This card seems like a rather interesting option for the R/x aggro decks. It should often be online after two combat phases and is like a reusable Brimstone Volley once you get it going. Obviously it's going to be worse than Volley in situations where you need a removal spell immediately (and is susceptible to D-Sphere/O-ring), but it also has a lot more upside too. It might be a bit win-more perhaps as activating it multiple times usually means you're doing really well and probably don't need the help. Who knows though, it provides a lot of reach and I could see it competing for some spots with Brimstone Volley at the very least. Thoughts?
I agree that this thing can be useful, first off because it's not a creature and thus diversifies our threats, and secondly can make attacking where you'd normally just be blocked and die actually useful.
I think the deck it wants to be in is a boros token deck, where the creatures die often and attack even more.
I think the deck it wants to be in is a boros token deck, where the creatures die often and attack even more.
Yeah I had that thought as well after making the thread, something akin to Hellrider tokens out of Innistrad block constructed could be a good home for this card. A shell of something like:
Gather the Townsfolk/Krenko's Command
Lingering Souls
Midnight Haunting
Intangible Virtue
Hellrider
Five-Alarm Fire
The problem with this is its an absolutely terrible top deck.
Lots of cards can be absolutely horrible top decks. Stromkirk Noble is amazing early and sucks late. Yet, it's almost always played.
I can see the Alarm being good against control decks. Neither Terminus nor Supreme Verdict touch it.
On the play, you're looking at 25 damage by turn 4.
1 Land, cast Cackler
2 Land, cast Cackler and Noble, 2 damage from attacking Cackler
3 Land, cast Fires, 5 damage from attacking creatures, add 3 counters on Fires
4 Land, cast Hellrider, 18 damage (9 from creatures, 4 'rider, 5 fires), add 4 counters, remove 5 counters, 2 counters left
Even if they block the 'rider and another creature, that's still 20 damage by turn 4. And the cycle can start all over again. It's that repeatable part that has me interested in this card.
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The world is on fire
and you are here to stay and burn with me.
It's that repeatable part that has me interested in this card.
Yeah that's the main reason I think it could be good, the fact that it's almost like a Shrine of Burning Rage you get to keep using. It will have to be tested though. Like I said it could be a card that only really does anything good for you in the games you're winning anyways and while being a bad topdeck isn't a death knell it certainly hurts for a 3 mana card a lot more than it does for a 1 drop.
Seems pretty trashy and at a bad point on the curve. Any deck trying to make use of this is going to end up making itself trash in the process.
Assume that it takes 2 combats to charge this up in a good scenario. The only way I see cheating around that is the angel that lets you go into two combats. But you still need quality creatures to survive the first combat or you're pissing away any CA you might have gained.
Since it triggers off any form of damage it can actually have a large amount of utility for token decks against aggro as a kind of win-con when the board gets stalled.
You also get double the triggers if your critters have vigilance (a la intangible virtue.)
Since it triggers off any form of damage it can actually have a large amount of utility for token decks against aggro as a kind of win-con when the board gets stalled.
You also get double the triggers if your critters have vigilance (a la intangible virtue.)
double strikers like hound of griselbrand/boros charmed dude also get 2 triggers.
Not sure if pure aggro wants to spend 3rd turn to cast this instead of a creature, but it can definitely find a place in other decks. And at first I didn't notice it triggers from Combat Damage instead of Combat Damage to players, so it's better than my first glance. Very interesting card indeed.
Lots of cards can be absolutely horrible top decks. Stromkirk Noble is amazing early and sucks late. Yet, it's almost always played.
I can see the Alarm being good against control decks. Neither Terminus nor Supreme Verdict touch it.
On the play, you're looking at 25 damage by turn 4.
1 Land, cast Cackler
2 Land, cast Cackler and Noble, 2 damage from attacking Cackler
3 Land, cast Fires, 5 damage from attacking creatures, add 3 counters on Fires
4 Land, cast Hellrider, 18 damage (9 from creatures, 4 'rider, 5 fires), add 4 counters, remove 5 counters, 2 counters left
Even if they block the 'rider and another creature, that's still 20 damage by turn 4. And the cycle can start all over again. It's that repeatable part that has me interested in this card.
In the situation you describe I would rather this were just about any burn spell.
If this thing only needed 3 counters it could be useful. It's a card that people will want to be good, but will quickly realize its terrible.
Edit: Also, your math for the counters is off. When it hits the board, it would only be gaining 2 counters since you are swinging with 2 creatures.
I think this card is awesome as a R/x aggro player - it's better than most 3 drops currently in standard. For a three mana investment I can do 5 damage at instant speed while all my lands are tapped out? Hell yeah! Plus I get counters even if my creatures are chumped or I'm chumping. It breaks board stalls and gets there if I need it - I'm excited. Seems to me it'll make R/x sligh that much more efficient - on top of that you have all this Boros love with the charm and fury -- not to mention tokens and double striking in Boros colors.
I also can think of using it to deter Restos coming down or burning their target for free or burning blockers or using it to help my ash zealot (or any other first striker) live through a block from pretty much and creature in standard.
Ok in done rambling - I will say all the naysayers will eat their words when decks that include this post results -- just ask the naysayers of RDW right when RTR rotated in.
This is an awful card. 50 cents, hands down. It hardly even makes sense flavorfully, and does 5 damage around turns 6-10. Horrible in any constructed.
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What you are about to read the absolute truth about the deck that once nearly killed WotC's revenue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasM
Caw Blade is based on the ancient powerful strategy of equipping Storm Crow with Worldslayer, blowing everything up, punching your opponent in the face, stealing his cards, and running away. This new deck is a mere shell of the original caw blade's power.
To you guys dismissing a card like this in R/X aggro, I would just like to comment that current RDW builds do include cards that you wouldn't normally expect to see in an aggro deck almost entirely to give them more inevitability in the late game. It's a nice way to spend some mana on turn 5 or so when you've got 3 creatures out and don't want to play a Thundermaw Hellkite just yet (or perhaps haven't drawn it), and the fact that most decks don't commonly run enchantment removal only helps this card's case. It has inevitability. Eventually it's going to get you by doing what Red Decks want to do anyways.
I don't know if it'll be as good as it seems like it could be, but I think it's interesting. It's worth testing. And to those who say it's a "50 cent rare", so is Hellion Crucible, and that's one of Mono RDW's best cards according to some of the more experienced players of the deck (like Zem). The deck runs a lot of cards that "are useless" and puts them to fantastic use, which I'm sure anyone who's lost to a single Stonewright can attest to.
To you guys dismissing a card like this in R/X aggro, I would just like to comment that current RDW builds do include cards that you wouldn't normally expect to see in an aggro deck
50 cent rare Hellion Crucible.
Looking at current RDW, while some cards are unexpected, they have proven themselves. Also, I never said that Hellion Crucible or Stonewright were bad. Just because I don't like one red card that isn't liked during spoiling season doesn't mean I hate cards like that. Hellion Crucible is a card that and respect and believe shouldn't be 50 cents. This card should. Mono-red aggro is already so streamlined that this would likely have to replace Pyreheart Wolf, which is far better than this at uncommon.
It's an effort-filled idea, but it's too underwhelming. If it was uncommon, I'd re-evaluate it.
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Avatar by the one and only DOLZero
What you are about to read the absolute truth about the deck that once nearly killed WotC's revenue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasM
Caw Blade is based on the ancient powerful strategy of equipping Storm Crow with Worldslayer, blowing everything up, punching your opponent in the face, stealing his cards, and running away. This new deck is a mere shell of the original caw blade's power.
To you guys dismissing a card like this in R/X aggro, I would just like to comment that current RDW builds do include cards that you wouldn't normally expect to see in an aggro deck almost entirely to give them more inevitability in the late game. It's a nice way to spend some mana on turn 5 or so when you've got 3 creatures out and don't want to play a Thundermaw Hellkite just yet (or perhaps haven't drawn it), and the fact that most decks don't commonly run enchantment removal only helps this card's case. It has inevitability. Eventually it's going to get you by doing what Red Decks want to do anyways.
I don't know if it'll be as good as it seems like it could be, but I think it's interesting. It's worth testing. And to those who say it's a "50 cent rare", so is Hellion Crucible, and that's one of Mono RDW's best cards according to some of the more experienced players of the deck (like Zem). The deck runs a lot of cards that "are useless" and puts them to fantastic use, which I'm sure anyone who's lost to a single Stonewright can attest to.
I play RDW, and I can't think of a single card I'd replace this with. Hellion Crucible is good because you need lands anyway. If it were an enchantment, I doubt it would see play.
Another wasted card by playing it to safe... Had it cost RR it might find a home in rdw. R2 and maybe viable for some sort of token variation who knows. Would also of been huge had the wording been when a creature deals damage instead.
Another wasted card by playing it to safe... Had it cost RR it might find a home in rdw. R2 and maybe viable for some sort of token variation who knows. Would also of been huge had the wording been when a creature deals damage instead.
Huge is probably an understatement. If it triggered on any creature-sourced damage, then Hellrider would be FAF's best friend.
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There's something about a homemade avvy that makes you feel proud no matter how much it sucks.
I think this is too slow for RX aggro, which is the only deck that would even consider this.
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EDH Decks UWB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic's spring of life RUG Animar, Soul of the Elements and friends... lots of them WBG Karador king of two worlds (value and attrition) WRKalemne's Angels BRUG Yidris's Wild Party UWBR Breya's Terrifying Tinker Toys UBRThe Pretender
LP, I'm checking your article out as well. Behind all of your swag is the brain of one of the most intelligent Magic players I've ever known. I guess that's one more thing for you to add to the wall of ego that is your Sally sig.
I can go with that. LK, you are the Mace Windu of red mages...cool, tempered logic in deliberation, but capable of just flat kicking tail when the situation warrants it.
This card seems like a rather interesting option for the R/x aggro decks. It should often be online after two combat phases and is like a reusable Brimstone Volley once you get it going. Obviously it's going to be worse than Volley in situations where you need a removal spell immediately (and is susceptible to D-Sphere/O-ring), but it also has a lot more upside too. It might be a bit win-more perhaps as activating it multiple times usually means you're doing really well and probably don't need the help. Who knows though, it provides a lot of reach and I could see it competing for some spots with Brimstone Volley at the very least. Thoughts?
I think the deck it wants to be in is a boros token deck, where the creatures die often and attack even more.
Yeah I had that thought as well after making the thread, something akin to Hellrider tokens out of Innistrad block constructed could be a good home for this card. A shell of something like:
Gather the Townsfolk/Krenko's Command
Lingering Souls
Midnight Haunting
Intangible Virtue
Hellrider
Five-Alarm Fire
could kill people pretty quickly.
The problem with it is that it's a 3 mana enchantment with no immediate board presence. You'll have better luck triggering a morbid brimstone volley.
Lots of cards can be absolutely horrible top decks. Stromkirk Noble is amazing early and sucks late. Yet, it's almost always played.
I can see the Alarm being good against control decks. Neither Terminus nor Supreme Verdict touch it.
On the play, you're looking at 25 damage by turn 4.
1 Land, cast Cackler
2 Land, cast Cackler and Noble, 2 damage from attacking Cackler
3 Land, cast Fires, 5 damage from attacking creatures, add 3 counters on Fires
4 Land, cast Hellrider, 18 damage (9 from creatures, 4 'rider, 5 fires), add 4 counters, remove 5 counters, 2 counters left
Even if they block the 'rider and another creature, that's still 20 damage by turn 4. And the cycle can start all over again. It's that repeatable part that has me interested in this card.
The world is on fire
and you are here to stay and burn with me.
Yeah that's the main reason I think it could be good, the fact that it's almost like a Shrine of Burning Rage you get to keep using. It will have to be tested though. Like I said it could be a card that only really does anything good for you in the games you're winning anyways and while being a bad topdeck isn't a death knell it certainly hurts for a 3 mana card a lot more than it does for a 1 drop.
Assume that it takes 2 combats to charge this up in a good scenario. The only way I see cheating around that is the angel that lets you go into two combats. But you still need quality creatures to survive the first combat or you're pissing away any CA you might have gained.
You also get double the triggers if your critters have vigilance (a la intangible virtue.)
double strikers like hound of griselbrand/boros charmed dude also get 2 triggers.
This card is playing right into anyone who uses Thragtusk.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
So that narrows it down to. . . every current major deck?
-Scott-
In the situation you describe I would rather this were just about any burn spell.
If this thing only needed 3 counters it could be useful. It's a card that people will want to be good, but will quickly realize its terrible.
Edit: Also, your math for the counters is off. When it hits the board, it would only be gaining 2 counters since you are swinging with 2 creatures.
I also can think of using it to deter Restos coming down or burning their target for free or burning blockers or using it to help my ash zealot (or any other first striker) live through a block from pretty much and creature in standard.
Ok in done rambling - I will say all the naysayers will eat their words when decks that include this post results -- just ask the naysayers of RDW right when RTR rotated in.
Sig by the amazing Rivenor
Avatar by the one and only DOLZero
What you are about to read the absolute truth about the deck that once nearly killed WotC's revenue.
Originally Posted by DallasM
Caw Blade is based on the ancient powerful strategy of equipping Storm Crow with Worldslayer, blowing everything up, punching your opponent in the face, stealing his cards, and running away. This new deck is a mere shell of the original caw blade's power.
I don't know if it'll be as good as it seems like it could be, but I think it's interesting. It's worth testing. And to those who say it's a "50 cent rare", so is Hellion Crucible, and that's one of Mono RDW's best cards according to some of the more experienced players of the deck (like Zem). The deck runs a lot of cards that "are useless" and puts them to fantastic use, which I'm sure anyone who's lost to a single Stonewright can attest to.
Looking at current RDW, while some cards are unexpected, they have proven themselves. Also, I never said that Hellion Crucible or Stonewright were bad. Just because I don't like one red card that isn't liked during spoiling season doesn't mean I hate cards like that.
Hellion Crucible is a card that and respect and believe shouldn't be 50 cents. This card should. Mono-red aggro is already so streamlined that this would likely have to replace Pyreheart Wolf, which is far better than this at uncommon.
It's an effort-filled idea, but it's too underwhelming. If it was uncommon, I'd re-evaluate it.
Sig by the amazing Rivenor
Avatar by the one and only DOLZero
What you are about to read the absolute truth about the deck that once nearly killed WotC's revenue.
Originally Posted by DallasM
Caw Blade is based on the ancient powerful strategy of equipping Storm Crow with Worldslayer, blowing everything up, punching your opponent in the face, stealing his cards, and running away. This new deck is a mere shell of the original caw blade's power.
I play RDW, and I can't think of a single card I'd replace this with. Hellion Crucible is good because you need lands anyway. If it were an enchantment, I doubt it would see play.
Huge is probably an understatement. If it triggered on any creature-sourced damage, then Hellrider would be FAF's best friend.
EDH Decks
UWB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic's spring of life
RUG Animar, Soul of the Elements and friends... lots of them
WBG Karador king of two worlds (value and attrition)
WRKalemne's Angels
BRUG Yidris's Wild Party
UWBR Breya's Terrifying Tinker Toys
UBR The Pretender
Correction, the problem with it is that it's an absolutely terrible card.