This deck can kill very quickly with it's mass number of one drops (as usual) and 6 creatures that deal damage upon entering. The beauty though, is Bump in the Night. Yes this card IS worth splashing red for. It's INCREDIBLY powerful. It makes your lands not bad topdecks. I find Pierce Strider to be more useful game 1 versus many decks. Especially on the play. This is why I keep Obliterator in the side. I want to scout to see if the opponent is playing a deck that has answers to him; if they do, I just keep him sided out, if they don't I bring him in.
Here are my questions though...
Lashwrithe. I said red is worth splashing for because Lashwrithe costs FOUR and may not immediately win you the game as it does in a poison deck. How has Lashwrithe been performing?
Cemetary Reaper. Ok, I don't LOVE him, but he does make Highborn Ghoul a 3/2 and that is serious business. I was thinking of using Liliana in his place?
As for the sideboard,
Act of Aggression makes sure Titans don't come in and end the fun. Take away a blocker and kill them. Quite fun.
This deck can kill very quickly with it's mass number of one drops (as usual) and 6 creatures that deal damage upon entering. The beauty though, is Bump in the Night. Yes this card IS worth splashing red for. It's INCREDIBLY powerful. It makes your lands not bad topdecks. I find Pierce Strider to be more useful game 1 versus many decks. Especially on the play. This is why I keep Obliterator in the side. I want to scout to see if the opponent is playing a deck that has answers to him; if they do, I just keep him sided out, if they don't I bring him in.
Here are my questions though...
Lashwrithe. I said red is worth splashing for because Lashwrithe costs FOUR and may not immediately win you the game as it does in a poison deck. How has Lashwrithe been performing?
Cemetary Reaper. Ok, I don't LOVE him, but he does make Highborn Ghoul a 3/2 and that is serious business. I was thinking of using Liliana in his place?
As for the sideboard,
Act of Aggression makes sure Titans don't come in and end the fun. Take away a blocker and kill them. Quite fun.
Surgical Extraction Gets rid of opposing Gravecrawlers and Burning Vengeance doesn't like it
I've just went 17-4 with my list....I tried Black Red Zombies for a bit and just seemed trashy in comparison so I really just feel like saying try my list and see how it feels.
You really aren't running anything that presses you to Run Red either. I'm not so sure it should be in there the way you have the deck built. I keep thinking this deck would like Lashout haha. I'd say try Brimstone Volleys and Incinerates in the maindeck, the point of red is to not have to worry about Mirran Crusader in this deck I'd think. I don't like Bump In the Night it's more of all in card, that a supporting card for a beatdown deck it just seems "cheap". If you are deadset on Black Red rather than Blue Black I think a nice list would be ( after a lot of feel for zombies )
I'd probably add a second Mortapod, the deck is crying for a consistent 2drop slot and that card works VERY well with the Morbid Synergy this list has. The deck curves out at 3 before anyone says it 22 IS ENOUGH! I'd say try this list opposed to your list and see how it works. Obvious changes can be made like Incinerate could certainly turn into Arc Trail, or a mixture of Arc Trail/Galvanic Blast. The sieboard is pretty fantastic and tight. Don't know what you'd cut to fit in Arc Trail so I simply left it out.
To your questions.
Lashwrithe has been horrible for me, it's 4 Mana and high for the curve and with little no evasion and half the format being powerhouse Token decks I don't think Lashwrithe has a place unless you're infect.
Cemetery Reaper has surprisingly good in my UB List I;ve had amazing success with, I only run 2 but eachtime he's a must kill, pumps your guys and does a lot when you need to break a standstill he's really underrated very solid.
Act Of Aggression is simply a fantastic sideboard card, no doubt about it. With the burn version of this deck it's a work of art to be able to get out those extra points of damage to seal the deal.
Not a fan of Veil, it dies too easily and you never want to be on the defensive ( obviously half the deck either can't block or comes into play tapped ) you won't get much worth out of it. The best card against control for me has been Mimic Vat, I'd suggest you try it awesome card right there if they don't have Oblivion RIng they simply lose, just time the play well and it should land control isn't counter heavy anymore.
Crush is ehh, I'd rather run Manic Vandal he kills an artifact and helps with the pressure as he is a 2/2 body to add to the legion of Zombies. Phyrexian Revoker isn't horrible but he's not exactly a great answer as he dies easily and you usually don't want to play him early.
Wurmcoil doesn't get much play, but yeah Sever the Bloodline does get rid of that guy. What Sever the Bloodline is so good for is sweeping away tons of tokens and then flashing it back and doing it again. It's a very powerful card, a little expensive but I wouldn't take it out as a 2 of sideboard.
I don't think Zombies will be that prevalent and typically the better player wins the mirror match I don't think Surgical Extraction is that strong personally I'd not have it in the deck anywhere. Nothing will be like Extirpate no matter how bad you wish it to be. That card could for 1 black always completely wreck some of the strongest cards in the format when it was in standard like Teachings, Momentary Blink, Dredge, and quite a bit more still...Surgical Extraction isn't 1/10th of the card Extirpate was.
Work well, have good holders in crawlers and messengers.. When you draw them they're mostly there to provide evasion vs tokens etc. But they can gain you the life required to win, or deal the lethal points. They're awesome, I just recently trimmed to 2 because I saw 2 of them almost every game I played when having 3.
Smallpox is just not good in a meta full of tokens and stuff like that, Its not that its bad, its really good.. just we don't have the cards to support it.
This list is very consistent. I've gone ahead and made a few changes to really end the game quickly. This is my list. I gotta say I do miss Altar's Reaping my own Messenger for 2 life and 2 cards, but hey, you can't win em all.
This list is very consistent. I've gone ahead and made a few changes to really end the game quickly. This is my list. I gotta say I do miss Altar's Reaping my own Messenger for 2 life and 2 cards, but hey, you can't win em all.
After testing I suggest a few things. Against Mono Red especially the lists that run Planeswalkers and abuse sweepers it's a very close matchup and really dependent on drawing Geralf's Messenger even against Red Deck wins. Sideboarding in 3-4 Phyrexian Crusader can make the difference and sway it into your favor. It's a better sideboard can than you'd think.
Alright after quite a bit of testing here's my consensus on Black Blue Zombies and Black Red Zombies.
Black Red- With Zombies burn is something you really need, no matter what you want to do with the deck it should always curve out on 3, some of the best 1drops and 3drops in the entire format that are meant to attack. Brimstone Volleys are very consistent in this deck and when that's so it's an incredible card. Incinerate is incinerate if you are Red it's never less than solid. The access to cards like Arc Trail, Manic Vandal and Act of aggression are really solid.
The problem with Black Red Zombies is how great Diregraf Captain simply is and the ability to have access to 8 lords instead of 4 can really make your deck consistently powerful, where you don't need to rely on burn, the Black Red list just seems to come up short and not consistently pressure the way Blue Black does.
Blue Black- It's a little more consistent and explosive, it's creature heavy because it's truly played as a Zombie Tribe deck. But the thing is, the way I made the list with 4 Geralf's Messenger 4 Diregraf Captain 4 Vapor Snag and 4 Geth's Verdict it does have ways to squeeze out those extra points of damage just like red, it curves better and attacks harder. I must say I prefer this list. The access to Mana Leaks in the sideboard is very strong and Vapor Snags are so much better than you'd ever expect, certainly better than tragic slip.
Here's both of my lists.
Blue Black Zombies Record 22-5 ( Against only Competitive, high level decks)
Whenever I played Red Black Zombies I just sort of felt like I should play Mono Red instead honestly, it just lacked a little bit of the consistency Mono Red or Blue Black Zombies have and it doesn't have the reach of cards like Shrine and Chandra's Phoenix and it doesn't make it's creatures so threatening and problematic as Blue Black does.
Also in the blue black list, I'm testing no Mana Leaks sideboard, they will most likely comeback but I haven't been able to really use them so far so I'm going to see how they do without is all. It's a very comforting card to have in your board, I wouldn't suggest cutting it like I have at the moment.
Did any body see Gerry thompson's new article? it talks about BR zombies. Id love to see what deck he came up with our beloved tribe
No offensive but if you know Gerry Thompson like I do or most of the other Channel Fireball and SCGs pro writers....you'd know they aren't anything to be taken to heart the majority of the time. Especially on deck ideas.
It seems like most people have given up on Mono B? Too many holes? I've been testing with vault skirge, porcelain legionnaire, lashwrithe and obliterator as well as the usual 1-3 drop zombies. Nothing new, but obliterator or skirge plus lashwrithe just win games. Is it worth being mono? That's my main concern.
It seems like most people have given up on Mono B? Too many holes? I've been testing with vault skirge, porcelain legionnaire, lashwrithe and obliterator as well as the usual 1-3 drop zombies. Nothing new, but obliterator or skirge plus lashwrithe just win games. Is it worth being mono? That's my main concern.
I can picture getting my Lashwrithed Obliterator hit with Wrack with Madness. g2?
seriously though, mono-black is as it has been for the last couple of years. It's quite scary when it jumps out to a lead, but I don't think it's resilient enough. There is to much to be gained by splashing
Alright after quite a bit of testing here's my consensus on Black Blue Zombies and Black Red Zombies.
Black Red- With Zombies burn is something you really need, no matter what you want to do with the deck it should always curve out on 3, some of the best 1drops and 3drops in the entire format that are meant to attack. Brimstone Volleys are very consistent in this deck and when that's so it's an incredible card. Incinerate is incinerate if you are Red it's never less than solid. The access to cards like Arc Trail, Manic Vandal and Act of aggression are really solid.
The problem with Black Red Zombies is how great Diregraf Captain simply is and the ability to have access to 8 lords instead of 4 can really make your deck consistently powerful, where you don't need to rely on burn, the Black Red list just seems to come up short and not consistently pressure the way Blue Black does.
Blue Black- It's a little more consistent and explosive, it's creature heavy because it's truly played as a Zombie Tribe deck. But the thing is, the way I made the list with 4 Geralf's Messenger 4 Diregraf Captain 4 Vapor Snag and 4 Geth's Verdict it does have ways to squeeze out those extra points of damage just like red, it curves better and attacks harder. I must say I prefer this list. The access to Mana Leaks in the sideboard is very strong and Vapor Snags are so much better than you'd ever expect, certainly better than tragic slip.
Here's both of my lists.
Blue Black Zombies Record 22-5 ( Against only Competitive, high level decks)
Whenever I played Red Black Zombies I just sort of felt like I should play Mono Red instead honestly, it just lacked a little bit of the consistency Mono Red or Blue Black Zombies have and it doesn't have the reach of cards like Shrine and Chandra's Phoenix and it doesn't make it's creatures so threatening and problematic as Blue Black does.
Also in the blue black list, I'm testing no Mana Leaks sideboard, they will most likely comeback but I haven't been able to really use them so far so I'm going to see how they do without is all. It's a very comforting card to have in your board, I wouldn't suggest cutting it like I have at the moment.
Its a good write up, but I can definitely understand why your RB list wasn't performing as consistently as your UB list. Your UB list has been loved a bit more, and is simply more refined.
You say that the RB list feels like the reach is missing because of a lack of Shrine and Phoenix. Well, I actually run a pair of Shrines in my list. Wakerunners in your list should just be Stormblood Berserkers (or another 2 drop that I'll point out later on in the post). Sure they don't have that much synergy with the rest of the Zombies, but he's a very aggressive 2 drop. Also, your lack of Faithless Looting in the deck answers a lot of your consistency issues. Tragic Slip is unnecessary in the RB list, and some number of Arc Trails should be main. You're running a bit heavy on the Volleys, and while Mortarpod can be really good, it feels like there are other cards that should be in that 2 drop slot.
I do question the lack of Snapcaster Mage in your UB list though. Definitely not the full set, but 2 or 3 could definitely give you some extra options. I'd probably drop 1 Skinrender and 1 Highborn Ghoul.
This list makes me very excited to try out Torch Fiend in the mainboard as another 2 drop creature. Swapping out those 2 for a pair of Highborn Ghouls, and dropping 1 Aristocrat ends up looking like my exact creature suite. Faithless Looting shows up here too. It is really really good here, and you guys should listen to me about this card in the RB lists.
The swords are a good take, and should probably be tested. They give the deck a bit more power for the token strategies, and gives more resilience against Mono Red in game 1.
The sideboard seems only okay though. Act of Aggression is great, and so is Crusader. It is funny to see Blasphemous Act in here, as I was mentioning this to some of the guys last FNM as a sideboard card vs. token decks. They generally don't have less than 4 creatures on the board, and having just 2 creatures on my side makes this cost the same as Slagstorm without the second :symr:. Another Sword against the same token strategies and red decks, and with Distress for Control decks. Basically, Distress takes out 1 sweeper, a Gideon, or an Elesh Norn against anything White based. The board will definitely need some major tweaking, but the main looks pretty sweet.
This list looks like it is tuned a lot more to beat the broad metagame. The mainboard looks like nothing special until you see a full set of 4 Aristocrats. That's right, 4! I would never run 4 Evolving Wilds in this kind of deck, as you will open hands of 2 wilds, and multiple 1 drops, and feel like you shot yourself in the foot.
The sideboard looks a bit more tuned against the control decks. I really like running Mana Barbs, as it really is just an "I win" card against control or ramp. Ratchet Bombs, Arc Trails, and Distress look good. But 2 more Skinrenders and the Surgicals have me thinking those are just placeholders at the moment. He probably should be running some form of artifact hate there.
Its a good write up, but I can definitely understand why your RB list wasn't performing as consistently as your UB list. Your UB list has been loved a bit more, and is simply more refined.
You say that the RB list feels like the reach is missing because of a lack of Shrine and Phoenix. Well, I actually run a pair of Shrines in my list. Wakerunners in your list should just be Stormblood Berserkers (or another 2 drop that I'll point out later on in the post). Sure they don't have that much synergy with the rest of the Zombies, but he's a very aggressive 2 drop. Also, your lack of Faithless Looting in the deck answers a lot of your consistency issues. Tragic Slip is unnecessary in the RB list, and some number of Arc Trails should be main. You're running a bit heavy on the Volleys, and while Mortarpod can be really good, it feels like there are other cards that should be in that 2 drop slot.
I do question the lack of Snapcaster Mage in your UB list though. Definitely not the full set, but 2 or 3 could definitely give you some extra options. I'd probably drop 1 Skinrender and 1 Highborn Ghoul.
Its not his lists, but they look quite similar to what I was working on.
This list makes me very excited to try out Torch Fiend in the mainboard as another 2 drop creature. Swapping out those 2 for a pair of Highborn Ghouls, and dropping 1 Aristocrat ends up looking like my exact creature suite. Faithless Looting shows up here too. It is really really good here, and you guys should listen to me about this card in the RB lists.
The swords are a good take, and should probably be tested. They give the deck a bit more power for the token strategies, and gives more resilience against Mono Red in game 1.
The sideboard seems only okay though. Act of Aggression is great, and so is Crusader. It is funny to see Blasphemous Act in here, as I was mentioning this to some of the guys last FNM as a sideboard card vs. token decks. They generally don't have less than 4 creatures on the board, and having just 2 creatures on my side makes this cost the same as Slagstorm without the second :symr:. Another Sword against the same token strategies and red decks, and with Distress for Control decks. Basically, Distress takes out 1 sweeper, a Gideon, or an Elesh Norn against anything White based. The board will definitely need some major tweaking, but the main looks pretty sweet.
This list looks like it is tuned a lot more to beat the broad metagame. The mainboard looks like nothing special until you see a full set of 4 Aristocrats. That's right, 4! I would never run 4 Evolving Wilds in this kind of deck, as you will open hands of 2 wilds, and multiple 1 drops, and feel like you shot yourself in the foot.
The sideboard looks a bit more tuned against the control decks. I really like running Mana Barbs, as it really is just an "I win" card against control or ramp. Ratchet Bombs, Arc Trails, and Distress look good. But 2 more Skinrenders and the Surgicals have me thinking those are just placeholders at the moment. He probably should be running some form of artifact hate there.
This Black Red list is much more solid, though I did say previously that I didn't think it was a Zombie deck but a Black Red sligh deck that was most viable. I made lists that were guided towards the thread, but I guess it could be considered a Zombie deck, either way much better than the list I posted.
No offensive but if you know Gerry Thompson like I do or most of the other Channel Fireball and SCGs pro writers....you'd know they aren't anything to be taken to heart the majority of the time. Especially on deck ideas.
non taken. but what do you mean that they arent anything to be taken to heart especially on deck ideas? shouldn't we listen to them because they have alot of experience?
It seems like most people have given up on Mono B? Too many holes? I've been testing with vault skirge, porcelain legionnaire, lashwrithe and obliterator as well as the usual 1-3 drop zombies. Nothing new, but obliterator or skirge plus lashwrithe just win games. Is it worth being mono? That's my main concern.
im with you sir. i came to start dark ascension dreaming of mono black zombies. however its getting less and less support. I have no problem trying out both RB and Ub builds. Im not a very experienced player so i tend to listen to people that have more knowledge than me.
@archie
sir question... what makes falkenrath aristocrat good in this deck? like you said he should be sided out against BW toekns due to chump blockers. but what makes him good in general for this deck?
While its no Kalastria Highborn engine, I think we can't ignore diregraf captain's synergy with gravecrawler, the undying mechanic and a sac outlet. I can see this UB Zombies deck playing much like the RB vampire decks that were about speed and reach. The question is finding the appropriate sac outlet for the deck. Altar's Reap is a good choice, but not reliable enough. Disciple of Gristlebrand is also a card. Anyone know of others?
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4 Dragonksull Summit
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
16 Swamp
Creatures (23)
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Gravecrawler
4 Geralf's Messenger
4 Pierce Strider
4 Cemetery Reaper
3 Highborn Ghoul
4 Bump In The Night
2 Geth's Verdict
4 Tragic Slip
3 Altar's Reap
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Liliana Of The Veil
2 Phyrexian Obliterator
3 Act Of Aggression
2 Crush
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sever The Bloodline
This deck can kill very quickly with it's mass number of one drops (as usual) and 6 creatures that deal damage upon entering. The beauty though, is Bump in the Night. Yes this card IS worth splashing red for. It's INCREDIBLY powerful. It makes your lands not bad topdecks. I find Pierce Strider to be more useful game 1 versus many decks. Especially on the play. This is why I keep Obliterator in the side. I want to scout to see if the opponent is playing a deck that has answers to him; if they do, I just keep him sided out, if they don't I bring him in.
Here are my questions though...
Lashwrithe. I said red is worth splashing for because Lashwrithe costs FOUR and may not immediately win you the game as it does in a poison deck. How has Lashwrithe been performing?
Cemetary Reaper. Ok, I don't LOVE him, but he does make Highborn Ghoul a 3/2 and that is serious business. I was thinking of using Liliana in his place?
As for the sideboard,
Act of Aggression makes sure Titans don't come in and end the fun. Take away a blocker and kill them. Quite fun.
Liliana of the Veil Comes in against control and Hexproof jerks.
Crush Also may get rid of this, but it's our only answer to Batterskull and swords. I was thinking about Phyrexian Revokeras he is also a beater.
Phyrexian ObliteratorComes in against other aggro decks who pretty much scoop to him.
Sever the Bloodline High power removal for Wurmcoils.
Surgical Extraction Gets rid of opposing Gravecrawlers and Burning Vengeance doesn't like it
RADAMARO, FIRST TO DESIRER
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Lashwrithes and Phyrexian Obliterators. Not enough good cards to make the deck good if you keep it under 3
I've just went 17-4 with my list....I tried Black Red Zombies for a bit and just seemed trashy in comparison so I really just feel like saying try my list and see how it feels.
You really aren't running anything that presses you to Run Red either. I'm not so sure it should be in there the way you have the deck built. I keep thinking this deck would like Lashout haha. I'd say try Brimstone Volleys and Incinerates in the maindeck, the point of red is to not have to worry about Mirran Crusader in this deck I'd think. I don't like Bump In the Night it's more of all in card, that a supporting card for a beatdown deck it just seems "cheap". If you are deadset on Black Red rather than Blue Black I think a nice list would be ( after a lot of feel for zombies )
4 Gravecrawler
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Highborn Ghoul
4 Cemetery Reaper
4 Geralf's Messenger
3 Wakedancer
Instants
4 Brimstone Volley
4 Incinerate
3 Tragic Slip
3 Geth's Verdict
1 Mortapod
Lands
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Dragonskull Summit
2 Mountain
12 Swamp
4 Manic Vandal
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Sever The Bloodline
3 Act Of Aggression
3 Go For The Throat
I'd probably add a second Mortapod, the deck is crying for a consistent 2drop slot and that card works VERY well with the Morbid Synergy this list has. The deck curves out at 3 before anyone says it 22 IS ENOUGH! I'd say try this list opposed to your list and see how it works. Obvious changes can be made like Incinerate could certainly turn into Arc Trail, or a mixture of Arc Trail/Galvanic Blast. The sieboard is pretty fantastic and tight. Don't know what you'd cut to fit in Arc Trail so I simply left it out.
To your questions.
Lashwrithe has been horrible for me, it's 4 Mana and high for the curve and with little no evasion and half the format being powerhouse Token decks I don't think Lashwrithe has a place unless you're infect.
Cemetery Reaper has surprisingly good in my UB List I;ve had amazing success with, I only run 2 but eachtime he's a must kill, pumps your guys and does a lot when you need to break a standstill he's really underrated very solid.
Act Of Aggression is simply a fantastic sideboard card, no doubt about it. With the burn version of this deck it's a work of art to be able to get out those extra points of damage to seal the deal.
Not a fan of Veil, it dies too easily and you never want to be on the defensive ( obviously half the deck either can't block or comes into play tapped ) you won't get much worth out of it. The best card against control for me has been Mimic Vat, I'd suggest you try it awesome card right there if they don't have Oblivion RIng they simply lose, just time the play well and it should land control isn't counter heavy anymore.
Crush is ehh, I'd rather run Manic Vandal he kills an artifact and helps with the pressure as he is a 2/2 body to add to the legion of Zombies. Phyrexian Revoker isn't horrible but he's not exactly a great answer as he dies easily and you usually don't want to play him early.
Wurmcoil doesn't get much play, but yeah Sever the Bloodline does get rid of that guy. What Sever the Bloodline is so good for is sweeping away tons of tokens and then flashing it back and doing it again. It's a very powerful card, a little expensive but I wouldn't take it out as a 2 of sideboard.
I don't think Zombies will be that prevalent and typically the better player wins the mirror match I don't think Surgical Extraction is that strong personally I'd not have it in the deck anywhere. Nothing will be like Extirpate no matter how bad you wish it to be. That card could for 1 black always completely wreck some of the strongest cards in the format when it was in standard like Teachings, Momentary Blink, Dredge, and quite a bit more still...Surgical Extraction isn't 1/10th of the card Extirpate was.
Hopefully this helps
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Mountain
11 Swamp
Creatures: 23
4 Highborn Ghoul
4 Gravecrawler
4 Diregraf Ghoul
3 Fume Spitter
4 Geralf's Messenger
4 Cemetary Reaper
2 Sword Of War And Peace
Sorceries: 3
3 Arc Trail
Instant: 10
3 Incinerate
3 Tragic Slip
4 Brimstone Volley
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=299420
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http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=299420
If youre playing smallpox, youre not gonna hit 4 mana in a lot of games.
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http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=299420
This list is very consistent. I've gone ahead and made a few changes to really end the game quickly. This is my list. I gotta say I do miss Altar's Reaping my own Messenger for 2 life and 2 cards, but hey, you can't win em all.
4 Gravecrawler
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Highborn Ghoul
4 Cemetery Reaper
4 Geralf's Messenger
2 Wakedancer
Instants (16)
4 Brimstone Volley
4 Incinerate
2 Mortarpod
3 Tragic Slip
3 Arc Trail
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Dragonskull Summit
2 Mountain
12 Swamp
4 Manic Vandal
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Sever The Bloodline
3 Act Of Aggression
3 Nihil Spellbomb
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After testing I suggest a few things. Against Mono Red especially the lists that run Planeswalkers and abuse sweepers it's a very close matchup and really dependent on drawing Geralf's Messenger even against Red Deck wins. Sideboarding in 3-4 Phyrexian Crusader can make the difference and sway it into your favor. It's a better sideboard can than you'd think.
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Yeah I meant to say Obliterator, not Crusader.
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Skinrender or Obliterator is the best replacement, and she has been absolutely terrible I must agree.
Black Red- With Zombies burn is something you really need, no matter what you want to do with the deck it should always curve out on 3, some of the best 1drops and 3drops in the entire format that are meant to attack. Brimstone Volleys are very consistent in this deck and when that's so it's an incredible card. Incinerate is incinerate if you are Red it's never less than solid. The access to cards like Arc Trail, Manic Vandal and Act of aggression are really solid.
The problem with Black Red Zombies is how great Diregraf Captain simply is and the ability to have access to 8 lords instead of 4 can really make your deck consistently powerful, where you don't need to rely on burn, the Black Red list just seems to come up short and not consistently pressure the way Blue Black does.
Blue Black- It's a little more consistent and explosive, it's creature heavy because it's truly played as a Zombie Tribe deck. But the thing is, the way I made the list with 4 Geralf's Messenger 4 Diregraf Captain 4 Vapor Snag and 4 Geth's Verdict it does have ways to squeeze out those extra points of damage just like red, it curves better and attacks harder. I must say I prefer this list. The access to Mana Leaks in the sideboard is very strong and Vapor Snags are so much better than you'd ever expect, certainly better than tragic slip.
Here's both of my lists.
Blue Black Zombies Record 22-5 ( Against only Competitive, high level decks)
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Gravecrawler
2 Phantasmal Image
4 Highborn Ghoul
4 Geralf's Messenger
4 Diregraf Captain
2 Cemetery Reaper
2 Skinrender
4 Vapor Snag
4 Geth's Verdict
4 Go For The Throat
Lands
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Drowned Catacombs
12 Swamp
2 Island
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Mimic Vat
3 Doom Blade
2 Sever The Bloodline
Red Black Zombies Record 7-3 ( against all competitive and high level decks )
4 Gravecrawler
4 Diregraf Ghoul
4 Highborn Ghoul
4 Geralf's Messenger
4 Cemetery Reaper
2 Wakerunner
Instants
4 Incinerate
4 Brimstone Volley
3 Tragic Slip
3 Geth's Verdict
2 Mortapod
Lands
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Dragonskull Summit
12 Swamp
2 Mountain
4 Manic Vandal
4 Phyreian Obliterator
3 Ratchet Bomb
1 Sever The Bloodline
3 Act of Aggression
Whenever I played Red Black Zombies I just sort of felt like I should play Mono Red instead honestly, it just lacked a little bit of the consistency Mono Red or Blue Black Zombies have and it doesn't have the reach of cards like Shrine and Chandra's Phoenix and it doesn't make it's creatures so threatening and problematic as Blue Black does.
Also in the blue black list, I'm testing no Mana Leaks sideboard, they will most likely comeback but I haven't been able to really use them so far so I'm going to see how they do without is all. It's a very comforting card to have in your board, I wouldn't suggest cutting it like I have at the moment.
No offensive but if you know Gerry Thompson like I do or most of the other Channel Fireball and SCGs pro writers....you'd know they aren't anything to be taken to heart the majority of the time. Especially on deck ideas.
I can picture getting my Lashwrithed Obliterator hit with Wrack with Madness. g2?
seriously though, mono-black is as it has been for the last couple of years. It's quite scary when it jumps out to a lead, but I don't think it's resilient enough. There is to much to be gained by splashing
Standard:
GU Prophet
Legacy:
WBU Shared Fate
Trades
You say that the RB list feels like the reach is missing because of a lack of Shrine and Phoenix. Well, I actually run a pair of Shrines in my list. Wakerunners in your list should just be Stormblood Berserkers (or another 2 drop that I'll point out later on in the post). Sure they don't have that much synergy with the rest of the Zombies, but he's a very aggressive 2 drop. Also, your lack of Faithless Looting in the deck answers a lot of your consistency issues. Tragic Slip is unnecessary in the RB list, and some number of Arc Trails should be main. You're running a bit heavy on the Volleys, and while Mortarpod can be really good, it feels like there are other cards that should be in that 2 drop slot.
I do question the lack of Snapcaster Mage in your UB list though. Definitely not the full set, but 2 or 3 could definitely give you some extra options. I'd probably drop 1 Skinrender and 1 Highborn Ghoul.
Its not his lists, but they look quite similar to what I was working on.
2x Sword of War and Peace
Creatures
4x Diregraf Ghoul
3x Falkenrath Aristocrat
4x Geralf's Messenger
4x Gravecrawler
2x Grim Lavamancer
4x Stormblood Berserker
2x Torch Fiend
2x Brimstone Volley
4x Incinerate
Sorceries
4x Arc Trail
3x Faithless Looting
Basic Lands
3x Mountain
11x Swamp
Lands
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
4x Dragonskull Summit
1x Sword of War and Peace
4x Phyrexian Crusader
3x Act of Aggression
3x Blasphemous Act
4x Distress
This list makes me very excited to try out Torch Fiend in the mainboard as another 2 drop creature. Swapping out those 2 for a pair of Highborn Ghouls, and dropping 1 Aristocrat ends up looking like my exact creature suite. Faithless Looting shows up here too. It is really really good here, and you guys should listen to me about this card in the RB lists.
The swords are a good take, and should probably be tested. They give the deck a bit more power for the token strategies, and gives more resilience against Mono Red in game 1.
The sideboard seems only okay though. Act of Aggression is great, and so is Crusader. It is funny to see Blasphemous Act in here, as I was mentioning this to some of the guys last FNM as a sideboard card vs. token decks. They generally don't have less than 4 creatures on the board, and having just 2 creatures on my side makes this cost the same as Slagstorm without the second :symr:. Another Sword against the same token strategies and red decks, and with Distress for Control decks. Basically, Distress takes out 1 sweeper, a Gideon, or an Elesh Norn against anything White based. The board will definitely need some major tweaking, but the main looks pretty sweet.
4x Cemetery Reaper
4x Diregraf Ghoul
4x Falkenrath Aristocrat
4x Geralf's Messenger
4x Gravecrawler
3x Highborn Ghoul
2x Skinrender
4x Brimstone Volley
3x Geth's Verdict
4x Incinerate
Basic Lands
1x Mountain
11x Swamp
Lands
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
4x Dragonskull Summit
4x Evolving Wilds
3x Ratchet Bomb
2x Skinrender
3x Manabarbs
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Arc Trail
3x Distress
This list looks like it is tuned a lot more to beat the broad metagame. The mainboard looks like nothing special until you see a full set of 4 Aristocrats. That's right, 4! I would never run 4 Evolving Wilds in this kind of deck, as you will open hands of 2 wilds, and multiple 1 drops, and feel like you shot yourself in the foot.
The sideboard looks a bit more tuned against the control decks. I really like running Mana Barbs, as it really is just an "I win" card against control or ramp. Ratchet Bombs, Arc Trails, and Distress look good. But 2 more Skinrenders and the Surgicals have me thinking those are just placeholders at the moment. He probably should be running some form of artifact hate there.
This Black Red list is much more solid, though I did say previously that I didn't think it was a Zombie deck but a Black Red sligh deck that was most viable. I made lists that were guided towards the thread, but I guess it could be considered a Zombie deck, either way much better than the list I posted.
non taken. but what do you mean that they arent anything to be taken to heart especially on deck ideas? shouldn't we listen to them because they have alot of experience?
im with you sir. i came to start dark ascension dreaming of mono black zombies. however its getting less and less support. I have no problem trying out both RB and Ub builds. Im not a very experienced player so i tend to listen to people that have more knowledge than me.
@archie
sir question... what makes falkenrath aristocrat good in this deck? like you said he should be sided out against BW toekns due to chump blockers. but what makes him good in general for this deck?