I gotta say that in comparison to Scars/Inn standard this season is turning out to be a lot more to my liking. I think this is primarily due to Sword of War and Peace and Sword of Feast and Famine no longer being around. Those two very similar cards were in a large majority of competitive decks of varying colours. In part due to the obvious power level of such cards and the lack of colour requirement.
Dunno why I ranted about that. I really like the current distribution of decks and cards within those decks. Thragtusk is in a lot of things but no where close to being in every matchup. Anyone else happy/unhappy with the current meta? and D'you reckon there'll be a similar card(s) with an overbearing presence in standard this season?
I think this is primarily due to Sword of War and Peace and Sword of Feast and Famine no longer being around. Those two very similar cards were in a large majority of competitive decks of varying colours. In part due to the obvious power level of such cards and the lack of colour requirement.
Near the end of that format the swords were'nt even seeing that much play, I'm sure there were at least as many Runechanter's Pikes being played than both swords put together.
I like the new meta, but don't doubt that it's just for the novelty. It's no coincidence that in EVERY stable meta people claim to dislike the decks in the meta.
I really miss birthing pod but I do like the current meta. All we really need is a decent combo deck in the format. (If you think mana ramp counts shut the **** up)
It's exactly what a healthy meta should look like. Yes, certain cards feel like linchpins that every deck needs, like Thragtusk, but you've got your basic food groups covered: aggro (zombies), control (miracles), midrange (Jund and Bant), and combo feels like it's on the verge of a breakthrough (not that I think one Epic Experiment deck at a small States tournament means the deck is gauntlet-approved, but that's certainly a better sign anything the previous standard offered).
Standard is working with a very small card pool right now. That there's so much variance at this point is impressive. And unlike last season, it's not variance in one direction. Scars/Innistrad had a lot of different decks (I don't think it's fair to think of last season as merely Delver), but they all more or less walked the same path: aggressively pursue your six drops, or aggressively equip your one drops.
The only reason someone might be unhappy with the current meta is that it's too open, and not as well defined, and therefore hard to prepare for. Which to me is silliness. Now is the time to construct homebrews, and find out what works and what doesn't. Now's the time to chase your inner genius (I had no idea Caleb was so scientifically minded).
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Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
There's a lot of viable decks, but every deck is completely brainless. I'd rather have an established top deck where the better player won the mirror more than 55% of the time, like during cawblade.
I'm going to be the "other" guy here and say that I absolutely hate this meta. Anyone who thinks that it is varied in some way obviously thinks that the rest of the cards in their deck matter more than the 3-4 Thragtusks that they jammed into the list, and they're delusional.
I have just gotten really sick of watching games turn into "Who played the last Thragtusk." Say what you will about the hayday of Delver, at least those matchups were sometimes interesting to watch. Right now it feels like every competitive deck is "Crash Thragtusks into eachother until someone is dead or we go to time."
Swords were nothing. At least Swords required you to keep a dude alive. Delver was an interesting deck because it required you to make decisions. No decision is difficult with Thragtusk. It is value both dead and alive. Real tired of it.
As much as Thragtusk wars can be a bit annoying, I'm enjoying the midrange shift of the format. Yes it's clear that having Thragtusk or not is huge, but I don't think it's warping to the point of ridiculous. Hell I'm seeing more aggro decks (zombies) now than last season where I play.
Bigoted hatred like that has no place here, Solarsion. Grow up.
Regarding the tread subject itself, I think the meta is solid. Thragtusk is a bit annoying, but aggro decks can still beat it, and aggro will get more of a push with Gatecrash than most expect, I think.
Aggro can beat a single Thragtusk or a deck not built to abuse him, like Jund. Anything more than that and you may as well just scoop.
I went to a 15-man Standard tournament last night running Zombies. While each round of mine ended in about 15-20 turns over 3 games, there were way too many "Thragtusk, go" games. When game 1 takes 35 minutes, there's a problem.
Aggro can beat a single Thragtusk or a deck not built to abuse him, like Jund. Anything more than that and you may as well just scoop.
While this is true, aggro matchups are horrible against UW control and miracles. (Literally the only decks that don't actually run Thragtusk.) You can't even make the matchup favorable because Supreme Verdict is uncounterable and countering Terminus is still losing out on mana equity usually.
I don't want to say that Thragtusk is the only reason that the metagame is stale right now, but it is a huge factor and the very presence of the card has cut the need for a lot of innovation. Too often on these forums do I see threads where someone will post a deck idea, and without fail, every single time, someone will post "You should drop X color and add green and play Farseeks and Thragtusks." Basically every deck is better off with it right now.
There has been a little innovation in the sense that people have seen that Thragtusk battles are inevitable and have taken to using Chalice of Life/Chalice of Death to break the mirror, but overall nobody is brewing without the card because between Farseek and Thrag your quality of life is just so vastly improved.
I guess everybody's experience is different. I love this meta. Last week I saw ONE Thragtusk in 5 matches.
ONE.
I have yet to play him and in the last 5 weeks, I've lost one match each week going into the top 8 and not ONCE did I lose to a Tusk.
What I'd like to know is what's this Angel of Serenity/Thragtusk loop everybody is talking about? I haven't seen it and have no idea what it does?
So what's the poop on that?
Play Angel of Serenity, get back a few other goodies, usually involving Thragtusk under her. Once the Angel dies and some Thraggies are gone again, play your next Angel, selecting the first + any Thragtusks you have. Congratulations, you are now nigh unbeatable.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I guess everybody's experience is different. I love this meta. Last week I saw ONE Thragtusk in 5 matches.
ONE.
I have yet to play him and in the last 5 weeks, I've lost one match each week going into the top 8 and not ONCE did I lose to a Tusk.
What I'd like to know is what's this Angel of Serenity/Thragtusk loop everybody is talking about? I haven't seen it and have no idea what it does?
So what's the poop on that?
You just play Thragtusk, followed by Angel of Serenity. Replay Thragtusk. Gain ten life, an Angel of Serenity, and a 3/3 Beast. Sometimes you can even include Restoration Angels in there somewhere for more Thragtusk bouncing.
You just play Thragtusk, followed by Angel of Serenity. Replay Thragtusk. Gain ten life, an Angel of Serenity, and a 3/3 Beast. Sometimes you can even include Restoration Angels in there somewhere for more Thragtusk bouncing.
It's irritating to play against.
I'm sorry, I'm not understanding how this works. AoS exiles Thrag, assuming that's what you're doing. So how can you replay it if it's exiled?
Play Angel of Serenity, get back a few other goodies, usually involving Thragtusk under her. Once the Angel dies and some Thraggies are gone again, play your next Angel, selecting the first + any Thragtusks you have. Congratulations, you are now nigh unbeatable.
Okay, so you have to have 2 AoS to get the loop going AND you have to make sure one of them dies.
The meta isn't perfect. But it's still small, with only one set of RTR block out.
At this time in most other standard metas, RDW variants are smashing face. Having so many viable decks so soon is a good thing.
There aren't really that many viable decks when you look at it. You have four major shells:
Something involving GW with Resto and Thragtusk (includes bant)
Jund
R/B deck wins
Some sort of control that's fallen off the map since Slaughter Games is a card
Granted, the checks and balances are still there for what beats what, but it's not as wide open as people like to think.
And yes, I'm aware of American Geist and GW aggro, but we have yet to see if they're truly consistent enough to become major factors.
I had fairly high expectations of the meta, due to Innistrad being flat out amazing and the old Ravnica standard being fun. It's not a bad metagame by any means but I found myself selling my standard zombies deck to get into Legacy. Thragtusk is annoying and all over the freaking place (and not going anywhere).
Decks like "Jund Midrange" turn me off. They're clearly 'shove the best cards in 3 colors in and run with it' decks, which shouldn't be happening this early--this usually happens near the end of a rotation. The better manabases, thanks to RTR, basically make it so everyone is just playing the "best cards" rather than more synergistic two-color strategies. "Best card" decks rather than more synergistic strategies are pretty boring if you ask me. I hope Gatecrash helps to restore fast aggro (not zombies, more like Kuldotha Red or Landfall Boros) while more importantly giving COMBO a fighting chance. Combo seems really good against slower "good stuff" decks... plus combo is awesome!
This format is still in the developing phase and it will take a few weeks before things clear out. I am however somewhat worried about a few trends:
1. The format is dominated by slow decks. At FNM, there was a much greater frequency of going to time than normal. This sets up a red flag.
2. Standard midrange decks seem to promote stalled or "same-y" boardstates. It is not uncommon for both players to be at about the same life total as when they started at turn 7+ and with a board full of stuff. This exacerbates statement 1.
Neither going to time, nor sitting in board stalls is very fun for me. I don't what to watch games like that. I hope that this is because of the unsolved metagame so far.
I guess everybody's experience is different. I love this meta. Last week I saw ONE Thragtusk in 5 matches.
ONE.
I have yet to play him and in the last 5 weeks, I've lost one match each week going into the top 8 and not ONCE did I lose to a Tusk.
What I'd like to know is what's this Angel of Serenity/Thragtusk loop everybody is talking about? I haven't seen it and have no idea what it does?
So what's the poop on that?
That's funny I saw the Angel/Thrag loop several times. In two rounds in a row I saw Thragtusk cast/re-casted about 10 times. Angel was about 3-4 times during those ridiculous rounds.
That's funny I saw the Angel/Thrag loop several times. In two rounds in a row I saw Thragtusk cast/re-casted about 10 times. Angel was about 3-4 times during those ridiculous rounds.
Happened during Rob Vaca's win-and-in at SCG Indy. They both sat there casting Thragtusk for decades, which is why they drew. (Although his opponent agreed to scoop to Vaca.)
While this is true, aggro matchups are horrible against UW control and miracles. (Literally the only decks that don't actually run Thragtusk.) You can't even make the matchup favorable because Supreme Verdict is uncounterable and countering Terminus is still losing out on mana equity usually.
I don't want to say that Thragtusk is the only reason that the metagame is stale right now, but it is a huge factor and the very presence of the card has cut the need for a lot of innovation. Too often on these forums do I see threads where someone will post a deck idea, and without fail, every single time, someone will post "You should drop X color and add green and play Farseeks and Thragtusks." Basically every deck is better off with it right now.
There has been a little innovation in the sense that people have seen that Thragtusk battles are inevitable and have taken to using Chalice of Life/Chalice of Death to break the mirror, but overall nobody is brewing without the card because between Farseek and Thrag your quality of life is just so vastly improved.
I definitely feel where you're coming from but saying aggro is horrible against control seems ignorant. Playing various R/x decks, I've found the only control matchup that wasn't definitely in my favor to be BANT control and even that matchup is winnable.
LP, I'm checking your article out as well. Behind all of your swag is the brain of one of the most intelligent Magic players I've ever known. I guess that's one more thing for you to add to the wall of ego that is your Sally sig.
I can go with that. LK, you are the Mace Windu of red mages...cool, tempered logic in deliberation, but capable of just flat kicking tail when the situation warrants it.
my real whine about standard was back in "Avacyn Restored"...yes resto angel is amazing, glory's rise pretty good we nurse for human decks but that was it? Avacyn herself sucks compared to Griselbrand in standard play, it's like you name a whole set based on a EDH-viable card?
But yeh rtr has been good haha :3 I find it pretty balanced and can only get better when gatecrash drops. Ok, despite the tusk infestation, still good
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Currently Playing:
Standard: Mardu Midrange, Jeskai Wins, Naya Walkers, Boss Sligh, Mono Black Aggro
Modern: RUG Scapeshift, Burn, UG Infect
Legacy: Death n Taxes, Burn, Tendrils
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion, Krenko, Mob Boss, Narset, Enlightened Master
I definitely feel where you're coming from but saying aggro is horrible against control seems ignorant. Playing various R/x decks, I've found the only control matchup that wasn't definitely in my favor to be BANT control and even that matchup is winnable.
I am starting to hate thragtusk though >_>
Being winnable and being good matchups aren't the same. The crappy part about the matchup is the fact that if they lucksack a Terminus you probably lose if they're holding followup sweeps. Even if you don't overextend into the first, the second gets you. It is very, very frustrating. You literally have no way of having the upper hand, even in aggro decks that run blue.
Being winnable and being good matchups aren't the same. The crappy part about the matchup is the fact that if they lucksack a Terminus you probably lose if they're holding followup sweeps. Even if you don't overextend into the first, the second gets you. It is very, very frustrating. You literally have no way of having the upper hand, even in aggro decks that run blue.
I'm fine with bant being like 45% or whatever if I'm crushing all the other control decks. I suppose you lean towards humans for your aggro decks but I play red because haste is a beating. Again, Haste is a beating.
LP, I'm checking your article out as well. Behind all of your swag is the brain of one of the most intelligent Magic players I've ever known. I guess that's one more thing for you to add to the wall of ego that is your Sally sig.
I can go with that. LK, you are the Mace Windu of red mages...cool, tempered logic in deliberation, but capable of just flat kicking tail when the situation warrants it.
Dunno why I ranted about that. I really like the current distribution of decks and cards within those decks. Thragtusk is in a lot of things but no where close to being in every matchup. Anyone else happy/unhappy with the current meta? and D'you reckon there'll be a similar card(s) with an overbearing presence in standard this season?
Near the end of that format the swords were'nt even seeing that much play, I'm sure there were at least as many Runechanter's Pikes being played than both swords put together.
I like the new meta, but don't doubt that it's just for the novelty. It's no coincidence that in EVERY stable meta people claim to dislike the decks in the meta.
Draft it on Cubetutor!
It's exactly what a healthy meta should look like. Yes, certain cards feel like linchpins that every deck needs, like Thragtusk, but you've got your basic food groups covered: aggro (zombies), control (miracles), midrange (Jund and Bant), and combo feels like it's on the verge of a breakthrough (not that I think one Epic Experiment deck at a small States tournament means the deck is gauntlet-approved, but that's certainly a better sign anything the previous standard offered).
Standard is working with a very small card pool right now. That there's so much variance at this point is impressive. And unlike last season, it's not variance in one direction. Scars/Innistrad had a lot of different decks (I don't think it's fair to think of last season as merely Delver), but they all more or less walked the same path: aggressively pursue your six drops, or aggressively equip your one drops.
The only reason someone might be unhappy with the current meta is that it's too open, and not as well defined, and therefore hard to prepare for. Which to me is silliness. Now is the time to construct homebrews, and find out what works and what doesn't. Now's the time to chase your inner genius (I had no idea Caleb was so scientifically minded).
Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
I know I'm the minority though.
I have just gotten really sick of watching games turn into "Who played the last Thragtusk." Say what you will about the hayday of Delver, at least those matchups were sometimes interesting to watch. Right now it feels like every competitive deck is "Crash Thragtusks into eachother until someone is dead or we go to time."
Swords were nothing. At least Swords required you to keep a dude alive. Delver was an interesting deck because it required you to make decisions. No decision is difficult with Thragtusk. It is value both dead and alive. Real tired of it.
Because we care about facts.
Regarding the tread subject itself, I think the meta is solid. Thragtusk is a bit annoying, but aggro decks can still beat it, and aggro will get more of a push with Gatecrash than most expect, I think.
I went to a 15-man Standard tournament last night running Zombies. While each round of mine ended in about 15-20 turns over 3 games, there were way too many "Thragtusk, go" games. When game 1 takes 35 minutes, there's a problem.
GWURafiq of the TempoGWU
While this is true, aggro matchups are horrible against UW control and miracles. (Literally the only decks that don't actually run Thragtusk.) You can't even make the matchup favorable because Supreme Verdict is uncounterable and countering Terminus is still losing out on mana equity usually.
I don't want to say that Thragtusk is the only reason that the metagame is stale right now, but it is a huge factor and the very presence of the card has cut the need for a lot of innovation. Too often on these forums do I see threads where someone will post a deck idea, and without fail, every single time, someone will post "You should drop X color and add green and play Farseeks and Thragtusks." Basically every deck is better off with it right now.
There has been a little innovation in the sense that people have seen that Thragtusk battles are inevitable and have taken to using Chalice of Life/Chalice of Death to break the mirror, but overall nobody is brewing without the card because between Farseek and Thrag your quality of life is just so vastly improved.
Because we care about facts.
ONE.
I have yet to play him and in the last 5 weeks, I've lost one match each week going into the top 8 and not ONCE did I lose to a Tusk.
What I'd like to know is what's this Angel of Serenity/Thragtusk loop everybody is talking about? I haven't seen it and have no idea what it does?
So what's the poop on that?
Play Angel of Serenity, get back a few other goodies, usually involving Thragtusk under her. Once the Angel dies and some Thraggies are gone again, play your next Angel, selecting the first + any Thragtusks you have. Congratulations, you are now nigh unbeatable.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
You just play Thragtusk, followed by Angel of Serenity. Replay Thragtusk. Gain ten life, an Angel of Serenity, and a 3/3 Beast. Sometimes you can even include Restoration Angels in there somewhere for more Thragtusk bouncing.
It's irritating to play against.
Because we care about facts.
I'm sorry, I'm not understanding how this works. AoS exiles Thrag, assuming that's what you're doing. So how can you replay it if it's exiled?
Okay, so you have to have 2 AoS to get the loop going AND you have to make sure one of them dies.
Hmmm....doesn't seem like such a gimmie to me.
There aren't really that many viable decks when you look at it. You have four major shells:
Something involving GW with Resto and Thragtusk (includes bant)
Jund
R/B deck wins
Some sort of control that's fallen off the map since Slaughter Games is a card
Granted, the checks and balances are still there for what beats what, but it's not as wide open as people like to think.
And yes, I'm aware of American Geist and GW aggro, but we have yet to see if they're truly consistent enough to become major factors.
GWURafiq of the TempoGWU
People either kill Angel of Serenity (common) or die to it. (Less common.)
You have to deal with it, so if you put Thragtusk under it, you get value even if you lose the angel.
Because we care about facts.
Jund Midrange
UWR Midrange
GW Midrange
Junk Rites (with a midrange plan)
Zombies and Control have fallen off of the map. Your choice is now to play midrange.
Decks like "Jund Midrange" turn me off. They're clearly 'shove the best cards in 3 colors in and run with it' decks, which shouldn't be happening this early--this usually happens near the end of a rotation. The better manabases, thanks to RTR, basically make it so everyone is just playing the "best cards" rather than more synergistic two-color strategies. "Best card" decks rather than more synergistic strategies are pretty boring if you ask me. I hope Gatecrash helps to restore fast aggro (not zombies, more like Kuldotha Red or Landfall Boros) while more importantly giving COMBO a fighting chance. Combo seems really good against slower "good stuff" decks... plus combo is awesome!
1. The format is dominated by slow decks. At FNM, there was a much greater frequency of going to time than normal. This sets up a red flag.
2. Standard midrange decks seem to promote stalled or "same-y" boardstates. It is not uncommon for both players to be at about the same life total as when they started at turn 7+ and with a board full of stuff. This exacerbates statement 1.
Neither going to time, nor sitting in board stalls is very fun for me. I don't what to watch games like that. I hope that this is because of the unsolved metagame so far.
That's funny I saw the Angel/Thrag loop several times. In two rounds in a row I saw Thragtusk cast/re-casted about 10 times. Angel was about 3-4 times during those ridiculous rounds.
Happened during Rob Vaca's win-and-in at SCG Indy. They both sat there casting Thragtusk for decades, which is why they drew. (Although his opponent agreed to scoop to Vaca.)
Because we care about facts.
I definitely feel where you're coming from but saying aggro is horrible against control seems ignorant. Playing various R/x decks, I've found the only control matchup that wasn't definitely in my favor to be BANT control and even that matchup is winnable.
I am starting to hate thragtusk though >_>
But yeh rtr has been good haha :3 I find it pretty balanced and can only get better when gatecrash drops. Ok, despite the tusk infestation, still good
Standard: Mardu Midrange, Jeskai Wins, Naya Walkers, Boss Sligh, Mono Black Aggro
Modern: RUG Scapeshift, Burn, UG Infect
Legacy: Death n Taxes, Burn, Tendrils
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion, Krenko, Mob Boss, Narset, Enlightened Master
Being winnable and being good matchups aren't the same. The crappy part about the matchup is the fact that if they lucksack a Terminus you probably lose if they're holding followup sweeps. Even if you don't overextend into the first, the second gets you. It is very, very frustrating. You literally have no way of having the upper hand, even in aggro decks that run blue.
Because we care about facts.
I'm fine with bant being like 45% or whatever if I'm crushing all the other control decks. I suppose you lean towards humans for your aggro decks but I play red because haste is a beating. Again, Haste is a beating.