with all the +1/+1 counter bonuses, has anyone thought of adding Fling to the deck for more reach?
The +1/+1 counters are exactly why Fling doesn't fit so well. You don't have much that you're going to want to sac in this type of deck. You want as many creatures out as you can. I suppose if you had Bloodline Keeper that was spawning vamp tokens you could use those, but that's really the only situation where it would be useful in my opinion. And in that case you already have flying tokens, so it would only be useful if you had a pumped Stromkirk or Heir that you needed to get through.
I'm playing a vampire deck as my budget build on the side for fun.
The direction I've gone is to have multiple low-cost vampires, vampires with bloodthirst or flying, extra burn spells, some kill spells, vampiric fury, and finish off with bloodlord of vaasgoth and bloodgift demon. Personally, I've been viewing bloodgift demon underrated as a whole. He's in the build even though he's not a vampire because he works well with burn.
I don't have my decklist with me at the moment; I can probably post it tomorrow. The principle behind the deck is to hit fast, use burn to either disrupt opponent or assistant with bloodthirst, and bloodgift demon helps draw more cards, such as extra burn or a vampiric fury to go for the last few points of damage.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard:
:symu::symw:Destiny Aggro
:symu::symw:Control
:symu::symu:Mono Blue Fish
:symr::symb:Vampires
The +1/+1 counters are exactly why Fling doesn't fit so well. You don't have much that you're going to want to sac in this type of deck. You want as many creatures out as you can. I suppose if you had Bloodline Keeper that was spawning vamp tokens you could use those, but that's really the only situation where it would be useful in my opinion. And in that case you already have flying tokens, so it would only be useful if you had a pumped Stromkirk or Heir that you needed to get through.
I did include fling on my B/R Vamps, and I think it gives me the much needed reach this deck needs. Just now I was playing my friend's U/W control, it's turn 5 and he had several creatures out namely 1 mirran crusader, and 2 doomed travellers. I had a vampire interloper, and a rakish heir out, my interloper went unanswered so he grew to 5/4 from 2/1 and my rakish heir from 2/2 to 4/4, he was down to 12, I attacked with my interloper for 5, flung him to my friend's face for another 5 and had enough mana to burn him with incinerate for 3, and that was it. Fling would probably be better with volt charge too instead of incinerate.
Justy my 2 cents
By the way here's what my current vampire deck looks like:
1. It doesn't kill as fast as other low curve aggro decks
2. It's creatures don't pump as fast as Human, token or even Steel decks sometimes
3. The midrange ramp strategy doesn't ramp as fast as other green versions do.
BUT, we love our vampires. Many of us would enjoy playing with the higher costing vamps that do fun things, but have cut them for more efficient and quicker wins. I haven't seen an actual BR Ramp Vamp deck yet, though, so I'll post mine. This is the deck that lets you play with the fun ones we've been cutting lately.
It's a fun Tier 2, casual, straight forward, FNM deck. Excuses excuses, yes, I know that means this deck must be bad. Whatever, vamps are bad right now, who gives a ****? From a little testing, I would say this deck wins in the standard meta ~35% of the time while the current tier 1 decks are winning ~55%.
This deck has decent synergy and can pull off some fun wins out of nowhere with creature pump. I've been persuaded before that Adaptive Automatons are usually a bad lord for a tribal deck, but they work well here by lowering the curve a little, boosting tokens, and getting cards just fat enough to win or put the opponent in Brimstone Volley range.
The Ramp and Draw work well together in this deck and make more consistent Brimstone Volleys. I had a fun win against a Dungrove Wolf Run Ramp Deck he chose not to block a Rakish Heir putting him right at 5 and I had enough mana to Doom Blade my own guy and then Brimstone Volley for the win. Volt Charge and Tezzeret's Gambit pump your own SotS and creatures. I wanted to max out 4 of each, but I needed those two Doom Blades as there are plenty of creatures we need straight removal for in this format and the Brimstone Volleys are great in this deck as well.
The sideboard is prototypical. Spellbomb for GY decks (Solar Flare), Refugees against RDW, Vandals against artifacts, Traitorous Blood has been fun against Wolf Run Ramp when they drop their first Titan and you steal it to swing for the win. Despise is all I have against troublesome Hexproof creatures and Planeswalkers.
Anyway, post your thoughts below
Edit: This deck also provides more of the mana to play with fun Olivia interactions. Yay!
1. It doesn't kill as fast as other low curve aggro decks
2. It's creatures don't pump as fast as Human, token or even Steel decks sometimes
3. The midrange ramp strategy doesn't ramp as fast as other green versions do.
BUT, we love our vampires. Many of us would enjoy playing with the higher costing vamps that do fun things, but have cut them for more efficient and quicker wins. I haven't seen an actual BR Ramp Vamp deck yet, though, so I'll post mine. This is the deck that lets you play with the fun ones we've been cutting lately.
It's a fun Tier 2, casual, straight forward, FNM deck. Excuses excuses, yes, I know that means this deck must be bad. Whatever, vamps are bad right now, who gives a ****? From a little testing, I would say this deck wins in the standard meta ~35% of the time while the current tier 1 decks are winning ~55%.
This deck has decent synergy and can pull off some fun wins out of nowhere with creature pump. I've been persuaded before that Adaptive Automatons are usually a bad lord for a tribal deck, but they work well here by lowering the curve a little, boosting tokens, and getting cards just fat enough to win or put the opponent in Brimstone Volley range.
The Ramp and Draw work well together in this deck and make more consistent Brimstone Volleys. I had a fun win against a Dungrove Wolf Run Ramp Deck he chose not to block a Rakish Heir putting him right at 5 and I had enough mana to Doom Blade my own guy and then Brimstone Volley for the win. Volt Charge and Tezzeret's Gambit pump your own SotS and creatures. I wanted to max out 4 of each, but I needed those two Doom Blades as there are plenty of creatures we need straight removal for in this format and the Brimstone Volleys are great in this deck as well.
The sideboard is prototypical. Spellbomb for GY decks (Solar Flare), Refugees against RDW, Vandals against artifacts, Traitorous Blood has been fun against Wolf Run Ramp when they drop their first Titan and you steal it to swing for the win. Despise is all I have against troublesome Hexproof creatures and Planeswalkers.
Anyway, post your thoughts below
I definitely don't disagree in general, but I think it has a little more potential than you give it credit for. I've done fairly well at local FNM, even against people playing the current winning decks for Type 2. It has the ability to surprise, that's for certain. The place I've seen it shine the most is in multiplayer games. It doesn't really draw much attention to itself, and the Curse of Stalked Prey pretty much paints a bulls-eye on an opponent. I have more fun playing my Vamp deck than I do my Wolf Run Ramp or W/G Human decks that have proven themselves in standard tournaments.
I can't wait for Runo (Lord of the Stromkirk bloodline) to get printed, as well as the other Vampire Lords. With a tribal base this strong in the first set of the expansion, it can only get better from here.
Let's hope for a reprint of Vampire Nighthawk. I run them in casual play with my friends and they are stupid good in this deck. Miss those guys.
I did include fling on my B/R Vamps, and I think it gives me the much needed reach this deck needs. Just now I was playing my friend's U/W control, it's turn 5 and he had several creatures out namely 1 mirran crusader, and 2 doomed travellers. I had a vampire interloper, and a rakish heir out, my interloper went unanswered so he grew to 5/4 from 2/1 and my rakish heir from 2/2 to 4/4, he was down to 12, I attacked with my interloper for 5, flung him to my friend's face for another 5 and had enough mana to burn him with incinerate for 3, and that was it. Fling would probably be better with volt charge too instead of incinerate.
Yeah, it's useful in situations like that, but I ran a couple in playtesting and it was usually a dead draw most of the time. It very rarely offered me the reach that I required, I was able to get it elsewhere.
@jmkiser33: I like the ramp and draw idea, if only I could get my hands on a few of those tezzeret's Gambit... would altar's reap be a good substitute for the meantime?
and I think you have enough artifacts in the deck to power up a Galvanic blast for yet more firepower and reach...
@Ririal: Yep, I suppose it's too situational to be of maximum usefulness, I think I need to playtest this a bit more...
Do you think brimstone volley would be a better choice? my neonates usually bite the dust early in the game, ensuring that volley's power gets maximized....
@Ririal: Yep, I suppose it's too situational to be of maximum usefulness, I think I need to playtest this a bit more...
Do you think brimstone volley would be a better choice? my neonates usually bite the dust early in the game, ensuring that volley's power gets maximized....
Don't get me wrong, it's still a good card, it just doesn't fit the play style of my deck. Certainly do more playtesting and see how it works for you.
I've been toying with the direct damage removal in the deck past few games, and Arc Trail is quickly becoming my favorite followed by Volt Charge. Arc Trail in an opening hand can change things very quickly in the start of a game by having the ability to kill two of almost all 1-2 drops that will be a threat early on. This opens your opponent up to being beat in the face, which ramps up your own Vampires.
Brimstone Volley is a solid choice as well, but I'd take Volt Charge over it simply for the proliferate effect that you can count on, instead of a morbid effect that's too hard to predict.
New list that I will actually be able to try out for this FNM if I like the deck. Still no testing, however. The Grave Titan was just thrown in as an extra win-con, and as a 1-of, is not extremely necessary but it is there just in case.
I'm debating on whether or not the Rootbound Crags should really be there since it might mess with the mana base. The other thing I thought about exchanging was Tezzeret's Gambit with Volt Charge not primarily because of the Proliferate, just that 2 life from the Gambit can be crappy at times. It also seems like Gambit might suffer from Sign in Blood syndrome: that is, you use it, draw crap / another Gambit, thus making your last turn kind of useless, whereas Volt Charge can remove a blocker or deal to them at least.
New list that I will actually be able to try out for this FNM if I like the deck. Still no testing, however. The Grave Titan was just thrown in as an extra win-con, and as a 1-of, is not extremely necessary but it is there just in case.
I'm debating on whether or not the Rootbound Crags should really be there since it might mess with the mana base. The other thing I thought about exchanging was Tezzeret's Gambit with Volt Charge not primarily because of the Proliferate, just that 2 life from the Gambit can be crappy at times. It also seems like Gambit might suffer from Sign in Blood syndrome: that is, you use it, draw crap / another Gambit, thus making your last turn kind of useless, whereas Volt Charge can remove a blocker or deal to them at least.
Gambit was a tough card for me to decide to remove from my list. The meta in my area left my deck either set up by turn 3 and not needing the Gambit, or reluctant to play it as I need the mana for other things. If I draw it mid game, it's nice for the proliferate, but I'd rather use a volt charge for that as I rarely need cards mid-late game. The removal helps me more.
I don't have a particularly well-developed sideboard. Just a variation on kill spells and burn, at the moment. Things like slagstorm, geistflame, different numbers of go for the throat and doom blade, etc, to deal with different types of decks.
I'm finding that bloodgift demon is really good. I wanted to play him ever since I saw the Innistrad spoiler, just because I like him and I think he fits the black color perfectly. A 5/4 flying creature for 5 is an aggressively costed body, and his ability to take life and give you cards is great if they don't answer it (and I believe he's well suited in a burn deck, since he can give more fuel to increase the chances of ending the game on turn 6). I think the reason he's being ignored currently is that dismember is making it so that anything with less than 6 toughness is irrelevant, and for 1 more mana you can get consecrated sphinx if you're playing the right colors. Still, for red/black colors, I think he's solid. He adds midgame strength to the deck, and the opponent basically has to answer him.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard:
:symu::symw:Destiny Aggro
:symu::symw:Control
:symu::symu:Mono Blue Fish
:symr::symb:Vampires
Dear vampire guys, especially the ones running curse of stalked prey and proliferate cards.
Have you considered Chimeric mass? Its relevant no matter when you throw it down, and if it gets a +1/+1 counter on it, proliferating it, allows it to gain +2/+2 since you'd proliferate both charge and +1/+1 counters.
Also avoids DoJ, and can work as a functional 1 drop. Other than the "not being a vampire (which olivia can fix if she really wanted to) it seems like a match made for those builds.
Dear vampire guys, especially the ones running curse of stalked prey and proliferate cards.
Have you considered Chimeric mass? Its relevant no matter when you throw it down, and if it gets a +1/+1 counter on it, proliferating it, allows it to gain +2/+2 since you'd proliferate both charge and +1/+1 counters.
Also avoids DoJ, and can work as a functional 1 drop. Other than the "not being a vampire (which olivia can fix if she really wanted to) it seems like a match made for those builds.
It's certainly not a bad choice, especially as it would be a surprise card that they'll likely have no immediate answer for. Most of our decks don't run artifacts, and boarding in artifact hate for just a couple (or single) cards usually isn't going to happen.
The only issue I see with it, is that it is indeed not a Vampire. You can temporarily make it a Vampire using Olivia's ability, but this is where subtype gets tricky. If you animate it again using a card that makes it a creature in addition to or retaining it's original types, then it would again be a Vampire Comstruct artifact creature. However, if you use it's own ability, it's very clearly stating that it becomes a Construct artifact creature. The Construct subtype of it's activated ability overwrites the Vampire subtype since it doesn't specify that it retains previous subtypes. You can at that point hit it with Olivia again, but then you're weakening the creature.
All that said though, it could certainly work in the deck. I wouldn't run it personally because I feel that sticking to the tribal theme is one of the reasons I have so much fun playing this deck. I like that I can even choose spells that fit the vampire theme and still have a pretty damn good casual deck.
Have you considered Chimeric mass? Its relevant no matter when you throw it down, and if it gets a +1/+1 counter on it, proliferating it, allows it to gain +2/+2 since you'd proliferate both charge and +1/+1 counters.
Not quite. Rules entry for proliferate:
701.23a To proliferate means to choose any number of permanents and/or players that have a counter, then give each exactly one additional counter of a kind that permanent or player already has.
You can add a charge counter or a +1/+1, not both.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
International Magic Judge (Level 4)
Former US Southwest Regional Coordinator
I took this deck to a 3-0-1 finish, drawing into the last round for a 1st place finish. Played against Mono-Black Infect (2-1), GW Humans (2-0), Dungrove Wolf-Run Ramp (2-0).
The creatures in the deck are simply the best that are available for their CMCs. Bloodcrazed Neonate at the very least trades with many things, and if you have a Rakish Heir out, gets huge pretty quickly. Stromkirk's "can't be blocked by Humans" can be pretty relevant as well. Vampire Interloper actually felt lackluster, but the flying still helps if a Rakish Heir is on board. I sometimes liked the Automaton better since it immediately pumped damage and offered more resilience off the bat, but I think I will keep it at a 4-2 split for now.
Bloodline Keeper is the best card in the deck. The ability to give +2/+2 is insane, and making guys is even more insane. If you untap with one, it is difficult to lose. Against the Wolf-Run deck, I managed to get one out and it did an amazing job on combating Thrun, the Last Troll. Once I got another one out and play another Vampire, he got a 6/6 Dungrove Elder, I made 2 Vampires, and transformed the Bloodline Keepers to win the game the next turn. 6/6 fliers are pretty powerful...
As for the removal package, Victim of Night is incredibly useful in the meta today. It hits nearly all relevant targets, but the double black is a bit prohibitive. That was why I removed the Stensia Bloodhall and opted to not try Rootbound Crag or Copperline Gorge but I think if I get the chance to test more, they could find their way back in in the place of less Mountains or something.
The sideboard was just a mesh of a few cards. Vulshok Refugee for RDW (which I am thinking of replacing for more Sword of War and Peace since the Refugee isn't too great as he doesn't block Stromkirk Noble anyway), Traitorous Blood for getting rid of bombs for the win, Sever the Bloodline for exiling and getting potentially 2 uses of it (card is surprisingly relevant to get rid of Skithiryx and Wurmcoil Engines), Geistflame was a test card and didn't turn to be very great so I would bump to 2 at most. It hits a lot of Infect guys and Inkmoth Nexus, though. Grudge is for various artifacts like Lashwrithe, etc. Spellbomb was for Solar Flare but I don't think that deck exists much anymore. Could work for UB Snapcaster as well, though. I think Surgical is better here however.
Anyway, that's all how I felt as I played the deck. Didn't get a chance to go to Game Day, but it was nice getting 1st with Vampires at FNM.
EDIT: A few things I forgot to mention. Playing too much burn is not beneficial for this deck. Volt Charge seems good in theory, but having to actually attack once can be more difficult than it seems. I also replaced the Tezzeret's Gambit because the 3 and 2 life is a bit steep as well. Actual removal (eg. Victim of Night, Doom Blade) played a key role for the deck. On the other hand, the Brimstone Volleys are not too bad because they give some pretty good reach. The variance on the card is quite high, though.
EDIT 2: I've heavily updated the first page with sideboard plans and other information.
Hi, I have been at Innistrad Game Day with my Vampire deck. I have fighting against Infect deck, WUB Control and Pod decks and I have lost all the games. I thinks there must be something wrong with my vampire deck. What do you think? Thanks for any idea
That's not a bad list, but you should understand vampire decks can't really compete with the top competitive lists right now. They're good casual decks at best. I'd say we have one of the strongest tribal bases in the current block, and hopefully by Dark Ascension we'll have more to make it competetive.
Edit* With the counters, what about Contagion Clasp? Is it too much of a mana sink for this type of deck?
Not sure if you ever got a reply on your Contagion Clasp comment, but I started out trying to build around it and realized that it's 2 for simple removal (-1,-1), and then 4 to Proliferate.
When I compared to other proliferate cards; Volt Charge is doing three damage and Proliferates for 2R, and Tezzeret's Gambit is drawing two cards and proliferating for 3 and two life. In my opinion, Contagion Clasp is just too slow, at least for an aggro deck, and in a different deck, Contagion Engine is probably a better choice as it proliferates twice for 4.
I like alot your MD, maybe i'd just remove automaton (enough pump with Bloodline + Rakish), and up burn/removal,i think we could use: 04 Arc Trail,
04 Doom Blade, 03 Victim of Night and 03 Brimstone Volley.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
The Adaptive Automatons were great. They served their purpose, and I would not cut them because they provide an immediate +1/+1, which goes a lot longer than you think. Upping creature resilience is very important, especially for Bloodcrazed Neonate. There should be enough removal as it is for now; too much removal can be dead cards against Control.
The Contagion Clasp and Contagion Engine were just an idea. It is most likely too slow and much too "cute." Most of the time, we want to be playing creatures, anyway, and it is too slow without creatures that grow on their own.
As for the strengths of this deck, I think it can compete with a few of the top decks. Control is going to be the hardest match-up, again, like always. The creatures provide enough pressure, and there's enough removal to deal with Wolf-Run Ramp and Mono-Black Infect, and other aggressive decks. You just have to build the deck right.
Using cards like Vampiric Fury and Volt Charge, Grim Affliction are too mediocre. Vampiric Fury itself may find room later, but I prefer having removal/burn over it honestly. You need to streamline your creaturebase and removal package. I chose mine to deal with a lot of the problems we have:
4 Victim of Night (universal removal spell)
2 Go for the Throat (good against Grave Titan, Phyrexian Crusader)
3 Arc Trail (2-for-1s is necessary for early pressure)
3 Brimstone Volley (not the greatest choices, but it is flexible. Also rids us of Mirran Crusader along with Arc Trail)
You could substitute Brimstone Volley for Volt Charge, but the option of dealing 5 damage is very powerful. That's a fourth of a player's life.
You also want a good amount of early drops to take advantage of Bloodline Keeper. That card is hands down the best card in the deck. Another option you can mess around with is Falkenrath Marauders, but I think he may be a little lackluster compared to Olivia Voldaren. Bloodlord of Vaasgoth is just too little, too late. Despise might actually be a decent addition; may try it out later since it can pick Thrun and Mirran Crusader out as well. The Curse of the Stalked Pray doesn't seem that useful since we have Rakish Heir, though.
Well, after extensive testing and last night's FNM, I'm pretty much convinced that this is never going to be a tier 1 deck, not with the weak supply of vamps that we have. Outside of a few standouts (Olivia, Stromkirk, Bloodline, Rakish) there isn't much.
I've been playing this game since Revised and was beaten last night by a kid who net decked WRR who hasn't played this game in close to a year. He decided to get back into it, didn't have a deck, so went out and bought WRR.
I went down 2-0 so fast I never knew what hit me.
The deck is decent, but it's not going to compete with the top tier decks today.
So if you just want to have some fun, you can with this deck. But if you're looking to win tough FNMs where the meta is all top tier decks or a major tournament somewhere, it won't happen.
My deck list is pretty similar to what's already been posted so I won't bother posting it. I honestly didn't expect it to do better than it did as in testing against my other decks, it did poorly, especially against Township Tokens. It's just a bad matchup.
Anyway, I had my fun with it but I'll be taking it apart today and moving on to other decks that are more competitive.
Personally, I tended to wreck Wolf-Run decks just because we have relatively cheap creatures that just become threats on their own. Of course, Slagstorm is incredibly powerful against us at times, but Rakish Heir does a nice job at helping most guys get out of Slagstorm's range. Plus, Wolf-Run is essentially Valakut Redux, so that deck is a no-brainer to play most of the time.
Still, I agree that Vampires is not going to reach tier 1 with its current cardpool. Maybe tier 2 at best. As for Tokens, Arc Trails are nice and possibly Ratchet Bomb in the side could be good as well. Maybe even Black Sun's Zenith, honestly, as doing it for 1 isn't too bad on us since it just cancels the +1/+1 counters we have accrued. I agree that Tokens is a scary deck, though. Blade Splicer is huge against us.
i love vamps and they could be competitive, just not yet...
with my build its been doin very well and i have no problems defeating WRR or any other aggro decks wich seem to be very populary at teh moment. I personally found Heartless Summoning is overlooked in this build. I love it in here of course i went off of the tribal theme just a hair but the core is still vamp based. I haven't been able to do lots of testing yet, i have played 6 matches 3 of which were wrr and went 2-0 in each match. I will be taking this to my next fnm and ill post results. Any ? about my card choices just ask, any suggestions are welcome. Here is my list....
How have the Volt Charges been working out for everyone? I've been considering adding them to my deck in place of shocks due to the proliferate ability. Also has anyone of you won a FNM or anything else with Innistrad vampires?
How have the Volt Charges been working out for everyone? I've been considering adding them to my deck in place of shocks due to the proliferate ability. Also has anyone of you won a FNM or anything else with Innistrad vampires?
Volt Charges have been good to my vamps. One example of it curving out to my advantage is Stromkirk Noble dealing combat damage, dropping a Stormblood Berserker then Volt Charging on turn 3. Late game Volt Charge is also baller for Olivia Voldaren with counters.
My take on vamps. It's significantly different because I removed rakish heirs and bloodcrazed neonate in favor of burn and removal. The problem I was having before was that the creatures aren't good enough for this meta. However, if you can stall til you have 6 land out, Olivia and Bloodline keeper start to shine.
Also the addition of vault skirge is important. Having 4 stromkirks isn't enough first turn plays in a deck, and if you can t1 a skirge and t2 a Curse of Stalked Prey, he becomes a better threat than stromkirk.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
The +1/+1 counters are exactly why Fling doesn't fit so well. You don't have much that you're going to want to sac in this type of deck. You want as many creatures out as you can. I suppose if you had Bloodline Keeper that was spawning vamp tokens you could use those, but that's really the only situation where it would be useful in my opinion. And in that case you already have flying tokens, so it would only be useful if you had a pumped Stromkirk or Heir that you needed to get through.
UW Umans WU (Competitive Record: 10-2-1)
GW Gavony Villagers WG (Competitive Record: 26-6-2)
Casual Decks
BR Vampires RB
The direction I've gone is to have multiple low-cost vampires, vampires with bloodthirst or flying, extra burn spells, some kill spells, vampiric fury, and finish off with bloodlord of vaasgoth and bloodgift demon. Personally, I've been viewing bloodgift demon underrated as a whole. He's in the build even though he's not a vampire because he works well with burn.
I don't have my decklist with me at the moment; I can probably post it tomorrow. The principle behind the deck is to hit fast, use burn to either disrupt opponent or assistant with bloodthirst, and bloodgift demon helps draw more cards, such as extra burn or a vampiric fury to go for the last few points of damage.
:symu::symw:Destiny Aggro
:symu::symw:Control
:symu::symu:Mono Blue Fish
:symr::symb:Vampires
I did include fling on my B/R Vamps, and I think it gives me the much needed reach this deck needs. Just now I was playing my friend's U/W control, it's turn 5 and he had several creatures out namely 1 mirran crusader, and 2 doomed travellers. I had a vampire interloper, and a rakish heir out, my interloper went unanswered so he grew to 5/4 from 2/1 and my rakish heir from 2/2 to 4/4, he was down to 12, I attacked with my interloper for 5, flung him to my friend's face for another 5 and had enough mana to burn him with incinerate for 3, and that was it. Fling would probably be better with volt charge too instead of incinerate.
Justy my 2 cents
By the way here's what my current vampire deck looks like:
4 Dragonskull Summit
1 Stensia bloodhall
7 Swamp
8 Mountain
Creatures = 22
4 Child of Night
4 Vampire Interloper
4 Bloodcrazed Neonate
4 Rakish Heir
2 Olivia Voldaren
2 Bloodline Keeper
2 Falkenrath Marauders
4 Geth's Verdict
2 Grasp of Darkness
3 Incinerate
2 Shock
2 Fling
1 Red Sun's Zenith
4 Vampiric Fury
it may look like it's just piled up together because it is... still procuring some Arc Trails and other stuff to fine tune it...
1. It doesn't kill as fast as other low curve aggro decks
2. It's creatures don't pump as fast as Human, token or even Steel decks sometimes
3. The midrange ramp strategy doesn't ramp as fast as other green versions do.
BUT, we love our vampires. Many of us would enjoy playing with the higher costing vamps that do fun things, but have cut them for more efficient and quicker wins. I haven't seen an actual BR Ramp Vamp deck yet, though, so I'll post mine. This is the deck that lets you play with the fun ones we've been cutting lately.
It's a fun Tier 2, casual, straight forward, FNM deck. Excuses excuses, yes, I know that means this deck must be bad. Whatever, vamps are bad right now, who gives a ****? From a little testing, I would say this deck wins in the standard meta ~35% of the time while the current tier 1 decks are winning ~55%.
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Dragonskull Summit
7 Mountain
7 Swamp
2 Stensia Bloodhall
Yay Vamps 20
4 Stromkirk Noble
2 Adaptive Automaton
4 Rakish Heir
4 Bloodline Keeper
2 Olivia Voldaren
4 Bloodlord of Vaasgoth
2 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Sphere of Suns
Card Draw 3
3 Tezzeret's Gambit
Burn/Removal 7
3 Brimstone Volley
2 Doom Blade
2 Volt Charge
3 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Vulshok Refugee
3 Manic Vandal
4 Despise
2 Traitorous Blood
This deck has decent synergy and can pull off some fun wins out of nowhere with creature pump. I've been persuaded before that Adaptive Automatons are usually a bad lord for a tribal deck, but they work well here by lowering the curve a little, boosting tokens, and getting cards just fat enough to win or put the opponent in Brimstone Volley range.
The Ramp and Draw work well together in this deck and make more consistent Brimstone Volleys. I had a fun win against a Dungrove Wolf Run Ramp Deck he chose not to block a Rakish Heir putting him right at 5 and I had enough mana to Doom Blade my own guy and then Brimstone Volley for the win. Volt Charge and Tezzeret's Gambit pump your own SotS and creatures. I wanted to max out 4 of each, but I needed those two Doom Blades as there are plenty of creatures we need straight removal for in this format and the Brimstone Volleys are great in this deck as well.
The sideboard is prototypical. Spellbomb for GY decks (Solar Flare), Refugees against RDW, Vandals against artifacts, Traitorous Blood has been fun against Wolf Run Ramp when they drop their first Titan and you steal it to swing for the win. Despise is all I have against troublesome Hexproof creatures and Planeswalkers.
Anyway, post your thoughts below
Edit: This deck also provides more of the mana to play with fun Olivia interactions. Yay!
I definitely don't disagree in general, but I think it has a little more potential than you give it credit for. I've done fairly well at local FNM, even against people playing the current winning decks for Type 2. It has the ability to surprise, that's for certain. The place I've seen it shine the most is in multiplayer games. It doesn't really draw much attention to itself, and the Curse of Stalked Prey pretty much paints a bulls-eye on an opponent. I have more fun playing my Vamp deck than I do my Wolf Run Ramp or W/G Human decks that have proven themselves in standard tournaments.
I can't wait for Runo (Lord of the Stromkirk bloodline) to get printed, as well as the other Vampire Lords. With a tribal base this strong in the first set of the expansion, it can only get better from here.
Let's hope for a reprint of Vampire Nighthawk. I run them in casual play with my friends and they are stupid good in this deck. Miss those guys.
Yeah, it's useful in situations like that, but I ran a couple in playtesting and it was usually a dead draw most of the time. It very rarely offered me the reach that I required, I was able to get it elsewhere.
UW Umans WU (Competitive Record: 10-2-1)
GW Gavony Villagers WG (Competitive Record: 26-6-2)
Casual Decks
BR Vampires RB
and I think you have enough artifacts in the deck to power up a Galvanic blast for yet more firepower and reach...
@Ririal: Yep, I suppose it's too situational to be of maximum usefulness, I think I need to playtest this a bit more...
Do you think brimstone volley would be a better choice? my neonates usually bite the dust early in the game, ensuring that volley's power gets maximized....
Don't get me wrong, it's still a good card, it just doesn't fit the play style of my deck. Certainly do more playtesting and see how it works for you.
I've been toying with the direct damage removal in the deck past few games, and Arc Trail is quickly becoming my favorite followed by Volt Charge. Arc Trail in an opening hand can change things very quickly in the start of a game by having the ability to kill two of almost all 1-2 drops that will be a threat early on. This opens your opponent up to being beat in the face, which ramps up your own Vampires.
Brimstone Volley is a solid choice as well, but I'd take Volt Charge over it simply for the proliferate effect that you can count on, instead of a morbid effect that's too hard to predict.
Again, though, these are just my opinions.
UW Umans WU (Competitive Record: 10-2-1)
GW Gavony Villagers WG (Competitive Record: 26-6-2)
Casual Decks
BR Vampires RB
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Vampire Interloper
4 Bloodcrazed Neonate
4 Rakish Heir
2 Adaptive Automaton
4 Bloodline Keeper
2 Olivia Voldaren
1 Grave Titan
Noncreatures: 11
2 Tezzeret's Gambit
3 Arc Trail
3 Doom Blade
3 Brimstone Volley
4 Dragonskull Summit
2 Rootbound Crag
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Stensia Bloodhall
6 Swamp
6 Mountain
3 Vulshok Refugee
1 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Traitorous Blood
3 Gut Shot
3 Ancient Grudge
3 Nihil Spellbomb
New list that I will actually be able to try out for this FNM if I like the deck. Still no testing, however. The Grave Titan was just thrown in as an extra win-con, and as a 1-of, is not extremely necessary but it is there just in case.
I'm debating on whether or not the Rootbound Crags should really be there since it might mess with the mana base. The other thing I thought about exchanging was Tezzeret's Gambit with Volt Charge not primarily because of the Proliferate, just that 2 life from the Gambit can be crappy at times. It also seems like Gambit might suffer from Sign in Blood syndrome: that is, you use it, draw crap / another Gambit, thus making your last turn kind of useless, whereas Volt Charge can remove a blocker or deal to them at least.
Gambit was a tough card for me to decide to remove from my list. The meta in my area left my deck either set up by turn 3 and not needing the Gambit, or reluctant to play it as I need the mana for other things. If I draw it mid game, it's nice for the proliferate, but I'd rather use a volt charge for that as I rarely need cards mid-late game. The removal helps me more.
UW Umans WU (Competitive Record: 10-2-1)
GW Gavony Villagers WG (Competitive Record: 26-6-2)
Casual Decks
BR Vampires RB
3 Stromkirk Noble
3 Vampire Interloper
2 Child of Night
2 Adaptive Automaton
2 Bloodrage Vampire
4 Bloodgift Demon
2 Bloodlord of Vaasgoth
3 Shock
3 Incinerate
3 Brimstone Volley
Killspells: 5
3 doom blade
2 go for the throat
Equipment: 2
2 Sword of War and Peace
2 Chandra, the Firebrand
Land: 24
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Dragonskull Summit
2 Stensia Bloodhall
7 Swamp
7 Mountain
I don't have a particularly well-developed sideboard. Just a variation on kill spells and burn, at the moment. Things like slagstorm, geistflame, different numbers of go for the throat and doom blade, etc, to deal with different types of decks.
I'm finding that bloodgift demon is really good. I wanted to play him ever since I saw the Innistrad spoiler, just because I like him and I think he fits the black color perfectly. A 5/4 flying creature for 5 is an aggressively costed body, and his ability to take life and give you cards is great if they don't answer it (and I believe he's well suited in a burn deck, since he can give more fuel to increase the chances of ending the game on turn 6). I think the reason he's being ignored currently is that dismember is making it so that anything with less than 6 toughness is irrelevant, and for 1 more mana you can get consecrated sphinx if you're playing the right colors. Still, for red/black colors, I think he's solid. He adds midgame strength to the deck, and the opponent basically has to answer him.
:symu::symw:Destiny Aggro
:symu::symw:Control
:symu::symu:Mono Blue Fish
:symr::symb:Vampires
Have you considered Chimeric mass? Its relevant no matter when you throw it down, and if it gets a +1/+1 counter on it, proliferating it, allows it to gain +2/+2 since you'd proliferate both charge and +1/+1 counters.
Also avoids DoJ, and can work as a functional 1 drop. Other than the "not being a vampire (which olivia can fix if she really wanted to) it seems like a match made for those builds.
FNM: Jund RBG
Tumblr: Scary!
It's certainly not a bad choice, especially as it would be a surprise card that they'll likely have no immediate answer for. Most of our decks don't run artifacts, and boarding in artifact hate for just a couple (or single) cards usually isn't going to happen.
The only issue I see with it, is that it is indeed not a Vampire. You can temporarily make it a Vampire using Olivia's ability, but this is where subtype gets tricky. If you animate it again using a card that makes it a creature in addition to or retaining it's original types, then it would again be a Vampire Comstruct artifact creature. However, if you use it's own ability, it's very clearly stating that it becomes a Construct artifact creature. The Construct subtype of it's activated ability overwrites the Vampire subtype since it doesn't specify that it retains previous subtypes. You can at that point hit it with Olivia again, but then you're weakening the creature.
All that said though, it could certainly work in the deck. I wouldn't run it personally because I feel that sticking to the tribal theme is one of the reasons I have so much fun playing this deck. I like that I can even choose spells that fit the vampire theme and still have a pretty damn good casual deck.
UW Umans WU (Competitive Record: 10-2-1)
GW Gavony Villagers WG (Competitive Record: 26-6-2)
Casual Decks
BR Vampires RB
Not quite. Rules entry for proliferate:
701.23a To proliferate means to choose any number of permanents and/or players that have a counter, then give each exactly one additional counter of a kind that permanent or player already has.
You can add a charge counter or a +1/+1, not both.
Former US Southwest Regional Coordinator
Favorite cards of all time:
Overall - Peacekeeper
Flavor text - Blazing Archon
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Copperline Gorge
2 Rootbound Crag
1 Ghost Quarter
6 Swamp
5 Mountain
Creatures -21
4 Stromkirk
4 Rakish Heir
4 stormblood berserker
3 Vampire Interloper
3 Bloodline Keeper
3 Olivia Voldaren
3 Go for the Throat
3 Doom Blade
3 Incinerate
3 Shock
3 Tezzeret's Gambit
3 Ancient Grudge
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Memorcide
2 Traitorous Blood
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Sword of War and Peace
3 Apostle's Blessing
Any opinions on what I should add/remove?
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Vampire Interloper
4 Bloodcrazed Neonate
4 Rakish Heir
2 Adaptive Automaton
4 Bloodline Keeper
2 Olivia Voldaren
3 Arc Trail
3 Victim of Night
3 Doom Blade
3 Brimstone Volley
Lands: 24
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
10 Swamp
6 Mountain
2 Vulshok Refugee
2 Sever the Bloodline
2 Traitorous Blood
3 Geistflame
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Sword of War and Peace
I took this deck to a 3-0-1 finish, drawing into the last round for a 1st place finish. Played against Mono-Black Infect (2-1), GW Humans (2-0), Dungrove Wolf-Run Ramp (2-0).
The creatures in the deck are simply the best that are available for their CMCs. Bloodcrazed Neonate at the very least trades with many things, and if you have a Rakish Heir out, gets huge pretty quickly. Stromkirk's "can't be blocked by Humans" can be pretty relevant as well. Vampire Interloper actually felt lackluster, but the flying still helps if a Rakish Heir is on board. I sometimes liked the Automaton better since it immediately pumped damage and offered more resilience off the bat, but I think I will keep it at a 4-2 split for now.
Bloodline Keeper is the best card in the deck. The ability to give +2/+2 is insane, and making guys is even more insane. If you untap with one, it is difficult to lose. Against the Wolf-Run deck, I managed to get one out and it did an amazing job on combating Thrun, the Last Troll. Once I got another one out and play another Vampire, he got a 6/6 Dungrove Elder, I made 2 Vampires, and transformed the Bloodline Keepers to win the game the next turn. 6/6 fliers are pretty powerful...
As for the removal package, Victim of Night is incredibly useful in the meta today. It hits nearly all relevant targets, but the double black is a bit prohibitive. That was why I removed the Stensia Bloodhall and opted to not try Rootbound Crag or Copperline Gorge but I think if I get the chance to test more, they could find their way back in in the place of less Mountains or something.
The sideboard was just a mesh of a few cards. Vulshok Refugee for RDW (which I am thinking of replacing for more Sword of War and Peace since the Refugee isn't too great as he doesn't block Stromkirk Noble anyway), Traitorous Blood for getting rid of bombs for the win, Sever the Bloodline for exiling and getting potentially 2 uses of it (card is surprisingly relevant to get rid of Skithiryx and Wurmcoil Engines), Geistflame was a test card and didn't turn to be very great so I would bump to 2 at most. It hits a lot of Infect guys and Inkmoth Nexus, though. Grudge is for various artifacts like Lashwrithe, etc. Spellbomb was for Solar Flare but I don't think that deck exists much anymore. Could work for UB Snapcaster as well, though. I think Surgical is better here however.
Anyway, that's all how I felt as I played the deck. Didn't get a chance to go to Game Day, but it was nice getting 1st with Vampires at FNM.
EDIT: A few things I forgot to mention. Playing too much burn is not beneficial for this deck. Volt Charge seems good in theory, but having to actually attack once can be more difficult than it seems. I also replaced the Tezzeret's Gambit because the 3 and 2 life is a bit steep as well. Actual removal (eg. Victim of Night, Doom Blade) played a key role for the deck. On the other hand, the Brimstone Volleys are not too bad because they give some pretty good reach. The variance on the card is quite high, though.
EDIT 2: I've heavily updated the first page with sideboard plans and other information.
That's not a bad list, but you should understand vampire decks can't really compete with the top competitive lists right now. They're good casual decks at best. I'd say we have one of the strongest tribal bases in the current block, and hopefully by Dark Ascension we'll have more to make it competetive.
UW Umans WU (Competitive Record: 10-2-1)
GW Gavony Villagers WG (Competitive Record: 26-6-2)
Casual Decks
BR Vampires RB
Not sure if you ever got a reply on your Contagion Clasp comment, but I started out trying to build around it and realized that it's 2 for simple removal (-1,-1), and then 4 to Proliferate.
When I compared to other proliferate cards; Volt Charge is doing three damage and Proliferates for 2R, and Tezzeret's Gambit is drawing two cards and proliferating for 3 and two life. In my opinion, Contagion Clasp is just too slow, at least for an aggro deck, and in a different deck, Contagion Engine is probably a better choice as it proliferates twice for 4.
Brian
I like alot your MD, maybe i'd just remove automaton (enough pump with Bloodline + Rakish), and up burn/removal,i think we could use: 04 Arc Trail,
04 Doom Blade, 03 Victim of Night and 03 Brimstone Volley.
The Contagion Clasp and Contagion Engine were just an idea. It is most likely too slow and much too "cute." Most of the time, we want to be playing creatures, anyway, and it is too slow without creatures that grow on their own.
As for the strengths of this deck, I think it can compete with a few of the top decks. Control is going to be the hardest match-up, again, like always. The creatures provide enough pressure, and there's enough removal to deal with Wolf-Run Ramp and Mono-Black Infect, and other aggressive decks. You just have to build the deck right.
Using cards like Vampiric Fury and Volt Charge, Grim Affliction are too mediocre. Vampiric Fury itself may find room later, but I prefer having removal/burn over it honestly. You need to streamline your creaturebase and removal package. I chose mine to deal with a lot of the problems we have:
4 Victim of Night (universal removal spell)
2 Go for the Throat (good against Grave Titan, Phyrexian Crusader)
3 Arc Trail (2-for-1s is necessary for early pressure)
3 Brimstone Volley (not the greatest choices, but it is flexible. Also rids us of Mirran Crusader along with Arc Trail)
You could substitute Brimstone Volley for Volt Charge, but the option of dealing 5 damage is very powerful. That's a fourth of a player's life.
You also want a good amount of early drops to take advantage of Bloodline Keeper. That card is hands down the best card in the deck. Another option you can mess around with is Falkenrath Marauders, but I think he may be a little lackluster compared to Olivia Voldaren. Bloodlord of Vaasgoth is just too little, too late. Despise might actually be a decent addition; may try it out later since it can pick Thrun and Mirran Crusader out as well. The Curse of the Stalked Pray doesn't seem that useful since we have Rakish Heir, though.
I've been playing this game since Revised and was beaten last night by a kid who net decked WRR who hasn't played this game in close to a year. He decided to get back into it, didn't have a deck, so went out and bought WRR.
I went down 2-0 so fast I never knew what hit me.
The deck is decent, but it's not going to compete with the top tier decks today.
So if you just want to have some fun, you can with this deck. But if you're looking to win tough FNMs where the meta is all top tier decks or a major tournament somewhere, it won't happen.
My deck list is pretty similar to what's already been posted so I won't bother posting it. I honestly didn't expect it to do better than it did as in testing against my other decks, it did poorly, especially against Township Tokens. It's just a bad matchup.
Anyway, I had my fun with it but I'll be taking it apart today and moving on to other decks that are more competitive.
This one just isn't going to cut it.
Still, I agree that Vampires is not going to reach tier 1 with its current cardpool. Maybe tier 2 at best. As for Tokens, Arc Trails are nice and possibly Ratchet Bomb in the side could be good as well. Maybe even Black Sun's Zenith, honestly, as doing it for 1 isn't too bad on us since it just cancels the +1/+1 counters we have accrued. I agree that Tokens is a scary deck, though. Blade Splicer is huge against us.
with my build its been doin very well and i have no problems defeating WRR or any other aggro decks wich seem to be very populary at teh moment. I personally found Heartless Summoning is overlooked in this build. I love it in here of course i went off of the tribal theme just a hair but the core is still vamp based. I haven't been able to do lots of testing yet, i have played 6 matches 3 of which were wrr and went 2-0 in each match. I will be taking this to my next fnm and ill post results. Any ? about my card choices just ask, any suggestions are welcome. Here is my list....
4 Stromkirk Noble
4 Rakish Heir
2 Bloodlord of Vaasgoth
2 Olivia Volderan
2 Inferno Titan
2 Grave Titan
2 Chancellor of the Dross
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Doom Blade
2 Go for the Throat
3 Brimstone Volley
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Blackcleave Cliff
2 Stensia Bloodhall
8 Swamp
4 Mountain
No board yet of course it will likely include Dismember, Tribute to hunger, and Geth's Verdict. So thoughts?
Thank you Hakai Studios for the sig. Argetlam your work is great..:D
Volt Charges have been good to my vamps. One example of it curving out to my advantage is Stromkirk Noble dealing combat damage, dropping a Stormblood Berserker then Volt Charging on turn 3. Late game Volt Charge is also baller for Olivia Voldaren with counters.
4 vampire interloper
4 vault skirge
4 bloodline keeper
2 Olivia Voldaren
3 brimstone volley
3 curse of stalked prey
2 arc trail
3 volt charge
2 tezzeret's gambit
4 dragonskull summit
10 swamp
9 mountain
My take on vamps. It's significantly different because I removed rakish heirs and bloodcrazed neonate in favor of burn and removal. The problem I was having before was that the creatures aren't good enough for this meta. However, if you can stall til you have 6 land out, Olivia and Bloodline keeper start to shine.
Also the addition of vault skirge is important. Having 4 stromkirks isn't enough first turn plays in a deck, and if you can t1 a skirge and t2 a Curse of Stalked Prey, he becomes a better threat than stromkirk.