If it was broken, we would have noticed it before the rotation. And it's not like Stoneforge Mystic who only got insane with the cards introduced in the next block, Thragtusk got nothing new to abuse in RTR.
The fact is, it is essentially the opposite of Stoneforge. Thragtusk's emergence is a result of cards (and the strategies they enable) leaving the format.
Thragtusk is well answered by counters, plain and simple, and the deck holding down the midrange strategies that feature thragtusk so prominently we well answered by tempo decks that could frustrate their four and five cost cards with counters and bounce. The removal of the cheap cantrips and phyrexian spells that enabled delver has weakened that strategy enough that people don't run it anymore, so thragtusk is well positioned to dominate the midrange/control heavy, board position and incremental card advantage based meta that has come about in the wake of RTR.
It speaks to the fact that it shouldn't be banned, the right mix of cards kept it down until now, adding some effective countermeasures to the format should be enough to keep the thragtusk population under control.
If you like running aggro, and you feel stifled in this format due to the presence of thragtusk, remember that Gruul and Boros are two of the three guilds that really carry the aggro torch in Ravnica (Rakdos being the other) and we haven't see them yet.
You're probably right, but it would still be a great answer, wouldn't it?
If I were looking for answers to Thragtusk, I would sooner play something like Undermine that actually answers the whole card, rather than focusing just on its life gain abilities.
Arrest would honestly be the best answer around for Thragtusk, but it is currently being paired more often than not with Restoration Angel, which invalidates that answer, though it works well as an answer to Thragtusks coming from Jund decks.
Thrag is a good card, a very good card. Obviously, it should have been 3GG. Or a 4/2 that left a 2/2 for 4G. It's really not ban worthy though, not even close. It's just rather annoying.
Hmmm ... let's see. I played Thrag yesterday (first time all season) and only won one match all night. First time that's happened in 6 weeks of FNM. I didn't play against one deck that beat me that was playing him itself.
You're right, this card is absolutely busted to hell and should be banned.
Yes Thragtusk is a good card, but he isn't the only 5CMC card in every deck. If you are playing GW aggro, Wolfir Silverheart beats the CRAP out of thraggy.... likewise if you're using RG aggro (or maybe even midrange) Thundermaw Hellkite is your card of choice.
When you're up against thraggy you want to do one of two things:
1. in the fastest super-cheap sligh aggro decks, use threaten effects. Traitorous Blood and Mark of Mutiny at worst negate the 5-life gain while also removing a blocker and at best allow you to sacrifice thrag to aristocrat for a 3/3 beast!
2. In the not so fast decks, you want creatures that simply have 6 toughness. The midrange decks that thraggy thrives in have very few options for dealing with fatties, their burn doesn't reach that far, decay doesn't reach that far ect. The only really efficient methods they have for removing them are the the GW/UW charms (one of which needs your fatty to enter combat) and dreadbore.
Responsible of those 40 minutes battles that make people scoop of boredom.
This is something I don't get. Me, I love long battles that are drawn out. Where the decisions matter, and things go beyond turn 6 good game. I like my games to last, thank you very much, because I want to play true games, not coinflips. What's wrong with that?
For that, much love to Thragtusk.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
^ I actually agree. It's turned the entire format into midrange which is fun.
And LandBoy.. you need to knock it off. You're coming across so bad in this thread - read your posts objectively. We get it, you don't think Tusk is that good. You lost because of him. Doesn't change the fact that the format at shops across the world are warping around him. His event deck is selling out at 30bucks/each + shipping.. come on man. He's flat out awesome - 5/3 for 5, gives 5 life, splashes into anything, gives value even in death/exile, energizes with pretty much all of the rest of the green and white cards incredibly well.
You asked early "what's the point in pointing out a card's power" - because that's what Standard is about. The pool of cards are like a tapestry and the more powerful ones see more play and the tapestry becomes woven around them. Last season Primeval Titan and the ramp package warped the format, as did Delver and his packet of cantrips. Right now it's Thragtusk and Thragtusk alone. It works in Bant, it works in Junk, it works in Selesnya, and it works in Jund. Hell I saw a Naya brew forcing it. I've seen 4 color control forcing it. It's a single card warping the format and that's pretty crazy. Even Jace had Stoneforge and a pretty clear deck type.
Thragtusk warps the format because:
When he hits, it stops aggro almost cold. Combined with Centaur Healer and Resto Angel, aggro had died in my meta. It honestly has zero chance. This forces the games to run long - you see people getting to 7+ mana in pretty much every game. It changes the scope of threats and the scope of answers. Most importantly though, there are no good answers to Thragtusk. Hand disruption is about the only good answer but it's a pretty bad one at the moment. You're basically playing a bad choice while Thragtusk is simply a splash so the rest of their deck is still threats you're not answering while trying to deal with Tusk. The answer? Run him too and try to build a better package than they have so the Tusk war ends up being some kind of tank-esqe ground skirmish with the real war being played out with Angels of Serenities, Board Wipes, Angel Armadas, or Vampire Chicks.
Which is pretty awesome really. It creates complex game states and you see so many more cards hitting the field that you've never seen before.
I think people like you come across really bad. Very few people here are crying - in fact, you and 1 or 2 others are the ones crying. We're simply stating what Thragtusk is doing to the game right now - for better or for worse. There is really no denying it though.
This is something I don't get. Me, I love long battles that are drawn out. Where the decisions matter, and things go beyond turn 6 good game. I like my games to last, thank you very much, because I want to play true games, not coinflips. What's wrong with that?
For that, much love to Thragtusk.
There's nothing wrong with that, they banned one of the best control cards ever in Modern because of the time restrictions, decisions had to be made too on these matches. And decisions for staying alive, not "do I reanimate Thrag now or next turn?", "do I loop Thrag now or next turn?". Thragtusk doesn't make decisions matter more than another card, it just give you health boosts until one of the players runs out of gas and/or ways to abuse the beast. Don't get me wrong, I like long games too, but these are ridiculously boring.
^ I actually agree. It's turned the entire format into midrange which is fun.
And LandBoy.. you need to knock it off. You're coming across so bad in this thread - read your posts objectively. We get it, you don't think Tusk is that good. You lost because of him. Doesn't change the fact that the format at shops across the world are warping around him. His event deck is selling out at 30bucks/each + shipping.. come on man. He's flat out awesome - 5/3 for 5, gives 5 life, splashes into anything, gives value even in death/exile, energizes with pretty much all of the rest of the green and white cards incredibly well.
You asked early "what's the point in pointing out a card's power" - because that's what Standard is about. The pool of cards are like a tapestry and the more powerful ones see more play and the tapestry becomes woven around them. Last season Primeval Titan and the ramp package warped the format, as did Delver and his packet of cantrips. Right now it's Thragtusk and Thragtusk alone. It works in Bant, it works in Junk, it works in Selesnya, and it works in Jund. Hell I saw a Naya brew forcing it. I've seen 4 color control forcing it. It's a single card warping the format and that's pretty crazy. Even Jace had Stoneforge and a pretty clear deck type.
Thragtusk warps the format because:
When he hits, it stops aggro almost cold. Combined with Centaur Healer and Resto Angel, aggro had died in my meta. It honestly has zero chance. This forces the games to run long - you see people getting to 7+ mana in pretty much every game. It changes the scope of threats and the scope of answers. Most importantly though, there are no good answers to Thragtusk. Hand disruption is about the only good answer but it's a pretty bad one at the moment. You're basically playing a bad choice while Thragtusk is simply a splash so the rest of their deck is still threats you're not answering while trying to deal with Tusk. The answer? Run him too and try to build a better package than they have so the Tusk war ends up being some kind of tank-esqe ground skirmish with the real war being played out with Angels of Serenities, Board Wipes, Angel Armadas, or Vampire Chicks.
Which is pretty awesome really. It creates complex game states and you see so many more cards hitting the field that you've never seen before.
I think people like you come across really bad. Very few people here are crying - in fact, you and 1 or 2 others are the ones crying. We're simply stating what Thragtusk is doing to the game right now - for better or for worse. There is really no denying it though.
First of all, I'm not crying about anything because I don't have a problem with anything. I think the current meta is diverse, interesting and great. It's the people complaining that Tusk is warping the meta that have the problem.
I was just pointing out that playing it isn't an auto win. Nothing in this standard is. Saying you don't like this standard because everybody is playing Tusk (not the case at my LGS) is just as ridiculous as saying you don't like this standard because everybody is playing green.
In a limited card pool (which is what standard always was and always will be) you're going to inevitably have a card, a deck or both, that stand out. And unless WotC starts printing super large sets again, this isn't going to change.
One needs to just look at the total number of played cards between all 5 colors to see that there isn't a hell of a lot out there that's viable in this or any meta.
On average, out of a 273 card set, you get between 30 and 40 cards that are standard playable if you want to build a top tier deck. That's been the average since I can remember.
That means, in a block with 4 sets (one core and 3 expansions) you have MAYBE 125 to 150 playable cards between 5 colors. And that includes lands and artifacts.
Do the math. Doesn't leave a hell of a lot to play with.
But don't take my word for it. Go look at all the top tier decks right now and count the individual cards and see how many there are.
So why does it surprise anyone when something like Tusk or Delver or WRR or anything happens.
If you don't want to deal with this inherent problem with the format, then play something else. Because the last time we really had a diverse standard was Time Spiral simply because the card pool was immense.
Having said all that, as bad as Tusk might be, it's not the end of the world and doesn't need to be banned.
That's all I'm saying. Nothing more and nothing less.
Hmmm ... let's see. I played Thrag yesterday (first time all season) and only won one match all night. First time that's happened in 6 weeks of FNM. I didn't play against one deck that beat me that was playing him itself.
You're right, this card is absolutely busted to hell and should be banned.
Wow, it's the return of the, "I played Delver last night and lost every single match!" argument. Says a lot more about you than the card/deck.
Personal experiences aren't important at all, IMO. I don't care about "I won a match vs a player who cast 4 Thragtusk with my UW Aggro deck" or "I lost with my Thragtusk vs a really bad deck", we can't discuss that, and we are getting the thread closed by a Mod if we start with the personal interactions again :/
Today there's another SCG Open, we all can see the results of that, so let's see if Thragtusk is format shaping or if it's just a filler creature like a lot of people say.
The previous 6 weeks I made top 8 or better 5 times and never lost more than one match in swiss.
You know nothing about me as a player so don't make comments when you don't know what you're talking about.
Tusk is not the end of the world or the be all and end all.
Doesn't matter how good or bad a player you are.
What? Your reputation more than preceeds you here on the boards and Spellsnare is right, you are making the exact same arguments/grumblings as you did in the previous Standard meta threads.
The anecdotal evidence of your LGS that you cite as gospel every time means diddly squat.
There's nothing wrong with that, they banned one of the best control cards ever in Modern because of the time restrictions, decisions had to be made too on these matches. And decisions for staying alive, not "do I reanimate Thrag now or next turn?", "do I loop Thrag now or next turn?". Thragtusk doesn't make decisions matter more than another card, it just give you health boosts until one of the players runs out of gas and/or ways to abuse the beast. Don't get me wrong, I like long games too, but these are ridiculously boring.
I'm not entirely certain about Modern, so forgive me if I am wrong about this, but I presume that the card you are talking to is Sensei's Divining Top? Because if so, that is more because it is a repeatable action that on its own takes more time then the effect should take. Yes, it's sorta on Ponder and friends, but they are one-off effects (Barring Snapcaster Mage) and thus it's one card that on its own can take a lot of time in the game.
Thragtusk doesn't do that. The actions of Thragtusk each are pretty simple (Play: Gain 5 life. Leave: Gain a token) and these actions itself take no decision time unlike with Top. Therefore, the way Thragtusk warps time taken in matches is entirely different from Top, which is just a repetitive decision making process. I get that you must take your time about deciding what to play, but unlike with your cards like Resto Angel and Tusk, the Sensei player can only start deciding once he sees the next 3 cards, thus taking more mental time.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
What? Your reputation more than preceeds you here on the boards and Spellsnare is right, you are making the exact same arguments/grumblings as you did in the previous Standard meta threads.
The anecdotal evidence of your LGS that you cite as gospel every time means diddly squat.
And your opinion of me means diddly squat.
Back on topic.
I'm not even sure what all the people complaining about Thragtusk are trying to prove or what point they're trying to make.
That the card is played a lot? Great. So what? In the history of this game there have been lots of cards that have been played a lot. So what's different now?
That the card is warping the meta? So what? Lots of cards in the history of this game have warped the meta. Some got banned when it got out of control. Others didn't.
That you believe the card should be banned? Great. That's your opinion. Ultimately, it's WotC that's going to decide if the card gets banned or not. My money says that when January comes, everybody will STILL be happily playing their Thragtusks unless Gatecrash comes out with some card that hoses it.
So I really have to ask, what's the point?
It's not like we're seeing Affinity, Academy, Black Summer or any of the degenerate decks that we've seen in the past. We're seeing lots of decks, some playing Thrag as a mainstay and some splashing for it as a 1 or 2 of.
Great. So what? If you want to know why I don't get this thread, read some of the replies. Read all the ones that are screaming for this card to be banned or complaining about how horrible this standard is.
Obviously, these people don't know what a horrible standard REALLY is.
And that's why I don't get any of this.
If you want to challenge my arguments and logic, that's fine. But don't take pot shots at me as a person because I'm pretty fed up with that crap from this place.
If you don't like Thragtusk, write to the WotC, tell them how much you hate the card and that if they don't ban it, you'll stop playing Magic and stop buying cards.
If enough people do that, something gets done. It's the same thing I said when everybody was *****ing about Delver. Or was that my imagination? And what happened? Nothing. Neither Delver nor one card from that deck got banned.
What did they do? They printed hate for the deck.
What was the biggest card towards that hate?
The one we're *****ing about in this thread.
Guess what? That's how Standard works. And the hate that they print for Thrag will be hated just as much, if not more than Thrag itself.
That's Standard. It's inherent of the format itself. So why does any of this surprise anybody?
Guess what? That's how Standard works. And the hate that they print for Thrag will be hated just as much, if not more than Thrag itself.
That's Standard. It's inherent of the format itself. So why does any of this surprise anybody?
I think you're on to something here. Personally, I think if no one is complaining, then that is a bad sign for WoTC. That means that they don't have a big enough diverse population of people who have opinions on the game they play.
I for one am (somewhat) happy when a card above the power curve is in Standard. I would (no questions asked) quit if Standard was on the power level of say, Homelands, Fallen Empires, Ice Age, or even Kamigawa. The Dragons in Kamigawa were pretty cool though.
The main problem is that Thragtusk is just SO good, while being the easiest card in the history of Magic to play other than Basic Land. So what? Some cards above the curve were tough to play, some were fairly tough, and some are easy.
Thraggy in no way will be banned. I will one up CorpT if Thragtusk is banned and eat my whole playset on camera. In fact, I feel dirty using the two words - Thragtusk and ban, in the same sentence.
Something as simple as "2R/B - Enchantment = whenever a player would gain life, that player loses that much life instead" would be very helpful. Then people would hate this card. Then people would hate Ray of Revelation because it answers such enchantment.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Seems like this weekend SCG Open is being more diverse that's nice. Even so, half or more of the winning decks are Thragtusk decks. Good think about it is that rogue decks appear, and something like GW Humans can win the SCG!! GoGo!!!
EDIT: Seems like the Humans deck destroyed the Bant Control deck! The other Thrag deck lost too, at least an SCG without a Thragtusk winner!
Lol @ timely only "catching you up". They never cast it at 19 life when you were at 20 with 1 guy in play right? Never ever.
Technically you are catching up, and that sound like a good way to get your timely countered for free.
Really that's not addressing the point that timely was a dead card alot of games, and thragtusk isn't.
That the card is played a lot? Great. So what? In the history of this game there have been lots of cards that have been played a lot. So what's different now?
"Cards that are played alot" make up 15-40% of the top 8.
Thragtusk looks to be 60+% of the top 8. That put's it in the range have ubiquitous/broken cards.
A 40 dollar mythic rare would constitute a must have 4 of that goes in many decks.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled. I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
"Cards that are played alot" make up 15-40% of the top 8.
Thragtusk looks to be 60+% of the top 8. That put's it in the range have ubiquitous/broken cards.
That's your opinion. I don't agree with it. Have you actually PLAYED during times with "broken" cards and decks? I have. This card doesn't even come close.
Eh, 5 drop is a really good spot right now:
Garruk Primal Hunter
Wolfir Silverheart
Heck - Acidic Slime should be an allstar at the moment too.
You go into other colors and you're looking at Tamiyo, Hellkite, and others.. He's at the top of basically the best slot in the game.
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Very unlikely considering they've already printed everything Rakdos related. Maybe in "Sinker" but that seems remote.
You're probably right, but it would still be a great answer, wouldn't it?
Thragtusk is well answered by counters, plain and simple, and the deck holding down the midrange strategies that feature thragtusk so prominently we well answered by tempo decks that could frustrate their four and five cost cards with counters and bounce. The removal of the cheap cantrips and phyrexian spells that enabled delver has weakened that strategy enough that people don't run it anymore, so thragtusk is well positioned to dominate the midrange/control heavy, board position and incremental card advantage based meta that has come about in the wake of RTR.
It speaks to the fact that it shouldn't be banned, the right mix of cards kept it down until now, adding some effective countermeasures to the format should be enough to keep the thragtusk population under control.
If you like running aggro, and you feel stifled in this format due to the presence of thragtusk, remember that Gruul and Boros are two of the three guilds that really carry the aggro torch in Ravnica (Rakdos being the other) and we haven't see them yet.
If I were looking for answers to Thragtusk, I would sooner play something like Undermine that actually answers the whole card, rather than focusing just on its life gain abilities.
Arrest would honestly be the best answer around for Thragtusk, but it is currently being paired more often than not with Restoration Angel, which invalidates that answer, though it works well as an answer to Thragtusks coming from Jund decks.
Wizards... is REALLY bad at printing answer cards to certain decks.
That being said, he's tolerable. But pretty much the thing people do now cause nothing else is better.
You're right, this card is absolutely busted to hell and should be banned.
When you're up against thraggy you want to do one of two things:
1. in the fastest super-cheap sligh aggro decks, use threaten effects. Traitorous Blood and Mark of Mutiny at worst negate the 5-life gain while also removing a blocker and at best allow you to sacrifice thrag to aristocrat for a 3/3 beast!
2. In the not so fast decks, you want creatures that simply have 6 toughness. The midrange decks that thraggy thrives in have very few options for dealing with fatties, their burn doesn't reach that far, decay doesn't reach that far ect. The only really efficient methods they have for removing them are the the GW/UW charms (one of which needs your fatty to enter combat) and dreadbore.
Good luck!
This is something I don't get. Me, I love long battles that are drawn out. Where the decisions matter, and things go beyond turn 6 good game. I like my games to last, thank you very much, because I want to play true games, not coinflips. What's wrong with that?
For that, much love to Thragtusk.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
And LandBoy.. you need to knock it off. You're coming across so bad in this thread - read your posts objectively. We get it, you don't think Tusk is that good. You lost because of him. Doesn't change the fact that the format at shops across the world are warping around him. His event deck is selling out at 30bucks/each + shipping.. come on man. He's flat out awesome - 5/3 for 5, gives 5 life, splashes into anything, gives value even in death/exile, energizes with pretty much all of the rest of the green and white cards incredibly well.
You asked early "what's the point in pointing out a card's power" - because that's what Standard is about. The pool of cards are like a tapestry and the more powerful ones see more play and the tapestry becomes woven around them. Last season Primeval Titan and the ramp package warped the format, as did Delver and his packet of cantrips. Right now it's Thragtusk and Thragtusk alone. It works in Bant, it works in Junk, it works in Selesnya, and it works in Jund. Hell I saw a Naya brew forcing it. I've seen 4 color control forcing it. It's a single card warping the format and that's pretty crazy. Even Jace had Stoneforge and a pretty clear deck type.
Thragtusk warps the format because:
When he hits, it stops aggro almost cold. Combined with Centaur Healer and Resto Angel, aggro had died in my meta. It honestly has zero chance. This forces the games to run long - you see people getting to 7+ mana in pretty much every game. It changes the scope of threats and the scope of answers. Most importantly though, there are no good answers to Thragtusk. Hand disruption is about the only good answer but it's a pretty bad one at the moment. You're basically playing a bad choice while Thragtusk is simply a splash so the rest of their deck is still threats you're not answering while trying to deal with Tusk. The answer? Run him too and try to build a better package than they have so the Tusk war ends up being some kind of tank-esqe ground skirmish with the real war being played out with Angels of Serenities, Board Wipes, Angel Armadas, or Vampire Chicks.
Which is pretty awesome really. It creates complex game states and you see so many more cards hitting the field that you've never seen before.
I think people like you come across really bad. Very few people here are crying - in fact, you and 1 or 2 others are the ones crying. We're simply stating what Thragtusk is doing to the game right now - for better or for worse. There is really no denying it though.
There's nothing wrong with that, they banned one of the best control cards ever in Modern because of the time restrictions, decisions had to be made too on these matches. And decisions for staying alive, not "do I reanimate Thrag now or next turn?", "do I loop Thrag now or next turn?".
Thragtusk doesn't make decisions matter more than another card, it just give you health boosts until one of the players runs out of gas and/or ways to abuse the beast. Don't get me wrong, I like long games too, but these are ridiculously boring.
First of all, I'm not crying about anything because I don't have a problem with anything. I think the current meta is diverse, interesting and great. It's the people complaining that Tusk is warping the meta that have the problem.
I was just pointing out that playing it isn't an auto win. Nothing in this standard is. Saying you don't like this standard because everybody is playing Tusk (not the case at my LGS) is just as ridiculous as saying you don't like this standard because everybody is playing green.
In a limited card pool (which is what standard always was and always will be) you're going to inevitably have a card, a deck or both, that stand out. And unless WotC starts printing super large sets again, this isn't going to change.
One needs to just look at the total number of played cards between all 5 colors to see that there isn't a hell of a lot out there that's viable in this or any meta.
On average, out of a 273 card set, you get between 30 and 40 cards that are standard playable if you want to build a top tier deck. That's been the average since I can remember.
That means, in a block with 4 sets (one core and 3 expansions) you have MAYBE 125 to 150 playable cards between 5 colors. And that includes lands and artifacts.
Do the math. Doesn't leave a hell of a lot to play with.
But don't take my word for it. Go look at all the top tier decks right now and count the individual cards and see how many there are.
So why does it surprise anyone when something like Tusk or Delver or WRR or anything happens.
If you don't want to deal with this inherent problem with the format, then play something else. Because the last time we really had a diverse standard was Time Spiral simply because the card pool was immense.
Having said all that, as bad as Tusk might be, it's not the end of the world and doesn't need to be banned.
That's all I'm saying. Nothing more and nothing less.
And if you don't like my posts, don't read them.
Come at me bro, 4-1 last night, American Control lost to that!
Wow, it's the return of the, "I played Delver last night and lost every single match!" argument. Says a lot more about you than the card/deck.
The previous 6 weeks I made top 8 or better 5 times and never lost more than one match in swiss.
You know nothing about me as a player so don't make comments when you don't know what you're talking about.
Tusk is not the end of the world or the be all and end all.
Doesn't matter how good or bad a player you are.
Ah Spellsnare, answering terms used in Magic for 500, go ahead.
What is variance?
Today there's another SCG Open, we all can see the results of that, so let's see if Thragtusk is format shaping or if it's just a filler creature like a lot of people say.
What? Your reputation more than preceeds you here on the boards and Spellsnare is right, you are making the exact same arguments/grumblings as you did in the previous Standard meta threads.
The anecdotal evidence of your LGS that you cite as gospel every time means diddly squat.
I'm not entirely certain about Modern, so forgive me if I am wrong about this, but I presume that the card you are talking to is Sensei's Divining Top? Because if so, that is more because it is a repeatable action that on its own takes more time then the effect should take. Yes, it's sorta on Ponder and friends, but they are one-off effects (Barring Snapcaster Mage) and thus it's one card that on its own can take a lot of time in the game.
Thragtusk doesn't do that. The actions of Thragtusk each are pretty simple (Play: Gain 5 life. Leave: Gain a token) and these actions itself take no decision time unlike with Top. Therefore, the way Thragtusk warps time taken in matches is entirely different from Top, which is just a repetitive decision making process. I get that you must take your time about deciding what to play, but unlike with your cards like Resto Angel and Tusk, the Sensei player can only start deciding once he sees the next 3 cards, thus taking more mental time.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
And your opinion of me means diddly squat.
Back on topic.
I'm not even sure what all the people complaining about Thragtusk are trying to prove or what point they're trying to make.
That the card is played a lot? Great. So what? In the history of this game there have been lots of cards that have been played a lot. So what's different now?
That the card is warping the meta? So what? Lots of cards in the history of this game have warped the meta. Some got banned when it got out of control. Others didn't.
That you believe the card should be banned? Great. That's your opinion. Ultimately, it's WotC that's going to decide if the card gets banned or not. My money says that when January comes, everybody will STILL be happily playing their Thragtusks unless Gatecrash comes out with some card that hoses it.
So I really have to ask, what's the point?
It's not like we're seeing Affinity, Academy, Black Summer or any of the degenerate decks that we've seen in the past. We're seeing lots of decks, some playing Thrag as a mainstay and some splashing for it as a 1 or 2 of.
Great. So what? If you want to know why I don't get this thread, read some of the replies. Read all the ones that are screaming for this card to be banned or complaining about how horrible this standard is.
Obviously, these people don't know what a horrible standard REALLY is.
And that's why I don't get any of this.
If you want to challenge my arguments and logic, that's fine. But don't take pot shots at me as a person because I'm pretty fed up with that crap from this place.
If you don't like Thragtusk, write to the WotC, tell them how much you hate the card and that if they don't ban it, you'll stop playing Magic and stop buying cards.
If enough people do that, something gets done. It's the same thing I said when everybody was *****ing about Delver. Or was that my imagination? And what happened? Nothing. Neither Delver nor one card from that deck got banned.
What did they do? They printed hate for the deck.
What was the biggest card towards that hate?
The one we're *****ing about in this thread.
Guess what? That's how Standard works. And the hate that they print for Thrag will be hated just as much, if not more than Thrag itself.
That's Standard. It's inherent of the format itself. So why does any of this surprise anybody?
I think you're on to something here. Personally, I think if no one is complaining, then that is a bad sign for WoTC. That means that they don't have a big enough diverse population of people who have opinions on the game they play.
I for one am (somewhat) happy when a card above the power curve is in Standard. I would (no questions asked) quit if Standard was on the power level of say, Homelands, Fallen Empires, Ice Age, or even Kamigawa. The Dragons in Kamigawa were pretty cool though.
The main problem is that Thragtusk is just SO good, while being the easiest card in the history of Magic to play other than Basic Land. So what? Some cards above the curve were tough to play, some were fairly tough, and some are easy.
Thraggy in no way will be banned. I will one up CorpT if Thragtusk is banned and eat my whole playset on camera. In fact, I feel dirty using the two words - Thragtusk and ban, in the same sentence.
Something as simple as "2R/B - Enchantment = whenever a player would gain life, that player loses that much life instead" would be very helpful. Then people would hate this card. Then people would hate Ray of Revelation because it answers such enchantment.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)EDIT: Seems like the Humans deck destroyed the Bant Control deck! The other Thrag deck lost too, at least an SCG without a Thragtusk winner!
Technically you are catching up, and that sound like a good way to get your timely countered for free.
Really that's not addressing the point that timely was a dead card alot of games, and thragtusk isn't.
"Cards that are played alot" make up 15-40% of the top 8.
Thragtusk looks to be 60+% of the top 8. That put's it in the range have ubiquitous/broken cards.
Stats About Mythics
-Mythics are on average 40% rarer than pre-mythic rares
(old blocks about 200 rares, Mythic blocks 35+ mythics)
-They are printing more new cards a year not less
(about 665 now vs. 630 in most pre-mythic block)
-To drop the value of a rare by $1 a mythic must go up $2
-In a 3 year time span deck prices doubled.
I am petitioning for the removal of mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
That's your opinion. I don't agree with it. Have you actually PLAYED during times with "broken" cards and decks? I have. This card doesn't even come close.
Eh, 5 drop is a really good spot right now:
Garruk Primal Hunter
Wolfir Silverheart
Heck - Acidic Slime should be an allstar at the moment too.
You go into other colors and you're looking at Tamiyo, Hellkite, and others.. He's at the top of basically the best slot in the game.