I've really enjoyed playing this hybrid with Zegana and a heavier creature count. It's easily the most fun I've had since Mythic Conscription. You interact with creature decks so much more consistently than Esper. You have better engines than most of the midrange decks. UWR is really a toss-up on your familiarity with the match, but the better threat density has been great. Esper is still rough, but definitely better than before.
What are you guys' thoughts on Urban Evolution? Sure it seems like a worst zegana put it's not as dependent on our field presence and it allows us to ramp for bigger wolf runs/ sphinxes.
I love the card, but it's inability to affect the board state at the midgame is really too slow right now. It only draws one more card than a Think Twice after all.
I bring Faithmenders in against anything super aggressive (R/x and/or Zombies), boarding out counterspells and maybe one copy of something from the top end of the mana curve (e.g., Sphinx's, Thragtusk).
I'm still not enthralled about Urban Evolution (I keep reading this as "Unban" Evolution). For one mana more, you can also gain life, and do it at instant speed (though you don't get the ramp). Or with a little setup you could get a creature that you can Resto to get more cards.
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Level 2 Judge
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
As someone who definitely needs help on sideboarding, this article by Raphael Levy (who helped make Wolf Run Bant) explains the deck (at PT GTC, this is their original version) and it's sideboarding plans. This article helped me win the Game Day
Also: I have one spot free in my SB right now. I'm thinking to put an Alchimist's Refuge. The alternative is Angel of Serenity. Any thoughts?
Serenity for sure. Being able to flash non land cards is great and all, but often time when I lose with this deck it's not because I couldn't flash a supreme verdict or a thragtusk but because I've run out of gas. AOS fixes that and is a nice threat on the board.
If anyone's interested I have my games saved in .CODs against a variety of opponents. Jund is an interesting one, they had double Tusk, Lili, Rakdos Return, MD Underworld Connections, and a good amount of removal and it was still a blowout.
You just need to have Cockatrice. I take a lot of joy in smashing Jund, especially since the way this deck has changed they're starting to occupy similar spaces in the meta.
The flex slot has been a 2nd D Sphere, another counter, another Selesnya Charm, and another Witchbane Orb so far but I am not sure if any of those are correct of if to should be something else. I have considered trying an Assemble the Legion, but it would probably require another red source in the main deck.
Overall though, it has preformed amazingly. Esper can be rough, but is not unwinnable. You have trumps for the other midrange decks so Jund and Naya are favorable. The slower aggro decks are also favorable because you have so much interaction with them. The Naya Blitz and other "Kuldotha Red" hyper aggressive decks can beat you with their god hands, but they beat pretty much every deck with their god hands and they are inconsistent so I think being a little soft there isn't bad. Reanimator is favorable because you have the best hoser for them in Rest in Peace and you are able to provide pressure and have resilient threats. You are basically their nightmare matchup.
I have found that I don't actually activate Kessig Wolf Run as much as you would think. Most of the time you play it, they make weird blocks to play around it, and then you just slam some fatty/draw spell and make them look foolish. It's still one of the best cards in the deck though.
I think everybody should test this version before dismissing it. Plus its a blast to play and you thought Resto-ing a Thragtusk was good? Just wait till you flicker a Zegana...
I like the idea of Prime Speaker.. My only issue with her is that she can't be played on her own.
[snip]
Again I really like the idea of Prime Speaker and Loxodon Smiter for those annoying Liliana decks, but I just don't know how I'd deal without Augur of Bolas against the superfast aggro decks. He's just SO good.
I totally agree with you on Zegana. I like her in theory, but in reality? Not so much. Playing her means you probably go with Smiters instead of Centaurs and I really like the life gain we get from the latter against the aggro decks.
I do not agree with you on the Augurs though. I cut them all from my deck. In about 15 games I whiffed MOST of the time with them, putting lands and Thragtusk on the bottom of my library (which just annoyed me so freaking much) and they tended to die the turn after they landed when they got tossed in front of a Reckoner or burned away so the stupid RG volver dorks can get through. Instead I went with more sweepers and Centaurs. Three Verdicts, two Terminus and three Centaurs in the main.
I also really like the high end finishers. I run one AoS and one Gisela. If I was playing in a more serious environment I would probably drop Gisela to the board and play another AoS. I have finished a number of games by dropping AoS to remove all an opponent's blockers and swinging with a bunch of Thrags and Restos for the win.
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Some people like to win MtG matches in the Red Zone. I prefer to win the way God intended: on the stack.
The spell count really isn't that high for Augur, and three life is overrated compared to the body Smiter provides and the ability to blank early Lilianas.
I really like loxodon smiter. He gives the deck so much game against everything, whereas centaur healer seems to die and be a 'Gain 3 life' for 3 mana card. Three toughness is a tough place to be right now, especially with reckoner in every other deck. At least smiter offers a trade to reckoner, whereas centaur gets stone walled.
What does everyone think of assemble the legion in this deck as a one of in the board for the control matchup? We are going to be the aggressor's in both games, so why not kick it up a notch? If it resolves it's just an auto win.
As I mentioned above its def a possibility but you will most likely have to play an additional red producing land.
I like Augur of Bolas but the spell count for our deck tends to run on the edge of being just enough to warrant him or not even close to enough. I would never want to play Maritime Guard, and Augur feels like that alot.
As I mentioned above its def a possibility but you will most likely have to play an additional red producing land.
I like Augur of Bolas but the spell count for our deck tends to run on the edge of being just enough to warrant him or not even close to enough. I would never want to play Maritime Guard, and Augur feels like that alot.
You have it exactly right about Augur. I find the spell count is just not quite there. I cut the two dissipates in faviour of slightly higher threat density and I think that may have shifted the bar enough to make them miss too often.
As for Smiter...I'll try him out in place of Centaurs. If you are running Zegana then he is clearly superior, but I am not doing that yet. Although I am not sure the logic about Liliana holds. Unless you are running Augur too, then he is going to be our lead dork and will die to Liliana's sacrifice ability. Still I have yet to test that, so I'll remain open to the idea.
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Some people like to win MtG matches in the Red Zone. I prefer to win the way God intended: on the stack.
Centaur Healer's synergy with Restoration Angel to get more value and synergy postboard with Rhox Faithmender has alot of cohesiveness to beating aggro. Plus, every creature has to do something in this deck. The reason is because your going to sweep and lose value from your blockers or Thragtusks, so the fact that theyall Etb is a good thing. Loxodon Smiter doesnt do any of these things.
Liliana is far scarier than things Healer deals with. Smiter requires either a 2 for 1 or a Mortar that they'd much rather use on a Resto/Zegana. Smiter also comes down and hits against Flash no matter what. If you're running Garruk and Zegana Smiter is also much more reliable.
Yeah, I think Healer vs. Smiter might come down to a metagame call. Healer might be better vs. Aggro, and Smiter is definitely better vs. Liliana.
Either way, I'm off this deck for now. I finished a very disappointing 1-2-1 last night, losing to Aggro (again), American Tempo, and drawing against a Junk midrange/reanimator deck. I need to play something that's going to be able to survive past turn 4-5 against Aggro. If I'm gonna lose, I'm gonna lose while actually playing Magic, not getting run over by doubple-striking 2/2s.
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Level 2 Judge
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
I agree, this deck is starting to disappoint me alot. It just can't stand up to alot of aggro builds right now with how fast they are. I'm just going to tweak it into american charms control.
I agree, this deck is starting to disappoint me alot. It just can't stand up to alot of aggro builds right now with how fast they are. I'm just going to tweak it into american charms control.
I'm not sure how you guys are losing to Aggro strategies with this deck. Sure anyone can get the nut draw, but with the tools we have available to us I don't think you should have any problems with aggro. At least I haven't. Maybe you aren't mulliganing very well. When I consider the tools I have against Aggro in the main I see:
3 Verdict
2 Terminus
4 Charm
2 D. Sphere
3 Centaur (which at least chumps and usually kills those 2/2 dorks, while simultaneouly ameliorating the guy that gets through.)
4 Resto (flash in; Surprise! I have a blocker)
4 Thrags -- which you can hopefully land on T4.
That's 22 cards that should get you to 6 or 7 mana so your Revelations can take over the game. The thing about Aggro is that an average/good draw for them will always punish a sketch hand for the midrange/control deck. But they almost inevitably have to overextend to make that happen, which means one Verdict/Terminus swings the game completely.
Post-board I bring in 1 x Garruk Relentless, 2 x Cyclonic Rift and a 4th Verdict. I am also still thinking about Faithmenders, though my meta has a single Battle of Wits deck in the hands of a competent pilot so I have a couple of slots dedicated to dealing with him.
Ultimately it's down to you though. You HAVE to make good decisions. Keep a sketch hand and it doesn't matter what's in your deck.
/M
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Some people like to win MtG matches in the Red Zone. I prefer to win the way God intended: on the stack.
I agree, aggro's best hands are strong, but in the 75 you should have more than enough tools to sweep, stall, and 1-1 them until the higher quality just lets you win.
4 Azorius Charm
4 Augur of Bolas
2 Centaur Healer
1 Detention Sphere
1 Oblivion Ring
Yeah, the deck does great, if:
* I hit one or two of these
* Hit Verdict on T3-4
* Hit all my land drops
* Follow-up with a Resto and/or Thrag
* Follow-up with a Revelation.
and/or
* They get a rare bad draw.
It's a pretty big if. Sure, I can mulligan, but mulliganing with control decks is always miserable. I'll mulligan a hand with 2 lands and all 4+ drops into a hand with 2 lands and Azorius Charm and 3 Revelations and not hit a third and/or fourth land.
That's why I'm looking toward Esper. They have a LOT more early-game disruption than we do. And it actually kills stuff instead of slightly messing up their curve and/or speedbumping them.
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Level 2 Judge
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
I'm still not enthralled about Urban Evolution (I keep reading this as "Unban" Evolution). For one mana more, you can also gain life, and do it at instant speed (though you don't get the ramp). Or with a little setup you could get a creature that you can Resto to get more cards.
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=11021
Standard
GBWJunk ReanimatorWBG
EDH
BShirei, Shizo's CaretakerB
RGBorborygmos EnragedGR
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
Serenity for sure. Being able to flash non land cards is great and all, but often time when I lose with this deck it's not because I couldn't flash a supreme verdict or a thragtusk but because I've run out of gas. AOS fixes that and is a nice threat on the board.
4x Loxodon Smiter
4x Thragtusk
3x Restoration Angel
2x Angel of Serenity
2x Prime Speaker Zegana
Spells(19)
4x Azorius Charm
4x Farseek
3x Sphinx's Revelation
3x Supreme Verdict
2x Garruk, Primal Hunter
1x Detention Sphere
1x Selesnya Charm
1x Think Twice
4x Breeding Pool
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Hinterland Harbor
4x Sunpetal Grove
4x Temple Garden
2x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Alchemist's Refuge
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Steam Vents
3x Rest in Peace
2x Dispel
2x Jace, Memory Adept
2x Negate
2x Rhox Faithmender
1x Centaur Healer
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Witchbane Orb
1x Flex Slot
The flex slot has been a 2nd D Sphere, another counter, another Selesnya Charm, and another Witchbane Orb so far but I am not sure if any of those are correct of if to should be something else. I have considered trying an Assemble the Legion, but it would probably require another red source in the main deck.
Overall though, it has preformed amazingly. Esper can be rough, but is not unwinnable. You have trumps for the other midrange decks so Jund and Naya are favorable. The slower aggro decks are also favorable because you have so much interaction with them. The Naya Blitz and other "Kuldotha Red" hyper aggressive decks can beat you with their god hands, but they beat pretty much every deck with their god hands and they are inconsistent so I think being a little soft there isn't bad. Reanimator is favorable because you have the best hoser for them in Rest in Peace and you are able to provide pressure and have resilient threats. You are basically their nightmare matchup.
I have found that I don't actually activate Kessig Wolf Run as much as you would think. Most of the time you play it, they make weird blocks to play around it, and then you just slam some fatty/draw spell and make them look foolish. It's still one of the best cards in the deck though.
I think everybody should test this version before dismissing it. Plus its a blast to play and you thought Resto-ing a Thragtusk was good? Just wait till you flicker a Zegana...
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
I totally agree with you on Zegana. I like her in theory, but in reality? Not so much. Playing her means you probably go with Smiters instead of Centaurs and I really like the life gain we get from the latter against the aggro decks.
I do not agree with you on the Augurs though. I cut them all from my deck. In about 15 games I whiffed MOST of the time with them, putting lands and Thragtusk on the bottom of my library (which just annoyed me so freaking much) and they tended to die the turn after they landed when they got tossed in front of a Reckoner or burned away so the stupid RG volver dorks can get through. Instead I went with more sweepers and Centaurs. Three Verdicts, two Terminus and three Centaurs in the main.
I also really like the high end finishers. I run one AoS and one Gisela. If I was playing in a more serious environment I would probably drop Gisela to the board and play another AoS. I have finished a number of games by dropping AoS to remove all an opponent's blockers and swinging with a bunch of Thrags and Restos for the win.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7790606#post7790606
GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG
BGWKarador, Ghost ChieftainWGB
URJhoira of the GhituRU
UWGeist of Saint TraftWU
BUOona, Queen of the FaeUB
I like Augur of Bolas but the spell count for our deck tends to run on the edge of being just enough to warrant him or not even close to enough. I would never want to play Maritime Guard, and Augur feels like that alot.
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
You have it exactly right about Augur. I find the spell count is just not quite there. I cut the two dissipates in faviour of slightly higher threat density and I think that may have shifted the bar enough to make them miss too often.
As for Smiter...I'll try him out in place of Centaurs. If you are running Zegana then he is clearly superior, but I am not doing that yet. Although I am not sure the logic about Liliana holds. Unless you are running Augur too, then he is going to be our lead dork and will die to Liliana's sacrifice ability. Still I have yet to test that, so I'll remain open to the idea.
Either way, I'm off this deck for now. I finished a very disappointing 1-2-1 last night, losing to Aggro (again), American Tempo, and drawing against a Junk midrange/reanimator deck. I need to play something that's going to be able to survive past turn 4-5 against Aggro. If I'm gonna lose, I'm gonna lose while actually playing Magic, not getting run over by doubple-striking 2/2s.
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG
BGWKarador, Ghost ChieftainWGB
URJhoira of the GhituRU
UWGeist of Saint TraftWU
BUOona, Queen of the FaeUB
I'm not sure how you guys are losing to Aggro strategies with this deck. Sure anyone can get the nut draw, but with the tools we have available to us I don't think you should have any problems with aggro. At least I haven't. Maybe you aren't mulliganing very well. When I consider the tools I have against Aggro in the main I see:
3 Verdict
2 Terminus
4 Charm
2 D. Sphere
3 Centaur (which at least chumps and usually kills those 2/2 dorks, while simultaneouly ameliorating the guy that gets through.)
4 Resto (flash in; Surprise! I have a blocker)
4 Thrags -- which you can hopefully land on T4.
That's 22 cards that should get you to 6 or 7 mana so your Revelations can take over the game. The thing about Aggro is that an average/good draw for them will always punish a sketch hand for the midrange/control deck. But they almost inevitably have to overextend to make that happen, which means one Verdict/Terminus swings the game completely.
Post-board I bring in 1 x Garruk Relentless, 2 x Cyclonic Rift and a 4th Verdict. I am also still thinking about Faithmenders, though my meta has a single Battle of Wits deck in the hands of a competent pilot so I have a couple of slots dedicated to dealing with him.
Ultimately it's down to you though. You HAVE to make good decisions. Keep a sketch hand and it doesn't matter what's in your deck.
/M
4 Azorius Charm
4 Augur of Bolas
2 Centaur Healer
1 Detention Sphere
1 Oblivion Ring
Yeah, the deck does great, if:
* I hit one or two of these
* Hit Verdict on T3-4
* Hit all my land drops
* Follow-up with a Resto and/or Thrag
* Follow-up with a Revelation.
and/or
* They get a rare bad draw.
It's a pretty big if. Sure, I can mulligan, but mulliganing with control decks is always miserable. I'll mulligan a hand with 2 lands and all 4+ drops into a hand with 2 lands and Azorius Charm and 3 Revelations and not hit a third and/or fourth land.
That's why I'm looking toward Esper. They have a LOT more early-game disruption than we do. And it actually kills stuff instead of slightly messing up their curve and/or speedbumping them.
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!