Might as well post this here. This is what I've been using as my go to Werewolf deck recently instead of the G/R mid-range and R/G aggro version. I, really like it and have had a good amount of success. You simply force an attrition war and grind it out until he can't stop your Werewolves from flipping. A common scenario is me having a flipped Werewolf on the board and him top decking, which is exactly what I want.
Vs Delver: All of my matches vs delver have been skewed in their favor. Seriously, wtf do you do against 3-4 vapor snags and 3-4 snapcaster mages every game? The few games that didn't involve that kind of stupid involved me destroying my opponent with intimidate.
Vs MBC. Full moon's Rise wins here. It's a lord they cant kill. Intimdate kills. Granted the decks I play against are the bad ones running nighthawk and wurmcoil so I do tend to lose game 1 if I don't get my burn. Game 2 is in my favor with beasts, naturalize, and witchbane orb.
Vs R/G ramp: Killing them before they get their "big red" online is usually what happens.
R/G aggro is if I get my huntmaster to flip before theirs and full moon's tend to allow nice big swings.
Vs Zombies: Uh, I'm the only surviving zombie player. Have had no testing there.
Vs Elf Ramp: Blowing out their ramp with incinerate and bonfire does it.
VS RDW: Run them out of steam and you win.
VS Superfriends: #### Gideon. Really. I cant wait for that card to rotate.
You're playing an aggro deck with some burn and beasts for game 2. Beat down their walkers when you get the chance. This one of the few matches I wish I had magmaquake in my SB.
I wish I could find room for the silverheart but I have no idea what to take out. The nice thing is the deck doesn't lose much when Scars rotates out (1 set of duals, GSZ, and incinerate for searing spear). Def changing the cage for ground seal though when pod is gone.
I did get my bonfires for cheap (kinda sad when you think $12 a piece is cheap for a card) but before that I ran slagstorm with full moon's before that.
Some possible cheap replacements would be the Instigator gang instead of huntmaster. I've won with both. Slagstorm for bonfire but if you do have the bonfires, RUN THEM. Young Wolf over the captive? Most the rares in this deck are pretty cheap outside of bonfire, huntmaster, and cavern (just more lands).
I strongly advice upping the number of sb conscripts to 4. Werewolves' biggest weakness is large creatures and larger planeswalkers. Conscripts completely mess up their plans.
Beast within is too general an answer for a sideboard.
If you have problem with delver sideboarding 3 whipflares is a good solution.
I strongly advice upping the number of sb conscripts to 4. Werewolves' biggest weakness is large creatures and larger planeswalkers. Conscripts completely mess up their plans.
Beast within is too general an answer for a sideboard.
If you have problem with delver sideboarding 3 whipflares is a good solution.
What would you suggest I drop to up the conscripts? The most I would want to add 1.
After my own playtesting I found beast is better in the board. It doesn't do anything for me against zombies, delver, pod, and r/g aggro. In fact it usually helps them more.
My problem with delver is when they get 3-4 vapor snags and 3-4 snapcaster mages. Otherwise its actually a fair fight.
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"We cannot join. We cannot rest. Our lives, our souls, endure. We have been returned."
Standard RBUGrixis Tutelage BR Devoid Beatdown Modern RAffinity B 8 Rack Legacy 0 Dredge EDH RBBladewing's Zombie Dragons BUGRW Sliver Legion's Overrun
What would you suggest I drop to up the conscripts? The most I would want to add 1.
After my own playtesting I found beast is better in the board. It doesn't do anything for me against zombies, delver, pod, and r/g aggro. In fact it usually helps them more.
My problem with delver is when they get 3-4 vapor snags and 3-4 snapcaster mages. Otherwise its actually a fair fight.
I would take out the beasts. Why remove something that's giving you problems, when you can make it a problem for them? I still think 4 is the right number. You really need to draw more than one conscript against our worst matchup which is ramp and decks that go big. Werewolves are already very strong against decks that rely on small threats so our sb focus should be on dealing with big threats.
But you're running 22 lands, which can be a problem with conscripts. Ever considered going 23-24 land? I'm quite sure you will run into land problems if you play in a tournament. Or you can -3 beasts, +2 conscripts +1 land in your sideboard.
I would take out the beasts. Why remove something that's giving you problems, when you can make it a problem for them? I still think 4 is the right number. You really need to draw more than one conscript against our worst matchup which is ramp and decks that go big.
You cant steal craterhoof behemoth, inkmoth nexus, akroma's vengence, staff of nin (bad target to steal) and gideon and expect to stop your death. Beast within allows you to skip your turn, flip your wolves, and deal with their threats and answers. I'll try 1 beast for a conscripts though.
I'm not trying to deny your suggestions Sasky, I've just loved having beast within every time I've had it and conscripts not quite so much (well, there was one time I was looking at a thragtusk w/rancor. Beast sucked there).
Vs. Delver, try Mental Missteps. Hell, in the current meta, there are a ton of great targets for Misstep.
Mental misstep wouldn't stop the terrible luck I have against delver. I do good against them when they don't get the ridiculous draw I described. Bonfire does wonders against this match-up.
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"We cannot join. We cannot rest. Our lives, our souls, endure. We have been returned."
Standard RBUGrixis Tutelage BR Devoid Beatdown Modern RAffinity B 8 Rack Legacy 0 Dredge EDH RBBladewing's Zombie Dragons BUGRW Sliver Legion's Overrun
1.) Big creatures, I can't overpower them or kill them especially Wurmcoil Engine.
2.) Control decks. I can flip my turn 1 wolves easily enough, if I go first, but I can't kill them quick enough to finish them off before they stabilize.
3.) I have to play stuff to win but in order to win I have to not play stuff and hope my opponent stalls out. Kind of a weird problem.
4.) Vapor Snag just wrecks this deck as well as any sort of removal like Go for the Throat , Doom Blade, and etc.
I've tried adding burn to finish my opponents off but that just doesn't work at all. Basically what would it take to make these guys an aggro deck that can win??
Thinking of trying Werewolves again, but rolling R/G with a splash of black for Duress, Tragic Slip, and maybe Smallpox. Basically adding a few more control elements to the deck to (hopefully) stand a better chance against more aggressive decks. Also since I don't have as much money to throw at this as I used to.
Initial thoughts?
(deck list inbound either tonight or tomorrow)
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Brian Tinsman, Set Designer :?mana::snow::snow:
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block. "Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
1.) Big creatures, I can't overpower them or kill them especially Wurmcoil Engine.
2.) Control decks. I can flip my turn 1 wolves easily enough, if I go first, but I can't kill them quick enough to finish them off before they stabilize.
3.) I have to play stuff to win but in order to win I have to not play stuff and hope my opponent stalls out. Kind of a weird problem.
4.) Vapor Snag just wrecks this deck as well as any sort of removal like Go for the Throat , Doom Blade, and etc.
I've tried adding burn to finish my opponents off but that just doesn't work at all. Basically what would it take to make these guys an aggro deck that can win??
My list has overcame all those problems.
1. Zealous Conscripts x4 are a must for this deck. Big creatures are our bane.
2. Really depends on your list. My list has done well against control decks.
3. Moonmist is so important for this deck. Attack with your guys, they block, you moonmist. You kill a bunch of stuff and you flip.
4. Haven't faced that problem when stuff like huntmaster and mayor are churning out a bunch of tokens.
Not to brag but to be helpful, I've been playing my list in local tournaments and has done well against all sorts of tier one decks. Really recommend eveyone interested in werewolves competitively to use it as a starting point.
It's been a while since I've whipped up a deck, but here's my budget T2 Werewolf deck thus far.
Kind of went for a control vibe of sorts to keep help keep the pressure on as I work to force a flip. I fully admit that this deck is a little all over the place in its current state and any and all suggestions for improvement (while keeping in mind that this is a budget deck) are greatly appreciated.
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer :?mana::snow::snow:
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block. "Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
So I don't wanna pay for huntsmasters. What if I swapped out Zealous Conscripts for them? Also, are there any other optimal cards for the 4 slot?
Should save conscripts for the sideboard. Instigator Gang will work in place of huntmasters.
@Sasky: How do you cast anything with 4 caverns and such a diverse creature base?
Ground seal doesn't stop pod, I don't see how pod doesn't wreck you.
I was almost dissapointed that you didn't run full moon's rise then I saw that you only have 11 werewolves.
Why the crushing vines instead of Naturalize and/or Ancient Grudge?
I'll proxy it up and see how it fares but I can't see the interaction too well pre-board.
A sleeper card that I haven't seen alot of talk lately is Witchbane Orb. It kills opposing bonfires, curse of death's Hold (probably the worst card to see our opponent play against WW) and most planeswalkers like gideon, liliana, karns +ability, and jace.
@snow: My suggestions are:
Grim backwoods is horrible.
Monodren shaman falls flat, your better off with 2 more gangs (or 1 gang and 1 silverheart).
As much as I want it to work, kruin outlaw rarely does. Gatstaf Shepherd works better (flipped a 3/3 with intimidate along with a immerwolf is BEAST).
Drop the black cards. They add nothing. Go with 4 pillar of flame over duress, 1 more incinerate, and 2 slagstorms if you can.
Sidenote: Made top 4 with my B/R zombies tonight, last week I won with my WW
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Should save conscripts for the sideboard. Instigator Gang will work in place of huntmasters.
@Sasky: How do you cast anything with 4 caverns and such a diverse creature base?
Ground seal doesn't stop pod, I don't see how pod doesn't wreck you.
I was almost dissapointed that you didn't run full moon's rise then I saw that you only have 11 werewolves.
Why the crushing vines instead of Naturalize and/or Ancient Grudge?
I'll proxy it up and see how it fares but I can't see the interaction too well pre-board.
I didn't know wolves and humans make for a "diverse" creature base.. Naya runs like 4 creature types yet runs 4 caverns. Birds is a moot point since you will almost never need to t1 birds off a cavern.
Why would pod wreck us? Moonmist and bonfires wreck them. Our superior creatures wreck them. Pod has always been one of the better matchups. Elesh norn is a major headache, but that's what the conscripts are for. Ground seals are in for reanimator, sun titans, and snapcasters.
No offense meant, but I think you might be a little outdated on the meta if you prefer naturalize and grudge to vines. Vines deal with birthing pod, golem tokens and restoration angel for naya, and delver/angel and sword/pike for delver. It's a very common sb card now
FMR is useless in a relatively werewolf-light deck like mine. I would always rather draw a bonfire.
@snow: My suggestions are:
Grim backwoods is horrible.
Monodren shaman falls flat, your better off with 2 more gangs (or 1 gang and 1 silverheart).
As much as I want it to work, kruin outlaw rarely does. Gatstaf Shepherd works better (flipped a 3/3 with intimidate along with a immerwolf is BEAST).
Drop the black cards. They add nothing. Go with 4 pillar of flame over duress, 1 more incinerate, and 2 slagstorms if you can.
Thanks for the tips and congratulations!
Shame about the Mondronen Shaman, she seemed like she might have been fun to use in a more 'control-y' deck, but at 4 mana, there are just better and more aggressive choices the deck needs and I was always kind of iffy on her usefulness anyway. This said, I almost want to just redo the whole damn thing and pop in Reckless Waif's and Wolfbitten Captive's, but I've rarely seen aggressive Werewolf decks like that work that well. Also thought about adding in Gitaxian Probe's, but then I'd have to take more important elements out for basic card draw.
Too many damn choices and too many things I want to do... This is my eternal struggle whenever I come back to Werewolves.
Part of me just wants to go casual with it, but then why would I be playing R/G Werewolves when R/G just has a ton of other, better stuff I could be using?
Anyway, here's an updated list for my budget T2 Werewolf deck:
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer :?mana::snow::snow:
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block. "Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
After a lot of games with random piles of cards, it has become apparent how awesome Hellion Crucible is. Mana dump man land haster guy is amazing. It's a land, so you don't actually cast it, not counting towards flips. It beats face, dodging sorcery speed removal, and is usually chiiling as a land, so not exactly vulnerable. The mana dump feature is nice. Waif, Mayor, crucible is a play I've made a few times that just decimates.
Rancor is a little hard to get the hang of, but always worth it.
I've dropped caverns completely. With only twenty creatures it got a little hard to use effectively.
Have also dropped all sorcery speed removal. Removal needs to be cast on my opponents turn to prevent my dudes from flipping in the wrong direction. Pillar is really nice, but uncastable.
After playing with all the werewolves in several different fashions of decks ad formats, I can definitely say which werewolves are the best.
These five are the best of the tribe in order. If Huntmaster isn't budget friendly, I would reccomend replacing him with Kruin Outlaw as opposed toInstigator Gang. I feel she has a more useful ability for the deck. More power is nice, but by the time they flip, not getting blocked is better.
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Lycanthropy Awareness Day.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
I agree that sorcery speed doesn't work on Wolves lists, but I'm curious about your set of removals for your list @ThisIsNotMyName ..
One thing that I note in my tests is that protection for our precious Lords and token makers is necessary. We have Moonmist, but it's too situational - only works as a battle trick most of time. Full Moon's Rise helps a bit more, but once again it's situational - and has sorcery speed, which we prefer usually to spend on creature spell am I right ?
What I'm talking about is Ranger's Guile and maybe Sheltering Word. They are spot protection in comparison with Moonmist and FMR, however they work against many things that the other two options don't: Bounce, exile, -1/-1 and 'can't be regenerated' effects. Sheltering Word may slow down our game too much, maybe Apostle's Blessing is more appropriate while we still can use it.
Autumn's Vail for SB is great too, since we nearly stop UB/Esper controls and even Delver from use their bounce and removal at us and most of time resulting on flipping our guys.
I keep guile in the board. Helps against a number of decks.
I run four incinerate always. My other four to six are always in flux. I've been trying one harvest pyre recently and kinda like it. More like doom blade than incinerate, it does it's job well. Killing big things.
Right now I am running four incinerate, one harvest pyre, and three brimstone volley, but will probably switch brimstone out now that I am running hellion crucible, which serves a similar function, but does it better.
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Lycanthropy Awareness Day.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Hmm, I was think about Gut Shot/Incinerate besides Beast Within for mid/late. I'm really concerned about the hexproof staff and free spell works better to have some mana up to protect ourselves.
The land (Hellion Crucible) is just amazing in RG Wolves list, really liked it. Running only 2 cause don't know how to find more space for it.
Been seriously contemplating putting together a Werewolf deck in hopes to do well competitivly well still having a lot of fun, but everyone I tell this to at FNM laughs and simply say "it wont work, I have tried and it's just bad". Now is this true? because I would play something like this...
Well, I like the idea of dorks and turn 2 Daybreaker/Immerwolf .. but don't know if it can replace Wolfbitten swinging 3 on turn 2 and flipping.
Hmm I guess I am just not a big fan of wolfbitten I havent given it that much testing but in my experiance ramping would be more effective to get our big threats out earlier. Now I was going to run Young Wolf at the 1cmc slot but was told balls to the wall aggro werewolves was not the best werewolves.
4x Wolfbitten Captive
4x Mayor of Avabruck
2x Daybreak Ranger
2x Phyrexian Metamorph
2x Huntmaster of the Fells
Planeswalker = 4
2x Liliana of the Veil
2x Garruk Relentless
4x Gitaxian Probe
2x Gut Shot
4x Duress
2x Tragic Slip
4x Go for the Throat
2x Distress
2x Bonfire of the Damned
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
4x Woodland Cemetery
2x Cavern of Souls
8x Swamp
4x Forest
Might as well post this here. This is what I've been using as my go to Werewolf deck recently instead of the G/R mid-range and R/G aggro version. I, really like it and have had a good amount of success. You simply force an attrition war and grind it out until he can't stop your Werewolves from flipping. A common scenario is me having a flipped Werewolf on the board and him top decking, which is exactly what I want.
22 Lands:
4 Mountain
6 Forest
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Rootbound Crag
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Kessig Wolf Run
24 Creatures:
3 Immerwolf
4 Wolfbitten Captive
4 Huntmaster of the Fells
3 Gatstaf Shepherd
2 Daybreak Ranger
4 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Reckless Waif
3 Full Moon's Rise
2 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Incinerate
4 Moonmist
2 Naturalize
3 Grafdiggers cage
3 Beast Within
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Zealous Conscripts
2 Witchbane Orb
Vs Delver: All of my matches vs delver have been skewed in their favor. Seriously, wtf do you do against 3-4 vapor snags and 3-4 snapcaster mages every game? The few games that didn't involve that kind of stupid involved me destroying my opponent with intimidate.
Vs MBC. Full moon's Rise wins here. It's a lord they cant kill. Intimdate kills. Granted the decks I play against are the bad ones running nighthawk and wurmcoil so I do tend to lose game 1 if I don't get my burn. Game 2 is in my favor with beasts, naturalize, and witchbane orb.
Vs R/G ramp: Killing them before they get their "big red" online is usually what happens.
R/G aggro is if I get my huntmaster to flip before theirs and full moon's tend to allow nice big swings.
Vs Zombies: Uh, I'm the only surviving zombie player. Have had no testing there.
Vs Elf Ramp: Blowing out their ramp with incinerate and bonfire does it.
VS RDW: Run them out of steam and you win.
VS Superfriends: #### Gideon. Really. I cant wait for that card to rotate.
You're playing an aggro deck with some burn and beasts for game 2. Beat down their walkers when you get the chance. This one of the few matches I wish I had magmaquake in my SB.
I wish I could find room for the silverheart but I have no idea what to take out. The nice thing is the deck doesn't lose much when Scars rotates out (1 set of duals, GSZ, and incinerate for searing spear). Def changing the cage for ground seal though when pod is gone.
I did get my bonfires for cheap (kinda sad when you think $12 a piece is cheap for a card) but before that I ran slagstorm with full moon's before that.
Some possible cheap replacements would be the Instigator gang instead of huntmaster. I've won with both. Slagstorm for bonfire but if you do have the bonfires, RUN THEM. Young Wolf over the captive? Most the rares in this deck are pretty cheap outside of bonfire, huntmaster, and cavern (just more lands).
Standard
RBUGrixis Tutelage
BR Devoid Beatdown
Modern
RAffinity
B 8 Rack
Legacy
0 Dredge
EDH
RBBladewing's Zombie Dragons
BUGRW Sliver Legion's Overrun
Beast within is too general an answer for a sideboard.
If you have problem with delver sideboarding 3 whipflares is a good solution.
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
What would you suggest I drop to up the conscripts? The most I would want to add 1.
After my own playtesting I found beast is better in the board. It doesn't do anything for me against zombies, delver, pod, and r/g aggro. In fact it usually helps them more.
My problem with delver is when they get 3-4 vapor snags and 3-4 snapcaster mages. Otherwise its actually a fair fight.
Standard
RBUGrixis Tutelage
BR Devoid Beatdown
Modern
RAffinity
B 8 Rack
Legacy
0 Dredge
EDH
RBBladewing's Zombie Dragons
BUGRW Sliver Legion's Overrun
I would take out the beasts. Why remove something that's giving you problems, when you can make it a problem for them? I still think 4 is the right number. You really need to draw more than one conscript against our worst matchup which is ramp and decks that go big. Werewolves are already very strong against decks that rely on small threats so our sb focus should be on dealing with big threats.
But you're running 22 lands, which can be a problem with conscripts. Ever considered going 23-24 land? I'm quite sure you will run into land problems if you play in a tournament. Or you can -3 beasts, +2 conscripts +1 land in your sideboard.
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
You cant steal craterhoof behemoth, inkmoth nexus, akroma's vengence, staff of nin (bad target to steal) and gideon and expect to stop your death. Beast within allows you to skip your turn, flip your wolves, and deal with their threats and answers. I'll try 1 beast for a conscripts though.
I'm not trying to deny your suggestions Sasky, I've just loved having beast within every time I've had it and conscripts not quite so much (well, there was one time I was looking at a thragtusk w/rancor. Beast sucked there).
Mental misstep wouldn't stop the terrible luck I have against delver. I do good against them when they don't get the ridiculous draw I described. Bonfire does wonders against this match-up.
Standard
RBUGrixis Tutelage
BR Devoid Beatdown
Modern
RAffinity
B 8 Rack
Legacy
0 Dredge
EDH
RBBladewing's Zombie Dragons
BUGRW Sliver Legion's Overrun
Standard
RBUGrixis Tutelage
BR Devoid Beatdown
Modern
RAffinity
B 8 Rack
Legacy
0 Dredge
EDH
RBBladewing's Zombie Dragons
BUGRW Sliver Legion's Overrun
1.) Big creatures, I can't overpower them or kill them especially Wurmcoil Engine.
2.) Control decks. I can flip my turn 1 wolves easily enough, if I go first, but I can't kill them quick enough to finish them off before they stabilize.
3.) I have to play stuff to win but in order to win I have to not play stuff and hope my opponent stalls out. Kind of a weird problem.
4.) Vapor Snag just wrecks this deck as well as any sort of removal like Go for the Throat , Doom Blade, and etc.
I've tried adding burn to finish my opponents off but that just doesn't work at all. Basically what would it take to make these guys an aggro deck that can win??
Initial thoughts?
(deck list inbound either tonight or tomorrow)
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block.
"Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
My list has overcame all those problems.
1. Zealous Conscripts x4 are a must for this deck. Big creatures are our bane.
2. Really depends on your list. My list has done well against control decks.
3. Moonmist is so important for this deck. Attack with your guys, they block, you moonmist. You kill a bunch of stuff and you flip.
4. Haven't faced that problem when stuff like huntmaster and mayor are churning out a bunch of tokens.
Not to brag but to be helpful, I've been playing my list in local tournaments and has done well against all sorts of tier one decks. Really recommend eveyone interested in werewolves competitively to use it as a starting point.
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
Kind of went for a control vibe of sorts to keep help keep the pressure on as I work to force a flip. I fully admit that this deck is a little all over the place in its current state and any and all suggestions for improvement (while keeping in mind that this is a budget deck) are greatly appreciated.
4 Mountain
6 Forest
2 Swamp
3 Dragonskull Summit
4 Rootbound Crag
1 Grim Backwoods
3 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Mayor of Avabruck
3 Daybreak Ranger
3 Kruin Outlaw
3 Immerwolf
2 Mondronen Shaman
2 Instigator Gang
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Wolfir Silverheart
3 Full Moon's Rise
3 Incinerate
4 Duress
3 Smallpox
4 Moonmist
EDIT: Now irrelevant. Look at this if you want to see how NOT to build a Werewolf deck.
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block.
"Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
Should save conscripts for the sideboard. Instigator Gang will work in place of huntmasters.
@Sasky: How do you cast anything with 4 caverns and such a diverse creature base?
Ground seal doesn't stop pod, I don't see how pod doesn't wreck you.
I was almost dissapointed that you didn't run full moon's rise then I saw that you only have 11 werewolves.
Why the crushing vines instead of Naturalize and/or Ancient Grudge?
I'll proxy it up and see how it fares but I can't see the interaction too well pre-board.
A sleeper card that I haven't seen alot of talk lately is Witchbane Orb. It kills opposing bonfires, curse of death's Hold (probably the worst card to see our opponent play against WW) and most planeswalkers like gideon, liliana, karns +ability, and jace.
@snow: My suggestions are:
Grim backwoods is horrible.
Monodren shaman falls flat, your better off with 2 more gangs (or 1 gang and 1 silverheart).
As much as I want it to work, kruin outlaw rarely does. Gatstaf Shepherd works better (flipped a 3/3 with intimidate along with a immerwolf is BEAST).
Drop the black cards. They add nothing. Go with 4 pillar of flame over duress, 1 more incinerate, and 2 slagstorms if you can.
Sidenote: Made top 4 with my B/R zombies tonight, last week I won with my WW
Standard
RBUGrixis Tutelage
BR Devoid Beatdown
Modern
RAffinity
B 8 Rack
Legacy
0 Dredge
EDH
RBBladewing's Zombie Dragons
BUGRW Sliver Legion's Overrun
I didn't know wolves and humans make for a "diverse" creature base.. Naya runs like 4 creature types yet runs 4 caverns. Birds is a moot point since you will almost never need to t1 birds off a cavern.
Why would pod wreck us? Moonmist and bonfires wreck them. Our superior creatures wreck them. Pod has always been one of the better matchups. Elesh norn is a major headache, but that's what the conscripts are for. Ground seals are in for reanimator, sun titans, and snapcasters.
No offense meant, but I think you might be a little outdated on the meta if you prefer naturalize and grudge to vines. Vines deal with birthing pod, golem tokens and restoration angel for naya, and delver/angel and sword/pike for delver. It's a very common sb card now
FMR is useless in a relatively werewolf-light deck like mine. I would always rather draw a bonfire.
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
Thanks for the tips and congratulations!
Shame about the Mondronen Shaman, she seemed like she might have been fun to use in a more 'control-y' deck, but at 4 mana, there are just better and more aggressive choices the deck needs and I was always kind of iffy on her usefulness anyway. This said, I almost want to just redo the whole damn thing and pop in Reckless Waif's and Wolfbitten Captive's, but I've rarely seen aggressive Werewolf decks like that work that well. Also thought about adding in Gitaxian Probe's, but then I'd have to take more important elements out for basic card draw.
Too many damn choices and too many things I want to do... This is my eternal struggle whenever I come back to Werewolves.
Part of me just wants to go casual with it, but then why would I be playing R/G Werewolves when R/G just has a ton of other, better stuff I could be using?
Anyway, here's an updated list for my budget T2 Werewolf deck:
8 Mountain
8 Forest
4 Rootbound Crag
3 Kessig Wolf Run
20 Creatures:
4 Mayor of Avabruck
2 Gatstaf Shepherd
3 Daybreak Ranger
1 Kruin Outlaw
3 Immerwolf
3 Instigator Gang
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
3 Wolfir Silverheart
3 Full Moon's Rise
4 Incinerate
4 pillar of flame
2 Slagstorm
4 Moonmist
Any additional comments, suggestions, or commentary is of course welcome.
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block.
"Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
I run both.
After a lot of games with random piles of cards, it has become apparent how awesome Hellion Crucible is. Mana dump man land haster guy is amazing. It's a land, so you don't actually cast it, not counting towards flips. It beats face, dodging sorcery speed removal, and is usually chiiling as a land, so not exactly vulnerable. The mana dump feature is nice. Waif, Mayor, crucible is a play I've made a few times that just decimates.
Rancor is a little hard to get the hang of, but always worth it.
I've dropped caverns completely. With only twenty creatures it got a little hard to use effectively.
Have also dropped all sorcery speed removal. Removal needs to be cast on my opponents turn to prevent my dudes from flipping in the wrong direction. Pillar is really nice, but uncastable.
After playing with all the werewolves in several different fashions of decks ad formats, I can definitely say which werewolves are the best.
2 Mayor of Avabruck
3 Wolfbitten Captive
4 Daybreak Ranger
5 Reckless Waif
These five are the best of the tribe in order. If Huntmaster isn't budget friendly, I would reccomend replacing him with Kruin Outlaw as opposed toInstigator Gang. I feel she has a more useful ability for the deck. More power is nice, but by the time they flip, not getting blocked is better.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
One thing that I note in my tests is that protection for our precious Lords and token makers is necessary. We have Moonmist, but it's too situational - only works as a battle trick most of time. Full Moon's Rise helps a bit more, but once again it's situational - and has sorcery speed, which we prefer usually to spend on creature spell am I right ?
What I'm talking about is Ranger's Guile and maybe Sheltering Word. They are spot protection in comparison with Moonmist and FMR, however they work against many things that the other two options don't: Bounce, exile, -1/-1 and 'can't be regenerated' effects. Sheltering Word may slow down our game too much, maybe Apostle's Blessing is more appropriate while we still can use it.
Autumn's Vail for SB is great too, since we nearly stop UB/Esper controls and even Delver from use their bounce and removal at us and most of time resulting on flipping our guys.
What do you think people ?
I run four incinerate always. My other four to six are always in flux. I've been trying one harvest pyre recently and kinda like it. More like doom blade than incinerate, it does it's job well. Killing big things.
Right now I am running four incinerate, one harvest pyre, and three brimstone volley, but will probably switch brimstone out now that I am running hellion crucible, which serves a similar function, but does it better.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
The land (Hellion Crucible) is just amazing in RG Wolves list, really liked it. Running only 2 cause don't know how to find more space for it.
4 Wolfbitten Captive
4 Mayor of Avabruck
3 Immerwolf
3 Reckless Waif
2 Daybreak Ranger
2 Wolfir Avenger
2 Wolfir Silverheart
4 Incinerate
3 Ranger's Guile
2 Beast Within
2 Gut Shot
2 Moonmist
3 Rootbound Crag
2 Hellion Crucible
6 Mountain
8 Forest
3 Full Moon's Rise
3 Ancient Grudge
3 Autumn's Veil
1 Beast Within
2 Slagstorm
2 Daybreak Ranger
4 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Immerwolf
2 Kruin Outlaw
4 Mayor of Avabruck
3 Wolfir Avenger
2 Wolfir Silverheart
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Full Moon's Rise
4 Incinerate
4 Moonmist
Land (22)
4 Cavern of Souls
2 Copperline Gorge
8 Forest
2 Kessig Wolf Run
2 Mountain
4 Rootbound Crag
2 Garruk Relentless
What's your opinion on the chances of werewolves becoming competitive?
Well, I like the idea of dorks and turn 2 Daybreaker/Immerwolf .. but don't know if it can replace Wolfbitten swinging 3 on turn 2 and flipping.
Hmm I guess I am just not a big fan of wolfbitten I havent given it that much testing but in my experiance ramping would be more effective to get our big threats out earlier. Now I was going to run Young Wolf at the 1cmc slot but was told balls to the wall aggro werewolves was not the best werewolves.