"He plays in a walk in humidor so keep his foils from bending. He once kept an all land hand just to know what it felt like to be mana flooded. He uses power nine for ante. He is the most interesting magic playing in the world." Old man, "I don't always tap basic lands for mana, but when i do, I tap Gurus."
And what is this supposed to be other than a random (albeit potentially synergetic - you're missing a sac outlet) pile of cards?
Sorry, never used the deck feature before. Was planning to type out the whole list after I tested to see if it worked. Got almost finished then had to leave house in emergency.
8 Elves in a deck which such a low curve seems really silly and the Signet was good enough so I plan to use that instead. It dodges all the wraths as well. I like the Golgari Charm more than any other option, because it can do so many different things, nuke the mirror, kill the curse or an o-ring, save from the new wrath, too good to pass up. I also think Wayfairing Temple is a bro, I don't see any of you guys enjoying it but it can get pretty bonkers. Cut the 3rd Blessing and the Golgari walker for 2 Sorin and he is a great anthem.
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BBBB mono black midrange RRRR mono red aggro GWGW selesnya aggro
I think "going bigger" is the best way to build this deck. You can get some very powerful late game interactions, attack from a few different angles and it's just NOT as fast or effective at killing quick as the good black based agro decks.
Thragtusk isn't the most synergistic card , but is essential for dealing with agro decks.
Tokens has a good late game but it can easily die in the process. I suspect it won't be able to tread water against these VERY effective agro decks that will be everywhere. Thragtusk is essential.
6 mana for blessings of the conclave is quite the stretch. Am very torn between that , Cathar's crusade, another bomb or a midnight haunting. Need testing.
One activation of Skirsdag highpriest can be INSANE in this deck. With various populate mechanics, it should only take one activation to take over the game. The deck should have a large number of creature on the battlefield, so it should be very difficult for your opponent to prevent something from dying. Needs testing.
Excess mana dorks/Land are actually very useful in this deck because of vault of the archangel and Gavony township activations.
Growing ranks is the card advantage engine of the deck and allows you to build your swarm with out over commiting your cards. Without Entreat or Skirsdag High priest, probably would cut it.
Hardcasting Entreat for 1 can be enough to take over the game with the good populate spells.
This is my attempt at token deck. I kept it in two colors, but it might be worth it to replace 4 Champion of Lambholt with 4 Lingering Souls and exchange some basic lands for Overgrown Tombs and Isolated Chapels. I'm fairly new to the game, so I'd like to ask more experienced players for advice: Is it worth it to tinker with manabase just for Souls' flashback, especially while playing cards as hard to cast as Champion of Lambholt, Angel of Jubilation and Trostani? Is it possible to make a sufficiently reliable manabase? Or is there possibly another three drop in GW worth attention? I balk at the thought of using Wayfaring Temple as I tried a similar card - Geist-honored Monk. It was horrible most of the time and quickly died after any combat unless I had already been dominating over my opponent.
I support the idea of keeping a single miracle. Drawing it early puts you only at a minor disadvantage (it's a perfect target to populate after hardcasting), while casting it for miracle cost usually wins you the game. Game's bound to slow down a bit, so miracles are going to become even better than now.
I believe Angel of Jubilation is an obligatory 4-of in this deck in the wake of rotation. Tokens desperately needs replacement for Honor of the Pure (remember that the whole point of this deck is to reap insane benefits from anthems by playing lots of little guys) and we must either go esper spirit tokens path and meet this need with Favourable Winds and Drogskol Captains or stick with Selesnya and choose the Angel. It has a decent 3/3 flying body and can be a threat in itself, it buffs all kinds of tokens Selesnya cards produce, including green Centaurs and Saprolings and blocks any sacrifice plays from Zombie and Golgari decks. (Like the ability of Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord) Sadly, it can be killed mid-combat or even stolen by Zealous Conscripts with terrible results. I doubt that Collective Blessing could be used instead, it can be hardly cast fast enough without mana dorks and including them in the deck doesn't seem like a good idea. The deck already has a considerable number of non-threat cards, anthems, diluting it even further will lead to many game losses caused by drawing into solely support cards - like anthem floods those who played BW Tokens in Innistrad might have experienced, but even more hopeless. If anything I'd try running 4 Virtue/4-8 Dorks and then only actual threats.
I had a hard time deciding on whether to run Gather the Townsfolk or Call of the Conclave as a 2-drop. I decided to exclude Gather, as with lack of Honor I fear they'd end up being useless 1/1s too often. With this change it also became pointless to keep Champion of the Parish. The deck loses many of it's explosive plays this way. After I get to play with it (or after reading other people's opinions) I might revert it. I also consider replacing some Oblivion Rings with Rootborn Defenses, if sweepers become too troublesome or Rings are rendered useless by Abrubt Decay, Doomed Travelers with Dryad Militants if graveyard decks become a thing and running more Trostani over Garruks, depending on how they fare. There's also Thragtusk if Trostani's lifegain turns out to be too slow. Increasing Devotion loses too much of it's power without Honor, doesn't it? Huh, so many things to test in play.
I think "going bigger" is the best way to build this deck. You can get some very powerful late game interactions, attack from a few different angles and it's just NOT as fast or effective at killing quick as the good black based agro decks.
Thragtusk isn't the most synergistic card , but is essential for dealing with agro decks.
Tokens has a good late game but it can easily die in the process. I suspect it won't be able to tread water against these VERY effective agro decks that will be everywhere. Thragtusk is essential.
6 mana for blessings of the conclave is quite the stretch. Am very torn between that , Cathar's crusade, another bomb or a midnight haunting. Need testing.
One activation of Skirsdag highpriest can be INSANE in this deck. With various populate mechanics, it should only take one activation to take over the game. The deck should have a large number of creature on the battlefield, so it should be very difficult for your opponent to prevent something from dying. Needs testing.
Excess mana dorks/Land are actually very useful in this deck because of vault of the archangel and Gavony township activations.
Growing ranks is the card advantage engine of the deck and allows you to build your swarm with out over commiting your cards. Without Entreat or Skirsdag High priest, probably would cut it.
Hardcasting Entreat for 1 can be enough to take over the game with the good populate spells.
I like the idea of Skirsdag, I'm just afraid that without a reliable way to get the Morbid trigger it'll be a waste.
I kept it in two colors, but it might be worth it to replace 4 Champion of Lambholt with 4 Lingering Souls and exchange some basic lands for Overgrown Tombs and Isolated Chapels. I'm fairly new to the game, so I'd like to ask more experienced players for advice: Is it worth it to tinker with manabase just for Souls' flashback, especially while playing cards as hard to cast as Champion of Lambholt, Angel of Jubilation and Trostani? Is it possible to make a sufficiently reliable manabase? Or is there possibly another three drop in GW worth attention? I balk at the thought of using Wayfaring Temple as I tried a similar card - Geist-honored Monk. It was horrible most of the time and quickly died after any combat unless I had already been dominating over my opponent.
I support the idea of keeping a single miracle. Drawing it early puts you only at a minor disadvantage (it's a perfect target to populate after hardcasting), while casting it for miracle cost usually wins you the game. Game's bound to slow down a bit, so miracles are going to become even better than now.
I believe Angel of Jubilation is an obligatory 4-of in this deck in the wake of rotation. Tokens desperately needs replacement for Honor of the Pure (remember that the whole point of this deck is to reap insane benefits from anthems by playing lots of little guys) and we must either go esper spirit tokens path and meet this need with Favourable Winds and Drogskol Captains or stick with Selesnya and choose the Angel. It has a decent 3/3 flying body and can be a threat in itself, it buffs all kinds of tokens Selesnya cards produce, including green Centaurs and Saprolings and blocks any sacrifice plays from Zombie and Golgari decks. (Like the ability of Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord) Sadly, it can be killed mid-combat or even stolen by Zealous Conscripts with terrible results. I doubt that Collective Blessing could be used instead, it can be hardly cast fast enough without mana dorks and including them in the deck doesn't seem like a good idea. The deck already has a considerable number of non-threat cards, anthems, diluting it even further will lead to many game losses caused by drawing into solely support cards - like anthem floods those who played BW Tokens in Innistrad might have experienced, but even more hopeless. If anything I'd try running 4 Virtue/4-8 Dorks and then only actual threats.
I had a hard time deciding on whether to run Gather the Townsfolk or Call of the Conclave as a 2-drop. I decided to exclude Gather, as with lack of Honor I fear they'd end up being useless 1/1s too often. With this change it also became pointless to keep Champion of the Parish. The deck loses many of it's explosive plays this way. After I get to play with it (or after reading other people's opinions) I might revert it. I also consider replacing some Oblivion Rings with Rootborn Defenses, if sweepers become too troublesome or Rings are rendered useless by Abrubt Decay, Doomed Travelers with Dryad Militants if graveyard decks become a thing and running more Trostani over Garruks, depending on how they fare. There's also Thragtusk if Trostani's lifegain turns out to be too slow. Increasing Devotion loses too much of it's power without Honor, doesn't it? Huh, so many things to test in play.
Splashing black for Lingering Souls is usually worth it, mainly because it opens up avenues of cards that we wouldn't normally have access to usually sideboard cards. For me, it opens up Deathrite Shaman, Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, Vile Rebirth, Lingering Souls, Vault of the Archangel, Golgari Charm (maybe), Tragic Slip, and Blood Arist. After fiddling around with the G/W list I found that it is not as strong without adding black for this versatility. To be honest, I find that with 4 Tombs and a few Isolated Chapels/Woodlands (not sure on the amount right now - I was doing 4/0 but I think I'm going to switch to 2/2) the black becomes a non-issue for the most part.
But I disagree with the idea that we must run little guys and power them up via anthems (such as Favourable Winds and Gather). I feel that the only reason that B/W lists did that was because their was a lack of 'good' tokens. We have those now. Call of the Conclave, Selesnya Charm, maybe the Wurm. Wizards is actively trying to slow down the game (and the only really fast deck is GB zombies - which can be hated against) thus allowing us to play slower and get to t5-t8. Collective Blessing is a threat that can win games the turn it is played. Suddenly, you are swinging with crazy buff creatures as fast as t5 (typically) that weren't a threat. I would highly suggest people to try this card before writing it off. I wrote it off when I first tried it, and most of the games I play it - I win.
Angel of Jubilation is a card I've thought about a few times and I feel like she's a good card to include, however, my problem with her is her mana cost. Simply put - she is an extremely restrictive card and without mana dorks I feel cannot be played. As good as Mana Fixing is in Ravnica, WWW1 is still hard. Phantom General on the other hand is a much easier card to cast with (almost) the same results.
I tested out Champion of Llamholt and I liked her, however, I found that she was either bounced (by bant, UW control) or simply killed the turn she is played (Pillar, Tragic Slip). I feel she is a sideboard card and not mainboard against decks that have low amounts of removal (such as our deck - I feel that she is fantastic in the mirror).
I do agree that the 8 dorks may be too many, I am contemplating running 4 Pilgrims and 4 Rancors (in Arbor's place) or even Tragic Slip. Top-decking a dork late game is sad, whereas top-decking a rancor or a removal is never a bad thing. Also, with 2 generators at the 2drop spot (whereas we only had good 3 drop generators) ramping into 2 isn't as huge of a deal. This may mean that I drop one Collective Blessing for a single Entreat the Angels as ramping into it is harder and with less effect now. However, I would urge you to test out collective blessing.
Edit: I realize I haven't updated my lists in a while because I've been going through so many changes. I'll post some lists in a few minutes.
List 1: This list has reduced the amount of Dorks by 2, added in Sorin (whom I'm liking more and more with my added black mana) and added in Deathrite Shaman for Reach.
Results: Haven't tested the Entreat yet. However, the Arbor elves still bother me and Deathrite Shaman is only a good blocker on t1. I also miss Rancor and Removal (ORings are useless).
Results: I miss Rancor and Removal in this deck. Dorks bother me but I love Collective Blessings consistency (as they make dorks fantastic). I'm not sure on Garruk or Sorin in this deck yet. Garruk is more removal (essentially an expensive lightning bolt sometimes - but he deals with Sublime Angel and Deathhawk easily) and can ultimate to help trample over stuff (assuming I sacrifice Dorks for more Dorks). Sorin is good and with Collective blessing his vampires become stupid strong. But, I do really miss removal in this deck. Overall, i've found this to be the most consistent - but I'll be trying list 2 out tonight.
Thoughts?
Also, I'm not sure why my formatting isn't working... Edit: I give up on reformating list 2 and 3... It's not working.
I like the idea of Skirsdag, I'm just afraid that without a reliable way to get the Morbid trigger it'll be a waste.
Yeah, it's really something I want to test.
There's Centaur's Herald to trigger morbid, but I think the card just has too poor value to justify it.
Im going to run the deck through some testing and if I find the Skirsdag is getting opportunities to tap out, but can't get off a morbid trigger I might try to find a way to get centaur's herald in.
Also thinking of just cutting the cultists (to the sideboard) and throwing another entreat in.
If there's a deck that can get max value from a hardcasted entreat the angels for 5 it's this one.
Yeah, it's really something I want to test.
There's Centaur's Herald to trigger morbid, but I think the card just has too poor value to justify it.
Im going to run the deck through some testing and if I find the Skirsdag is getting opportunities to tap out, but can't get off a morbid trigger I might try to find a way to get centaur's herald in.
Also thinking of just cutting the cultists (to the sideboard) and throwing another entreat in.
If there's a deck that can get max value from a hardcasted entreat the angels for 5 it's this one.
I'd test it, let us know how it goes. I find Centaur Herald just really clunky. 0/1 that does nothing and has a simple 'evolve' trigger... I guess how to put it. It's meh in my eyes. Maybe if it did something as it came into play. But, I guess an instant speed Watchwolf is worth the extra 1 colourless mana.
Here's what I'm looking at, at the moment. I'm still pondering the three Blessings... I might bring it down to 2, but I don't know how comfortable I am with Entreat the Angels.
Edit: Grove of the Guardian is still a quandary in process, but it + Vault of the Archangel have saved me once or twice now...
I know everyone really wants to try out the fancy new cards but building a Wx token deck that doesn't have 4x Midnight Hauntings makes my brain so confused. I don't know why you would ever cut that card.
I know everyone really wants to try out the fancy new cards but building a Wx token deck that doesn't have 4x Midnight Hauntings makes my brain so confused. I don't know why you would ever cut that card.
I agree. Any instant speed token generator is fantastic. Sorcery speed generators need to be really good in order to play around this downside. In my eyes at least.
In my particular instance, I'm more often using Seles Charm to generate a token if it's needed; otherwise I've technically replaced Midnight Haunting for Abrupt Decay which I personally find far more valuable. Additionally, that three open mana that I might be holding onto for Haunting I feel is better dangled for Charm / Rootborn Defense. I know it may seem more ideal to have more options, but I just find the removal far more worthwhile.
Edit: And, honestly, even when I played Tokens last standard, Midnight Haunting was always pretty lackluster unless I could call it back with Snapcaster Mage for emergencies. It was a card to immediately recover from a wipe, or to produce blockers. Now that we have Rootborn Defense to literally protect against wipes, and other cheap and effective token producers, I feel that all value of Haunting has nearly depleted.
In my particular instance, I'm more often using Seles Charm to generate a token if it's needed; otherwise I've technically replaced Midnight Haunting for Abrupt Decay which I personally find far more valuable. Additionally, that three open mana that I might be holding onto for Haunting I feel is better dangled for Charm / Rootborn Defense. I know it may seem more ideal to have more options, but I just find the removal far more worthwhile.
Edit: And, honestly, even when I played Tokens last standard, Midnight Haunting was always pretty lackluster unless I could call it back with Snapcaster Mage for emergencies. It was a card to immediately recover from a wipe, or to produce blockers. Now that we have Rootborn Defense to literally protect against wipes, and other cheap and effective token producers, I feel that all value of Haunting has nearly depleted.
I find that without Midnight Haunting I can run into periods that I don't draw token generators. How have you been finding that? I guess with the fact that you've shaved down your dorks to 6 you were able to fit Trostani in. How's she working for you? I'm contemplating Trostani or Vitu-Ghaz sometimes. I'd suggest going 4 Pilgrims 2 Arbor elfs. Pilgrim is just a much better card, while it is true that Arbor elf has the chance of being able to produce G, W or B mana I find that it can be such a dead card if you don't have a good 'Forest' land to use it on. (Let's say you have a Forest t1 followed by a Sunpetal Grove and then a Gavony Township - while not ideal it happens)
Edit: On Abrupt Decay. I'm trying to think of the cards that we'd really use it on that gives us trouble. So far I've been able to think of Deathhawk, Blood Artist and Ajani. For enchantment/artifact removal we have Sundering Growth and for 1 toughness creatures we have the Golgari charm. Maybe I'm devaluing it though. I just don't see us being threatened by 3CMC or lower cards. (Even Geralf we don't really want to hit with it). Maybe Dreg Mauler.
I find that without Midnight Haunting I can run into periods that I don't draw token generators. How have you been finding that? I guess with the fact that you've shaved down your dorks to 6 you were able to fit Trostani in. How's she working for you? I'm contemplating Trostani or Vitu-Ghaz sometimes. I'd suggest going 4 Pilgrims 2 Arbor elfs. Pilgrim is just a much better card, while it is true that Arbor elf has the chance of being able to produce G, W or B mana I find that it can be such a dead card if you don't have a good 'Forest' land to use it on. (Let's say you have a Forest t1 followed by a Sunpetal Grove and then a Gavony Township - while not ideal it happens)
Edit: On Abrupt Decay. I'm trying to think of the cards that we'd really use it on that gives us trouble. So far I've been able to think of Deathhawk, Blood Artist and Ajani. For enchantment/artifact removal we have Sundering Growth and for 1 toughness creatures we have the Golgari charm. Maybe I'm devaluing it though. I just don't see us being threatened by 3CMC or lower cards. (Even Geralf we don't really want to hit with it). Maybe Dreg Mauler.
I'm glad you threw in the one-of Entreat, I was going to suggest that to you, it's not a card you always want but it can be extremely devastating even if you draw it and pop it off for only one. It gives you a good populate target and with intangible it's a buffed Serra Angel.
You can always board out Abrupt Decay in matches where you don't need it, it will be good in the mirror match vs Intangible virtue, or ANY token. It's good on Ajani, it's good on Nighthawk, it's good on Blood Artist too, opposing Champion of Lambholdt. Wx humans will probably be around in some form - so you've got Silverblade Paladin, Champion of the Parish in there. It definitely has a lot of value, although I found myself desperately wishing it hit Collective Blessing Although that's a different discussion.
"He plays in a walk in humidor so keep his foils from bending. He once kept an all land hand just to know what it felt like to be mana flooded. He uses power nine for ante. He is the most interesting magic playing in the world." Old man, "I don't always tap basic lands for mana, but when i do, I tap Gurus."
I'd test it, let us know how it goes. I find Centaur Herald just really clunky. 0/1 that does nothing and has a simple 'evolve' trigger... I guess how to put it. It's meh in my eyes. Maybe if it did something as it came into play. But, I guess an instant speed Watchwolf is worth the extra 1 colourless mana.
What about using something like bone splinters for removal, or altar's reap for card draw to try and control the morbid triggers?
Would ajani, caller of the pride be good in this kind of deck? He buffs little guys and if you can protect him up to ultimate that is alot of 3/3 vigilance guys off virtue.
What about using something like bone splinters for removal, or altar's reap for card draw to try and control the morbid triggers?
I'm not a fan of either of these cards in this deck. I guess you could argue that destroying/saccing a populated token is like a net neutral advantage, but still we are losing board position. I love Reap when used with Gravecrawler and Skirsdag for recursion - but I don't think we can do the same thing.
And, I'm not a big fan of Ajani in this deck, while it is true that he produces tokens as an ultimate his +1 is moderatly effective for us (township is better) and his - is only decent, it's much better on let's say a 6/4 Loxodon Smiter with Rancor.
@Corazu - Yeah, I'm willing to test it. It took a spot of a Collective Blessing, but I guess that's the only thing that makes sense. I just miss the Rancors.
What about using something like bone splinters for removal, or altar's reap for card draw to try and control the morbid triggers?
Those were ideas back in BW Tokens, but even then, they were sub-par if not completely shunned ideas. I can't honestly see their worth being increased to the point of playability with SoM's rotation. I suppose it's worth a bit of testing, but it'll likely be Bone Splinters you'd want to try in place of Abrupt Decay.
Would ajani, caller of the pride be good in this kind of deck? He buffs little guys and if you can protect him up to ultimate that is alot of 3/3 vigilance guys off virtue.
Ajani's ultimate generates tokens, which, while is our main ideal, is not something we want to steam rail into as a strived "finisher." Even if you produce 20 of these cats, they still come out with summoning sickness, and are typically only 3/3s with Vig. Now, that does sound great and all, but if you managed to protect Ajani to the point where he can use his ultimate, then what were your creatures doing during that time? Were they just sitting there, defending, or were you able to swing with them as well, thanks to Vigilance?
Ugh. I'm gonna get off track if I keep spitting out spurred thoughts... What I'm trying to say is... An ultimate on a Planeswalker should be something that has immediate and tremendous impact on the state of the game. That Ajani is simply a furthering of our deck's strategy stands to stale his position. Aside this, Ajani's general and more easily accessed abilities are better suited for increasing the worth of creatures that have abilities besides Vigilance ( or that don't literally die to bouncing ). And aside any of that, he's another contender for that clogged 3cmc slot.
Ahem. So, yeah... I feel that the only Planeswalker whose every ability assists this deck is Sorin, Lord of Innistrad. His +1 produces a token with a very worthwhile ability; Lifelink. His -2 grants us an inextinguishable boost of power. His ultimate, unlike Ajani's, presents immediate alteration of the field.
I find that without Midnight Haunting I can run into periods that I don't draw token generators. How have you been finding that? I guess with the fact that you've shaved down your dorks to 6 you were able to fit Trostani in. How's she working for you? I'm contemplating Trostani or Vitu-Ghaz sometimes. I'd suggest going 4 Pilgrims 2 Arbor elfs. Pilgrim is just a much better card, while it is true that Arbor elf has the chance of being able to produce G, W or B mana I find that it can be such a dead card if you don't have a good 'Forest' land to use it on. (Let's say you have a Forest t1 followed by a Sunpetal Grove and then a Gavony Township - while not ideal it happens)
Edit: On Abrupt Decay. I'm trying to think of the cards that we'd really use it on that gives us trouble. So far I've been able to think of Deathhawk, Blood Artist and Ajani. For enchantment/artifact removal we have Sundering Growth and for 1 toughness creatures we have the Golgari charm. Maybe I'm devaluing it though. I just don't see us being threatened by 3CMC or lower cards. (Even Geralf we don't really want to hit with it). Maybe Dreg Mauler.
I'll be back in about an hour or two, and I'll try to give a bit more insight on what you've asked.
If this deck ever appear in standart, you should prepare anally for the 4x sb golgari charm
That's only going to hurt if we had 1/1 tokens out. Most of the newer token producers in Junk produce 2/2s or 3/3s, some even do 5/5s. On top of that you add Collective Blessing & other +/+ cards and a -1/-1 isn't going to hurt. We've got more to fear from Detention Sphere or other wipers.
Probably not. Armada Wurm requires a different type of token deck, one focused on a longer game and more on Populate triggers. Traditionally BW and Junk Tokens are much more aggressive, focusing on spamming a large quantity of smaller tokens instead of fatter, higher costed ones.
I have a few comments but overall it's pretty similar to a lot of people's. It seems to me we have a good base to work with now. First comment is that your curve might simply be too high without enough ramp. Running 3 blessing and 2 wurms is pretty high - I'm not sure I agree on the wurm. While it is a fantastic card, it seems to me that it would e better in a traditional G/W (bant or junk) list. We don't have the ramp to hit it consistently and the token is far more important to us than the actual wurm. It should be the other way around, this card is bonkers with resto angel - and that's where it should stay in my eyes. Which brings me to resto angel. In a token deck it is not a good card. What are you going to flicker? Trostani, a token, an elf? All of
These are bad choices... I don't feel that it has enough synergy to best out other cards (haunting or removal). I miss Rancor myself, I feel there has to be a way to get it in. At least 2, pref 3. Thraggy is a sb card at best to deal with zombies. The question then becomes is it too slow? And, is Trostani better st that them Thraggy? Wed need to test that. Also, as an off note - I think you need a few more black sources, even for just LS. Tombs/Cemetary/Chapels are all perfect cards with shocks.
@ Maraga I am really considering Abrupt Decay. Im curious as to your answer.
4x Arbor Elf
4x Avacyn's Pilgrm
2x Skirsdag High Priest
3x Thragtusk
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
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And what is this supposed to be other than a random (albeit potentially synergetic - you're missing a sac outlet) pile of cards?
Corazu: I think he's attempting to suggest a creature base... maybe.
Sorry, never used the deck feature before. Was planning to type out the whole list after I tested to see if it worked. Got almost finished then had to leave house in emergency.
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
3 Golgari Charm
3 Selesnya Charm
4 Call of the Conclave
3 Wayfairing Temple
4 Midnight Haunting
4 Lingering Souls
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
2 Collective Blessing
4 Intangible Virtue
8 Elves in a deck which such a low curve seems really silly and the Signet was good enough so I plan to use that instead. It dodges all the wraths as well. I like the Golgari Charm more than any other option, because it can do so many different things, nuke the mirror, kill the curse or an o-ring, save from the new wrath, too good to pass up. I also think Wayfairing Temple is a bro, I don't see any of you guys enjoying it but it can get pretty bonkers. Cut the 3rd Blessing and the Golgari walker for 2 Sorin and he is a great anthem.
RRRR mono red aggro
GWGW selesnya aggro
4x Avacyn's Pilgrm
3x Arbor Elf
2x Skirsdag High Priest
3x Thragtusk
2x Selesnya Charm
3x Rootborn Defenses
Sorceries (9)
4x Call of the conclave
4x Lingering Souls
1x Entreat the Angels
3x Garruk Relentless
Enchantments (7)
4x Intangible Virtue
2x Growing Ranks
1x Collective Blessing
I think "going bigger" is the best way to build this deck. You can get some very powerful late game interactions, attack from a few different angles and it's just NOT as fast or effective at killing quick as the good black based agro decks.
Thragtusk isn't the most synergistic card , but is essential for dealing with agro decks.
Tokens has a good late game but it can easily die in the process. I suspect it won't be able to tread water against these VERY effective agro decks that will be everywhere. Thragtusk is essential.
6 mana for blessings of the conclave is quite the stretch. Am very torn between that , Cathar's crusade, another bomb or a midnight haunting. Need testing.
One activation of Skirsdag highpriest can be INSANE in this deck. With various populate mechanics, it should only take one activation to take over the game. The deck should have a large number of creature on the battlefield, so it should be very difficult for your opponent to prevent something from dying. Needs testing.
Excess mana dorks/Land are actually very useful in this deck because of vault of the archangel and Gavony township activations.
Growing ranks is the card advantage engine of the deck and allows you to build your swarm with out over commiting your cards. Without Entreat or Skirsdag High priest, probably would cut it.
Hardcasting Entreat for 1 can be enough to take over the game with the good populate spells.
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
4 Doomed Traveler
Two drops (12)
4 Selesnya Charm
4 Call of the Conclave
4 Intangible Virtue
Three drops (12)
4 Midnight Haunting
4 Oblivion Ring
4 Champion of Lambholt
4 Angel of Jubilation
2 Garruk Relentless
2 Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
X drops (1)
1 Entreat the Angels
Landbase (23)
3 Gavony Township
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Temple Garden
8 Plains
4 Forest
This is my attempt at token deck. I kept it in two colors, but it might be worth it to replace 4 Champion of Lambholt with 4 Lingering Souls and exchange some basic lands for Overgrown Tombs and Isolated Chapels. I'm fairly new to the game, so I'd like to ask more experienced players for advice: Is it worth it to tinker with manabase just for Souls' flashback, especially while playing cards as hard to cast as Champion of Lambholt, Angel of Jubilation and Trostani? Is it possible to make a sufficiently reliable manabase? Or is there possibly another three drop in GW worth attention? I balk at the thought of using Wayfaring Temple as I tried a similar card - Geist-honored Monk. It was horrible most of the time and quickly died after any combat unless I had already been dominating over my opponent.
I support the idea of keeping a single miracle. Drawing it early puts you only at a minor disadvantage (it's a perfect target to populate after hardcasting), while casting it for miracle cost usually wins you the game. Game's bound to slow down a bit, so miracles are going to become even better than now.
I believe Angel of Jubilation is an obligatory 4-of in this deck in the wake of rotation. Tokens desperately needs replacement for Honor of the Pure (remember that the whole point of this deck is to reap insane benefits from anthems by playing lots of little guys) and we must either go esper spirit tokens path and meet this need with Favourable Winds and Drogskol Captains or stick with Selesnya and choose the Angel. It has a decent 3/3 flying body and can be a threat in itself, it buffs all kinds of tokens Selesnya cards produce, including green Centaurs and Saprolings and blocks any sacrifice plays from Zombie and Golgari decks. (Like the ability of Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord) Sadly, it can be killed mid-combat or even stolen by Zealous Conscripts with terrible results. I doubt that Collective Blessing could be used instead, it can be hardly cast fast enough without mana dorks and including them in the deck doesn't seem like a good idea. The deck already has a considerable number of non-threat cards, anthems, diluting it even further will lead to many game losses caused by drawing into solely support cards - like anthem floods those who played BW Tokens in Innistrad might have experienced, but even more hopeless. If anything I'd try running 4 Virtue/4-8 Dorks and then only actual threats.
I had a hard time deciding on whether to run Gather the Townsfolk or Call of the Conclave as a 2-drop. I decided to exclude Gather, as with lack of Honor I fear they'd end up being useless 1/1s too often. With this change it also became pointless to keep Champion of the Parish. The deck loses many of it's explosive plays this way. After I get to play with it (or after reading other people's opinions) I might revert it. I also consider replacing some Oblivion Rings with Rootborn Defenses, if sweepers become too troublesome or Rings are rendered useless by Abrubt Decay, Doomed Travelers with Dryad Militants if graveyard decks become a thing and running more Trostani over Garruks, depending on how they fare. There's also Thragtusk if Trostani's lifegain turns out to be too slow. Increasing Devotion loses too much of it's power without Honor, doesn't it? Huh, so many things to test in play.
I like the idea of Skirsdag, I'm just afraid that without a reliable way to get the Morbid trigger it'll be a waste.
Splashing black for Lingering Souls is usually worth it, mainly because it opens up avenues of cards that we wouldn't normally have access to usually sideboard cards. For me, it opens up Deathrite Shaman, Sorin, Lord of Innistrad, Vile Rebirth, Lingering Souls, Vault of the Archangel, Golgari Charm (maybe), Tragic Slip, and Blood Arist. After fiddling around with the G/W list I found that it is not as strong without adding black for this versatility. To be honest, I find that with 4 Tombs and a few Isolated Chapels/Woodlands (not sure on the amount right now - I was doing 4/0 but I think I'm going to switch to 2/2) the black becomes a non-issue for the most part.
But I disagree with the idea that we must run little guys and power them up via anthems (such as Favourable Winds and Gather). I feel that the only reason that B/W lists did that was because their was a lack of 'good' tokens. We have those now. Call of the Conclave, Selesnya Charm, maybe the Wurm. Wizards is actively trying to slow down the game (and the only really fast deck is GB zombies - which can be hated against) thus allowing us to play slower and get to t5-t8. Collective Blessing is a threat that can win games the turn it is played. Suddenly, you are swinging with crazy buff creatures as fast as t5 (typically) that weren't a threat. I would highly suggest people to try this card before writing it off. I wrote it off when I first tried it, and most of the games I play it - I win.
Angel of Jubilation is a card I've thought about a few times and I feel like she's a good card to include, however, my problem with her is her mana cost. Simply put - she is an extremely restrictive card and without mana dorks I feel cannot be played. As good as Mana Fixing is in Ravnica, WWW1 is still hard. Phantom General on the other hand is a much easier card to cast with (almost) the same results.
I tested out Champion of Llamholt and I liked her, however, I found that she was either bounced (by bant, UW control) or simply killed the turn she is played (Pillar, Tragic Slip). I feel she is a sideboard card and not mainboard against decks that have low amounts of removal (such as our deck - I feel that she is fantastic in the mirror).
I do agree that the 8 dorks may be too many, I am contemplating running 4 Pilgrims and 4 Rancors (in Arbor's place) or even Tragic Slip. Top-decking a dork late game is sad, whereas top-decking a rancor or a removal is never a bad thing. Also, with 2 generators at the 2drop spot (whereas we only had good 3 drop generators) ramping into 2 isn't as huge of a deal. This may mean that I drop one Collective Blessing for a single Entreat the Angels as ramping into it is harder and with less effect now. However, I would urge you to test out collective blessing.
Edit: I realize I haven't updated my lists in a while because I've been going through so many changes. I'll post some lists in a few minutes.
List 1: This list has reduced the amount of Dorks by 2, added in Sorin (whom I'm liking more and more with my added black mana) and added in Deathrite Shaman for Reach.
2x Arbor Elf
4x Avacyn's Pilgrim
2x Deathrite Shaman
Instant (11)
4x Midnight Haunting
3x Rootborn Defenses
4x Selesnya Charm
Sorcery (9)
4x Call of the Conclave
1x Entreat the Angels
4x Lingering Souls
2x Collective Blessing
4x Intangible Virtue
Planeswalker (2)
2x Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
Land (24)
2x Forest
2x Gavony Township
2x Isolated Chapel
4x Overgrown Tomb
2x Plains
4x Sunpetal Grove
1x Swamp
4x Temple Garden
1x Vault of the Archangel
2x Woodland Cemetery
Results: Haven't tested the Entreat yet. However, the Arbor elves still bother me and Deathrite Shaman is only a good blocker on t1. I also miss Rancor and Removal (ORings are useless).
List 2:
4x Doomed Traveler
3x Phantom General
Instant (11)
4x Midnight Haunting
3x Rootborn Defenses
4x Selesnya Charm
Sorcery (8)
4x Call of the Conclave
4x Lingering Souls
4x Rancor
4x Intangible Virtue
Planeswalker (2)
2x Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
Land (24)
2x Forest
2x Gavony Township
2x Isolated Chapel
4x Overgrown Tomb
2x Plains
4x Sunpetal Grove
1x Swamp
4x Temple Garden
1x Vault of the Archangel
2x Woodland Cemetery
I'll be testing this tonight.
List 3: My standard list
4x Arbor Elf
4x Avacyn's Pilgrim
Instant (11)
4x Midnight Haunting
3x Rootborn Defences
4x Selesnya Charm
Sorcery (8)
4x Call of the Conclave
4x Lingering Souls
3x Collective Blessing
4x Intangible Virtue
Planeswalker (2)
2x Garruk Relentless / Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
Land (24)
2x Forest
2x Gavony Township
2x Isolated Chapel
4x Overgrown Tomb
2x Plains
4x Sunpetal Grove
1x Swamp
4x Temple Garden
1x Vault of the Archangel
2x Woodland Cemetery
Results: I miss Rancor and Removal in this deck. Dorks bother me but I love Collective Blessings consistency (as they make dorks fantastic). I'm not sure on Garruk or Sorin in this deck yet. Garruk is more removal (essentially an expensive lightning bolt sometimes - but he deals with Sublime Angel and Deathhawk easily) and can ultimate to help trample over stuff (assuming I sacrifice Dorks for more Dorks). Sorin is good and with Collective blessing his vampires become stupid strong. But, I do really miss removal in this deck. Overall, i've found this to be the most consistent - but I'll be trying list 2 out tonight.
Thoughts?
Also, I'm not sure why my formatting isn't working... Edit: I give up on reformating list 2 and 3... It's not working.
Modern:
Abzan Company
Abzan Midrange
GB Collected Elves
Legacy:
Junkblade
EDH:
Erebos, God of Black
You won't like Omnath when he's angry...
CEDH:
Meren, Clan of Vzlue
Yeah, it's really something I want to test.
There's Centaur's Herald to trigger morbid, but I think the card just has too poor value to justify it.
Im going to run the deck through some testing and if I find the Skirsdag is getting opportunities to tap out, but can't get off a morbid trigger I might try to find a way to get centaur's herald in.
Also thinking of just cutting the cultists (to the sideboard) and throwing another entreat in.
If there's a deck that can get max value from a hardcasted entreat the angels for 5 it's this one.
Last Updated 02/07/24
Streaming Standard/Cube on Twitch https://www.twitch.tv/heisenb3rg96
Strategy Twitter https://www.twitter.com/heisenb3rg
I'd test it, let us know how it goes. I find Centaur Herald just really clunky. 0/1 that does nothing and has a simple 'evolve' trigger... I guess how to put it. It's meh in my eyes. Maybe if it did something as it came into play. But, I guess an instant speed Watchwolf is worth the extra 1 colourless mana.
Modern:
Abzan Company
Abzan Midrange
GB Collected Elves
Legacy:
Junkblade
EDH:
Erebos, God of Black
You won't like Omnath when he's angry...
CEDH:
Meren, Clan of Vzlue
2 Forest
1 Gavony Township
1 Grove of the Guardian
2 Isolated Chapel
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
4 Sunpetal Grove
2 Swamp
4 Temple Garden
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Woodland Cemetery
3 Arbor Elf
3 Avacyn's Pilgrim
2 Trostani, Selesyna's Voice
Instant: 10
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Rootborn Defense
4 Selesnya Charm
Sorcery: 8
4 Call of the Conclave
4 Lingering Souls
3 Collective Blessing
4 Intangible Virtue
Planeswalker: 3
3 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
Here's what I'm looking at, at the moment. I'm still pondering the three Blessings... I might bring it down to 2, but I don't know how comfortable I am with Entreat the Angels.
Edit: Grove of the Guardian is still a quandary in process, but it + Vault of the Archangel have saved me once or twice now...
I agree. Any instant speed token generator is fantastic. Sorcery speed generators need to be really good in order to play around this downside. In my eyes at least.
Modern:
Abzan Company
Abzan Midrange
GB Collected Elves
Legacy:
Junkblade
EDH:
Erebos, God of Black
You won't like Omnath when he's angry...
CEDH:
Meren, Clan of Vzlue
Edit: And, honestly, even when I played Tokens last standard, Midnight Haunting was always pretty lackluster unless I could call it back with Snapcaster Mage for emergencies. It was a card to immediately recover from a wipe, or to produce blockers. Now that we have Rootborn Defense to literally protect against wipes, and other cheap and effective token producers, I feel that all value of Haunting has nearly depleted.
I find that without Midnight Haunting I can run into periods that I don't draw token generators. How have you been finding that? I guess with the fact that you've shaved down your dorks to 6 you were able to fit Trostani in. How's she working for you? I'm contemplating Trostani or Vitu-Ghaz sometimes. I'd suggest going 4 Pilgrims 2 Arbor elfs. Pilgrim is just a much better card, while it is true that Arbor elf has the chance of being able to produce G, W or B mana I find that it can be such a dead card if you don't have a good 'Forest' land to use it on. (Let's say you have a Forest t1 followed by a Sunpetal Grove and then a Gavony Township - while not ideal it happens)
Edit: On Abrupt Decay. I'm trying to think of the cards that we'd really use it on that gives us trouble. So far I've been able to think of Deathhawk, Blood Artist and Ajani. For enchantment/artifact removal we have Sundering Growth and for 1 toughness creatures we have the Golgari charm. Maybe I'm devaluing it though. I just don't see us being threatened by 3CMC or lower cards. (Even Geralf we don't really want to hit with it). Maybe Dreg Mauler.
Modern:
Abzan Company
Abzan Midrange
GB Collected Elves
Legacy:
Junkblade
EDH:
Erebos, God of Black
You won't like Omnath when he's angry...
CEDH:
Meren, Clan of Vzlue
I'm glad you threw in the one-of Entreat, I was going to suggest that to you, it's not a card you always want but it can be extremely devastating even if you draw it and pop it off for only one. It gives you a good populate target and with intangible it's a buffed Serra Angel.
You can always board out Abrupt Decay in matches where you don't need it, it will be good in the mirror match vs Intangible virtue, or ANY token. It's good on Ajani, it's good on Nighthawk, it's good on Blood Artist too, opposing Champion of Lambholdt. Wx humans will probably be around in some form - so you've got Silverblade Paladin, Champion of the Parish in there. It definitely has a lot of value, although I found myself desperately wishing it hit Collective Blessing Although that's a different discussion.
What about using something like bone splinters for removal, or altar's reap for card draw to try and control the morbid triggers?
I'm not a fan of either of these cards in this deck. I guess you could argue that destroying/saccing a populated token is like a net neutral advantage, but still we are losing board position. I love Reap when used with Gravecrawler and Skirsdag for recursion - but I don't think we can do the same thing.
And, I'm not a big fan of Ajani in this deck, while it is true that he produces tokens as an ultimate his +1 is moderatly effective for us (township is better) and his - is only decent, it's much better on let's say a 6/4 Loxodon Smiter with Rancor.
@Corazu - Yeah, I'm willing to test it. It took a spot of a Collective Blessing, but I guess that's the only thing that makes sense. I just miss the Rancors.
Modern:
Abzan Company
Abzan Midrange
GB Collected Elves
Legacy:
Junkblade
EDH:
Erebos, God of Black
You won't like Omnath when he's angry...
CEDH:
Meren, Clan of Vzlue
Those were ideas back in BW Tokens, but even then, they were sub-par if not completely shunned ideas. I can't honestly see their worth being increased to the point of playability with SoM's rotation. I suppose it's worth a bit of testing, but it'll likely be Bone Splinters you'd want to try in place of Abrupt Decay.
Ajani's ultimate generates tokens, which, while is our main ideal, is not something we want to steam rail into as a strived "finisher." Even if you produce 20 of these cats, they still come out with summoning sickness, and are typically only 3/3s with Vig. Now, that does sound great and all, but if you managed to protect Ajani to the point where he can use his ultimate, then what were your creatures doing during that time? Were they just sitting there, defending, or were you able to swing with them as well, thanks to Vigilance?
Ugh. I'm gonna get off track if I keep spitting out spurred thoughts... What I'm trying to say is... An ultimate on a Planeswalker should be something that has immediate and tremendous impact on the state of the game. That Ajani is simply a furthering of our deck's strategy stands to stale his position. Aside this, Ajani's general and more easily accessed abilities are better suited for increasing the worth of creatures that have abilities besides Vigilance ( or that don't literally die to bouncing ). And aside any of that, he's another contender for that clogged 3cmc slot.
Ahem. So, yeah... I feel that the only Planeswalker whose every ability assists this deck is Sorin, Lord of Innistrad. His +1 produces a token with a very worthwhile ability; Lifelink. His -2 grants us an inextinguishable boost of power. His ultimate, unlike Ajani's, presents immediate alteration of the field.
Sideboarded Golgari Charms? I'm trying to prepare my anus for the mainboarded Mutilates.
I'll be back in about an hour or two, and I'll try to give a bit more insight on what you've asked.
That's only going to hurt if we had 1/1 tokens out. Most of the newer token producers in Junk produce 2/2s or 3/3s, some even do 5/5s. On top of that you add Collective Blessing & other +/+ cards and a -1/-1 isn't going to hurt. We've got more to fear from Detention Sphere or other wipers.
Probably not. Armada Wurm requires a different type of token deck, one focused on a longer game and more on Populate triggers. Traditionally BW and Junk Tokens are much more aggressive, focusing on spamming a large quantity of smaller tokens instead of fatter, higher costed ones.
Check out my blog, Swing For Game!
6x Forest
2x Gavony Township
2x Overgrown Tomb
5x Plains
4x Sunpetal Grove
4x Temple Garden
2x Woodland Cemetery
Instant
4x Midnight Haunting
4x Selesnya Charm
4x Arbor Elf
3x Armada Wurm
3x Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
Sorcery
4x Call of the Conclave
4x Lingering Souls
Enchantment
3x Collective Blessing
4x Intangible Virtue
Planeswalker
2x Garruk Relentless
3x Oblivion Ring
2x Tormod's Crypt
3x Nevermore
2x Vile Rebirth
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Loxodon Smiter
Trying to fit Thragtusk, Rancor, maybe Restoration Angel in this deck but I just can't figure out what to remove.
I have a few comments but overall it's pretty similar to a lot of people's. It seems to me we have a good base to work with now. First comment is that your curve might simply be too high without enough ramp. Running 3 blessing and 2 wurms is pretty high - I'm not sure I agree on the wurm. While it is a fantastic card, it seems to me that it would e better in a traditional G/W (bant or junk) list. We don't have the ramp to hit it consistently and the token is far more important to us than the actual wurm. It should be the other way around, this card is bonkers with resto angel - and that's where it should stay in my eyes. Which brings me to resto angel. In a token deck it is not a good card. What are you going to flicker? Trostani, a token, an elf? All of
These are bad choices... I don't feel that it has enough synergy to best out other cards (haunting or removal). I miss Rancor myself, I feel there has to be a way to get it in. At least 2, pref 3. Thraggy is a sb card at best to deal with zombies. The question then becomes is it too slow? And, is Trostani better st that them Thraggy? Wed need to test that. Also, as an off note - I think you need a few more black sources, even for just LS. Tombs/Cemetary/Chapels are all perfect cards with shocks.
@ Maraga I am really considering Abrupt Decay. Im curious as to your answer.
Modern:
Abzan Company
Abzan Midrange
GB Collected Elves
Legacy:
Junkblade
EDH:
Erebos, God of Black
You won't like Omnath when he's angry...
CEDH:
Meren, Clan of Vzlue