I wanted to hate on this deck at first, and then I saw a comment about not using the obvious choices that everyone else is. This is true. People know how to play certain decks because they know what's coming. As a budget player, I understand the usefulness of intelligence with a certain budget over buying all the best cards, taking an already successful deck, and changing one card and saying it was your idea. Diversity will keep you in the drivers seat when your opponent THINKS he knows what you're doing.
All this being said, I personally do not like this deck at all. Thragtusk should never have been printed. The same issues people have with this card are the same as when Bonfire of the Damned came out, and everyone moaned and groaned about that. Yes, there is a card in every color that makes you want to smack your head. But even 4-ofs don't show up every game. All this being said, I think his deck is fairly cheap and highly annoying. I would hate to play a deck predicated on his ideas. But then again, I also hate nothing more than playing any deck with red or blue in it...so it is what it is
Actually I've been trying out a BGW list that rather similar to his, but I play Disciple of Bolas in conjunction with Unburial Rites. The whole point of the deck is to be a true midrange and play beatdown when necessary, but yet be able to control the game against aggro. In other words, the point of the deck is to be adaptable, which I think why his sideboard seems all over the place.
And yes, Unburial Rites is there to gain value out of his creatures, and exhaust his opponents. Not every card can only be played in certain decks.
I'm not sure that there's anything I would want to cut for Wolfir Avenger (I would actually want to get more Borderland Ranger into his list before Avengers)
I wanted to hate on this deck at first, and then I saw a comment about not using the obvious choices that everyone else is. This is true. People know how to play certain decks because they know what's coming. As a budget player, I understand the usefulness of intelligence with a certain budget over buying all the best cards, taking an already successful deck, and changing one card and saying it was your idea. Diversity will keep you in the drivers seat when your opponent THINKS he knows what you're doing.
All this being said, I personally do not like this deck at all. Thragtusk should never have been printed. The same issues people have with this card are the same as when Bonfire of the Damned came out, and everyone moaned and groaned about that. Yes, there is a card in every color that makes you want to smack your head. But even 4-ofs don't show up every game. All this being said, I think his deck is fairly cheap and highly annoying. I would hate to play a deck predicated on his ideas. But then again, I also hate nothing more than playing any deck with red or blue in it...so it is what it is
I am confused. Are you suggesting that you wouldn't play this deck / play Thragtusk because they aren't innovative enough?
I am confused. Are you suggesting that you wouldn't play this deck / play Thragtusk because they aren't innovative enough?
Well, in my opinion, I find it better to plan against the main cards of which I hate (due to the fact they stunt the flow of my types of decks), such as Thragtusk, Bonfire of the Damned, etc. Obviously I don't blame people for using these cards, because they have shown to have (at times) OP moments. You have to take my opinion with a grain of salt though...I'm biased against wanting to play with a deck that has already been used. And I don't really like how the deck plays out, not because it's not intelligent or innovative, I personally just would not like to play it nor play with it. I like bounce effects and such, but just different strategies. That's all I'm really saying. And I'd rather make a deck people aren't prepared for (not to be confused with budgeting..) so that I'm coming in with surprises that players may not have dealt with or read about on sites such as this. Cards are expensive due to how much they are played and how successful they are. I like to make "less popular" choices work I guess is what I'm saying.
Last wednesday someone brought a turbo fog mill deck that took everyone by surprise and just wiped the floor with most people. No one knew what he was doing or how to react.
Last wednesday someone brought a turbo fog mill deck that took everyone by surprise and just wiped the floor with most people. No one knew what he was doing or how to react.
That is a great example of what I'm talking about. I played a turbo fog deck a few months ago, had no idea what was going on, and ended up winning with exactly 1 card left in my library. I've never played such a frustrating game in my life...not even against control decks. Especially when they use cards that you're not familiar with due to the lack of "playability" most people would give that particular card. As an illusions player back in m12, this was the goal going in to throw your opponent for a loop with seemingly vulnerable creatures and no beefy creatures
Phantasmal image copying lord of the unreal and then having the rest of your metamorphs and phantasmal images copy that was a lot of fun to just make an army of hex proof lords that boost each other....oh and then I play wurmcoil:p
I'm not sure that there's anything I would want to cut for Wolfir Avenger (I would actually want to get more Borderland Ranger into his list before Avengers)
This decks wants to run 10 Borderland Ranger if possible.
I wanted to hate on this deck at first, and then I saw a comment about not using the obvious choices that everyone else is. This is true. People know how to play certain decks because they know what's coming. As a budget player, I understand the usefulness of intelligence with a certain budget over buying all the best cards, taking an already successful deck, and changing one card and saying it was your idea. Diversity will keep you in the drivers seat when your opponent THINKS he knows what you're doing.
All this being said, I personally do not like this deck at all. Thragtusk should never have been printed. The same issues people have with this card are the same as when Bonfire of the Damned came out, and everyone moaned and groaned about that. Yes, there is a card in every color that makes you want to smack your head. But even 4-ofs don't show up every game. All this being said, I think his deck is fairly cheap and highly annoying. I would hate to play a deck predicated on his ideas. But then again, I also hate nothing more than playing any deck with red or blue in it...so it is what it is
That is a great example of what I'm talking about. I played a turbo fog deck a few months ago, had no idea what was going on, and ended up winning with exactly 1 card left in my library. I've never played such a frustrating game in my life...not even against control decks. Especially when they use cards that you're not familiar with due to the lack of "playability" most people would give that particular card. As an illusions player back in m12, this was the goal going in to throw your opponent for a loop with seemingly vulnerable creatures and no beefy creatures
Lord decks were everywhere. It wasn't even the best U/W deck, but got decent result because it was so heavily played.
The deck in question is what I like to call a "pro deck". 50% of players would laugh at it on paper, another 45% just get crushed when trying to play it and the last 5% just crush other people with it. Ali's Charleston deck is another great example. I do like it though. It's interesting because it lets him be agressive with his creatures and have some instant speed and gy tech to back that play up. The color combination can also screw with people. He can come out like it's a G/W deck, flash some Black that makes them think Junk,which it isn't close to and finally Red just to make them think, "wtf am I playing against?:. The slime from the board did a lot of work from what I read of his tweets. I love sliming lands, but this current meta is even better for those kind of tricks.
Lord decks were everywhere. It wasn't even the best U/W deck, but got decent result because it was so heavily played.
Hipster? That's kind of assuming and arrogant for you to attempt to say anything because I am very opinionated on the topic. I am the opposite, I do my thing and I really don't care for people like you trivializing my comments. Save your judgmental tone for people who care...anyway.
When M12 came out, Lord decks (for illusions) were not everywhere. It was my first try at a deck, because they looked pretty BA. It had good results because it could go aggro with counters to boot. Not because it was so heavily played. As a matter of fact, when illusions did become big, it actually turned into the U/W non-illusion lists because everyone became prepared for illusions. Particularly when Innistrad brought Delver of Secrets into the equation. Illusions was also good (and to my previous comment's point...) because no one knew what was coming (illusions were deemed weak and fragile). Get your facts straight...that is all.
I've been testing it with his changes that he made in his article: +1 Centaur Healer -1 Borderland -2 Armada Wurm +2 Angel of Serenity, I tweaked the mana base a little bit as well.
I've played it a bit and when it runs, it is a thing of beauty.
When it stumbles. . . not so much.
At another's suggestion I replaced Ranger with Key Rune. It is at the same place on the curve and the most common mana problem is Red which keyrune address. It is also a far better card against control and fights through a lot of sweepers.
Ranger is bounceable for extra but but I'm not sure that is super relevant.
Not sure which option is better overall. THe deck is not the easiest to play, that is for sure.
That's why I took out the Isolated Chapel, I wanted to take out some Overgrown Tombs(I NEED STOMPING GROUND!!!) but it stumbled on mana. I wonder if Keyrune might be a good choice.
I've been testing it with his changes that he made in his article: +1 Centaur Healer -1 Borderland -2 Armada Wurm +2 Angel of Serenity, I tweaked the mana base a little bit as well.
How has your testing with the changes been going? I really like the concept of the deck, and I particularly like Angel of Serenity over Armada Wurm, but the mana scares me. How often do you brick on a Red or Black mana source, holding a removal spell that's chilling in your hand?
How has your testing with the changes been going? I really like the concept of the deck, and I particularly like Angel of Serenity over Armada Wurm, but the mana scares me. How often do you brick on a Red or Black mana source, holding a removal spell that's chilling in your hand?
Not very often actually. The color that you don't need as often is black. I found that adding an extra Clifftop Retreat to the mana base and taking out the Isolated Chapel helps fix not only the problem of getting triple white, but the red mana as well. It's been silky smooth now.
The deck is actually VERY good. Only thing is you have to make good mulligan decisions to keep from getting land/color screwed. Other than that the main things I notice is that:
a) you have an answer available to you for everything. I don't think there's anything your opponent can play that makes you scoop.
b) it's resilient. There are so many cards you can play that can bring you from behind to winning
c) It NEVER runs out of gas. You always have offensive and defensive options.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Big thanks to DarkNightCavalier from heroes of the planes studios for the sig!
Not very often actually. The color that you don't need as often is black. I found that adding an extra Clifftop Retreat to the mana base and taking out the Isolated Chapel helps fix not only the problem of getting triple white, but the red mana as well. It's been silky smooth now.
I find that you get screwed out of green fairly often.
I find that you get screwed out of green fairly often.
I've been playtesting this a lot lately and I've found that by dropping borderland ranger to run 25 land and dropping all the basic lands for duals the deck runs much more consistent.
Try his same list minus the borderland ranger with this manabase:
4 temple garden
3 sunpetal grove
3 blood crypt
4 rootbound crag
1 woodland cemetary
2 overgrown tomb
1 isolated chapel
3 clifftop retreat
2 cavern of souls
2 utility lands (I run 1/1 split between vault of the archangel and kessig wolf run)
plus: less mulligans
minus: more ETB tapped lands and you may end up taking a few more damage off pain lands.
I find the ETB tapped lands are easy to play around the first few turns and the life lost from pain lands is easily made up from all the lifegain in the deck.
if you ever played 5c cruel control back in the day, then you should have no problems playing around the lands.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Big thanks to DarkNightCavalier from heroes of the planes studios for the sig!
Current standard deck:
Jeskai Tokens
Modern:
Twinning End
Commander:
Mayael the Anema
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All this being said, I personally do not like this deck at all. Thragtusk should never have been printed. The same issues people have with this card are the same as when Bonfire of the Damned came out, and everyone moaned and groaned about that. Yes, there is a card in every color that makes you want to smack your head. But even 4-ofs don't show up every game. All this being said, I think his deck is fairly cheap and highly annoying. I would hate to play a deck predicated on his ideas. But then again, I also hate nothing more than playing any deck with red or blue in it...so it is what it is
And yes, Unburial Rites is there to gain value out of his creatures, and exhaust his opponents. Not every card can only be played in certain decks.
I was thinking this too, but I think that it shold replace Strangleroot Geist instead of Loxodon Smiter. MOAR flash creatures!
Strangleroot Geist isn't in the list, was there something else you were thinking of?
I'm not sure that there's anything I would want to cut for Wolfir Avenger (I would actually want to get more Borderland Ranger into his list before Avengers)
I am confused. Are you suggesting that you wouldn't play this deck / play Thragtusk because they aren't innovative enough?
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
Well, in my opinion, I find it better to plan against the main cards of which I hate (due to the fact they stunt the flow of my types of decks), such as Thragtusk, Bonfire of the Damned, etc. Obviously I don't blame people for using these cards, because they have shown to have (at times) OP moments. You have to take my opinion with a grain of salt though...I'm biased against wanting to play with a deck that has already been used. And I don't really like how the deck plays out, not because it's not intelligent or innovative, I personally just would not like to play it nor play with it. I like bounce effects and such, but just different strategies. That's all I'm really saying. And I'd rather make a deck people aren't prepared for (not to be confused with budgeting..) so that I'm coming in with surprises that players may not have dealt with or read about on sites such as this. Cards are expensive due to how much they are played and how successful they are. I like to make "less popular" choices work I guess is what I'm saying.
The end of my rant. My bad errbody...
That is a great example of what I'm talking about. I played a turbo fog deck a few months ago, had no idea what was going on, and ended up winning with exactly 1 card left in my library. I've never played such a frustrating game in my life...not even against control decks. Especially when they use cards that you're not familiar with due to the lack of "playability" most people would give that particular card. As an illusions player back in m12, this was the goal going in to throw your opponent for a loop with seemingly vulnerable creatures and no beefy creatures
This decks wants to run 10 Borderland Ranger if possible.
Oh boy, a Magic Hipster here...
Lord decks were everywhere. It wasn't even the best U/W deck, but got decent result because it was so heavily played.
The deck in question is what I like to call a "pro deck". 50% of players would laugh at it on paper, another 45% just get crushed when trying to play it and the last 5% just crush other people with it. Ali's Charleston deck is another great example. I do like it though. It's interesting because it lets him be agressive with his creatures and have some instant speed and gy tech to back that play up. The color combination can also screw with people. He can come out like it's a G/W deck, flash some Black that makes them think Junk,which it isn't close to and finally Red just to make them think, "wtf am I playing against?:. The slime from the board did a lot of work from what I read of his tweets. I love sliming lands, but this current meta is even better for those kind of tricks.
Standard
W.I.P.
EDH
WNorn Tokens
Hipster? That's kind of assuming and arrogant for you to attempt to say anything because I am very opinionated on the topic. I am the opposite, I do my thing and I really don't care for people like you trivializing my comments. Save your judgmental tone for people who care...anyway.
When M12 came out, Lord decks (for illusions) were not everywhere. It was my first try at a deck, because they looked pretty BA. It had good results because it could go aggro with counters to boot. Not because it was so heavily played. As a matter of fact, when illusions did become big, it actually turned into the U/W non-illusion lists because everyone became prepared for illusions. Particularly when Innistrad brought Delver of Secrets into the equation. Illusions was also good (and to my previous comment's point...) because no one knew what was coming (illusions were deemed weak and fragile). Get your facts straight...that is all.
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
Yeah, I think that it wants at least 3 and probably 4 in a 4 colour deck.
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
1 Centaur Healer
4 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Restoration Angel
4 Thragtusk
4 Farseek
1 Mizzium Mortars
2 Ultimate Price
3 Unburial Rites
2 Blood Crypt
4 Clifftop Retreat
2 Forest
2 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Mountain
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Plains
2 Rootbound Crag
1 Swamp
4 Temple Garden
Updated Decklist.
When it stumbles. . . not so much.
At another's suggestion I replaced Ranger with Key Rune. It is at the same place on the curve and the most common mana problem is Red which keyrune address. It is also a far better card against control and fights through a lot of sweepers.
Ranger is bounceable for extra but but I'm not sure that is super relevant.
Not sure which option is better overall. THe deck is not the easiest to play, that is for sure.
Standard
W.I.P.
EDH
WNorn Tokens
How has your testing with the changes been going? I really like the concept of the deck, and I particularly like Angel of Serenity over Armada Wurm, but the mana scares me. How often do you brick on a Red or Black mana source, holding a removal spell that's chilling in your hand?
Not very often actually. The color that you don't need as often is black. I found that adding an extra Clifftop Retreat to the mana base and taking out the Isolated Chapel helps fix not only the problem of getting triple white, but the red mana as well. It's been silky smooth now.
a) you have an answer available to you for everything. I don't think there's anything your opponent can play that makes you scoop.
b) it's resilient. There are so many cards you can play that can bring you from behind to winning
c) It NEVER runs out of gas. You always have offensive and defensive options.
Modern:
Twinning End
Commander:
Mayael the Anema
I find that you get screwed out of green fairly often.
I've been playtesting this a lot lately and I've found that by dropping borderland ranger to run 25 land and dropping all the basic lands for duals the deck runs much more consistent.
Try his same list minus the borderland ranger with this manabase:
4 temple garden
3 sunpetal grove
3 blood crypt
4 rootbound crag
1 woodland cemetary
2 overgrown tomb
1 isolated chapel
3 clifftop retreat
2 cavern of souls
2 utility lands (I run 1/1 split between vault of the archangel and kessig wolf run)
plus: less mulligans
minus: more ETB tapped lands and you may end up taking a few more damage off pain lands.
I find the ETB tapped lands are easy to play around the first few turns and the life lost from pain lands is easily made up from all the lifegain in the deck.
if you ever played 5c cruel control back in the day, then you should have no problems playing around the lands.
Modern:
Twinning End
Commander:
Mayael the Anema