ok im gonna actually play FNM today, last week they has 2HG(lame) so this will be a fresh new meta...now on to you all...
@berrberr- your versoin of U/W Architect is really good. the interaction of CITP effects are great, i thought of doing the same thing with almost all of the same cards..like spine is perfect as is metamorph but i wouldnt be too dependant on the interaction.also you are deffinantly missing some key cards...contagion engine needs to be in here as your main deck wrath if anything you dont even need the splash for DOJ...also you need mindslaver as a 1 or 2 of, 1 main 2 side or both main but you need them in there they are too good for the gameplan that white can add to architect...its really worth looking into i will if you want make a sample list later if you dont mind...
@Oathkeeper- i understand what you are saaying some of the list arnt that good but it would be better for the fourm if you would help out instead of down play all fo them like, yes your deck is good i tried it out against some decks had good results but at the same time i used a deck i came up with and came up with the same results, if you dont mind try and give suggestions of what a person could do instead of what tey post...and yes aritfact hate will be in the masses and is a concernto us but it is controlable, now i have looked into the gatherer data base and looked up all the good and bad artifact and enchantment hate in standard..and most of them is in the red and green(obv) with some in white...so really yes we can hate out there hate een with the flashback it will be controlable, i mean we have a lot of tools that can counter act this action, the question is what and how we can use these... now yes you are completely right if you are playin lord of the unreal you are playing illusions and really i dont like the idea of playing it either so i agree with you there...another thing is yea everyone needs to pick the proper ammount of 6+ artifacts and specific cards like 4 cards i have tested is not enough 5 and over is the right ammount i believe 5 is perfect.
...so all in all numbers is the problem eveyone is going off there own master clock no offence..so lets determine i right ammount now...
-blue creatures-
i think there should be between 11-15 guys where architect should be a 4-of and another 2cmc guy also as a 4-of and 3-4 treasure mage and 3-4 other blue cards that you feel your meta is necessary
-5 or less artifact-
maybe 10 or so depending on your build where tumble magnet and clasp should be in there for removal that can add it metalcraft if you want it in there...also you need and i mean NEED spellskite in the main cause in this meta everyone has removal so going back to Oathkeeper one of the ways to protect your cards..and phyrexian metamorph is with out thought its too good in this deck it adds another card to count of any perminant you have in the deck thats not a island
-toolbox-
the main thing there are certian carss everyone needs in the main for any MU dont matter what you are runninig what your gameplan is these need to be in..
1 wurmcoil engine
1 mindslaver
1 contagion engine
...not trolling anyone but if you dont have these in the Main deck...your deck is wrong srry to be blunt, but these are great cards for this deck..the other 2 cards are to your descresion just make sure they are atucally nessisary and towards your cause and not your inner timmy
-lands-
you need 3-4 inkmoth
you need 3-4 buried ruin
you NEED islands lol
...now for the few of you that are splashing then even then you do need to have these cards now i do suggest plain a full set of both duals as in th U/W & U/B
Buried Ruins aren't mandatory. Infect/Proliferate variants can probably do without. Even artifact heavier variants can probably do with just 2 and 3 at most. 4 is IMO too much even against heavy artifact hate. You don't want/need it in your opening hand. Personally I don't even like drawing it before turn 3, where I'm mostly casting blue and there's nothing in my graveyard.
Buried Ruins aren't mandatory. Infect/Proliferate variants can probably do without. Even artifact heavier variants can probably do with just 2 and 3 at most. 4 is IMO too much even against heavy artifact hate. You don't want/need it in your opening hand. Personally I don't even like drawing it before turn 3, where I'm mostly casting blue and there's nothing in my graveyard.
on the inkmoth i totally agree...on the ruins i disagree to have some is necessary in the deck to further control the game by recycling your mindslavers and wurmcoils they are just as needed in the deck as architect is..after extensive testing i've discovered that to be fact..plus its better to be safe than sorry
-toolbox-
the main thing there are certian carss everyone needs in the main for any MU dont matter what you are runninig what your gameplan is these need to be in..
1 wurmcoil engine
1 mindslaver
1 contagion engine
Wurmcoil, yes, you need this card.
Mindslaver, yes, you do need this card. It's good everytime.
Contagion Engine, everyone does not need this card. I will say it's a GREAT sideboard card, but if you're not playing proliferate, it can be a really slow mass removal card. Out of those three, two of which I agree are necessary. If you're not running proliferate, put this in the sideboard and slip in Caged Sun, Myr Battlesphere, something that will either speed you up and have a lasting effect in the game or something of the same fashion that slows them down significantly.
On everything else, it seems fine. I would have to say you don't need Inkmoth Nexus as much as you need Buried Ruin if you are not running proliferate. I mean this very seriously, it is a strategy centered on proliferation and poison. It's good if you're doing a blue proliferate alternate strat, but other than that, it can slow you down. With 23 lands, 19 of which are islands, I think I can afford to put four buried ruin, but a lot of them are important.
You have to consider that Buried Ruins take up basic land slots. For decks with splash that is very limiting. Even with mono infect/proliferate you don't want to draw 2 in your opening hand, which is a mulligan in most cases. Upping the count to 4 just makes that more probable to happen. Sure recycling Mindslaver/Solemn is good and all, but you're only going to do that in long games in which you're sure to draw a Buried Ruin if you have 3. Also, dig spells.
I'd also like to add what I think of Ludevic's Test Subject. I'm afraid the only deck it will fit in is in draw-go decks where its instant speed ability can be abused. At first glance it seems to be a good fit in infect/proliferate, but IMO it isn't. To make the best out of it you'd need to have Thrummingbirds in your deck. Sadly in infect/proliferate that 2-drop slot is better given to Blighted Agent now that Chalices are gone. The bird-egg interaction just isn't anywhere near as good as a bird-chalice to warrant the inclusion of birds in place of agents. Frankly I'd rather play a Plated Seastrider if I'm playing defensively. At least it can kill 1/1s even without GA and it's tougher to boot.
@ Reiki- i have to disagree cause of the fact that engine hits everything..even in a non proliferate build since the original take on this deck is a perminant control deck...and since we will have a problem with creatures we need a wrath and since geist and stalker are real and played they can be a problem and also even w/o infect proliferate its the only wrath we can use w/o splashing...
@flushfire- i fully understand the numbers ive fiddled aroound with the numbers and 8 is sustainable...and to retort you opinion on test subject..u r right but i have mad it work in my favor many times...no bird it more like a mana sink and i distraction for me when they go for it it opens a lane for GA
Right, but that's if you're being swarmed with creatures. Last I remember, control decks don't swarm and a lot of decks now are not swarm decks. If you're fighting against Tempered Steel, Contagion Engine will come out by turn 4 which is too slow and won't stop the attack. By that time, they'd already gotten Tempered Steel. So even against decks we think it's good for, it's not the best answer.
We need removal that makes them go away regardless. Problem creatures are still problems if they're not dead.
First of all GA is no draw-go, it's not even purely control. If you are leaving mana open most of the time you are playing the deck wrong.
Second, the egg is worse than other 2-drops unless you're able to transform it. Sure, it can block small guys and ramp with GA in play. But Plated Seastrider can do that too, its even better at it as it can kill a Porcelain Legionnaire and does not die to Incinerate. The egg HAS to transform for it to be worthwhile.
Third, because it HAS to transform, that means you're either dumping mana into it and/or protecting it until it gets proliferated enough. Dumping mana into it means you are not going to dump mana on instant draw/bounce spells. Protecting it means you are wasting resources that could've gone into protecting more valuable targets like GA.
Fourth, Tezzeret's Gambit makes it more attractive, but I don't see gambit in your list.
And fifth, this thread explains what's not so good about it better than I do.
First of all GA is no draw-go, it's not even purely control. If you are leaving mana open most of the time you are playing the deck wrong.
You can play it as aggro-control if you have an early start. However, most deck lists here don't have fast starts. Only the infect-dagger list can do that. All you need is a dagger and agent or skirge. Against aggro, you can keep tapping out to play more stuff. Against midrange or control, you can leave mana up if you have Mana Leak.
The main problem I see is everyone trying to make Grand Architect into plan A. Putting in cards that don't work well on their own. You won't draw Architect in many games. Yet very few of these decks have an engine to draw or filter cards. You say artifact destruction destroys your deck. Yet your main path to victory is to rely on late-game artifacts.
This is why I'm very worried about the new standard. In general, my two drop was Augury Owl because it did a lot of filtering to get the pieces I want. I felt a lot more confident in my deck's ability to get the pieces I wanted.
Now, there's no two drop cantrip on a creature I can do that with. It means I have to rely on a spell like Forbidden Alchemy or Think twice. It is a problem, but there's got to be an answer.
GA pre-rotation did just fine without it. 'course then it had Halimar and Preordain but still. It's not as big of a loss as Everflowing Chalice is. Seriously, if chalice was still here we won't even consider all these variants. I doubt that'd be the case if it was just Augury Owl that went out.
Riddlesmith, Looter, Ponder, Think Twice, Forbidden Alchemy, Tezzeret's Gambit. They're all there. But IMO the 2-drop creature is crucial to the deck and you don't want to be playing a chump blocker with it. You have to be playing something that mounts preasure or is resilient enough to ward off early attackers and still survive to help you ramp with GA. You want something that invites removal, so that your key cards are safer. You want something that gets you closer to your decks goal. Thrummingbirds did because left alone it enabled magical christmas land. Blighted Agent does all that. Augury Owl does not. It does nothing besides scry, might as well just cast Ponder. It's not a big loss.
What do you guys think of Invisible stalker+ Dagger, rather than Blighted agent+ dagger? I've been getting increasingly cagey about splitting damage from my Wurmcoils and my early game beaters. I think That Stalker is better in this case, as It makes our Coils MORE threatening. I'm tempted to run 3/4 inkmoth as my only infect creatures. They can pick up daggers, and Contagion Engine is still a very potent card.
I built U/b Architecht with Heartless Summoning...
Wow!
This deck was great...problem matchup seems to be Solar Flare. I won against RDW, Geist, and the U/r Vengeance at FNM. I will post a decklist after work but the sideboard is definitely changing to board into more control deck for Solar Flare matchup.
...try this out and please tell us how it works cause it would be good to also find a budget build for the money light players...
@mobo-they both are good in there own light and deck...in a non-infect build stalker is the optimal choice...in an infect build blighted agent is the best card, its all about gameplan
@flushfire- ok after all of that i completly agree on the argumenton the usefullness of test subject so im currently looking for another card...and yes i dont have gambit in my deck and truthfully idky i didnt so i think if anything those will be my 2 replacements unless there is a creature that is better in its place...what besides strider do you suggest as a 2-of
@reiki- ok valid point but its also about timing and proper plays not crapping on your style snce i dont even kno how u pilot ur deck i play more reactive than proactive(lol) and sofar against TS and RDW im not that bad G1 and also im MD against aggro more than control or psudo combo...so maybe thats why i disagree with you and everyone else so b4 things get out of hand sorry...oh and your comment on inkmoth nexus in a non proliferate build..ok trurr but if anything they are counter measuses for your opponents inkmoth and if you feel that way about it, though its not ready for standard yet i would highly advise using ghost quarters as atleast a 2-of so 6 non-island is cool
@Lord of atlantus-tbh..i use the poison plan more than the GA plan as my plan "A" ..and yea only on occasion im scared of the hate against our deck, and thats how i try and build around my maindeck is to counter act like 25% of the hate and another 15% in the side and time when u react..thats just my 2-cents
I wanna try out the non-infect including deck as well, but anyway, how does this look? SB is still in the works but not much different from all the other current ones, Nihil's, some Dismember, probably 3 or 4 mana leaks... I'm afraid of how badly a couple wrath effects will wreck this deck game 1. I think after seeing it in action I'm going to end up running 3 Surgical Extraction SB, wrecks Solar Flare pretty hard and I wouldn't be mad about eating a wrath if I knew it was the last one I'd be seeing that game.
Things I'm considering is dropping a gambit or two for some other draw spells, the spheres for just 2 more island and I need to see how the daggers work before I take them out, I got a chance to play a few games with them and t1 dagger, t2 agent and t3 swing for 5, even if some removal hits him next turn it was super easy to proliferate a few more times.
@flushfire- ok after all of that i completly agree on the argumenton the usefullness of test subject so im currently looking for another card...and yes i dont have gambit in my deck and truthfully idky i didnt so i think if anything those will be my 2 replacements unless there is a creature that is better in its place...what besides strider do you suggest as a 2-of
Honestly I don't think they're bad. I just don't think they're a good fit in the deck since it's fairly well established, if you're running infect, Blighted Agent is the best creature in that spot. Why do you need a 2-drop defender anyway? Spellskite's got that covered. IMO what we lack are turn 1 options.
You don't seem to have any dig or draw. I'd run some Ponders, but that's just me. And with the amount of counters you have you're better off with Forbidden Alchemy than Tezzeret's Gambit.
1.) How does the deck keep itself both different, and competitive, when compared to GA based Illusions decks?
I'm not the most qualified to answer this question but IMO it shouldn't be different. I believe the only way to make the Illusion variant viable is to take it all the way to Illusion and keep GA secondary. The Illusion core is just too big to keep GA main without reducing GA's ability to perform its intended purpose.
2.) What led to people not running Tezzeret? Most of your lists are U/b as is.
I question this as well. Tezzeret is the perfect card to go with Architect. He digs for artifacts. He turns artifacts into blockers and finishers. Not to mention his ultimate wins the game immediately.
Most monoblue lists have no reason to stay mono. The hardest spell to cast is Architect with UU. With eight dual lands which grants blue anyway, you have the same amount of blue lands as in a mono decklist. Furthermore, Sphere of the Suns can fix and speed up mana simultaneously.
3.) How do you cope with splash hate against Puresteel/Tempered Steel/Birthing Pod?
Spellskite and Buried Ruin. Artifact hate has negligible effect on the deck. Might as well ask how a creature-based deck deals with creature removal, which is a lot more prevalent than artifact removal.
Most notable additions are Ponder and Sphere of the Suns. These are worthy replacements for the departure of Everflowing Chalice. That's fine since we have a super fast kill that didn't exist before. Nevertheless, let's not forget why we want to play Architect in the first place. It's so we can drop an early game bomb. However, lots of pieces have to come together at the right time for that to happen. In other words, the probability is pretty low, so we can't rely on blindly drawing Architect into Wurmcoil for most games. Thus, Ponder helps you draws cards in the right order and Spheres speeds up your mana production. In case you don't draw Architect, you can have a better chance to get 6 mana by turn 5 or 6 game after game.
The deck works when it wants to, but for the most part it didn't really work all that well. The few problems that I faced with it was I was not drawing Grand Architect at all or I was mana screwed. When I first played Titan Forge I wasn't able to charge it fast enough and I died, but when I did my poor titan died.
I got more use of Lux Cannon then Titan Forge and I never drew Lux Cannon. Trinket mage didn't come in use only to get the dagger because for some reason I always had the Nodes in my hand. I love Invisible Stalker it was the only thing that was doing damage in the few games I played the deck especially with the dagger. Chimeric Mass gets the same amount of love. <3
The first game I played was a red Vampire deck, second was Green Infect and third was a B/U Grand Architect with Tezz I think. I can give a more detailed account for each game if want.
I'm also feeling splashing a color wouldn't be bad. Before, we had lands that came into play tapped that could do well for our first turn. Now, it's islands and nothing. I feel like we need something to get us rolling. By turn 3, we should be able to play GA and pump out any big artifact in our hand. That's the maximum use out of GA right there.
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Check out my expected lands table at:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Airj6A6lYAz_dG05T2JETnVTak1xQ0tqOHNSdEJLWVE&hl=en_US#gid=0
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/standard/22860_Behind_The_Curtain_Balls_Of_Steel.html
Looks like some focus is being put on abusing Forgemaster and or Spine of Ish Sah.
@berrberr- your versoin of U/W Architect is really good. the interaction of CITP effects are great, i thought of doing the same thing with almost all of the same cards..like spine is perfect as is metamorph but i wouldnt be too dependant on the interaction.also you are deffinantly missing some key cards...contagion engine needs to be in here as your main deck wrath if anything you dont even need the splash for DOJ...also you need mindslaver as a 1 or 2 of, 1 main 2 side or both main but you need them in there they are too good for the gameplan that white can add to architect...its really worth looking into i will if you want make a sample list later if you dont mind...
@Oathkeeper- i understand what you are saaying some of the list arnt that good but it would be better for the fourm if you would help out instead of down play all fo them like, yes your deck is good i tried it out against some decks had good results but at the same time i used a deck i came up with and came up with the same results, if you dont mind try and give suggestions of what a person could do instead of what tey post...and yes aritfact hate will be in the masses and is a concernto us but it is controlable, now i have looked into the gatherer data base and looked up all the good and bad artifact and enchantment hate in standard..and most of them is in the red and green(obv) with some in white...so really yes we can hate out there hate een with the flashback it will be controlable, i mean we have a lot of tools that can counter act this action, the question is what and how we can use these... now yes you are completely right if you are playin lord of the unreal you are playing illusions and really i dont like the idea of playing it either so i agree with you there...another thing is yea everyone needs to pick the proper ammount of 6+ artifacts and specific cards like 4 cards i have tested is not enough 5 and over is the right ammount i believe 5 is perfect.
...so all in all numbers is the problem eveyone is going off there own master clock no offence..so lets determine i right ammount now...
-blue creatures-
i think there should be between 11-15 guys where architect should be a 4-of and another 2cmc guy also as a 4-of and 3-4 treasure mage and 3-4 other blue cards that you feel your meta is necessary
-5 or less artifact-
maybe 10 or so depending on your build where tumble magnet and clasp should be in there for removal that can add it metalcraft if you want it in there...also you need and i mean NEED spellskite in the main cause in this meta everyone has removal so going back to Oathkeeper one of the ways to protect your cards..and phyrexian metamorph is with out thought its too good in this deck it adds another card to count of any perminant you have in the deck thats not a island
-toolbox-
the main thing there are certian carss everyone needs in the main for any MU dont matter what you are runninig what your gameplan is these need to be in..
1 wurmcoil engine
1 mindslaver
1 contagion engine
...not trolling anyone but if you dont have these in the Main deck...your deck is wrong srry to be blunt, but these are great cards for this deck..the other 2 cards are to your descresion just make sure they are atucally nessisary and towards your cause and not your inner timmy
-lands-
you need 3-4 inkmoth
you need 3-4 buried ruin
you NEED islands lol
...now for the few of you that are splashing then even then you do need to have these cards now i do suggest plain a full set of both duals as in th U/W & U/B
-Standard-
GBGlissa the traitorBG
N/A
GCombo ElvesG
Buried Ruins aren't mandatory. Infect/Proliferate variants can probably do without. Even artifact heavier variants can probably do with just 2 and 3 at most. 4 is IMO too much even against heavy artifact hate. You don't want/need it in your opening hand. Personally I don't even like drawing it before turn 3, where I'm mostly casting blue and there's nothing in my graveyard.
on the inkmoth i totally agree...on the ruins i disagree to have some is necessary in the deck to further control the game by recycling your mindslavers and wurmcoils they are just as needed in the deck as architect is..after extensive testing i've discovered that to be fact..plus its better to be safe than sorry
-Standard-
GBGlissa the traitorBG
N/A
GCombo ElvesG
Wurmcoil, yes, you need this card.
Mindslaver, yes, you do need this card. It's good everytime.
Contagion Engine, everyone does not need this card. I will say it's a GREAT sideboard card, but if you're not playing proliferate, it can be a really slow mass removal card. Out of those three, two of which I agree are necessary. If you're not running proliferate, put this in the sideboard and slip in Caged Sun, Myr Battlesphere, something that will either speed you up and have a lasting effect in the game or something of the same fashion that slows them down significantly.
On everything else, it seems fine. I would have to say you don't need Inkmoth Nexus as much as you need Buried Ruin if you are not running proliferate. I mean this very seriously, it is a strategy centered on proliferation and poison. It's good if you're doing a blue proliferate alternate strat, but other than that, it can slow you down. With 23 lands, 19 of which are islands, I think I can afford to put four buried ruin, but a lot of them are important.
I'd also like to add what I think of Ludevic's Test Subject. I'm afraid the only deck it will fit in is in draw-go decks where its instant speed ability can be abused. At first glance it seems to be a good fit in infect/proliferate, but IMO it isn't. To make the best out of it you'd need to have Thrummingbirds in your deck. Sadly in infect/proliferate that 2-drop slot is better given to Blighted Agent now that Chalices are gone. The bird-egg interaction just isn't anywhere near as good as a bird-chalice to warrant the inclusion of birds in place of agents. Frankly I'd rather play a Plated Seastrider if I'm playing defensively. At least it can kill 1/1s even without GA and it's tougher to boot.
@flushfire- i fully understand the numbers ive fiddled aroound with the numbers and 8 is sustainable...and to retort you opinion on test subject..u r right but i have mad it work in my favor many times...no bird it more like a mana sink and i distraction for me when they go for it it opens a lane for GA
-Standard-
GBGlissa the traitorBG
N/A
GCombo ElvesG
We need removal that makes them go away regardless. Problem creatures are still problems if they're not dead.
First of all GA is no draw-go, it's not even purely control. If you are leaving mana open most of the time you are playing the deck wrong.
Second, the egg is worse than other 2-drops unless you're able to transform it. Sure, it can block small guys and ramp with GA in play. But Plated Seastrider can do that too, its even better at it as it can kill a Porcelain Legionnaire and does not die to Incinerate. The egg HAS to transform for it to be worthwhile.
Third, because it HAS to transform, that means you're either dumping mana into it and/or protecting it until it gets proliferated enough. Dumping mana into it means you are not going to dump mana on instant draw/bounce spells. Protecting it means you are wasting resources that could've gone into protecting more valuable targets like GA.
Fourth, Tezzeret's Gambit makes it more attractive, but I don't see gambit in your list.
And fifth, this thread explains what's not so good about it better than I do.
You can play it as aggro-control if you have an early start. However, most deck lists here don't have fast starts. Only the infect-dagger list can do that. All you need is a dagger and agent or skirge. Against aggro, you can keep tapping out to play more stuff. Against midrange or control, you can leave mana up if you have Mana Leak.
The main problem I see is everyone trying to make Grand Architect into plan A. Putting in cards that don't work well on their own. You won't draw Architect in many games. Yet very few of these decks have an engine to draw or filter cards. You say artifact destruction destroys your deck. Yet your main path to victory is to rely on late-game artifacts.
........................
Now, there's no two drop cantrip on a creature I can do that with. It means I have to rely on a spell like Forbidden Alchemy or Think twice. It is a problem, but there's got to be an answer.
Riddlesmith, Looter, Ponder, Think Twice, Forbidden Alchemy, Tezzeret's Gambit. They're all there. But IMO the 2-drop creature is crucial to the deck and you don't want to be playing a chump blocker with it. You have to be playing something that mounts preasure or is resilient enough to ward off early attackers and still survive to help you ramp with GA. You want something that invites removal, so that your key cards are safer. You want something that gets you closer to your decks goal. Thrummingbirds did because left alone it enabled magical christmas land. Blighted Agent does all that. Augury Owl does not. It does nothing besides scry, might as well just cast Ponder. It's not a big loss.
Wow!
This deck was great...problem matchup seems to be Solar Flare. I won against RDW, Geist, and the U/r Vengeance at FNM. I will post a decklist after work but the sideboard is definitely changing to board into more control deck for Solar Flare matchup.
22 Island
Creatures (20):
4 Grand Architect
3 Treasure Mage
4 Trinket Mage
4 Invisible Stalker
2 Hex Parasite
2 Thopter Assembly
1 Steel Hellkite
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Stoic Rebuttal
3 Ponder
2 Tezzeret's Gambit
2 Lux Cannon
3 Surge Nod
2 Contagion Clasp
ok i gotcha...im gonna assume budget is under $4...so here's what i got..everyonne else if you got a suggestion please add imput to help this guy...
3 trinket mage
1 treasure mage
4 invisable stalker
4 Vedalken certarch
3 chimeric mass
2 silver-inlaid dagger
1 sylvok life staff
3 contagion clasp
2 surge nod
3 stoic rebuttal
3 mana leak
2 lux cannon
2 titan forge
1 spine of ish sah
2 phyrexia's core
16 island
...try this out and please tell us how it works cause it would be good to also find a budget build for the money light players...
@mobo-they both are good in there own light and deck...in a non-infect build stalker is the optimal choice...in an infect build blighted agent is the best card, its all about gameplan
@flushfire- ok after all of that i completly agree on the argumenton the usefullness of test subject so im currently looking for another card...and yes i dont have gambit in my deck and truthfully idky i didnt so i think if anything those will be my 2 replacements unless there is a creature that is better in its place...what besides strider do you suggest as a 2-of
@reiki- ok valid point but its also about timing and proper plays not crapping on your style snce i dont even kno how u pilot ur deck i play more reactive than proactive(lol) and sofar against TS and RDW im not that bad G1 and also im MD against aggro more than control or psudo combo...so maybe thats why i disagree with you and everyone else so b4 things get out of hand sorry...oh and your comment on inkmoth nexus in a non proliferate build..ok trurr but if anything they are counter measuses for your opponents inkmoth and if you feel that way about it, though its not ready for standard yet i would highly advise using ghost quarters as atleast a 2-of so 6 non-island is cool
@Lord of atlantus-tbh..i use the poison plan more than the GA plan as my plan "A" ..and yea only on occasion im scared of the hate against our deck, and thats how i try and build around my maindeck is to counter act like 25% of the hate and another 15% in the side and time when u react..thats just my 2-cents
@infinantedamage- cant wait to see what you have
-Standard-
GBGlissa the traitorBG
N/A
GCombo ElvesG
4 Blighted Agent
2 Treasure Mage
1 Trinket Mage
4 Grand Architecht
4 Spellskite
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Sphere of the Suns
2 Contagion Clasp
1 Mindslaver
1 Caged Sun
1 Contagion Engine
2 Tezzeret's Gambit
2 Ponder
16 Island
2 Buried Ruin
4 Inkmoth Nexus
I wanna try out the non-infect including deck as well, but anyway, how does this look? SB is still in the works but not much different from all the other current ones, Nihil's, some Dismember, probably 3 or 4 mana leaks... I'm afraid of how badly a couple wrath effects will wreck this deck game 1. I think after seeing it in action I'm going to end up running 3 Surgical Extraction SB, wrecks Solar Flare pretty hard and I wouldn't be mad about eating a wrath if I knew it was the last one I'd be seeing that game.
Things I'm considering is dropping a gambit or two for some other draw spells, the spheres for just 2 more island and I need to see how the daggers work before I take them out, I got a chance to play a few games with them and t1 dagger, t2 agent and t3 swing for 5, even if some removal hits him next turn it was super easy to proliferate a few more times.
Honestly I don't think they're bad. I just don't think they're a good fit in the deck since it's fairly well established, if you're running infect, Blighted Agent is the best creature in that spot. Why do you need a 2-drop defender anyway? Spellskite's got that covered. IMO what we lack are turn 1 options.
You don't seem to have any dig or draw. I'd run some Ponders, but that's just me. And with the amount of counters you have you're better off with Forbidden Alchemy than Tezzeret's Gambit.
Yeah, that's definitely too many gambits.
1.) How does the deck keep itself both different, and competitive, when compared to GA based Illusions decks?
2.) What led to people not running Tezzeret? Most of your lists are U/b as is.
3.) How do you cope with splash hate against Puresteel/Tempered Steel/Birthing Pod?
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I'm not the most qualified to answer this question but IMO it shouldn't be different. I believe the only way to make the Illusion variant viable is to take it all the way to Illusion and keep GA secondary. The Illusion core is just too big to keep GA main without reducing GA's ability to perform its intended purpose.
One of the best turn 1 in standard now is Vault Skirge. Vedalken Certarch and Hex Parasite are also fine if you need an early blocker (e.g. against Stromkirk Noble.) Ponder is also good if you didn't draw a 1cc critter. Last but not least, the quick kill enabler turn 1 Silver-Inlaid Dagger, followed by Blighted Agent.
I question this as well. Tezzeret is the perfect card to go with Architect. He digs for artifacts. He turns artifacts into blockers and finishers. Not to mention his ultimate wins the game immediately.
Most monoblue lists have no reason to stay mono. The hardest spell to cast is Architect with UU. With eight dual lands which grants blue anyway, you have the same amount of blue lands as in a mono decklist. Furthermore, Sphere of the Suns can fix and speed up mana simultaneously.
Spellskite and Buried Ruin. Artifact hate has negligible effect on the deck. Might as well ask how a creature-based deck deals with creature removal, which is a lot more prevalent than artifact removal.
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This is my latest list.
8 Island
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Buried Ruin
Creatures
3 Vedalken Certarch
4 Vault Skirge
4 Blighted Agent
3 Spellskite
4 Grand Architect
2 Treasure Mage
2 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Silver-Inlaid Dagger
3 Ponder
4 Sphere of the Suns
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Contagion Engine
1 Mindslaver
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Hex Parasite
4 Mana Leak
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Torpor Orb
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Trinket Mage
Most notable additions are Ponder and Sphere of the Suns. These are worthy replacements for the departure of Everflowing Chalice. That's fine since we have a super fast kill that didn't exist before. Nevertheless, let's not forget why we want to play Architect in the first place. It's so we can drop an early game bomb. However, lots of pieces have to come together at the right time for that to happen. In other words, the probability is pretty low, so we can't rely on blindly drawing Architect into Wurmcoil for most games. Thus, Ponder helps you draws cards in the right order and Spheres speeds up your mana production. In case you don't draw Architect, you can have a better chance to get 6 mana by turn 5 or 6 game after game.
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3 trinket mage
1 treasure mage
4 invisable stalker
4 Vedalken certarch
3 chimeric mass
2 silver-inlaid dagger
1 sylvok life staff
3 contagion clasp
2 surge nod
3 stoic rebuttal
3 mana leak
2 lux cannon
2 titan forge
1 spine of ish sah
2 phyrexia's core
16 island
The deck works when it wants to, but for the most part it didn't really work all that well. The few problems that I faced with it was I was not drawing Grand Architect at all or I was mana screwed. When I first played Titan Forge I wasn't able to charge it fast enough and I died, but when I did my poor titan died.
I got more use of Lux Cannon then Titan Forge and I never drew Lux Cannon. Trinket mage didn't come in use only to get the dagger because for some reason I always had the Nodes in my hand. I love Invisible Stalker it was the only thing that was doing damage in the few games I played the deck especially with the dagger. Chimeric Mass gets the same amount of love. <3
The first game I played was a red Vampire deck, second was Green Infect and third was a B/U Grand Architect with Tezz I think. I can give a more detailed account for each game if want.