I was thinking in terms of fighting against control decks .. perhaps a more defensive approach ? cards like autumn's veil , ranger's guile and ascetiscm comes to mind... any recommendations ? I was thinking manabarbs as well but it hurts yourself just as bad without any non land source of mana.
Control decks seek to delay you until they have such an advantage that they can simply crush you. This includes titans, Consecrated Sphinx, and Wurmcoil engines.
I'd be more worried taking the time out to play these defensive spells means you would basically end up controlling your self until they reach their 6th or 7th land drop.
Granted you might have creatures and such to deal with it, but we have no card draw. And there's card disadvantage inherent in trying to protect stuff. So if your hand is 3 protect spells + a creature then your still not really doing better.
I was thinking in terms of fighting against control decks .. perhaps a more defensive approach ? cards like autumn's veil , ranger's guile and ascetiscm comes to mind... any recommendations ? I was thinking manabarbs as well but it hurts yourself just as bad without any non land source of mana.
I think 1 and 2-mana cost spells are a better bet than more expensive ones. I wouldn't hesitate to place down a manabarbs against any and every control deck even with the drawbacks. We can play cheap wolves that become bombs for free or for 2-mana (moonmist), while any bombs on their part are gonna cost something.
The issue is manabarbs is probably gonna get flashfreezed or manaleaked, and one is probably tapping out just to play it. Low cost spells I think are a better answer because we hopefully have 2 lands open in case of a mana leak.
I had 3 shrines and 2 manabarbs when playing against a U/R aggro/control deck that had answers to anything I tried to play. Another reason that was a deadly matchup is that the human side wolves I did have couldn't stop stromkirk noble.
I really hope I can play other types of decks next time but right now in my meta I'm worried about decks with control in them and I think I'm willing to modify my maindeck to make those matchups a priority even at the risk of being weaker to wolf-run ramp and infect decks.
Control decks seek to delay you until they have such an advantage that they can simply crush you. This includes titans, Consecrated Sphinx, and Wurmcoil engines.
I'd be more worried taking the time out to play these defensive spells means you would basically end up controlling your self until they reach their 6th or 7th land drop.
Granted you might have creatures and such to deal with it, but we have no card draw. And there's card disadvantage inherent in trying to protect stuff. So if your hand is 3 protect spells + a creature then your still not really doing better.
so.. how would you deal with it then ? without any creatures at all to deal damage you would have no offense at all.. like you said they attempt to delay our decks with creature destruction and or counterspells .. by using 1 drop defensives our wolves stay on the battlefield and can swing .. rather than having to rebuild our forces from the ground up over and over again.
so.. how would you deal with it then ? without any creatures at all to deal damage you would have no offense at all.. like you said they attempt to delay our decks with creature destruction and or cancels .. by using 1 drop defensives our wolves stay on the battlefield and can swing .. rather than having to rebuild our forces from the ground up over and over again.
It's a hard match up. My success has come from being to keep a steady stream of threats that they have to answer and punishing them for killing my stuff with brimstone volley. That's what the shrine is for.
But I can't help but think that in the end a consecrated sphinx/titan on the field out weigh werewolves on the field.
It's a hard match up. My success has come from being to keep a steady stream of threats that they have to answer and punishing them for killing my stuff with brimstone volley. That's what the shrine is for.
But I can't help but think that in the end a consecrated sphinx/titan on the field out weigh werewolves on the field.
Yes but like previous posts said burn has no synergy with this deck whatsoever and anyone could just unsummon your shrine full of counters or just counter it.. if i wanted to run shrines i would be playing mono red where it would be at its best.
Yes but like previous posts said burn has no synergy with this deck whatsoever and anyone could just unsummon your shrine full of counters or just counter it.. if i wanted to run shrines i would be playing mono red where it would be at its best.
Shrine has won me just as many games as my wolves had. No one runs steel sabotage. It'll draw an O-ring instead of a wolf. And it is a clock. I do agree burning the face isn't much in terms of synergy. I use my shocks and incinerates to burn blockers. Hell I've double incinerated titans several times.
Shrine has won me just as many games as my wolves had. No one runs steel sabotage. It'll draw an O-ring instead of a wolf. And it is a clock. I do agree burning the face isn't much in terms of synergy. I use my shocks and incinerates to burn blockers. Hell I've double incinerated titans several times.
What is your maindeck like if you dont mind me asking ? Just curious.. cause im struggling to find a good balance of burn spells and other spells ..
If I had a shrine out early then starting turn 5 or turn 6 I can't imagine not keeping 3 mana open on the chance they cast something to get rid of it. That way if they try to get rid of it I activate it in response. With only 2 shrines main deck though how often do they actually make it to the field before turn 5? There is that one card that counters activated abilities though, but I'd be more worried about an unsummon or exile spell.
I'm considering running a mono-green and mono-red werewolf deck just to see how it works out. They both have enough wolves in there colors to make the monster count high and maybe I can tap into some moves I couldn't normally do with mixed colors. I'm positive I'm not the only one who has noticed this but the red werewolves and green werewolves both seem to be operating with different goals in mind.
The red werewolves seem to be geared more towards trying to go for the quick kill and end the game before it drags too long. That's why they have a one drop wolf and mostly everything is geared towards swing for big, hard to block damage. Toss in that red card that prevents two creatures from blocking and you swing for game a lot.
The gear wolves seem to be more about getting big creatures out and controlling the board. When the wolves in green transform, they all tend to get really big or make others big as well. A transformed Mayor will pump them all up to the 4/4 threeshold allowing for you to utilize cards like Prey Upon as a version of removal for the deck. Also green tends to be more inclined to keeping it's creatures alive with cards like full moon's rise to regenerate them all and even one wolf has regenerate as an ability. Moonmist also makes it so your creatures can't be damaged and transforms them so I guess that's a form of removal as well.
I'm not going to put much faith into this and I'm not saying this will work out as well as I'd want but there is no harm in trying out mono-colored versions of the deck. Here's what I plan on running for each one to see how things work.
I got no side deck for either of these but I do know that Perilous Myr will be included to deal with the color Crusaders that will plague both of these decks.
Question: If you use Chandra, The Firebrand's -2, wouldn't that allow you to play two spells in one turn and NOT transform your wolves back to human? Werewolf cards say a player has to cast two spells. If you cast one and copy it, you're not triggering the effect.
This might be useful for removal in the late game, or if you want to burn your opponent's face (or possibly for ten if Brimstone Volley's morbid triggers).
Question: If you use Chandra, The Firebrand's -2, wouldn't that allow you to play two spells in one turn and NOT transform your wolves back to human? Werewolf cards say a player has to cast two spells. If you cast one and copy it, you're not triggering the effect.
This might be useful for removal in the late game, or if you want to burn your opponent's face (or possibly for ten if Brimstone Volley's morbid triggers).
Just a thought.
I think copy effect is similar to Reverberate. As in the copied spell is created on the stack, which means it wasn't cast.
This is my first post on these forums so hopefully I follow the rules correctly.
I played Magic when it first came out back in 93' until 97'. I quit for 14 years and just started playing again at the end of September with the release of Innistrad. I have won a few draft tournaments locally and the first friday night magic I played at 6-0 which was Innistrad only constructed.
I just got home from a FNM standard and wanted to post my decklist and results since this thread has been quite helpful in getting me back into playing constructed instead of just drafting.
This was a 62 card deck because frankly I had no idea what to cut down. The nobles were added as a last minute idea and ended up being very helpful overall.
I ended up 10th tonight out of 46 players with 6 round total of 4-2. My match record wasn't enough to get me into the top 8.
This is my first post on these forums so hopefully I follow the rules correctly.
I played Magic when it first came out back in 93' until 97'. I quit for 14 years and just started playing again at the end of September with the release of Innistrad. I have won a few draft tournaments locally and the first friday night magic I played at 6-0 which was Innistrad only constructed.
I just got home from a FNM standard and wanted to post my decklist and results since this thread has been quite helpful in getting me back into playing constructed instead of just drafting.
This was a 62 card deck because frankly I had no idea what to cut down. The nobles were added as a last minute idea and ended up being very helpful overall.
I ended up 10th tonight out of 46 players with 6 round total of 4-2. My match record wasn't enough to get me into the top 8.
Looks like a nice deck! My gut would say to take out 1 Red Sun Zenith and 1 Garruk Relentless, or 2 of one of those. Another option is going down by 1 or 2 Stromkirks (I imagine you'd want to be drawing them no later than turn 3 and they are especially dead with no Shrine of Burning rage to feed lategame).
How did Red Sun Zenith work out? I'm thinking of cutting the two in my main deck and putting in 2 more Incinerate.
I've suggested the Stromkirk Noble in the past, as I think the deck doesn't have nearly enough 1-drops to provide some sort of board presence in the first turn. The only problem I see is that late game they probably won't do much. That said, early game he would be a great distraction while preparing the werewolf strategy.
How did the 2 Garruk Relentless go? I can't decide whether to have 0, 1, or 2 in the maindeck (or at all because every sideboard piece is valuable). He can be a bomb in some games but I've very been leery of playing expensive spells after getting some other 3 and 4-costs spells manaleaked and flashfreezed... it can be a real drag...
Just yesterday I took the M12 Illusions Event Deck, took out the four M11 cards and put in some bounce, added another Lord of the Unreal (for a total of two of those) and asked a friend (who only plays casual) to play it againt my Werewolf Deck and I went lost 2 games and won 1.
That was pretty sad considering he was playing with a slightly upgraded $15 deck that probably wouldn't do well competively. I had decent (if not great) hands. It seems bounce and counters really takes the steam out of werewolves.
I hope I play against tokens and/or infect next time I play Standard.
I have found Garruk Relentless to be VERY helpful actually.
In long games his token generation has been the win for me quite a few times. Deathtouch wolves coming over with a kessig wolf run has been a blessing.
Red Sun's Zenith has been a game winner as well. My local meta is chock full of the blue/red delver decks. I actually had a guy curse me out tonight for RSZing his Phoenix =)
I have been thinking of removing 1 waif and 1 stromkrik to drop it to 60 cards with 24 lands.
Edit: I have been absolutely crushing infect decks. Use all my burn for their first few creatures and just damage them with creatures. Also have been destroying the very popular w/g token decks. Folks laugh at werewolves until you roll over with a flipped instigator gang and kruin outlaw for lethal.
Any opinions?
Also the sideboard is getting a major overhaul. 4 Autumn's Veils are going in to deal with all the B/U control/mill decks.
What do you guys think of stuff like Nihil Spellbomb in the sideboard to stop things like Snapcaster Mage. Also, I'm considering adding Green Sun's Zenith to my deck/sideboard to tutor things like Acidic Slime, or any of my other Werewolf beasties.
What do you guys think of stuff like Nihil Spellbomb in the sideboard to stop things like Snapcaster Mage. Also, I'm considering adding Green Sun's Zenith to my deck/sideboard to tutor things like Acidic Slime, or any of my other Werewolf beasties.
I have Green Sun's Zenith in my deck and it is one of the best cards to draw. It lets you have option of having more Mayors and to toolbox with other creatures. I have a singleton Acidic Slime in mainboard, 2 Kessig Cagebreakers which have been great for the late game when everything gets killed, 1 Splinterfright (for the same reason as Kessig) and 1 Melira in the SB. These 4 cards with GSZ mixed with the werewolves have given a really good early game and a plan for late game. Either you are winning with a werewolf beatdown or with a Cagebreakers swarm.
I originally posted this in the G/W Parallel Lives thread. However, seeing as how my deck makes use of wolves extensively, I thought to post it here too. This is what I have so far:
The idea is to throw out threats my opponent wants to kill/counter. I don't care what gets put in the graveyard because ultimately the idea is to strike with the Cagebreakers for the win condition. Either using Overrun or Gideon will give me the opening I need for the final blow.
...That is if they aren't already dead by then.
Testing starts next week, so I have no stats yet. It's only an idea. Suggestions on changes that would be good to make are always appreciated.
g1 i was on the play gota t1 waif he couldnt casta spell on his turn and it flipped t2 i dropped a full moon's rise and hit him for 4 on t3 i dropped waif as bait he didnt counter so i dropped mayor and he leak'd it i hit him for 4 again my turn 4 i dropped a 2nd mayor he let it through he didnt play on his turn so i hit him for 8 he's at 4 i pass he day's on his turn 4 i sac my enchant and regen my wolves swing for game on my turn
g2 went alot like g1 i got the t1 waif followed by t2 full moons rise nothing on my t3 on t4 i dropped mayor he leak'd it i dropped another and on t5 it was over
round 2 vs wolf run ramp
g1 on t1 i passed no waif this time on his turn i shocked his Bird's on t2 i got mayor t3 i swung and popped moonmist to force transform he dropped a 2nd bird and looked for land i shocked his bird on t4 i dropped outlaw and hit him with both mayor and token it was over on t5 he played thrun on his t4 my t5 i swung b4 blockers were declared i hit moonmist transforming outlaw he blocked a token and still took 14 dmg total outlaw hit for 8 mayor for 3 and token for 3
g2 he got mana screwed and i got a t1 waif t2 full moons rise a t3 outlaw and a t4 mayor with a swing moonmist so the dmg breakdown was something like t2 he went to 16 t3 12 t4 -2 so i got my first t4 kill
2-0
round 3 vs illusion
g1 went alot like g2 against WRR he got nothing and i killed on t4
g2 it came down to a slug fest he hit me repeatedly. This game took like 11-12 turns i ended up winning by swinging with a transformed outlaw forcing him to block and kill it so i popped him for 5 with Brimestone volley
when i swung he was at 5 i was at 1
3-0
round 4 RDw
g1 i got the god hand and so did he but he was on the play by turn 4 he was at 4 i was at 3 and he popped a incinerate for the game
g2 alot like g1 except i was on the play and i killed him on my t4 i was at 5 when i swung for game
g3 went alot diff i drew all burn to start so i played defensive by kill of all his creatures until i had a board ok t6 i swung for game b4 that i hadnt hit him at all my field was full moons rise, instigator gang,kruin outlaw when i swung b4 blockers i popped mist so gang hit for 9 and outlaw hit for 14
4-0
round 5 this is the finals match winner wins the tourny
vs RDW..............wtf
g1 he's on the play and i cnat keep up he wins in 5 turns
g2 i'm on the play and manage to out run him
g3 we trade burn spells for creatures for the first 4 turns but he gets a chandra's phoenix i cant keep dead and beats me down with it
overall it was a good night solid gameplay its definatly one of the fastest decks i've seen other than rdw which gives me hope for werewolves i dont think its as consistent as say U/B control, Solarflare, or WRR but if they aren't expecting to play against wolves or they dont have a good side board for rdw then its a fairly easy win sad thing is most decks that board for RDW or township tokens or U/W humans already have a sideboard for Werewolves so yea it can be tough
Private Mod Note
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"Unfortunately, all of my test animals have died or escaped, so i shall be the final subject. I feel no fear. This is a momentous night."
--Laboratory notes, final entry
If possible, I'd like to get a discussion going on what would be considered an optimal deck against U/B control. I know no 2 decks are exactly alike, but a version of U/B control destroyed me last week while playing standard for the first time (Tuesday Night Magic). Everything else I at least felt I had a shot (although a u/B aggro/controlish deck was pretty brutal too). My second match last Tuesday was against U/B control and in one of the games by turn 5 there were two spellskites out and a couple of turns later 2 consecrated sphinxes.
It seems like the major things that doom our werewolves are counterspells and black removal. Further, lots of card advantage spells (especially with flashback that hurts the chances our wolves survive).
I've only been playing magic about 6 weeks now (exclusively limited) and Standard for about a week, so I'd appreciate any advice from those who have had success against control decks.
The thinking behind this is keeping the creature count low in order to bring more response cards, particularly blue hoser cards like Autumn's Veil and Combust.
Since everything is just gonna get flashfreezed and manaleaked, I figure it would be good to put all our marbles on getting out a shrine early (with only 2 in the deck that seems near impossible to do regularly, so putting 4 in increases are chances).
My reasoning for particular cards is as follows:
Garruk Relentless - potentially card advantage because we could lay down a wolf every turn without needing to cast a spell. This helps us keep mana open as well as passing the turn to let our werewolves flip (supposing they manage to even land on the field). We have plenty of instant spells to use on their turn as well.
Autumn's Veil - to respond to removal and counters when we play our important spells
Torpor Orb - to shut down Snapcaster Mage... how important is this? Is 4 too many? I don't want to be drawing them late but I figure at 3 chances are I'll never hit one before it's too late...
Shrine of the Burning Rage - even with the reduced red spell count - this will be important for killing a sphinx or doing lethal damange on turn 10 if possible (even though it sucks to leave 3 mana open)...
Beast Within - these are still needed I believe to help get rid of the spellskite threat... I wish to include more of these actually since a double spellskite seems to have given my opponent the game because I couldn't attack at all or use kessig wolf-run...
Please let me know your thoughts. It probably seems crazy to go so heavy in one direction but because of how frustrating it was to pay against control I really want to have a gameplan ready for this Tuesday... I won't make something like this my main deck, but I do want to ensure that I could put together the best possible anti-control deck after sideboarding...
If possible, I'd like to get a discussion going on what would be considered an optimal deck against U/B control. I know no 2 decks are exactly alike, but a version of U/B control destroyed me last week while playing standard for the first time (Tuesday Night Magic). Everything else I at least felt I had a shot (although a u/B aggro/controlish deck was pretty brutal too). My second match last Tuesday was against U/B control and in one of the games by turn 5 there were two spellskites out and a couple of turns later 2 consecrated sphinxes.
It seems like the major things that doom our werewolves are counterspells and black removal. Further, lots of card advantage spells (especially with flashback that hurts the chances our wolves survive).
I've only been playing magic about 6 weeks now (exclusively limited) and Standard for about a week, so I'd appreciate any advice from those who have had success against control decks.
The thinking behind this is keeping the creature count low in order to bring more response cards, particularly blue hoser cards like Autumn's Veil and Combust.
Since everything is just gonna get flashfreezed and manaleaked, I figure it would be good to put all our marbles on getting out a shrine early (with only 2 in the deck that seems near impossible to do regularly, so putting 4 in increases are chances).
My reasoning for particular cards is as follows:
Garruk Relentless - potentially card advantage because we could lay down a wolf every turn without needing to cast a spell. This helps us keep mana open as well as passing the turn to let our werewolves flip (supposing they manage to even land on the field). We have plenty of instant spells to use on their turn as well.
Autumn's Veil - to respond to removal and counters when we play our important spells
Torpor Orb - to shut down Snapcaster Mage... how important is this? Is 4 too many? I don't want to be drawing them late but I figure at 3 chances are I'll never hit one before it's too late...
Shrine of the Burning Rage - even with the reduced red spell count - this will be important for killing a sphinx or doing lethal damange on turn 10 if possible (even though it sucks to leave 3 mana open)...
Beast Within - these are still needed I believe to help get rid of the spellskite threat... I wish to include more of these actually since a double spellskite seems to have given my opponent the game because I couldn't attack at all or use kessig wolf-run...
Please let me know your thoughts. It probably seems crazy to go so heavy in one direction but because of how frustrating it was to pay against control I really want to have a gameplan ready for this Tuesday... I won't make something like this my main deck, but I do want to ensure that I could put together the best possible anti-control deck after sideboarding...
4 shrines and 4 torpor orbs is too much imo ... a couple of manabarbs would help u if you get the early game advantage... if you're worried about snapcaster id suggest nihil spellbomb . or of course a few torpor orbs.. the spellskite you could get rid of with ancient grudge... if hes putting out more than 1 quickly.. into the core would be a good choice as well..
I'm sure it's something that's been mentioned here amongst these 60 something pages. But why is Moonmist not an auto 4-of in every list?
It's like a 2cc, instant Overrun with a 1 sided fog in here, IMO. And it helps with one of the biggest problems the deck has and to me that's actually getting your wolves to flip. Most decks I play almost never go a turn without playing something unless their control (which would totally destroy wolves anyway).
I'm sure it's something that's been mentioned here amongst these 60 something pages. But why is Moonmist not an auto 4-of in every list?
It's like a 2cc, instant Overrun with a 1 sided fog in here, IMO. And it helps with one of the biggest problems the deck has and to me that's actually getting your wolves to flip. Most decks I play almost never go a turn without playing something unless their control (which would totally destroy wolves anyway).
Control decks seek to delay you until they have such an advantage that they can simply crush you. This includes titans, Consecrated Sphinx, and Wurmcoil engines.
I'd be more worried taking the time out to play these defensive spells means you would basically end up controlling your self until they reach their 6th or 7th land drop.
Granted you might have creatures and such to deal with it, but we have no card draw. And there's card disadvantage inherent in trying to protect stuff. So if your hand is 3 protect spells + a creature then your still not really doing better.
Standard-
WRG-Naya Humans
EDH-
RUG- Animar
RW- Brion Stoutarm
I think 1 and 2-mana cost spells are a better bet than more expensive ones. I wouldn't hesitate to place down a manabarbs against any and every control deck even with the drawbacks. We can play cheap wolves that become bombs for free or for 2-mana (moonmist), while any bombs on their part are gonna cost something.
The issue is manabarbs is probably gonna get flashfreezed or manaleaked, and one is probably tapping out just to play it. Low cost spells I think are a better answer because we hopefully have 2 lands open in case of a mana leak.
I had 3 shrines and 2 manabarbs when playing against a U/R aggro/control deck that had answers to anything I tried to play. Another reason that was a deadly matchup is that the human side wolves I did have couldn't stop stromkirk noble.
I really hope I can play other types of decks next time but right now in my meta I'm worried about decks with control in them and I think I'm willing to modify my maindeck to make those matchups a priority even at the risk of being weaker to wolf-run ramp and infect decks.
so.. how would you deal with it then ? without any creatures at all to deal damage you would have no offense at all.. like you said they attempt to delay our decks with creature destruction and or counterspells .. by using 1 drop defensives our wolves stay on the battlefield and can swing .. rather than having to rebuild our forces from the ground up over and over again.
It's a hard match up. My success has come from being to keep a steady stream of threats that they have to answer and punishing them for killing my stuff with brimstone volley. That's what the shrine is for.
But I can't help but think that in the end a consecrated sphinx/titan on the field out weigh werewolves on the field.
Standard-
WRG-Naya Humans
EDH-
RUG- Animar
RW- Brion Stoutarm
Yes but like previous posts said burn has no synergy with this deck whatsoever and anyone could just unsummon your shrine full of counters or just counter it.. if i wanted to run shrines i would be playing mono red where it would be at its best.
Shrine has won me just as many games as my wolves had. No one runs steel sabotage. It'll draw an O-ring instead of a wolf. And it is a clock. I do agree burning the face isn't much in terms of synergy. I use my shocks and incinerates to burn blockers. Hell I've double incinerated titans several times.
Standard-
WRG-Naya Humans
EDH-
RUG- Animar
RW- Brion Stoutarm
What is your maindeck like if you dont mind me asking ? Just curious.. cause im struggling to find a good balance of burn spells and other spells ..
4 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Daybreak Ranger
3 Kruin Outlaw
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Instigator Gang
3 Shock
3 Galvanic Blast
3 Full Moon's Rise
4 Moonmist
Sideboard
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Beast Within
3 Dismember
1 Witchbane orb
2 Torpor orb
2 Ambush Viper
it gives me very good results
4 Reckless Waifs
4 Mayor of Avabruck
2 Gatstaf Shepherd
4 Kruin Outlaw
4 Daybreak Ranger
4 Instigator Gang
Spells:
2 Brimstone Volley
3 Shock
3 Incinerate
3 Full Moon's Rise
4 Moonmist
2 Kessig wolf run
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Copperline Gorge
6 Forest
7 Mountain
2 Naturalize
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Beast Within
1 Shock
1 Full Moon's Rise
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Ranger's Guide
SB will change,I know the players and decks, maybe I add some blasphemous act if i see the token players
The red werewolves seem to be geared more towards trying to go for the quick kill and end the game before it drags too long. That's why they have a one drop wolf and mostly everything is geared towards swing for big, hard to block damage. Toss in that red card that prevents two creatures from blocking and you swing for game a lot.
The gear wolves seem to be more about getting big creatures out and controlling the board. When the wolves in green transform, they all tend to get really big or make others big as well. A transformed Mayor will pump them all up to the 4/4 threeshold allowing for you to utilize cards like Prey Upon as a version of removal for the deck. Also green tends to be more inclined to keeping it's creatures alive with cards like full moon's rise to regenerate them all and even one wolf has regenerate as an ability. Moonmist also makes it so your creatures can't be damaged and transforms them so I guess that's a form of removal as well.
I'm not going to put much faith into this and I'm not saying this will work out as well as I'd want but there is no harm in trying out mono-colored versions of the deck. Here's what I plan on running for each one to see how things work.
Mono-Green
4 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Gatstaf Shepherd
3 Daybreak Ranger
4 Villages of Estwald
4 Ulvenward Mystics
2 Grizzled Outcasts
4 Ambush Viper
4 Moonmist
Sorcery: (4)
4 Prey Upon
Enchantments: (4)
4 Full Moon's Rise
Lands: (23)
19 Forests
4 Rootbound Crag
Mono-Red
4 Reckless Waif
4 Village Ironsmith
4 Kurin Outlaw
4 Hanweir Watchkeep
4 Instigator Gang
2 Koth of the Hammer
Instants: (8)
4 Shock
4 Brimstone Volley
4 Arc Trail
Enchantments: (4)
4 Shrine of the Burning Rage
Lands: (23)
23 Mountains
I got no side deck for either of these but I do know that Perilous Myr will be included to deal with the color Crusaders that will plague both of these decks.
This might be useful for removal in the late game, or if you want to burn your opponent's face (or possibly for ten if Brimstone Volley's morbid triggers).
Just a thought.
I think copy effect is similar to Reverberate. As in the copied spell is created on the stack, which means it wasn't cast.
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=REVERBERATE
Standard-
WRG-Naya Humans
EDH-
RUG- Animar
RW- Brion Stoutarm
This is my first post on these forums so hopefully I follow the rules correctly.
I played Magic when it first came out back in 93' until 97'. I quit for 14 years and just started playing again at the end of September with the release of Innistrad. I have won a few draft tournaments locally and the first friday night magic I played at 6-0 which was Innistrad only constructed.
I just got home from a FNM standard and wanted to post my decklist and results since this thread has been quite helpful in getting me back into playing constructed instead of just drafting.
4 Reckless Waif
4 Kruin Outlaw
3 Instigator Gang
4 Stromkirk Noble
3 Daybreak Ranger
4 Mayor of Avabruck
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
Spells
4 Moonmist
3 Galvanic Blast
3 Brimstone Volley
2 Red Sun's Zenith
2 Garruk Relentless
2 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Rootbound Crag
5 Forest
9 Mountain
1 Sword of War and Peace
2 Shrine of Burning Rage
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Blasphemous Act
2 Naturalize
2 Beast Within
This was a 62 card deck because frankly I had no idea what to cut down. The nobles were added as a last minute idea and ended up being very helpful overall.
I ended up 10th tonight out of 46 players with 6 round total of 4-2. My match record wasn't enough to get me into the top 8.
Looks like a nice deck! My gut would say to take out 1 Red Sun Zenith and 1 Garruk Relentless, or 2 of one of those. Another option is going down by 1 or 2 Stromkirks (I imagine you'd want to be drawing them no later than turn 3 and they are especially dead with no Shrine of Burning rage to feed lategame).
How did Red Sun Zenith work out? I'm thinking of cutting the two in my main deck and putting in 2 more Incinerate.
I've suggested the Stromkirk Noble in the past, as I think the deck doesn't have nearly enough 1-drops to provide some sort of board presence in the first turn. The only problem I see is that late game they probably won't do much. That said, early game he would be a great distraction while preparing the werewolf strategy.
How did the 2 Garruk Relentless go? I can't decide whether to have 0, 1, or 2 in the maindeck (or at all because every sideboard piece is valuable). He can be a bomb in some games but I've very been leery of playing expensive spells after getting some other 3 and 4-costs spells manaleaked and flashfreezed... it can be a real drag...
Just yesterday I took the M12 Illusions Event Deck, took out the four M11 cards and put in some bounce, added another Lord of the Unreal (for a total of two of those) and asked a friend (who only plays casual) to play it againt my Werewolf Deck and I went lost 2 games and won 1.
That was pretty sad considering he was playing with a slightly upgraded $15 deck that probably wouldn't do well competively. I had decent (if not great) hands. It seems bounce and counters really takes the steam out of werewolves.
I hope I play against tokens and/or infect next time I play Standard.
I have found Garruk Relentless to be VERY helpful actually.
In long games his token generation has been the win for me quite a few times. Deathtouch wolves coming over with a kessig wolf run has been a blessing.
Red Sun's Zenith has been a game winner as well. My local meta is chock full of the blue/red delver decks. I actually had a guy curse me out tonight for RSZing his Phoenix =)
I have been thinking of removing 1 waif and 1 stromkrik to drop it to 60 cards with 24 lands.
Edit: I have been absolutely crushing infect decks. Use all my burn for their first few creatures and just damage them with creatures. Also have been destroying the very popular w/g token decks. Folks laugh at werewolves until you roll over with a flipped instigator gang and kruin outlaw for lethal.
Any opinions?
Also the sideboard is getting a major overhaul. 4 Autumn's Veils are going in to deal with all the B/U control/mill decks.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=409478
I have Green Sun's Zenith in my deck and it is one of the best cards to draw. It lets you have option of having more Mayors and to toolbox with other creatures. I have a singleton Acidic Slime in mainboard, 2 Kessig Cagebreakers which have been great for the late game when everything gets killed, 1 Splinterfright (for the same reason as Kessig) and 1 Melira in the SB. These 4 cards with GSZ mixed with the werewolves have given a really good early game and a plan for late game. Either you are winning with a werewolf beatdown or with a Cagebreakers swarm.
9 Forest
5 Plains
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Sunpetal Grove
// Creatures
2 Acidic Slime
4 Ambush Viper
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Daybreak Ranger
4 Doomed Traveler
2 Kessig Cagebreakers
4 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Beast Within
3 Intangible Virtue
2 Moonmist
2 Overrun
3 Parallel Lives
1 Angelic Destiny
2 Autumn's Veil
2 Gideon Jura
2 Gitaxian Probe
1 Moonmist
2 Nevermore
2 Noxious Revival
3 Ranger's Guile
The idea is to throw out threats my opponent wants to kill/counter. I don't care what gets put in the graveyard because ultimately the idea is to strike with the Cagebreakers for the win condition. Either using Overrun or Gideon will give me the opening I need for the final blow.
...That is if they aren't already dead by then.
Testing starts next week, so I have no stats yet. It's only an idea. Suggestions on changes that would be good to make are always appreciated.
4x copperline gorge
6x mountain
6x forest
2x kessig wolf run
3x kruin outlaw
3x daybreak ranger
3x instigator gang
4x reckless waif
3x shock
3x incinerate
4x Brimestone Volley
3x Full moon's Rise
ok, fnm was a blast went 4-1 took 2nd /sigh lol
round 1 vs solarflare
g1 i was on the play gota t1 waif he couldnt casta spell on his turn and it flipped t2 i dropped a full moon's rise and hit him for 4 on t3 i dropped waif as bait he didnt counter so i dropped mayor and he leak'd it i hit him for 4 again my turn 4 i dropped a 2nd mayor he let it through he didnt play on his turn so i hit him for 8 he's at 4 i pass he day's on his turn 4 i sac my enchant and regen my wolves swing for game on my turn
g2 went alot like g1 i got the t1 waif followed by t2 full moons rise nothing on my t3 on t4 i dropped mayor he leak'd it i dropped another and on t5 it was over
round 2 vs wolf run ramp
g1 on t1 i passed no waif this time on his turn i shocked his Bird's on t2 i got mayor t3 i swung and popped moonmist to force transform he dropped a 2nd bird and looked for land i shocked his bird on t4 i dropped outlaw and hit him with both mayor and token it was over on t5 he played thrun on his t4 my t5 i swung b4 blockers were declared i hit moonmist transforming outlaw he blocked a token and still took 14 dmg total outlaw hit for 8 mayor for 3 and token for 3
g2 he got mana screwed and i got a t1 waif t2 full moons rise a t3 outlaw and a t4 mayor with a swing moonmist so the dmg breakdown was something like t2 he went to 16 t3 12 t4 -2 so i got my first t4 kill
2-0
round 3 vs illusion
g1 went alot like g2 against WRR he got nothing and i killed on t4
g2 it came down to a slug fest he hit me repeatedly. This game took like 11-12 turns i ended up winning by swinging with a transformed outlaw forcing him to block and kill it so i popped him for 5 with Brimestone volley
when i swung he was at 5 i was at 1
3-0
round 4 RDw
g1 i got the god hand and so did he but he was on the play by turn 4 he was at 4 i was at 3 and he popped a incinerate for the game
g2 alot like g1 except i was on the play and i killed him on my t4 i was at 5 when i swung for game
g3 went alot diff i drew all burn to start so i played defensive by kill of all his creatures until i had a board ok t6 i swung for game b4 that i hadnt hit him at all my field was full moons rise, instigator gang,kruin outlaw when i swung b4 blockers i popped mist so gang hit for 9 and outlaw hit for 14
4-0
round 5 this is the finals match winner wins the tourny
vs RDW..............wtf
g1 he's on the play and i cnat keep up he wins in 5 turns
g2 i'm on the play and manage to out run him
g3 we trade burn spells for creatures for the first 4 turns but he gets a chandra's phoenix i cant keep dead and beats me down with it
overall it was a good night solid gameplay its definatly one of the fastest decks i've seen other than rdw which gives me hope for werewolves i dont think its as consistent as say U/B control, Solarflare, or WRR but if they aren't expecting to play against wolves or they dont have a good side board for rdw then its a fairly easy win sad thing is most decks that board for RDW or township tokens or U/W humans already have a sideboard for Werewolves so yea it can be tough
--Laboratory notes, final entry
If possible, I'd like to get a discussion going on what would be considered an optimal deck against U/B control. I know no 2 decks are exactly alike, but a version of U/B control destroyed me last week while playing standard for the first time (Tuesday Night Magic). Everything else I at least felt I had a shot (although a u/B aggro/controlish deck was pretty brutal too). My second match last Tuesday was against U/B control and in one of the games by turn 5 there were two spellskites out and a couple of turns later 2 consecrated sphinxes.
It seems like the major things that doom our werewolves are counterspells and black removal. Further, lots of card advantage spells (especially with flashback that hurts the chances our wolves survive).
I've only been playing magic about 6 weeks now (exclusively limited) and Standard for about a week, so I'd appreciate any advice from those who have had success against control decks.
10x Mountain
6x Forest
4x Rootbound Crag
1x Copperline Gorge
2x Kessig Wolf Run
Creatures (16)
4x Reckless Waif
4x Mayor of Avabruck
2x Kruin Outlaw
2x Daybreak Ranger
2x Instigator Gang
2x Phyrexian Metamorph
2x Garruk Relentless
Support (8)
4x Autumn's Veil
4x Torpor Orb
Burn/Removal (12)
4x Shrine of Burning Rage
1x Beast Within
4x Brimestone Volley
2x Incinerate
The thinking behind this is keeping the creature count low in order to bring more response cards, particularly blue hoser cards like Autumn's Veil and Combust.
Since everything is just gonna get flashfreezed and manaleaked, I figure it would be good to put all our marbles on getting out a shrine early (with only 2 in the deck that seems near impossible to do regularly, so putting 4 in increases are chances).
My reasoning for particular cards is as follows:
Garruk Relentless - potentially card advantage because we could lay down a wolf every turn without needing to cast a spell. This helps us keep mana open as well as passing the turn to let our werewolves flip (supposing they manage to even land on the field). We have plenty of instant spells to use on their turn as well.
Autumn's Veil - to respond to removal and counters when we play our important spells
Torpor Orb - to shut down Snapcaster Mage... how important is this? Is 4 too many? I don't want to be drawing them late but I figure at 3 chances are I'll never hit one before it's too late...
Shrine of the Burning Rage - even with the reduced red spell count - this will be important for killing a sphinx or doing lethal damange on turn 10 if possible (even though it sucks to leave 3 mana open)...
Beast Within - these are still needed I believe to help get rid of the spellskite threat... I wish to include more of these actually since a double spellskite seems to have given my opponent the game because I couldn't attack at all or use kessig wolf-run...
Please let me know your thoughts. It probably seems crazy to go so heavy in one direction but because of how frustrating it was to pay against control I really want to have a gameplan ready for this Tuesday... I won't make something like this my main deck, but I do want to ensure that I could put together the best possible anti-control deck after sideboarding...
4 shrines and 4 torpor orbs is too much imo ... a couple of manabarbs would help u if you get the early game advantage... if you're worried about snapcaster id suggest nihil spellbomb . or of course a few torpor orbs.. the spellskite you could get rid of with ancient grudge... if hes putting out more than 1 quickly.. into the core would be a good choice as well..
It's like a 2cc, instant Overrun with a 1 sided fog in here, IMO. And it helps with one of the biggest problems the deck has and to me that's actually getting your wolves to flip. Most decks I play almost never go a turn without playing something unless their control (which would totally destroy wolves anyway).
Anywho, here's my goofball version of Werewolves.
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Birds Of Paradise
4 Mayor Of Avabruack
4 Daybreak Ranger
4 Kruin Outlaw
4 Instigator Gang
4 Moonmist
4 Full Moon's Rise
4 Brimstone Volley
Lands: 24
7 Forest
6 Mountain
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Rootbound Crag
3 Kessig Wolf-Run
I'm trying to run it a bit more straight-forward aggro. Just hope to draw that moonmist and start swinging in.
i think 4 llanowar & 4 BoP its to much, this its no the old yavimaya fires deck, -4 elves +4 Waif (the 1 turn waif help a lot vs control match)