I am concerned about how this deck evolves post rotation. Do people have thoughts on where were going with this, as we do lose some fundamental pieces. I really had fun playing this deck
M13 gives a replacement for elves in Arbor Elf, but not for BoP. Losing the Zenith is another big hit, as the Trackers don't do quite the same thing and are more limited.
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been considering cutting down to 3 rancor. its a great card but when i already have 1-2 id prefer something else. ill probably bring in the metamorph from the side for it.
I have to admit, this was my instinctual reaction as well - a clean list with 4 copies of all the stuff you want early. The issue is that this iteration of the deck lacks a backup plan and is very dependant on miracling a Revenge. What I realized is that you are going all-in on those T1 Dork, T2 Geist+ Rancor starts, and you won't be able to dig yourself out of a hole if you start slow. You are really losing out on the power and flexibility of GSZ if you don't run at least a couple of bullets. Ulvenwald Tracker can bail you out of board clogs and slow starts, and something like Silklash Spider is very important against Delver, Talrand, and Lingering Souls decks.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
Another major problem that I have had playing the deck is with revenge of the hunted, and how inconsistent it is. This is a deck that rewards consistency and planning. Often times, having it on turns 2 or 3 is literally irrelevant because they either don't have the creatures in play, or it means that you won't have any pressure on them the following turn. This means that it becomes better to not play it and curve out. But then, a six mana sorcery becomes something way too slow for this deck to want to cast, and becomes a dead card in hand for 4 turns or so. The point is that while the card is often a blow out, the opportunity cost is too high. Or at least certainly as a 4 of. I could potentially see 2 so that the games where you draw it on turn 6, wrath their board, or flat out kill them are still there.
I disagree about Revenge being too slow to hardcast. With 8 mana dorks I almost always have enough mana to hardcast it when I need it, which is usually earlier than turn 6. However, I will agree that 4 is too many, I feel like 2 is the optimal amount. So far it has proven very powerful in testing for me.
I'm also trying out a 1 Predator Ooze in place of a Wolfir Avenger. Though it's terrible against Vapor Snag, it's nearly unanswerable against R/G aggro, and has good synergy with Ulvenwald Tracker. Speaking of the Avenger, how does everyone feel about this card? I personally run 3 and think he's a very good 3 drop, and better than the Ooze against most decks. He's aggressive and can easily flash in to kill an attacker. However I see alot of lists here without him, which is making me wonder if there's something better I should be playing.
I'll be playing this deck for its first FNM this Saturday and will let everyone know how it goes.
ok, i'm kinda confused, i was looking at the mono green deck in the tournament, are both m12 and m13 legal? because dungrove is only m12, but rancor is m13 :?
i thought only one core set is legal at a time?
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ok, i'm kinda confused, i was looking at the mono green deck in the tournament, are both m12 and m13 legal? because dungrove is only m12, but rancor is m13 :?
ah back when things made sense and we had time to dev decks over years instead of days were when you could only use one core set.
So i have done some testing and find that virdian emmisary ends up being a better creature overall for a couple reasons vs borderland ranger.
Early game it comes in as a 2/1 and swings never netting you a land but getting in for a few damage ( much like strangleroot it gets in there because they don't want to give you card advantage while losing theirs ), which isn't a big deal unless you kept the hand because you needed a land and looked at this as your land drop ( don't do this it's a mistake ).
mid game: becomes a chump blocker or a 4/1 trampler that they MUST deal with while netting you a land
end game: well let's just say it isnt as dead of a card as llanowar elves due to the 2/1 instead of 1/1
On top of all of this: it costs 2 instead of 3
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best answer to mirran crusader is to just race, once dungrove has trample you can just run through crusader with trample because you only have to " deal " crusader 2 damage and the rest flows through.
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I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
So, I have been testing this deck on mws quite a bit and I liked it enough to build it on modo. it has been running nicely, going 3-0 in a couple 8 mans and winning almost all of my 2 mans. I am going to start doing dailies tomorrow since I don't have to work for the next 3 or so days.
I am fairly happy with the list that i have right now. The main thing that I seem to lose to is Wurmcoil engine... and I would like some help with that. I'm not sure if there is anything that i can run to deal with it effectively.
Outside of dungrove I would consider metamorph the mvp of the deck. he is so good at either making your beatings more consistent or abusing the cards that your opponents are using. he also kills legends and with giest he becomes even more taxing. Typically he is dungrove 5-6 but on aggressive draws he is geist as well.
I started at 8 dorks and 4 rancors but found that these cards just didn't match up to what i wanted to do. they are extremely good and I would consider a necessity in the deck but I have not missed the 4th rancor, nor has 1 dork hurt me.
Thrun is in the mb because he does everything i want him to do... literally. he outranges most decks that we have problems with and he thrashes control decks. a rancor on thrun against control is typically gg, turn 2 dungrove into turn 3 thrun is also gg, most aggro decks cannot deal with him at all and he does a fair job at everything g1. Against aggro decks i side him out g2/g3 for silverheart.
2 thragtusk and no silverheart mb. I was originally running the 1/1 split and it was doing fine; but I came to the conclusion that the mu's where silverheart wins you games are already in your favor and then he is either win more card or a mediocre draw after bonfire or other wrath effects. Thragtusk is almost always worth playing, the only reason why he doesn't have a higher count in the main is because the deck really doesn't want to be sitting until turn 4/5 to cast the multiple copies in hand. The mu's where thragtusk is bad are not really made better by silverheart in g1 (like infect).
Garruk, primal hunter- I was extremely sceptical of garruk at first. Typically a pw that costs 5 is hard to get over for me but garruk puts work in. He creates a huge board swing with a 3/3 every turn, they can't let him get to ulty unless they have like 2 great sweepers and he draws you a ton of cards. I have done a 180 on him and he is probably the last 5 drop i would cut.
Sideboard
I started off running 2 crushing vines and no naturalizes, then I went to 3 crushing vines, then 2 crushing and 2 nats, and then 4 crushing and 2 nats. There are not that many decks that crushing vines isn't worth using against. there are a lot of decks where crushing vines is just a better removal than dismember and then there are mu's like tempered steel and trading post and birthing pod where a lot of the targets are either artifacts or flying. siding in 6 great removal spells vs these types of decks and then riding thrun/dungrove to victory has worked really well for me.
I moved revenge of the hunted to the sb after starting with 3 in the main because of the amount of times i either opened with it, or topdecked it and didn't have creatures or didn't have 6 mana. It is such a powerful effect that it is worth using in mu's like tokens or on huge boards that it still has a spot in the 75 but I hate the inconsistency of it. I added corrosive gale as secret tech vs miracle and to bring in vs various delver/flying dudes. I am still testing it and I am not sure if it deserves the slots.
Wolfir silverheart, rachet bomb, dismember should all be obvious.
Like I said above, I am not sure what to do against wurmcoil engine apart from crushing vines and naturalize. I don't know if there is anything I can do.
I don't know if it is bad luck on modo or just a problem the deck has but I seem to get land flooded way to often.
I agree about the phyrexian metamorph. Most of the times i copy a Dungrove or Acidic Slime, or some swords, but it is also very usefull copying very annoing opponent´s creatures or artifacts.
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Keep in mind that the goodness of Primal Hunter is inversely proportional to how many people run Zealous Conscripts. He's a good meta call ATM, but that can change.
Metamorph copying a Geist is one of my favorite plays, because it's aggressive but also forces the opponent to make a lot of weird decisions. If you're ahead early (which you often are), then it keeps you ahead. As soon as the board is in their favor, you can suicide him to establish some parity.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
I agree about the phyrexian metamorph. Most of the times i copy a Dungrove or Acidic Slime, or some swords, but it is also very usefull copying very annoing opponent´s creatures or artifacts.
wow that is a good thought..and it can be a 3cmc if need be. dang, i should have thought of that. it can legend-rule too, which is relevant in some matchups. how many is the right number in most decks since its not green sun's zenith-able?
wow that is a good thought..and it can be a 3cmc if need be. dang, i should have thought of that. it can legend-rule too, which is relevant in some matchups. how many is the right number in most decks since its not green sun's zenith-able?
I was thinking of adding in oblivion rings for the wurm coil engine, put a couple of em in the sb with like 1-2 sunpetal groves and the birds would probably do it. or maybe 1 borderland ranger 1 plains and the rings.
I was thinking of adding in oblivion rings for the wurm coil engine, put a couple of em in the sb with like 1-2 sunpetal groves and the birds would probably do it. or maybe 1 borderland ranger 1 plains and the rings.
Any thoughts?
right now for my lands i have 24 total - 18 forests, 4 sunpetal grove, and 2 gavony township; they pump my creatures/make mana dorks more useful when i dont need mana.
right now for my lands i have 24 total - 18 forests, 4 sunpetal grove, and 2 gavony township; they pump my creatures/make mana dorks more useful when i dont need mana.
do you notice it affecting your dungrove? i don't think it really would too much but it may be a problem
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Curse PremiumM13 gives a replacement for elves in Arbor Elf, but not for BoP. Losing the Zenith is another big hit, as the Trackers don't do quite the same thing and are more limited.
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the deck wont be the same after rotation maybe even become nonexistent. ravnica will bring dual color deck ideas.
updated list
04 Birds of Paradise
04 Llanowar Elves
04 Strangleroot Geist
04 Dungrove Elder
02 Champion of Lambholt
01 Phyrexian Metamorph
02 Wolfir Silverheart
01 Vorapede
01 Acidic Slime
04 Green Sun's Zenith
04 Revenge of the Hunted
Enchantments - 04
04 Rancor
Planeswalkers - 02
02 Garruk Relentless
Lands - 23
23 Forest
02 Naturalize
02 Ratchet Bomb
02 Beast Within
02 Thrun, the Last Troll
02 Surgical Extraction
02 Spellskite
02 Silklash Spider
01 Phyrexian Metamorph
been considering cutting down to 3 rancor. its a great card but when i already have 1-2 id prefer something else. ill probably bring in the metamorph from the side for it.
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Dungrove Elder
4 Predator Ooze
1 Viridian Corrupter
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Wolfir Silverheart
4 Rancor
4 Revenge of the Hunted
1 Acidic Slime
1 Stingerfling Spider
2 Thragtusk
2 Prey Upon
2 Crushing Vines
2 Beast Within
2 Dismember
2 Sword of War and Peace
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
I have to admit, this was my instinctual reaction as well - a clean list with 4 copies of all the stuff you want early. The issue is that this iteration of the deck lacks a backup plan and is very dependant on miracling a Revenge. What I realized is that you are going all-in on those T1 Dork, T2 Geist+ Rancor starts, and you won't be able to dig yourself out of a hole if you start slow. You are really losing out on the power and flexibility of GSZ if you don't run at least a couple of bullets. Ulvenwald Tracker can bail you out of board clogs and slow starts, and something like Silklash Spider is very important against Delver, Talrand, and Lingering Souls decks.
20 Forest
Creature - 24
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Dungrove Elder
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Arbor Elf
2 Yeva, Nature's Herald
1 Silklash Spider
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Genesis Wave
3 Ranger’s Path
Enchantment - 4
4 Rancor
2 Sword of war and peace
2 Prey Upon
2 Thragtusk
1 Viridian Corrupter
2 Wolfir Silverheart
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Ground Seal
still working with that list. Tried it on casual game and seems to be doing great than expected any comments is appreciated.
I disagree about Revenge being too slow to hardcast. With 8 mana dorks I almost always have enough mana to hardcast it when I need it, which is usually earlier than turn 6. However, I will agree that 4 is too many, I feel like 2 is the optimal amount. So far it has proven very powerful in testing for me.
I'm also trying out a 1 Predator Ooze in place of a Wolfir Avenger. Though it's terrible against Vapor Snag, it's nearly unanswerable against R/G aggro, and has good synergy with Ulvenwald Tracker. Speaking of the Avenger, how does everyone feel about this card? I personally run 3 and think he's a very good 3 drop, and better than the Ooze against most decks. He's aggressive and can easily flash in to kill an attacker. However I see alot of lists here without him, which is making me wonder if there's something better I should be playing.
I'll be playing this deck for its first FNM this Saturday and will let everyone know how it goes.
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Dungrove Elder
3 Llanowar Elves
4 Strangleroot Geist
1 Thragtusk
1 Bellowing Tanglewurm
1 Viridian Corrupter
4 Wolfir Avenger
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Wolfir Avenger
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Revenge of the Hunted
3 Rancor
2 Sword of War and Peace
3 Crushing Vines
2 Naturalize
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Batterskull
2 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Wolfir Silverheart
3 Mental Misstep
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
The only switch in the Main that I would do is:
-2 SoWP
+1 Green Sun's Zenith
+1 Rancor
thoughts on that?
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:symw::symg:Township Tokens 19-8-0 (ret. 2/24/12)
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i thought only one core set is legal at a time?
UWUW ControlUW
UGWSpiritsUGW
GHardened ScalesG
WGRUKiki PodWGRU [RIP]
Both are legal until October 5:
http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/resources.aspx?x=judge/resources/sfrstandard
TYPE 2: Best Builds
:symw::symg:Township Tokens 19-8-0 (ret. 2/24/12)
2012 Standard Platinum TCQ - Lowell, MA: Top 20
2012 MaxPoint TCG Open 5k - Providence: Top 35
So i have done some testing and find that virdian emmisary ends up being a better creature overall for a couple reasons vs borderland ranger.
Early game it comes in as a 2/1 and swings never netting you a land but getting in for a few damage ( much like strangleroot it gets in there because they don't want to give you card advantage while losing theirs ), which isn't a big deal unless you kept the hand because you needed a land and looked at this as your land drop ( don't do this it's a mistake ).
mid game: becomes a chump blocker or a 4/1 trampler that they MUST deal with while netting you a land
end game: well let's just say it isnt as dead of a card as llanowar elves due to the 2/1 instead of 1/1
On top of all of this: it costs 2 instead of 3
RWGNaya AggroGWR
UBZombiesUB
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French Duel Commander
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phyrexian metamorph? ratchet bomb? it doesnt really.
this is the list im playing with tonight.
04 Birds of Paradise
04 Llanowar Elves
04 Strangleroot Geist
04 Dungrove Elder
02 Champion of Lambholt
01 Thrun, the Last Troll
01 Wolfir Silverheart
01 Vorapede
01 Acidic Slime
04 Green Sun's Zenith
04 Revenge of the Hunted
Enchantments - 03
03 Rancor
Instants - 01
01 Dismember
Planeswalkers - 03
02 Garruk Relentless
01 Karn Liberated
Lands - 23
23 Forest
02 Naturalize
02 Ratchet Bomb
02 Beast Within
01 Thrun, the Last Troll
02 Surgical Extraction
02 Spellskite
01 Wolfir Silverheart
01 Silklash Spider
02 Phyrexian Metamorph
RWGNaya AggroGWR
UBZombiesUB
BBBFNM Mono-Black ControlBBB
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Dungrove Elder
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Viridian Corrupter
1 Thragtusk
1 Wolfir Silverheart
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
4 Rancor
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Dismember
2 Sword of War and Peace
2 Revenge of the Hunted
Lands
24 Forest
2 Revenge of the Hunted
2 Sword of War and Peace
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Crushing Vines
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Viridian Corrupter
1 Prey Upon
2 Thragtusk
http://puremtgo.com/articles/going-green-m13
Looks like the ideal list for the meta right now - I just worry a bit about the Talrand decks.
I am fairly happy with the list that i have right now. The main thing that I seem to lose to is Wurmcoil engine... and I would like some help with that. I'm not sure if there is anything that i can run to deal with it effectively.
Creatures
4 llanowar elves
3 birds of paradise
1 ulvenwald tracker
4 dungrove elder
4 strangleroot geist
3 predator ooze
2 phyrexian metamorph
2 thrun, the last troll
2 thragtusk
4 green sun's zenith
3 rancor
3 dismember
2 garruk, primal hunter
2 corrosive gale
4 crushing vines
1 dismember
2 naturalize
2 ratchet bomb
2 revenge of the hunted
2 wolfir silverheart
Outside of dungrove I would consider metamorph the mvp of the deck. he is so good at either making your beatings more consistent or abusing the cards that your opponents are using. he also kills legends and with giest he becomes even more taxing. Typically he is dungrove 5-6 but on aggressive draws he is geist as well.
I started at 8 dorks and 4 rancors but found that these cards just didn't match up to what i wanted to do. they are extremely good and I would consider a necessity in the deck but I have not missed the 4th rancor, nor has 1 dork hurt me.
Thrun is in the mb because he does everything i want him to do... literally. he outranges most decks that we have problems with and he thrashes control decks. a rancor on thrun against control is typically gg, turn 2 dungrove into turn 3 thrun is also gg, most aggro decks cannot deal with him at all and he does a fair job at everything g1. Against aggro decks i side him out g2/g3 for silverheart.
2 thragtusk and no silverheart mb. I was originally running the 1/1 split and it was doing fine; but I came to the conclusion that the mu's where silverheart wins you games are already in your favor and then he is either win more card or a mediocre draw after bonfire or other wrath effects. Thragtusk is almost always worth playing, the only reason why he doesn't have a higher count in the main is because the deck really doesn't want to be sitting until turn 4/5 to cast the multiple copies in hand. The mu's where thragtusk is bad are not really made better by silverheart in g1 (like infect).
Garruk, primal hunter- I was extremely sceptical of garruk at first. Typically a pw that costs 5 is hard to get over for me but garruk puts work in. He creates a huge board swing with a 3/3 every turn, they can't let him get to ulty unless they have like 2 great sweepers and he draws you a ton of cards. I have done a 180 on him and he is probably the last 5 drop i would cut.
Sideboard
I started off running 2 crushing vines and no naturalizes, then I went to 3 crushing vines, then 2 crushing and 2 nats, and then 4 crushing and 2 nats. There are not that many decks that crushing vines isn't worth using against. there are a lot of decks where crushing vines is just a better removal than dismember and then there are mu's like tempered steel and trading post and birthing pod where a lot of the targets are either artifacts or flying. siding in 6 great removal spells vs these types of decks and then riding thrun/dungrove to victory has worked really well for me.
I moved revenge of the hunted to the sb after starting with 3 in the main because of the amount of times i either opened with it, or topdecked it and didn't have creatures or didn't have 6 mana. It is such a powerful effect that it is worth using in mu's like tokens or on huge boards that it still has a spot in the 75 but I hate the inconsistency of it. I added corrosive gale as secret tech vs miracle and to bring in vs various delver/flying dudes. I am still testing it and I am not sure if it deserves the slots.
Wolfir silverheart, rachet bomb, dismember should all be obvious.
Like I said above, I am not sure what to do against wurmcoil engine apart from crushing vines and naturalize. I don't know if there is anything I can do.
I don't know if it is bad luck on modo or just a problem the deck has but I seem to get land flooded way to often.
MTGO Newbie
Current Decks:
Standard: Just drafting for the moment.
Modern: Affinity
Metamorph copying a Geist is one of my favorite plays, because it's aggressive but also forces the opponent to make a lot of weird decisions. If you're ahead early (which you often are), then it keeps you ahead. As soon as the board is in their favor, you can suicide him to establish some parity.
wow that is a good thought..and it can be a 3cmc if need be. dang, i should have thought of that. it can legend-rule too, which is relevant in some matchups. how many is the right number in most decks since its not green sun's zenith-able?
I really like 2
Any thoughts?
right now for my lands i have 24 total - 18 forests, 4 sunpetal grove, and 2 gavony township; they pump my creatures/make mana dorks more useful when i dont need mana.
do you notice it affecting your dungrove? i don't think it really would too much but it may be a problem