How to beat Jund-Midrange

  • #1
    I hafe hard times with my Boros and Gruul decks Vs Jund Midrange
    They seem to hafe always a removal (apprupt decay, Victim, Murder) on hand.
    And when i try to speedkill them they use Boardwhipes like Rolling Tremble..


    After some removals they use Midrange Creatures like Huntmaster / Olivia / Thargdusk and winn with those against my creatures..

    what shall i sideboard against a Jund-Midrange Decks ?
  • #2
    Midrange is supposed to beat aggro, especially if they build their deck for it. Current Jund lists do pretty much that and there's not much we can do besides drawing better than they do. Thalia can help to some extent, slowing them down, but overall it's pretty tough to beat them with Rx aggro right now. If control were more popular and they had to be more prepared to face them, their deck might become slower which would be good for us but as it looks, they might become even faster instead to be able to reliably beat decks like the Naya Blitz one that won GP Quebec.
    You can't learn technical play from staring at decklists.
    - Ari Lax
  • #3
    Sideboard into sledgehammer was the original plan, zemanjaski came up with.
    The Heir to Rakdos
  • #4
    The issue for them is that unlike many of the midrange decks, their creatures cap out at 3 toughness. They run fewer threats, so we tend to run them over with threat density unless they are hitting consistent removal. Reckoner can be a kick in the teeth as half their removal is burn; if you get underneath with a good run in the first few turns, it's just a question of keeping some pressure on. If they can't control your creatures, they can't win.
    Common Sense is now a Mythic Rare.
  • #5
    Yup! When I play against Jund, I board my big dudes in and just throw creatures at them until they give up and die. I've boarded into a 24 land 32 creature 4 Searing Spear deck before.


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  • #6
    With them running Decay, Murder and T-slip main, Reckoner isn't that much of a problem for them anymore and frankly, their deck consists solely of cards that are a pain in the ass for us: Removal, Thragtusk/Huntmaster/Olivia/Nighthawks, Planeswalkers. The only card that doesn't directly pain us is Farseek, but realistically, it is worse than all of the others.


    I could totally see myself boarding in stuff like Hounds or Thundermaws, but I haven't run either of those for ages and wouldn't even know what to replace in my board. Plus, being as land-light as I am anyway, that doesn't seem too appealing either :x
    You can't learn technical play from staring at decklists.
    - Ari Lax
  • #7
    Quote from Disil »
    With them running Decay, Murder and T-slip main, Reckoner isn't that much of a problem for them anymore and frankly, their deck consists solely of cards that are a pain in the ass for us: Removal, Thragtusk/Huntmaster/Olivia/Nighthawks, Planeswalkers. The only card that doesn't directly pain us is Farseek, but realistically, it is worse than all of the others.


    I could totally see myself boarding in stuff like Hounds or Thundermaws, but I haven't run either of those for ages and wouldn't even know what to replace in my board. Plus, being as land-light as I am anyway, that doesn't seem too appealing either :x


    i'm having more issues with Vampire Nighhawk than anything else in this m/u. I was thinking switching Pillar of Flame for something that can kill nighthawk might be worthwhile.





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  • #8
    I am starting think there is no way to kill jund midrange...
  • #9
    Quote from Purp
    I am starting think there is no way to kill jund midrange...

    you could go bant run jk :p but most decks have a weakness you just have to try out different things like when I beat jund its not because I run more board wipes which I do. it's because of card advantage between life gain wraths and card drawing
  • #10
    Quote from midnight_v
    Sideboard into sledgehammer was the original plan, zemanjaski came up with.


    This. Playing Jund over the past few weeks, I side out all my 1 drops (cackler, noble) bring it mortars and some steal effects. Hounds (which I run main) gives them fits because it completely dodges decay and only loses bad to pillar. If you are on the gruul plan, get a rancor on something early and beat. If you can get them into top deck mode, the game is done. They run next to no card advantage, so anything that 2-1's them hurts them bad. It's tough, but doable.
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  • #11
    Quote from katrenary
    This. Playing Jund over the past few weeks, I side out all my 1 drops (cackler, noble) bring it mortars and some steal effects. Hounds (which I run main) gives them fits because it completely dodges decay and only loses bad to pillar. If you are on the gruul plan, get a rancor on something early and beat. If you can get them into top deck mode, the game is done. They run next to no card advantage, so anything that 2-1's them hurts them bad. It's tough, but doable.


    Junds card advantage dose not come from drawing more cards. It comes from them always looking for the two for one on you. The whole deck has that in mind from Huntmaster, Thragtusk, Olivia, Garruk, Liliana and Bonfire.
  • #12
    I played against a Mono R deck in my LSG's both Game Day finals, and lost 1-2 both times. On sunday I played against the deck for fun and lost 0-2. My deck didn't run Pillars, and it was probably variance, but the deck was really hard for me to beat. He was a good pilot too. Pyreheart Wolf was *extremely* good. Boros Reckoner, on the other hand, is very easy to deal with. If you wanna beat VNH Jund, I'd play Wolf over Reckoner.

    Of course, if i had played 4 Pillars and a few more removal, the games would have been different. But I think any aggro deck should try to go under Thragtusk against Jund. it's the most solid plan IMO.
  • #13
    Quote from katrenary »
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by midnight_v

    Sideboard into sledgehammer was the original plan, zemanjaski came up with.

    This. Playing Jund over the past few weeks, I side out all my 1 drops (cackler, noble) bring it mortars and some steal effects. Hounds (which I run main) gives them fits because it completely dodges decay and only loses bad to pillar. If you are on the gruul plan, get a rancor on something early and beat. If you can get them into top deck mode, the game is done. They run next to no card advantage, so anything that 2-1's them hurts them bad. It's tough, but doable.


    Could you post your 75? I'm curious how you managed to shoehorn that all in there.

    Is Sledgehammer still a valid strategy? Run basically the same the same as before but with 4 reckoners in the MB instead of wolf?

    How many Hound of Griselbrand are you running MB? Is it working?

    In the other thread we were discussing the posibility of Knight of Glory and I think it might be worth testing.


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  • #14
    Quote from hamfactorial
    Yup! When I play against Jund, I board my big dudes in and just throw creatures at them until they give up and die. I've boarded into a 24 land 32 creature 4 Searing Spear deck before.


    As a Jund player, I've played against someone that does this... and I have to tell you it can be a pain if you sideboard in that 2/2 first strike undying guy and just other dudes that do well in combat against jund. Especially if the Jund player doesn't figure this out. If they figure this out... they can just sideboard into stuff like Sever the Bloodline. Normally I expect siding out 1 drops and bringing in Mortars, Conscripts.
  • #15
    Quote from DarkRitual
    As a Jund player, I've played against someone that does this... and I have to tell you it can be a pain if you sideboard in that 2/2 first strike undying guy and just other dudes that do well in combat against jund. Especially if the Jund player doesn't figure this out. If they figure this out... they can just sideboard into stuff like Sever the Bloodline. Normally I expect siding out 1 drops and bringing in Mortars, Conscripts.


    Hamfactorial and I come at Jund on more equal footing than most in that we run Rb (and my case Rbw). When I'm running 1.75x the number of creatures as Jund along with a healthy helping of burn and black removal, I have eventuality on my side unless Jund can hit Bonfires. Once I get an Aristocrat in the air with protection for her on the ground, I'm usually running the game clock.
    Common Sense is now a Mythic Rare.
  • #16
    Quote from DarkRitual
    As a Jund player, I've played against someone that does this... and I have to tell you it can be a pain if you sideboard in that 2/2 first strike undying guy and just other dudes that do well in combat against jund. Especially if the Jund player doesn't figure this out. If they figure this out... they can just sideboard into stuff like Sever the Bloodline. Normally I expect siding out 1 drops and bringing in Mortars, Conscripts.


    Thank you for this. It's useful to know what players of the opposing deck do not want to see.

    Other than Hound of Griselbrand, is there anything else?
  • #17
    Has anyone tried steal effects in the SB? That was one of the strategies vs jund last season, and it may still make sense.


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  • #18
    Quote from Johnny_Spike
    Has anyone tried steal effects in the SB? That was one of the strategies vs jund last season, and it may still make sense.


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    Yep, I run 3 conscripts and a traitorous blood in the side. I just drop all my 1 drops and bring in mortars and these guys and try to grind them down.
    Quote from (cryogen)
    EDH is like French fries: some people like waffle cut, crinkle cut, or plain old straight cut, and while there's slight flavor difference and personal preference, at the end of the day they're still fries.
  • #19
    Both Blasphemous Act (clogged boards, Reckoner combo to finish) and Thunderbolt (Nighthawk, Olivia, to the face/PWs) seem like they could help out in this matchup too. Having instant 4dmg especially seems very strong versus Olivia who easily slips out of Spear Range once the game (and landcount) has advanced a little.
    You can't learn technical play from staring at decklists.
    - Ari Lax
  • #20
    Quote from Disil
    Both Blasphemous Act (clogged boards, Reckoner combo to finish) and Thunderbolt (Nighthawk, Olivia, to the face/PWs) seem like they could help out in this matchup too. Having instant 4dmg especially seems very strong versus Olivia who easily slips out of Spear Range once the game (and landcount) has advanced a little.


    I'm going to try this out this week at FNM and see how it goes. I'll post results either way.

    Johnny_Spike's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creatures (24)
    4 Stromkirk Noble
    4 Rakdos Cackler
    1 Stonewright
    4 Ash Zealot
    3 Lightning Mauler
    4 Boros Reckoner
    4 Hellrider

    Spells (14)
    4 Searing Spear
    3 Boros Charm
    4 Pillar of Flame
    3 Oblivion Ring

    Land (22)
    4 Clifftop Retreat
    4 Sacred Foundry
    12 Mountain
    2 Plains



    I figure SB plan VS jund will be:

    On the Draw

    +4 Traitorous Blood, +2 Hound of Griselbrand / Blasphemous Act

    -4 Rakdos Cackler, -2 Pillar of Flame

    On the Play

    +4 Traitorous Blood, +3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, -4 Pillar of Flame, -3 Lightning Mauler

    Thoughts? Feel free to tell me if you think this is a bad plan.
  • #21
    Quote from Johnny_Spike »
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Disil

    Both Blasphemous Act (clogged boards, Reckoner combo to finish) and Thunderbolt (Nighthawk, Olivia, to the face/PWs) seem like they could help out in this matchup too. Having instant 4dmg especially seems very strong versus Olivia who easily slips out of Spear Range once the game (and landcount) has advanced a little.

    I'm going to try this out this week at FNM and see how it goes. I'll post results either way.

    IMAGE#1 IMAGE#2 IMAGE#3

    Deck  Creatures (24)
    4 Stromkirk Noble
    4 Rakdos Cackler
    1 Stonewright
    4 Ash Zealot
    3 Lightning Mauler
    4 Boros Reckoner
    4 Hellrider

    Spells (14)
    4 Searing Spear
    3 Boros Charm
    4 Pillar of Flame
    3 Oblivion Ring
    Land (22)
    4 Clifftop Retreat
    4 Sacred Foundry
    12 Mountain
    2 Plains
    Sideboard (15)
    2 Electrickery
    4 Volcanic Strength
    2 Hound of Griselbrand (or maybe Blasphemous Act)
    4 Traitorous Blood
    3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

    I figure SB plan VS jund will be:

    On the Draw

    +4 Traitorous Blood, +2 Hound of Griselbrand / Blasphemous Act

    -4 Rakdos Cackler, -2 Pillar of Flame

    On the Play

    +4 Traitorous Blood, +3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, -4 Pillar of Flame, -3 Lightning Mauler

    Thoughts? Feel free to tell me if you think this is a bad plan.


    Might even try moving the boros charms to the SB all together like NovaJoe. I think Thalia seems strong vs farseek / removal, but I may be insane.


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  • #22
    Going big is probably the best strategy I have found. Siding in two blasphemous acts, Mizzium Mortars, Thunderbolt,Zealus Conscripts, a mountain, and a third Thundermaw Hellkite is generally enough to keep up
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  • #23
    Quote from dandaman541 »
    Going big is probably the best strategy I have found. Siding in two blasphemous acts, Mizzium Mortars, Thunderbolt, Zealus Conscripts, a mountain, and a third Thundermaw Hellkite is generally enough to keep up


    Are Blasphemous Acts good vs Jund?



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  • #24
    Quote from Johnny_Spike
    Are Blasphemous Acts good vs Jund?



    Posted from MTGsalvation.com App for Android


    They arn't insane by any means. I usually find them better than a random stromkirk noble in the match up.

    The ability to steal wins out of nowhere is nice too
    Quote from Konstant1n
    I was wondering why Council of the Absolute had the 'non-creature' clause then I remembered... This is modern magic.



    Message me if your interested in sharing mtgo cards

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  • #25
    Quote from dandaman541 »
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Johnny_Spike

    Are Blasphemous Acts good vs Jund?



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    They arn't insane by any means. I usually find them better than a random stromkirk noble in the match up.

    The ability to steal wins out of nowhere is nice too


    I won my FNM this week, but no games against jund so I can't really comment on how well that list was against jund. Not too impressed with KoG in the m/u's I played. Will likely go back to 3/1 Lightning Mauler / stonewright mix.



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