So i'm curious because this deck is looking more and more like the old red metalcraft phoenix decks that ran liquimetal coating.... but now just replace it with trading post.
was that the card we were waiting for?
trading post provides you with so many options and combo opportunities but the deck is highly capable of winning without one. i think hellion crucible deserves a lot of credit too.
as for my list today im going to drop 1 whipflare for 1 slagstorm. maybe 2 for 2? ill decide before fnm starts. good luck to everyone thats playing mono-red post tonight.
I must admit that I'm running Mono White Trading Post tonight instead of Mono Red, but that's because Mono White Control is the archetype I like best aside from Enchantress and Slide. Regardless, good luck to y'all tonight.
So i'm curious because this deck is looking more and more like the old red metalcraft phoenix decks that ran liquimetal coating.... but now just replace it with trading post.
was that the card we were waiting for?
Well, the point of the Liquimetal deck was that you had 187's and Ancient Grudge. But since the deck ran no library manipulation, it just wasn't consistent enough to make any noise outside of block constructed.
I really like the synergy between Trading Post, Wellsprings, and Shrine. This is a bit all-in on the Phoenix, though, so maybe I'll adjust that plan. Also unsure about Solemn Sim... it seems good on paper, but I've never been impressed with it. Mycosynth Wellspring accomplishes almost the exact same thing for 2 less mana.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
I must admit that I'm running Mono White Trading Post tonight instead of Mono Red, but that's because Mono White Control is the archetype I like best aside from Enchantress and Slide. Regardless, good luck to y'all tonight.
got a list?
terminus, DoJ, and indomitable archangel?
Koth would not fit in this deck at all.
A)Vapor snag your mountain? cool.
B) what would you rather play on turn 4, a koth, a simulacrum, removal, a possible phoenix, a post, etc... pick all but the first
C)He is meant for for aggressive red decks like RDW not metalcraft type
mono white actually looks quite good with DoJ, terminus, sun titan, and indomitable archangel look quite good. Sun Titan especially since we can bring back the artifacts we pitch or sac to post (ie. wellsprings and tumble magnet). The great thing about kuldotha pheonix that I like is that its ability uses colourless mana, as long as its in your yard and you have metalcraft you can bring it back. This was the idea behind i dredge deck i was building but thats for another thread. I would very much like to see a mono white list if someone would post theirs.
You would never MD Koth for sure but in a list running Sphere I could very much see SBing into him game 2, turn 3. That can be very harsh early pressure.
while i havent played mono-red trading post specifically, i can say without a doubt that if you arent running 4 MB whipflare, your meta is either super artifact heavy, or you are just doing it wrong. i have had incredible success with whipflare. just go look at the top decks and you'll see why.
whipflare and bonfire are both insane right now. dont leave home without them.
finished 2nd with my mono-red post build i did change 1 whipeflare into a slagstorm. my only loss was in the finals to WB tokens. which one of my best friends was running. he also brought a sideboard that was heavy against me in case we matched up -_- fml. 2 Ratchet Bombs mainboard were my all stars and hellion crucible. that hellion token comes in so clutch.
I personally play 4 color post (currently 11-2 against delver, naya pod, mono green dungrove, solar flare, mono black, frites), and trading post in the right deck is very powerful, and half the time they dilute their deck after board to combat it. However it seems like a lot of you guys are trying to think of all the cute little things that work out in a perfect world where you can do what you want and have the time to do them. It might just be in my meta but SoWaP is very popular in most if not all aggro decks, and it was that way in StarCityOpen St. Louis. So you might want more than 4 possible answers to this.
Things to consider:
Whipflare= is only really good against delver (talrand/Geist build)
Slagstorm= when paired with several 1 mana red burn is what you are really wanting in the aggro games.
How do you deal with a late dungrove or a predator ooze at any point besides your 1 of Karn.
After board: How do you beat other post decks?
Also how do you deal with esper midrange or control (sun titan and phantasmal image)?
And how do you do all of this without diluting the raw power of post?
However it seems like a lot of you guys are trying to think of all the cute little things that work out in a perfect world where you can do what you want and have the time to do them.
I don't see where you come off saying this. Have you even picked up this list? Have you looked at the testing that people have done? It works, and in real situations too. Not just Magical Christmasland.
Yes I have tested the list, but in testing (me and 5 of my friends have been continually testing every trading post deck we can think of) and this one just seems to be either too clunky or if you don't get a trading post (which happens a lot even with 4) against aggro decks it seems to be very lack luster especially mono green or RG equipment, I like what the deck is trying to do but against the other decks if you don't draw the trading post the deck is doing very subpar things and the other slower decks can go a lot bigger.
Played this tonight, will post my build later, but didn't lose a match. Went 2-1-2. Ok, technically, a loss, but I gave it to him for packs and then beat him when we played for fun after.
Best card in the deck? Mimic Vat, surprisingly. Did not lose a game when I hit that.
Worst card? Again, a surprise! Kuldotha phoenix! I was not able to recur one all night. They were always snagged, dayed, terminused or o-ringed.
Best creature? Silly question, wce, of course. That, on a Vat just did stupid things.
There were a bunch of TP decks there tonight. I'm sure Stony Silence will find it's way into SBs next week. Along with mass artifact kill.
I personally play 4 color post (currently 11-2 against delver, naya pod, mono green dungrove, solar flare, mono black, frites), and trading post in the right deck is very powerful, and half the time they dilute their deck after board to combat it. However it seems like a lot of you guys are trying to think of all the cute little things that work out in a perfect world where you can do what you want and have the time to do them. It might just be in my meta but SoWaP is very popular in most if not all aggro decks, and it was that way in StarCityOpen St. Louis. So you might want more than 4 possible answers to this.
Things to consider:
Whipflare= is only really good against delver (talrand/Geist build)
Slagstorm= when paired with several 1 mana red burn is what you are really wanting in the aggro games.
How do you deal with a late dungrove or a predator ooze at any point besides your 1 of Karn.
After board: How do you beat other post decks?
Also how do you deal with esper midrange or control (sun titan and phantasmal image)?
And how do you do all of this without diluting the raw power of post?
4 color post? that sounds awesome! would you post your decklist for us please
i have to say, i definitely disagree about whipflare. whipflare is huge in a lot of matchups. whipflare is often a 2 for 1, if not more in our current standard environment. its important to be able to go turn 2 whipflare because of all of the aggressive starts people try to pull on you. whipflare is good against: accelleration in x/1 mana durdles (2 for 1 a part of their 'manabase' and cripple their plan), wiping zombies (before they get out of control with blood artists and whatnot), killing tokens, killing thalia for 3 mana, etc. etc. etc. dont get me wrong, in some matchups its complete trash, and basically 100% useless. but game 1, i think its fair to say you want to be prepared for aggro because that is what is rampant currently.
personally nearly every time im playing red, and not wanting to tap out for more important threats, im playing with 4 whipflare. i always hope to draw it in my opening 7.
its not the best later in the game, but your deck is ideally designed to start massively pulling its own weight by later in the game, doing absurd things with trading post and what not.
So I brought my list to FNM last night. Went 2-1-1, 5th place out of 12, netted $10. Not bad for going in first time, and without a sideboard.
Here's a short report.
Game 1: 1-2 RG Aggro
All three games went essentially the same. I sat and dug with Ichor Wellspring and Post while he swelled with pressure and I swept him. It was a matter of who got there first. Swords posed a problem, which would have been circumvented if I had a sideboard.
Game 2: 2-1 New Player
Not much to say here. Only lost game one because I went too aggro against an army that I couldn't deal with.
Game 3: 2-1 GW Exalted Midrange
This is the kinds of decks we're designed to prey on. Dig and sweep, drop Phoenixes, have a nice day. The only minor issue I came across was a Sigarda that he dropped, but I circumvented that by digging a bit, ripping a Slagstorm off the top, and using two to get her out of the way.
Game 4: UW Delver 1-1-1
It's a pretty stock list with a decently competent pilot. Game one I manage to control the board decently well, Galvanic Blast on the Delvers, Whipflare on the spirits, Tumble Magnet and Restoration Angels, dig, dig, dig, Phoenix for the win. This game takes about half our time though, because I couldn't get to my business in time. Game 2 he brings in O-Rings and Surgical Extractions, which causes a bit of a headache for me because they drop a turn earlier than Post and I have no way to stop them for working, Phyrexia's Core being the only way, but I only had one of those, being unable to find more. A Resto Angel with a Runechanter's Pike makes easy work of me. Game 3 we have 9 minutes, and from slowing him down, we can't finish in time. We go to turns and draw.
I'm happy with how the deck worked. A couple observations:
- K-Phoenix is such a house all the time. It's not that difficult to get Metalcraft with this deck, and any given hate can be dealt by smart usage of Trading Post.
- This deck has A LOT of dig. On any given turn, I'm drawing 1-3 extra cards.
- Given that, there are times where all this deck can do is dig. It can take a very long time to get to business sometimes.
- You need to use Trading Post smartly. Always keep one untapped through your opponent's turn, and play reactively throughout it, then do your business at the end of your opponent's turn. This is a control deck; remember that.
whipflare hits a large marjority of creatures that come down before t5.
I am curious to see a 4 color post deck.
I think we need to have a thread that isnt just mono red - as fun as this one is.
I am still tweaking the 4 color post list to combat the trading post mirror, but it has white for terminus and day of judgement, blue for think twice(the wellsprings in testing are more unreliable than I would prefer), ponder, snapcaster mage and treasure mage package, black for instant speed removal, and red for pillar of flame and red sun's zenith. It deals with control by going bigger than everyone with nicol bolas, planeswalker for example and staff of nin in that matchup makes it almost unlossable. I will be playing a version of 4 color post at the starcityopen in kansas city which is in 2 weeks.
For those of you wanting to use spine of ish sah and wurmcoil splashing blue just for treasure mage you can thin out your 6 drops and run these which help stall aggro and can block SoWaP until you can drop wurmcoil.
Phyrexian Metamorph has been kind of "meh." I moved them to the sideboard for another Ichor Wellspring and another Mimic Vat. The Wellpring might get switched for another Ratchet Bomb. More testing will be done.
I have found that 2 ratchet bombs are good enough for me. I think siding or maindeck metamorph is a meta call (see what i did there?)... if you have no need for it then keep it sided
I do agree with maybe a singleton spine of ish sah in sideboard.
I like your list though
Phyrexian Metamorph has been kind of "meh." I moved them to the sideboard for another Ichor Wellspring and another Mimic Vat. The Wellpring might get switched for another Ratchet Bomb. More testing will be done.
i noticed you arent using mycosynth wellspring mainboard. in your testing, have you found this card not worth it? personally i feel like this type of strategy wants to have a land to play every turn, and mycosynth helps with this. that being said, it does cost 2 mana to play for pretty minimal gain, until you crack it with post. it very well could be that playing more lands is just as optimal, if not more optimal than playing with mycosynth.
whats everyones thoughts on mycosynth wellspring? the only thing i've solidified in my testing is that i dont want more than MAYBE 6 wellsprings total.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
was that the card we were waiting for?
Currently Playing
UTron
Tahngarth, Talruum Hero
TRADE ME!!!
as for my list today im going to drop 1 whipflare for 1 slagstorm. maybe 2 for 2? ill decide before fnm starts. good luck to everyone thats playing mono-red post tonight.
Check out my expected lands table at:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Airj6A6lYAz_dG05T2JETnVTak1xQ0tqOHNSdEJLWVE&hl=en_US#gid=0
Well, the point of the Liquimetal deck was that you had 187's and Ancient Grudge. But since the deck ran no library manipulation, it just wasn't consistent enough to make any noise outside of block constructed.
Here's a rough version I'm going to test:
4 Phyrexia's Core
2 Buried Ruin
14 Mountain
4 Faithless Looting
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Shrine of Burning Rage
3 Whipflare
4 Ichor Wellspring
4 Pristine Talisman
3 Trading Post
3 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Kuldotha Phoenix
2 Batterskull
I really like the synergy between Trading Post, Wellsprings, and Shrine. This is a bit all-in on the Phoenix, though, so maybe I'll adjust that plan. Also unsure about Solemn Sim... it seems good on paper, but I've never been impressed with it. Mycosynth Wellspring accomplishes almost the exact same thing for 2 less mana.
got a list?
terminus, DoJ, and indomitable archangel?
Currently Playing
UTron
Tahngarth, Talruum Hero
TRADE ME!!!
A)Vapor snag your mountain? cool.
B) what would you rather play on turn 4, a koth, a simulacrum, removal, a possible phoenix, a post, etc... pick all but the first
C)He is meant for for aggressive red decks like RDW not metalcraft type
Currently Playing
UTron
Tahngarth, Talruum Hero
TRADE ME!!!
whipflare and bonfire are both insane right now. dont leave home without them.
Things to consider:
Whipflare= is only really good against delver (talrand/Geist build)
Slagstorm= when paired with several 1 mana red burn is what you are really wanting in the aggro games.
How do you deal with a late dungrove or a predator ooze at any point besides your 1 of Karn.
After board: How do you beat other post decks?
Also how do you deal with esper midrange or control (sun titan and phantasmal image)?
And how do you do all of this without diluting the raw power of post?
I don't see where you come off saying this. Have you even picked up this list? Have you looked at the testing that people have done? It works, and in real situations too. Not just Magical Christmasland.
Best card in the deck? Mimic Vat, surprisingly. Did not lose a game when I hit that.
Worst card? Again, a surprise! Kuldotha phoenix! I was not able to recur one all night. They were always snagged, dayed, terminused or o-ringed.
Best creature? Silly question, wce, of course. That, on a Vat just did stupid things.
There were a bunch of TP decks there tonight. I'm sure Stony Silence will find it's way into SBs next week. Along with mass artifact kill.
i have to say, i definitely disagree about whipflare. whipflare is huge in a lot of matchups. whipflare is often a 2 for 1, if not more in our current standard environment. its important to be able to go turn 2 whipflare because of all of the aggressive starts people try to pull on you. whipflare is good against: accelleration in x/1 mana durdles (2 for 1 a part of their 'manabase' and cripple their plan), wiping zombies (before they get out of control with blood artists and whatnot), killing tokens, killing thalia for 3 mana, etc. etc. etc. dont get me wrong, in some matchups its complete trash, and basically 100% useless. but game 1, i think its fair to say you want to be prepared for aggro because that is what is rampant currently.
personally nearly every time im playing red, and not wanting to tap out for more important threats, im playing with 4 whipflare. i always hope to draw it in my opening 7.
its not the best later in the game, but your deck is ideally designed to start massively pulling its own weight by later in the game, doing absurd things with trading post and what not.
Here's a short report.
Game 1: 1-2 RG Aggro
All three games went essentially the same. I sat and dug with Ichor Wellspring and Post while he swelled with pressure and I swept him. It was a matter of who got there first. Swords posed a problem, which would have been circumvented if I had a sideboard.
Game 2: 2-1 New Player
Not much to say here. Only lost game one because I went too aggro against an army that I couldn't deal with.
Game 3: 2-1 GW Exalted Midrange
This is the kinds of decks we're designed to prey on. Dig and sweep, drop Phoenixes, have a nice day. The only minor issue I came across was a Sigarda that he dropped, but I circumvented that by digging a bit, ripping a Slagstorm off the top, and using two to get her out of the way.
Game 4: UW Delver 1-1-1
It's a pretty stock list with a decently competent pilot. Game one I manage to control the board decently well, Galvanic Blast on the Delvers, Whipflare on the spirits, Tumble Magnet and Restoration Angels, dig, dig, dig, Phoenix for the win. This game takes about half our time though, because I couldn't get to my business in time. Game 2 he brings in O-Rings and Surgical Extractions, which causes a bit of a headache for me because they drop a turn earlier than Post and I have no way to stop them for working, Phyrexia's Core being the only way, but I only had one of those, being unable to find more. A Resto Angel with a Runechanter's Pike makes easy work of me. Game 3 we have 9 minutes, and from slowing him down, we can't finish in time. We go to turns and draw.
I'm happy with how the deck worked. A couple observations:
- K-Phoenix is such a house all the time. It's not that difficult to get Metalcraft with this deck, and any given hate can be dealt by smart usage of Trading Post.
- This deck has A LOT of dig. On any given turn, I'm drawing 1-3 extra cards.
- Given that, there are times where all this deck can do is dig. It can take a very long time to get to business sometimes.
- You need to use Trading Post smartly. Always keep one untapped through your opponent's turn, and play reactively throughout it, then do your business at the end of your opponent's turn. This is a control deck; remember that.
I am curious to see a 4 color post deck.
I think we need to have a thread that isnt just mono red - as fun as this one is.
Currently Playing
UTron
Tahngarth, Talruum Hero
TRADE ME!!!
For those of you wanting to use spine of ish sah and wurmcoil splashing blue just for treasure mage you can thin out your 6 drops and run these which help stall aggro and can block SoWaP until you can drop wurmcoil.
your deck sounds more like a 4color control with trading post in it... what does trading post do in your deck?
Currently Playing
UTron
Tahngarth, Talruum Hero
TRADE ME!!!
02 Wurmcoil Engine
04 Kuldotha Phoenix
04 Solemn Simulacrum
Artifacts - 15
04 Ichor Wellspring
03 Trading Post
03 Pristine Talisman
02 Mimic Vat
02 Ratchet Bomb
01 Batterskull
04 Galvanic Blast
Sorcery - 08
04 Whipflare
02 Bonfire of the Damned
02 Red Sun's Zenith
Lands - 23
04 Glimmerpost
04 Hellion Crucible
01 Buried Ruin
01 Phyrexia's Core
13 Mountain
03 Smelt
03 Tumble Magnet
03 Phyrexian Metamorph
02 Surgical Extraction
02 Act of Aggression
01 Zealous Conscripts
I do agree with maybe a singleton spine of ish sah in sideboard.
I like your list though
Currently Playing
UTron
Tahngarth, Talruum Hero
TRADE ME!!!
i noticed you arent using mycosynth wellspring mainboard. in your testing, have you found this card not worth it? personally i feel like this type of strategy wants to have a land to play every turn, and mycosynth helps with this. that being said, it does cost 2 mana to play for pretty minimal gain, until you crack it with post. it very well could be that playing more lands is just as optimal, if not more optimal than playing with mycosynth.
whats everyones thoughts on mycosynth wellspring? the only thing i've solidified in my testing is that i dont want more than MAYBE 6 wellsprings total.