UGBW

  • #1
    This decklist was listed in a SCG newsletter last week:

    MTGS_User62317's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Dudes
    4 Angel of Serenity
    4 Centaur Healer
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Restoration Angel
    4 Thragtusk

    Spells
    4 Farseek
    4 Forbidden Alchemy
    4 Tracker's Instincts
    4 Unburial Rites

    Lands
    4 Cavern of Souls
    1 Drowned Catacomb
    2 Glacial Fortress
    4 Hallowed Fountain
    4 Hinterland Harbor
    1 Island
    2 Overgrown Tomb
    2 Sunpetal Grove
    4 Temple Garden



    Thanks to MOTO not posting records, we do not know how well this deck did. Personally I feel like this list is a bit rough (for example: farseek over mulch? 4 cavern of souls?)
    That being said, switching R for U gives us a bunch of neat cards and interactions (specifically I want to abuse angel of serenity with deadeye navigator)
    Thoughts:
    Dropping R loses us potential cards like:
    Adding U gives us options to run cards like:

    While Faithless Looting is a great early game card, getting access to two spells with flashback and mill/filtering may offset this (plus Alchemy is another instant dig spell). All the mill/filter also work to enable deathrite shaman.

    While Slayer's Stronghold has been freaking amazing for me, it could be offset with EOT drops w/ Alchemist's Refuge

    Cards like Archaeomancer or Snapcaster Mage would let us rebuy any milled spells that do not have flashback.

    Manabase should not be more complex than splashing R as we do have access to Hallowed Fountain

    All this being said, what are people's thoughts? Is U a better color to run than R as our 4th?
    "Once I was human. Now I am far more."
    -Scornful Egotist

    EDH:▼
    (links to 3D generals)

    Links go to pimped out 3D general pics

    Playing:
    :symbu::symub:Sygg, River Cutthroat
    WBTeysa
    URNiv-Mizzet
    UGMormir Vig Edric (helpful)
    BGSavra
    WUBSharuum
    WUGRafiq
    WURZedruu
    WRGRith
    WUBRGChild
    Designing:
    UGEdric (Snakes)
    WBGGhave
    URGRiku
    UBRSedris
    WUBRGProgenitus

    Retired:
    WMangara
    UTeferi

  • #2
    It has a couple of 4-0 and 3-1 in Dailies. Deck seems interesting

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    Trade Thread
  • #3
    Pretty close to what i've coe uo with on brainstorming, though i overlooked instincts to fuel the Deathrite Shaman Grin

    Any i ideas on how to Sideboard this beauty?
  • #4
    The problem I see with the above list is that you're splashing blue but in the main only taking advantage of blue with Forbidden Alchemy (great) and flashback on Tracker's Instinct (I've always found that a mediocre card personally). Why no Havengul Lich? Being able to reanimate guys, both your's or the other guy's seems just so valuable that if you're going blue, why not add him in. Late game he can just continually add threats.
  • #5
    Surprised to see this deck favor Farseek over Mulch.

    Feel free to bid on my cards here!
  • #6
    I've tested the deck a fair bit. Cavern and Shaman make the control and mirror match-ups a little better. Alchemy and Instincts create huge card advantage since they each count as 2 spells and mill a lot. The main issue I had with the deck is that it's SLOW. I crushed most non-aggro decks, but literally could not beat a single Silverblade Paladin or Rancor that got played against me. Also, Shaman isn't as good in the mirror as you'd think. Most other builds run 7+ mana dorks so they can just go dork, dork, fatty as easily as they can mulch, rites a fatty. Shaman is only good when they're on the rites plan, and the dork, dork, fatty plan is much faster than you. Blue Rites' sideboard is very good, but the deck is still glacially slow.

    That said, there are a lot of aspects that can be ported to more standard builds. 3-4 Cavern is probably right in any build right now with the push from GerryT, Todd Anderson, and others of UW Flash as the current best deck in Standard. Literally half that deck is counterspells. They cannot beat Cavern.

    Shaman mained may be right with other dorks. Instincts I feel has to have a place somewhere. Having 2 mill spells bundled as one just seems too good. Maybe a lighter blue splash?
  • #7
    Gerry Thompson on Starcity Games just ran another article pushing this deck over those splashing red. The deck was pretty much the same as that linked in the first post but

    -1 Serenity Angel
    -1 Restoration Angel
    -1 Centaur Healer

    +1 Craterhoof Behemoth
    +2 Lingering Souls

    He claimed this deck was outperforming other re-animator decks by a mile on Magic Online.

    I like the look of it but like a previous comment not sure about farseek over mulch especially with a full 4 cavern of souls in the MB.
  • #8
    surprised you didn't mention thought scour or dream twist as possible blue mill. in blue would you make use of a skaab ruinator?
    Last edited by TheRogue: 11/15/2012 10:48:34 AM
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  • #10
    Quote from TheRogue
    surprised you didn't mention thought scour or dream twist as possible blue mill. in blue would you make use of a skaab ruinator?


    While thought scour and dream twist are decent mill cards, alchemy and instincts both have flashback and are not just straight mill (yeah, twist does have flashback as well).
    Dont forget that we do need a decent amount of creatures to make the deck tick.
    "Once I was human. Now I am far more."
    -Scornful Egotist

    EDH:▼
    (links to 3D generals)

    Links go to pimped out 3D general pics

    Playing:
    :symbu::symub:Sygg, River Cutthroat
    WBTeysa
    URNiv-Mizzet
    UGMormir Vig Edric (helpful)
    BGSavra
    WUBSharuum
    WUGRafiq
    WURZedruu
    WRGRith
    WUBRGChild
    Designing:
    UGEdric (Snakes)
    WBGGhave
    URGRiku
    UBRSedris
    WUBRGProgenitus

    Retired:
    WMangara
    UTeferi

  • #11
    I posted this in the deck garage, so I'll repost here in the hopes of some feedback. That threads a bit dead I think.

    I'm very new to the whole Frites scene so be gentle

    Deck
    Gammy's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Dig and stuff
    4 Forbidden Alchemy
    4 Tracker's Instincts
    3 Unburial Rites
    4 Farseek

    Creature package
    3 Centaur Healer
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    2 Pack Rat
    2 Evil Twin
    3 Restoration Angel
    3 Thragtusk
    3 Angel of Serenity
    1 Craterhoof Behemoth

    1 Cavern of Souls
    3 Glacial Fortress
    4 Hallowed Fountain
    2 Drowned Catacombs
    3 Sunpetal Grove
    4 Temple Garden
    3 Overgrown Tomb
    4 Hinterland Harbor



    So basically you can see I went a different route for my filling graveyard suite. Forbidden with flash back will end up digging deeper then anything else available, being able to pick what every I want helps too. Tracker's Instincts isn't as good as say Mulch (IMO) because you have to put a creature in your hand, but I feel like the early flash back makes up for this. Additionally I went with a couple creatures I do want in my hand IE Pack Rat, Healer

    Pack Rat is a win-con. Game 2/3 it might come out, it might not. Sweepers and Detention Sphere is what dictates this. But he's a threat in his own right, he's a discard outlet for Angel/Craterhoof and once in play he's an uncounterable engine

    Evil Twin was strictly SB for me, but it kept getting more and more value and I always wanted on in hand it seemed. So i've tried him in my 60 and he's actually quite good. Against aggro he can come down a turn earlier then Thragtusk for another 3/3 gain 3 if needed, if you can wait it out another Thragtusk doesn't hurt either. He's great against opposing Angel of Serenity's Geist, ect. Where he really shines is his synergy with Restoration Angel there are so many plays between these two that I find myself figuring out new ones each time I have a chance to. Even little things like Healer t3, Twin t4, Restoration bounce twin gain three more life or have another flying threat that sticks around for even more crazy plays later. Obvious ones like Copy Thragtusk, copy Craterhoof-Copy opposing Angel of Serenity's ect ect

    Its IMO underutilized by the decks that can support him, but in this deck, he works in so many ways.

    Playing blue also allows me to have a better interaction with the opposing player. I found with out blue I dumped as much stuff in my GY as I could cast a fatty and hoped for the best. Where as now I can have my own sweepers in the SB, I can have targeted removal for Planeswalkers in Detention Sphere I could even refill my hand with Sphinx's Revelation.

    Its an Unburial Rites list with all the same fatties you all use, I just get them in my GY a different way and have options to me opened that typical lists dont.

    Additionally I wanted a way to interact more with some Bant Control or U/W control U/W flash lists. Healers out for Loxodon Smiter, Pack Rat and being able to play Blue myself has made these match ups a lot more consistent and I feel less like I'm playing against them and myself. Some games with a non-blue list I felt like I had no control over any move I made. Now, I have greater interaction with the player and therefore greater success.

    Question though-Is my Mana correct? I feel like its a bit G/W heavy still and could use a suggestion on that-I've always had the worse time getting my mana right.

    Any other suggestions or feedback is welcome though.
  • #12
    Quote from Gammy
    I posted this in the deck garage, so I'll repost here in the hopes of some feedback. That threads a bit dead I think.

    I'm very new to the whole Frites scene so be gentle

    Deck
    Storkseek's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Dig and stuff
    4 Forbidden Alchemy
    4 Tracker's Instincts
    3 Unburial Rites
    4 Farseek

    Creature package
    3 Centaur Healer
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    2 Pack Rat
    2 Evil Twin
    3 Restoration Angel
    3 Thragtusk
    3 Angel of Serenity
    1 Craterhoof Behemoth

    1 Cavern of Souls
    3 Glacial Fortress
    4 Hallowed Fountain
    2 Drowned Catacombs
    3 Sunpetal Grove
    4 Temple Garden
    3 Overgrown Tomb
    4 Hinterland Harbor



    So basically you can see I went a different route for my filling graveyard suite. Forbidden with flash back will end up digging deeper then anything else available, being able to pick what every I want helps too. Tracker's Instincts isn't as good as say Mulch (IMO) because you have to put a creature in your hand, but I feel like the early flash back makes up for this. Additionally I went with a couple creatures I do want in my hand IE Pack Rat, Healer

    Pack Rat is a win-con. Game 2/3 it might come out, it might not. Sweepers and Detention Sphere is what dictates this. But he's a threat in his own right, he's a discard outlet for Angel/Craterhoof and once in play he's an uncounterable engine

    Evil Twin was strictly SB for me, but it kept getting more and more value and I always wanted on in hand it seemed. So i've tried him in my 60 and he's actually quite good. Against aggro he can come down a turn earlier then Thragtusk for another 3/3 gain 3 if needed, if you can wait it out another Thragtusk doesn't hurt either. He's great against opposing Angel of Serenity's Geist, ect. Where he really shines is his synergy with Restoration Angel there are so many plays between these two that I find myself figuring out new ones each time I have a chance to. Even little things like Healer t3, Twin t4, Restoration bounce twin gain three more life or have another flying threat that sticks around for even more crazy plays later. Obvious ones like Copy Thragtusk, copy Craterhoof-Copy opposing Angel of Serenity's ect ect

    Its IMO underutilized by the decks that can support him, but in this deck, he works in so many ways.

    Playing blue also allows me to have a better interaction with the opposing player. I found with out blue I dumped as much stuff in my GY as I could cast a fatty and hoped for the best. Where as now I can have my own sweepers in the SB, I can have targeted removal for Planeswalkers in Detention Sphere I could even refill my hand with Sphinx's Revelation.

    Its an Unburial Rites list with all the same fatties you all use, I just get them in my GY a different way and have options to me opened that typical lists dont.

    Additionally I wanted a way to interact more with some Bant Control or U/W control U/W flash lists. Healers out for Loxodon Smiter, Pack Rat and being able to play Blue myself has made these match ups a lot more consistent and I feel less like I'm playing against them and myself. Some games with a non-blue list I felt like I had no control over any move I made. Now, I have greater interaction with the player and therefore greater success.

    Question though-Is my Mana correct? I feel like its a bit G/W heavy still and could use a suggestion on that-I've always had the worse time getting my mana right.

    Any other suggestions or feedback is welcome though.


    I really like the inclusion of evil twin in this list. it just open a lot of possibilities and plays. Have you tried Alchemist's refuge though? i feel that this card has a lot of potential i mean you can just cast unburial rites EOT or evil twin EOT.
  • #13
    Quote from Storkseek
    I really like the inclusion of evil twin in this list. it just open a lot of possibilities and plays. Have you tried Alchemist's refuge though? i feel that this card has a lot of potential i mean you can just cast unburial rites EOT or evil twin EOT.


    I have not. I already feel like my mana isn't right-If you could tell me how to get a bit more Black (I'm always looking for my first black) I would love to find a spot for Alchemist's Refuge.

    Oh, I've taken the suggestion of someone above and used Mulch instead of Farseek. At first I was like WFT? Thats how I ramp/get the colors I need. But so far its actually pretty good. Many times Mulch will get me three/four lands in hand which enables me to put one in the GY on discard, or a creature, enabling a quicker/consistent Rites or Shaman doing some work with mana in the yard.

    Which I have to say is actually getting me more use then either of his other abilities, exile a land for one mana any color is pretty good.

    To add further to Evil Twin-Its amazing. It kills in the Rites mirror match. They cannot keep up.

    Its so amazing.
  • #14
    Blue has such great sideboard options. Supreme Verdict? Undead Alchemist? Yes please.
  • #15
    Quote from Gammy
    I have not. I already feel like my mana isn't right-If you could tell me how to get a bit more Black (I'm always looking for my first black) I would love to find a spot for Alchemist's Refuge.

    Oh, I've taken the suggestion of someone above and used Mulch instead of Farseek. At first I was like WFT? Thats how I ramp/get the colors I need. But so far its actually pretty good. Many times Mulch will get me three/four lands in hand which enables me to put one in the GY on discard, or a creature, enabling a quicker/consistent Rites or Shaman doing some work with mana in the yard.

    Which I have to say is actually getting me more use then either of his other abilities, exile a land for one mana any color is pretty good.

    To add further to Evil Twin-Its amazing. It kills in the Rites mirror match. They cannot keep up.

    Its so amazing.


    Gammy,

    Absolutely love the evil twin inclusion! Mulch is much better and add a Tomb instead of the singleton Cavern. With just 4 spells needing a singleton B, 6 lands and your mulch options should get you there by turn 4. I also honestly hate the Pack Rats and Refuge doesnt do enough to warrant being in your deck so you are right to be wary. Id fill out the healer, thragtusk suites instead of the rats. Will be building a version as soon as my cards come in. Thanks!
  • #16
    Thank you for the suggestions and feedback! Lemme know how your testing plays out. It feels like Blue isn't getting enough momentum when I believe it should.

    But who am I right? Grin

    Maybe if more Gerry's or high profile magic players start pushing it ppl might see what actually here.

    With some tinkering *like your and other's suggestions* I feel like its got further reach then any other variation right now.
  • #17
    Quote from Gammy
    Maybe if more Gerry's or high profile magic players start pushing it ppl might see what actually here.


    Some of the fireball/scg people seem to be on a version of the blue deck in Charleston at the moment, though the list seems more like a ramp deck with a graveyard engine instead of actual reanimator.. And GerryT already wrote about the initial japanese list.
    Last edited by Deetwo: 11/18/2012 3:09:09 AM
    DCI Rules Advisor
  • #18
  • #19
    That's just the japanese list card for card I think. And for the record, evil twin is awesome.. Even if it's a four mana phantasmal image.
    Either way, still not impressed by trackers over grisly salvage at all.. I mean, how is that even a choice?
    DCI Rules Advisor
  • #20
    It digs deeper. Can be easily milled without crying after.
  • #21
    Quote from yarpus
    It digs deeper. Can be easily milled without crying after.


    Exactly. With the Mulch change over Farseek in my list having those lands in hand are a non-issue. My Grave yard gets full much quicker with the blue then it does with Red.
  • #22
    Greetings everyone. I wanted to chime on this deck as I have been piloting it for several weeks now and have had an enormous amount of success. I attend at least 4 live events per week between 2 LGS which on average get at least 30 players per event. It's extremely competitive so you go through a gauntlet of top tier decks to place.

    With that being said, the list I run is slightly different as I made changes the more I played with it.

    -2 Centaur Healer
    -1 Deathrite Shaman
    -1 Tracker's Instincts
    -1 Island

    +2 Lingering Souls
    +2 Mulch
    +1 Overgrown Tomb

    Sideboard:
    2 Centaur Healer
    1 Deathrite Shaman
    2 Detention Sphere
    1 Oblivion Ring
    4 Supreme Verdict
    1 Ray of Revelation
    1 Memory's Journey
    1 Sphinx's Revelation
    1 Craterhoof Behemoth
    1 Sigarda

    Reasons to changes in MB:

    Lingering Souls: Value, value, value. This card is just too good not to play. It buys you extra turns against aggro decks.. They can also prove to be a threat if not dealt with. And obviously the flashback giving you the ability to play it from gy if it gets milled.

    Mulch: I added this card because the deck plays a lot like a ramp deck so this card has been extremely good for me. It also allows you to dig for your cavern which can be critical in several matchups.

    In my opinion, the deck isn't really a rites deck but more ramp with 7-8 ramp cards MD as well as Tracker's Instincts which forces you to take a creature card while getting the needed protection from caverns. I hardcast much more than I rites in a lot of the matches.

    Unburial rites just give the deck extreme value, resiliency and the nuts.

    The sideboard options are also ridiculous in the current meta giving you access to some of the strongest cards in the format like verdict, sphere and revelation.

    I was never a big rites player and was much more control but this list really caught my attention because of it's versatility, Caverns and access to Blue for the cards mentioned above.

    This deck completely blows out u/w flash and uwr midrange, with the exception of a wheeled out GoST which can be tough. It also has good matchups against midrange.

    The harder matchups are humans, zombies and rdw. But these were already tough for the rites matchup, hence the inclusion of lingering souls. But hey, you get to board in 4 verdicts, which can be a complete blowout for your opponent.

    The toughest matchup is any control deck running terminus but since that card has been on the decline, rites has been extremely strong right now. My buddy brewed a U/W miracle deck that I just couldn't beat. It was very hard but no one really plays that list so I'm ok with it.

    If you have any questions, please post them. And anyone thinking of trying this deck, give it a test flight, you won't be disappointed.

    @Gammy: It's extremely critical to run 4 Caverns. This deck relies on this card heavily for several matchups because you hardcast a lot and the fixing is just added bonus. The deck can sometimes be very slow so you want to make sure you land your threats late in the game especially against decks that run counterspells.
    Last edited by TigerBlood: 11/19/2012 1:04:18 PM
  • #23
    I have been testing the blue version for a while and I think it is pretty good... I like it more than the R version. In any case, the problem with grizzly salvage is the mana base..as it is ..one cannot reliably cast it early..so trackers instinct is a better choice in that sense..and it has flashback. I really like the MD shamans (I run 3) they are very very useful in many matchups.

    I have been testing dispel in the sb vs the control matchup..to complement the caverns and is working pretty nice. The biggest benefit I think is, besides countering their counters of course, neutralizing the sphinx's revelation.

    Also, has anyone tested alchemyst refuge? I am running 2 copies (only have 2 caverns =P )..and allows for some nice tricks..specially with the sb.. instant Verdict, etc.
  • #24
    @airgaps: The dispel does seem a bit interesting. I'd rather just answer their sphinx with my own. I run one in my sb. I am however considering one mb and having one more in the sb. I've also considered a dissipate in my sb. The double blue however is a bit awkward.

    I wouldn't test any other non colored lands since I run 4 caverns which I think you should. But since you're short on the caverns, refuge seems interesting although its pretty useless G1. You could do some tricks but by that time, you'll have enough mana to hardcast everything, assuming you have a cavern, with no fear.
    Last edited by TigerBlood: 11/19/2012 3:07:02 PM
  • #25
    I see you point..I actually got the 3rd cavern today and will pbbly just buy the other one.. regarding the refuge..it although it also allows other interesting plays..like instant unburial rites and of course instant creatures..Not saying it is better than caverns..just that it has potential..=) maybe a 3-2 split ?
  • #26
    I play tested last night in 2 man queues =) Went like 7-0..and bought the fourth cavern with the tickets =) Caverns is just too good..and extremely difficult to handle for the UW and UWR player. It makes the dispel kind of superfluous... playing an uncounterable cratherhoof is awesome =)

    Also in the GW matchup... I found that having access to verdict is super important.. I alos recommend playing Feeling of dread in sb for the monoR matchup.
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