Hi folk. I too am aspiring to make an aggressive Simic deck that heavily uses evolve. Here is the list I have been playing around with.
I prefer the Wolfir Avenger over the Drakewing Krasis. His regeneration and flash are better than Flying and Trample. You can reliably get trample with rancor, wich you should run more. This is great with the Raptors.
I was thinking about Vorapede instead of Thragtusk(while the life gain is welcome i use him more for the resilience), but Vorapede 5 power leave him on Selesnya Charm range, and with all the bants around runing it and Azorious Charm he will end exiled/bounced without doing nothing. The triple G also don't makes me very happy.
I also think that rapid hybridzation shouldn't be used as 4 of. Against a fast aggro like boros or rakdos you will just give a guy that is bigger than the average creatures they run.
Rapid hybridization is fantastic, I think rancor and hybrid make young wolf playable. I think of it less as removal and more as a conditional flash creature in this deck. It's such a great response to targeted removal. It also works well with experiment one, because you can trade one +1/+1 counter for a 3/3 if you already evolved twice.
The fact that you can use it to weaken your opponents best creatures is just added value.
Edit: just noting that I was wrong about the exp. one/ rapid hybrid synergy, there is a no regen clause.
What do you think of spell rupture in this deck? If any deck can make that card on par with mana leak, it's this one.
PablitO has my favorite list so far, though I think his mana count is a bit high. This deck is super cheap. I agree that a splash of black could be good for the deck. But I think between exp. 1, undying and wolfir avenger,we can shrug off supreme verdicts. If we go black i really like dreg mangler, even his gy ability has good synergy with the deck, and gives it a little better late game. maybe dimir charm in sb as well? To counter the exile sorcery and pillar.
I think the pure UG is best, I'm just really torn if I want to poke into midrange with this deck, or go pure aggro. I like wolfir silverheart as a 5 drop, if we go there, as he has some immediate impact.
I actually thought about spell rupture, it will probably always be a rune snag, sometimes a mana leak and pseudocounterspell if there is a biomancer (to just lock it up), or after a simic charm, etc. It´s a really bad topdeck, but i guess it´s the risk we´re taking if we want to run it. Overall i think it´s a solid card, we want to take the advantage of playing simic G for the huge beats B for permission and tricks.
Testing!
I was wrong about Hands of Binding, it might be close to our only out against a thragtusk if you´ve got a raptor in play. It lets you hit in with everything and tap another dude so that next turn you can smash in again. I really like it. Not going to replace it or push it up to 3 copies though.
I played against a control deck, which are fairly easy to beat actually. Usually if you´ve got the guildmage with a strangleroot geist and 4 mana open you´re in good shape, since you can guildmage the geist in response to a verdict, counter anything else, give hexproof with the charm or just make them waste resorces.
Simic charm is awesome, i´m still not sure about 4 maindeck, but it it great. I usually use it for the +3/+3 or the unsummon because aggro is everywhere.
I also played against tokens and misplayed horribly as i didn´t see he had a vault back there and lost my board. I was at 1 life and fighting back but he put 1 more than i had and i didn´t draw a thing. Of course, golgari charm was actually a card against it.
Young wolf is actually really nice. I´d love to bring him up to 4 so that other agro decks wont stand a chance. Generally speaking if you have biomancer out, you´re close to winning. My opponent had a hellrider and 3 dudes out and i had a 4/4 biomancer (with rancor) and a 5/8 biomancer with a young wolf in hand. He conceded when i dropped the 10/10 wolf
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You have to know your role in the match up. You are the control deck against decks that have reach. If they stumble then you switch. If they are pumping then you block and contril. Until you outclass them. That's the way of the simic against aggro. Only after you outclass them and have made a cushion, probably with the gm or garruk, then you take the game over in an aggro fashion.
Against control you are the aggro but save your tricks to make them fail. Then capotalize on it.
What do you think is better for mana accelleration: Gyre Sage or Arbor Elf?
Abor Elf. Gyre Sage isn't an efficient mana accelleration. She is more a "evolver with utility".
What do you think should be included in the two cmc slot?
I think Strangleroot Geist is almost an auto include.
I don't like Snapcaster neither Invisible stalker on this build. For snapcaster you need a lot of spells to make him worth. And for invisible staker, the is basically a 1/1 until you rancor him. He don't interact with evolve neither you have many ways of interacting with him.
Between Zameck Guildmage, Gyre Sage and Shambleshark, i prefer the Guildmage. His utility is useful with geist and is a great mana skin. Shambleshark is just a evolver with a small evolve trick. And Gyre sage like i said is a evolver with utiltity. But i still prefer the guildmage utility.
And how about in the 3 cmc slot?
My vote is for Wolfir. First his regeneration is very helpful. Also his flash is a better evolve trick than shamble shark (since he is 3/3 and not 2/1), also since i run geist, the manabase is more toward green, so he fits it better.
Drakewing Krasis 1 thoughness is tough... a 3 mana that can trade with a single lingering souls token?
Elusive Krasis 0 power is something i don't like for a 3 drop, you need to invest something to make him worth, wich generally leads you to overextend.
Latch Seeker is a good option if your manabase can fit him, wich probably won't be the case if you're running stangleroot geist and want to cast him reliabily at turn 2. You will have a hard time cuving from geist at T2 and seeker at T3
What do you guys think of pit fight in the 75?
Considering how conditional it is, i would give preference to Rapid Hybridzation over Pit Fight. There's two times when you want to use a removal:
1 - When opponent creature is bigger than yours.
2 - When opponent creature have a strong utility.
You can't use Pit fight for the case 1. Also Hybridzation can be used on Evolve tricks and the no regeneration clause migh be relevant.
Discuss and voice your opinion and why you think so.
Exactly what vitcor said i think.
Wolfir avenger´s regeneration is HUUUUGE. Control will not like this dude on eot turn 3, since if you play it correctly, the supreme verdict won´t do anything to it. Plus it´s an INCREDIBLE weapon against mono red, which in my testing kind of favours us (biomancer is just game) but is sometimes just determined by a coin flip, no joking.
The other 3 drops are meh.
For the 2 drops i kind of like the 2/1 with evolve and flash. He doesn´t seem to be that bad. Geist and guildmage should be solid 4 of each though. Snapcaster COULD be good to replay simic charm only, but otherwise not that awesome. If i had to stick some in, i´d play 2, no more.
And even though i´ve been getting control to ragequit left and right, i´m still not sold on the numbers. I have been having some issues mainly with the guildgates and i don´t know if removing a hybridization and the dissipates for additional young wolves, raptors and avengers is the best. There are 0 counters main this way.
The sideboard needs help though. Against control i side out the hands of binding and the hybridizations (unless Obzedat, ghost council) is involved. So i´d bring in 4 cards, usually 2 or 3 Golgari charm and 1 or 2 appetites. So, what the hell are the negates for? Maybe i can turn them into Essence scatters against aggro... but still not sure (maybe unsummons)
Any ideas?
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Maybe i can turn them into Essence scatters against aggro... but still not sure (maybe unsummons)
Any ideas?
I think hands is very efficent agains aggros, you can hold them back for 1-3 turns with hands easily. I love when my opponent tap out on T2 then i tap both his creatures with a single Hands. this basically make them lose their T3 attack wich is very bad for aggros.
Last deck looks pretty decent. I don't like a few things though. You have young wolf as a 4 of. I see the evolve thing you are going for, but feel like it just doesn't do enough in any matchup. Aggro it's too small. Control it doesn't put enough pressure down. Combo it is too slow. I'd take that out for something. Probably evasive krasis. That is atleast good against aggro. It's a wall that will eventually kill them.
Other than that it seems weird to dilute the colors to add in black.
I would like to see garruk in here in some way. Primal makes big dudes, especially with guildmage. And draws cards. While smaller garruk is amazing at making it more like a combo deck. You sac geist to bring in guildmages. Then draw cards to reset undying. While also tutoring for the creatures you need to take over the game. Probably going with primal since it's bigger and more raw. You don't always have the time to play around.
I guess all this is to say drop young wolf down to a 1 or 2 and put in primal hunter.
Part of the reason that I wanted to run pit fight was because I wanted a way to kill smaller utility creatures. I like the idea of garruk relentlessfilling that role, and being able to make late game cloudfin raptor better.
The only reason I would run 4 young wolf is if I was running 4 rapid hybridization. young wolf has a lot of synergy with this deck, but he is kinda a bad card, I only run him because he enables more frog lizards for me.
Looks a tad off. Personal thing is I don't like GM in anything less than a 4 of. It really is the heart of the deck. Next is no pongify? It is needed. You just have to be able to answer the big bombs. No other thing about it.
Tusk sb at the very least. It's a house in here. I had one game where I pongified my tusk eot after activating gm 3 times. Gg.
Oozeify is a pretty good mini combo also. Basically reads U: put a 3/3 token into play. Brokeny goodness.
Last deck looks pretty decent. I don't like a few things though. You have young wolf as a 4 of. I see the evolve thing you are going for, but feel like it just doesn't do enough in any matchup. Aggro it's too small. Control it doesn't put enough pressure down. Combo it is too slow. I'd take that out for something. Probably evasive krasis. That is atleast good against aggro. It's a wall that will eventually kill them.
Other than that it seems weird to dilute the colors to add in black.
I would like to see garruk in here in some way. Primal makes big dudes, especially with guildmage. And draws cards. While smaller garruk is amazing at making it more like a combo deck. You sac geist to bring in guildmages. Then draw cards to reset undying. While also tutoring for the creatures you need to take over the game. Probably going with primal since it's bigger and more raw. You don't always have the time to play around.
I guess all this is to say drop young wolf down to a 1 or 2 and put in primal hunter.
I think the wolf is ok. I might be wrong. But it would be either oung wolf or raptor leaving. I want to be able to beat mono red even if i´m on the play. Young wolf blocks and trades later on (hopefully). Plus, young wolf with rancor is already a threat, beating for 3 on turn 2 and potentially 4. 7
Against control, if you are on the play, you can go: t1 wolf t2 guildmage and t3 maybe geist, they on turn 4 play land and smash and pass. Now if they verdict does nothing. you activate guildmage twice and you´ve got 9 power right there. I dont know, i really like the wolf :/ i´ll have to see.
I don´t like the krasis. It evolves everything (we´re talking experiment one and raptor, only those dudes), but it doesn´t hit. I´d rather play dreg mangler for sure. Garruk might be ok, i´d play the little one though. If you curve out nicely, then a garruk relentless is really hard to hill. Then i guess you can sac a geist to tutor for another one and smash. Could be nice.
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I'm guessing you were not impressed with the raptor? A 2/3 flying for 1 looks to be abover the curve. Not running those and playing tracker takes away from the zoo fewl and puts it to almost midrange. Feeling I mean. You need mana for both tracker and dudes/spells. Not saying you choice is wrong. More like maybe a seporate thread?
So for me the main synergy is Strangleroot Geist/Young Wolf + Rancor/Rapid Hybridizationwith Zameck Guildmage for gas and card draw. Its a really aggressive combo when you go off, so I decided to try and make an fast build. Also, the Guildmage + undying dudes is a great defensive strategy as well. Against mono red, for example, this deck can play the control role with some help from a semi-transitional sideboard.
Cloudfin Raptor and Faerie Imposter both are good in my experience when trying to be aggro, sometimes even resetting a Geist with the Imposter. These would both come out when transforming to midrange.
Wolfir Avenger and Dissipate are both the curve-toppers at 3 mana. Just good resilient cards.
Oh %$#@. It's not Cancel, It's Negate. My bad.
I prefer the Wolfir Avenger over the Drakewing Krasis. His regeneration and flash are better than Flying and Trample. You can reliably get trample with rancor, wich you should run more. This is great with the Raptors.
I was thinking about Vorapede instead of Thragtusk(while the life gain is welcome i use him more for the resilience), but Vorapede 5 power leave him on Selesnya Charm range, and with all the bants around runing it and Azorious Charm he will end exiled/bounced without doing nothing. The triple G also don't makes me very happy.
I also think that rapid hybridzation shouldn't be used as 4 of. Against a fast aggro like boros or rakdos you will just give a guy that is bigger than the average creatures they run.
The fact that you can use it to weaken your opponents best creatures is just added value.
Edit: just noting that I was wrong about the exp. one/ rapid hybrid synergy, there is a no regen clause.
PablitO has my favorite list so far, though I think his mana count is a bit high. This deck is super cheap. I agree that a splash of black could be good for the deck. But I think between exp. 1, undying and wolfir avenger,we can shrug off supreme verdicts. If we go black i really like dreg mangler, even his gy ability has good synergy with the deck, and gives it a little better late game. maybe dimir charm in sb as well? To counter the exile sorcery and pillar.
I think the pure UG is best, I'm just really torn if I want to poke into midrange with this deck, or go pure aggro. I like wolfir silverheart as a 5 drop, if we go there, as he has some immediate impact.
Testing!
I played against a control deck, which are fairly easy to beat actually. Usually if you´ve got the guildmage with a strangleroot geist and 4 mana open you´re in good shape, since you can guildmage the geist in response to a verdict, counter anything else, give hexproof with the charm or just make them waste resorces.
Simic charm is awesome, i´m still not sure about 4 maindeck, but it it great. I usually use it for the +3/+3 or the unsummon because aggro is everywhere.
I also played against tokens and misplayed horribly as i didn´t see he had a vault back there and lost my board. I was at 1 life and fighting back but he put 1 more than i had and i didn´t draw a thing. Of course, golgari charm was actually a card against it.
Young wolf is actually really nice. I´d love to bring him up to 4 so that other agro decks wont stand a chance. Generally speaking if you have biomancer out, you´re close to winning. My opponent had a hellrider and 3 dudes out and i had a 4/4 biomancer (with rancor) and a 5/8 biomancer with a young wolf in hand. He conceded when i dropped the 10/10 wolf
A huge thanks to Argetlam and the guys at Hakai studios for this awesome banner
Also, when you fight another aggro deck, does this deck go for the more controlling position or the beater?
Against control you are the aggro but save your tricks to make them fail. Then capotalize on it.
What do you think should be included in the two cmc slot?
I'm thinking our options are:
Strangleroot Geist
Zameck Guildmage
Invisible Stalker
Shambleshark
Gyre Sage
Snapcaster Mage
And how about in the 3 cmc slot?
Again I think our best options are
Wolfir Avenger
Drakewing Krasis
Elusive Krasis
Latch Seeker
Discuss and voice your opinion and why you think so.
GUW Bant Enchant
RG Aggro
GRBUW Maze's End
Modern
WBG Melira Pod
RBUG Infect
RG Tron
UWR Affinity
RGW Enchantment Tokens
Legacy
RRR Burn
Commander
WBR Kalia
I think Strangleroot Geist is almost an auto include.
I don't like Snapcaster neither Invisible stalker on this build. For snapcaster you need a lot of spells to make him worth. And for invisible staker, the is basically a 1/1 until you rancor him. He don't interact with evolve neither you have many ways of interacting with him.
Between Zameck Guildmage, Gyre Sage and Shambleshark, i prefer the Guildmage. His utility is useful with geist and is a great mana skin. Shambleshark is just a evolver with a small evolve trick. And Gyre sage like i said is a evolver with utiltity. But i still prefer the guildmage utility.
My vote is for Wolfir. First his regeneration is very helpful. Also his flash is a better evolve trick than shamble shark (since he is 3/3 and not 2/1), also since i run geist, the manabase is more toward green, so he fits it better.
Drakewing Krasis 1 thoughness is tough... a 3 mana that can trade with a single lingering souls token?
Elusive Krasis 0 power is something i don't like for a 3 drop, you need to invest something to make him worth, wich generally leads you to overextend.
Latch Seeker is a good option if your manabase can fit him, wich probably won't be the case if you're running stangleroot geist and want to cast him reliabily at turn 2. You will have a hard time cuving from geist at T2 and seeker at T3
Considering how conditional it is, i would give preference to Rapid Hybridzation over Pit Fight. There's two times when you want to use a removal:
1 - When opponent creature is bigger than yours.
2 - When opponent creature have a strong utility.
You can't use Pit fight for the case 1. Also Hybridzation can be used on Evolve tricks and the no regeneration clause migh be relevant.
Exactly what vitcor said i think.
Wolfir avenger´s regeneration is HUUUUGE. Control will not like this dude on eot turn 3, since if you play it correctly, the supreme verdict won´t do anything to it. Plus it´s an INCREDIBLE weapon against mono red, which in my testing kind of favours us (biomancer is just game) but is sometimes just determined by a coin flip, no joking.
The other 3 drops are meh.
For the 2 drops i kind of like the 2/1 with evolve and flash. He doesn´t seem to be that bad. Geist and guildmage should be solid 4 of each though. Snapcaster COULD be good to replay simic charm only, but otherwise not that awesome. If i had to stick some in, i´d play 2, no more.
I´m currently running the following list
4 Cloudfin Raptor
4 Experiment One
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Zameck Guildmage
3 Wolfir Avenger
3 Master Biomancer
3 Rancor
4 Simic Charm
2 Rapid Hybridization
2 Hands of Binding
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Breeding pool
4 Hinterland Harbor
3 Woodland Cemetery
2 Simic Guildgate
3 Island
4 Forest
3 Appetite for Brains
3 Golgari Charm
1 Aetherize
5 ?
And even though i´ve been getting control to ragequit left and right, i´m still not sold on the numbers. I have been having some issues mainly with the guildgates and i don´t know if removing a hybridization and the dissipates for additional young wolves, raptors and avengers is the best. There are 0 counters main this way.
The sideboard needs help though. Against control i side out the hands of binding and the hybridizations (unless Obzedat, ghost council) is involved. So i´d bring in 4 cards, usually 2 or 3 Golgari charm and 1 or 2 appetites. So, what the hell are the negates for? Maybe i can turn them into Essence scatters against aggro... but still not sure (maybe unsummons)
Any ideas?
A huge thanks to Argetlam and the guys at Hakai studios for this awesome banner
Other than that it seems weird to dilute the colors to add in black.
I would like to see garruk in here in some way. Primal makes big dudes, especially with guildmage. And draws cards. While smaller garruk is amazing at making it more like a combo deck. You sac geist to bring in guildmages. Then draw cards to reset undying. While also tutoring for the creatures you need to take over the game. Probably going with primal since it's bigger and more raw. You don't always have the time to play around.
I guess all this is to say drop young wolf down to a 1 or 2 and put in primal hunter.
The only reason I would run 4 young wolf is if I was running 4 rapid hybridization. young wolf has a lot of synergy with this deck, but he is kinda a bad card, I only run him because he enables more frog lizards for me.
Tusk sb at the very least. It's a house in here. I had one game where I pongified my tusk eot after activating gm 3 times. Gg.
Oozeify is a pretty good mini combo also. Basically reads U: put a 3/3 token into play. Brokeny goodness.
I think the wolf is ok. I might be wrong. But it would be either oung wolf or raptor leaving. I want to be able to beat mono red even if i´m on the play. Young wolf blocks and trades later on (hopefully). Plus, young wolf with rancor is already a threat, beating for 3 on turn 2 and potentially 4. 7
Against control, if you are on the play, you can go: t1 wolf t2 guildmage and t3 maybe geist, they on turn 4 play land and smash and pass. Now if they verdict does nothing. you activate guildmage twice and you´ve got 9 power right there. I dont know, i really like the wolf :/ i´ll have to see.
I don´t like the krasis. It evolves everything (we´re talking experiment one and raptor, only those dudes), but it doesn´t hit. I´d rather play dreg mangler for sure. Garruk might be ok, i´d play the little one though. If you curve out nicely, then a garruk relentless is really hard to hill. Then i guess you can sac a geist to tutor for another one and smash. Could be nice.
A huge thanks to Argetlam and the guys at Hakai studios for this awesome banner
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Zameck Guildmage
4 Young Wolf
4 Faerie Imposter
3 Wolfir Avenger
4 Couldfin Raptor
4 Rancor
4 Dissipate
4 Rapid Hybridization
4 Simic Charm
Lands 21
4 Hinterland Harbor
4 Breeding Pool
4 Tracker's Instincts
4 Aetherize
4 Ambush Viper
3 Negate
So for me the main synergy is Strangleroot Geist/Young Wolf + Rancor/Rapid Hybridizationwith Zameck Guildmage for gas and card draw. Its a really aggressive combo when you go off, so I decided to try and make an fast build. Also, the Guildmage + undying dudes is a great defensive strategy as well. Against mono red, for example, this deck can play the control role with some help from a semi-transitional sideboard.
Cloudfin Raptor and Faerie Imposter both are good in my experience when trying to be aggro, sometimes even resetting a Geist with the Imposter. These would both come out when transforming to midrange.
Wolfir Avenger and Dissipate are both the curve-toppers at 3 mana. Just good resilient cards.
And I'm not convinced Experiment One is any good.