Is there any reason no one has considered Thatcher revolt? It pumps Champ, and swings for 2-3.
You can't just simply throw in Thatcher's Revolt and call it good. You have to build a deck around that card because the tokens go away at the end of the turn. If all you're using it for is a quick pump to champ to and attack you are wasting space in the deck. Cuz a larger percentage of the time you won't have that convenient synergy on the field.
You should want to be able to use the revolt at anytime to gain the upper hand. Many of the best combos that can be done with it don't happen until after turn 5. When you can use it after a hellrider or hero of bladehold are already on the field. Or at the very least you should have played an anthem(honor of the pure or something with battlecry, accorder paladin) effect before.
Thatcher's revolt by itself is terrible. If only being used to benefit champion its marginally decent.
How do we feel about Nearheath Pilgrim? Wescoe tested him out in Haunted Humans and it seems to really improve the delver matchup. I kinda want to try 2 of them in the sideboard tonight.
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How do we feel about Nearheath Pilgrim? Wescoe tested him out in Haunted Humans and it seems to really improve the delver matchup. I kinda want to try 2 of them in the sideboard tonight.
I like it, though I don't what would be worth taking out for it from my list. Even in the side it's a tough choice. But the potential amount of life gain and damage being done to the opponent can sometimes make people despair when they see the life difference.
Also has anyone tried using Manabarbs against Esper control or Ramp match ups?
In BR Zombies its indespensible in the SB.
This is my current build tested it out today a little. Liked the way it was flowing.
After testing around I feel that Stormblood Berserker and Brimstone Volley slow down and hurt the deck more than it helps, mana spent casting them is better spent on Slayers' Stronghold activation. Stronghold adds a huge boost and dimension to the deck that I didn't really consider as valueable until actually playing. With 6mana open I was able to drop a crusader and attack for 10damage in a single turn. That kind of explosiveness is what really makes this deck shine.
On the debate of Silverblade vs Crusader. I say if you have them use both of them. Neither of them are ever a dead card and most of the time if you have one or the other you are happy with whats about to happen.
Angelic Destiny is always best used on a double striker IMO. And with so many available the way I built the deck having one in hand is almost always I sure fire win to victory.
I don't understand the hate that Elite Inquisitor gets. 2CMC for 2/2, first strike, vigilance, pro-zombies, vampires, and werewolves. How is that ever a "bad" creature? He wrecks zombies, laughs at huntmaster, and hoses other aggro decks. I have 2 MB and I'm considering moving that one Zealous into the side to add a 3rd. And as far as the whole "what about vs delver", he does fairly well against delver too unless they have a sword out... but in that case, there is a sword out!!
Hi guys here's my revamped list Also if anyone has comments regarding good sideboarding I would love to see some ideas as I am having trouble with it. Deck is great though, just went 4-0 at my local stores standard tourney beating Burning Vengeance, Delver, B/W Tokens and Hexproof-Bant.
Ok so I've been having alot of success with RW humans recently but my current sideboard is embarassing, so embarassing that I'm not posting it and starting from scratch. Here is my list.
I agree that the synergy between Champion and Berserker is weird but the only other relevant 2 drop creature I could see running would be accorder paladin and the Berserker is just better against lingering souls.
I know another weird synergy is between Thalia and Honor but the both combined makes it really difficult for your opponent to drop a Bonfire of the Damned, Slagstorm, Whipflare
The best two drops for this deck that have synergy with champion are Lightning Mauler and Gather the Townsfolk (not a creature but pretty much a creature)
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If you're gonna come at the King, you'd best not miss.
Oxid Ridge is a star in this as well because Silver Blade solves most of its problems with being frail by giving it first strike (and then some double strike)
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If you're gonna come at the King, you'd best not miss.
Oxid Ridge is a star in this as well because Silver Blade solves most of its problems with being frail by giving it first strike (and then some double strike)
I have my Oxid Ridge in the side, making my maindeck four-drops 2 Bladehold and 2 Hellrider. Oxid Ridge definitely becomes a start in his relevant matchups, but Hellrider always at least does something. He's more productive more often, pretty much.
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This thread as seemed to die off so I'm gonna bring some life back to it!
Have people been testing very much with Boros Humans anymore?
I have been and seen OK results. One thing I've seen hinder me is running out of gas late-game. Maybe I am dumping my hand too early? Has anyone else experienced this?
The key to Boros in the late game are the burn spells, but having 6-8 red mana for non-creature spells(Cavern of Souls) makes those burn cards difficult to cast and might end up being dead cards...I want to know someone here who has solved the mana issues for burn spells...
I just hope M13 will give us another W/R dual land to ease up the Boros dilemma...
My friend opted for Gut Shots for creature removal and as burn spell as well...it turned out to be pretty good as he went 9-0 in day 1 of GP Manila.
I recently dropped Blade Splicer altogether and put in 2 Angelic Destiny. It's absolutely explosive late game and really helps us get there with flying.
Edit: Last FNM tomorrow with Boros Humans before making the switch to Solar Flare. I'm gonna try to keep Boros built just in case I decide to play it again. Regardless, an FNM Report will be posted. Maybe even a Deck-Tech on youtube or something if anyone would watch that.
I have been gravely disappointed with my finish last GP Manila (I used W/U Humans), on day 1, I had a good start with 4-1 but suddenly turned sour when I faced 2 straight Delvers and since that I lost my drive to win the 9th round...It's just that my build has to focus on either 1 of the 2 options:
1 - be an anti-delver; or
2 - be an all-around build
- I had to stick with option number 2 and then suddenly 4 Delver match-ups were in my face, winning 1 out of 3 of them...I just could've stick with my anti-delver set-up and breeezed through, but I cannot just ignore the Kessig match-ups that I kinda made my deck a mid-range instead of a fast-paced one.
Anyway, I am ready to let go of my WU Humans and am starting to develop my own take on Boros. This was actually inspired by a friend, who went 9-0 in day 1 of GP Manila.
I am still contemplating whether the Gut Shots are the real deal, since Delver.dec is so rampant. It can also nullify that 1st turn BOP or even a mirror match with Champ on their first turn.
Having 25 creatures without Moorland Haunt is really something you should consider when playing, since the mentality when you have a token generator gets stuck in your brain and you really kinda have to conserve your resources while playing Boros, unless you're going for lethal.
My first build has 0 Oxid Ridge main and 3 Bladehold mained. The choice between the two is actually a meta call, but most of the time, you really want to race ahead and go with Oxid Ridge. Even against Flare match-ups, Oxid Ridge will be a 2-turn clock, especially when they tap out for 4 Spirit Tokens via Lingering Souls. The Kessig match-up would be different, you need those Bladeholds more than ever as they can easily eat you with miracle Bonfires and Slagstorms.
Having 1 main deck Zealous Conscripts is kinda iffy. Before, I had SoWaP there. Since I usually bring down the sword at 5 mana, I decided to give the Conscripts a try. I have won a match with snatching an Inferno Titan and hitting for 12. SoWaP cannot do that. It also means that for that turn, I have one extra creature to attack with, and my opponent one less to block.
I'm still undecided with the rest of the sideboard. I think I need the Bladeholds in that 75.
Can you share your thoughts regarding the build and how are we going to attack the meta? Thank you.
Differences...I'm not too sure on whether I want to replace the Galvanics with Gut Shots. I use them mostly on Delvers and such, but the idea that I can still kill Delver after the switch with Galvanic makes me keep those.
I like Silverblade over Mirran Crusader due to the synergy with how many other creatures I run.
Regarding the Heroes, I've run both for a long time now and I feel this number is best. There's just something to be said about casting a late-game Bladehold and hitting it with Slayers' Stronghold for the game-winner - I've done it a few times.
I also agree with running 1 Conscripts main.
Oh also! Phyrexian Metamorph is the nuts! He's won me so many games by letting me remove hexproof legendaries and by allowing me to clone huge threats.
I don't like Honor of the Pure, nor do I like the Swords. I really don't like Gather, or many non-creatures in the deck when you have Thalia there. I feel like you have two clean choices: run Thalia or run non-creatures. Those are individual calls though, so it's up to you. The build looks good overall, other than those quibbles.
Odd creature choices:
"Why aren't you using Heroes?" to you might ask. Hero of Bladehold is too slow, Hero of Oxid Ridge would be the better choice. But I prefer Hellrider's burn for guaranteed damage, it can often end the game without having to worry about blockers at all. It's really personal preference between the two options. Either one is better than Bladehold IMO though, at least in my build.
Restoration Angels? Why? Notice I have S. Paladins and L. Maulers in my build. Restoration Angel is a great way to reset soulbonds. The synergy is just awesome, blink a Paladin on their turn when they think its safe to attack and now you have 2 blockers with double strike ready to take down their creatures. There are so many beneficial scenarios to describe. It just works great.
Elite Inquisitor. Why is no one using this awesome creature? First Strike and Vigilance hoses other aggro decks while keeping the pressure. Pro-zombies, vampires, and werewolves is just an added perk that keeps Huntsmaster and Zombies in check.
Why am I not using: Doomed Traveler or Loyal Cathar or Gather the Townsfolk? I consider them weak cards that after turn 3 have little to no value in the deck. Traveler and Cathar are safe creatures for the inevitable board sweepers that will get sided in. But they simply aren't explosive enough They don't press for damage as effectively as the list I have now. Townsfolk is useless with no anthem effects by themselves. Using them only for the rare 3/3 champion on turn 2 is not worth it. It's great in many other builds but often times when I had tested in the past they wind up as nothing more than chump blockers and dead draws any time after turn 3. Not effective for the explosiveness I'm going for.
Lightning Mauler is an absolute must. If you are playing standard Boros and not using Mauler you are doing it wrong. Hanging on to a Mauler and virtually any other creature in my deck, I can quickly recover from a sweeper. Turn 4 DoJ? Okay, my Turn 5 I'll play Mauler and Paladin hit for 8? Yes please.
Mirran Crusader and Silverblade Paladin?!! Yes, why not? They are both that damn good. It's always good to see either in your hand. And no they are not clogging up the 3CMC spot when both creatures are extremely great.
Spell choices:
Cloudshift saves creatures from spot removal, gives you a blocker when your opponent thought it was safe to attack, block and keep your creature alive, and reset soulbond effects. It has great applications in this deck.
Pillar of Flame deals with undying creatures and creatures with die effects. And sometimes it can dole out the last 2 damage to win the game.
Bonfire of the Damed. Stupid good card. We got red why not use it? Clears their side and then attack.
The two postetrs above have very valid points and have some differences in how to build boros. maybe for now i will just stick to my build until i get to test it in a tournament and assess the strong/weak points...i squeezed in 2 bonfires in my build since i what them being topdecked most of the time and also i have a white base, restricting my red spell choices...i will let you know what happens...
The more I play this deck, the more I realize it's all about applying consistent pressure on your opponent and maintaining board presence. If you can curve out and force your opponents into making plays out of desperation then you'll usually win.
I really liked Champ, Doomed Traveler and Gather the Townsfolk. Having Honor of the Pure and Slayers' Stronghold, along with cheap creatures ensured that lethal board presence before early wipers. Conscripts, Hero of Bladehold, Mirran Crusader and Silverblade Paladin along with Lightning Mauler or Slayers' Stronghold ensure that pressure late game. I can't tell you how many times I was board wiped on turn 5/6 only to play Mauler and X.
Sword of War and Peace costs too much if you main-deck Thalia. It ends up being an expensive card that doesn't ensure additional board presence. However, it is often a great card against certain match-ups where Thalia just doesn't help as much as I'd like her to (R/G aggro). I side in at least another Bonfire, 2 Sword, and 2 Surgical Extraction for that match.
Many players grew frustrated when I played a turn 3 Stoney Silence. I was consistently bombarded with the exclamation, "You main-deck stony silence!" Cards like, Sword of War and Peace, Ratchet Bomb and even Birthing Pod can be a blow-out against r/w humans.
Stony Silence is a great answer to all of them them. It ensures your superior board presence. Additionally, not many people main-deck enchantment removal, and the combination of Grand Abolisher/Thalia gave me the ability to play the card without it being laid to waste by a counter spell.
Anyway, Whipflare was a total dud. I'm going to be siding that out for Ratchet Bomb or Additional oblivion rings. Maybe another bombfire. Who knows... just reporting back to the group.
Stony Silence? I'll definitely be looking into that! Why no Hero of Oxid Ridge, who is definitely better against Delver? Why 2 Elite Inquisitors instead of 2 more Gathers or 2 more Doomed Travellers? Six 1 drops instead of the usual eight, why?
Could you tell me what you sideboard in and out against what particular decks?
What do you take out/put in for Delver, Zombies, Wolf Run, RG Aggro, B/W Tokens, etc?
Why no Hero of Oxid Ridge, who is definitely better against Delver?
Hero of Oxid Ridge did not give me enough board presence. Board wipers left my opponents land tapped. If you play properly, you should be able to play Hero of Blade-hold with haste and give yourself a much stronger board presence with the 1/1 soldiers. Also Her tokens don't need to hit Gideon because they enter the battlefield after you declare attackers. That's a major bonus. This forces your opponent to play additional spells out of desperation and make "bad" plays.
Why 2 Elite Inquisitors instead of 2 more Gathers or 2 more Doomed Travellers?
Elite Inquisitor is a first strike, vigilante 2/2 and allows continue your battle plan and maintain and aggressive stance. He's also great against most of the meta, and I had to fit him into the deck somewhere so that this deck wouldn't fall flat on its face against st. traft, zombies, strangleroots, and werewolves.. etc. I might even consider adding another one and replacing the Gather in my sideboard.
Delver
-2 Stony (Silence especially if they've seen them)
-1 Honor of the Pure
+1 Bonfire of the Damned
+2 Surgical Extraction
The deck is built for the get-go to play against delver because it is the most popular deck in the format. Usually I'll take out the stony silence in game two and replace them with Surgical Extraction. Especially if the opponent saw the stony silence. With surgical extraction, target anything they try to get with Snapcaster Mage. Or, target ponder after it's been cast. Usually your deck will keep them on the ropes. Ponder keeps them in the game. Get rid of it. Also make sure you have Thalia, Grand Abolisher, and a 1 drop in hand on draw step. Delver just flops to a good thwarting curve. It's an annoying deck, but it's not too difficult to beat.
This depends on the version of zombie deck. Suicide zombies is probably going to be one of the most difficult match-ups if they curve out. But hopefully that give you a good idea. I'll be replacing that extra Gather with an inquisitor.
RG Aggro
-3 Grand Abolisher
-3 Thalia
-2 Stoney Silence
+1 Bonfire of the Damned
+2 Fiend Hunter
+1 Gather the Townsflold
+2 Sword of War and Peace
+2 Oblivion Ring
This deck is a major pain, but I managed to beat it out. Getting Stony silence is awesome first game. You'll need Sword of War and Peace to survive game two as they will side in Bonfire of the Damned.
I'll be adding Ratchet Bombs to the sideboard over whipflare, but for now this is what I'd side in. B/W tokens is mostly left on defense against this deck. It takes 3-4 turns for that deck to stabilize.
The more I play this deck, the more I realize it's all about applying consistent pressure on your opponent and maintaining board presence. If you can curve out and force your opponents into making plays out of desperation then you'll usually win.
I really liked Champ, Doomed Traveler and Gather the Townsfolk. Having Honor of the Pure and Slayers' Stronghold, along with cheap creatures ensured that lethal board presence before early wipers. Conscripts, Hero of Bladehold, Mirran Crusader and Silverblade Paladin along with Lightning Mauler or Slayers' Stronghold ensure that pressure late game. I can't tell you how many times I was board wiped on turn 5/6 only to play Mauler and X.
Sword of War and Peace costs too much if you main-deck Thalia. It ends up being an expensive card that doesn't ensure additional board presence. However, it is often a great card against certain match-ups where Thalia just doesn't help as much as I'd like her to (R/G aggro). I side in at least another Bonfire, 2 Sword, and 2 Surgical Extraction for that match.
Many players grew frustrated when I played a turn 3 Stoney Silence. I was consistently bombarded with the exclamation, "You main-deck stony silence!" Cards like, Sword of War and Peace, Ratchet Bomb and even Birthing Pod can be a blow-out against r/w humans.
Stony Silence is a great answer to all of them them. It ensures your superior board presence. Additionally, not many people main-deck enchantment removal, and the combination of Grand Abolisher/Thalia gave me the ability to play the card without it being laid to waste by a counter spell.
Anyway, Whipflare was a total dud. I'm going to be siding that out for Ratchet Bomb or Additional oblivion rings. Maybe another bombfire. Who knows... just reporting back to the group.
Your deck list looks great. And proven with your placement at a GP Trial. I noticed that in your other response you take out the Grand Abolishers in almost every match up besides Delver. But I do see how he is such a beast against the top deck in the meta.
What do you feel is the best answer to dealing with the opponent's graveyard?
By this I mean dealing with undying creatures, flashback, Moorland Haunt, Snapcaster Mage, etc.
We got Nihil Spellbomb, Surgical Extractions, and Grafdigger's Cage all available.
Your deck list looks great. And proven with your placement at a GP Trial. I noticed that in your other response you take out the Grand Abolishers in almost every match up besides Delver. But I do see how he is such a beast against the top deck in the meta.
What do you feel is the best answer to dealing with the opponent's graveyard?
By this I mean dealing with undying creatures, flashback, Moorland Haunt, Snapcaster Mage, etc.
We got Nihil Spellbomb, Surgical Extractions, and Grafdigger's Cage all available.
I never have problems with moorland haunt. Moorland Haunt is used to stall the game, but it's mildly effective at best. Attack through it. To ***** slap snapcaster, I like surgical extractions the best. My opponent doesn't see it coming and most of the time they can't counter it or they'll lose the mana they needed to cast the spell. A well placed surgical extraction can often win you the game.
Additionally, most opponents will side out the counter spells in the second game after you've punished them with Grand Abolisher, Cavern, and Thalia. Don't play cautiously in the second match. Be reckless and blatantly acknowledge their lack of counter spells by playing spells at times where they could counter them. It makes you feel good.
I never have problems with moorland haunt. Moorland Haunt is used to stall the game, but it's mildly effective at best. Attack through it. To ***** slap snapcaster, I like surgical extractions the best. My opponent doesn't see it coming and most of the time they can't counter it or they'll lose the mana they needed to cast the spell. A well placed surgical extraction can often win you the game.
Additionally, most opponents will side out the counter spells in the second game after you've punished them with Grand Abolisher, Cavern, and Thalia. Don't play cautiously in the second match. Be reckless and blatantly acknowledge their lack of counter spells by playing spells at times where they could counter them. It makes you feel good.
Yeah, I feel Human boros does best sticking to the plan of rushing in even in the second game.
What is generally sideboarded against us?
Is it better to counter their side or to just side against their main deck strategy?
Also how are the evolving wilds working out for you? I cant stand that the lands come in tapped. I took them out of my build.
Yeah, I feel Human boros does best sticking to the plan of rushing in even in the second game.
What is generally sideboarded against us?
Is it better to counter their side or to just side against their main deck strategy?
Also how are the evolving wilds working out for you? I cant stand that the lands come in tapped. I took them out of my build.
I just continue to fight their main-deck strategy. There's no way to know what they're siding in.
There are too many situations where you need double white or one red for Bonfire. Evolving Wilds is more of a help than a hindrance. That's not to say there aren't games where I'm forced to make my first play on turn two. It's not so bad on the play, but on the draw it can spell trouble.
I hope the Boros archetype be moved to somewhere more exclusive, as it has been showing good finishes as of late...Used this list yesterday and ended 2nd place.
I had a real problem facing Naya Pod. How do we side against them?
I know there's still a lot to adjust in the sideboard. I think Act of Aggression is not as needed because Zealous does the job better.
It can easily outrun Delver, especially having Thalia and Abolisher in the main deck.
Sword of War and Peace is really not that needed here, but I board it in against Solar Flare, it can really bring the opponents down.
Hero of Bladehold was there in my 75 before, and I am planning to squeeze in 2 in the side. It can really shine outside of Delver match ups.
Bonfire of the Damned is not as effective in my build (with only 6 red sources), As much as I want to up my Mountain count, it makes the WWX creatures more difficult to cast. I hope Return to Ravnica will give more support to Boros spells.
Slayers' Stronghold at 2 in my main deck was surprisingly effective. Here are the reasons:
1 - No need to overextend when you're up against control match ups. There were many instances when I'm up at 6 mana and drew creatures with less than or equal to 3CMC that directly hit my opponent's face.
2 - Having 6 (or more) creatures with double strike makes the land so efficient in dealing damage. Mirran + Honor + Stronghold = 10 damage out of nowhere.
3 - You still get a blocker and against delver, Restoration Angel cannot just bully you with a surprise block, especially when you attack with a first strike/double strike creature.
I had a real problem facing Naya Pod. How do we side against them?
I know there's still a lot to adjust in the sideboard. I think Act of Aggression is not as needed because Zealous does the job better.
It can easily outrun Delver, especially having Thalia and Abolisher in the main deck.
Sword of War and Peace is really not that needed here, but I board it in against Solar Flare, it can really bring the opponents down.
Hero of Bladehold was there in my 75 before, and I am planning to squeeze in 2 in the side. It can really shine outside of Delver match ups.
Bonfire of the Damned is not as effective in my build (with only 6 red sources), As much as I want to up my Mountain count, it makes the WWX creatures more difficult to cast. I hope Return to Ravnica will give more support to Boros spells.
Slayers' Stronghold at 2 in my main deck was surprisingly effective. Here are the reasons:
1 - No need to overextend when you're up against control match ups. There were many instances when I'm up at 6 mana and drew creatures with less than or equal to 3CMC that directly hit my opponent's face.
2 - Having 6 (or more) creatures with double strike makes the land so efficient in dealing damage. Mirran + Honor + Stronghold = 10 damage out of nowhere.
3 - You still get a blocker and against delver, Restoration Angel cannot just bully you with a surprise block, especially when you attack with a first strike/double strike creature.
4 - Can KILL Phantasmal Images.
Stony Silence turns Naya Pod into a slow clunky deck. Also, I agree with you on Slayers' Stronghold. It's pretty sweet.
Stony Silence turns Naya Pod into a slow clunky deck. Also, I agree with you on Slayers' Stronghold. It's pretty sweet.
This was true for the Elesh-Norn, 4x Pod decks of old. The newer Naya archetype has the pods as an afterthought, commonly only running 2, and usually boarding them out. I prefer Nearhearth Pilgrim as a sideboard option against aggro/creature based decks. It really slows them down, and we don't exactly have the sideboard space for Stony Silence.
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This was true for the Elesh-Norn, 4x Pod decks of old. The newer Naya archetype has the pods as an afterthought, commonly only running 2, and usually boarding them out. I prefer Nearhearth Pilgrim as a sideboard option against aggro/creature based decks. It really slows them down, and we don't exactly have the sideboard space for Stony Silence.
Nearharth Pilgrim is great in the perfect situation (with Silverblade Paladin or Turn-2 COP), but I need cards that are going to serve their purpose consistently.
1. He's is a 2/1. He dies when chumped and falls on his face to a card that was in nearly 50% of the top 32 decks at Manila 2012, Gutshot. They can cast it on your turn while tapped out, and decide to kill him instead of Champion of the Parish.
2. He's dependent and not aggro. Unlike Silverblade Paladin or Lightning Mauler he doesn't hold my opponents feet to the fire. He didn't maintain consistent board presence that I needed him to during play testing, and gave my opponent a chance to stabilize. Your opponent doesn't care if you gain some life.
66% of the top 32 decks from Manila 2012 ran some kind of Sword, Pike or Pod as a win condition. I think it's safe to say there's room for the card. Sword is a blow-out win against this deck. Particularly sword of war and peace. That's why I ran the card. It is also somewhat effective against many other decks in the format, as it puts the ka-bash on cards like Sphere of Suns. Is it a debatable choice? Sure, but it was a choice that got me into Top 8. I'm glad I made it.
So the idea is to get a Lightning Mauler or Silverblade Paladin into the graveyard asap so that we can bring it back in to bond with Sun Titan. Priest of Urabrask is there to help combo with Sun Titan into a Devil's Play as a finisher. Yes the Silver-Inlaid Daggers looks nooby but they work well on any of the creatures smaller creatures especially if they're bonded to get double strike. Faithless looting helps us dig for a titan and dump creatures for the titan or any extra land. We literally just sleeved it up and are going to start testing it.
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Modern - UWR Geist // UWR Control // Merfolk
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You can't just simply throw in Thatcher's Revolt and call it good. You have to build a deck around that card because the tokens go away at the end of the turn. If all you're using it for is a quick pump to champ to and attack you are wasting space in the deck. Cuz a larger percentage of the time you won't have that convenient synergy on the field.
You should want to be able to use the revolt at anytime to gain the upper hand. Many of the best combos that can be done with it don't happen until after turn 5. When you can use it after a hellrider or hero of bladehold are already on the field. Or at the very least you should have played an anthem(honor of the pure or something with battlecry, accorder paladin) effect before.
Thatcher's revolt by itself is terrible. If only being used to benefit champion its marginally decent.
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I like it, though I don't what would be worth taking out for it from my list. Even in the side it's a tough choice. But the potential amount of life gain and damage being done to the opponent can sometimes make people despair when they see the life difference.
Also has anyone tried using Manabarbs against Esper control or Ramp match ups?
In BR Zombies its indespensible in the SB.
This is my current build tested it out today a little. Liked the way it was flowing.
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Lightning Mauler
4 Mirran Crusader
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Silverblade Paladin
3 Hero of Bladehold
2 Fiend Hunter
2 Elite Inquisitor
1 Zealous Conscripts
3 Angelic Destiny
2 Arc Trail
3 Pillar of Flame
3 Cloudshift
Land 23
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Clifftop Retreat
5 Mountain
8 Plains
3 Slayers' Stronghold
2 Celestial Purge
3 Manabarbs
1 Oblivion Ring
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Revoke Existence
1 Zealous Conscripts
After testing around I feel that Stormblood Berserker and Brimstone Volley slow down and hurt the deck more than it helps, mana spent casting them is better spent on Slayers' Stronghold activation. Stronghold adds a huge boost and dimension to the deck that I didn't really consider as valueable until actually playing. With 6mana open I was able to drop a crusader and attack for 10damage in a single turn. That kind of explosiveness is what really makes this deck shine.
On the debate of Silverblade vs Crusader. I say if you have them use both of them. Neither of them are ever a dead card and most of the time if you have one or the other you are happy with whats about to happen.
Angelic Destiny is always best used on a double striker IMO. And with so many available the way I built the deck having one in hand is almost always I sure fire win to victory.
I don't understand the hate that Elite Inquisitor gets. 2CMC for 2/2, first strike, vigilance, pro-zombies, vampires, and werewolves. How is that ever a "bad" creature? He wrecks zombies, laughs at huntmaster, and hoses other aggro decks. I have 2 MB and I'm considering moving that one Zealous into the side to add a 3rd. And as far as the whole "what about vs delver", he does fairly well against delver too unless they have a sword out... but in that case, there is a sword out!!
Ok so I've been having alot of success with RW humans recently but my current sideboard is embarassing, so embarassing that I'm not posting it and starting from scratch. Here is my list.
2 Slayers Stronghold
4 Clifftop Retreat
10 Plains
4 Mountain
4 LIghtning Mauler
4 Silverblade Paladin
4 Mirran Crusader
3 Hero of Bladehold
3 Hero of Oxid Ridge
4 Fiend Hunter
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Gather The Townsfolk
The best two drops for this deck that have synergy with champion are Lightning Mauler and Gather the Townsfolk (not a creature but pretty much a creature)
I have my Oxid Ridge in the side, making my maindeck four-drops 2 Bladehold and 2 Hellrider. Oxid Ridge definitely becomes a start in his relevant matchups, but Hellrider always at least does something. He's more productive more often, pretty much.
:symr::symw:Humans:symw::symr:
4-1-0
:symb::symg:Pod:symg::symb:
19-6-0
Have people been testing very much with Boros Humans anymore?
I have been and seen OK results. One thing I've seen hinder me is running out of gas late-game. Maybe I am dumping my hand too early? Has anyone else experienced this?
I just hope M13 will give us another W/R dual land to ease up the Boros dilemma...
My friend opted for Gut Shots for creature removal and as burn spell as well...it turned out to be pretty good as he went 9-0 in day 1 of GP Manila.
Edit: Last FNM tomorrow with Boros Humans before making the switch to Solar Flare. I'm gonna try to keep Boros built just in case I decide to play it again. Regardless, an FNM Report will be posted. Maybe even a Deck-Tech on youtube or something if anyone would watch that.
:symr::symw:Humans:symw::symr:
4-1-0
:symb::symg:Pod:symg::symb:
19-6-0
1 - be an anti-delver; or
2 - be an all-around build
- I had to stick with option number 2 and then suddenly 4 Delver match-ups were in my face, winning 1 out of 3 of them...I just could've stick with my anti-delver set-up and breeezed through, but I cannot just ignore the Kessig match-ups that I kinda made my deck a mid-range instead of a fast-paced one.
Anyway, I am ready to let go of my WU Humans and am starting to develop my own take on Boros. This was actually inspired by a friend, who went 9-0 in day 1 of GP Manila.
Here's the deck:
1 Zealous Conscripts
3 Hero of Oxid Ridge
3 Mirran Crusader
2 Fiend Hunter
3 Grand Abolisher
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Loyal Cathar
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Doomed Traveler
4 Honor of the Pure
Sorceries (3)
3 Gather the Townsfolk
Instants (5)
3 Gut Shot
2 Dismember
Lands (23)
11 Plains
2 Mountains
2 Slayers' Stronghold
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Clifftop Retreat
1 Zealous Conscripts
2 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Fiend Hunter
2 Sword of War and Peace
2 Act of Aggression
1 Celestial Purge
1 Combust
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Divine Offering
1 Revoke Existence
I am still contemplating whether the Gut Shots are the real deal, since Delver.dec is so rampant. It can also nullify that 1st turn BOP or even a mirror match with Champ on their first turn.
Having 25 creatures without Moorland Haunt is really something you should consider when playing, since the mentality when you have a token generator gets stuck in your brain and you really kinda have to conserve your resources while playing Boros, unless you're going for lethal.
My first build has 0 Oxid Ridge main and 3 Bladehold mained. The choice between the two is actually a meta call, but most of the time, you really want to race ahead and go with Oxid Ridge. Even against Flare match-ups, Oxid Ridge will be a 2-turn clock, especially when they tap out for 4 Spirit Tokens via Lingering Souls. The Kessig match-up would be different, you need those Bladeholds more than ever as they can easily eat you with miracle Bonfires and Slagstorms.
Having 1 main deck Zealous Conscripts is kinda iffy. Before, I had SoWaP there. Since I usually bring down the sword at 5 mana, I decided to give the Conscripts a try. I have won a match with snatching an Inferno Titan and hitting for 12. SoWaP cannot do that. It also means that for that turn, I have one extra creature to attack with, and my opponent one less to block.
I'm still undecided with the rest of the sideboard. I think I need the Bladeholds in that 75.
Can you share your thoughts regarding the build and how are we going to attack the meta? Thank you.
1 Zealous Conscripts
2 Hero of Oxid Ridge
3 Hero of Bladehold
3 Fiend Hunter
3 Grand Abolisher
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Accorder Paladin
4 Champion of the Parish
3 Gideon's Lawkeeper
2 Phyrexiam Metamorph
4 Silverblade Paladin
4 Lightning Mauler
3 Galvanic Blast
Lands
8 Plains
5 Mountains
2 Slayers' Stronghold
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Clifftop Retreat
3 Divine Deflection
2 Elite Inquisitor
1 Nevermore
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Celestial Purge
1 Zealous Conscripts
3 Revoke Existence
Differences...I'm not too sure on whether I want to replace the Galvanics with Gut Shots. I use them mostly on Delvers and such, but the idea that I can still kill Delver after the switch with Galvanic makes me keep those.
I like Silverblade over Mirran Crusader due to the synergy with how many other creatures I run.
Regarding the Heroes, I've run both for a long time now and I feel this number is best. There's just something to be said about casting a late-game Bladehold and hitting it with Slayers' Stronghold for the game-winner - I've done it a few times.
I also agree with running 1 Conscripts main.
Oh also! Phyrexian Metamorph is the nuts! He's won me so many games by letting me remove hexproof legendaries and by allowing me to clone huge threats.
I don't like Honor of the Pure, nor do I like the Swords. I really don't like Gather, or many non-creatures in the deck when you have Thalia there. I feel like you have two clean choices: run Thalia or run non-creatures. Those are individual calls though, so it's up to you. The build looks good overall, other than those quibbles.
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Lightning Mauler
3 Silverblade Paladin
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Elite Inquisitor
2 Fiend Hunter
2 Restoration Angel
1 Hellrider
1 Zealous Conscripts
3 Bonfire of the Damned
3 Cloudshift
3 Pillar of Flame
2 Oblivion Ring
Lands 23
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Clifftop Retreat
5 Mountain
8 Plains
3 Slayers' Stronghold
2 Celestial Purge
3 Manabarbs
1 Oblivion Ring
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Revoke Existence
1 Zealous Conscripts
2 Hellrider
Breakdown:
Odd creature choices:
"Why aren't you using Heroes?" to you might ask. Hero of Bladehold is too slow, Hero of Oxid Ridge would be the better choice. But I prefer Hellrider's burn for guaranteed damage, it can often end the game without having to worry about blockers at all. It's really personal preference between the two options. Either one is better than Bladehold IMO though, at least in my build.
Restoration Angels? Why? Notice I have S. Paladins and L. Maulers in my build. Restoration Angel is a great way to reset soulbonds. The synergy is just awesome, blink a Paladin on their turn when they think its safe to attack and now you have 2 blockers with double strike ready to take down their creatures. There are so many beneficial scenarios to describe. It just works great.
Elite Inquisitor. Why is no one using this awesome creature? First Strike and Vigilance hoses other aggro decks while keeping the pressure. Pro-zombies, vampires, and werewolves is just an added perk that keeps Huntsmaster and Zombies in check.
Why am I not using: Doomed Traveler or Loyal Cathar or Gather the Townsfolk? I consider them weak cards that after turn 3 have little to no value in the deck. Traveler and Cathar are safe creatures for the inevitable board sweepers that will get sided in. But they simply aren't explosive enough They don't press for damage as effectively as the list I have now. Townsfolk is useless with no anthem effects by themselves. Using them only for the rare 3/3 champion on turn 2 is not worth it. It's great in many other builds but often times when I had tested in the past they wind up as nothing more than chump blockers and dead draws any time after turn 3. Not effective for the explosiveness I'm going for.
Lightning Mauler is an absolute must. If you are playing standard Boros and not using Mauler you are doing it wrong. Hanging on to a Mauler and virtually any other creature in my deck, I can quickly recover from a sweeper. Turn 4 DoJ? Okay, my Turn 5 I'll play Mauler and Paladin hit for 8? Yes please.
Mirran Crusader and Silverblade Paladin?!! Yes, why not? They are both that damn good. It's always good to see either in your hand. And no they are not clogging up the 3CMC spot when both creatures are extremely great.
Spell choices:
Cloudshift saves creatures from spot removal, gives you a blocker when your opponent thought it was safe to attack, block and keep your creature alive, and reset soulbond effects. It has great applications in this deck.
Pillar of Flame deals with undying creatures and creatures with die effects. And sometimes it can dole out the last 2 damage to win the game.
Bonfire of the Damed. Stupid good card. We got red why not use it? Clears their side and then attack.
2 Doomed Traveler
4 Champion of the Parish
3 Grand Abolisher
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Lightning Mauler
2 Elite Inquisitor
3 Silverblade Paladin
4 Mirran Crusader
2 Hero of Bladehold
1 Zealous Conscripts
4 Honor of the Pure
2 Stoney Silence
Sorcery(4)
2 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Gather the Townsfolk
Lands(23)
4 Mountain
7 Plain
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Clifftop Retreat
2 Evolving Wilds
2 Slayers' Stronghold
2 Whipflare
1 Gather the Townsfolk
2 Fiend Hunter
2 Oblivion Rings
1 Zealous Conscripts
2 Divine Offering
2 Sword of War and Peace
1 Bonfire of the Damned
The more I play this deck, the more I realize it's all about applying consistent pressure on your opponent and maintaining board presence. If you can curve out and force your opponents into making plays out of desperation then you'll usually win.
I really liked Champ, Doomed Traveler and Gather the Townsfolk. Having Honor of the Pure and Slayers' Stronghold, along with cheap creatures ensured that lethal board presence before early wipers. Conscripts, Hero of Bladehold, Mirran Crusader and Silverblade Paladin along with Lightning Mauler or Slayers' Stronghold ensure that pressure late game. I can't tell you how many times I was board wiped on turn 5/6 only to play Mauler and X.
Sword of War and Peace costs too much if you main-deck Thalia. It ends up being an expensive card that doesn't ensure additional board presence. However, it is often a great card against certain match-ups where Thalia just doesn't help as much as I'd like her to (R/G aggro). I side in at least another Bonfire, 2 Sword, and 2 Surgical Extraction for that match.
Many players grew frustrated when I played a turn 3 Stoney Silence. I was consistently bombarded with the exclamation, "You main-deck stony silence!" Cards like, Sword of War and Peace, Ratchet Bomb and even Birthing Pod can be a blow-out against r/w humans.
Stony Silence is a great answer to all of them them. It ensures your superior board presence. Additionally, not many people main-deck enchantment removal, and the combination of Grand Abolisher/Thalia gave me the ability to play the card without it being laid to waste by a counter spell.
Anyway, Whipflare was a total dud. I'm going to be siding that out for Ratchet Bomb or Additional oblivion rings. Maybe another bombfire. Who knows... just reporting back to the group.
Why no Hero of Oxid Ridge, who is definitely better against Delver?
Hero of Oxid Ridge did not give me enough board presence. Board wipers left my opponents land tapped. If you play properly, you should be able to play Hero of Blade-hold with haste and give yourself a much stronger board presence with the 1/1 soldiers. Also Her tokens don't need to hit Gideon because they enter the battlefield after you declare attackers. That's a major bonus. This forces your opponent to play additional spells out of desperation and make "bad" plays.
Why 2 Elite Inquisitors instead of 2 more Gathers or 2 more Doomed Travellers?
Elite Inquisitor is a first strike, vigilante 2/2 and allows continue your battle plan and maintain and aggressive stance. He's also great against most of the meta, and I had to fit him into the deck somewhere so that this deck wouldn't fall flat on its face against st. traft, zombies, strangleroots, and werewolves.. etc. I might even consider adding another one and replacing the Gather in my sideboard.
Delver
-2 Stony (Silence especially if they've seen them)
-1 Honor of the Pure
+1 Bonfire of the Damned
+2 Surgical Extraction
The deck is built for the get-go to play against delver because it is the most popular deck in the format. Usually I'll take out the stony silence in game two and replace them with Surgical Extraction. Especially if the opponent saw the stony silence. With surgical extraction, target anything they try to get with Snapcaster Mage. Or, target ponder after it's been cast. Usually your deck will keep them on the ropes. Ponder keeps them in the game. Get rid of it. Also make sure you have Thalia, Grand Abolisher, and a 1 drop in hand on draw step. Delver just flops to a good thwarting curve. It's an annoying deck, but it's not too difficult to beat.
Zombies
-3 Grand Abolisher
-1 Conscrtips
-2 Stoney Silence
+1 Bonfire
+1 Gather the Townsfolk
+2 Fiend Hunter
+2 Surgical Extraction
This depends on the version of zombie deck. Suicide zombies is probably going to be one of the most difficult match-ups if they curve out. But hopefully that give you a good idea. I'll be replacing that extra Gather with an inquisitor.
RG Aggro
-3 Grand Abolisher
-3 Thalia
-2 Stoney Silence
+1 Bonfire of the Damned
+2 Fiend Hunter
+1 Gather the Townsflold
+2 Sword of War and Peace
+2 Oblivion Ring
This deck is a major pain, but I managed to beat it out. Getting Stony silence is awesome first game. You'll need Sword of War and Peace to survive game two as they will side in Bonfire of the Damned.
B/W Tokens
-3 Grand Abolisher
-1 Conscrtips
-2 Stoney Silence
+1 Bonfire
+1 Gather the Townsfolk
+2 Fiend Hunter
+2 Surgical Extraction
I'll be adding Ratchet Bombs to the sideboard over whipflare, but for now this is what I'd side in. B/W tokens is mostly left on defense against this deck. It takes 3-4 turns for that deck to stabilize.
Your deck list looks great. And proven with your placement at a GP Trial. I noticed that in your other response you take out the Grand Abolishers in almost every match up besides Delver. But I do see how he is such a beast against the top deck in the meta.
What do you feel is the best answer to dealing with the opponent's graveyard?
By this I mean dealing with undying creatures, flashback, Moorland Haunt, Snapcaster Mage, etc.
We got Nihil Spellbomb, Surgical Extractions, and Grafdigger's Cage all available.
I never have problems with moorland haunt. Moorland Haunt is used to stall the game, but it's mildly effective at best. Attack through it. To ***** slap snapcaster, I like surgical extractions the best. My opponent doesn't see it coming and most of the time they can't counter it or they'll lose the mana they needed to cast the spell. A well placed surgical extraction can often win you the game.
Additionally, most opponents will side out the counter spells in the second game after you've punished them with Grand Abolisher, Cavern, and Thalia. Don't play cautiously in the second match. Be reckless and blatantly acknowledge their lack of counter spells by playing spells at times where they could counter them. It makes you feel good.
Yeah, I feel Human boros does best sticking to the plan of rushing in even in the second game.
What is generally sideboarded against us?
Is it better to counter their side or to just side against their main deck strategy?
Also how are the evolving wilds working out for you? I cant stand that the lands come in tapped. I took them out of my build.
I just continue to fight their main-deck strategy. There's no way to know what they're siding in.
There are too many situations where you need double white or one red for Bonfire. Evolving Wilds is more of a help than a hindrance. That's not to say there aren't games where I'm forced to make my first play on turn two. It's not so bad on the play, but on the draw it can spell trouble.
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Clifftop Retreat
2 Mountain
11 Plains
2 Slayers' Stronghold
Creatures
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Doomed Traveler
3 Fiend Hunter
3 Grand Abolisher
3 Hero of Oxid Ridge
2 Loyal Cathar
4 Mirran Crusader
2 Silverblade Paladin
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Zealous Conscripts
2 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Dismember
4 Honor of the Pure
1 Act of Aggression
1 Celestial Purge
1 Combust
1 Divine Offering
2 Leonin Relic-Warder
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Sword of War and Peace
1 Timely Reinforcements
2 Zealous Conscripts
I had a real problem facing Naya Pod. How do we side against them?
I know there's still a lot to adjust in the sideboard. I think Act of Aggression is not as needed because Zealous does the job better.
It can easily outrun Delver, especially having Thalia and Abolisher in the main deck.
Sword of War and Peace is really not that needed here, but I board it in against Solar Flare, it can really bring the opponents down.
Hero of Bladehold was there in my 75 before, and I am planning to squeeze in 2 in the side. It can really shine outside of Delver match ups.
Bonfire of the Damned is not as effective in my build (with only 6 red sources), As much as I want to up my Mountain count, it makes the WWX creatures more difficult to cast. I hope Return to Ravnica will give more support to Boros spells.
Slayers' Stronghold at 2 in my main deck was surprisingly effective. Here are the reasons:
1 - No need to overextend when you're up against control match ups. There were many instances when I'm up at 6 mana and drew creatures with less than or equal to 3CMC that directly hit my opponent's face.
2 - Having 6 (or more) creatures with double strike makes the land so efficient in dealing damage. Mirran + Honor + Stronghold = 10 damage out of nowhere.
3 - You still get a blocker and against delver, Restoration Angel cannot just bully you with a surprise block, especially when you attack with a first strike/double strike creature.
4 - Can KILL Phantasmal Images.
Stony Silence turns Naya Pod into a slow clunky deck. Also, I agree with you on Slayers' Stronghold. It's pretty sweet.
This was true for the Elesh-Norn, 4x Pod decks of old. The newer Naya archetype has the pods as an afterthought, commonly only running 2, and usually boarding them out. I prefer Nearhearth Pilgrim as a sideboard option against aggro/creature based decks. It really slows them down, and we don't exactly have the sideboard space for Stony Silence.
:symr::symw:Humans:symw::symr:
4-1-0
:symb::symg:Pod:symg::symb:
19-6-0
Nearharth Pilgrim is great in the perfect situation (with Silverblade Paladin or Turn-2 COP), but I need cards that are going to serve their purpose consistently.
1. He's is a 2/1. He dies when chumped and falls on his face to a card that was in nearly 50% of the top 32 decks at Manila 2012, Gutshot. They can cast it on your turn while tapped out, and decide to kill him instead of Champion of the Parish.
2. He's dependent and not aggro. Unlike Silverblade Paladin or Lightning Mauler he doesn't hold my opponents feet to the fire. He didn't maintain consistent board presence that I needed him to during play testing, and gave my opponent a chance to stabilize. Your opponent doesn't care if you gain some life.
66% of the top 32 decks from Manila 2012 ran some kind of Sword, Pike or Pod as a win condition. I think it's safe to say there's room for the card. Sword is a blow-out win against this deck. Particularly sword of war and peace. That's why I ran the card. It is also somewhat effective against many other decks in the format, as it puts the ka-bash on cards like Sphere of Suns. Is it a debatable choice? Sure, but it was a choice that got me into Top 8. I'm glad I made it.
03 Sun Titan
04 Mirran Crusader
04 Silverblade Paladin
03 Grand Abolisher
02 Fiend Hunter
04 Lightning Mauler
04 Priest of Urabrask
04 Champion of the Parish
03 Faithless Looting
03 Devil's Play
Artifacts - 04
04 Silver-Inlaid Dagger
Lands - 22
03 Cavern of Souls
02 Slayers Stonghold
04 Clifftop Retreat
08 Plains
05 Mountain
So the idea is to get a Lightning Mauler or Silverblade Paladin into the graveyard asap so that we can bring it back in to bond with Sun Titan. Priest of Urabrask is there to help combo with Sun Titan into a Devil's Play as a finisher. Yes the Silver-Inlaid Daggers looks nooby but they work well on any of the creatures smaller creatures especially if they're bonded to get double strike. Faithless looting helps us dig for a titan and dump creatures for the titan or any extra land. We literally just sleeved it up and are going to start testing it.