Purify the grave is by far the best graveyard hate for this deck... i helps you to keep yourself on tempo, since most of the time, it will not hurt your curve and might force a missplay, for example, an opponent having a thragtusk in hand and five mana, but an angel of serenity in the grave that might just finish the game right there (as it most of the time does against us)... he will obviously try to reanimate the AoS, if you play purify the grave in response to unburial, you will not only stop AoS, but timewalk them and proceed to win the game right there.
most of the cards that people keeps pushing in this thread are just not "good enough" for this deck.
Boar is Better than any other 2 drop apart from BTE... 3/3 to grow experiment, playable with BTE, haste to trigger batallion, good post veredict, can block if you are in "defense mode".
all of the other creatures that people keeps asking for are just in one or more ways worse.
I've been trying out Hamlet Captain, but he's streaky. Flinthoof is reliably better, so I'm going back to that. I did like growing Champion more often, but he's too slow to trigger most of the time. When he works, he works well, but this deck is already too luck dependent to push any further.
I was having a damn hard time vs Junk Rites and RDW last night. We just can't race RDW when it's heavy on burn, and it feels odd to go on the defensive. Rites, on the other hand, just feels unfair. I've had some success with Ground Seal and Selesyna Charm, but that's about it.
I saw Domri mentioned earlier in the thread, but in the context with some midrange creatures.
I like Domri Rade as a way to restock after running low on gas, and additional removal.
I underestimated Frontline Medic's value and cut them to 2 to fit 2 Domri in; now I'm thinking I'll bump Frontlines to 4 where they belong, and maybe cut the Ghor-Clan Ravager for 1 Domri main, and stick a 2nd in the board.
Any others experimented with Domri in some proportion?
They can actually play around a tormoyd/ground seal/RIP, since most lists play the full list of mana dorks (even some play the 3 cmc one) and some number of farseeks... so, if you play any of those, they can just play around them, hard cast enormous stuff and punch your face anyway.
I've been trying out Hamlet Captain, but he's streaky. Flinthoof is reliably better, so I'm going back to that. I did like growing Champion more often, but he's too slow to trigger most of the time. When he works, he works well, but this deck is already too luck dependent to push any further.
I was having a damn hard time vs Junk Rites and RDW last night. We just can't race RDW when it's heavy on burn, and it feels odd to go on the defensive. Rites, on the other hand, just feels unfair. I've had some success with Ground Seal and Selesyna Charm, but that's about it.
I don't even understand why people even considered hamlet captain, mayor of avabruk is awesome because he has immediate impact on the board, and if it flips it can take over of a game by its own.
For RDW you should really read who is the beatdown if you haven't.
If they are burn heavy, you might also go the burn heavy way against them, remember that our sideboard is mostly removal against match ups like this one, so side in those pacifisms, fiend hunters, FotF and pilgrims, you can side out creatures which are more "aggroish" like elite and mauler
Against junk, well i already talked about how massive is purify the grave, you can take my word or you can ignore it, your choice.
I've played the RDW splash green list a lot and always had no problem against Naya Blitz. The thing is postboard they should just side in all the burn and play the control deck - their creatures are bigger individually than ours if they can keep us off battalion/CotP growing hugely; and FotF is a huge beating. I guess we'd side in the Pacifisms and Fiend Hunters for their Reckoners and Boros Charms for indestructibility maybe? Lightning Maulers and Boros Elites are definitely suboptimal here. But it's not a great matchup - I think we're relying a lot on the fact that they have worse matchups against the rest of the field.
As for Junk Rites I'm still struggling with what to put in. Purify the Grave is obviously huge when they try to reanimate something but often postboard they can win just by Thrags and Restos. The main problem is that too many SB cards will dilute our strategy of hitting hard and fast. It's a tough cookie. I'm thinking maybe Beckon Apparition so that it also makes us a dude?
Purify works well, I just don't like relying on grave hate of any kind if I can help it. Ground Seal is my general pick because it cantrips.
Placed 3rd at FNM last night (35 players). Lost in the semis against Esper Solar Flare. Game 1 I annihilated him. Game 2 I was on the play, kept a 1 land hand and stalled out 5 turns with 1 land so I scooped. Game 2 I had to mulligan to 4, he mulled to 5. I had the opposite problem, lost 3 early threats to removal and then proceeded to hit 6 lands in a row and die to Obzedat.
It was shuffled well before the match, but sometimes bad luck happens. Ah well.
Yeah thats what I mean, it's not good to rely on graveyard hate because it slows us down while doing nothing against their plan of making midrange fatties. The winning lists I've seen don't run any. I'm just wondering if there's something extra techy we can do now that junk rites is becoming more and more popular...
So, I'm looking to build blitz and I was curious about why lists don't run Rancor. It would seem to be an absolute house in this archetype, adding even more power, as well as some resiliency. I'm considering running them over Searing Spear. Am I nuts?
The deck is normally winning by swarming. I can see how rancor would help there in forcing in a bit more damage or forcing the opponent to trade. Not sure it's needed however. Spear does kind of the same thing (if the rancor'd creature trades) with the extra utility of burning someone.
I believe rancor was dropped from the early lists due to reckoner which completely blanks the card. Might be worth taking a look at again, but there's nothing I really want to cut.
Edit:
Concerning the reanimator matchup...
I've never had a problem against the deck out of around 15 DE's. We slide under them and Thalia's good in the matchup. I feel like gy hate is wasted sideboard space when their plan post-board is to go midrange and thragtusk you to death. All of the answers slow us down a bit...and going under their threats is the whole reason we have an advantage in the matchup.
So, I'm looking to build blitz and I was curious about why lists don't run Rancor. It would seem to be an absolute house in this archetype, adding even more power, as well as some resiliency. I'm considering running them over Searing Spear. Am I nuts?
I ran blitz for a few weeks because I love aggro. Ifound Boros Charm much more useful than Rancor or Giant Growth. I had three in my sb and was siding them in every game pretty much. Saving your guys against board sweepers or in combat is so good.....
I've found Rancor to be great, I don't think Boros Reckoner blanks it (any more than it blanks the rest of the deck, obviously it's a house against us). However I'm hoping that R/x aggro decks are over-represented in the metagame because they're easy to acquire and play online? (I myself have managed to borrow a R/g deck but can't afford a naya blitz deck online.)
@Ree: How have you done in 15 DEs?
Also how is the sideboard plan different vs Junk Reanimator and vs Humanimator?
I've been thinking of squeezing in another Ghor-Clan Rampager - so good against Resto Angels and fatties in general. Also maybe 2x Pillar of Flame against mana dorks and Gloom Surgeons which are becoming more popular. Getting rid of mana dorks can be really good against Junk Reanimator, and even better against greedy Midrange decks that run 24-25 lands and rely on their mana dorks to get to their 6 drops.
Probably the first to be cut is Flinthoof Boar as it's great but not a human so doesn't work with CotP/Mayor/Cavern of Souls. (There's even some discussion of swapping him for Hamlet Captain.) And maybe going down from 4 to 3 Frontline Medic, but he's so good.
Rancor is basically another blank card against reckoner when another card you'd have in instead of the enchantment either kills the Minotaur or swarms past it.
I think I've cashed 9 or 10 of them, with 2 4-0's and one split to 2-1-1 as I ended up playing my friend sitting next to me (he also had class). Haven't played in about 2 weeks though.
My sb plans against both are to slide in a Thalia (to make 3, I run 2 main with 1 Nearheath). Sometimes I bring in pacifism/bonds of faith, but mostly only against junk. Humananimator is a very good matchup to begin with so there's not much we need to bring in/have specifically for them.
I can get behind having another rampager, but not so much pillar. Yes, the midrange decks want to ramp...but the dorks are best for a 3cmc something on turn 2. If you pillar t1, you're losing tempo and the effect is about the same as if they ramped, just that they get another draw step. It's good in those situations where you have no 1-drop but the nuts t2, but it's pretty rare not to have a champion/experiment/elite/captive in your opening hand.
That's pretty good results but Junk Reanimator has become really popular in the last couple of weeks (the metagame changes so fast it's ridiculous) and I don't know if we should be trying to adapt the deck for that at all.
(I've heard that SCGs aren't the best events, but they're huge, and SCG Orlando was won by Reanimator which had 6 appearances in top 16, Naya blitz had none )
Yes Pillar is pretty rubbish T1 on the draw but it can be good T2 on the play, especially with BTE -> pillar + one-drop/rancor/etc. This is from my experience grinding the R/G deck online, but I know that plays a lot differently from Naya Blitz, so...
Pretty standard stuff, except I'm running 4 Rancors to get even more agressive/give me some G1 game against sweepers. I'm also running pillar over spear as removal, mainly because I think the cheaper cost might be relevant.
The board is where things get trickier. I'm not sure if I want Nearheath or Recknoer vs. aggro, and the RIP might not be worth it. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated, as I'm new to this archetype, (although I'm a very experienced aggro player).
Purify works well, I just don't like relying on grave hate of any kind if I can help it. Ground Seal is my general pick because it cantrips.
Placed 3rd at FNM last night (35 players). Lost in the semis against Esper Solar Flare. Game 1 I annihilated him. Game 2 I was on the play, kept a 1 land hand and stalled out 5 turns with 1 land so I scooped. Game 2 I had to mulligan to 4, he mulled to 5. I had the opposite problem, lost 3 early threats to removal and then proceeded to hit 6 lands in a row and die to Obzedat.
It was shuffled well before the match, but sometimes bad luck happens. Ah well.
Hmm, the most luck based deck in the format has a run of bad luck?
You don't say...
There is a reason why Naya Blitz has yet to make a strong showing in big time T8's since its early inception and initial success. I'm also confused why you were on the play in game 2 if you annihilated him game 1... I have yet to see a single half way decent player opt to draw in standard in like 10 years.
Nagao: Lady luck seems to like me in g3's of r4. C:
Pretty sure we don't need to adapt the deck too much...graveyard hate isn't the way to go as well, especially as junk also tends to go with a semi-transformational sideboard. Perhaps Mark of Mutiny out of the board like some people online have been playing is the answer.
True enough about pillar. It's not as good here, at least without rancor complementing it, as there are usually a total of 4 green 1-drops and there's an extra 4-of to cast off of emissary in mayor.
Jimmy: interesting choices. Rancor and pillar go well together, though I would definitely miss the extra damage from spear against augur, healer, reckoner (sometimes), fiend hunter, medic, nighthawk, garruk relentless, (kind of) thragtusk, and, most importantly, Olivia.
Well. I didn't realize it would be quite that many threats/walls.
Thanks for the response Ree. I played GB zombies pretty successfully last season, and in my experience, Rancor does a great job nixing a lot of the creatures spear kills. Testing might show that I need spear anyways, but I think I'm going to see how things work out. I also think the RIP should probably be a Gruul charm, and I might want to make room for a second one. What are your thoughts on nearheath vs. reckoner?
That deck also had creatures which could grow significantly larger to take advantage of trample. Not sure it's the best here.
RiP is probably one of the worst graveyard hate cards we can play. Tempo negative and the graveyard decks tend to transform anyways. Gruul charm probably is better than it (though I've never really liked it in this deck...personal preference).
I can say that Nearheath is VERY good in aggro matchups. It's better than reckoner if you're taking the aggro or racing route. Reckoner is best if you go to a more controlling deck post-board. They're both good but I can't say which is actually better as I haven't used reckoner. Prefer 2cmc over 3 and human subtype though.
I mean in GB, Lotleth Troll hardly ever got bigger than a 3/2 and Dreg Mangler wasn't scaveged often. Generally, Rancor just made something 4-5 power, which was often enough to get the job done. Maybe testing will prove otherwise, but Rancor seems able to serve a very similar function in blitz.
I think I'm with you on Nearheath over Reckoner though. Less mana + human + better in races seems pretty clutch.
Hmm, the most luck based deck in the format has a run of bad luck?
You don't say...
There is a reason why Naya Blitz has yet to make a strong showing in big time T8's since its early inception and initial success. I'm also confused why you were on the play in game 2 if you annihilated him game 1... I have yet to see a single half way decent player opt to draw in standard in like 10 years.
Typo. Game 3 was when I had to mull down to 4 cards. He took game 2.
Recently been testing naya blitz for the PTQ season, and have a few observations/questions.
What does everyone think of Wolfbitten Captive over Experiement one? I've been finding myself at least that he is much better. Experiment usually makes me slow play myself, trying to go up the chain so to speak to get him evolved, which leads to slowing the deck down. He's also rarely (if ever) bigger then 3/3, and usually just a 2/2 (which also means he doesnt regenerate). Wolfbitten to me is much better - he can swing into 2/2's and 3/3's threatening to pump, and even hiding ghor clans. And when he flips, he can be turned into a 6/6, which is quite relevant as it kills most of the bigger creatures played in standard right now. He's also both werewolf and human for mayor, so gets a pump regardless of what side.
As well, I've been trying boros reckoner main deck as well. It's great against the mirror match as well as any other aggro decks, and is great protection against a mid game bonfire - if you have them low enough, a bonfire will just kill them.
Anyone have any similar experience?
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most of the cards that people keeps pushing in this thread are just not "good enough" for this deck.
Boar is Better than any other 2 drop apart from BTE... 3/3 to grow experiment, playable with BTE, haste to trigger batallion, good post veredict, can block if you are in "defense mode".
all of the other creatures that people keeps asking for are just in one or more ways worse.
Chile!
I was having a damn hard time vs Junk Rites and RDW last night. We just can't race RDW when it's heavy on burn, and it feels odd to go on the defensive. Rites, on the other hand, just feels unfair. I've had some success with Ground Seal and Selesyna Charm, but that's about it.
I like Domri Rade as a way to restock after running low on gas, and additional removal.
I underestimated Frontline Medic's value and cut them to 2 to fit 2 Domri in; now I'm thinking I'll bump Frontlines to 4 where they belong, and maybe cut the Ghor-Clan Ravager for 1 Domri main, and stick a 2nd in the board.
Any others experimented with Domri in some proportion?
Chile!
I don't even understand why people even considered hamlet captain, mayor of avabruk is awesome because he has immediate impact on the board, and if it flips it can take over of a game by its own.
For RDW you should really read who is the beatdown if you haven't.
If they are burn heavy, you might also go the burn heavy way against them, remember that our sideboard is mostly removal against match ups like this one, so side in those pacifisms, fiend hunters, FotF and pilgrims, you can side out creatures which are more "aggroish" like elite and mauler
Against junk, well i already talked about how massive is purify the grave, you can take my word or you can ignore it, your choice.
Chile!
As for Junk Rites I'm still struggling with what to put in. Purify the Grave is obviously huge when they try to reanimate something but often postboard they can win just by Thrags and Restos. The main problem is that too many SB cards will dilute our strategy of hitting hard and fast. It's a tough cookie. I'm thinking maybe Beckon Apparition so that it also makes us a dude?
read my article!
check out this forum!
Placed 3rd at FNM last night (35 players). Lost in the semis against Esper Solar Flare. Game 1 I annihilated him. Game 2 I was on the play, kept a 1 land hand and stalled out 5 turns with 1 land so I scooped. Game 2 I had to mulligan to 4, he mulled to 5. I had the opposite problem, lost 3 early threats to removal and then proceeded to hit 6 lands in a row and die to Obzedat.
It was shuffled well before the match, but sometimes bad luck happens. Ah well.
read my article!
check out this forum!
I believe rancor was dropped from the early lists due to reckoner which completely blanks the card. Might be worth taking a look at again, but there's nothing I really want to cut.
Edit:
Concerning the reanimator matchup...
I've never had a problem against the deck out of around 15 DE's. We slide under them and Thalia's good in the matchup. I feel like gy hate is wasted sideboard space when their plan post-board is to go midrange and thragtusk you to death. All of the answers slow us down a bit...and going under their threats is the whole reason we have an advantage in the matchup.
I ran blitz for a few weeks because I love aggro. Ifound Boros Charm much more useful than Rancor or Giant Growth. I had three in my sb and was siding them in every game pretty much. Saving your guys against board sweepers or in combat is so good.....
@Ree: How have you done in 15 DEs?
Also how is the sideboard plan different vs Junk Reanimator and vs Humanimator?
I've been thinking of squeezing in another Ghor-Clan Rampager - so good against Resto Angels and fatties in general. Also maybe 2x Pillar of Flame against mana dorks and Gloom Surgeons which are becoming more popular. Getting rid of mana dorks can be really good against Junk Reanimator, and even better against greedy Midrange decks that run 24-25 lands and rely on their mana dorks to get to their 6 drops.
Probably the first to be cut is Flinthoof Boar as it's great but not a human so doesn't work with CotP/Mayor/Cavern of Souls. (There's even some discussion of swapping him for Hamlet Captain.) And maybe going down from 4 to 3 Frontline Medic, but he's so good.
read my article!
check out this forum!
I think I've cashed 9 or 10 of them, with 2 4-0's and one split to 2-1-1 as I ended up playing my friend sitting next to me (he also had class). Haven't played in about 2 weeks though.
My sb plans against both are to slide in a Thalia (to make 3, I run 2 main with 1 Nearheath). Sometimes I bring in pacifism/bonds of faith, but mostly only against junk. Humananimator is a very good matchup to begin with so there's not much we need to bring in/have specifically for them.
I can get behind having another rampager, but not so much pillar. Yes, the midrange decks want to ramp...but the dorks are best for a 3cmc something on turn 2. If you pillar t1, you're losing tempo and the effect is about the same as if they ramped, just that they get another draw step. It's good in those situations where you have no 1-drop but the nuts t2, but it's pretty rare not to have a champion/experiment/elite/captive in your opening hand.
(I've heard that SCGs aren't the best events, but they're huge, and SCG Orlando was won by Reanimator which had 6 appearances in top 16, Naya blitz had none )
Yes Pillar is pretty rubbish T1 on the draw but it can be good T2 on the play, especially with BTE -> pillar + one-drop/rancor/etc. This is from my experience grinding the R/G deck online, but I know that plays a lot differently from Naya Blitz, so...
read my article!
check out this forum!
Ballroom Blitz
Pretty standard stuff, except I'm running 4 Rancors to get even more agressive/give me some G1 game against sweepers. I'm also running pillar over spear as removal, mainly because I think the cheaper cost might be relevant.
The board is where things get trickier. I'm not sure if I want Nearheath or Recknoer vs. aggro, and the RIP might not be worth it. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated, as I'm new to this archetype, (although I'm a very experienced aggro player).
Hmm, the most luck based deck in the format has a run of bad luck?
You don't say...
There is a reason why Naya Blitz has yet to make a strong showing in big time T8's since its early inception and initial success. I'm also confused why you were on the play in game 2 if you annihilated him game 1... I have yet to see a single half way decent player opt to draw in standard in like 10 years.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
Pretty sure we don't need to adapt the deck too much...graveyard hate isn't the way to go as well, especially as junk also tends to go with a semi-transformational sideboard. Perhaps Mark of Mutiny out of the board like some people online have been playing is the answer.
True enough about pillar. It's not as good here, at least without rancor complementing it, as there are usually a total of 4 green 1-drops and there's an extra 4-of to cast off of emissary in mayor.
Jimmy: interesting choices. Rancor and pillar go well together, though I would definitely miss the extra damage from spear against augur, healer, reckoner (sometimes), fiend hunter, medic, nighthawk, garruk relentless, (kind of) thragtusk, and, most importantly, Olivia.
Well. I didn't realize it would be quite that many threats/walls.
RiP is probably one of the worst graveyard hate cards we can play. Tempo negative and the graveyard decks tend to transform anyways. Gruul charm probably is better than it (though I've never really liked it in this deck...personal preference).
I can say that Nearheath is VERY good in aggro matchups. It's better than reckoner if you're taking the aggro or racing route. Reckoner is best if you go to a more controlling deck post-board. They're both good but I can't say which is actually better as I haven't used reckoner. Prefer 2cmc over 3 and human subtype though.
I think I'm with you on Nearheath over Reckoner though. Less mana + human + better in races seems pretty clutch.
Typo. Game 3 was when I had to mull down to 4 cards. He took game 2.
It just won the SCG Orlando Day 2 Standard event.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
What does everyone think of Wolfbitten Captive over Experiement one? I've been finding myself at least that he is much better. Experiment usually makes me slow play myself, trying to go up the chain so to speak to get him evolved, which leads to slowing the deck down. He's also rarely (if ever) bigger then 3/3, and usually just a 2/2 (which also means he doesnt regenerate). Wolfbitten to me is much better - he can swing into 2/2's and 3/3's threatening to pump, and even hiding ghor clans. And when he flips, he can be turned into a 6/6, which is quite relevant as it kills most of the bigger creatures played in standard right now. He's also both werewolf and human for mayor, so gets a pump regardless of what side.
As well, I've been trying boros reckoner main deck as well. It's great against the mirror match as well as any other aggro decks, and is great protection against a mid game bonfire - if you have them low enough, a bonfire will just kill them.
Anyone have any similar experience?