Solar Flare is a manageable matchup if you don't blow your wad. Ratchet Bomb can be played around: Curse of Death's Hold cannot. In the SB, you just want Manabarbs. Lots of them. Power out and play multiples if necessary. But yea, the matchup is comically bad. Sometimes you just have to pray for the right matchups. Christian Calcano is the first to admit his U/R Dlever would have never made it if he saw even a single Wolf Run ramp.
For Bonfire, thankfully our weapon against it is the same as our weapon against Snag, graveyard hate, and Delver: Mental Misstep. Expect to see and need this card. A lot. If you're still playing white, you have Stony Silence, but if not, I don't know.
I'm tempted to do something bizarre and hilarious with the SB, which is overload on Manabarbs and Trading Posts, and turn it into some kind of insane mono red stasis.
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Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
I had no idea that this thread took off so much! This is still my funsies deck, I swapped in Krenko's Command for Gathers and changed the board but still just have AJ Kerrigan's build from my op. I'm going to stick with that one, the idea of a ritual-based combo deck that abuses PiF in Standard is just too awesome for me to pass up(and is very worthy of exclamation marks in the title) , so I won't be cutting PiF/Plunge/etc like a lot of the (probably better) decks here. Also I really do find that that build still works really well.
For some of you it looks like this is your real deck, though (which is awesome, don't get me wrong), and I see that there are lots of very different builds now, so if one of the top posters (Topper?) wants me to edit the OP into some kind of Primer just write it up and I'll swap it in.
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Standard: Humanimator
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Thanks for the thought Dscherli. I'd like to hopefully gather some wins tonight though. If it's successful, and at least moderately playable, then I'll say put it up, but I think the deck's flaws are still being ironed out.
For example, after trying mono red, I realized quickly that Infernal Plunge is simply never good: sorry. I think this card needs to be cut if you want to hit your combo. It has anti-synergy with our combo (one less bolt), especially when you factor in how often your creatures are killed. This is one of the reasons why I really liked Goblin Grenade in theory, but Grenade and Plunge in the same deck where you need creatures to combo just didn't mix well. Past in Flames is another card I don't think is necessary. Sometimes I'll have to discard it, and in order to use it, need to hit a Battle Hymn to have more than five mana....for what? To flashback blanks (Rebirth rarely has a target once it's in the graveyard), and over costed spells (like Stake)?
I'm curious how games play out for others. What do you typically flashback with your Past in Flames? How often are your Rebirths empty from artifacts? When you loot, what do you discard when you don't have a Past in Flames?
Not trying to be a douche here, but these cards have been terrible for me in playtesting. Most of the cards in this deck already need other cards in order to work...Past in Flames needs yet another goldfish draw, and that's assuming you've even got enough to cast it. Which also assumes you have enough creatures on board since every ritual effect requires them.
I'm sticking with mono red, but the new list is gonna be quite different, and report later. One of the necessary additions: Bonfire of the Damned.
It needs to be mainboarded, no questions asked. Normally a combo deck needs to be as proactive as possible, but a lot of times an opponent can just sit back on creatures, and if we can't get early damage, then a single Burn at the Stake is not enough. BOTD allows you to push extra damage through if you can wipe some of their board, and deals them damage as well, which is usually all the difference. If you can fuel one off a Battle Hymn, then you probably don't even need a Stake.
I'm running 2 in the MB, and haven't looked back. This also frees the SB for more space.
Also, if you're still going with mono red Kuldotha, you need at least ten artifacts. I'm still interested in a version with Talrand, but for now, I'm enjoying this mono red version, because I find Phyrexia's Core to be fairly crucial when I can't find Rebirths for a sac engine for the Wellsprings (4 Ichors, and 2 Mycosynths and don't look back).
Didn't mean to ramble, but I think there's room for improvement, and it seems like this deck can go in a number of different directions.
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Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
Not much to report, as I got a bye the second round, and didn't play any established decks in my two wins. The loss was to B/W tokens. Turn 4 in game 2 after winning the first game, he was able to deal me 16 damage with 3 enchantments out...with me at 16 and combo in hand. Heh.
Bonfire is the real deal in this deck. One of the biggest problems I've had is losing the race against aggro, as they're typically free to swing since I don't want to waste creatures on chump blocking when they're required fuel for BATS. And hellkite was awesome from the SB. I'm starting to think he needs to go in the mainboard.
I can't say much about the list though. I was definitely in the game against B/W tokens, but I haven't had the chance to play against established decks otherwise.
I'm starting to realize so long as I'm not playing Past in Flames, the build I have would probably prefer Wild Guess to Faithless Looting. I realize Past in Flames solves the problem of discarding stuff you want, but I've already said my peace on Past in Flames, which I think belongs in another build. It'll probably screw with my curve as well, but this deck needs to do a better chop of protecting the player, which it doesn't. We either combo and kill them, or we look for our combo, and die before hitting it.
Perhaps it's the rock player in me, but I think it's possible to include a few 'reactive' cards in the 60.
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Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
I realize getting 4 Bonfires may be an issue for some, but this isn't the budget forum. Bonfire is easily the best spell red has, and one of the best spells in the format, period. We'd be wise to play it.
It's pretty much always relevant, either early from beatdown, or late in dealing enough damage. And it doubles as an alternate win condition, combined with being a form of control where we would otherwise be at the mercy of aggro.
This build is obviously a little different, but I hope more stable. I'm also upping the land count since that has been critical in every match I've lost (even in victory, a lot of these matches go to 3, which I'm not keen on).
Anyway, just my opinion. I'm not even sure mono red is the best version of what we want to build, but hopefully through testing, we can figure out what that 'best version' is.
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Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
Honestly, I don't like that list. I have never liked Chancellor of the Forge, he doesn't do enough.
Also, 19 lands seems excessive. Storm in Modern plays 16 lands and it's very consistent. I wouldn't play more than 18, above that seems WAY too much. Yeah, there's a 7 drop but you play rituals. You cut the Infernal Plunge too, which I think is wrong. Yeah, I know it's at odds with the deck, but you need to mana accelerate.
Also, I don't like cutting Past in Flames OR Faithless Looting. In a deck that wants to draw 3 specific cards, you need to be digging. If you're actually not playing them, you have the chance of being blown out before you even get to see a Burn at the Stake. I've been playing mine with Increasing Vengeance, so when I go off, I can flashback it with a Battle Hymn and get lots of mana out of it.
I'm even tempted to splash blue for Thought Scour. It's REALLY good in Modern Storm, a deck I have some experience with. Enough for me to consider playing it in this deck. So far, Wild Guess has been lackluster and I would rather play Reforge the Soul.
Unfortunately we don't have access to the cards that make Modern storm so good, and that allow it to cut so many lands to begin with. Part of this is our mana base, which sucks in Standard.
Even worse, our rituals rely on already establishing board position. The mediocre players may ignore the 1/1's, but not smart players. They'll doom blade and gut shot goblins if they have to. This makes cards like Battle Hymn less effective, but it makes a card like Infernal Plunge even worse. And this goes back to my original question: why do we need so much acceleration? One Stake can be enough.
Our combo costs five: a lot of times hitting your land drops is enough.
Chancellor has always been a gamble. If he's in your opening hand, he's good and fuels your Hymns, which can then hard cast him for close to lethal. If he's not, no big loss, and perhaps he'll swing big later, or he can be discarded. You don't want to discard a card because you can't play it, but that's why I'm trying Wild Guess, and no Looting. For Past in Flames, I ask again: What do you typically flashback with your Past in Flames? How often are your Rebirths empty from artifacts? When you loot, what do you discard when you don't have a Past in Flames? Do you find yourself hard casting it a lot? How much damage do you typically deal from a Past in Flames, and how quick?
Nobody else has been reporting, so I honestly don't know how PIF tends to work for others. When I tried, these were the problems I had, but to be honest, I haven't had the opportunity to test other versions besides AJ's original list, which was way too inconsistent for my taste. I think the builds I've been trying have felt more stable, but not near as strong.
I'm gonna start testing with blue if the mono-red falters, but I haven't had enough experience to either scrap it, or keep polishing it.
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Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
I really think Chancellor is greedy. If you're playing the deck for the casualz then maybe, but if we're really trying to tune this competitively, we don't want it imho.
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Temporarily retired from the game
Thanks a bunch to Rivenor from Miraculous Recovery Signatures for the awesome sigpic!
If it copies the spell, doesn't it copy the conditional effect, which can't be replicated for damage per Burn at the Stake's ability? I'm pretty sure that doesn't work, in the same way you can't Twincast a Natural Order unless you have two creatures to sac.
From the Gatherer rulings:
You can't choose to pay any additional costs for the copy. However, effects based on any additional costs that were paid for the original spell are copied as though those same costs were paid for the copy too. For example, if a player sacrifices a 3/3 creature to cast Fling, and you copy it with Reverberate, the copy of Fling will also deal 3 damage to its target.
I'm trying out Increasing Vengeance, and its quite versatile: it can be an extra token generator, an extra ritual or help protect your killcon from counterspells. Don't know if it's necessary in the MB, but seens like a solid SB option
I absolutely hated Chancellor. He is definitely way too greedy. The worst part is that I was annoyed he was in my opening hand. He becomes a card I want to keep but can't use for a while. He also rarely wins games, there's enough removal for him in the format.
Without enough draw, I found I didn't consistently get to a Burn at the Stake. If it's turn 7 and all I've done is made 5 Goblins, it's not going well. I played against a terrible mono green deck and lost cause I just didn't get there by turn 7 or something. Some storm decks play as few as 2 Grapeshots and then just get there. Yeah, their draw is miles better, they can draw their whole deck on turn 2 30% of the time, but it's just the point I'm making.
Faithless Looting is great with PiF. You get to fill the yard an then flash it back for R. I'm definitely enjoying PiF with Increasing Vengeance, because it becomes 2 copies for RR. Oh, I Battle Hymn for 4? Now I'll go to +8 mana instead of +2. You can even copy cards like Krenko's Command or Wild Guess to draw 6.
After playing it a few times, it's just not going to get there, in my opinion. It doesn't have good enough rituals and is too prone to removal. You have to combo out in two turns to even have a chance, and that's very hard, plus you give them a chance to do things. If you're going off in one turn, you should already be dead.
What does removal have to do with Chancellor? If he hits the board, he's already done his job.
Anyway, am I the only idiot taking this deck to FNM's or something?
Heh. Got smashed today, going with a more traditional build that ran a few Plunges, and 3 Past in Flames (no Chancellors, though I hate to see him go). Very similar to AJ's build, but mono red, basically.
First match against U/B zombies, my Rebirth tokens would get tragic slipped, and Mortarpod ensured that my Hymns and Plunges were worthless while getting beatdown by Gravecrawlers. Then I played Esper Midrange, and lost to Day of Judgment because the combo couldn't get there quick enough. I wish I had gone with my four maindecked Bonfire list, but whatever (or the R/W, which at least gives us Timely). You live, learn, and playtest.
Burn at the Stake is a card that is more like Overrun rather than Grapeshot, which is what I think we've been trying to do. I keep thinking there's still potential, but I'm gonna start testing another deck, and wait to see if Ravnica nets Past in Flames something more interesting in the meantime.
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Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
I am currently playing a mono-red Past in flames version and honestly it runs VERY well.
The only things that kill me Pre-sideboard are Thalia and Grafdiggers Cage(which NO ONE runs mainboard), after the side, I can get aroudn them pretty easy with Ancient Grudge and Devil's Play.
The deck is nasty though, so long as I have 2 lands, I can usually trigger and just overwhelm them. Counters are not to bad since I can still cast them again with my past in flames.
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This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
@Topper: Your issues with the deck are essentially the reasons why I'm sticking to RW and trying to essentially combo out in a single turn to avoid sorcery speed answers your opponents may have.
When you are waiting for a one turn kill Past in Flames is almost always necessary to combo out, barring a very good draw, but there are times it's still not enough. Either too few creatures, not enough mana, or no kill spell just leaves me dead to their next turn.
I've read a few lists of Burning Vengeance decks and they appear to whittle people down one or two flashback spells per turn, mostly with spells that have flashback. I'm thinking I could use the tokens and Battle Hymn and yes Infernal Plunge with Past in Flames and Burning Vengeance instead of BATS.
The deck is nasty though, so long as I have 2 lands, I can usually trigger and just overwhelm them. Counters are not to bad since I can still cast them again with my past in flames.
2 lands? What exactly is your line of play that overwhelms your opponent with only two lands?
Somebody can answer me the question that some post before I wrote?
Turn 1: Mountain, Memnite, Kuldotha rebirth (3 tokens)
Turn 2: Mountain, Krenko command (5 tokens), Atack with the 3 tokens (17 life)
Turn 3: Mountain, Memnite, Battle Hymn, Burn at the stake 18 points.
End
You can expect a hand like this probably one in every 50 hands or so. Evenoire suggested he can usually trigger and overwhelm them with only two lands in play.
Even the hand you suggested didn't take into account the roadblocks your opponents can put up. Mana Leak being the very tricky one to play around.
And the second hability of Chandra, the Firebrand?
It just copies a spell, nothing to special. I do like having Increasing Vengeance, but at 4 mana, she is just a win-more card. The biggest problem this deck has is not having enough ritual cards, but Increasing Vengeance gets to act as the 5th-8th copy, or a Krenko's Command when you need it. Don't forget that if you pay additional costs, Increasing Vengeance copies that cost, so you don't discard extra to Dangerous Wager, can copy a Burn at the Stake for lethal or to get around a counter, and can copy things like Kuldotha Rebirth.
It's hilarious, but too easily disrupted. The problem is consistency. Until they print something that makes this deck more consistent, there's little reason to play it. A better ritual than Infernal Plunge might do it. The problem is you need to play so many cards that you can't really find room for Ponder, which I think absolutely belongs in this deck.
I played this deck today at fnm, and did reasonably well. Went 2-2, and lost one match to a silly mistake. Both losses went 3 games.
match 1: b/w tokens w/ blood artist - win
game 1, slow, comboed out around turn 7, all stars were gitaxian probe and noxious revival to put a wellspring on top of library, draw it, and sac to flashbacked rebirth for enough mana to battle hymn twice -> draw spells -> burn at the stake for 21
game 2, combo at turn 5, took minimal damage.
match 2: u/b artist zombies - Loss
Game 1, I lose, comboed out, but ended up with 4 mana by the time I got BatS without another hymn, lost next turn to killing wave
Game 2: getting beat down, play gather the townsfolk for fate hour, hymn, past in flames, fate hour townsfolke again, hymn, BatS in hand for win, 30 damage (Opponent was shocked! gotta love it!)
Game 3: get stuck with 2 hymns, a rebirth in hand, no sac targets. discarded both past in flames by accident lol, meant to keep one. I coulda combo'd off if I didnt derp here.
Match 3: Mono White angel lifegain - lose
This deck made me sad to lose to, because it wasn't overly competitive
game 1: he gains life up to 47 life. I combo out but cant get more than 42 damage, I lose
Game 2: Had a really good hand, hit him for 3 with goblins, made 3 more, and BatS for 18 on turn 4 or 5, Yay
Game 3, see game 3 against u/b artists
Match 4: psychosis crawler mono u architect - win
game 1: long and dragged out. Topdeck a BatS the turn i needed to
game 2: see game 2 vs mono white lifegain
singleton sulphur falls helped two times to save life on a gitaxian probe, and didn't cause any problems
I avoided reforge the soul, due to the sheer number of cards you go through, and I didn't want to miss the miracle all day. Opted for wild guess, which did pretty good, but the rr cost was a hindrance once or twice but not gamebreaking.
I could probably go mono red, but I love the fateful hour on gather the townsfolk, which really helped me, and drawing cards off origin spellbomb was great, even if I sacced the myr to kuldotha rebirth.
mycosynth was pretty good, but I wouldnt go above 2. I got way more value out of the ichor wellsprings
I originally had infernal plunge in the decklist as a 2 of, but I removed it during testing before I went to fnm (glad I did). It just felt too clunky, although I really wish there was another ritual available.
I didn't have a sideboard, but when I was going through possibilities, War report seemed like a good inclusion to buffer your life, and save tokens for a lethal BatS that wouldnt have been otherwise if I blocked.
The single devil's play let me kill something once, but I was underwhelmed by it (is underwhelmed a word?)
Not sure what I would even take out for sideboard cards, since I feel the whole deck is one big engine. If there was a way to smooth draws, or increase consistency, I think this deck could be very strong. Something like crystal ball would be nice.
I'm sure you know this but Past in Flames has flashback itself so unless that one mana screwed you (it could have) discarding Part in Flames is often a card I can afford to discard.
I'm sure you know this but Past in Flames has flashback itself so unless that one mana screwed you (it could have) discarding Part in Flames is often a card I can afford to discard.
*shoots self in head*
I borrowed half the cards to play this, and practiced with proxies. Reading is tech I guess! ....
New player here. I picked up a set of Kuldotha Rebirth I didnt see that you had to sac a artifact to play the card. Is there any way to play the card with out sacing a artifact or do you have to?
How dose reverberate work? dont know how the whole copy thing work. What would be a good artifact to sac? looking for something I can play for a while.
Reverberate copies a spell you or an opponent played. If it was a spell with an x in teh cost, the x cost is copied too. hypothetically if you had 5 mana, you could play ichor wellspring, sac it to kuldotha rebirth, and play reverberate to copy the rebirth. You wont have to sacrifice another artifact because you already paid the cost. If you are looking for a way to avoid paying the artifact cost to play, there aren't many ways to do that.
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For Bonfire, thankfully our weapon against it is the same as our weapon against Snag, graveyard hate, and Delver: Mental Misstep. Expect to see and need this card. A lot. If you're still playing white, you have Stony Silence, but if not, I don't know.
I'm tempted to do something bizarre and hilarious with the SB, which is overload on Manabarbs and Trading Posts, and turn it into some kind of insane mono red stasis.
Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
For some of you it looks like this is your real deck, though (which is awesome, don't get me wrong), and I see that there are lots of very different builds now, so if one of the top posters (Topper?) wants me to edit the OP into some kind of Primer just write it up and I'll swap it in.
Modern: Jund, Wafo-Tapa UWR
Legacy: Witch-Maw Stoneblade
EDH: Ruhan of the Fomori, Hazezon Tamar, Maga, Traitor to Mortals
For example, after trying mono red, I realized quickly that Infernal Plunge is simply never good: sorry. I think this card needs to be cut if you want to hit your combo. It has anti-synergy with our combo (one less bolt), especially when you factor in how often your creatures are killed. This is one of the reasons why I really liked Goblin Grenade in theory, but Grenade and Plunge in the same deck where you need creatures to combo just didn't mix well. Past in Flames is another card I don't think is necessary. Sometimes I'll have to discard it, and in order to use it, need to hit a Battle Hymn to have more than five mana....for what? To flashback blanks (Rebirth rarely has a target once it's in the graveyard), and over costed spells (like Stake)?
I'm curious how games play out for others. What do you typically flashback with your Past in Flames? How often are your Rebirths empty from artifacts? When you loot, what do you discard when you don't have a Past in Flames?
Not trying to be a douche here, but these cards have been terrible for me in playtesting. Most of the cards in this deck already need other cards in order to work...Past in Flames needs yet another goldfish draw, and that's assuming you've even got enough to cast it. Which also assumes you have enough creatures on board since every ritual effect requires them.
I'm sticking with mono red, but the new list is gonna be quite different, and report later. One of the necessary additions: Bonfire of the Damned.
It needs to be mainboarded, no questions asked. Normally a combo deck needs to be as proactive as possible, but a lot of times an opponent can just sit back on creatures, and if we can't get early damage, then a single Burn at the Stake is not enough. BOTD allows you to push extra damage through if you can wipe some of their board, and deals them damage as well, which is usually all the difference. If you can fuel one off a Battle Hymn, then you probably don't even need a Stake.
I'm running 2 in the MB, and haven't looked back. This also frees the SB for more space.
Also, if you're still going with mono red Kuldotha, you need at least ten artifacts. I'm still interested in a version with Talrand, but for now, I'm enjoying this mono red version, because I find Phyrexia's Core to be fairly crucial when I can't find Rebirths for a sac engine for the Wellsprings (4 Ichors, and 2 Mycosynths and don't look back).
Didn't mean to ramble, but I think there's room for improvement, and it seems like this deck can go in a number of different directions.
Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
Not much to report, as I got a bye the second round, and didn't play any established decks in my two wins. The loss was to B/W tokens. Turn 4 in game 2 after winning the first game, he was able to deal me 16 damage with 3 enchantments out...with me at 16 and combo in hand. Heh.
Here was my decklist for the night:
4 Phyrexia's Core
14 Mountain
Creature
4 Chancellor of the Forge
Artifact
4 Memnite
4 Ichor Wellspring
2 Mycosynth Wellspring
Instant
4 Battle Hymn
4 Faithless Looting
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Reforge the Soul
4 Kuldotha Rebirth
4 Krenko's Command
3 Burn at the Stake
2 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Gut Shot
3 Mental Misstep
3 Pillar of Flame
1 Blasphemous Act
Bonfire is the real deal in this deck. One of the biggest problems I've had is losing the race against aggro, as they're typically free to swing since I don't want to waste creatures on chump blocking when they're required fuel for BATS. And hellkite was awesome from the SB. I'm starting to think he needs to go in the mainboard.
I can't say much about the list though. I was definitely in the game against B/W tokens, but I haven't had the chance to play against established decks otherwise.
I'm starting to realize so long as I'm not playing Past in Flames, the build I have would probably prefer Wild Guess to Faithless Looting. I realize Past in Flames solves the problem of discarding stuff you want, but I've already said my peace on Past in Flames, which I think belongs in another build. It'll probably screw with my curve as well, but this deck needs to do a better chop of protecting the player, which it doesn't. We either combo and kill them, or we look for our combo, and die before hitting it.
Perhaps it's the rock player in me, but I think it's possible to include a few 'reactive' cards in the 60.
Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
4 Phyrexia's Core
15 Mountain
Creatures
4 Chancellor of the Forge
Artifact
4 Mennite
4 Ichor Wellspring
2 Mycosynth Wellspring
4 Battle Hymn
Sorcery
3 Burn at the Stake
4 Bonfire of the Damned
4 Kuldotha Rebirth
4 Krenko's Command
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Wild Guess
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Gut Shot
3 Mental Misstep
2 Manabarbs
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
2 Smelt
I realize getting 4 Bonfires may be an issue for some, but this isn't the budget forum. Bonfire is easily the best spell red has, and one of the best spells in the format, period. We'd be wise to play it.
It's pretty much always relevant, either early from beatdown, or late in dealing enough damage. And it doubles as an alternate win condition, combined with being a form of control where we would otherwise be at the mercy of aggro.
This build is obviously a little different, but I hope more stable. I'm also upping the land count since that has been critical in every match I've lost (even in victory, a lot of these matches go to 3, which I'm not keen on).
Anyway, just my opinion. I'm not even sure mono red is the best version of what we want to build, but hopefully through testing, we can figure out what that 'best version' is.
Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
Honestly, I don't like that list. I have never liked Chancellor of the Forge, he doesn't do enough.
Also, 19 lands seems excessive. Storm in Modern plays 16 lands and it's very consistent. I wouldn't play more than 18, above that seems WAY too much. Yeah, there's a 7 drop but you play rituals. You cut the Infernal Plunge too, which I think is wrong. Yeah, I know it's at odds with the deck, but you need to mana accelerate.
Also, I don't like cutting Past in Flames OR Faithless Looting. In a deck that wants to draw 3 specific cards, you need to be digging. If you're actually not playing them, you have the chance of being blown out before you even get to see a Burn at the Stake. I've been playing mine with Increasing Vengeance, so when I go off, I can flashback it with a Battle Hymn and get lots of mana out of it.
I'm even tempted to splash blue for Thought Scour. It's REALLY good in Modern Storm, a deck I have some experience with. Enough for me to consider playing it in this deck. So far, Wild Guess has been lackluster and I would rather play Reforge the Soul.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Unfortunately we don't have access to the cards that make Modern storm so good, and that allow it to cut so many lands to begin with. Part of this is our mana base, which sucks in Standard.
Even worse, our rituals rely on already establishing board position. The mediocre players may ignore the 1/1's, but not smart players. They'll doom blade and gut shot goblins if they have to. This makes cards like Battle Hymn less effective, but it makes a card like Infernal Plunge even worse. And this goes back to my original question: why do we need so much acceleration? One Stake can be enough.
Our combo costs five: a lot of times hitting your land drops is enough.
Chancellor has always been a gamble. If he's in your opening hand, he's good and fuels your Hymns, which can then hard cast him for close to lethal. If he's not, no big loss, and perhaps he'll swing big later, or he can be discarded. You don't want to discard a card because you can't play it, but that's why I'm trying Wild Guess, and no Looting. For Past in Flames, I ask again: What do you typically flashback with your Past in Flames? How often are your Rebirths empty from artifacts? When you loot, what do you discard when you don't have a Past in Flames? Do you find yourself hard casting it a lot? How much damage do you typically deal from a Past in Flames, and how quick?
Nobody else has been reporting, so I honestly don't know how PIF tends to work for others. When I tried, these were the problems I had, but to be honest, I haven't had the opportunity to test other versions besides AJ's original list, which was way too inconsistent for my taste. I think the builds I've been trying have felt more stable, but not near as strong.
I'm gonna start testing with blue if the mono-red falters, but I haven't had enough experience to either scrap it, or keep polishing it.
Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
Temporarily retired from the game
Thanks a bunch to Rivenor from Miraculous Recovery Signatures for the awesome sigpic!
Rage quit reason of the moment:
From the Gatherer rulings:
I'm trying out Increasing Vengeance, and its quite versatile: it can be an extra token generator, an extra ritual or help protect your killcon from counterspells. Don't know if it's necessary in the MB, but seens like a solid SB option
Without enough draw, I found I didn't consistently get to a Burn at the Stake. If it's turn 7 and all I've done is made 5 Goblins, it's not going well. I played against a terrible mono green deck and lost cause I just didn't get there by turn 7 or something. Some storm decks play as few as 2 Grapeshots and then just get there. Yeah, their draw is miles better, they can draw their whole deck on turn 2 30% of the time, but it's just the point I'm making.
Faithless Looting is great with PiF. You get to fill the yard an then flash it back for R. I'm definitely enjoying PiF with Increasing Vengeance, because it becomes 2 copies for RR. Oh, I Battle Hymn for 4? Now I'll go to +8 mana instead of +2. You can even copy cards like Krenko's Command or Wild Guess to draw 6.
After playing it a few times, it's just not going to get there, in my opinion. It doesn't have good enough rituals and is too prone to removal. You have to combo out in two turns to even have a chance, and that's very hard, plus you give them a chance to do things. If you're going off in one turn, you should already be dead.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Anyway, am I the only idiot taking this deck to FNM's or something?
Heh. Got smashed today, going with a more traditional build that ran a few Plunges, and 3 Past in Flames (no Chancellors, though I hate to see him go). Very similar to AJ's build, but mono red, basically.
First match against U/B zombies, my Rebirth tokens would get tragic slipped, and Mortarpod ensured that my Hymns and Plunges were worthless while getting beatdown by Gravecrawlers. Then I played Esper Midrange, and lost to Day of Judgment because the combo couldn't get there quick enough. I wish I had gone with my four maindecked Bonfire list, but whatever (or the R/W, which at least gives us Timely). You live, learn, and playtest.
Burn at the Stake is a card that is more like Overrun rather than Grapeshot, which is what I think we've been trying to do. I keep thinking there's still potential, but I'm gonna start testing another deck, and wait to see if Ravnica nets Past in Flames something more interesting in the meantime.
Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
The only things that kill me Pre-sideboard are Thalia and Grafdiggers Cage(which NO ONE runs mainboard), after the side, I can get aroudn them pretty easy with Ancient Grudge and Devil's Play.
The deck is nasty though, so long as I have 2 lands, I can usually trigger and just overwhelm them. Counters are not to bad since I can still cast them again with my past in flames.
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
When you are waiting for a one turn kill Past in Flames is almost always necessary to combo out, barring a very good draw, but there are times it's still not enough. Either too few creatures, not enough mana, or no kill spell just leaves me dead to their next turn.
I've read a few lists of Burning Vengeance decks and they appear to whittle people down one or two flashback spells per turn, mostly with spells that have flashback. I'm thinking I could use the tokens and Battle Hymn and yes Infernal Plunge with Past in Flames and Burning Vengeance instead of BATS.
2 lands? What exactly is your line of play that overwhelms your opponent with only two lands?
You can expect a hand like this probably one in every 50 hands or so. Evenoire suggested he can usually trigger and overwhelm them with only two lands in play.
Even the hand you suggested didn't take into account the roadblocks your opponents can put up. Mana Leak being the very tricky one to play around.
It just copies a spell, nothing to special. I do like having Increasing Vengeance, but at 4 mana, she is just a win-more card. The biggest problem this deck has is not having enough ritual cards, but Increasing Vengeance gets to act as the 5th-8th copy, or a Krenko's Command when you need it. Don't forget that if you pay additional costs, Increasing Vengeance copies that cost, so you don't discard extra to Dangerous Wager, can copy a Burn at the Stake for lethal or to get around a counter, and can copy things like Kuldotha Rebirth.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
match 1: b/w tokens w/ blood artist - win
game 1, slow, comboed out around turn 7, all stars were gitaxian probe and noxious revival to put a wellspring on top of library, draw it, and sac to flashbacked rebirth for enough mana to battle hymn twice -> draw spells -> burn at the stake for 21
game 2, combo at turn 5, took minimal damage.
match 2: u/b artist zombies - Loss
Game 1, I lose, comboed out, but ended up with 4 mana by the time I got BatS without another hymn, lost next turn to killing wave
Game 2: getting beat down, play gather the townsfolk for fate hour, hymn, past in flames, fate hour townsfolke again, hymn, BatS in hand for win, 30 damage (Opponent was shocked! gotta love it!)
Game 3: get stuck with 2 hymns, a rebirth in hand, no sac targets. discarded both past in flames by accident lol, meant to keep one. I coulda combo'd off if I didnt derp here.
Match 3: Mono White angel lifegain - lose
This deck made me sad to lose to, because it wasn't overly competitive
game 1: he gains life up to 47 life. I combo out but cant get more than 42 damage, I lose
Game 2: Had a really good hand, hit him for 3 with goblins, made 3 more, and BatS for 18 on turn 4 or 5, Yay
Game 3, see game 3 against u/b artists
Match 4: psychosis crawler mono u architect - win
game 1: long and dragged out. Topdeck a BatS the turn i needed to
game 2: see game 2 vs mono white lifegain
Decklist
4x Faithless Looting
4x Wild Guess
4x Battle Hymn
2x Past in flames
3x Burn at the stake
4x Gitaxian Probe
2x Noxious Revival
4x Kuldotha Rebirth
4x Gather the townsfolk
1x Devil's Play
4x Ichor Wellspring
2x Mycosynth Wellspring
4x Origin Spellbomb
land
4x Clifftop Retreat
8x Mountain
1x Sulphur Falls
4x Plains
singleton sulphur falls helped two times to save life on a gitaxian probe, and didn't cause any problems
I avoided reforge the soul, due to the sheer number of cards you go through, and I didn't want to miss the miracle all day. Opted for wild guess, which did pretty good, but the rr cost was a hindrance once or twice but not gamebreaking.
I could probably go mono red, but I love the fateful hour on gather the townsfolk, which really helped me, and drawing cards off origin spellbomb was great, even if I sacced the myr to kuldotha rebirth.
mycosynth was pretty good, but I wouldnt go above 2. I got way more value out of the ichor wellsprings
I originally had infernal plunge in the decklist as a 2 of, but I removed it during testing before I went to fnm (glad I did). It just felt too clunky, although I really wish there was another ritual available.
I didn't have a sideboard, but when I was going through possibilities, War report seemed like a good inclusion to buffer your life, and save tokens for a lethal BatS that wouldnt have been otherwise if I blocked.
The single devil's play let me kill something once, but I was underwhelmed by it (is underwhelmed a word?)
Not sure what I would even take out for sideboard cards, since I feel the whole deck is one big engine. If there was a way to smooth draws, or increase consistency, I think this deck could be very strong. Something like crystal ball would be nice.
*shoots self in head*
I borrowed half the cards to play this, and practiced with proxies. Reading is tech I guess! ....
Reverberate copies a spell you or an opponent played. If it was a spell with an x in teh cost, the x cost is copied too. hypothetically if you had 5 mana, you could play ichor wellspring, sac it to kuldotha rebirth, and play reverberate to copy the rebirth. You wont have to sacrifice another artifact because you already paid the cost. If you are looking for a way to avoid paying the artifact cost to play, there aren't many ways to do that.