Hey y'all. I've been trying to find a way abuse Guttersnipe ever since if first got spoiled. I think there's a solid burn/cantrip deck out there that can be based on combo-ing guttersnipe and goblin electromaner for some super cheap spells with flashback and direct damage. This is what I have slapped together
Ideally the deck plays like this:
T1 - Resolve Delver of maybe a pillar
T2 - Electromancer
T3 - Guttersnipe
T4 - Start to "go off", with think twice now super cheap on both ends, faithless looting flashing for cheap, and Searing spear now 5 damage for R. The damage can rack up really quick, especially if the Delver has been swinging the first couple of turns.
There are a couple of spells in there that are still question marks Mizzium skin is a great way to protect my creatures from removal, which will definitely be needed. Snipe has a huge target on his back. Plus, that 1cc is really pretty.
I'm still on the fence about Desperate Ravings and Rewind, although with the number of instants in the deck, I think rewind will be incredibly useful.
Any thoughts on this deck? When things stack up right it can be super powerful, and I there is such a nice toolkit of removal here that I think it can be competitive.
Seems better with a U/R Storm build with Krenko's Command, Battle Hymn, Infernal Plunge and Epic Experiment. I've made a list, but it's heinously inconsistent.
I think Guttersnipe would just be much better in a regular Mono-Red deck.
A couple of reasons. Given how many cards in my grave already have flashback, I don't see the need for it. Also, I don't want to bog the deck down with too many creatures.
^this, I highly suggest getting two more lands in there as 20 is going to make you mulligan a lot. Snapples is awesome in any deck with a lot of instants and sorceries. He can reduce the cost on your flashback, be a flash blocker, be an attacker, and just synergizes really well.
I feel like it needs a bit more burn -- leaning towards replacing Redirect with Thunderous Wrath and removing Rewind entirely for a couple more draw spells (Inspiration or Thoughtflare). It's sort of budget as well, otherwise I would probably replace Electromancers with Snapcasters.
I think guttersnipe would be best utilized in a deck chalk full of CA from draw spells and burn. Needs to be able to survive without him tho. One huge card I'm seeing a serious lack of in these lists is Bonfire of the Damned I would probably keep the curve low, like topping at 3 with guttersnipe. Casting lots of draw spells and burn.
I think Delver's days are over. Even in an instant-heavy deck like yours he flips less than half the time.
Is rewind actually better than Cancel? I'm uncertain. After all, with Goblin in play it becomes Counterspell.
where are your Izzet Charms??
As others have said, I think this deck lacks win conditions. And really, if you're playing heavy control you might as well play something big instead of Guttersnipe.
As others have said, I think this deck lacks win conditions. And really, if you're playing heavy control you might as well play something big instead of Guttersnipe.
This is something I was trying to solve in my deck with Dual Casting and Blistercoil Weird. Dual Casting on its own I feel can really give this archetype the extra push, and sticking it on Blistercoil can just run away with the game given a decent board state. The obvious weakness is that it's just 1 card, and it's an Aura at that, so it's quite susceptible to removal. The Weird on its own isn't super great either, but it fills the creature curve at least and it isn't too unreasonable to get it 3/3 with Think Twice. Still, I don't think Izzet really got a good "single" win-condition card so I don't know what you'd use instead (probably just something like Hellkite I guess, and then you might as well be doing RDW).
Electromancer might not be needed, he costs you a card and all he's doing is reducing the costs of spells.
The deck I compare this to I think is RW Control back in the day that played Lightning Rift. Instead of cycling cards here you have cantrip spells and stuff with flashback. The problem is that Guttersnipe is a creature. Lightning Rift was good back in the day because it was hard to kill, and you could run stuff like Wrath of God along side it to keep aggro decks at bay. I almost think you have to add white to the deck and go control style with it like the old RW control decks did... perhaps playing stuff like Redirect against removal or flat out counterspells (and counterspells still trigger guttersnipe). Maybe something like Rewind works really well because it would allow you to chain spells after countering something.
So here's an idea for a core set of cards to mess with.
I took a lot of the burn out, but with potentially 8 sweepers (all Miracle based), I think you have a really good shot at keeping up with aggro. Maybe you take a counterspell out and replace it with something like Pillar of Flame to stop stuff like Zombies.
But I think with a deck like this you could afford to try for a turn 3 Guttersnipe... if they kill it. You have enough card draw in the deck to eventually draw the rest of them. But if you get it to stick past the first turn, then all you have to do is sit back and protect it with counters. And at the same time, you are drawing through your deck and triggering Miracle and potentially wiping the board and just stalling in general.
Because potentially 12 (including Izzet Charm) cards draw at instant speed. You can play the spells during your opponents turn. Play the first one and see if your first draw is a miracle... if it isn't, keep playing spells and hitting the opponent. You should be able to draw one card during your turn and during your opponents turn, so it makes the odds of hitting a miracle even greater.
And the cool thing about a deck like this is that you don't lose the game if they stop Guttersnipe. Ultimiting Tamiyo or Miracle-ing Bonfire or Entreat can get enough damage in to win the game.
That's why I like a deck like this that doesn't necessarily want to combo out with Guttersnipe immediately, but just is willing to play him and it's going to be extra damage as they dig through their deck and play miracles every now and then.
Since Snapcaster Mage is not receiving too much love for this deck, how about Nivmagus Elemental? With all the instant/sorcery in the deck, it wouldn't take long for him to get big enough to be virtually unstoppable.
just a random idea looking for opinions on this what about tibalt then he can draw some hate away from you and give you a quick way to get through cards
I think the only way the deck works is if you keep the mana curve low and play it like a pre-rotation Delver deck. If you're running big creatures like Niv-Mizzet and Hypersonic Dragon, you need more mana as a result. But that counteracts the decks original plan - tons of instant and sorceries with Guttersnipe that cost cheap because of Goblin Electromancer. You will end up getting more mana than you want many games, or be holding onto your big guy and failing to rip extra mana.
I would recommend running very few counterspells as I don't see very many good ones in standard at the moment. Syncopate is alright. Maybe a singleton Negate or that 1U m13 card that counters creature spells.
Whoever said mono-red Guttersnipe could be good might be on to something, I am going to try to brew a list...
Redirect might be better than counters because it can get around Abrupt Decay and can 2 for one them assuming they have valid targets on the other side. I think it can even steal a rancor for a little bit.
I like unsummon in there because it can protect Guttersnipe and deal 2 points, protect anything else you want, or bounce opposing whatevers and still get 2 points if you have a Guttersnipe out. Also gets rid of rancor.
How about Chandra, the Firebrand? Does copying count as casting? She'd be more resilient than if you happen to get a Dual Casting on a creature.
The reason I like Dual Casting more is because it comes out much earlier and can start copying spells on turn 3 instead of turn 5 like Chandra (assuming you have a 1 drop...). Also copying does not count as casting. I wouldn't be surprised if I ended up replacing Dual Casting with her though.
I think Nivmagus Elemental definitely has a role to play in this kind of deck. You can cast an instant or sorcery, triggering Talrand, Sky Summoner and/or Guttersnipe, then exile it to beef up the elemental.
Presumably with a deck like this we're wanting to get out Delver of Secrets or Nivmagus Elemental (depending on build; it would be undesirable to run both maindeck) on turn one, cast Augur of Bolas or leave up counterspell mana on turn two, then cast a cantrip (and exile it if we've got Nivmagus Elemental on the battlefield) if we don't need the counter, do the same on turn three, and then get out a Guttersnipe on turn four and blast with some one mana instant or sorcery (or the same with Talrand, a turn later).
Do Dual Casting and other copy effects copy overload spells properly? If it is, spells like Electrickery might be useful against certain decks. It already synergizes with Nivmagus Elemental (but not Guttersnipe or Talrand) and draw spells like Think Twice and Thought Scour, so a copy effect may be worth including, but Electrickery is still no Whipflare. I think this deck needs a cheaper sweeper than Mizzium Mortars to help it stabilize.
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4 Goblin Electromancer
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Faithless Looting
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Think Twice
3 Geistflame
4 Searing Spear
3 Mizzium Skin
3 Desperate Ravings
3 Rewind
4 Sulfur Falls
6 Island
6 Mountain
Ideally the deck plays like this:
T1 - Resolve Delver of maybe a pillar
T2 - Electromancer
T3 - Guttersnipe
T4 - Start to "go off", with think twice now super cheap on both ends, faithless looting flashing for cheap, and Searing spear now 5 damage for R. The damage can rack up really quick, especially if the Delver has been swinging the first couple of turns.
There are a couple of spells in there that are still question marks Mizzium skin is a great way to protect my creatures from removal, which will definitely be needed. Snipe has a huge target on his back. Plus, that 1cc is really pretty.
I'm still on the fence about Desperate Ravings and Rewind, although with the number of instants in the deck, I think rewind will be incredibly useful.
Any thoughts on this deck? When things stack up right it can be super powerful, and I there is such a nice toolkit of removal here that I think it can be competitive.
- H. L. Mencken
French Duel Commander
WBR Kaalia of the Vast WBR
RUG Maelstrom Wanderer RUG
too many graveyard hoser, i think??
but at least he deserve on Sideboard for deck like this
I think Guttersnipe would just be much better in a regular Mono-Red deck.
Modern:
:symu::symw::symr: UWr Geist :symr::symw::symu:
EDH:
:symb::symb::symr::symr: Rakdos, Lord of Riots :symr::symr::symb::symb:
A couple of reasons. Given how many cards in my grave already have flashback, I don't see the need for it. Also, I don't want to bog the deck down with too many creatures.
^this, I highly suggest getting two more lands in there as 20 is going to make you mulligan a lot. Snapples is awesome in any deck with a lot of instants and sorceries. He can reduce the cost on your flashback, be a flash blocker, be an attacker, and just synergizes really well.
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
4 x Goblin Electromancer
4 x Guttersnipe
3 x Blistercoil Weird
2 x Lunar Mystic
Enchantment:
3 x Dual Casting
Spells:
4 x Searing Spear
4 x Think Twice
3 x Brimstone Volley
2 x Rewind
2 x Redirect
2 x Flames of the Firebrand
2 x Mizzium Mortars
1 x Reverberate
4 x Steam Vents
4 x Sulfur Falls
8 x Island
8 x Mountain
3 x Negate
3 x Cyclonic Rift
3 x Essence Scatter
3 x Pillar of Flame
2 x Dissipate
1 x Flames of the Firebrand
I feel like it needs a bit more burn -- leaning towards replacing Redirect with Thunderous Wrath and removing Rewind entirely for a couple more draw spells (Inspiration or Thoughtflare). It's sort of budget as well, otherwise I would probably replace Electromancers with Snapcasters.
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
Is rewind actually better than Cancel? I'm uncertain. After all, with Goblin in play it becomes Counterspell.
where are your Izzet Charms??
As others have said, I think this deck lacks win conditions. And really, if you're playing heavy control you might as well play something big instead of Guttersnipe.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
4 Sulfur Falls
9 Island
3 Mountain
3 Desolate Lighthouse
4 Talrand, Sky Summoner
4 Goblin Electromancer
4 Guttersnipe
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Geistflame
4 Desperate Ravings
4 Mizzium Mortars
2 Faithless Looting
1 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Burning Vengeance
4 Smelt
1 Burning Vengeance
4 Negate
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Flames of the Firebrand
2 Pillar of Flame
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Goblin Electromancer
4x Guttersnipe
2x Hypersonic Dragon
Instant/Sorceries:
3x Izzet Charm
2x Mizzium Mortars
4x Think Twice
2x Inaction Injunction
3x Bonfire of the Damned
2x Brimstone Volley
4x Negate
4x Searing Spear
4x Steam Vents
4x Sulfur Falls
7x Mountain
7x Island
4x Pillar of Flame
3x Dissipate
2x Smelt
2x Inaction Injunction
2x Essence Backlash
2x Rewind
This is something I was trying to solve in my deck with Dual Casting and Blistercoil Weird. Dual Casting on its own I feel can really give this archetype the extra push, and sticking it on Blistercoil can just run away with the game given a decent board state. The obvious weakness is that it's just 1 card, and it's an Aura at that, so it's quite susceptible to removal. The Weird on its own isn't super great either, but it fills the creature curve at least and it isn't too unreasonable to get it 3/3 with Think Twice. Still, I don't think Izzet really got a good "single" win-condition card so I don't know what you'd use instead (probably just something like Hellkite I guess, and then you might as well be doing RDW).
The deck I compare this to I think is RW Control back in the day that played Lightning Rift. Instead of cycling cards here you have cantrip spells and stuff with flashback. The problem is that Guttersnipe is a creature. Lightning Rift was good back in the day because it was hard to kill, and you could run stuff like Wrath of God along side it to keep aggro decks at bay. I almost think you have to add white to the deck and go control style with it like the old RW control decks did... perhaps playing stuff like Redirect against removal or flat out counterspells (and counterspells still trigger guttersnipe). Maybe something like Rewind works really well because it would allow you to chain spells after countering something.
So here's an idea for a core set of cards to mess with.
Tamiyo
Bonfire of the Damned
Terminus
Temporal Mastery?
Entreat the Angels
Think Twice
Desperate Ravings
Rewind
Izzet Charm
Dissipate
I took a lot of the burn out, but with potentially 8 sweepers (all Miracle based), I think you have a really good shot at keeping up with aggro. Maybe you take a counterspell out and replace it with something like Pillar of Flame to stop stuff like Zombies.
But I think with a deck like this you could afford to try for a turn 3 Guttersnipe... if they kill it. You have enough card draw in the deck to eventually draw the rest of them. But if you get it to stick past the first turn, then all you have to do is sit back and protect it with counters. And at the same time, you are drawing through your deck and triggering Miracle and potentially wiping the board and just stalling in general.
Because potentially 12 (including Izzet Charm) cards draw at instant speed. You can play the spells during your opponents turn. Play the first one and see if your first draw is a miracle... if it isn't, keep playing spells and hitting the opponent. You should be able to draw one card during your turn and during your opponents turn, so it makes the odds of hitting a miracle even greater.
And the cool thing about a deck like this is that you don't lose the game if they stop Guttersnipe. Ultimiting Tamiyo or Miracle-ing Bonfire or Entreat can get enough damage in to win the game.
That's why I like a deck like this that doesn't necessarily want to combo out with Guttersnipe immediately, but just is willing to play him and it's going to be extra damage as they dig through their deck and play miracles every now and then.
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Guttersnipe
2 Talrand, Sky Summoner
4 Pillar of Flame
4 Thought Scour
4 Searing Spear
4 Izzet Charm
3 Runchanter's Pike
4 Sulfur Falls
7 Mountain
8 Island
RRRR mono red aggro
GWGW selesnya aggro
Honestly, I'm not sure why everyone's so worried about GY hate. Aside for maybe Ash Zealot, no other GY hosers seem like main-deck material.
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Guttersnipe
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Invisible Stalker
2 Talrand, Sky Summoner
4 Thought Scour
4 Think Twice
4 Izzet Charm
3 Pillar of Flame
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Faithless Looting
2 Runechanter's Pike
4 Sulfur Falls
4 Steam Vents
6 Island
6 Mountain
1 Desolate Lighthouse
x4 Gutterspine
x3 Snapcater
x2 Hypersonic Dragon
x1 Niv-Mezzet
Instant & Sorcery 22
x3 think twice
x3 despreat ravings
x3 Faithless looting
x3 Izzet Charm
x4 Pillar of flame
x3 Mizzum mortars
x3 Counterflux
Enchantment
x3 Burning Vengence
Land 23
x4 Steam Vents
x4 Sulfur Falls
x6 Islands
x6 Mountains
x3 Desolate Lighthouse
Sideboard
x4 Dissapate
x2 Talarnd, Sky Summoner
x1 Counterflux
x1 Niv-Mezzet
x4 Seering spear
x1 izzet charm
x3 Goblin electromancer
I think the only way the deck works is if you keep the mana curve low and play it like a pre-rotation Delver deck. If you're running big creatures like Niv-Mizzet and Hypersonic Dragon, you need more mana as a result. But that counteracts the decks original plan - tons of instant and sorceries with Guttersnipe that cost cheap because of Goblin Electromancer. You will end up getting more mana than you want many games, or be holding onto your big guy and failing to rip extra mana.
I would recommend running very few counterspells as I don't see very many good ones in standard at the moment. Syncopate is alright. Maybe a singleton Negate or that 1U m13 card that counters creature spells.
Whoever said mono-red Guttersnipe could be good might be on to something, I am going to try to brew a list...
If so, I agree with a more tempo-ish build:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Guttersnipe
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Talrand, Sky Summoner
Planeswalker Maybe? - 2
2 Chandra, the Firebrand
4 Unsummon
4 Redirect
4 Izzet Charm
3 Pillar of Flame
3 Bonfire of the Damned
4 Think Twice
4 Sulfur Falls
4 Steam Vents
6 Island
6 Mountain
2 Desolate Lighthouse
Redirect might be better than counters because it can get around Abrupt Decay and can 2 for one them assuming they have valid targets on the other side. I think it can even steal a rancor for a little bit.
I like unsummon in there because it can protect Guttersnipe and deal 2 points, protect anything else you want, or bounce opposing whatevers and still get 2 points if you have a Guttersnipe out. Also gets rid of rancor.
The reason I like Dual Casting more is because it comes out much earlier and can start copying spells on turn 3 instead of turn 5 like Chandra (assuming you have a 1 drop...). Also copying does not count as casting. I wouldn't be surprised if I ended up replacing Dual Casting with her though.
Presumably with a deck like this we're wanting to get out Delver of Secrets or Nivmagus Elemental (depending on build; it would be undesirable to run both maindeck) on turn one, cast Augur of Bolas or leave up counterspell mana on turn two, then cast a cantrip (and exile it if we've got Nivmagus Elemental on the battlefield) if we don't need the counter, do the same on turn three, and then get out a Guttersnipe on turn four and blast with some one mana instant or sorcery (or the same with Talrand, a turn later).
Do Dual Casting and other copy effects copy overload spells properly? If it is, spells like Electrickery might be useful against certain decks. It already synergizes with Nivmagus Elemental (but not Guttersnipe or Talrand) and draw spells like Think Twice and Thought Scour, so a copy effect may be worth including, but Electrickery is still no Whipflare. I think this deck needs a cheaper sweeper than Mizzium Mortars to help it stabilize.