponder was still in the format, I would play that in a heartbeat but I don't think Think Twice is where I want to be.
Turn/Burn and Ral Zarek are what make this deck viable. They give me so many options and ways to deal with creatures that this deck normally can't. I have been considering a 4th but don't really want to cut anything for it.
Standard: RWUJeskai Modern: RWGBurn, GRWUBSlivers Legacy: RBurn EDH: RWGUBSliver Overlord, UWGeist of Saint Traft (Tiny Leaders) Current decklists are posted here
23 lands is as low as I would go with this deck. I often keep 2 land hands, but almost always find a third in time. Thundermaw can be a little tough to cast, but I can almost always pull it off. I have had to use Ral before to get that 5th mana, so it isn't guaranteed. I only have 2 Thundermaws in the deck, so the issue rarely comes up.
The meta is fairly mixed with a distinct lack of Reanimator. I keep the Pillars main because Voice is on the uptick and I can throw them at my opponent's head (15 burn spells) when there is nothing better to do with them. Cavern is pretty popular so I can't expect to counter creatures on a regular basis.
Against the few control decks in my meta, I can often catch them by surprise with all the burn in game 1. The deck can go aggressive in a heartbeat and I have knocked people out from 15 before in one shot. If I hold up counter mana, most will assume I have it unless they know that I don't play any main.
I never considered Think Twice to be a good option in this kind of deck. I am often tapping out and those slots can be used for more burn. If Ponder was still in the format, I would play that in a heartbeat but I don't think Think Twice is where I want to be.
Turn/Burn and Ral Zarek are what make this deck viable. They give me so many options and ways to deal with creatures that this deck normally can't. I have been considering a 4th but don't really want to cut anything for it.
Thanks for the insight. I made some changes based on what you said, mainly with Think Twice. I cut all three of mine for an extra Turn//Burn and two Izzet Charms. I like the Izzet Charms since they help you dig for a turn three Geist (or w/e you need), burn a creature against aggro, or stop non-creature spells that hurt you, especially any X spell like Bonfire, Rakdos's Return, and Sphinx's Rev.
What does everyone else think? Is Izzet Charm a good place to be as a 2 of since it's flexible against various decks?
Standard: RWUJeskai Modern: RWGBurn, GRWUBSlivers Legacy: RBurn EDH: RWGUBSliver Overlord, UWGeist of Saint Traft (Tiny Leaders) Current decklists are posted here
This deck is going to be dead soon. I have been facing an increasing number of players online maindecking Renounce the Guilds as a way to hate out Junk Aristocrats and Jund. This deck is annhilated by that card.
Edit - Then again, if they don't it can be epic. 4-0 tonight at FNM beating TurboFog, UWR Control, Mono Red Aggro, and lucksacking my way through Junk Aristocrats on the back of 7 Boros Charms in 2 games.
Standard: RWUJeskai Modern: RWGBurn, GRWUBSlivers Legacy: RBurn EDH: RWGUBSliver Overlord, UWGeist of Saint Traft (Tiny Leaders) Current decklists are posted here
2 lists from last SCG? Similar in concept to his lists, where the higher placing one was a direct port of his lists.
The deck is still good. Always will be.
good but not consistent for every time these decks top 8 they also 0 - 3 drop. Not to mention the last time they topped a starcity was a long time ago.
Not saying SCG is the end all be all but for this arguments sake.
I'm going to take this to my FNM this week. Ill post a tournament report afterwards and let you guys know how it goes.
I am unsure about the Bonfires in the list but I suppose that would depend on your local meta. I would likely turn them into Izzet Charms, Ral Zarek or a Turn//Burn and a Supreme Verdict.
The list I have been running (11-1 in the last 3 weeks) is above with one minor change, +2 Izzet Charm, -1 Azorius Charm, -1 Searing Spear.
Standard: RWUJeskai Modern: RWGBurn, GRWUBSlivers Legacy: RBurn EDH: RWGUBSliver Overlord, UWGeist of Saint Traft (Tiny Leaders) Current decklists are posted here
The Bonfires are being tested. I figured with all of these Aggro deck running around, BotD couldn't be too bad. Needs more testing though.
Haven't really been a fan of Ral Zarek, never really happy when I see him. Sure he can get Geist through, but I think we have enough removal to do that. I like Jace, AoT in here as a nice tempo card to buy us some time against the opponents attacks or dig for answers if we need too.
Can I ask why your not playing Warleader's Helix? It's performed extremely well for me in every version of URW I played. It's starting to become one of my favorite cards.
Helix feels a little too expensive and slow for my deck since it only has 23 lands. I don't know what I would cut to add them. Ral has been wonderful for my deck. Often he is just 2 bolts or a bolt and a little pseudo lifegain but it is a card that my opponents have always felt compelled to answer in a hurry, lest I decide to go for free turns (I almost never do).
Standard: RWUJeskai Modern: RWGBurn, GRWUBSlivers Legacy: RBurn EDH: RWGUBSliver Overlord, UWGeist of Saint Traft (Tiny Leaders) Current decklists are posted here
I could have worded that a bit better. What I was saying is that I feel 4 mana for a 4 damage instant is too much for my deck. 4 mana for a (semi) permanent that has to be answered is fine. Remember that the "some life gain" includes the time they spent dealing with it.
Ral is far from a perfect card. I find that he is either amazing or horrible based on circumstance, much like many cards in the deck. I take him out vs Blitz and Aristocrats as those two decks require different answers than what Ral, or Helix for that matter, provide.
The deck can indeed be hard to play. It is good at punishing stumbles and mistakes, but gets flattened by most true nut draws. The thing is, though, that most decks in this format can't beat a nut draw without one of their own, so I accept that in exchange for consistency against any non-nut draw.
Sabre: What 4 cards? I have found that this type of deck plays very differently based on configuration.
Standard: RWUJeskai Modern: RWGBurn, GRWUBSlivers Legacy: RBurn EDH: RWGUBSliver Overlord, UWGeist of Saint Traft (Tiny Leaders) Current decklists are posted here
Ral is a fine card, but he is only really great in the MUs that struggle to deal with a Planeswalker. The ability to screw with people's dissipate mana (or insert any other card with a restrictive mana cost) in MP1 and then entering MP2 to do something meaningful (while also getting a "free" one cost spell, like Thought Scour in the process) is certainly powerful and is something your opponent must play around in a control MU. His ultimate is also extremely potent in a control match (or control vs midrange match) as it lets you pull way ahead.
The problem I've found with Ral is that everything I just described is done better by Tamiyo. Tamiyo is even bad in exactly the same situations that Ral is bad, but she is great in the situations where Ral is good. Once Tamiyo rotates out I feel that Ral will become stronger
This is what I've been running at my LGS. I wanted to give Delver another go before he rotates. Brewing resolved to some hybrid between a Tempo list and a Flash list. It is very versatile, especially after sideboarding. I beat asses with it all day. Worst matchup is other control strategies and even then those matches are highly winnable. Anyway:
You may be all like, where is Thought Scour? Or Runechanter's Pike? I didn't like them so I cut them. Simple
Silence comes in against anything that accelerates. Jund and Bant and whatnot. Chandra is a house. Detention Sphere is my only out to Liliana if she doesn't eat a counterspell.
4x Augor of Bolas
4x Boros Reckoner
3x Restoration Angel
3x Snapcaster Mage
Sorcery
1x Mizzium Mortars
2x Supreme Verdict
1x Blasphemous Act
Instant
4x Azorious Charm
2x Boros Charm
2x Izzet Charm
1x Unsummon
1x Thoughtflare
3x Sphinx's Revelation
3x Searing Spear
1x Dissipate
1x Harvest Pyre
1x Slayer's Stronghold
1x Plains
2x Cavern of Souls
3x Clifftop Retreat
3x Sulfur Falls
3x Glacial Fortress
3x Sacred Foundry
4x Steam Vents
4x Hallowed Fountain
2x Purify the Grave
1x Tormod's Crypt
2x Thundermaw Hellkite
4x Geist of Saint Traft
1x Dissipate
1x Counterflux
1x Psychic Spiral
1x Dispel
1x Mizzium Mortars
1x Supreme Verdict
Deck was super strong against RDW builds, lost ridiculously games 2 and 3 against RWB midrange decks though. Their Falkenrath Aristocrats were super hard to deal with, and if i did kill them, they had unburial rights. I was just like ugh. Those were my only 3 losses (dropped at 4 and 3 out of 10 rounds, didnt want to fight for top 32, and ended up watching my brother to go on and get 1st out of 418 people) but surprisingly, not a single RWB midrange deck made top 8. I believe top 8 was Human Midrange, 2 Junkinators, 1 jund, 1 esper midrange with pike, 1 naya, and 2 others that I can't quite remember.
But anyways, RWB midrange was to tough to deal with, it played a little slower than my game, and had more kill spells and more resilience.
Why? Reckoner is a creature of value in the early game regardless of how much Aggro there is. Simply because of Thragtusk.
Aurelia is a conversion tool. Her value comes from cards like Reckoner and GoST and even Snapcaster Mage. Because she turns those great early game cards into great end game cards. Dropping Reckoner for her is silly.
You really should check the mtgonline dailies/premiers. UWR has been consistently doing well in such events especially the variants running 6 MB counters (due to relatively lower cavern of souls prevalence) and 2 Aurelia, the Warleader to steal some games out of nowhere. While it is sad that Geist of Saint Traft and Boros Reckoner aren't doing too great in the main right now, this build is far from dead.
If I was coming back I'd be playing that
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
Where can I find his lists? Thanks
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Restoration Angel
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Searing Spear
4 Boros Charm
3 Turn // Burn
4 Azorius Charm
4 Steam Vents
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Sulfur Falls
3 Clifftop Retreat
3 Glacial Fortress
1 Slayers' Stronghold
2 Assemble the Legion
2 Negate
2 Dissipate
3 Izzet Staticaster
3 Clone
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Detention Sphere
I recently moved the 4th Pillar maindeck and added a 4th Reckoner and Azorius Charm to replace 3 Unsummon. The Detention Sphere in the side is experimental. I don't know if I should use Oblivion Ring instead or some other option. Aetherling is too expensive for this deck to reliably cast, so I have to leave itt out.
DCI Rules Advisor
MTGO/Cockatrice: BlakLanner
My YouTube Channel
Modern: RWGBurn, GRWUBSlivers
Legacy: RBurn
EDH: RWGUBSliver Overlord, UWGeist of Saint Traft (Tiny Leaders)
Current decklists are posted here
I like the deck; seems very similar to my list - I'll post it below for discussion purposes. How are you fairing on mana with 23 lands and no think twice? I sometimes find even with a 24 land deck that I get a two lander and think twice that helps me hit the T3 Geist reliably. Do you have trouble casting Thundermaw with 23 lands and only AZ charm to help hit your land drops?
Also, what's your meta like? It seems like heavy aggro is a player if your MB has four pillars. Do you have any trouble with control without MB counters?
Here's what I'm running to compare:
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Restoration Angel
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
Spells (19)
4 Azorius Charm
4 Boros Charm
3 Think Twice
4 Searing Spear
2 Turn//Burn
2 Syncopate
1 Ral Zarek
Lands (24)
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Hallowed Fountain
3 Steam Vents
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Clifftop Retreat
4 Sulfur Falls
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Plains
4 Pillar of Flame
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Negate
2 Purify the Grave
1 Zealous Conscripts
2 Clone
1 Assemble the Legion
2 Jace, Architect of Thought
The meta is fairly mixed with a distinct lack of Reanimator. I keep the Pillars main because Voice is on the uptick and I can throw them at my opponent's head (15 burn spells) when there is nothing better to do with them. Cavern is pretty popular so I can't expect to counter creatures on a regular basis.
Against the few control decks in my meta, I can often catch them by surprise with all the burn in game 1. The deck can go aggressive in a heartbeat and I have knocked people out from 15 before in one shot. If I hold up counter mana, most will assume I have it unless they know that I don't play any main.
I never considered Think Twice to be a good option in this kind of deck. I am often tapping out and those slots can be used for more burn. If Ponder was still in the format, I would play that in a heartbeat but I don't think Think Twice is where I want to be.
Turn/Burn and Ral Zarek are what make this deck viable. They give me so many options and ways to deal with creatures that this deck normally can't. I have been considering a 4th but don't really want to cut anything for it.
DCI Rules Advisor
MTGO/Cockatrice: BlakLanner
My YouTube Channel
Modern: RWGBurn, GRWUBSlivers
Legacy: RBurn
EDH: RWGUBSliver Overlord, UWGeist of Saint Traft (Tiny Leaders)
Current decklists are posted here
Thanks for the insight. I made some changes based on what you said, mainly with Think Twice. I cut all three of mine for an extra Turn//Burn and two Izzet Charms. I like the Izzet Charms since they help you dig for a turn three Geist (or w/e you need), burn a creature against aggro, or stop non-creature spells that hurt you, especially any X spell like Bonfire, Rakdos's Return, and Sphinx's Rev.
What does everyone else think? Is Izzet Charm a good place to be as a 2 of since it's flexible against various decks?
DCI Rules Advisor
MTGO/Cockatrice: BlakLanner
My YouTube Channel
Modern: RWGBurn, GRWUBSlivers
Legacy: RBurn
EDH: RWGUBSliver Overlord, UWGeist of Saint Traft (Tiny Leaders)
Current decklists are posted here
Edit - Then again, if they don't it can be epic. 4-0 tonight at FNM beating TurboFog, UWR Control, Mono Red Aggro, and lucksacking my way through Junk Aristocrats on the back of 7 Boros Charms in 2 games.
Tournament Report - http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?b=8842
DCI Rules Advisor
MTGO/Cockatrice: BlakLanner
My YouTube Channel
Modern: RWGBurn, GRWUBSlivers
Legacy: RBurn
EDH: RWGUBSliver Overlord, UWGeist of Saint Traft (Tiny Leaders)
Current decklists are posted here
2 lists from last SCG? Similar in concept to his lists, where the higher placing one was a direct port of his lists.
The deck is still good. Always will be.
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
good but not consistent for every time these decks top 8 they also 0 - 3 drop. Not to mention the last time they topped a starcity was a long time ago.
Not saying SCG is the end all be all but for this arguments sake.
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Restoration Angel
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
SPELLS:
4 Azorius Charm
3 Searing Spear
3 Pillar of Flame
2 Turn//Burn
2 Warleader's Helix
2 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Syncopate
1 Detention Sphere
1 Dissipate
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 AEtherling
2 Clone
3 Izzet Staticaster
1 Dispel
2 Negate
3 Supreme Verdict
1 Pillar of Flame
2 Purify The Grave
I'm going to take this to my FNM this week. Ill post a tournament report afterwards and let you guys know how it goes.
I am unsure about the Bonfires in the list but I suppose that would depend on your local meta. I would likely turn them into Izzet Charms, Ral Zarek or a Turn//Burn and a Supreme Verdict.
The list I have been running (11-1 in the last 3 weeks) is above with one minor change, +2 Izzet Charm, -1 Azorius Charm, -1 Searing Spear.
DCI Rules Advisor
MTGO/Cockatrice: BlakLanner
My YouTube Channel
Modern: RWGBurn, GRWUBSlivers
Legacy: RBurn
EDH: RWGUBSliver Overlord, UWGeist of Saint Traft (Tiny Leaders)
Current decklists are posted here
Haven't really been a fan of Ral Zarek, never really happy when I see him. Sure he can get Geist through, but I think we have enough removal to do that. I like Jace, AoT in here as a nice tempo card to buy us some time against the opponents attacks or dig for answers if we need too.
Can I ask why your not playing Warleader's Helix? It's performed extremely well for me in every version of URW I played. It's starting to become one of my favorite cards.
DCI Rules Advisor
MTGO/Cockatrice: BlakLanner
My YouTube Channel
Modern: RWGBurn, GRWUBSlivers
Legacy: RBurn
EDH: RWGUBSliver Overlord, UWGeist of Saint Traft (Tiny Leaders)
Current decklists are posted here
Ral is far from a perfect card. I find that he is either amazing or horrible based on circumstance, much like many cards in the deck. I take him out vs Blitz and Aristocrats as those two decks require different answers than what Ral, or Helix for that matter, provide.
The deck can indeed be hard to play. It is good at punishing stumbles and mistakes, but gets flattened by most true nut draws. The thing is, though, that most decks in this format can't beat a nut draw without one of their own, so I accept that in exchange for consistency against any non-nut draw.
Sabre: What 4 cards? I have found that this type of deck plays very differently based on configuration.
DCI Rules Advisor
MTGO/Cockatrice: BlakLanner
My YouTube Channel
Modern: RWGBurn, GRWUBSlivers
Legacy: RBurn
EDH: RWGUBSliver Overlord, UWGeist of Saint Traft (Tiny Leaders)
Current decklists are posted here
The problem I've found with Ral is that everything I just described is done better by Tamiyo. Tamiyo is even bad in exactly the same situations that Ral is bad, but she is great in the situations where Ral is good. Once Tamiyo rotates out I feel that Ral will become stronger
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Restoration Angel
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Young Pyromancer
Spells (22)
4 Azorius Charm
2 Dissipate
2 Izzet Charm
3 Searing Spear
2 Shock
3 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Syncopate
1 Unsummon
2 Warleader's Helix
2 Island
1 Clifftop Retreat
2 Desolate Lighthouse
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
1 Counterflux
2 Detention Sphere
1 Essence Scatter
1 Negate
1 Searing Spear
4 Silence
4 Supreme Verdict
1 Unsummon
You may be all like, where is Thought Scour? Or Runechanter's Pike? I didn't like them so I cut them. Simple
Silence comes in against anything that accelerates. Jund and Bant and whatnot. Chandra is a house. Detention Sphere is my only out to Liliana if she doesn't eat a counterspell.