[Primer] Boros Humans

  • #1
    Introduction
    Boros humans is a deck archetype that is less consistent than G/W Humans, but has the potential to be more explosive. It focuses more on the 1/2 drops to get the ball rolling due to having no mana acceleration like the gw counterpart. In a nutshell it's a monowhite humans deck with powerful red cards thrown in. This has become a thing mainly due to the new set Avacyn Restored that has given us things such as Zealous Conscripts, Lightning mauler, Slayers' Stronghold and, Cavern of Souls.

    How the deck works
    It works like any other humans deck, play humans, turn them sideways, and collect your 2-0 victory, just be sure to not overextend into a doj.

    The cards
    Unless you have a very odd meta where these cards would not be good, i don't suggest straying from these, even then you probably shouldn't be playing Humans period if that's the case.
    Champion of the Parish - Absolutely need this 4 of this guy, he's a big chunk of your early game damage.
    Doomed Traveler - Another great 1 drop. Gives you resilience against board sweepers and makes opponent hesitant to block him because then you get a spirit.
    Fiend hunter - In this creature heavy meta whats not to love about exiling your opponents flipped delver and getting a 1/3 body as well?
    Mirran Crusader - A complete beast of a 3 drop, though not so great against R/x decks due to burn and whipflare/slagstorm.
    Silverblade Paladin - Makes himself and your 4/4 Champion have doublestrike turn 3. Who wouldn't want this?
    Hero of Bladehold - Solid 4 drop, ends games especially with silverblade paladin.
    Honor of the pure - Great choice unless you're running Thalia

    Rate4.5Gideon's Lawkeeper - Again with this creature heavy meta who wouldn't want to tap down your opponent's biggest creature?
    Rate3Elite Vanguard - Okay 1 drop, but falls short when it can be easily blocked and killed. Only shines with Silverblade bonded with it, or with honor of the pure out.
    Rate4.5Thalia, Guardian of Thraben - Amazing card against delver and any deck that likes to cast non creature spells frequently and is a good body with first strike to boot.
    Rate5Oblivion Ring - Good card but comes down too late usually when running Thalia
    Rate4Riders of gavony - Good agains the mirror W/x humans or any other tribal deck. And if anything to just get past the 6/6 titan staring you in the face.
    Rate4.5Gather the Townsfolk - Great card, not so great with thalia however. Can make the Champion you just drew into a pseudo titan late game.
    Rate5Celestial purge - With zombies and Huntmaster of the fells being things, this card puts them in their place.
    Rate4Revoke Existance - Good sideboard card for r/g aggro, delver, any deck with swords/enchantments/wurmcoil engines. Would be a 5 if it was instant speed.
    Rate4Timely Reinforcements - Kind of an eh card, especially since your goal is to do what timely reinforcements isn't. Good card if you're falling behind in the mirror though.

    Rate1.5Vexing Devil - This guy is alright, but has no place in a humans deck. The problem with abilities like his is your opponent will always choose whats good for them, if they pay 4 life you pretty much lost your play, and if they don't then they most likely a way to deal with it.
    Rate2.5Stromkirk Noble - A decent 1 drop that is good in the mirror but is only good if dropped on turn 1 or at most turn 2.
    Rate5Stormblood Berzerker - A turn 2 bomb, seriously even if your Champion only hits for 1 turn 2, dropping this 3/3 behemoth the same turn will ensure a quick victory if they have no way to deal with him.
    Rate4.5Lightning Mauler - A great 2 drop, can leave him unpaired for the eventual mirran crusader/silverblade paladin or hero of bladehold.
    Rate3StoneWright - Repeatable Firebreathing. Alright for a 1 drop but better choices out there.
    Rate3.5Hero of Oxid Ridge - Okay against token decks but most of the time by turn 4 they have an anthem of some sort out that makes his ability not that great. Not as good as Bladehold, period.
    Rate4.5Zealous Conscripts - This card saves your ass, or ends the game. Or both. Use it to steal that wurmcoil engine and swing for lethal, or to get life back. Or steal that *insert planeswalker here* that's about to Ultimate.
    Rate0Hellrider - Untested but could be good

    The only artifacts you should really look at are
    Rate5Sword of war and peace - Best sword in the meta by far.
    Rate4Sword of feast and famine - Second best sword in the meta, lets you swing past the Phyrexian obliterator staring you down.
    Rate5Ratchet Bomb - Mainly a sideboard card, but great choice all around.

    4x Clifftop Retreat - Pretty much a given with it being a red/white deck and all
    4x Cavern of Souls - Fixes our mana and makes our t4 Hero of bladehold stick(well better than before)
    1-3 Slayers Stronghold - One of the better spell lands, 3 to give something haste vigilance and +2 power, yes please.

    The Deck
    The deck itself is easy to make, just take the core human cards and the lands listed and the suggested white/red cards. As long as you stick to red, white, and human it's hard to go wrong(disclaimer it's possible to go very wrong)

    R/W Humans by David Luety, 7th place SCG Open 2012-05-13Magic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    1 Slayers' Stronghold
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Lightning Mauler
    3 Silverblade Paladin
    2 Gather the Townsfolk
    3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4 Champion of the Parish
    2 Doomed Traveler
    4 Clifftop Retreat
    2 Fiend Hunter
    3 Stormblood Berserker
    3 Sword of War and Peace
    3 Mirran Crusader
    4 Hero of Bladehold
    3 Honor of the Pure
    12 Plains
    3 Mountain



    Tournament Standings

    You mad, Boros? - TheHoffmoster (4-1-0) Magic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creatures: 23
    4x Champion of the Parish
    4x Doomed Traveler
    4x Lightning Mauler
    2x Silverblade Paladin
    2x Blade Splicer
    2x Fiend Hunter
    2x Hero of Bladehold
    2x Hellrider
    1x Zealous Conscripts

    Noncreature Spells: 13
    4x Gather the Townsfolk
    3x Arc Trail
    3x Brimstone Volley
    3x Oblivion Ring

    Lands: 24
    4x Clifftop Retreat
    2x Slayers' Stronghold
    7x Mountain
    11x Plains



    I will continue this later, but for the time being i've attached the most recent r/w humans deck that's top 8'd a high level tournament.
    Last edited by d3athrow: 5/20/2012 12:52:34 AM
  • #2
    Loving this Archetype. Just finished my build yesterday that I'll be testing this Friday.

    You mad, Boros?Magic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creatures: 23
    4x Champion of the Parish
    4x Doomed Traveler
    4x Lightning Mauler
    2x Silverblade Paladin
    2x Blade Splicer
    2x Fiend Hunter
    2x Angel of Jubilation
    2x Hero of Oxid Ridge
    1x Zealous Conscripts

    Noncreature Spells: 13
    4x Gather the Townsfolk
    3x Rally the Peasants
    3x Brimstone Volley
    3x Oblivion Ring

    Lands: 24
    4x Clifftop Retreat
    2x Slayers' Stronghold
    7x Mountain
    11x Plains



    SideboardMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    3x Pillar of Flame
    2x Mirran Crusader
    2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    2x Revoke Existence
    2x Grafdigger's Cage
    2x Celestial Purge
    2x Hellrider



    I know I need Cavern of Souls. I haven't had $100 to drop on the set yet XD

    It's still a really rough idea of what I want to run. I'm gonna see how Oxid Ridge plays over Hellrider. I also wanna mess around with Timely, because it simply buys so much time. I had a singleton Gideon Jura, but I took him out. We'll see how it goes this Friday!
    Standard T2
    :symr::symw:Humans:symw::symr:
    4-1-0
    :symb::symg:Pod:symg::symb:
    19-6-0
  • #3
    Quote from TheHoffmonster
    Loving this Archetype. Just finished my build yesterday that I'll be testing this Friday.

    ~snip~

    I know I need Cavern of Souls. I haven't had $100 to drop on the set yet XD

    It's still a really rough idea of what I want to run. I'm gonna see how Oxid Ridge plays over Hellrider. I also wanna mess around with Timely, because it simply buys so much time. I had a singleton Gideon Jura, but I took him out. We'll see how it goes this Friday!

    I didn't think of hellrider at all when making the list, seems like a pretty explosive 4 drop if you run 4 gather's
  • #4
    hows the manabase been? I can't drive myself to play r/w because I hate losing the extra 4 dual lands.
    Currently Playing:
    Standard:
    UW HumansWU
    Record - 49-19-3 - Retired, for now.
    WUDelverUW
    Record - 29-10-1
  • #5
    Quote from Einherjar
    hows the manabase been? I can't drive myself to play r/w because I hate losing the extra 4 dual lands.


    Well you're not running too many redcards, and the ones that you do run are only single R. Personally i've had no issues with the manabase.
    And if you're worried about landing that t2 lightning mauler or stormblood berzerker, you've got atleast 8 red sources with cavern and the dual lands.
  • #6
    Quote from d3athrow
    Well you're not running too many redcards, and the ones that you do run are only single R. Personally i've had no issues with the manabase.
    And if you're worried about landing that t2 lightning mauler or stormblood berzerker, you've got atleast 8 red sources with cavern and the dual lands.


    I've been testing the deck a lot and when your lightning mauler sticks around till turn 4, its an absolute blow-out a lot of the time, but I find him getting killed very quickly. The 5 or so games I've tested the deck against esper control, I just find myself getting terminus'd and doj'd a lot, and rarely get to 6 mana fast enough to drop mauler / hero after a turn 4/5 wrath effect. The times i've been able to do that often ended with me attacking into 2-4 spirits, then getting wrathed again.
    I do like the explosiveness, but I like to be able to have back-up plans for wrath that are better than a 6-7 mana hasted hero. I find leak (or negate, I've ran both) to be far superior against esper and blink decks (which I see a lot of :>)

    Still, with a bit of tweaking and some work, this deck could be very scary. I like r/w a lot and am enjoying working on it in my free time.
    Currently Playing:
    Standard:
    UW HumansWU
    Record - 49-19-3 - Retired, for now.
    WUDelverUW
    Record - 29-10-1
  • #7
    I run a G*W version of the deck...mainly cos of the green champion, but i'm exploring other roads..

    In my list however, i run 4x Loyal Cathar together with 4x Doomed Traveler, while the lists i see in this thread, and the previous one, only run 2-4 Traveler.

    This deck is very strong but can easily be blown out by cards like



    whats your plan against it?

    Depending on your hands, is not always possible to just play an hasted hero the turn after a wrath (expecially if they wrath on T4 and u have 5 mana...lacking 1)

    Slagstorm is even worse sicne it comes a turn earlier and it kills everything but Hero and a BIG champion.

    Soooooo....Plans?
  • #8
    Here's my updated decklist that I took to yesterday's FNM, taking third with a 4-1 record.

    You mad, Boros?Magic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creatures: 23
    4x Champion of the Parish
    4x Doomed Traveler
    4x Lightning Mauler
    2x Silverblade Paladin
    2x Blade Splicer
    2x Fiend Hunter
    2x Hero of Bladehold
    2x Hellrider
    1x Zealous Conscripts

    Noncreature Spells: 13
    4x Gather the Townsfolk
    3x Arc Trail
    3x Brimstone Volley
    3x Oblivion Ring

    Lands: 24
    4x Clifftop Retreat
    2x Slayers' Stronghold
    7x Mountain
    11x Plains



    SideboardMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    3x Pillar of Flame
    2x Mirran Crusader
    2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    2x Revoke Existence
    2x Grafdigger's Cage
    2x Celestial Purge
    2x Hero of Oxid Ridge



    Round 1 vs. RDW:
    Game one he puts on pressure with double Vexing Devil and has me at 8 when I overwhelm him with Hellrider and Human Tokens. Game two goes in similar fashion, where I go down to 2 before killing him. He had Gut Shot in hand, but no way to get lethal. 2-0


    Round 2 vs. GR Aggro:
    Round 1, double Huntmaster gets there. Round two, I take a mull to 5 and keep three land, O-Ring, Fiend Hunter. He Silvirhearts on a Huntmaster and I can't do anything. This is probably our worst matchup anyway. 0-2

    Round 3 vs. Monowhite Humans:
    This kid seemed fairly new to FNM and was playing a weaker monowhite version of our deck. Basically, I was doing everything he wanted to do. I 2-0
    d him within 10 minutes. 2-0

    Round 4 vs. Naya Pod:
    I was really not looking forward to this matchup, and game one went just as I excpected. He got his early threats, held me off with Blade Splicer, and Gavony'd dorks to get in there.

    Game two, I Arc Trail'ed two of his dorks and managed to keep him off of crucial mana.

    Game three I pretty much got the nuts and did some disgusting Hellrider Shenanigans. 2-1

    Round 5 vs. Boros Humans:

    Ah, the mirror match. If there was one difference in our decks that gave me the edge, it was that he didn't run Arc Trail. He took game one with Hero's and Mirran Crusaders, but two and three didn't go his way at all, with me Pillar of Flameing his Travelers and dropping Oxid Ridge with Hellrider right after. 2-1



    Overall, if there's any advice for me to give, RUN ARC TRAIL. I can't stress enough how much of a house that card is. It kills way too many relevant things not to be maindeck.
    Standard T2
    :symr::symw:Humans:symw::symr:
    4-1-0
    :symb::symg:Pod:symg::symb:
    19-6-0
  • #9
    Quote from TheHoffmonster
    Here's my updated decklist that I took to yesterday's FNM, taking third with a 4-1 record.

    You mad, Boros?Magic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    Creatures: 23
    4x Champion of the Parish
    4x Doomed Traveler
    4x Lightning Mauler
    2x Silverblade Paladin
    2x Blade Splicer
    2x Fiend Hunter
    2x Hero of Bladehold
    2x Hellrider
    1x Zealous Conscripts

    Noncreature Spells: 13
    4x Gather the Townsfolk
    3x Arc Trail
    3x Brimstone Volley
    3x Oblivion Ring

    Lands: 24
    4x Clifftop Retreat
    2x Slayers' Stronghold
    7x Mountain
    11x Plains

    SideboardMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
    3x Pillar of Flame
    2x Mirran Crusader
    2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    2x Revoke Existence
    2x Grafdigger's Cage
    2x Celestial Purge
    2x Hero of Oxid Ridge

    Round 1 vs. RDW:
    Game one he puts on pressure with double Vexing Devil and has me at 8 when I overwhelm him with Hellrider and Human Tokens. Game two goes in similar fashion, where I go down to 2 before killing him. He had Gut Shot in hand, but no way to get lethal. 2-0


    Round 2 vs. GR Aggro:
    Round 1, double Huntmaster gets there. Round two, I take a mull to 5 and keep three land, O-Ring, Fiend Hunter. He Silvirhearts on a Huntmaster and I can't do anything. This is probably our worst matchup anyway. 0-2

    Round 3 vs. Monowhite Humans:
    This kid seemed fairly new to FNM and was playing a weaker monowhite version of our deck. Basically, I was doing everything he wanted to do. I 2-0
    d him within 10 minutes. 2-0

    Round 4 vs. Naya Pod:
    I was really not looking forward to this matchup, and game one went just as I excpected. He got his early threats, held me off with Blade Splicer, and Gavony'd dorks to get in there.

    Game two, I Arc Trail'ed two of his dorks and managed to keep him off of crucial mana.

    Game three I pretty much got the nuts and did some disgusting Hellrider Shenanigans. 2-1

    Round 5 vs. Boros Humans:

    Ah, the mirror match. If there was one difference in our decks that gave me the edge, it was that he didn't run Arc Trail. He took game one with Hero's and Mirran Crusaders, but two and three didn't go his way at all, with me Pillar of Flameing his Travelers and dropping Oxid Ridge with Hellrider right after. 2-1



    Overall, if there's any advice for me to give, RUN ARC TRAIL. I can't stress enough how much of a house that card is. It kills way too many relevant things not to be maindeck.

    I can't help but comment on the lack of any control matches. Not just you but all these Boros tournament reports. My meta is heavily dominated by decks running at least 12 board wipes (Whipflare, DoJ, Black Sun, Terminate, etc). I have a real tough time beating those decks. Is my meta that much different that everyone else's?
  • #10
    Quote from Woocls
    I can't help but comment on the lack of any control matches. Not just you but all these Boros tournament reports. My meta is heavily dominated by decks running at least 12 board wipes (Whipflare, DoJ, Black Sun, Terminate, etc). I have a real tough time beating those decks. Is my meta that much different that everyone else's?

    I have a few standout control decks piloted by really great players at my lgs (Venser, Grixis, UB, Miracle, etc.) This was my first week with the deck, however, and a lot of the better players were heading out for Grand Prix.

    Cavern of Souls obviously gives us an edge against countermagic. As far as board wipes go, we really just need to focus on not over-extending. I'll swing with a Champ/Lightning Mauler for 4 all day. Doomed Traveler gives us a little bit of stability, and Gather The Townsfolk helps us reload after a wipe. It's obviously gonna be a completely different playstyle, but not one that we can't turn in our favor.
    Standard T2
    :symr::symw:Humans:symw::symr:
    4-1-0
    :symb::symg:Pod:symg::symb:
    19-6-0
  • #11
    Quote from TheHoffmonster
    I have a few standout control decks piloted by really great players at my lgs (Venser, Grixis, UB, Miracle, etc.) This was my first week with the deck, however, and a lot of the better players were heading out for Grand Prix.

    Cavern of Souls obviously gives us an edge against countermagic. As far as board wipes go, we really just need to focus on not over-extending. I'll swing with a Champ/Lightning Mauler for 4 all day. Doomed Traveler gives us a little bit of stability, and Gather The Townsfolk helps us reload after a wipe. It's obviously gonna be a completely different playstyle, but not one that we can't turn in our favor.

    The real issue is that board wipe followed by Tamiyo/Gideon to lock down my next creature and tokens/Batterskull or another boardwipe to stop the following creature while building her up to ultimate or just picking off my creatures with gideon. If I dodge that turn 2-4 mass removal I can usually push through enough damage but they run so many that I can't dodge enough. Slayers' stronghold helps but not after a gideon forces me to kill him instead of my opponent or a Batterskull gets in the way. If I hold back my aggro deck becomes a mid-range deck with underwhelming creatures.

    That being said the deck just dominates ramp and other aggro decks.
  • #12
    Quote from Woocls
    The real issue is that board wipe followed by Tamiyo/Gideon to lock down my next creature and tokens/Batterskull or another boardwipe to stop the following creature while building her up to ultimate or just picking off my creatures with gideon. If I dodge that turn 2-4 mass removal I can usually push through enough damage but they run so many that I can't dodge enough. Slayers' stronghold helps but not after a gideon forces me to kill him instead of my opponent or a Batterskull gets in the way. If I hold back my aggro deck becomes a mid-range deck with underwhelming creatures.

    That being said the deck just dominates ramp and other aggro decks.

    Zealous Conscripts called, they wanna steal your Gideon and hit you for 9.

    I actually have a pretty rough matchup against RG aggro. Huntmaster just puts such a slow on us.
    Standard T2
    :symr::symw:Humans:symw::symr:
    4-1-0
    :symb::symg:Pod:symg::symb:
    19-6-0
  • #13
    Quote from TheHoffmonster
    Zealous Conscripts called, they wanna steal your Gideon and hit you for 9.

    I actually have a pretty rough matchup against RG aggro. Huntmaster just puts such a slow on us.

    Yeah if I can hit 1 of 2 in the deck to steal a gideon I'm in great shape. I run several burn for huntmaster and tokens. Sure they still get a token but I've killed the maker and they usually just have to block with the token or die.
  • #14
    Quote from TheHoffmonster
    Zealous Conscripts called, they wanna steal your Gideon and hit you for 9.

    I actually have a pretty rough matchup against RG aggro. Huntmaster just puts such a slow on us.


    Problem is

    If you get lucky enough to get your conscript right aftwer a wrath you better hope they are at 9 life, cos by stealing Gideon (a PW with no ultimate), you wont be able to do more than that, and from the turn after they are gonna stall you.

    This is a damn pure aggro deck. Mass removals are gonn destroy it. So since this is the beginning of the thread, we better start to find solutions, strategies against them.

    The top decks right now are mostly RG (thanks to the delver-killing land). RG Aggro, RG Ramp, RGw, Zombies, few controls.

    Each one of them can, and will, use a mass removal spell. If not main, then in side.

    The red Haste guy, or even the berserker, are good for high dmg, but using all slots for high dmg leaves you open to....mass destruction.

    In the current standard i wouldnt play a deck like this without a very good anti-wrath strategy (other than the usual "don't overxtend", or "kill him before he kills you" a.k.a., before turn 3-2).

    Green based decks use 4-of Geist not bcos it's a 2/1 haste but for Undying. Same reason why i play Loyal Cathar.

    From what i've seen...after a wrath/slagstorm/whatever...usual R/W Humans lists are left with a 1/1 spirit.....how can you hope to win like that?

    Little Note:
    All lists placed above Boros Human with red, had Galvanic Blasts + Arc trail (main or side). And obviously, all ramp lists had like 4-5 mass removal. I think if we finsd a solution to this, we're set for tier 1
  • #15
    Quote from Soulgix
    Problem is

    If you get lucky enough to get your conscript right aftwer a wrath you better hope they are at 9 life, cos by stealing Gideon (a PW with no ultimate), you wont be able to do more than that, and from the turn after they are gonna stall you.

    This is a damn pure aggro deck. Mass removals are gonn destroy it. So since this is the beginning of the thread, we better start to find solutions, strategies against them.

    The top decks right now are mostly RG (thanks to the delver-killing land). RG Aggro, RG Ramp, RGw, Zombies, few controls.

    Each one of them can, and will, use a mass removal spell. If not main, then in side.

    The red Haste guy, or even the berserker, are good for high dmg, but using all slots for high dmg leaves you open to....mass destruction.

    In the current standard i wouldnt play a deck like this without a very good anti-wrath strategy (other than the usual "don't overxtend", or "kill him before he kills you" a.k.a., before turn 3-2).

    Green based decks use 4-of Geist not bcos it's a 2/1 haste but for Undying. Same reason why i play Loyal Cathar.

    From what i've seen...after a wrath/slagstorm/whatever...usual R/W Humans lists are left with a 1/1 spirit.....how can you hope to win like that?

    Little Note:
    All lists placed above Boros Human with red, had Galvanic Blasts + Arc trail (main or side). And obviously, all ramp lists had like 4-5 mass removal. I think if we finsd a solution to this, we're set for tier 1


    I think that the best idea for the "Fight the Wrath" Plan is playing smarter than your opponent. Part of me thinks that holding back a hero can't be that bad of a desicison, and has anyone tested a list without thalia, and included a few burn spells as well?

    In my list i tend to run more red creatures, so i feel my mana balance allows the extra room for a few burn spells, such as brimstone volley, what i'm not sure about is the possiblity of thunderous wrath, no deck has touched it, and i feel that it may be decent as a 2 of in the deck
  • #16
    Quote from ProGamer
    I think that the best idea for the "Fight the Wrath" Plan is playing smarter than your opponent. Part of me thinks that holding back a hero can't be that bad of a desicison, and has anyone tested a list without thalia, and included a few burn spells as well?

    In my list i tend to run more red creatures, so i feel my mana balance allows the extra room for a few burn spells, such as brimstone volley, what i'm not sure about is the possiblity of thunderous wrath, no deck has touched it, and i feel that it may be decent as a 2 of in the deck

    I run thunderous in mine and I'm thinking about upping it to 3 instead of 2. Miracled it's HUGE and hard cast it can usually be enough to finish off an opponent we can't attack. The games I get it I've not been disappointed. 6cmc for 5 damage is a pretty solid finisher.
  • #17
    Vigilante Justice

    Why don't we use this card? Everytime we drop a creature expect for hellrider we can ping them for 1. It has synergy with nearly every creature in the deck and Gather the Townsfolk. Even dropping a Thatcher Revolt would be a good move. Ping for 3 attach for 3+ more (depending on what else is out on the field. Not sure if it would slow the deck down too much or even speed it up. Just a thought.
  • #18
    Vigilante Justice

    Why don't we use this card? Everytime we drop a creature expect for hellrider we can ping them for 1. It has synergy with nearly every creature in the deck and Gather the Townsfolk. Even dropping a Thatcher Revolt would be a good move. Ping for 3 attach for 3+ more (depending on what else is out on the field. Not sure if it would slow the deck down too much or even speed it up. Just a thought.


    Because Hellrider is much better for 4cc, and even then they're both fighting the 4cc spot with Hero of bladehold/oxid ridge. Also seems like more of a johnny card than a tournament card.
  • #19
    Vigilante Justice

    Why don't we use this card? Everytime we drop a creature expect for hellrider we can ping them for 1. It has synergy with nearly every creature in the deck and Gather the Townsfolk. Even dropping a Thatcher Revolt would be a good move. Ping for 3 attach for 3+ more (depending on what else is out on the field. Not sure if it would slow the deck down too much or even speed it up. Just a thought.


    it costs 4 and does nothing for your board position. if you need something like it, you might as well just use Kessig Malcontents.
    Quote from xChaospherex

    Take your monoblack deck, then set aside 14 swamps. Add 4 Creeping Tar Pits, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Drowned Catacombs, and 2 Jwar isle Refuge and add 4 Jace, the Mindsculptors. Your monoblack deck is instantly better. Better yet, drop those refuges, throw in some islands and some mana leaks, and lo and behold, you're now playing a real deck. Congratulations. Welcome to the world of competitive M:TG.
  • #20
    Quote from Woocls
    I run thunderous in mine and I'm thinking about upping it to 3 instead of 2. Miracled it's HUGE and hard cast it can usually be enough to finish off an opponent we can't attack. The games I get it I've not been disappointed. 6cmc for 5 damage is a pretty solid finisher.


    Eh. I find Brimstone more effective for a 5 damage burn. Obviously miracles can be amazing though.
    Currently Playing:
    Standard:
    UW HumansWU
    Record - 49-19-3 - Retired, for now.
    WUDelverUW
    Record - 29-10-1
  • #21
    The problem I see with burn is how it retards overall damage output at most turns on curve. Every creature we pack from 1-4 cmc have more potential damage then a single burn spell. The only time burn is good is when you are reaching off curve or to clear a path for your army and I don't really feel that TW is optimal for that. Hard casting it is only a desperate act as your goal is to win turns before it could be casted. The same can mostly be said for volley as well, as I feel our 3 drop slot has much better play then it, outside of off curve reach.
  • #22
    Quote from Macra
    The problem I see with burn is how it retards overall damage output at most turns on curve. Every creature we pack from 1-4 cmc have more potential damage then a single burn spell. The only time burn is good is when you are reaching off curve or to clear a path for your army and I don't really feel that TW is optimal for that. Hard casting it is only a desperate act as your goal is to win turns before it could be casted. The same can mostly be said for volley as well, as I feel our 3 drop slot has much better play then it, outside of off curve reach.



    I run 3 Arc Trail in the main, 3 Brimstone in the main, and 3 Pillar in the side. I feel like burn gives to Boros Humans what countermagic gives to Haunted Humans; something to do when our dudes can't get there. On the play, killing a bird and getting an extra two damage is fantastic. Pillar nerfs the **** out of Gravecrawlers, Strangleroots, and Doomed Traveler. As for Brimstone, I enjoy and nice explosive 5 damage out of nowhere, though I may drop the count to 2 in place for a third Silverblade Paladin (he's just so good.)


    Game day is this friday/saturday, and my lgs is doing two standard events. I'll put tournament reports up, and I expect the same from some of you!
    Standard T2
    :symr::symw:Humans:symw::symr:
    4-1-0
    :symb::symg:Pod:symg::symb:
    19-6-0
  • #23
    With so much burn though you must lose a bit on the creature end of things. If you are playing any of these spells in the first 4 turns you are destroying your damage curve and your t4-5 win.
  • #24
    Quote from Macra
    With so much burn though you must lose a bit on the creature end of things. If you are playing any of these spells in the first 4 turns you are destroying your damage curve and your t4-5 win.


    I agree on this. I tried boros color but i felt that...while very useful....dmging spells were only good on later turns, since playing them early could really slow you down.

    Volley: I hardly have 3 mana to leave open in case they kill my creature to do 5 dmg. If i do that on purpose, i'm slowing myself down...A LOT.

    Arc trail is surely an amazing card, as is pillar with recurirng threats....but they are very useful on early turns.....while we may play a paladin/hero/traveler/champion/honor instead.

    Some burn is good. Too much leads to unstable hands...when u hit hard the early turns and then stop totally cos they answered your threats, and you have nothing left on the board.

    Remember this is an aggro format, meaning they will have creatures...so not every game can be won by t4-5. Some game u have to play defense....and these games i prefer a silverblade paladin over a brimstone volely anytime.
  • #25
    Quote from Macra
    With so much burn though you must lose a bit on the creature end of things. If you are playing any of these spells in the first 4 turns you are destroying your damage curve and your t4-5 win.

    The creatre:instant/sorcery ratio of my build really isn't enough to screw up my tempo. One thing humans lack is evasion, and a Blade Splicer golem on turn three against us is a serious detriment. Pinging their dork on turn two and getting in for a total of three damage is still fine. Sure, we wanna win the race; but sometimes that's accomplished by slowing them down.
    Standard T2
    :symr::symw:Humans:symw::symr:
    4-1-0
    :symb::symg:Pod:symg::symb:
    19-6-0
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