LP, I'm checking your article out as well. Behind all of your swag is the brain of one of the most intelligent Magic players I've ever known. I guess that's one more thing for you to add to the wall of ego that is your Sally sig.
I can go with that. LK, you are the Mace Windu of red mages...cool, tempered logic in deliberation, but capable of just flat kicking tail when the situation warrants it.
You just basically echoed what he said. Esper isn't widely played at the moment, and other decks no longer rely heavily on Spinx's Revelation, which means there's not much reason to board SG. Sire of Insanity works more like Rakdos's Return with upside of migitating Revelations. But you can't really compare Sire and SG since Sire is a good maindeck card whereas SG is strictly a sideboard card.
SG is often a -1 for you, but that's not the reason it's no longer played. SG has seen play in the past, and it might become relevant in the future, but cards don't suddenly stop being good on their own. It just means there's a change in the metagame.
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I don't think I echoed him at all. I said that SG isn't played because the card disadvantage isn't worth it in this current meta. There aren't any cards being played that we can't deal with.
He said Sire of Insanity is used to hose Sphinxes and thus we don't need it.
SG is often a -1 for you, but that's not the reason it's no longer played. SG has seen play in the past, and it might become relevant in the future, but cards don't suddenly stop being good on their own.
No, that is the reason. I'm pretty sure it's the exact reasoning Reid Duke used too. It simply isn't needed. There are no cards that are worth the card disadvantage. Sure there are some great targets in Junk Rites, but we can't fall behind. We can beat them without SG.
"I only miss Slaughter Games when I play against a very traditional build of Esper Control, as it really doesn't have the same impact against other Sphinx's Revelation decks or even against Reanimator."
There is a quote I found from 4/25 from him here .
If it isn't favorable against other Sphinx decks, it seems that it doesn't have the same impact against them. It isn't worth the -1 card to take Sphinxes out of their potential draws.
Alright, so, going back to the DRS vs Ground Seal debate--I've been testing both for SCG Dallas in this weekend.
I find that Deathrite is just much better than Ground Seal at the moment.
Vs these insane Rites decks running triple Slime, he essentially nullifies the LD for a turn. Plus, in that matchup, he will work as just normal ramp a lot of the time due to Salvage filling their yard. As a bonus, it can turn Lingering Souls into a sorcery speed Midnight Haunting.
vs Blitz, he's a chump blocker or trades with a Lightning Mauler and makes all of your kill spells have the text "gain two life" on then. A chump+exile on a Ghor-Clan bloodrush essentially nullifies all +4 power.
DRS also has more use vs a lot of the rogue decks--turning off Zombie variants is a big one to me.
One of the coolest things is that since there is a portion of the time he can function as an elf, you can run the keyrunes and still occasionally have the arbor elf without giving up more slots.
The reason GS is good is because it cantrips. We can lose to Junk Rites even if they don't reanimate. Having that cantrip is a really important factor.
Also, lingering souls won't be cast until they have five mana if you have DRS on the board. At that point, you can't exile it assuming they never pass priority.
Either way, I've always liked DRS and am also considering playing it this weekend in Dallas.
The reason GS is good is because it cantrips. We can lose to Junk Rites even if they don't reanimate. Having that cantrip is a really important factor.
Also, lingering souls won't be cast until they have five mana if you have DRS on the board. At that point, you can't exile it assuming they never pass priority.
Either way, I've always liked DRS and am also considering playing it this weekend in Dallas.
The cantrip will be missed, but I believe the incremental damage/lifegain will be more useful over the course of a grindy game(and, vs Blitz, more useful than a card).
Is 2 duress sideboard enough to combat combo? I went up against American control running the curse of exhaustion into possibility storm combo and they counter/unsummon sire until they get it off.
vs Blitz, he's a chump blocker or trades with a Lightning Mauler and makes all of your kill spells have the text "gain two life" on then. A chump+exile on a Ghor-Clan bloodrush essentially nullifies all +4 power.
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This doesn't work. Once the cost of bloodrush is paid, the ability goes on the stack, and does not require Ghor-Clan to be in the yard.
This doesn't work. Once the cost of bloodrush is paid, the ability goes on the stack, and does not require Ghor-Clan to be in the yard.
he was saying that DRS basically blocks 2 damage and gains 2 life, essentially negating the rampager. Still doesn't seem like th e most effective use of the card to me.
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how is ground seal a useful card vs Blitz....bloodrush is an ability. Part of the RG cost, you discard it from your hand. whether or not it hits their graveyard is irrelevant.
he was saying that DRS basically blocks 2 damage and gains 2 life, essentially negating the rampager. Still doesn't seem like th e most effective use of the card to me.
Ah, thanks for the clarification.
DRS might be a little too dependent on other cards/situations to have an impact against aggro, where you tend to need immediate impact and/or resilience.
DRS might be a little too dependent on other cards/situations to have an impact against aggro, where you tend to need immediate impact and/or resilience.
I just played a game against a Jund aggro deck that mained DRS. And the interaction within the game kind of says exactly why the card isn't good main-deck material unless you are using it to hate graveyards specifically.
Here's what happened:
turn 1 he plays DRS, it stays in play for the rest of the game and actually gets like 4 activations off. I play Huntmaster into Thragtusk into Sire of Insanity, and I basically race him because he has 3 creatures too, but one of them is DRS and can't profitably block any of my guys.
It's worth mentioning that DRS allows you to make your opponent lose life, but that just means he's a 2/2 unblockable essentially.
So, I don't think he's worth it except for the part where he hates on graveyard strategies. Against any other deck (eh... maybe against aggro because of the life gain) he's not really worth it.
A 2/2 unblockable sounds good for one, he's a 2/2 unblockable as long as there are sorceries in the grave and you have mana to spare.
Well, it's not a 2/2 unblockable for 1 in the aggro sense. It's more like a 2/2 unblockable for 3 because that's when you can realistically expect cards to start hitting the graveyard. Like, if you could play it turn 1, and swing for 2 next turn and keep curving out like a normal aggro deck does. That's actually good against control if he stays on the field, but not so much against Midrange because they can just race you if you have a slow hand.
Someone should go over the DGM strategy as it sits right now. I'm not a premier member so I'm sure the article by Reid Duke goes over the DGM additions and subtractions but I'd really like to hear some sideboard, strategy and other combo's in the meta as it sits now. It seems that Naya has Jund "most concered" at the moment.
Also for the DRS vs Ground Seal debate, everytime I play it, DRS is constantly "pulling you back" if that makes sense. Jund needs to move foward, get ahead, draw cards, make your opponent get rid of cards etc... etc... DRS abilities take mana maintenance and it seems like he's always "holding you back" from getting ahead of your opponent and dropping your sire. If I was forced to think of a card to put in against beatdown decks I'd rather have an elf to speed things up and against graveyard decks I'd rather have Ground Seal out there. (my 2 cents)
"If fetch lands are reprinted I really believe they will be in allied colors (aka Onslaught fetches). If the fetch lands are reprinted you better believe that we'll all be fetching up basics. This would lead me to believe that the set after THS may have a reprint as the temples can't be fetched but it's pure speculation." - posted 03/22/2014 proved correct during Khans spoiler season.
"The set releases for fall 2015 (Blood, Sweat and Tears) and fall 2016 (Lock, Stock and Barrel). One or both of those 2 blocks (I'm betting) are going to contain either Fetch reprints or (more likely) Filter reprints. Filter lands still need a reprint. They are getting pretty high up there and it's been longer than ZEN so it makes a little more sense that Filter lands would see print earlier that fetches." - posted 03/22/2014 proved incorrect about filters coming earlier than fetches, still pending on filters in Origins block.
Well, it's not a 2/2 unblockable for 1 in the aggro sense. It's more like a 2/2 unblockable for 3 because that's when you can realistically expect cards to start hitting the graveyard. Like, if you could play it turn 1, and swing for 2 next turn and keep curving out like a normal aggro deck does. That's actually good against control if he stays on the field, but not so much against Midrange because they can just race you if you have a slow hand.
Well yeah, I mean, my point was that a 2/2 unblockable sounds good, Deathrite isn't actually that and shouldn't be thought of that way. (Ie its not good and I agree with you).
In an aggro heavy meta is keyrune still acceptable or is elf the better option? (keeping in mind the drawbacks of elf vs keyrune in other mu's)
I think you could flip a coin. I've seen people run just 1 Keyrune. I personally run 2 Elves. I figure it ups my chances of something like turn 3 Olivia/Huntmaster. But. Keyrune is better in the mirror (and against Reckoner).
Turn 3 Oliva is ok, but I usually slow roll her until I can get an activation out the turn I play her to avoid spear range. I also like Keyrune in a deck that plays Sire. It's infinitely less dead as a topdeck.
LP, I'm checking your article out as well. Behind all of your swag is the brain of one of the most intelligent Magic players I've ever known. I guess that's one more thing for you to add to the wall of ego that is your Sally sig.
I can go with that. LK, you are the Mace Windu of red mages...cool, tempered logic in deliberation, but capable of just flat kicking tail when the situation warrants it.
Turn 3 Oliva is ok, but I usually slow roll her until I can get an activation out the turn I play her to avoid spear range. I also like Keyrune in a deck that plays Sire. It's infinitely less dead as a topdeck.
It depends on the deck you are playing against. Obviously Junk the earlier Olivia hits the better. Against something like R/x midrange (Naya, Dega, America), you can afford to slow roll Olivia because there isn't a threat to your life total.
R/x aggro I think you can drop Olivia ASAP as long as there isn't a better play (Huntmaster, double removal). I think if your Olivia gets speared in that situation, you live with it. Because the alternative where they don't have the Spear, you start generating card advantage with her abilities. And because of Ghor-Clan Rampager, they have another avenue to kill an Olivia that blocks anyway. And you can't be so scared of losing her that you are taking all this extra damage to make sure they can't kill her, they can sometimes steal a game from you by just attacking through her.
Edit: I'm a Keyrune fan as well. But it's just less effective against aggro. Obviously strong against midrange and control because of how it dodges Wrath effects and sorcery speed removal (although people play Tragic Slip these days anyway).
I think you could flip a coin. I've seen people run just 1 Keyrune. I personally run 2 Elves. I figure it ups my chances of something like turn 3 Olivia/Huntmaster. But. Keyrune is better in the mirror (and against Reckoner).
I had the Keyrune out for a long time, but is back in for the Reckoner Control decks I am seeing a lot of.
I'm a huge fan of Keyrune in Jund. It gets around AoS in Junk, bant, and Naya. If we attack with it and pump it, it could even be enough to kill the blocking Angel. The card certainly has its uses.
Here is my current SB (MD list is the same as Reid's current list), primarily for a meta heavy on aggro/control. I dropped nighthawks because in the aggro matchups where I brought them in, they often got killed before they got to do anything. Let me know what you guys think:
I don't think I echoed him at all. I said that SG isn't played because the card disadvantage isn't worth it in this current meta. There aren't any cards being played that we can't deal with.
He said Sire of Insanity is used to hose Sphinxes and thus we don't need it.
No, that is the reason. I'm pretty sure it's the exact reasoning Reid Duke used too. It simply isn't needed. There are no cards that are worth the card disadvantage. Sure there are some great targets in Junk Rites, but we can't fall behind. We can beat them without SG.
3/1 - Reid Duke doesn't have it in his decklist.
"I only miss Slaughter Games when I play against a very traditional build of Esper Control, as it really doesn't have the same impact against other Sphinx's Revelation decks or even against Reanimator."
There is a quote I found from 4/25 from him here .
If it isn't favorable against other Sphinx decks, it seems that it doesn't have the same impact against them. It isn't worth the -1 card to take Sphinxes out of their potential draws.
I find that Deathrite is just much better than Ground Seal at the moment.
Vs these insane Rites decks running triple Slime, he essentially nullifies the LD for a turn. Plus, in that matchup, he will work as just normal ramp a lot of the time due to Salvage filling their yard. As a bonus, it can turn Lingering Souls into a sorcery speed Midnight Haunting.
vs Blitz, he's a chump blocker or trades with a Lightning Mauler and makes all of your kill spells have the text "gain two life" on then. A chump+exile on a Ghor-Clan bloodrush essentially nullifies all +4 power.
DRS also has more use vs a lot of the rogue decks--turning off Zombie variants is a big one to me.
One of the coolest things is that since there is a portion of the time he can function as an elf, you can run the keyrunes and still occasionally have the arbor elf without giving up more slots.
Either way, we're all gonna burn
Also, lingering souls won't be cast until they have five mana if you have DRS on the board. At that point, you can't exile it assuming they never pass priority.
Either way, I've always liked DRS and am also considering playing it this weekend in Dallas.
The cantrip will be missed, but I believe the incremental damage/lifegain will be more useful over the course of a grindy game(and, vs Blitz, more useful than a card).
Either way, we're all gonna burn
This doesn't work. Once the cost of bloodrush is paid, the ability goes on the stack, and does not require Ghor-Clan to be in the yard.
he was saying that DRS basically blocks 2 damage and gains 2 life, essentially negating the rampager. Still doesn't seem like th e most effective use of the card to me.
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Commander:
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how is ground seal a useful card vs Blitz....bloodrush is an ability. Part of the RG cost, you discard it from your hand. whether or not it hits their graveyard is irrelevant.
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Ah, thanks for the clarification.
DRS might be a little too dependent on other cards/situations to have an impact against aggro, where you tend to need immediate impact and/or resilience.
I just played a game against a Jund aggro deck that mained DRS. And the interaction within the game kind of says exactly why the card isn't good main-deck material unless you are using it to hate graveyards specifically.
Here's what happened:
turn 1 he plays DRS, it stays in play for the rest of the game and actually gets like 4 activations off. I play Huntmaster into Thragtusk into Sire of Insanity, and I basically race him because he has 3 creatures too, but one of them is DRS and can't profitably block any of my guys.
It's worth mentioning that DRS allows you to make your opponent lose life, but that just means he's a 2/2 unblockable essentially.
So, I don't think he's worth it except for the part where he hates on graveyard strategies. Against any other deck (eh... maybe against aggro because of the life gain) he's not really worth it.
Well, it's not a 2/2 unblockable for 1 in the aggro sense. It's more like a 2/2 unblockable for 3 because that's when you can realistically expect cards to start hitting the graveyard. Like, if you could play it turn 1, and swing for 2 next turn and keep curving out like a normal aggro deck does. That's actually good against control if he stays on the field, but not so much against Midrange because they can just race you if you have a slow hand.
Also for the DRS vs Ground Seal debate, everytime I play it, DRS is constantly "pulling you back" if that makes sense. Jund needs to move foward, get ahead, draw cards, make your opponent get rid of cards etc... etc... DRS abilities take mana maintenance and it seems like he's always "holding you back" from getting ahead of your opponent and dropping your sire. If I was forced to think of a card to put in against beatdown decks I'd rather have an elf to speed things up and against graveyard decks I'd rather have Ground Seal out there. (my 2 cents)
"The set releases for fall 2015 (Blood, Sweat and Tears) and fall 2016 (Lock, Stock and Barrel). One or both of those 2 blocks (I'm betting) are going to contain either Fetch reprints or (more likely) Filter reprints. Filter lands still need a reprint. They are getting pretty high up there and it's been longer than ZEN so it makes a little more sense that Filter lands would see print earlier that fetches." - posted 03/22/2014 proved incorrect about filters coming earlier than fetches, still pending on filters in Origins block.
Well yeah, I mean, my point was that a 2/2 unblockable sounds good, Deathrite isn't actually that and shouldn't be thought of that way. (Ie its not good and I agree with you).
I think you could flip a coin. I've seen people run just 1 Keyrune. I personally run 2 Elves. I figure it ups my chances of something like turn 3 Olivia/Huntmaster. But. Keyrune is better in the mirror (and against Reckoner).
It depends on the deck you are playing against. Obviously Junk the earlier Olivia hits the better. Against something like R/x midrange (Naya, Dega, America), you can afford to slow roll Olivia because there isn't a threat to your life total.
R/x aggro I think you can drop Olivia ASAP as long as there isn't a better play (Huntmaster, double removal). I think if your Olivia gets speared in that situation, you live with it. Because the alternative where they don't have the Spear, you start generating card advantage with her abilities. And because of Ghor-Clan Rampager, they have another avenue to kill an Olivia that blocks anyway. And you can't be so scared of losing her that you are taking all this extra damage to make sure they can't kill her, they can sometimes steal a game from you by just attacking through her.
Edit: I'm a Keyrune fan as well. But it's just less effective against aggro. Obviously strong against midrange and control because of how it dodges Wrath effects and sorcery speed removal (although people play Tragic Slip these days anyway).
I had the Keyrune out for a long time, but is back in for the Reckoner Control decks I am seeing a lot of.