Dega is real good vs. control; pretty soft to a deck like Mono Red I imagine.
This exactly, haven't had any troubles at all vs Control but vs mono red I have had very limited success. Lingering souls is a trap in that matchup since blocking to hold off their threats in reality doesn't gain you that much as you dont really have big threats that will defensively hold the board, Olivia may work but honestly, may come down a turn of too too late to not be dead
Also I think orzhov charm is a bit too greedy hehe getting stuck with it in hand is not too uncommon and completely kills the game
LP, I'm checking your article out as well. Behind all of your swag is the brain of one of the most intelligent Magic players I've ever known. I guess that's one more thing for you to add to the wall of ego that is your Sally sig.
I can go with that. LK, you are the Mace Windu of red mages...cool, tempered logic in deliberation, but capable of just flat kicking tail when the situation warrants it.
Okay guys...to quote Bugs Bunny, "Its time for a little stragety."
These hyper-aggro Gruul lists are getting under my skin a bit. If I take a shock T1 or T2 and then they chain BTE's into Mauler T2, I'm generally sitting at 12 by close of turn. That doesn't leave much wiggle room for getting stable. The problem is that on the draw, at best we have 1 open mana when they get the combo off from their opener.
So am I right that the only options are to run either Geistflame or (less reliably) Tragic Slip?
also to ask is Victim of the Night really good as in can it fit my mana? Sometimes I am stuck with black cards in hand and cannot cast them even with 12 black sources =/ isn't playing a BB card really asking for it?
also to ask is Victim of the Night really good as in can it fit my mana? Sometimes I am stuck with black cards in hand and cannot cast them even with 12 black sources =/ isn't playing a BB card really asking for it?
I've been wondering the same thing and I'm gonna test it tonight.
Someone posted a page or two back their decklist and said they run Victim of Night with BB cost just fine with 12 black sources
Someone posted a page or two back their decklist and said they run Victim of Night with BB cost just fine with 12 black sources
I'm dubious. I'd prefer something like >16 black sources in the least. Of course it all depends on what you are trying to get rid of, T2 Ash Zealots or T7 Obzedats
Look at the tables, running 12 black sources and needing BB is not a slam dunk. We're talking about 75% by turn 6. That's too little of a percentage too late in the game.
Dreadbore kills everything and more and it's easier to cast and for that it gives up instant speed for sorcery speed.
Okay guys...to quote Bugs Bunny, "Its time for a little stragety."
These hyper-aggro Gruul lists are getting under my skin a bit. If I take a shock T1 or T2 and then they chain BTE's into Mauler T2, I'm generally sitting at 12 by close of turn. That doesn't leave much wiggle room for getting stable. The problem is that on the draw, at best we have 1 open mana when they get the combo off from their opener.
So am I right that the only options are to run either Geistflame or (less reliably) Tragic Slip?
The only issue with that strategy that I see is that - unless they play a turn 1 Noble or turn 2 Mauler - Geistflame is really anemic.
Of course, if they don't play a turn 1 Noble or turn 2 Mauler, you're probably not looking too poor anyway...
BTW, after playing around with Dega for a little bit, I think I'm going to go back to straight Dos Rakis. Boros Charm is strong, but not strong enough to run 4-6 more shocklands for with all the heavy Aggro running around.
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
—Jaya Ballard, task mage
redthirst is redthirst, fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse. He was the leader of the Fires of Salvation, the only clan I'm aware of to get modded off the forums so hard they made their own forums.
Degenerate? Sure. Loudmouth? You bet. Law abiding? No ****ing way.
redthirst is redthirst, fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse. He was the leader of the Fires of Salvation, the only clan I'm aware of to get modded off the forums so hard they made their own forums.
Degenerate? Sure. Loudmouth? You bet. Law abiding? No ****ing way.
I'm dubious. I'd prefer something like >16 black sources in the least. Of course it all depends on what you are trying to get rid of, T2 Ash Zealots or T7 Obzedats
Yea me too, I think I ran 14-16 when I was running Underworld Connections.
He said its there when he needs it but idk... I want to test it myself. Probably would require swapping Mountains for Guildgates.
Look at the tables, running 12 black sources and needing BB is not a slam dunk. We're talking about 75% by turn 6. That's too little of a percentage too late in the game.
Dreadbore kills everything and more and it's easier to cast and for that it gives up instant speed for sorcery speed.
This is what I was looking for...some math to save me some time.
Seriously, Falkenrath Aristocrat looks approx. 9000 better than Hellrider right now. It was pretty tough for Hellrider when it had to deal with just Restoration Angels, but fighting Boros Reckoners seems really rough.
Yeah, I mean I do get those hands that are like 2 Pillar, 3 Spear, 2 land sometimes, but I also get games where I'm like "I really wish I had some way to kill that creature..."
With many R Aggro decks deciding to run VS - some of them MD even - I like having a certain number of answers to that problem.
Especially since K described losing to MD VStrength as "the very worst feeling in the world".
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"Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
—Jaya Ballard, task mage
redthirst is redthirst, fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse. He was the leader of the Fires of Salvation, the only clan I'm aware of to get modded off the forums so hard they made their own forums.
Degenerate? Sure. Loudmouth? You bet. Law abiding? No ****ing way.
Yeah, I mean I do get those hands that are like 2 Pillar, 3 Spear, 2 land sometimes, but I also get games where I'm like "I really wish I had some way to kill that creature..."
With many R Aggro decks deciding to run VS - some of them MD even - I like having a certain number of answers to that problem.
Especially since K described losing to MD VStrength as "the very worst feeling in the world".
Do you really think Brimstone Volley helps though against VS on a creature? I guess if you trigger Morbid. Maybe my deck just hates me and I'm stuck on 2 mana too often and got pissed off at Brimestone Volley
I kinda see Dreadbore as my answer to VS. They might hit me for it one turn, but regardless of the toughness with the VS, its gonna die on my next turn.
Its nice how those of us who have been here a while all do really well with our own little versions of the deck. Been tweaking and testing for what, 5 months now?
Okay guys...to quote Bugs Bunny, "Its time for a little stragety."
These hyper-aggro Gruul lists are getting under my skin a bit. If I take a shock T1 or T2 and then they chain BTE's into Mauler T2, I'm generally sitting at 12 by close of turn. That doesn't leave much wiggle room for getting stable. The problem is that on the draw, at best we have 1 open mana when they get the combo off from their opener.
So am I right that the only options are to run either Geistflame or (less reliably) Tragic Slip?
Electrickery is also an option for killing the Mauler. That's about the only other option I can see at instant speed. How many 1-toughness creatures does that deck run?
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I run the exact same black mana base as you...12 sources. I figured BB would be too difficult.
I'm gonna have to start testing Victim of Night and also Underworld Connections.
This exactly, haven't had any troubles at all vs Control but vs mono red I have had very limited success. Lingering souls is a trap in that matchup since blocking to hold off their threats in reality doesn't gain you that much as you dont really have big threats that will defensively hold the board, Olivia may work but honestly, may come down a turn of too too late to not be dead
Also I think orzhov charm is a bit too greedy hehe getting stuck with it in hand is not too uncommon and completely kills the game
What SB configuration would you guys recommend for that? And what MB options should I change?
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Me too bro, card is pure nuts if you don't have a clock going against you.
Anyone try that list Zem posted out?
Here it is for reference -
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Ash Zealot
4 Knight of Infamy
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Falkenrath Aristocrat
1 Hellrider
Spells
2 Boros Charm
2 Dreadbore
4 Lingering Souls
4 Searing Spear
4 Blood Crypt
2 Clifftop Retreat
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Godless Shrine
4 Sacred Foundry
5 Mountain
1 Mountain
1 Dreadbore
1 Aurelia's Fury
1 Rakdos's Return
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Bonfire of the Damned
3 Thundermaw Hellkite
3 Hound of Griselbrand
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Take the Ham Challenge.
These hyper-aggro Gruul lists are getting under my skin a bit. If I take a shock T1 or T2 and then they chain BTE's into Mauler T2, I'm generally sitting at 12 by close of turn. That doesn't leave much wiggle room for getting stable. The problem is that on the draw, at best we have 1 open mana when they get the combo off from their opener.
So am I right that the only options are to run either Geistflame or (less reliably) Tragic Slip?
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Ash Zealot
4 Knight of Infamy
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Falkenrath Aristocrat
3 Hellrider
2 Stonewright
4 Searing Spear
2 Dreadbore
2 Pillar of Flame
Land 23
4 Blood Crypt
4 Dragonskull Summit
2 Godless Shrine
2 Swamp
11 Mountain
2 Ultimate Price
2 Volcanic Strength
1 Pillar of Flame
2 Mizzium Mortars
3 Duress
3 Hound of Griselbrand
2 Tribute to Hunger
also to ask is Victim of the Night really good as in can it fit my mana? Sometimes I am stuck with black cards in hand and cannot cast them even with 12 black sources =/ isn't playing a BB card really asking for it?
I've been wondering the same thing and I'm gonna test it tonight.
Someone posted a page or two back their decklist and said they run Victim of Night with BB cost just fine with 12 black sources
I'm dubious. I'd prefer something like >16 black sources in the least. Of course it all depends on what you are trying to get rid of, T2 Ash Zealots or T7 Obzedats
Youtube Channel
Dreadbore kills everything and more and it's easier to cast and for that it gives up instant speed for sorcery speed.
The only issue with that strategy that I see is that - unless they play a turn 1 Noble or turn 2 Mauler - Geistflame is really anemic.
Of course, if they don't play a turn 1 Noble or turn 2 Mauler, you're probably not looking too poor anyway...
BTW, after playing around with Dega for a little bit, I think I'm going to go back to straight Dos Rakis. Boros Charm is strong, but not strong enough to run 4-6 more shocklands for with all the heavy Aggro running around.
—Jaya Ballard, task mage
I've always likes Hellrider, but it's still competing with Brimstone for the slots. I really enjoy having 10 removal/burn spells.
+EDIT+ ...bro.
—Jaya Ballard, task mage
Yea me too, I think I ran 14-16 when I was running Underworld Connections.
He said its there when he needs it but idk... I want to test it myself. Probably would require swapping Mountains for Guildgates.
This is what I was looking for...some math to save me some time.
Could you link me where you got that info man?
Youtube Channel
See, I find myself sometimes having too many burn and not enough creatures sometimes enough as it is.
To each his own :)...bro
From Hamfactorial's Hypergeometric thread that's stickied. Scroll down to the table where it says "Chance to draw at least 2 by turn (on draw)"
Good call...
I need to get out more...my bookmark just brings me to this thread haah
With many R Aggro decks deciding to run VS - some of them MD even - I like having a certain number of answers to that problem.
Especially since K described losing to MD VStrength as "the very worst feeling in the world".
—Jaya Ballard, task mage
Do you really think Brimstone Volley helps though against VS on a creature? I guess if you trigger Morbid. Maybe my deck just hates me and I'm stuck on 2 mana too often and got pissed off at Brimestone Volley
I kinda see Dreadbore as my answer to VS. They might hit me for it one turn, but regardless of the toughness with the VS, its gonna die on my next turn.
Its nice how those of us who have been here a while all do really well with our own little versions of the deck. Been tweaking and testing for what, 5 months now?
Electrickery is also an option for killing the Mauler. That's about the only other option I can see at instant speed. How many 1-toughness creatures does that deck run?
The world is on fire
and you are here to stay and burn with me.