I think it has a good shot to port over to Standard. I'm going to try and grind with a version at GP Minneapolis I think... then if it stinks horribly switch to something else for the main event.
There are a few things that you need to consider about this deck. One is that Entreat is the main win condition. Tamiyo helps, but if they Surgically Extract Entreat, you pretty much lose. Packing in countermagic helps, but they might be running it as well. Suddenly all of these sweet miracles are facing counters where they really weren't in block.
Second is that many of the staple cards UBx Control decks use are pretty much unplayable in a deck like this. It's kind of hard to wrap your head around...
O-Ring? Bad because of Tide (or would that perm-Exile something?)
Day of Judgement? A sorcery that you'd hate to draw into on their turn.
Lili or Sorin? Redundant and not worth bouncing back to your hand unlike Tamiyo. Sorin would be fun to pop out multiple Emblems with, but that might not be worth the trouble.
Ratchet Bomb? There is no point to even try to run this.
Forbidden Alchemy? It puts the card in your hand, not draws.
Curse? for 5 mana, I want a miracle.
Batterskull? Same here. I don't want to spend 5 mana, and then another 5 to just make a token swing harder. I'd rather Entreat and then take another turn off a miracle.
Ponder? Sorcery speed hurts this bad. Ad good as it would be to stack a draw, I'd hate to Think Twice into it.
What's left?
GftT and Doom Blade... a good sideboard option, esp since you want to try and hit a miracle with two mana open.
Leak... see above
Phantasmal Image... would bounce back with Tide so you can reset, but it also hurt by Terminus
Dungeon Geists... a mini Tamiyo. But also fragile.
Gideon... works swell with Tamiyo, is not so bad if you bounce him... acts as another win condition.
Lingering Souls... another win condition, and only takes a small splash of B to run.
I have probably played around 10 games with this deck, i have played vs RG aggro, naya pod, ramp and a few human variants. so far i like it, lots of fun, and it really gives them hell.
The red splash for desolate lighthouse has been amazing.
Entreat being the primary win condition is sort of true, but i have won about 50% of my games via tamio + thought scour. not to mention Tamio+ desolate or tamio + dissipate or ghost quarter is amazing!
"ofc tamiyo ultimate is crazy good tyler, but this isn't magical christmas land"
don't be too sure, it is very easy to ultimate tamiyo in this deck, i have done it vs humans, vs rg aggro and even vs ramp.
Tamiyo's ultimate with a thought scour in hand is almost ALWAYS gg. It's either a 1 mana draw 4, or a 5 mana draw 5 mill target opponent 10. with feeling of dread and terminus, tamayo ultimate is well within reach.
I'm not too sure how long it will take for this deck to be hated out of the format, but for now, it's standard ready, even though it's nearly 100% block. it's sort of how tempered steel was last season.
EDIT: fettergeist isn't as good as i thought. it might end up being too big of a mana sink. this deck doesn't really look for stuff to do with its mana.
i would still really like to hear how people handle Solar Flare i have been surprise intercourse with that for a while now what is your gameplan and what do you sideboard in and out?
I have been testing this list on cockatrice quite a bit.
I am sure you've seen the block contructed miracles.dec. This is the same but I added red for desperate ravings and bonfire.
Desperate ravings is an absolute all-star, it keeps your hand completely full, you'll never miss a land drop, and when you get 6+ mana you'll never be wanting for something to spend it on.
Bonfire is a pretty good replacement for Devastation Tide, but doesn't properly deal with alot of the threats out there. In any case, its another wincon, you can cast it, and Noxious Revival it, and then keep doing that.
VS aggro it's quite strong, you can count on a sweeper or a flood of angels coming up by turn 5 at least. It slows them down quite alot. Game 2 side in whipflares and souls and the swamp, and it gets even better.
Vs Control - Pretty good, although a resolved titan can be somewhat difficult to deal with if you don't have a sweeper. I will try some mainboard oblivion rings to deal with these large threats. The good news is that their counterspells are generally being eaten up pretty early by the miracles. A resolved Tamiyo usually spells game over for them.
Vs. Frites - Easy, their mana dorks are constantly being destroyed and even Elesh Norn cannot do anything against 1 million angels. However, I usually won by sweeping the mana dorks, resolving a Tamiyo, and then taking extra turns to the win.
Vs BW Tokens - This is the main reason whipflare is in the SB. It's pretty difficult with all the recurring spirits they have - pretty easy to kill your tamiyo. Siding in surgicals, lingering souls and whipflare helps a ton game 2 and 3 though.
Vs Delver - I havn't had the chance to test against this. I think it can be strong, delver will have trouble dealing with that many angels.
In my testing Noxious Revival has been incredible. It synergizes with looting effects, essentially tutors up Miracles from your graveyard at instant speed for free, and can be cast in response to Surgical Extraction.
wickd, great to hear... I know Cockitrice isn't the best example... but still great news, and I hadn't thought of it as defense against Extraction. I was going to play the following list tonight, but got called in to work late and can't make it.
wickd, can we see your list and tournament reports/comments? If I can get a chance to test this week, I'm taking it to GPMN.
Elspeth might be a good trick. Otherwise, I'm thinking Tide should be a SB card. against some decks it's just not very good. I'd rather have more counter magic or black based instant removal. Remember we're able to "miracle" those cards too, and usually for the same cost as we would something like Tide.
tested it... got rolled by GR this deck is missing the swords/path from the legacy verison (and brainstorm but we will never ever see that card in std)
Played a Esper Miracles heavy deck at GPMN. Got a tie first round thanks to a slow player who wasn't sure what to do against the deck. In testing I was happy with my aggro matchup, but got shoved into the "tie bracket" with a huge chunk of control. Wasn't expecting it at all and was unprepared for grindy long games that went to time each round. UGH. Went 2-2-1 drop. List a bit different from above, but similar. Ran 4 Feeling of Dread, which was an all star. Beat Venser Blink, Turbofog. Lost to Superfriends and another Venser Blink. Tie was to RG Ramp.
Then I rebuilt my superfriends deck, went back and played side events and did very well.
tested it... got rolled by GR this deck is missing the swords/path from the legacy verison (and brainstorm but we will never ever see that card in std)
Thats not going to help vs Sword of W&P, since it's proc white. You really want tragic slips or something so you can kill that mana dork asap. Or you've got to hope you miracle Mastery early, so you can explore and then day.
Thats not going to help vs Sword of W&P, since it's proc white. You really want tragic slips or something so you can kill that mana dork asap. Or you've got to hope you miracle Mastery early, so you can explore and then day.
Righteous Blow is not something anyone should consider. Seriously, splash B if you need for proper removal and a Souls SB plan, or pack in more sweepers. Here was the deck I ran at GPMIN for reference.
I scrapped the build though and have gone back to the drawing board. I'm basically heading back to a more Superfriend style build using more miracles, as it worked much better for me last night.
Here is my tournament report, but I did end up taking things into a different direction than just "straight up Miracles" after my experience. Here is the full report:
Went 2-2-1 at GPMN before dropping. When this deck works, it's super fun and chugs along nicely. If it stinks, it SUCKS. Didn't help that I was geared as anti-aggro expecting RG and Delver everywhere... saw 4 Control decks. Was totally not expecting Venser Blink decks, which I faced twice.
Game 1 - RG Ramp 1-1 (1-0)
Match 1 - Mulled to 5 cards. Not a good excuse, but it wasn't pretty thanks to multiple Inkmoths. I could only hold them off for so long.
Match 2 - Drew a nice hand. I was able to win off of an Entreat x5 Miracle and he couldn't deal with my attack.
Match 3 - It was a good match, with a lot of back and forth between us. I'd Terminus when he had good board presence, he had Whipfare + Slagstorm for my angels. He was Beast Within'ing my Walkers, and between Gideon and Beast tokens I had him down to 3 life (me at 20) when we went to time. I'm confident had I not had to mull game 1, I could have locked it. I simply had way too many answers for his deck with Feeling of Dread (love this card) and Snapcastered Doom Blades.
Game 2 - Bant Turbofog 2-0 (1-0-1)
Game one - I really wasn't sure what he was up to. I killed him pretty quickly with Entreat Miracle, and had Mana Leak ready for a Fog.
Game two - He resolves a Rites of Flourishing and it becomes obvious he's Turbofog. Problem was, the enchantment helped me more than it helped him, and I resolved a Tamiyo and Emblemed her easily since he had no attackers. He tried resolving his own Entreat, but I had a counter for it. One nice trick I tried... Drownyard. Let me draw a ton with Tamiyo. I killed him with angels + Mastery, which helped off set any life gain he had rolling.
Game 3 - Esper Superfriends 0-2 (1-1-1)
Match 1 - Game one he was simply faster than I was, and resolved a Lingering Souls followed by Sorin. I kept him at bay for a while with Feeling of Dread, and Terminus. However once I resolved an Entreat, he had the DoJ ready and beat me with Gideon.
Match 2 - I had issues with mana early thanks to mulling to 6 and couldn't find a second W source for the Gideon and Terminus in my hand. I kept drawing cards I couldn't cast and soon he resolved a Tamiyo tapping down my only W source multiple turns. By the time I found a second, it was to late and I was beat down by tokens + Norn.
Match 4 - UW Venser 0-1 (1-2-1)
Game 1 - I had control for a while, and assumed it was just a standard UW control build. He resolves Venser + Stonehorn and I can't do anything to stop him from going Ult. By the time the game reached 35 mins, I figured that the only way I could beat it was one card NOT in my graveyard (a Gideon that he would just blow up with Venser). I scooped and wanted to get to game 2, where I figured I had a better shot beating him with my sideboard.
Game 2 - Now that I knew what to expect I was ready for him. I had counters and removal for dudes, but we went to time quickly. Because he won game 1 and had a soft lock when we went to time, I had no choice but take the loss.
Match 5 - UW Venser - 2-0 (2-2-1)
Game 1 - I recognized pretty quickly that this was an identical deck to what I just faced, so I tried to be much more aggressive. It helped, and I was able to bluff him a few times. He wasn't as technical of a player as the previous guy, but he slowly started gaining control. He had a soft Stonehorn/Venser lock on me, but I had a few angels ready and hit double Temporal Mastery for the win.
Game 2 - I brought in Lingering Souls which helped me peck away at him early. He was getting frustrated and tired, and I was able to outplay him after he missed some triggers. I got a massive Entreat off Miracle and won.
It was a 9 round tournament and confirmed with a judge or two that at my record, the only way I could Day 2 was off of ridiculous tiebreakers. I had played 4 control matches in a row that went to time, and I was hungry and tired and didn't want to to go through the motions for the rest of the night when I could get home and rest and go back tomorrow for side events.
Over all, I do love this deck, but was totally unprepared for two Venser decks in a row. With everyone freaking out of Delver and RG lately, I was more worried about those matches and just didn't have answers when I needed them versus control.
I didn't play horribly, but I certainly made some errors due to lack of practicing with the deck. It's a tricky one to play, and you have to be ready for some grindy games. One thing I found out was that it's that first round draw that really hurt me. Control players tend to go to time often, and end up in this zone of "tie bracket Control decks" that just sit and grind at it with each other all day. Had I known this I would have dropped earlier or faught a bit harder to avoid a tie round 1, esp after I heard the SCG Qualifier going on at the same time had only 16 people in it. Half the people walked away with cash.
I went home, re-assembled the following Superfriends build, and went back on Sunday.
I ended up going into two Single Elimination Standard queues. First one I lost right away to Frites. Game one was a blowout and I had crap draws, Game two I had him on the ropes for most of the game. Unfortunately though the new RW ability land helped him ping me down to Bonfire territory.
Second Tournament went much better
Game 1 UW Miracles/Venserlock 2-1 (1-0)
Game one he got the lock and I wasn't able to shake him. But second game I drew like a champ and sided in my Temporal Masterys against him. They not only allowed me to "Explore" early game, but put me ahead in the Angel token war. I beat him down pretty quickly. Third game was a SLUGFEST. Back and forth, both of us digging for answers and pooping out tokens like crazy. For me, the extra sweepers made the difference, and I was able to win the topdeck war. He was a fantastic player that had Day 2'd the GP with this deck, and I asked him for the list to share.
Game 2 RWU Miracles 2-1 (2-0)
First game he Bonfired me for the win. Second game I had the team of Gideon/angels/souls and was able to finish him off quickly thanks to 2x Sorin emblems. Third game was the long one. I had a Tamiyo emblem and had 2 Entreat, 1 Terminus, 1 Mana Leak, 2 Lingering Souls in hand. I drew lands for SEVEN TURNS and he kept playing and replaying Batterskull. I eventually topdecked a Temporal Mastery for the win, but it was Vault of the Archangel that helped win this one. It took me out of Bonfire range and I had the game all but locked.
Unfortunately I had been playing Mana Leak wrong with the emblem, or I would have ended it much sooner. I was told on Saturday by some dude that when you play leak and the emblem is active... it doesn't return to your hand and stays on the stack when they pay 3. So I was under the impression that you couldn't "keep leaking." Once the game ended, everyone including the judges informed me that I could indeed return the Leak to my hand and keep playing it so long as I had the mana for it. This wouldnt have changed things in my GP performance, but would have cut my games down timewise in the side events.
Finals was someone playing that Kamikaze deck. We agreed to split since it was getting late.
I like both decks, but I still felt something was off in the end. So I'm going to build this, the Venser/Miracles deck I played against for tournament play:
It basically solves the mana issues of Superfriends, the "do nothing" of Miracles, and the fiddliness of the Venser decks. I think this is a perfect build, though I did make some changes. -3 Temporal Mastery (2 to board), -1 Plains, +2 Frost Titan, +2 O-ring... and changed the SB to include Karn and Reins and include some Mana Leaks.
So I think if Miracles are going to work, it has to be something a bit more as a complimentary package to something else. I'm convinced that Terminus needs to be a x4 and Entreat a x3 in any Esper control since they worked so well in both builds...
Tide is just junk. Worked great in block, but avoid it here. Any time I drew it at the GP I didn't want it because the game was grinding long enough that it wouldn't have done much that a Feeling of Dread or Tamiyo wouldn't have taken care of without setting myself behind as well.
Temporal Mastery I would leave in the sideboard for Control. It helps really grind them out, and allows for faster recovery. I don't think it does much against Aggro, but is worth bringing in as a main x1 IMO.
I've built the deck recently too. I've included 1 or 2 Juras. Can anyone comment on how does he do actually? Instead of having 4 Tamiyos?
I was thinking of 2 Juras and 2 Tamiyo.
Also I've been wondering why Hayne didn't use dual lands?
Edit 2: Need also sideboarding advice. Paticularly against Wolf Run Ramp, R/G Aggro and U/w Delver.
I know Tide doesn't really work against Ramp and R/G Aggro since they have so much mana they can cast them again. I'm Guessing Day of Judgement could work, but still need advice. Thanks!
I've built the deck recently too. I've included 1 or 2 Juras. Can anyone comment on how does he do actually? Instead of having 4 Tamiyos?
Gideon is a must. He's how you win games, esp if they surgically extract your Entreats. In fact I would say you need at least one other way to win as well just in case. Frost Titan, Batterskull, Sphinx, Venserlock, Sun Titan...
I was thinking of 2 Juras and 2 Tamiyo.
Based on my tournaments above, I like 3 Tami, 2 Jura
Also I've been wondering why Hayne didn't use dual lands?
^ Thanks for your reply, for some reason I thought that was standard instead of block constructed. Out of the cards that you listed, What would be best if I'm staying with U/W colors?
Having spent the weekend playing control, you don't auto-win by landing a Tamiyo. Some builds pack O-Rings, to which a build like yours is weak to (speaking as someone who was also weak to O-Rings at the GP). I do like your build Yami, but I would say cut the Tides and go a full 4 Terminus, you won't regret it! Days I would move to board and bring in 2 Feeling of Dread main.
@chili... I'd have to see your list to give advice.
A couple of things I think I need to point out from my experiences from GPMIN, as I think I'll end up repeating them a ton.
1- Gideon is a MUST include.
2 - You need to consider a 3rd win condition besides angels and Gideon. If they extract one, you don't want to be panicing for the only other option you have. This and most lists only run 2 Extractions anyway. I would recomend Batterskull, Frost Titan, or find a way to encorporate the Venser Lock, like in the list above.
3 - Devastation Tide looks better on paper than in practice. It's only really great early game, so when you draw it late, it might be a dead card. Many decks quickly recover from this trick and can barf out their hand if you can't back it up with counters.
4 - Temporal Mastery is very tricky to play with. Keep practicing. In truth, I've moved all but one to the SB. It's REALLY good against control, not so much against Aggro. Sometimes you need it as an Explore, but sometimes you'll just want to put it into your hand and wait till you are about the go in for the kill and they are tapped out.
5 - Don't get too stuck on the "instant speed draw" thing. Remember, many times you'll be miracaling on your own turn. So a draw suite of 3 x Think Twice, 3-4 Ponder, and 2 Thought Scour is great. I ran 4 TS and 4 TT and always wished I had more digging power with Ponder.
6 - Feeling of Dread is the real deal. 3-4 maindeck for sure.
7 - Don't be scared of Caverns. 3-4 Leaks are a must.
8 - Tamiyo's Ultimate is very very tricky. People will question what you can actually do with the trick. Talk to a judge and make sure you understand. The Ultamite + Leak in hand + enough mana means you have won the game. Don't get cute and keep trying to do crazy stuff... you'll end up screwing up something and dragging the game on too long. As long as you have things in your hand to do, you're going to win. The Thought Scour "mill them to death" is too risky. Don't mess with it. Fill YOUR hand with it, and keep them from doing anything until they scoop or until you can ping them away with your creatures. Ghost Quarter is brutal as well... pack at least 1-2 in your main build.
9 - Terminus IS AWESOME. 4 main. If you must run DoJ, put them in the SB as a 2 of.
This is just opinion, but based on grinding many games at GPMIN both in the main event and in side events. Personally, I think you need more than "just miracles" to make it work. Read my tournament report above and see what I mean.
13 Island
10 Plains
27 lands
4 Devastation Tide
1 Dissipate
4 Entreat the Angels
4 Feeling of Dread
4 Temporal Mastery
4 Terminus
4 Think Twice
4 Thought Scour
1 Angel's Mercy
4 Cathedral Sanctifier
3 Dissipate
3 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Midnight Haunting
2 Snapcaster Mage
The deck that won PTQ barca
i really feel like we can port it to std and see it do well
Thoughts?
There are a few things that you need to consider about this deck. One is that Entreat is the main win condition. Tamiyo helps, but if they Surgically Extract Entreat, you pretty much lose. Packing in countermagic helps, but they might be running it as well. Suddenly all of these sweet miracles are facing counters where they really weren't in block.
Second is that many of the staple cards UBx Control decks use are pretty much unplayable in a deck like this. It's kind of hard to wrap your head around...
O-Ring? Bad because of Tide (or would that perm-Exile something?)
Day of Judgement? A sorcery that you'd hate to draw into on their turn.
Lili or Sorin? Redundant and not worth bouncing back to your hand unlike Tamiyo. Sorin would be fun to pop out multiple Emblems with, but that might not be worth the trouble.
Ratchet Bomb? There is no point to even try to run this.
Forbidden Alchemy? It puts the card in your hand, not draws.
Curse? for 5 mana, I want a miracle.
Batterskull? Same here. I don't want to spend 5 mana, and then another 5 to just make a token swing harder. I'd rather Entreat and then take another turn off a miracle.
Ponder? Sorcery speed hurts this bad. Ad good as it would be to stack a draw, I'd hate to Think Twice into it.
What's left?
GftT and Doom Blade... a good sideboard option, esp since you want to try and hit a miracle with two mana open.
Leak... see above
Phantasmal Image... would bounce back with Tide so you can reset, but it also hurt by Terminus
Dungeon Geists... a mini Tamiyo. But also fragile.
Gideon... works swell with Tamiyo, is not so bad if you bounce him... acts as another win condition.
Lingering Souls... another win condition, and only takes a small splash of B to run.
4 Terminus
3 Temporal Mastery
4 Entreat the Angels
2 Devastation Tide
Miracle draw/set up
4 Thought Scour
4 Think Twice
3 Desolate Lighthouse
3 Ponder
4 Feeling of Dread
1 Dissipate
4 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
Land
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Sulfur Falls
5 Plains
6 Island
1 Mountain
4 Timely Reinforcements
2 Dissipate
2 Phantasmal Image
4 Fettergeist
3 Batterskull
The red splash for desolate lighthouse has been amazing.
Entreat being the primary win condition is sort of true, but i have won about 50% of my games via tamio + thought scour. not to mention Tamio+ desolate or tamio + dissipate or ghost quarter is amazing!
"ofc tamiyo ultimate is crazy good tyler, but this isn't magical christmas land"
don't be too sure, it is very easy to ultimate tamiyo in this deck, i have done it vs humans, vs rg aggro and even vs ramp.
Tamiyo's ultimate with a thought scour in hand is almost ALWAYS gg. It's either a 1 mana draw 4, or a 5 mana draw 5 mill target opponent 10. with feeling of dread and terminus, tamayo ultimate is well within reach.
I'm not too sure how long it will take for this deck to be hated out of the format, but for now, it's standard ready, even though it's nearly 100% block. it's sort of how tempered steel was last season.
EDIT: fettergeist isn't as good as i thought. it might end up being too big of a mana sink. this deck doesn't really look for stuff to do with its mana.
4 Devastation Tide
3 Entreat the Angels
3 Temporal Mastery
4 Terminus
4 Think Twice
4 Thought Scour
3 Mana Leak
4 Lingering Souls
2 Gideon Jura
1 Mana Leak
2 Negate
2 Go For The Throat
1 Doom Blade
1 Divine Offering
3 Celestial Purge
2 Geist of St Traft
1 Karn Liberated
2 Redirect
I am sure you've seen the block contructed miracles.dec. This is the same but I added red for desperate ravings and bonfire.
Desperate ravings is an absolute all-star, it keeps your hand completely full, you'll never miss a land drop, and when you get 6+ mana you'll never be wanting for something to spend it on.
Bonfire is a pretty good replacement for Devastation Tide, but doesn't properly deal with alot of the threats out there. In any case, its another wincon, you can cast it, and Noxious Revival it, and then keep doing that.
VS aggro it's quite strong, you can count on a sweeper or a flood of angels coming up by turn 5 at least. It slows them down quite alot. Game 2 side in whipflares and souls and the swamp, and it gets even better.
Vs Control - Pretty good, although a resolved titan can be somewhat difficult to deal with if you don't have a sweeper. I will try some mainboard oblivion rings to deal with these large threats. The good news is that their counterspells are generally being eaten up pretty early by the miracles. A resolved Tamiyo usually spells game over for them.
Vs. Frites - Easy, their mana dorks are constantly being destroyed and even Elesh Norn cannot do anything against 1 million angels. However, I usually won by sweeping the mana dorks, resolving a Tamiyo, and then taking extra turns to the win.
Vs BW Tokens - This is the main reason whipflare is in the SB. It's pretty difficult with all the recurring spirits they have - pretty easy to kill your tamiyo. Siding in surgicals, lingering souls and whipflare helps a ton game 2 and 3 though.
Vs Delver - I havn't had the chance to test against this. I think it can be strong, delver will have trouble dealing with that many angels.
2 Noxious Revival
2 Think Twice
4 Thought Scour
3 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
2 Bonfire of the Damned
4 Entreat the Angels
4 Ponder
4 Temporal Mastery
4 Terminus
4 Evolving Wilds
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Seachrome Coast
5 Island
3 Mountain
3 Plains
3 Phantasmal Image
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Swamp
4 Lingering Souls
2 Whipflare
:symu::symr::symg: ANIMAR :symu::symr::symg:
wickd, can we see your list and tournament reports/comments? If I can get a chance to test this week, I'm taking it to GPMN.
Miracles
3 Entreat the Angels
3 Temporal Mastery
4 Terminus
Instants
4 Think Twice
4 Thought Scour
3 Mana Leak
4 Lingering Souls
2 Go For The Throat
1 Doom Blade
2 Feeling of Dread
2 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
2 Gideon Jura
1 Mana Leak
2 Negate
3 Devastation Tide
3 Divine Offering
3 Celestial Purge
2 Geist of St Traft
1 Karn Liberated
Comments, suggestions?
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Temporal Mastery
4 Terminus
2 Devastation Tide
3 Entreat the Angels
4 Ponder
4 Lingering Souls
2 Noxious Revival
4 Think Twice
2 Righteous Blow
2 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Elspeth Tirel
4 Island
3 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Drowned Catacomb
2 Evolving Wilds
2 Vault of the Archangel
4 Glacial Fortress
3 Isolated Chapel
4 Seachrome Coast
Then I rebuilt my superfriends deck, went back and played side events and did very well.
Will try some with Righteous Blow.
Thats not going to help vs Sword of W&P, since it's proc white. You really want tragic slips or something so you can kill that mana dork asap. Or you've got to hope you miracle Mastery early, so you can explore and then day.
Alternative, I would probably go with Dismember.
4 Feeling of Dread
3 Temporal Mastery
4 Terminus
4 Think Twice
4 Thought Scour
3 Mana Leak
2 Go For the Throat
1 Doom Blade
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
2 Gideon Jura
2 Negate
2 Divine Offering
1 Karn Liberated
2 Celestial Purge
4 Lingering Souls
2 Devastation Tide
2 Noxious Revival
I scrapped the build though and have gone back to the drawing board. I'm basically heading back to a more Superfriend style build using more miracles, as it worked much better for me last night.
Signature by Syndarion from Aeternal Studios!
Mhmm Mhmm GET MONEY!!!
STD:
W RESTORATION ANGEL NAYARG
UWDelve into Angels !!! WU
Went 2-2-1 at GPMN before dropping. When this deck works, it's super fun and chugs along nicely. If it stinks, it SUCKS. Didn't help that I was geared as anti-aggro expecting RG and Delver everywhere... saw 4 Control decks. Was totally not expecting Venser Blink decks, which I faced twice.
List:
4 Feeling of Dread
3 Temporal Mastery
4 Terminus
4 Think Twice
4 Thought Scour
3 Mana Leak
2 Go For the Throat
1 Doom Blade
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
2 Gideon Jura
2 Negate
2 Divine Offering
1 Karn Liberated
2 Celestial Purge
4 Lingering Souls
2 Devastation Tide
2 Noxious Revival
Game 1 - RG Ramp 1-1 (1-0)
Match 1 - Mulled to 5 cards. Not a good excuse, but it wasn't pretty thanks to multiple Inkmoths. I could only hold them off for so long.
Match 2 - Drew a nice hand. I was able to win off of an Entreat x5 Miracle and he couldn't deal with my attack.
Match 3 - It was a good match, with a lot of back and forth between us. I'd Terminus when he had good board presence, he had Whipfare + Slagstorm for my angels. He was Beast Within'ing my Walkers, and between Gideon and Beast tokens I had him down to 3 life (me at 20) when we went to time. I'm confident had I not had to mull game 1, I could have locked it. I simply had way too many answers for his deck with Feeling of Dread (love this card) and Snapcastered Doom Blades.
Game 2 - Bant Turbofog 2-0 (1-0-1)
Game one - I really wasn't sure what he was up to. I killed him pretty quickly with Entreat Miracle, and had Mana Leak ready for a Fog.
Game two - He resolves a Rites of Flourishing and it becomes obvious he's Turbofog. Problem was, the enchantment helped me more than it helped him, and I resolved a Tamiyo and Emblemed her easily since he had no attackers. He tried resolving his own Entreat, but I had a counter for it. One nice trick I tried... Drownyard. Let me draw a ton with Tamiyo. I killed him with angels + Mastery, which helped off set any life gain he had rolling.
Game 3 - Esper Superfriends 0-2 (1-1-1)
Match 1 - Game one he was simply faster than I was, and resolved a Lingering Souls followed by Sorin. I kept him at bay for a while with Feeling of Dread, and Terminus. However once I resolved an Entreat, he had the DoJ ready and beat me with Gideon.
Match 2 - I had issues with mana early thanks to mulling to 6 and couldn't find a second W source for the Gideon and Terminus in my hand. I kept drawing cards I couldn't cast and soon he resolved a Tamiyo tapping down my only W source multiple turns. By the time I found a second, it was to late and I was beat down by tokens + Norn.
Match 4 - UW Venser 0-1 (1-2-1)
Game 1 - I had control for a while, and assumed it was just a standard UW control build. He resolves Venser + Stonehorn and I can't do anything to stop him from going Ult. By the time the game reached 35 mins, I figured that the only way I could beat it was one card NOT in my graveyard (a Gideon that he would just blow up with Venser). I scooped and wanted to get to game 2, where I figured I had a better shot beating him with my sideboard.
Game 2 - Now that I knew what to expect I was ready for him. I had counters and removal for dudes, but we went to time quickly. Because he won game 1 and had a soft lock when we went to time, I had no choice but take the loss.
Match 5 - UW Venser - 2-0 (2-2-1)
Game 1 - I recognized pretty quickly that this was an identical deck to what I just faced, so I tried to be much more aggressive. It helped, and I was able to bluff him a few times. He wasn't as technical of a player as the previous guy, but he slowly started gaining control. He had a soft Stonehorn/Venser lock on me, but I had a few angels ready and hit double Temporal Mastery for the win.
Game 2 - I brought in Lingering Souls which helped me peck away at him early. He was getting frustrated and tired, and I was able to outplay him after he missed some triggers. I got a massive Entreat off Miracle and won.
It was a 9 round tournament and confirmed with a judge or two that at my record, the only way I could Day 2 was off of ridiculous tiebreakers. I had played 4 control matches in a row that went to time, and I was hungry and tired and didn't want to to go through the motions for the rest of the night when I could get home and rest and go back tomorrow for side events.
Over all, I do love this deck, but was totally unprepared for two Venser decks in a row. With everyone freaking out of Delver and RG lately, I was more worried about those matches and just didn't have answers when I needed them versus control.
I didn't play horribly, but I certainly made some errors due to lack of practicing with the deck. It's a tricky one to play, and you have to be ready for some grindy games. One thing I found out was that it's that first round draw that really hurt me. Control players tend to go to time often, and end up in this zone of "tie bracket Control decks" that just sit and grind at it with each other all day. Had I known this I would have dropped earlier or faught a bit harder to avoid a tie round 1, esp after I heard the SCG Qualifier going on at the same time had only 16 people in it. Half the people walked away with cash.
I went home, re-assembled the following Superfriends build, and went back on Sunday.
3x Think Twice
2x Tragic Slip
2x Doom Blade
1x Go For the Throat
3x Mana Leak
1x Oblivion Ring
4x Lingering Souls
4x Terminus
3x Entreat the Angels
2x Sorin Lord of Innistrad
2x Gideon Jura
3x Tamiyo the Moon Sage
1x Temporal Mastery
2x Divine Offering
2x Temporal Mastery
2x Ratchet Bomb
1x Negate
1x Volition Reins
1x Revoke Existence
2x Celestial Purge
2x Day of Judgement
1x Lilianna of the Veil
1x Oblivion Ring
I ended up going into two Single Elimination Standard queues. First one I lost right away to Frites. Game one was a blowout and I had crap draws, Game two I had him on the ropes for most of the game. Unfortunately though the new RW ability land helped him ping me down to Bonfire territory.
Second Tournament went much better
Game 1 UW Miracles/Venserlock 2-1 (1-0)
Game one he got the lock and I wasn't able to shake him. But second game I drew like a champ and sided in my Temporal Masterys against him. They not only allowed me to "Explore" early game, but put me ahead in the Angel token war. I beat him down pretty quickly. Third game was a SLUGFEST. Back and forth, both of us digging for answers and pooping out tokens like crazy. For me, the extra sweepers made the difference, and I was able to win the topdeck war. He was a fantastic player that had Day 2'd the GP with this deck, and I asked him for the list to share.
Game 2 RWU Miracles 2-1 (2-0)
First game he Bonfired me for the win. Second game I had the team of Gideon/angels/souls and was able to finish him off quickly thanks to 2x Sorin emblems. Third game was the long one. I had a Tamiyo emblem and had 2 Entreat, 1 Terminus, 1 Mana Leak, 2 Lingering Souls in hand. I drew lands for SEVEN TURNS and he kept playing and replaying Batterskull. I eventually topdecked a Temporal Mastery for the win, but it was Vault of the Archangel that helped win this one. It took me out of Bonfire range and I had the game all but locked.
Unfortunately I had been playing Mana Leak wrong with the emblem, or I would have ended it much sooner. I was told on Saturday by some dude that when you play leak and the emblem is active... it doesn't return to your hand and stays on the stack when they pay 3. So I was under the impression that you couldn't "keep leaking." Once the game ended, everyone including the judges informed me that I could indeed return the Leak to my hand and keep playing it so long as I had the mana for it. This wouldnt have changed things in my GP performance, but would have cut my games down timewise in the side events.
Finals was someone playing that Kamikaze deck. We agreed to split since it was getting late.
I like both decks, but I still felt something was off in the end. So I'm going to build this, the Venser/Miracles deck I played against for tournament play:
3x Entreat the Angels
4x Temporal Mastery
3x Think Twice
3x Ponder
2x Thought Scour
3x Feeling of Dread
4x Stonehorn Dignitary
3x Tamiyo
2x Gideon
4x Seachrome Coast
4x Glacial Fortress
2x Ghost Quarter
9x Plains
7x Island
2x Dissipate
2x Revoke Existance
2x Celestial Purge
3x Timely Reinforcement
2x Snapcaster Mage
2x Day of Judgement
1x Batterskull
1x Feeling of Dread
It basically solves the mana issues of Superfriends, the "do nothing" of Miracles, and the fiddliness of the Venser decks. I think this is a perfect build, though I did make some changes. -3 Temporal Mastery (2 to board), -1 Plains, +2 Frost Titan, +2 O-ring... and changed the SB to include Karn and Reins and include some Mana Leaks.
So I think if Miracles are going to work, it has to be something a bit more as a complimentary package to something else. I'm convinced that Terminus needs to be a x4 and Entreat a x3 in any Esper control since they worked so well in both builds...
Tide is just junk. Worked great in block, but avoid it here. Any time I drew it at the GP I didn't want it because the game was grinding long enough that it wouldn't have done much that a Feeling of Dread or Tamiyo wouldn't have taken care of without setting myself behind as well.
Temporal Mastery I would leave in the sideboard for Control. It helps really grind them out, and allows for faster recovery. I don't think it does much against Aggro, but is worth bringing in as a main x1 IMO.
4x seachrome
11x island
6x plains
2x inkmoth nexua
4x Oblivion Ring
4x Feeling of dread
4x Think Twice
4x Though scour
4x Devestation Tide
4x Terminus
2x Temporal Mastery
3x Entreat the Angels
This is the list I'm currently working on and with all the tempo plays tends to do fairly well against all the aggro in the meta.
Follow the link for nice cheap clothing.
Playing:
Death's Shadow Jund
Played:
Kiki Chord, Zoo variants, Goblins, Burn
I was thinking of 2 Juras and 2 Tamiyo.
Also I've been wondering why Hayne didn't use dual lands?
Edit 2: Need also sideboarding advice. Paticularly against Wolf Run Ramp, R/G Aggro and U/w Delver.
I know Tide doesn't really work against Ramp and R/G Aggro since they have so much mana they can cast them again. I'm Guessing Day of Judgement could work, but still need advice. Thanks!
Standard
UR Control
Modern
Merfolk
Burn
Avacyn did nothing wrong!
Purify Innistrad!
#Purge
Gideon is a must. He's how you win games, esp if they surgically extract your Entreats. In fact I would say you need at least one other way to win as well just in case. Frost Titan, Batterskull, Sphinx, Venserlock, Sun Titan...
Based on my tournaments above, I like 3 Tami, 2 Jura
Block constructed. He was playing U/W
(I'm a fairly new player)
Standard
UR Control
Modern
Merfolk
Burn
Avacyn did nothing wrong!
Purify Innistrad!
#Purge
@chili... I'd have to see your list to give advice.
1x Snapcaster Mage
Spells(33)
4x Devastation Tide
4x Terminus
4x Think Twice
4x Thought Scour
3x Entreat the Angels
3x Feeling of Dread
3x Mana Leak
3x Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
3x Temporal Mastery
2x Gideon Jura
8x Island
8x Plains
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Seachrome Coast
2x Ghost Quarter
3x Timely Reinforcements
2x Celestial Purge
2x Divine Offering
2x Negate
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Flashfreeze
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Snapcaster Mage
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
1- Gideon is a MUST include.
2 - You need to consider a 3rd win condition besides angels and Gideon. If they extract one, you don't want to be panicing for the only other option you have. This and most lists only run 2 Extractions anyway. I would recomend Batterskull, Frost Titan, or find a way to encorporate the Venser Lock, like in the list above.
3 - Devastation Tide looks better on paper than in practice. It's only really great early game, so when you draw it late, it might be a dead card. Many decks quickly recover from this trick and can barf out their hand if you can't back it up with counters.
4 - Temporal Mastery is very tricky to play with. Keep practicing. In truth, I've moved all but one to the SB. It's REALLY good against control, not so much against Aggro. Sometimes you need it as an Explore, but sometimes you'll just want to put it into your hand and wait till you are about the go in for the kill and they are tapped out.
5 - Don't get too stuck on the "instant speed draw" thing. Remember, many times you'll be miracaling on your own turn. So a draw suite of 3 x Think Twice, 3-4 Ponder, and 2 Thought Scour is great. I ran 4 TS and 4 TT and always wished I had more digging power with Ponder.
6 - Feeling of Dread is the real deal. 3-4 maindeck for sure.
7 - Don't be scared of Caverns. 3-4 Leaks are a must.
8 - Tamiyo's Ultimate is very very tricky. People will question what you can actually do with the trick. Talk to a judge and make sure you understand. The Ultamite + Leak in hand + enough mana means you have won the game. Don't get cute and keep trying to do crazy stuff... you'll end up screwing up something and dragging the game on too long. As long as you have things in your hand to do, you're going to win. The Thought Scour "mill them to death" is too risky. Don't mess with it. Fill YOUR hand with it, and keep them from doing anything until they scoop or until you can ping them away with your creatures. Ghost Quarter is brutal as well... pack at least 1-2 in your main build.
9 - Terminus IS AWESOME. 4 main. If you must run DoJ, put them in the SB as a 2 of.
This is just opinion, but based on grinding many games at GPMIN both in the main event and in side events. Personally, I think you need more than "just miracles" to make it work. Read my tournament report above and see what I mean.