Hey there, I'm surprised this deck hasn't moved to the "Established" forum yet with recent performance at major tourneys.
I just want to say that I've played against a lot of these around where I live and the meta is very competitive (a couple pro tour players, one who's been to worlds, kibler plays at my shop occassionally). One guy took first on both Saturday and Sunday with this deck in a pool of 14 players followed by 32 players on Sun. The player had been piloting it for the last 3 weeks and started off with the netlist doing poorly, he didn't start doing really well until he added desperate ravings to the deck to get more card draw and smooth out the consistency. He's also tweaked the number of counterspells and his sideboard is very well tailored to the local meta.
Hey there, I'm surprised this deck hasn't moved to the "Established" forum yet with recent performance at major tourneys.
I just want to say that I've played against a lot of these around where I live and the meta is very competitive (a couple pro tour players, one who's been to worlds, kibler plays at my shop occassionally). One guy took first on both Saturday and Sunday with this deck in a pool of 14 players followed by 32 players on Sun. The player had been piloting it for the last 3 weeks and started off with the netlist doing poorly, he didn't start doing really well until he added desperate ravings to the deck to get more card draw and smooth out the consistency. He's also tweaked the number of counterspells and his sideboard is very well tailored to the local meta.
Thoughts on a 1-1 split of Hellkite and Conscripts in the main? With a format that does feature a lot of good targets for the conscripts, I feel like it should see play a bit.
I am with you on this one, this deck does not benefit from having a random card at discard in the graveyard.
Also the UW Aggro at the time did not have the premier that I had already constructed while this seemed like a better place than being considered a variant of aggro when midrange is fundamentally different aggro decks.
Thoughts on a 1-1 split of Hellkite and Conscripts in the main? With a format that does feature a lot of good targets for the conscripts, I feel like it should see play a bit.
I am thinking of adding in the Archwing Dragon but I may put in a 1-1-1 split and remove a pillar. (reasoning in previous post)
no love for Thought Scour + Runechanter's Pike ? its been working great for me in my UWR midrange. and you always get a good laugh from Azorius Charm + Thought Scour.
Updated the OP with the current incarnation of this deck, and Wednesday I will test out the 4/3 searing spear/pillar of flame, along with the 1/1/1 going Thundermaw Hellkite, Archwing Dragon, Zealous Conscripts
no love for Thought Scour + Runechanter's Pike ? its been working great for me in my UWR midrange. and you always get a good laugh from Azorius Charm + Thought Scour.
The problem for me is fitting them into my build. First, I run a couple Cavern of Souls in lieu of Moorland Haunt, so no pike-wielding spirit tokens for me. Second, what should I remove to make room for it? Going the pike route, I would want a minimum of two pikes, along with the full set of Though Scour, which is a lot to remove from my existing build. Finally, I wouldn't be too happy if I milled one of my creatures doing this, since I don't run Moorland Haunt, and I would probably cry if that creature was one of my Thundermaw Hellkites.
Updated the OP with the current incarnation of this deck, and Wednesday I will test out the 4/3 searing spear/pillar of flame, along with the 1/1/1 going Thundermaw Hellkite, Archwing Dragon, Zealous Conscripts
21 lands makes me nervous... Please report on how well you like Archwing Dragon once you get some games in. I am also very interested in testing that card out.
The problem for me is fitting them into my build. First, I run a couple Cavern of Souls in lieu of Moorland Haunt, so no pike-wielding spirit tokens for me. Second, what should I remove to make room for it? Going the pike route, I would want a minimum of two pikes, along with the full set of Though Scour, which is a lot to remove from my existing build. Finally, I wouldn't be too happy if I milled one of my creatures doing this, since I don't run Moorland Haunt, and I would probably cry if that creature was one of my Thundermaw Hellkites.
This is what I'm playing. Yes, I've hit a hellkite with scour but its never really hurt me. I was also playing 1-2 Mizzium Mortars to answer Loxidon Smiter and I really liked it overall. Moorland Haunt + Runechanter's Pike wins games. You need to fit a Haunt in if you go Pike.
He tried both and found Ravings to be better. I think it is too, you run 4 snapcasters and 4 resto angels so cards in graveyard are potentially more snapcaster targets.
He tried both and found Ravings to be better. I think it is too, you run 4 snapcasters and 4 resto angels so cards in graveyard are potentially more snapcaster targets.
Unless they are the restoration angels, thunderrmaw, or snapcasters
The "random" part of the Desperate Ravigns discard just scares mo off. Even Faithless Looting and Izeet Charm are better options, IMHO.
How is your mana base with 4 clifftop retreats instead of basic lands?
im still testing it out. its not bad if i hit one of my shocks early. the only problem is the random ghost quarter every now and then. i dont have anything to search if they hit my moorland haunt.
I would dump three of the M13 duals to make room for one of each basic, and not just because of Ghost Quarter. With no basics and two colorless lands, you're going to have a lot of opening hands where all your colored mana comes in tapped for the first few turns. This is a deck that wants mana up on turn two on the play, or turn one when on the draw.
23 lands has been working for me, I always want .5 more land though... 23-24 is the right spot to be honest.
Runcatcher Pike is a total gimmick. Your dorks should get there through the course of a game, and I would avoid relying on Pike for sealing the deal.
Scour, Think Twice and Ravings are also pretty bad. Azorius Charm and Izzet charm should be all the dig you really need and they also have other options if need be.
You certainly want a basic of each if for some reason you ever run into ghost quarter, which may or may not see more play if and when cavern comes in more frequently. 3 basics hardy impacts your mana, but it offers outs to those random situations.
I know I said I would have the local standard Wednesday but I decided to play test today as well getting ready for the GP - Charleston.
The archwing dragon is amazing, not only did it win me a game where my opponent ultimated tamiyo and had unlimited supreme verdicts but it also came to win a game that someone slaughter games me for Thundermaw Hellkite, and I had the Archwing in hand... their face = priceless
Right now I am finding that 21 is too little, and would love to go to 23 with 2 utility lands depending on the meta, right now it is desolate lighthouse. (maybe just maybe 2 ghost quarter is cavern of souls becomes popular again but not the norm)
The 4/3 spilt of searing spear and pillar of flame was off, having a 3/3 split seems better. I might even use Izzet charm in place of pillar or searing spear and will drop think twice to 2 instead of 3. That way I can still keep semi decent hands that will not require a mulligan.
The unsummon is a great utility card but I am dropping it down to 2, it is nice but I see it way too often and use it conservatively as it is.
Losing these 3 cards lets me put in the 2 lands that I need and 1 extra to test the 1 of zealous conscripts (it is ANY permanent)
Unless they are the restoration angels, thunderrmaw, or snapcasters
The "random" part of the Desperate Ravigns discard just scares mo off. Even Faithless Looting and Izeet Charm are better options, IMHO.
Think Twice > Desperating Ravings, I guess.
Regards,
bitbroosher.
I think mathematically desperate ravings is a better card. Minimally you're increasing your net playable cards by 2, potentially 3 if you discard an instant/sorcery. There's that fear of the random discard but as pure numbers guy I don't read into the few unlucky discards too much. You can also hold on to extra lands.
so i dropped the thought scours and pikes. theyre definitely better in UW flash (prosak!) i like a third hellkite in the main with slayers stronghold. great finisher after youve gotten in a geist hit or two. current list is:
in my meta game there is literally only 1 zombie player so i have pillars in the side instead of the main. izzet charm is so good. good for countering planeswalkers. kills huntmaster. play it. ive also been considering running tamiyo main over jace. still got lots of testing to do.
so i dropped the thought scours and pikes. theyre definitely better in UW flash (prosak!) i like a third hellkite in the main with slayers stronghold. great finisher after youve gotten in a geist hit or two. current list is:
in my meta game there is literally only 1 zombie player so i have pillars in the side instead of the main. izzet charm is so good. good for countering planeswalkers. kills huntmaster. play it. ive also been considering running tamiyo main over jace. still got lots of testing to do.
Your deck looks nearly identical to mine,
However I have 2 tamiyos in the main board over Jace (He really does not do much for me except kill other Jaces)
I have 2 Disipate over the Tamiyo (Debating on 1 in sideboard so 3 post board)
Debating on Archwing in the sideboard, it is such a power house against control.
And taking this to GP - Charleston this weekend hopefully it will put me in day 2
I just want to say that I've played against a lot of these around where I live and the meta is very competitive (a couple pro tour players, one who's been to worlds, kibler plays at my shop occassionally). One guy took first on both Saturday and Sunday with this deck in a pool of 14 players followed by 32 players on Sun. The player had been piloting it for the last 3 weeks and started off with the netlist doing poorly, he didn't start doing really well until he added desperate ravings to the deck to get more card draw and smooth out the consistency. He's also tweaked the number of counterspells and his sideboard is very well tailored to the local meta.
Why Desperate Ravings over Think Twice?
4 Mantis Rider
4 Seeker of the Way
3 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Soulfire Grand Master
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mystic Monastery
4 Shivan Reef
3 Temple of Epiphany
3 Temple of Triumph
1 Outpost Siege
3 Dig Through Time
1 Disdainful Stroke
4 Lightning Strike
4 Stoke the Flames
3 Valorous Stance
3 Wild Slash
1 Outpost Siege
1 Abzan Advantage
2 Disdainful Stroke
1 Erase
2 Negate
1 Valorous Stance
2 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Anger of the Gods
3 End Hostilities
1 Glare of Heresy
I am with you on this one, this deck does not benefit from having a random card at discard in the graveyard.
Also the UW Aggro at the time did not have the premier that I had already constructed while this seemed like a better place than being considered a variant of aggro when midrange is fundamentally different aggro decks.
I am thinking of adding in the Archwing Dragon but I may put in a 1-1-1 split and remove a pillar. (reasoning in previous post)
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Giest of Saint Traft
4 Restoration Angels
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
Card Advantage
4 Azorius Charm
3 Think Twice
Burn
4 Pillar of Flames
3 Searing Spear
1 Dissipate
3 Syncopate
2 Essence Scatter
Misc
3 Unsummon
2 Detention Sphere
Lands
2 Desolate Lighthouse
19 Other stuff
3 Dungeon Giest
2 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
2 Negate
2 Dissipate
3 Supreme Verdict
3 Devil's Play
Updated the OP with the current incarnation of this deck, and Wednesday I will test out the 4/3 searing spear/pillar of flame, along with the 1/1/1 going Thundermaw Hellkite, Archwing Dragon, Zealous Conscripts
The problem for me is fitting them into my build. First, I run a couple Cavern of Souls in lieu of Moorland Haunt, so no pike-wielding spirit tokens for me. Second, what should I remove to make room for it? Going the pike route, I would want a minimum of two pikes, along with the full set of Though Scour, which is a lot to remove from my existing build. Finally, I wouldn't be too happy if I milled one of my creatures doing this, since I don't run Moorland Haunt, and I would probably cry if that creature was one of my Thundermaw Hellkites.
21 lands makes me nervous... Please report on how well you like Archwing Dragon once you get some games in. I am also very interested in testing that card out.
This is what I'm playing. Yes, I've hit a hellkite with scour but its never really hurt me. I was also playing 1-2 Mizzium Mortars to answer Loxidon Smiter and I really liked it overall. Moorland Haunt + Runechanter's Pike wins games. You need to fit a Haunt in if you go Pike.
4 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Restoration Angel
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
2 Detention Sphere
2 Runechanter's Pike
4 Thought Scour
4 Azorius Charm
2 Syncopate
2 Dissipate
2 Essence Scatter
3 Unsummon
3 Searing Spear
1 Desolate Lighthouse
4 Steam Vents
4 Hallowed Fountains
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Sulfur Falls
4 Clifftop Retreat
4 Knight of Glory
2 Tamiyo Moon Sage
2 Negate
3 Purify the Gave
4 Supreme Verdict
He tried both and found Ravings to be better. I think it is too, you run 4 snapcasters and 4 resto angels so cards in graveyard are potentially more snapcaster targets.
Unless they are the restoration angels, thunderrmaw, or snapcasters
The "random" part of the Desperate Ravigns discard just scares mo off. Even Faithless Looting and Izeet Charm are better options, IMHO.
Think Twice > Desperating Ravings, I guess.
Regards,
bitbroosher.
im still testing it out. its not bad if i hit one of my shocks early. the only problem is the random ghost quarter every now and then. i dont have anything to search if they hit my moorland haunt.
EDH: Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Runcatcher Pike is a total gimmick. Your dorks should get there through the course of a game, and I would avoid relying on Pike for sealing the deal.
Scour, Think Twice and Ravings are also pretty bad. Azorius Charm and Izzet charm should be all the dig you really need and they also have other options if need be.
You certainly want a basic of each if for some reason you ever run into ghost quarter, which may or may not see more play if and when cavern comes in more frequently. 3 basics hardy impacts your mana, but it offers outs to those random situations.
The archwing dragon is amazing, not only did it win me a game where my opponent ultimated tamiyo and had unlimited supreme verdicts but it also came to win a game that someone slaughter games me for Thundermaw Hellkite, and I had the Archwing in hand... their face = priceless
Right now I am finding that 21 is too little, and would love to go to 23 with 2 utility lands depending on the meta, right now it is desolate lighthouse. (maybe just maybe 2 ghost quarter is cavern of souls becomes popular again but not the norm)
My current land distribution is
The 4/3 spilt of searing spear and pillar of flame was off, having a 3/3 split seems better. I might even use Izzet charm in place of pillar or searing spear and will drop think twice to 2 instead of 3. That way I can still keep semi decent hands that will not require a mulligan.
The unsummon is a great utility card but I am dropping it down to 2, it is nice but I see it way too often and use it conservatively as it is.
Losing these 3 cards lets me put in the 2 lands that I need and 1 extra to test the 1 of zealous conscripts (it is ANY permanent)
I think mathematically desperate ravings is a better card. Minimally you're increasing your net playable cards by 2, potentially 3 if you discard an instant/sorcery. There's that fear of the random discard but as pure numbers guy I don't read into the few unlucky discards too much. You can also hold on to extra lands.
04 Snapcaster Mage
04 Geist of Saint Traft
04 Restoration Angel
03 Thundermaw Hellkite
Planeswalkers - 02
02 Jace, Architect of Thought
Instants - 19
02 Unsummon
03 Searing Spear
02 Syncopate
02 Essence Scatter
02 Dissipate
03 Izzet Charm
04 Azorius Charm
01 Sphinx's Revelation
04 Hallowed Fountain
04 Steam Vents
04 Clifftop Retreats
04 Glacial Fortress
04 Sulfur Falls
01 Mountain
01 Island
01 Plains
01 Slayer's Stronghold
03 Pillar of Flame
03 Knight of Glory
02 Dungeon Geists
02 Tamiyo, The Moon Sage
02 Negate
03 Supreme Verdict
in my meta game there is literally only 1 zombie player so i have pillars in the side instead of the main. izzet charm is so good. good for countering planeswalkers. kills huntmaster. play it. ive also been considering running tamiyo main over jace. still got lots of testing to do.
Your deck looks nearly identical to mine,
However I have 2 tamiyos in the main board over Jace (He really does not do much for me except kill other Jaces)
I have 2 Disipate over the Tamiyo (Debating on 1 in sideboard so 3 post board)
Debating on Archwing in the sideboard, it is such a power house against control.
And taking this to GP - Charleston this weekend hopefully it will put me in day 2
EDIT: Thought on niv-mizzet? I know he's not really what this deck wants to do as far as his casting cost, but his ability is just so powerful.
Primer UWR Tempo
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
oops..old forum!