1. You have access to sweepers earlier in the game than other Trading Post decks. Whipflare can be done on Turn 2 and Slagstorm on Turn 3.
2. Galvanic Blast with Metalcraft is awesome. Not only is it strong removal, but you can fling at the opponent if need be.
3. You have an amazing late game. Trading Post gives you an amzaing card advantage engine and allows for you to grind out a game with Wurmcoils and Batterskulls without fear of removal. You should beat other control decks very easily thanks to this.
4. It's hilarious beating the opponent with a mono-red control deck. I mean, come on, it's mono-red control.
SoWaP. Sucks real bad when your sweeps can't affect these guys. MD Dismember is almost mandatory if you're willing to stick to MonoR. Otherwise, I'd probably go R/B and use a removal heavy deck.
Oftentimes I'd have lots of mana open, even after hard casting things like Wurmcoil Engine. Since your deck has lots and lots of spells, I was thinking that 2 MD Past in Flames could make a pretty good finisher.
Otherwise, this deck seems to have some more merit than I'd expect from a main R control deck.
Making some very minor changes. Precursor Golem in place of Kuldotha Phoenix to give insta-metalcraft. Tumble Magnets instead of Pristine Talismans to give the deck a means of dealing with SoWaP. Myr Battlesphere removed to make the deck 60 cards. Some Mycosynth Wellsprings to make sure we get enough mountains to play what we want. Hellion Crucible removed entirely.
Also tears Precursor Golem a new one... I actually really like Kuldotha Phoenix in this style of deck.
I would try to shoehorn in some Pristine Talisman, Bonfires (or that new Earthquake, if you're finding Bonfire to be too inconsistent) and Shrine of Burning Rage. It seems like your games will definitely go long, and Shrine is mono-red's best hope of winning a long game.
I'm not sold on Wurmcoil Engine. 4 Batterskull seems like enough. I see the synergy with Post/Core, but by that time you should be winning and not having to grind incremental advantage. Have you tried Inferno Titan or Zealous Conscripts in that slot?
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
The reason I was sticking with 4 Wurmcoil Engine was because there's literally nothing the opponent can do to stop Wurmcoils when I've got 4 Buried Ruins in the deck. Buried Ruin doesn't recur Inferno Titan or Zealous Conscripts. I did think about running Inferno Titan and Conscripts, though.
Kuldotha Phoenix would totally be house in this build.
Also, personally, if I were running a rogue deck such as this, i'd definitely put a worldfire or two in.
Methinks splash black with Heartless Summoning for turn 4 Wurmcoils, anti-creature control, cheaper more efficient Sad Robots (Solemn Simulacrum), etc.
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Magic player 1995-2006(ish), 2011-Present
Standard: GWSelesnya Aggro, GWBVoice of Servitude, R Stuffy Reckoning, UWBUnblockable Auras, UGDefenders of the Combo
Extended: G Cheat-a-Colossus Elves,BRU Infinite Heartless,R Infect, R 'Helldrazi' (Hellions/Eldrazi Tokens)
Legacy: R Goblinstorm, UR Artifacts, R Artifacts, BURWG Land Deck, etc.
Commander: BRWUGSliver Overlord, BR Tsabo Tavoc
I have been following this thread for a while and i really like the incorporation of Trading Post in here. I'm going to try running a version of the Black Post deck at a Standard tournament tomorrow, but this red version is looking pretty good, too.
I was thinking about running something like Kuldotha Forgemaster with Mindslaver for a total lockdown once you get to enough mana. It seems that with Trading Post you can keep recycling all your artifact creatures and eventually all your artifacts, so repeated Mindslavers could be possible.
Since the deck seems to draw a lot of cards off of things like Solemn Simulacrum and Ichor Wellspring I'd be tempted to avoid the additonal color splash and try running Semblance Anvil instead. You get all the benefits of Heartless Summoning without making your creatures weaker. In addition, you can play all of your non-creature artifacts for less, too.
I was just wondering also whether it would be OK to discuss other versions of this Trading Post deck in this thread or is it just limited to the red version?
My suggestion would be to make your own thread for the Black version.
Also, don't like the Semblance Anvil idea, but I do like the Kuldotha Forgemaster/Mindslaver idea. We'll see if I need that, however, after some testing. This has all been theorycraft so far. Paper testing begins later today.
A major question in my mind is why not add other colors. There's plenty of fixing so you could easily run stuff like Tezzeret, Treasure Mage, Frantic salvage or Remember the Fallen.
There's no real incentive to splash, honestly. I mean, what could I throw into the deck that I can't already get in red?
My issue with going the Tezz route, which IMO is one the few other viable ways of going about this, is the lack of early game sweepers. Being able to play Whipflare and Slagstorm earlier than Turn 4 is what made me go red in the first place.
It might be worth it to trade out one Pristine Talisman for another Solemn, if only because having two Solemns with a Post out means you get to ramp for 5 mana each turn and draw a card. That recursion by sacrificing the other is sweet. That gets you through your deck pretty fast and also leaves you with a profitable blocker.
Just a thought though. I really like the direction this deck is going, and I think I'm going to have to give it a try.
I'm still working on getting the cards together for this (my Inkmoths are currently being borrowed by a friend and I need to buy a second Betterskull), so the more people testing this in the meantime the happier I am.
OK, a brief bit of testing later: is Slagstorm better than Bonfire here? The joy of Whipflare is that it completely misses all the creatures we're running, but Slagstorm doesn't. Bonfire, on the other hand, while potentially more expensive, is again a one-sided wipe that also damages the opponent.
On the note of sweepers, I really, really like Magmaquake. Hitting walkers is huge.
I'm going to be trying a version of this that approximates your list, but runs 3 Kuldotha Forgemaster, 1 Wurmcoil Engine and 1 Mindslaver. I'll let you know how that goes, once I get my head around how the deck is supposed to play properly. It's difficult.
OK, a brief bit of testing later: is Slagstorm better than Bonfire here? The joy of Whipflare is that it completely misses all the creatures we're running, but Slagstorm doesn't. Bonfire, on the other hand, while potentially more expensive, is again a one-sided wipe that also damages the opponent.
On the note of sweepers, I really, really like Magmaquake. Hitting walkers is huge.
We're not concerned with hitting our own creatures for the most part since we can just recur them with Trading Post.
So I've noticed in the little testing that this deck has a very large capability just to do nothing. You can dig and recur and ramp and block and sweep as much as you'd like, but the deck may just end up doing absolutely nothing.
Maybe I'm playing it wrong, maybe the list I'm using is worse, but more often than not, I lose because of inertness.
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3 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Batterskull
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Ichor Wellspring
2 Magmaquake
4 Pristine Talisman
2 Slagstorm
3 Trading Post
2 Tumble Magnet
2 Whipflare
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Inkmoth Nexus
15 Mountain
3 Phyrexia's Core
Why run this?
1. You have access to sweepers earlier in the game than other Trading Post decks. Whipflare can be done on Turn 2 and Slagstorm on Turn 3.
2. Galvanic Blast with Metalcraft is awesome. Not only is it strong removal, but you can fling at the opponent if need be.
3. You have an amazing late game. Trading Post gives you an amzaing card advantage engine and allows for you to grind out a game with Wurmcoils and Batterskulls without fear of removal. You should beat other control decks very easily thanks to this.
4. It's hilarious beating the opponent with a mono-red control deck. I mean, come on, it's mono-red control.
Check out my expected lands table at:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Airj6A6lYAz_dG05T2JETnVTak1xQ0tqOHNSdEJLWVE&hl=en_US#gid=0
▲
▲ ▲
3 Batterskull
1 Nihil Spellbomb
4 Pristine Talisman
3 Sphere of the Suns
4 Trading Post
2 Tumble Magnet
Artifact Creatures
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Precursor Golem
3 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Wurmcoil Engine
Enchantments
2 Curse of Death's Hold
Sorceries
3 Black Sun's Zenith
4 Mutilate
20 Swamp
Lands
2 Buried Ruin
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Spellskite
1 Curse of Death's Hold
2 Go for the Throat
2 Karn Liberated
3 Duress
Check out my expected lands table at:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Airj6A6lYAz_dG05T2JETnVTak1xQ0tqOHNSdEJLWVE&hl=en_US#gid=0
SoWaP. Sucks real bad when your sweeps can't affect these guys. MD Dismember is almost mandatory if you're willing to stick to MonoR. Otherwise, I'd probably go R/B and use a removal heavy deck.
Oftentimes I'd have lots of mana open, even after hard casting things like Wurmcoil Engine. Since your deck has lots and lots of spells, I was thinking that 2 MD Past in Flames could make a pretty good finisher.
Otherwise, this deck seems to have some more merit than I'd expect from a main R control deck.
1 Precursor Golem
3 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Galvanic Blast
3 Ichor Wellspring
2 Mycosynth Wellspring
4 Slagstorm
3 Trading Post
3 Tumble Magnet
3 Whipflare
4 Inkmoth Nexus
14 Mountain
4 Phyrexia's Core
Check out my expected lands table at:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Airj6A6lYAz_dG05T2JETnVTak1xQ0tqOHNSdEJLWVE&hl=en_US#gid=0
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Also, another update. -1 Magnet and -1 Slagstorm for 2 Metamorph.
1 Precursor Golem
3 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Batterskull
4 Galvanic Blast
3 Ichor Wellspring
2 Mycosynth Wellspring
3 Slagstorm
3 Trading Post
2 Tumble Magnet
3 Whipflare
4 Inkmoth Nexus
14 Mountain
4 Phyrexia's Core
Check out my expected lands table at:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Airj6A6lYAz_dG05T2JETnVTak1xQ0tqOHNSdEJLWVE&hl=en_US#gid=0
Also tears Precursor Golem a new one... I actually really like Kuldotha Phoenix in this style of deck.
I would try to shoehorn in some Pristine Talisman, Bonfires (or that new Earthquake, if you're finding Bonfire to be too inconsistent) and Shrine of Burning Rage. It seems like your games will definitely go long, and Shrine is mono-red's best hope of winning a long game.
I'm not sold on Wurmcoil Engine. 4 Batterskull seems like enough. I see the synergy with Post/Core, but by that time you should be winning and not having to grind incremental advantage. Have you tried Inferno Titan or Zealous Conscripts in that slot?
Perhaps this is more to your liking?
3 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Batterskull
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Ichor Wellspring
2 Magmaquake
4 Pristine Talisman
2 Slagstorm
3 Trading Post
2 Tumble Magnet
2 Whipflare
4 Inkmoth Nexus
14 Mountain
4 Phyrexia's Core
I couldn't find room for Shrine or Conscripts, but I was able to find room for everything else.
EDIT:
Made a minor change and removed the 2 Infernos for 2 Wurmcoil Engines.
Main post updated.
Check out my expected lands table at:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Airj6A6lYAz_dG05T2JETnVTak1xQ0tqOHNSdEJLWVE&hl=en_US#gid=0
Also, personally, if I were running a rogue deck such as this, i'd definitely put a worldfire or two in.
Trades.
Decks
RWU Zedruu the Greathearted EDH RWU
Standard: GW Selesnya Aggro, GWB Voice of Servitude, R Stuffy Reckoning, UWB Unblockable Auras, UG Defenders of the Combo
Extended: G Cheat-a-Colossus Elves,BRU Infinite Heartless,R Infect, R 'Helldrazi' (Hellions/Eldrazi Tokens)
Legacy: R Goblinstorm, UR Artifacts, R Artifacts, BURWG Land Deck, etc.
Commander: BRWUGSliver Overlord, BR Tsabo Tavoc
Working on putting my decks here for testplaying: http://tappedout.net/users/drunk231/
I was thinking about running something like Kuldotha Forgemaster with Mindslaver for a total lockdown once you get to enough mana. It seems that with Trading Post you can keep recycling all your artifact creatures and eventually all your artifacts, so repeated Mindslavers could be possible.
Since the deck seems to draw a lot of cards off of things like Solemn Simulacrum and Ichor Wellspring I'd be tempted to avoid the additonal color splash and try running Semblance Anvil instead. You get all the benefits of Heartless Summoning without making your creatures weaker. In addition, you can play all of your non-creature artifacts for less, too.
I was just wondering also whether it would be OK to discuss other versions of this Trading Post deck in this thread or is it just limited to the red version?
Also, don't like the Semblance Anvil idea, but I do like the Kuldotha Forgemaster/Mindslaver idea. We'll see if I need that, however, after some testing. This has all been theorycraft so far. Paper testing begins later today.
Check out my expected lands table at:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Airj6A6lYAz_dG05T2JETnVTak1xQ0tqOHNSdEJLWVE&hl=en_US#gid=0
If you DO wanna go red y u no Geosurge?
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
edit: and to answer you about multiple colors - there were some intersting decks at SCGVegas including a UW Post and a Tezz Post
Currently Playing
UTron
Tahngarth, Talruum Hero
TRADE ME!!!
My issue with going the Tezz route, which IMO is one the few other viable ways of going about this, is the lack of early game sweepers. Being able to play Whipflare and Slagstorm earlier than Turn 4 is what made me go red in the first place.
Check out my expected lands table at:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Airj6A6lYAz_dG05T2JETnVTak1xQ0tqOHNSdEJLWVE&hl=en_US#gid=0
Just a thought though. I really like the direction this deck is going, and I think I'm going to have to give it a try.
Currently Working On: Jund Ramp (RTR Block)
GR My Blog RG (Std)
Check out my expected lands table at:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Airj6A6lYAz_dG05T2JETnVTak1xQ0tqOHNSdEJLWVE&hl=en_US#gid=0
On the note of sweepers, I really, really like Magmaquake. Hitting walkers is huge.
Currently Working On: Jund Ramp (RTR Block)
GR My Blog RG (Std)
We're not concerned with hitting our own creatures for the most part since we can just recur them with Trading Post.
EDIT:
We could try Ratchet Bomb in place of Slagstorm.
Check out my expected lands table at:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Airj6A6lYAz_dG05T2JETnVTak1xQ0tqOHNSdEJLWVE&hl=en_US#gid=0
Maybe I'm playing it wrong, maybe the list I'm using is worse, but more often than not, I lose because of inertness.