This thread is great, i been playing casual with my buddies for about 2 months and im hooked with the game of Magic the gathering. After my friend let me use what i first called "black deck" lol i was hooked and couldnt stop thinking of ways to better his and make a deck of my own. So from there Mono Black Control it was.
I have collected quite a few cards these last 2 months and heres the deck that i now currently own and im taking to my VERY FIRST FNM this upcoming week. YOU guys have been a great influence and have helped alot with all your ideas and comments. Lets keep it up, MBC baby lol
I forgot all about Nihil Spellbomb. Added to Utility section of Primer.
Running it maindeck isn't really questionable anymore with all of the Flashback cards that see play. It replaces itself, So at its worst it is :1mana::symb: : Draw a card.
i think i'd pick Consume Spirit over Exsanguinate..CS has the option of hitting creatures and planeswalkers too. with a liliana v.3's ultimate and maybe some ramp and you have a removal, finisher and anti-walker, all in one card.
how about these?
Gruesome Encore - great sideboard against WRR! wait for their big guys to hit the graveyard, then use it against them..oh, and it exiles the fatty as well!
Spine of Ish Sha - works well in a late game type of MBC.sort of a mini-Karn that hits anything that's giving your deck problems..works well with Trading Post too.
@FuxAlt here is my list. I recently modified it without the wellspring engine adding in sign in blood and Spheres, but had worse results. Even tried Lashwrithe and Bloodline Keepers. Here is my post from last week:
4 Black Sun's Zenith
2 Duress
2 Go for the Throat
4 Ichor Wellspring
2 Mycosynth Wellspring
4 Pristine Talisman
4 Sorin's Vengeance
1 Spine of Ish Sah
2 Throne of Geth
Sideboard:
2 Barter in Blood
3 Curse of Death's Hold
2 Diabolic Revelation
2 Doom Blade
2 Duress
2 Mutilate
2 Tormod's Crypt
Playtested my MBC deck above on MWS and was 12-1, only loss to MonoBlack Zombies 1-2. Did not draw enough sweepers. People usually wasted their Manaleaks on Nighthawks or Solemns, Duress got rid of the rest. This clears the way for Sorin Combo. Any deck without Counterspells is screwed. Pristine Talisman is a beast against Aggro. Most ran out of gas around turn 5-7.
Went against the following decks, mostly without SBing:
UG Splinterfright
MonoBlack Zombies
BR Zombie/Vampire
UB Zombies
Red Deck Wins
UR Delver
UB Delver
UW Delver
BUG Pod (My favorite match: opp at 35 life via Thragtusk+Image+Metamorph. At 7 life, I BSZ into Sorin into Vengeance. #PlayerLost)
UW Venser Control
W Humans
UR Mill
BR Control (I think)
Obviously a Sorin Ramp build which is missing from your sample lists.
@ rawskillz you really need to be playing 4 solemn's or zero. 1 sloemn is not going to help your decklist. To be honest there is no way I would play this deck without 4 solemns. It serves soooo many purposes. Its gets a land, is a chump blocker, draws a card when it dies, and can be played on turn 3 with sphere aceleration. I have made some changes ( for testing purposes) but I dont know if this is right. Here is the deck as it sits now:
Ok I know some of the choices look funny or questionable but that's why I am posting. I want to know what everyone thinks. I moved all of the discard to the sideboard obviously but I dont know know if that is a good idea. Torpor orb is fantastic against creature come into play effects. I won a game last week against zombies because his messenger was basically useless. Hex parasite I am trying out because I like the fact that it stops planeswalkers and if the board is clear it can get in for some significant damage.
I like the fact that bluishgreen is running 2 dismember instaed of doom blade. It makes all for spot removal spells very versatile and even though it doesnt kill a wurmcoil, it makes it a 1/1 which I have no problem with. We are not killing it, they don't gain 6 life a swing, and they do not get two 3/3's. Seems like a no brainer and I will most likely be switching to the dismember.
My main deck changes are because karn is a house and with the 7 (11 with solemn) acceleration cards he can come down turn 5 and I think we can alll agree that he can just win games. I added the 4th tailsman as well being able to gain 2,3,4 life a turn and negating an attck by your opponet is awesome. Let me know what you guys think.
You cant play solemn turn 3 in this deck.
I also would take out sphere...you dont ever need that much ramp.
I would add in 2 druidic satchels, they are outstanding 100% of the time.
Are you saying that I cant because it a bad idea? Turn 2 shpere, turn 3 = solemn. If I put 2 satchels in and take out the spheres I have 1 spot left. Curse of deaths hold? Elixer of immortality? Or put the hand disruption back in?
Ahh... thanks M13, we can once again make tier 2 MBC decks.
I have an unnatural love for MBC and always try to run it in standard when possible. Getting mutilte, nighthawk, SiB and duress back is amazing. A new MBC focused Lili is interesting.
I've replaced sims with Lil 3.0 since they fill the same role. So far she is not that impressive.
Having 6 sweepers is very nice, especially with the 2 hexproof legends. I'm still having issues with strangeroot geist and especially swords that hit the table. I almost want to run ratchet bomb main so I can deal with swords. I may swamp the Lili's for ratchet bomb but it will kill the talismans and I won't have a 4 mana swamp searcher. I'm not sure what to do.
I've been playing this on cockatice and my biggest problems are with control. So many dead removal cards.
No having the blue for ponder and alchemy is huge. I've been playing solar flare and I miss the early counters and later card search that digs for awesome "top decks". MBC is nice since the removal is great and I love the consistency of one color.
Ahh... thanks M13, we can once again make tier 2 MBC decks.
I have an unnatural love for MBC and always try to run it in standard when possible. Getting mutilte, nighthawk, SiB and duress back is amazing. A new MBC focused Lili is interesting.
I've replaced sims with Lil 3.0 since they fill the same role. So far she is not that impressive.
Having 6 sweepers is very nice, especially with the 2 hexproof legends. I'm still having issues with strangeroot geist and especially swords that hit the table.
I run Vile Rebirth in the sideboard for Geist and Messenger. Save one mana for Rebirth after your removal spell and YOU get a creature back from the graveyard instead of them
Imagine this scenario: Disciple of Bolas sacrificing a Lashwrithe equipped creature, drawing five or six cards, potentially drawing another Disciple of Bolas. Equip to first Disciple for 2 life which the Disciples conveniently provide, sacrificing it to the second Disciple. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Seems pretty cool. I mean, if you like storm combo decks.
@ BluishGreen - Druidic Satchel is pretty amazing. I've started testing it and am loving it. I've been testing your build and a revised one of mine, which is somewhat similar. I'd like to get your opinion on 2 things - Despise vs Duress? I'm wondering if Despise might be better since PW's are so challenging for us to deal with. Second, the main thing that I miss when running your list that mine has is Mimic Vat. Running Vat makes board wipes even more pleasing, as losing a creature you may have out is no biggie. Have you tested Vat?
I've tried making an MBC deck, but it ended up mostly as a discard/hand disruption deck.
It is fun seeing your opponent with 0 hand. However, It can get frustrating though when they have 0 hand and you have a number of duress/despise/distress in your hand. They just end up as dead cards.
I also found that the deck needs more draw (possibly adding Tezz's Gambit or Gix Probe). My Version does not have any PW and I rely on Vampire Nighthawk, Inkmoth, G Titan or Wurmcoil to win (which is sometimes hard to do when you're top decking lands).
Are you saying that I cant because it a bad idea? Turn 2 shpere, turn 3 = solemn. If I put 2 satchels in and take out the spheres I have 1 spot left. Curse of deaths hold? Elixer of immortality? Or put the hand disruption back in?
oh, well you said talisman in your original post for solemn turn 3...haha
threw me off.
i absolutely love curse of deaths hold...i run 2...it shuts down ANY and ALL aggro decks.
im not trying to boast, but if you try out my list, i guarantee you will win and you will like it.
i just played out 4 games online and went 8-0
@ BluishGreen - Druidic Satchel is pretty amazing. I've started testing it and am loving it. I've been testing your build and a revised one of mine, which is somewhat similar. I'd like to get your opinion on 2 things - Despise vs Duress? I'm wondering if Despise might be better since PW's are so challenging for us to deal with. Second, the main thing that I miss when running your list that mine has is Mimic Vat. Running Vat makes board wipes even more pleasing, as losing a creature you may have out is no biggie. Have you tested Vat?
duress also hits planeswalkers. i run 4 duress and 2 distress...it is soooo much better.
ive never tested vat and wouldnt swap anything out for it...ive seen a friend of mine play with it and i wasnt too impressed. i think vat can be good, but once i land a big guy, most people scoop because their hand is wrecked or empty and they have no board presence. i wouldnt worry too much about early game honestly. this deck pulls sh*t out of nowhere haha
if you wanted to swap vat in, i would mayyyybe take out a talisman and a solemn or something like that...i dont know really...this list is soo tight its hard to say.
duress also hits planeswalkers. i run 4 duress and 2 distress...it is soooo much better.
Could you shed some light on why you and everyone else seems to go with Duress and Distressover using Despise ? I realize that sometimes you might use despise and hit nothing from their hand and that's why you would use Distress, but I can't seem to think of why you wouldn't split the other slots between the two.
Because black has the least amount of answers for non creature cards. Killing creatures is what black does best. Which makes Despise pretty bad compared to Duress and Distress.
Black needs proactive answers to things like Oblivion Ring and Swords. Not creatures. A combo of Duress and Distress takes everything black has trouble dealing with, and Distress can even take creatures if need be.
Duress wiffs less than Despise. Duress hits: Walkers, Artifacts, Instants, Soceries and Enchantments. 90% of the time Duress will hit an answer to your threat(s). Despise is good early to keep you opponent off of threats.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
For Lists, Click Here EDH: GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU. UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax RW: Gisela, Boros Control RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?! B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
I find despise to be great. It's not the creatures p/t that gives us fits, it's the added abilities they have from entering the board. Zealous/Resto/Blade Splicer/Snapcaster/etc are the issues. Despise takes away those creatures from getting their abilities and advantage. Duress still hits Planeswalkers and more but main boarding duress in an aggro meta isn't smart. As the format slows down (it is) duress will become better. But we're not there yet.
To me the ability to proactively deal with counters, removal, ramp and walkers are more important than hitting a non-titan creature with an ETB ability. If you keep a ramp deck off of ramp early with duress/distress you have a better chance to win than using Despise to possibly nab a mana dork. You can always board in Despise against heavy aggro decks like Humans. I would stick to MD Duress with SB Despise. That is my view on it anyway.
For Lists, Click Here EDH: GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU. UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax RW: Gisela, Boros Control RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?! B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
That's the point of going with a duress/distress combo. Both can take cards black struggles answering (equipment, auras, planeswalkers, etc), and distress can take creatures if need be (geist of saint traft, zealous conscripts, prime time).
Despise is usually going to be a completely dead draw mid to late game. Duress and Distress will at least take any removal or counters they have.
It's far more important for targeted discard to be able to take non creature than the other way around. Plus Distress can act as a Despise if absolutely necessary (taking st. traft if you don't have a sweeper, or a zealous conscript).
This has always been the case, which is why Duress has been so successful and Ostracize was a complete bust. Black struggles with non creature permanents, not the other way around.
Duress is better than Despise. We can deal with creatures. We can't deal with a Sword of ___ once it hits the table or a mana leak on the critical turn 3 mutilate or the O-ring on your Sorin.
Hey greenish blue, I was going to try your deck on cockatrice then saw the increasing ambition and 22 lands. How does a control deck run well with only 22 lands!?!
Let me know what I missed. Suggestions for improvements encouraged.
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I have collected quite a few cards these last 2 months and heres the deck that i now currently own and im taking to my VERY FIRST FNM this upcoming week. YOU guys have been a great influence and have helped alot with all your ideas and comments. Lets keep it up, MBC baby lol
Without further ado heres my deck
MainDeck
1 Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis
2 Phyrexian Obliterator
2 Bloodgift Demon
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Despise
4 Duress
2 Go for the Throat
4 Sign in Blood
2 Dismember
3 Pristine Talisman
2 Black Sun's Zenith
4 Mutilate
2 Curse of Death's Hold
2 Increasing Ambition
1 Sorin Markov
1 Karn Liberated
24 Swamp
SideBoard
Seriously, being able to neuter a flashback Mana Leak when you need to AND draw a card is beautiful.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
Running it maindeck isn't really questionable anymore with all of the Flashback cards that see play. It replaces itself, So at its worst it is :1mana::symb: : Draw a card.
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how about these?
Gruesome Encore - great sideboard against WRR! wait for their big guys to hit the graveyard, then use it against them..oh, and it exiles the fatty as well!
Spine of Ish Sha - works well in a late game type of MBC.sort of a mini-Karn that hits anything that's giving your deck problems..works well with Trading Post too.
MonoBlack Control
By: GeronimusPrime
Type II
Archive: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=1026352
Main Deck:
4 Solemn Simulacrum
3 Sorin Markov
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Black Sun's Zenith
2 Duress
2 Go for the Throat
4 Ichor Wellspring
2 Mycosynth Wellspring
4 Pristine Talisman
4 Sorin's Vengeance
1 Spine of Ish Sah
2 Throne of Geth
1 Buried Ruin
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Phyrexia's Core
17 Swamp
Sideboard:
2 Barter in Blood
3 Curse of Death's Hold
2 Diabolic Revelation
2 Doom Blade
2 Duress
2 Mutilate
2 Tormod's Crypt
Playtested my MBC deck above on MWS and was 12-1, only loss to MonoBlack Zombies 1-2. Did not draw enough sweepers. People usually wasted their Manaleaks on Nighthawks or Solemns, Duress got rid of the rest. This clears the way for Sorin Combo. Any deck without Counterspells is screwed. Pristine Talisman is a beast against Aggro. Most ran out of gas around turn 5-7.
Went against the following decks, mostly without SBing:
UG Splinterfright
MonoBlack Zombies
BR Zombie/Vampire
UB Zombies
Red Deck Wins
UR Delver
UB Delver
UW Delver
BUG Pod (My favorite match: opp at 35 life via Thragtusk+Image+Metamorph. At 7 life, I BSZ into Sorin into Vengeance. #PlayerLost)
UW Venser Control
W Humans
UR Mill
BR Control (I think)
Obviously a Sorin Ramp build which is missing from your sample lists.
#NowPlaying:
:SymB::SymB::SymB: MonoBlack Control :SymB::SymB::SymB:
4 solemn
4 pristine tailsman
4 mutalite
4 sign in blood
4 vampire nighthawk
3 sphere of the suns
2 go for the throat
2 doom blade
2 black sun's zenith
2 sorrin markov
2 lilianna of the veil
2 grave titan
2 karn liberated
1 curse of death's hold
22 swamp
4 duress
3 despise
3 torpor orb
3 hex parasite
2 memorcide
Ok I know some of the choices look funny or questionable but that's why I am posting. I want to know what everyone thinks. I moved all of the discard to the sideboard obviously but I dont know know if that is a good idea. Torpor orb is fantastic against creature come into play effects. I won a game last week against zombies because his messenger was basically useless. Hex parasite I am trying out because I like the fact that it stops planeswalkers and if the board is clear it can get in for some significant damage.
I like the fact that bluishgreen is running 2 dismember instaed of doom blade. It makes all for spot removal spells very versatile and even though it doesnt kill a wurmcoil, it makes it a 1/1 which I have no problem with. We are not killing it, they don't gain 6 life a swing, and they do not get two 3/3's. Seems like a no brainer and I will most likely be switching to the dismember.
My main deck changes are because karn is a house and with the 7 (11 with solemn) acceleration cards he can come down turn 5 and I think we can alll agree that he can just win games. I added the 4th tailsman as well being able to gain 2,3,4 life a turn and negating an attck by your opponet is awesome. Let me know what you guys think.
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
I also would take out sphere...you dont ever need that much ramp.
I would add in 2 druidic satchels, they are outstanding 100% of the time.
Thanks to xeno for the sig and avvy!!!
I have an unnatural love for MBC and always try to run it in standard when possible. Getting mutilte, nighthawk, SiB and duress back is amazing. A new MBC focused Lili is interesting.
I've replaced sims with Lil 3.0 since they fill the same role. So far she is not that impressive.
Having 6 sweepers is very nice, especially with the 2 hexproof legends. I'm still having issues with strangeroot geist and especially swords that hit the table. I almost want to run ratchet bomb main so I can deal with swords. I may swamp the Lili's for ratchet bomb but it will kill the talismans and I won't have a 4 mana swamp searcher. I'm not sure what to do.
I've been playing this on cockatice and my biggest problems are with control. So many dead removal cards.
No having the blue for ponder and alchemy is huge. I've been playing solar flare and I miss the early counters and later card search that digs for awesome "top decks". MBC is nice since the removal is great and I love the consistency of one color.
What do you think of my list so far?
4 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Grave Titan
Artifacts: 7
3 Pristine Talisman
2 Lashwrithe
2 Batterskull
Instants: 5
2 Tragic Slip
3 Go for the Throat
4 Duress
3 Sign in Blood
2 Black Sun's Zenith
4 Mutilate
Planeswalkers: 4
2 Liliana of the Dark Realms
2 Sorin Markov
Lands: 25
3 Inkmoth Nexus
22 Swamp
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Tragic Slip
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Distress
2 Barter in Blood
2 Phyrexian Obliterator
1 Karn Liberated
B Lover Since '09 ~
Standard:
meh.
Modern:
Urzatron GR
Vintage:
Contol-Slaver UBR
EDH:
Drana B
Jhoira UR
Savra BG
Turned into:
Adun Oakenshield BGR
Sharuum BUW
Turned into:
Memnarch U
KiKi-Jiki R
Turned into:
Godo R
Turned into:
Aurelia RW
The Mimeoplasm UBG
Rasputin Dreamweaver UW
Turned into:
Geist of Saint Traft -French 1v1 UW
Nekusar UBR
I run Vile Rebirth in the sideboard for Geist and Messenger. Save one mana for Rebirth after your removal spell and YOU get a creature back from the graveyard instead of them
Yes, post Vampire decks here:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=431178&highlight=vampires
This thread is for MBC.
@ BluishGreen - Druidic Satchel is pretty amazing. I've started testing it and am loving it. I've been testing your build and a revised one of mine, which is somewhat similar. I'd like to get your opinion on 2 things - Despise vs Duress? I'm wondering if Despise might be better since PW's are so challenging for us to deal with. Second, the main thing that I miss when running your list that mine has is Mimic Vat. Running Vat makes board wipes even more pleasing, as losing a creature you may have out is no biggie. Have you tested Vat?
It is fun seeing your opponent with 0 hand. However, It can get frustrating though when they have 0 hand and you have a number of duress/despise/distress in your hand. They just end up as dead cards.
I also found that the deck needs more draw (possibly adding Tezz's Gambit or Gix Probe). My Version does not have any PW and I rely on Vampire Nighthawk, Inkmoth, G Titan or Wurmcoil to win (which is sometimes hard to do when you're top decking lands).
Standard
UR Control
Modern
Merfolk
Burn
Avacyn did nothing wrong!
Purify Innistrad!
#Purge
oh, well you said talisman in your original post for solemn turn 3...haha
threw me off.
i absolutely love curse of deaths hold...i run 2...it shuts down ANY and ALL aggro decks.
im not trying to boast, but if you try out my list, i guarantee you will win and you will like it.
i just played out 4 games online and went 8-0
oh and if anyone wants to test on cockatrice...im on there now and will be on for a while. same name. ive already played one mirror.
duress also hits planeswalkers. i run 4 duress and 2 distress...it is soooo much better.
ive never tested vat and wouldnt swap anything out for it...ive seen a friend of mine play with it and i wasnt too impressed. i think vat can be good, but once i land a big guy, most people scoop because their hand is wrecked or empty and they have no board presence. i wouldnt worry too much about early game honestly. this deck pulls sh*t out of nowhere haha
if you wanted to swap vat in, i would mayyyybe take out a talisman and a solemn or something like that...i dont know really...this list is soo tight its hard to say.
Could you shed some light on why you and everyone else seems to go with Duress and Distressover using Despise ? I realize that sometimes you might use despise and hit nothing from their hand and that's why you would use Distress, but I can't seem to think of why you wouldn't split the other slots between the two.
Black needs proactive answers to things like Oblivion Ring and Swords. Not creatures. A combo of Duress and Distress takes everything black has trouble dealing with, and Distress can even take creatures if need be.
Despise is pretty bad IMO.
For Lists, Click Here
EDH:
GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU.
UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat
BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation
UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery
RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven
UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron
BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax
RW: Gisela, Boros Control
RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck
RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?!
B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed
R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
For Lists, Click Here
EDH:
GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU.
UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat
BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation
UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery
RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven
UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron
BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax
RW: Gisela, Boros Control
RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck
RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?!
B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed
R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
Despise is usually going to be a completely dead draw mid to late game. Duress and Distress will at least take any removal or counters they have.
It's far more important for targeted discard to be able to take non creature than the other way around. Plus Distress can act as a Despise if absolutely necessary (taking st. traft if you don't have a sweeper, or a zealous conscript).
This has always been the case, which is why Duress has been so successful and Ostracize was a complete bust. Black struggles with non creature permanents, not the other way around.
Hey greenish blue, I was going to try your deck on cockatrice then saw the increasing ambition and 22 lands. How does a control deck run well with only 22 lands!?!
B Lover Since '09 ~
Standard:
meh.
Modern:
Urzatron GR
Vintage:
Contol-Slaver UBR
EDH:
Drana B
Jhoira UR
Savra BG
Turned into:
Adun Oakenshield BGR
Sharuum BUW
Turned into:
Memnarch U
KiKi-Jiki R
Turned into:
Godo R
Turned into:
Aurelia RW
The Mimeoplasm UBG
Rasputin Dreamweaver UW
Turned into:
Geist of Saint Traft -French 1v1 UW
Nekusar UBR