yes I have found that I am able to reliably bring back my phoenixes. I usually start bringing them back once it gets into the mid game. I posted some of my playtesting on page 16 if your interested.
yes I have found that I am able to reliably bring back my phoenixes. I usually start bringing them back once it gets into the mid game. I posted some of my playtesting on page 16 if your interested.
Awesome, thanks. I really want a use for the couple of shiney ones I have in my trades binder!
I have been playing a different version, i really like the necro ooze combo. it forces my opponent use a more removal than they like on various threats.
I have been playing a different version, i really like the necro ooze combo. it forces my opponent use a more removal than they like on various threats.
I've been thinking of this. Except not quite this.
My dredge deck is GU, but I'm thinking of adding drowned catacomb and woodland cemetery. This would allow me to sideboard win conditions so my opponent is playing against a 'new' deck. The only problem is they'll board in graveyard hate, which is useful against both decks.
It's nice because both decks use the same sort off shell.
I've been thinking of this. Except not quite this.
My dredge deck is GU, but I'm thinking of adding drowned catacomb and woodland cemetery. This would allow me to sideboard win conditions so my opponent is playing against a 'new' deck. The only problem is they'll board in graveyard hate, which is useful against both decks.
It's nice because both decks use the same sort off shell.
mental misstep takes care of almost all graveyard hate atm
extraction and nihil, the most used
I tried the ooze combo, but honestly I felt like it didn't come up often enough and diluted the deck too much. Milling and bashing just feels a lot more powerful than trying to get a three card combo that takes a turn to activate and can be chumped all day (unless you make it a four card combo...)
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don't play for the ooze combo just accept that it is there. generally all the parts of the ooze combo are good on their own in this deck, ie. sac outlet, mill effect, and making of dudes. ooze fits right in along with the splinterfright gets big enough on its own. generally speaking splinterfright, kessig, ooze or grimgrim are all must answer threats. also kessig plus grimgrim is amazing. make dudes, sac dudes, kill dudes.
I've been testing Mindshrieker as a 2-of lately and he's a boss. Worst case scenario I spend 1U to waste one of my opponents removal cards. Best case scenario I'm beating face with a 5/5+ flier (one game i got him to 11/11, taking out a Skaab Ruinator equipped with 2 swords, it cleared the field and I won next turn). I like him MUCH MUCH better than Merfolk Looter at the 2cc slot since a card in my graveyard is as useful as a card in my hand in my specific build. See my decklist 2-3 pages back; I swapped my 2 dream twists for the shriekers. I love a flashbackable T1 play but it just wasn't fast enough to compete in the current meta. I was using it only when I had nothing better to spend my mana on and if that was the case I was probably already losing anyway. DT is probably better for control-oriented decks whereas mine is more midrange/aggro (with a bit of removal).
TL;DR - Playtest mindshrieker. Its not right for every build and its kind of a luck dependent card (which tend to be pretty janky) but this card in particular breaks the norm.
I found the opposite. Mindshrieeker was nothing compared to what I wanted. That being said, If you can find room, play him with Vengeful pharaoh. Allows for removal and a 2 mana 6/6 flier.
don't play for the ooze combo just accept that it is there. generally all the parts of the ooze combo are good on their own in this deck, ie. sac outlet, mill effect, and making of dudes. ooze fits right in along with the splinterfright gets big enough on its own. generally speaking splinterfright, kessig, ooze or grimgrim are all must answer threats. also kessig plus grimgrim is amazing. make dudes, sac dudes, kill dudes.
I wasn't playing it for the combo, I was using the same logic as you. The problem is that Grimgrin was very unimoressive for me, and keeper is not that amazing - he's solid, but has no synergy with the deck outside of the combo. It just feels a lot more powerful when i focus it more: 8-12 slots is anything but irrelevant.
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I found the opposite. Mindshrieeker was nothing compared to what I wanted. That being said, If you can find room, play him with Vengeful pharaoh. Allows for removal and a 2 mana 6/6 flier.
I've never playtested him so maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about but I can't justify BBB in a 4-color deck. I feel like best case scenario he'd take out one creature (after I took the damage no less) and then be stuck in my hand. Id rather just play Ambush Viper. Even though hes one and done he's basically a green doom blade that happens to be recurrable with Sun titan.
Then again, I dont really have any discard outlets (I took out all my looters because unless I had them in my opening hand they werent nearly as fast as I needed them to be). Also my mill engine is sorcery speed (Armored Skaab, Mulch, Splinterfright). Well I guess splinterfright would work but the pharaoh's ability isn't optional. So if I couldnt get splinter out in time he would again be stuck in my hand.
I can see him being a boss in a UB zombie or BUG that ran zombie infestation or anything with looters/civilized scholar but its just too situational for me. Plus the fact that it happens after you take the damage only allows his ability to trigger 2-3 times max before youre dead anyway even if you can consistently discard him.
EDIT: ohhh it took me a while to understand what the 2nd part of your post meant, haha yay for comprehension. Still I dont know if he's worth running just in case he does get stuck in my hand. I might give him a quick playtest tonight but in my build (again, no discard outlets) I have a feeling he'd only be useful as a SB against lily decks. Otherwise I'd have to change up about 30% of my deck
I've never playtested him so maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about but I can't justify BBB in a 4-color deck. I feel like best case scenario he'd take out one creature (after I took the damage no less) and then be stuck in my hand. Id rather just play Ambush Viper. Even though hes one and done he's basically a green doom blade that happens to be recurrable with Sun titan.
Then again, I dont really have any discard outlets (I took out all my looters because unless I had them in my opening hand they werent nearly as fast as I needed them to be). Also my mill engine is sorcery speed (Armored Skaab, Mulch, Splinterfright). Well I guess splinterfright would work but the pharaoh's ability isn't optional. So if I couldnt get splinter out in time he would again be stuck in my hand.
I can see him being a boss in a UB zombie or BUG that ran zombie infestation or anything with looters/civilized scholar but its just too situational for me. Plus the fact that it happens after you take the damage only allows his ability to trigger 2-3 times max before youre dead anyway even if you can consistently discard him.
EDIT: ohhh it took me a while to understand what the 2nd part of your post meant, haha yay for comprehension. Still I dont know if he's worth running just in case he does get stuck in my hand. I might give him a quick playtest tonight but in my build (again, no discard outlets) I have a feeling he'd only be useful as a SB against lily decks. Otherwise I'd have to change up about 30% of my deck
My very basic deck that I posted a few pages back didn't have Pharoah because I couldn't find any, though I feel he would have helped a great deal.
Of live games I played at FNM, he would have helped me win 2 whole matches. I won the mirror match, though it came down to the last turn where he had 24 spiders, but I managed to pull off a mirrormad/lab maniac win.
The second match was RU control. We split the first two and timed out before the third.
The third match I lost to a Mirran Crusader with two Angelic Destiny on turn 5. Even one pharoah, stuck in my hand after would have killed it on turn 4. He only had 4 creatures in the deck, so it would have been a win because he didn't have any pieces of his sundial combo (The way he beat me the next game)
Last match, I got beat down by a mindshrieker with sword. I would have won next turn, except after attacking and getting through several times, he managed to hit me with a 9/9 shrieker, finally killing me.
Don't remember the other game.
I could be wrong but I believe the wording of Vengeful Pharaoh makes me think that, since it's not being targetted by Vengeful Pharaoh, The pro-black is irrelevant. However I don't know the actual ruling so I could be totally wrong here.
We never said they were? Its not called dredge because its cards are similar to cards with the dredge mechanic, it just has a self-mill theme which is what dredge decks did. I mean, calling the new solar flare decks solar flare is just about as (in)accurate.
I agree that that does create tension within the deck, but I believe that it can be dealt with, especially with utility creatures (and snappy; I'll go over that when I get to a full computer [on my tablet atm] and talk about how my fnm went).
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here's my take on the deck, its not that different from most of the other decks, ive been messing around with the deck and have been trying to clean up some of the muck around the deck's edges. im running both skaab ruinator and splinterfreight, as i'd rather have a 4/4 trampler and a 5/6 flyer over a 7/7 trampler. consecrated sphinx is a boss in here, it fills the yard up so quickly, i havent lost a game where it's resolved yet. nephalia drownyard and armored skaab are my two favorite dredgers. dream twist just doesnt do anything for me, drownyard is a much better mana sink, and the skaab's body just shuts down so many creatures. i've also been trying out jace, memory adept and frost titan, but jace definitely underperformed when he was out, and ive used frosty in the last 5 decks ive built, so im giving him a break. this deck has the potential to become nuts, we'll just have to see what DKA brings us
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courtisans! compatriots! lend me your ears, we slayed this demagogue, dragged it to its knees. we cut all the sycophants, deafened their call, we gave back the willing to better us all. we will not go quiet, we will not be restrained, we will not be slaves to an impotent regime. mark this in remembrance, the turning of tides. our nascent republic, born of his demise.
I'm sad to say it because I love the concept and traded for the cards to have a try. I tried 2 UGB versions: a consistent version and a more "tolboxy" one. All I have to say is that the decks combines to many major flaws to be considered nearly competitive.
Too many slots must be devoted to utility cards having little impact on the board (basically self-mill garbage) in order to function. As a consequence:
- no room for tools to protect our threats
- no room for tools to deal with opponents threats, no way to stabilize
- need time to get relevant Boneyard Wurms or Fright early, cannot be aggro
- no way to recur our threats (yes, this isn't dredge...)
- random self-mill
- too vulnerable to spot removals, mass removal, counter, no need to mention graveyard hate.
+ that's fun, when you play in a non-competitive context.
I find that its a mid-range deck.
My build routinely gets in for 20-60 damage on turn 6. And never swings in before turn 4. If I can make it to turn 6, its good game unless the opponent has an answer. If they are playing aggro then I lose. If they are playing control then its basically a, can they have answers for the next 3-5 turns? If yes, then I lose.
I've found that
A: planeswalkers have no place in this deck
B: sever the bloodlines is good
C: ambush viper is awesome in this deck
D: green is essential. Mulch is both amazing mill and an amazing mana fixer. I run wubg dredge with no problems.
im not sure if anyone's posted anything like this on the thread yet or not, but i had another thread and it got frozen. before then though, there were a few comments that were trying to help me.
I know its slow, but there seems to be some good control in it and most of all, its FUN! i know, i know, t2's not supposed to be ~fun~ but dammit i want a fun game, where i might just happen to win most of the time lol.
thoughts? comments? gtfo's? hopefully im in the right thread now and this post wont get frozen.
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yes I have found that I am able to reliably bring back my phoenixes. I usually start bringing them back once it gets into the mid game. I posted some of my playtesting on page 16 if your interested.
Awesome, thanks. I really want a use for the couple of shiney ones I have in my trades binder!
WRGBCombo MillWRGB
???
Modern:
UUWWErayo AffinityWWUU
WWGUEnchantress ControlUGWW
EDH:
GGBBGlissa MultiplayerBBGG
RRRRKazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs Land DestructionRRRR
4 Splinterfright
3 Kessig Cagebreakers
4 Mindshrieker
4 Necrotic ooze
3 Bloodline keeper
3 Grimgrim, Corpse-born
4 Mulch
4 Forbidden Alchemy
3 Mana Leak
2 Garruk Relentless
2 Dismember
2 Doom Blade
3 Island
3 Forest
3 Swamp
4 Woodland Cemetery
3 Hinterland Harbor
3 Darkslick Shores
1 Drowned Catacomb
2 Nephalia Drownyard
I have been playing a different version, i really like the necro ooze combo. it forces my opponent use a more removal than they like on various threats.
I've been thinking of this. Except not quite this.
My dredge deck is GU, but I'm thinking of adding drowned catacomb and woodland cemetery. This would allow me to sideboard win conditions so my opponent is playing against a 'new' deck. The only problem is they'll board in graveyard hate, which is useful against both decks.
It's nice because both decks use the same sort off shell.
mental misstep takes care of almost all graveyard hate atm
extraction and nihil, the most used
Currently working on: BUGSelf-Mill
TL;DR - Playtest mindshrieker. Its not right for every build and its kind of a luck dependent card (which tend to be pretty janky) but this card in particular breaks the norm.
.
I wasn't playing it for the combo, I was using the same logic as you. The problem is that Grimgrin was very unimoressive for me, and keeper is not that amazing - he's solid, but has no synergy with the deck outside of the combo. It just feels a lot more powerful when i focus it more: 8-12 slots is anything but irrelevant.
Currently working on: BUGSelf-Mill
I've never playtested him so maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about but I can't justify BBB in a 4-color deck. I feel like best case scenario he'd take out one creature (after I took the damage no less) and then be stuck in my hand. Id rather just play Ambush Viper. Even though hes one and done he's basically a green doom blade that happens to be recurrable with Sun titan.
Then again, I dont really have any discard outlets (I took out all my looters because unless I had them in my opening hand they werent nearly as fast as I needed them to be). Also my mill engine is sorcery speed (Armored Skaab, Mulch, Splinterfright). Well I guess splinterfright would work but the pharaoh's ability isn't optional. So if I couldnt get splinter out in time he would again be stuck in my hand.
I can see him being a boss in a UB zombie or BUG that ran zombie infestation or anything with looters/civilized scholar but its just too situational for me. Plus the fact that it happens after you take the damage only allows his ability to trigger 2-3 times max before youre dead anyway even if you can consistently discard him.
EDIT: ohhh it took me a while to understand what the 2nd part of your post meant, haha yay for comprehension. Still I dont know if he's worth running just in case he does get stuck in my hand. I might give him a quick playtest tonight but in my build (again, no discard outlets) I have a feeling he'd only be useful as a SB against lily decks. Otherwise I'd have to change up about 30% of my deck
.
My very basic deck that I posted a few pages back didn't have Pharoah because I couldn't find any, though I feel he would have helped a great deal.
Of live games I played at FNM, he would have helped me win 2 whole matches. I won the mirror match, though it came down to the last turn where he had 24 spiders, but I managed to pull off a mirrormad/lab maniac win.
The second match was RU control. We split the first two and timed out before the third.
The third match I lost to a Mirran Crusader with two Angelic Destiny on turn 5. Even one pharoah, stuck in my hand after would have killed it on turn 4. He only had 4 creatures in the deck, so it would have been a win because he didn't have any pieces of his sundial combo (The way he beat me the next game)
Last match, I got beat down by a mindshrieker with sword. I would have won next turn, except after attacking and getting through several times, he managed to hit me with a 9/9 shrieker, finally killing me.
Don't remember the other game.
Lol, true that. Looks like I was screwed that game anyways.
Only the pro-green affected me at the time, so I didn't remember the pro-black.
I agree that that does create tension within the deck, but I believe that it can be dealt with, especially with utility creatures (and snappy; I'll go over that when I get to a full computer [on my tablet atm] and talk about how my fnm went).
Currently working on: BUGSelf-Mill
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
1 Nephalia Drownyard
6 Forest
3 Island
1 Swamp
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Viridian Emissary
3 Merfolk Looter
4 Boneyard Wurm
4 Splinterfright
2 Gravedigger
2 Acidic Slime
4 Mulch
1 Gnaw to the Bone
3 Forbidden Alchemy
2 Sever the Bloodline
1 Bonehoard
2 Spider Spawning
3 Naturalize
2 Gnaw to the Bone
3 Dismember
4 Flashfreeze
3 Bramble Crush
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
Ooze - Mirror Mad Phantasm - Unburial Rites - Labratory Maniac?
I don't see the "combo" here.
You need a think twice too to make sure you can go off that turn.
I tried it with Phantasmal Image instead of Ooze.
The combo is fun, but is totally not competetive.
WRGBCombo MillWRGB
???
Modern:
UUWWErayo AffinityWWUU
WWGUEnchantress ControlUGWW
EDH:
GGBBGlissa MultiplayerBBGG
RRRRKazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs Land DestructionRRRR
3x Ambush Viper
4x Armored Skaab
4x Birds of Paradise
1x Consecrated Sphinx
2x Kessig Cagebreakers
2x Skaab Ruinator
2x Solemn Simulacrum
3x Splinterfright
SPELLS
1x Doom Blade
2x Drowned Catacomb
4x Forbidden Alchemy
4x Mana Leak
4x Mulch
2x Sever the Bloodline
6x Forest
4x Hinterland Harbor
7x Island
2x Nephalia Drownyard
1x Swamp
2x Woodland Cemetery
3x Beast Within
2x Gnaw to the Bone
1x Laboratory Maniac
3x Mental Misstep
2x Negate
2x Postmortem Lunge
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Wurmcoil Engine
here's my take on the deck, its not that different from most of the other decks, ive been messing around with the deck and have been trying to clean up some of the muck around the deck's edges. im running both skaab ruinator and splinterfreight, as i'd rather have a 4/4 trampler and a 5/6 flyer over a 7/7 trampler. consecrated sphinx is a boss in here, it fills the yard up so quickly, i havent lost a game where it's resolved yet. nephalia drownyard and armored skaab are my two favorite dredgers. dream twist just doesnt do anything for me, drownyard is a much better mana sink, and the skaab's body just shuts down so many creatures. i've also been trying out jace, memory adept and frost titan, but jace definitely underperformed when he was out, and ive used frosty in the last 5 decks ive built, so im giving him a break. this deck has the potential to become nuts, we'll just have to see what DKA brings us
W death + taxes W
4 Viridian Emissary
4 Armored Skaab
4 Boneyard Wurm
4 Splinterfright
2 Acidic Slime
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Forbidden Alchemy
2 Dismember
2 Bonehoard
I'm most likely gonna run something close to this for FNM.(Plus lands obv)
I think it might be a little creature light though.
Any suggestions would be super. After adding land I should have about 2-4 spots leftover.
Cube 360 cards, unpowered.
Modern:
URStormUR
Block
RWHumansRW
URGStalkerURG
I find that its a mid-range deck.
My build routinely gets in for 20-60 damage on turn 6. And never swings in before turn 4. If I can make it to turn 6, its good game unless the opponent has an answer. If they are playing aggro then I lose. If they are playing control then its basically a, can they have answers for the next 3-5 turns? If yes, then I lose.
Still, lots of fun.
WRGBCombo MillWRGB
???
Modern:
UUWWErayo AffinityWWUU
WWGUEnchantress ControlUGWW
EDH:
GGBBGlissa MultiplayerBBGG
RRRRKazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs Land DestructionRRRR
A: planeswalkers have no place in this deck
B: sever the bloodlines is good
C: ambush viper is awesome in this deck
D: green is essential. Mulch is both amazing mill and an amazing mana fixer. I run wubg dredge with no problems.
I call it "Wait, your milling who?"
4 Armored Skaab
4 Deranged Assistant
4 Laboratory Maniac
2 Mirror-Mad Phantasm
3 Phantasmal Image
4 Dream Twist
3 Gitaxian Probe
2 Back from the Brink
3 Curse of the Bloody Tome
3 Jace's Erasure
3 Psychic Barrier
3 Mana Leak
3 Ponder Planeswalkers
1 Jace, Memory Adept
18 Island
I know its slow, but there seems to be some good control in it and most of all, its FUN! i know, i know, t2's not supposed to be ~fun~ but dammit i want a fun game, where i might just happen to win most of the time lol.
thoughts? comments? gtfo's? hopefully im in the right thread now and this post wont get frozen.