LP, I'm checking your article out as well. Behind all of your swag is the brain of one of the most intelligent Magic players I've ever known. I guess that's one more thing for you to add to the wall of ego that is your Sally sig.
I can go with that. LK, you are the Mace Windu of red mages...cool, tempered logic in deliberation, but capable of just flat kicking tail when the situation warrants it.
Ended up going 4-1 in online tourney and here just some thoughts. This list was very similar to what I had intended on running, but I had not thought of a sb yet so I just followed yours Christen.
The deck play exactly like you might think, staying very true to RDW. However our white splashes create some really awesome interactions.
Slayer's Stronghold -> Azh Zealot. Enough said. (the haste on stronghold also really likes to be combine with wolf or reckoner!)
Boros Charm is the greatest thing ever. I really caught myself wishing I had a flames of the firebrand against 2 of the zombie decks I played last night. With the power of boros charm, I think I am going to drop two searing spears and try to FotF.
Boros Reckoner is a boss. I never found myself without the proper mana to cast him, and now with the shocklands, I truely don't mind paying 2 life to set up crazy combos.
Spark Trooper is now the Thragtusk of RDW. Assuming your opponent isn't holding a counter, this card won many games for me. Simply because it allowed me one or two more turns to swing with Hellriders and play charms. I think two is the perfect number here. Ideally you would want to draw Hellrider over him, but seeing him in your hand will never be a disappointment.
As for the Sideboard: I really liked rest in peace, it is valuable in almost every matchup. Oblivion ring did not see much play, simply because I never really needed it. I think I would prefer mizzium mortars in this spot. Skullcrask is exactly what we thought it would be. It allows bad draws to stall turn 4-6 incase your opponent casts Sphinx's. I really liked it against Faith's Shield as well.
Some cards I want to look into are Stonewright and Truefire Paladin, I will probably test these tonight. Paladin in place or combined with LM just to see if early game vigilance might be better than haste.
^ thanks for the testing notes. Some good stuff to think about there. 4 Oblivion Ring and even the glaring spotlight both seem like overkill ~ I imagine the Spark Troopers are devasting against Bant Enchant anyway (~12 point lifeswing), so I like to solve problems like that as aggressively as possible ~ more consistent with your plan A and cuts down on the number of draw steps they have to dig themselves out of the hole they're in.
Re: Thalia
She seems really good in the board, but pretty toxic in the maindeck unless you're running the bare minimum amount of burn. She can really hurt your own early game sequencing, so she seems a lot better post-board against decks where you are cutting removal.
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I'm testing a similar list, however I dropped the pyreheart wolf for frontline medic and it's been working out very well. Frontline medic doesn't push through damage to the opponent as well as pyreheart, but he creates similar frustrating blocking situations for the opponent and the ability to counter a sphinx's revelation, bonfire or aurelia's fury has been bonkers.
main differences are truefire for lightning mauler main and silverblade for hellrider main. I'm trying more of a value creature approach and the paladin is much better than mauler in a vacuum. He can stop waves of creatures all on his own while still being offensive. Awesome when paired with silverblade or nearheath pilgrim as well.
I liked spark trooper more than I thought I would, although I think I like nearheath pilgrim more. spark trooper is better in a vacuum, but nearheath pilgrim lowers the curve and can easily accomplish the same life swings (over and over).
boros reckoner is a house. 4-of recommended no matter what sort of list you're running. coupled with frontline medic is even better.
also, stromkirk noble + silverblade paladin is a house. Lots of humans running around so stromkirk is very hard to block. When he has double strike he can get very big very fast.
edit: thinking about it more I'm going to drop the cacklers for another nearheath pilgrim and 3 pillars. cackler just isn't as much of an all-star without hellrider and lightning mauler.
vs Bant Control, I would rip out Cacklers and Maulers, swap in Thalia and Spark Trooper.
Many other decks will have me siding in mortars taking out cacklers or nobles.
Bant Aura I would stick with the basic plan and side in O-Ring to deal with Blind Obedience.
In fact any deck with Blind Obedience would have me siding in O-rings. O-Rings are my exile removal as well.
Spark Trooper is a test I would swap in vs any deck that I thought I could get away with it. I want to see how he performs in the real world. I think vs Zombies he would be good, vs the mirror bad. Vs Mono-red bad, vs Thragtusk.dec good.
I have seen the light that Glaring Spotlight is not going to work in my deck and just let others run it since there are a lot of decks in my meta that hate the Bant Hexproof deck. They can hate it out for me. To aide in that if I get any I will trade them off to players who will use them.
I liked spark trooper more than I thought I would, although I think I like nearheath pilgrim more. spark trooper is better in a vacuum, but nearheath pilgrim lowers the curve and can easily accomplish the same life swings (over and over).
Oh, I like that. Pairing Nearheath Pilgrim to reckoner will be brutal as well. I like the lower curve. I will make that change.
Congratulations and thanks for the notes! I was considering the 4 Oblivion Rings to be a bit too many myself. O-Rings are there for opposing enchantments, and harder to remove threats. In other cases, we can settle with Mizzium Mortars or other spot removal for a number. I'm comfortable with 1-2 Oblivion Rings personally.
Glaring Spotlight might get the cut since it only addresses Hexproof, and we're much faster than that deck considering all options. We are considering Blind Obedience in the sideboard because it significantly improves our aggro and midrange matchups.
Other questions, do you think we still need some amount of Pillar of Flame in the 75? Rest in Peace addresses our zombie matchup already. Did you have any problems with the manabase and do you think guildgates would hurt it?
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Don't sideboard RIP against Zombies. That isn't how you attack that matchup.
I was going to ask why not, then while typing my original post I slowly understood it. RIP only prevents recurring threats on the other side. If you can't deal with them in the first place, then RIP is a dead card.
Right now, the SB needs more cards to deal with the zombie matchup. If I'm on the draw, I'm siding out Cackler and Mauler. Those are some 8-slots to be filled and I think a number of O-Rings will automatically be there (Aristocrats, Maws). Boros Reckoner blocks Geralfs all day.
As for the maindeck, Maulers are fast, though they lack some power to push through at times so switching them with cards like Truefire Paladin or Wojek Halberdiers seems ok. We'd still need to test with the new 2-drops.
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The debate for me seems to be between running boros sligh for boros reckoner and boros charm or Gruul for flinthoof boar, rancor, wolfir silverheart...
this pretty much. boros charm and frontline medic are just sooo good against supreme verdict or even creating massive card advantage on a swing into a field of blockers. frontline medic's ability to say no to stuff like bonfire, aurelia's fury, and sphinx's revelation is worth ton's to aggro.
The fact that you can threaten to use boros charm to eat half their creatures if they do block, or give one of your guys double strike if they don't is just downright nasty.
boros reckoner simply shuts down aggro. Especially red aggro with no way to really get rid of it without doing damage. Every time I've played it it's at least a 2 for 1.
At the same time gruul is sooo fast. I love the way it gets in and even puts other aggro decks on the defensive right off the bat.
I'd love to find some way to combine gruul's speed with boros' power and options. Maybe some kind of naya build, but I have no idea how to build that horrible monstrosity to be anything resembling reliable.
on another note. What does everyone think of using assemble the legion as another tool against control?
boros reckoner simply shuts down aggro. Especially red aggro with no way to really get rid of it without doing damage. Every time I've played it it's at least a 2 for 1.
It is actually disgusting honestly. Same with Zombie decks ~ their only out is Dreadbore, whcih they don't normally run anymore.
I'd love to find some way to combine gruul's speed with boros' power and options. Maybe some kind of naya build, but I have no idea how to build that horrible monstrosity to be anything resembling reliable.
There are some example decks in the Naya (Zoo) thread
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LP, I'm checking your article out as well. Behind all of your swag is the brain of one of the most intelligent Magic players I've ever known. I guess that's one more thing for you to add to the wall of ego that is your Sally sig.
I can go with that. LK, you are the Mace Windu of red mages...cool, tempered logic in deliberation, but capable of just flat kicking tail when the situation warrants it.
I dunno how good this play is since you stromkirk noble is a magnet for removal anyway, but boros charming him to give him double strike turn 2 will put them at 17 and he's a 3/3, or if he's already a 2/2 he'll do 5 and end up being a 4/4 (out of burn range).
I usually want to play more dudes instead but I've kept hands i probably shouldn't have in testing just to see more lines of play and this has happened sometimes.
There are some example decks in the Naya (Zoo) thread
The problem with Zoo, of course, is the mana base. Honestly, after looking at the theoretical Zoo lists, they don't bring anything to the table aside from inconsistency. Boros and Gruul are plenty fast and powerful on their own.
Frontline medic actually doesn't do anything to supreme verdict but it IS strong against sphinx's revelation.
I'm still real iffy on Medic. I acknowledge that it's arguably the 2nd best human 3-drop, but I'm afraid that it's just going to be a 3/3 vanilla in a majority of matches. I look at Battalion as a mere bonus and don't realistically see myself leaning on the mechanic very often. It will no doubt come in handy, but more often than not it will be a non-issue.
Then, when analyzing the X spells, you realize that Medic is just meh vs. aggro, decent vs. Midrange (will you see that Bonfire?) and a beast vs. control (hose the wincon). I think a lot of Medic's MB playability will be predicated on the how saturated the meta is with Aurelia's Fury. Then again, the human tribe doesn't have many other options.
I like woj's list, although I still advocate giving up pyreheart wolf for frontline medic. I'd use lightning mauler over the halberdiers.
I still would like to see truefire paladin included, but he's just very clunky.
I think the end all be all will probably simply be a regular red list with a light white splash. I like the fact that we can bring in stuff like nearheath pilgrim and blind obedience out of the board to help shore up the mirror.
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I don't like Thalia maindaick because at times, i find myself double casting spears/charms on t5 to win the game. I don't think we can afford to have her down. Also, 4 Boros Charms is a must. The card is amazing.
I tested Wojek Halberdiers instead of 4 LM, and they arn't too bad. They are what the GHC should of been. But I really like the later game option of being able to drop a 1-drop with a LM.
I like woj's list, although I still advocate giving up pyreheart wolf for frontline medic. I'd use lightning mauler over the halberdiers.
I still would like to see truefire paladin included, but he's just very clunky.
I think the end all be all will probably simply be a regular red list with a light white splash. I like the fact that we can bring in stuff like nearheath pilgrim and blind obedience out of the board to help shore up the mirror.
Although they fit in different points of the curve, I think Reckoner and Truefire fill rather similar roles vs. Midrange. This, IMO, makes Truefire a bit less appealing, especially in heavier R lists not running Silverblade.
I think the human variants that can't run Reckoner are going to at least be very content with Truefire and the synergy he boasts with Silverblade.
It does looks like everyone is going to eventually drift over toward heavier red lists, primarily because of Reckoner. I'm stubborn though, so I'm sticking with my tribe.
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I really want boros to be the best deck out of Gatecrash. We have all the tools. We have all the mana. We have UNLIMITED POWEEEEEEEER!!!!
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Stromkirk Noble
2 Stonewright
4 Ash Zealot
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Pyreheart Wolf
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Hellrider
3 Searing Spear
4 Boros Charm
2 Brimstone Volley
Lands (23)
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Clifftop Retreat
2 Boros Guildgate
2 Slayers' Stronghold
9 Mountain
2 Plains
Something like that, very similar to OPs.
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Ash Zealot
4 Lightning Mauler
3 Pyreheart Wolf
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Hellrider
2 Spark Trooper
4 Boros Charm
4 Searing Spear
Lands
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Clifftop Retreat
2 Slayers' Stronghold
10 Mountain
3 Plains
3 Skullcrack
4 Oblivion Ring
3 Rest in Peace
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Glaring Spotlight
Ended up going 4-1 in online tourney and here just some thoughts. This list was very similar to what I had intended on running, but I had not thought of a sb yet so I just followed yours Christen.
The deck play exactly like you might think, staying very true to RDW. However our white splashes create some really awesome interactions.
Slayer's Stronghold -> Azh Zealot. Enough said. (the haste on stronghold also really likes to be combine with wolf or reckoner!)
Boros Charm is the greatest thing ever. I really caught myself wishing I had a flames of the firebrand against 2 of the zombie decks I played last night. With the power of boros charm, I think I am going to drop two searing spears and try to FotF.
Boros Reckoner is a boss. I never found myself without the proper mana to cast him, and now with the shocklands, I truely don't mind paying 2 life to set up crazy combos.
Spark Trooper is now the Thragtusk of RDW. Assuming your opponent isn't holding a counter, this card won many games for me. Simply because it allowed me one or two more turns to swing with Hellriders and play charms. I think two is the perfect number here. Ideally you would want to draw Hellrider over him, but seeing him in your hand will never be a disappointment.
As for the Sideboard: I really liked rest in peace, it is valuable in almost every matchup. Oblivion ring did not see much play, simply because I never really needed it. I think I would prefer mizzium mortars in this spot. Skullcrask is exactly what we thought it would be. It allows bad draws to stall turn 4-6 incase your opponent casts Sphinx's. I really liked it against Faith's Shield as well.
Some cards I want to look into are Stonewright and Truefire Paladin, I will probably test these tonight. Paladin in place or combined with LM just to see if early game vigilance might be better than haste.
Re: Thalia
She seems really good in the board, but pretty toxic in the maindeck unless you're running the bare minimum amount of burn. She can really hurt your own early game sequencing, so she seems a lot better post-board against decks where you are cutting removal.
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I'm testing a similar list, however I dropped the pyreheart wolf for frontline medic and it's been working out very well. Frontline medic doesn't push through damage to the opponent as well as pyreheart, but he creates similar frustrating blocking situations for the opponent and the ability to counter a sphinx's revelation, bonfire or aurelia's fury has been bonkers.
4 clifftop retreat
2 plains
10 mountain
2 cavern of souls
1 slayers' stronghold
4 stromkirk noble
4 ash zealot
4 truefire paladin
4 boros reckoner
4 silverblade paladin
3 frontline medic
3 nearheath pilgrim
4 searing spear
3 pillar of flame
2 blind obedience
3 flames of the firebrand
1 nearheath pilgrim
4 thalia
1 frontline medic
1 pillar of flame
3 rest in peace
I liked spark trooper more than I thought I would, although I think I like nearheath pilgrim more. spark trooper is better in a vacuum, but nearheath pilgrim lowers the curve and can easily accomplish the same life swings (over and over).
boros reckoner is a house. 4-of recommended no matter what sort of list you're running. coupled with frontline medic is even better.
also, stromkirk noble + silverblade paladin is a house. Lots of humans running around so stromkirk is very hard to block. When he has double strike he can get very big very fast.
edit: thinking about it more I'm going to drop the cacklers for another nearheath pilgrim and 3 pillars. cackler just isn't as much of an all-star without hellrider and lightning mauler.
Modern:
Twinning End
Commander:
Mayael the Anema
4 rakdos cacker
4 ash zealot
4 truefire paladin
3 lightning mauler
4 boros reckoner
2 frontline medic
4 hellrider
4 searing spear
4 sacred foundry
4 clifftop retreat
2 boros guildgate
2 slayers' stronghold
11 mountain
3 Spark Trooper
3 Oblivion Ring
4 mizzium mortars
2 rest in peace
3 Thalia
vs Bant Control, I would rip out Cacklers and Maulers, swap in Thalia and Spark Trooper.
Many other decks will have me siding in mortars taking out cacklers or nobles.
Bant Aura I would stick with the basic plan and side in O-Ring to deal with Blind Obedience.
In fact any deck with Blind Obedience would have me siding in O-rings. O-Rings are my exile removal as well.
Spark Trooper is a test I would swap in vs any deck that I thought I could get away with it. I want to see how he performs in the real world. I think vs Zombies he would be good, vs the mirror bad. Vs Mono-red bad, vs Thragtusk.dec good.
I have seen the light that Glaring Spotlight is not going to work in my deck and just let others run it since there are a lot of decks in my meta that hate the Bant Hexproof deck. They can hate it out for me. To aide in that if I get any I will trade them off to players who will use them.
Oh, I like that. Pairing Nearheath Pilgrim to reckoner will be brutal as well. I like the lower curve. I will make that change.
Glaring Spotlight might get the cut since it only addresses Hexproof, and we're much faster than that deck considering all options. We are considering Blind Obedience in the sideboard because it significantly improves our aggro and midrange matchups.
Other questions, do you think we still need some amount of Pillar of Flame in the 75? Rest in Peace addresses our zombie matchup already. Did you have any problems with the manabase and do you think guildgates would hurt it?
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I think in my control based meta boros sligh will get have the edge?
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I was going to ask why not, then while typing my original post I slowly understood it. RIP only prevents recurring threats on the other side. If you can't deal with them in the first place, then RIP is a dead card.
Right now, the SB needs more cards to deal with the zombie matchup. If I'm on the draw, I'm siding out Cackler and Mauler. Those are some 8-slots to be filled and I think a number of O-Rings will automatically be there (Aristocrats, Maws). Boros Reckoner blocks Geralfs all day.
Anyway, sideboarding needs some good plan.
3 Rest in Peace
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Mizzium Mortars
1 Blind Obedience
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
As for the maindeck, Maulers are fast, though they lack some power to push through at times so switching them with cards like Truefire Paladin or Wojek Halberdiers seems ok. We'd still need to test with the new 2-drops.
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this pretty much. boros charm and frontline medic are just sooo good against supreme verdict or even creating massive card advantage on a swing into a field of blockers. frontline medic's ability to say no to stuff like bonfire, aurelia's fury, and sphinx's revelation is worth ton's to aggro.
The fact that you can threaten to use boros charm to eat half their creatures if they do block, or give one of your guys double strike if they don't is just downright nasty.
boros reckoner simply shuts down aggro. Especially red aggro with no way to really get rid of it without doing damage. Every time I've played it it's at least a 2 for 1.
At the same time gruul is sooo fast. I love the way it gets in and even puts other aggro decks on the defensive right off the bat.
I'd love to find some way to combine gruul's speed with boros' power and options. Maybe some kind of naya build, but I have no idea how to build that horrible monstrosity to be anything resembling reliable.
on another note. What does everyone think of using assemble the legion as another tool against control?
Modern:
Twinning End
Commander:
Mayael the Anema
It is actually disgusting honestly. Same with Zombie decks ~ their only out is Dreadbore, whcih they don't normally run anymore.
There are some example decks in the Naya (Zoo) thread
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I usually want to play more dudes instead but I've kept hands i probably shouldn't have in testing just to see more lines of play and this has happened sometimes.
The problem with Zoo, of course, is the mana base. Honestly, after looking at the theoretical Zoo lists, they don't bring anything to the table aside from inconsistency. Boros and Gruul are plenty fast and powerful on their own.
I'm still real iffy on Medic. I acknowledge that it's arguably the 2nd best human 3-drop, but I'm afraid that it's just going to be a 3/3 vanilla in a majority of matches. I look at Battalion as a mere bonus and don't realistically see myself leaning on the mechanic very often. It will no doubt come in handy, but more often than not it will be a non-issue.
Then, when analyzing the X spells, you realize that Medic is just meh vs. aggro, decent vs. Midrange (will you see that Bonfire?) and a beast vs. control (hose the wincon). I think a lot of Medic's MB playability will be predicated on the how saturated the meta is with Aurelia's Fury. Then again, the human tribe doesn't have many other options.
4xRakdos Cackler
4xStromkirk Noble
2xstonewright
4xAsh zealot
4xLightning Mauler / Wojek Halberdiers
3xPyreheart Wolf
4xBoros ravager
4xHellrider
23 – Land
4x sacred foundry
4x clifftop
1x slayers strong hold
2x plains
10 x mountains
Instant / Sorcery
4 boros charm
4 searing spear
Thoughts?
I still would like to see truefire paladin included, but he's just very clunky.
I think the end all be all will probably simply be a regular red list with a light white splash. I like the fact that we can bring in stuff like nearheath pilgrim and blind obedience out of the board to help shore up the mirror.
Modern:
Twinning End
Commander:
Mayael the Anema
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Rakdos Cackler
2 Stonewright
4 Ash Zealot
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Lightning Mauler
4 Boros Reckoner
2 Silverblade Paladin
4 Sublime Archangel
2 Pillar of Flame
4 Searing Spear
2 Boros Charm
land (22)
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Clifftop Retreat
2 Boros Guildgate
10 Mountain
2 Plains
looks like this could create alot of tactical boardstates and I like options, and if it doesn't work out I'll probably go back to pyreheart+hellrider.
I tested Wojek Halberdiers instead of 4 LM, and they arn't too bad. They are what the GHC should of been. But I really like the later game option of being able to drop a 1-drop with a LM.
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Although they fit in different points of the curve, I think Reckoner and Truefire fill rather similar roles vs. Midrange. This, IMO, makes Truefire a bit less appealing, especially in heavier R lists not running Silverblade.
I think the human variants that can't run Reckoner are going to at least be very content with Truefire and the synergy he boasts with Silverblade.
It does looks like everyone is going to eventually drift over toward heavier red lists, primarily because of Reckoner. I'm stubborn though, so I'm sticking with my tribe.
This was start of t4:
Play Plains and Pyreheart Wolf?
Play Plains, attack, and keep mana open for Boros Charm in case of Verdict?
Wait this should be the wrong thread for this.
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