There was a few problems I had with this deck... it lost to Flyers, essentially. Wurm was garbage (no evasion = very hard to race with when it can just be chumped until it's removed). Mana Leak was useless when milled... Splinterfright wasn't nearly as good when nine times out of ten you'd be happier casting a Ruinator from your yard as a proper finisher etc.
So I took a look at adding a third color... Sun Titan seems really good, flashback cost on Rites seems super good... after a bunch of tweaking, I wound up with this list:
Sideboard is a bit of a mess and is being changed a lot as I try out new ideas...
So at first glance it might seem that I'm running too few land, but with a full 4 BoP, Mulch, and Looter, I don't often have issues at all with hitting land drops (if anything, I'm looting away land off the top)... also, with looters and mill in here, most times my 5 and up drops aren't sitting in my hand, they're in my yard being reanimated...
It runs pretty smooth... I originally ran more duals, but found I really needed more basics so that I didn't need to worry about the manabase being too slow. I'm happy with where it's at, now it's just a matter of tweaking the finishers to my liking and adjusting the curve post-board as I see fit.
Interesting, I also was considering Swiftfoot Boots for the Cagebreakers and Splinterfrights. How are they working out? And Ambush Viper or Phantasmal Bears...tough choice. The Viper is a really nice "Hey! Surprise!!" card, tempting. I love the Looter but not sold in it so far in this deck, I think I'll stick with the Dream Twists in the main deck for now.
I think my manabase may need some work but I agree that basic lands work better than duals in this deck.
Scrappy - Given that you are, like me, splashing white why not have some Nevermores in the SB?
Yeah, talked about this a bit previously. Boots are very good in this build, as you can recur them with Sun Titan if you mill them (it's actually almost preferable that way as your opponents can't O Ring them ahead of time)... So definitely solid. They make Cagebreakers an out of nowhere win con too.
I had Nevermore and Probes in my board initially, and wound up cutting them since I didn't like running things that I might mill into my yard that weren't creatures and didn't have flashback... they're the kinds of cards that you want to play early, so relying on Sun Titan'ing them back into play isn't really the best route to go.
If it weren't for Sun Titan being in the deck, I would seriously consider cutting the two Ruinators for something else, but as it stands, getting a Ruinator back for free is the stone cold stone colds - that an and even casting an early game Ruinator with Boots it out is kinda redonk haha.
Oh, and Ambush Viper over Bears, no question about it. Removal trumps fragile 2/2 for 1 any old day of the week.
As for the Looters.... you have to remember one of their most important functions.... they DRAW YOU A CARD haha! Seriously, don't underestimate that. Even if it's pulling you through lands off the top, that's effectively putting yourself waaaaaay ahead and saving your ass by improving your draws. Huge advantage there. Dream Twist as a 2-of in the main is solid tho, for sure... not sure if I'd run more than that.
Another reason why drawing cards instead of milling cards is relevant: Against control decks running counters, they effectively either have to counter or remove the creature you cast from your hand, and THEN deal with you reanimating it... where as if you mill, they just have to counter the reanimation spell. Big difference there, one generates far more card advantage for you than the other. So Looters (and card draw, in general) is better than just straight mill effects.
Killing Looters early really isn't a bad idea against this deck, honestly, as they can fix hands like crazy and flat out win games if they go unchecked... But yes, it's satisfying to know that your Titan is probably safe etc.
Ruinators are just a very good threat overall... The fact that you may not be tempted to cast them in favor of growing your Splinterfrights doesn't even matter that much... It's fun to just give your opponents somehing to sweat over haha.
Honestly Guys, My Ruinator stays in the graveyard unless I can recur it or I feel like win more with unburial rites. That or emergency says I need to hard cast him. Otherwise, he's just like an aligator, lurking beneath my graveyard, making the opponent nervous. On a side note, I left my swiftfoot boots for Zombie Infestation. I'm not sure I like it though :/ I mean i almost never have the cards in hand to discard til late game, where it really shines, but boots shine there too.
Ok, I've been testing an experimental 4-color build and so far its been insane. I've had some lucky draws in terms of getting the right color lands but so far its got about a 70% win rate online. It folds to cemetery-exiling effects so I need to work on a sideboard but even without one I went 2-1 against a UB zombie/control deck. I haven't faced anyone playing nihil spellbomb yet but I'm interested to see if I could use milling my opponent (as opposed to myself) as a back up plan.
It really does suck when I mill the Mulches but its just too damn good to take out. Too bad I don't really have the room for any Snapcaster Mages because it would have amazing synergy with Sun Titan. Merfolk Looter is just too valuable at the 2cc slot. Anytime I got him out and he wasn't removed, I got to see an extra card per turn plus it pumped up my Splinters and Cagebreakers.
Whats funny is that the Kessig Cagrebreakers are usually the prime target for removal (at least in my tests so far), little do my opponents realize I'm usually ready to slap down a Titan next turn. And if I can't, odds are I have a Splinterfright slowly getting out of control (like 15/15 trample out of control). Dream Twist can literally save games for me but its more of a backup card so I can't justify putting in more than 3.
This deck is so much fun because triggers are constantly chaining. I love casting Unburial Rites for 3 into Sun Titan into an Armored Skaab on turn 4.
This list contains the tried-and-true Solar Flare trick of reanimating a Titan into Image after Image after Image into Boots into swing, but without the usual slow setup that Solar Flare decks fall prone to. With all the color fixing and ramp, it's possible to have a Titan as early as turn three, but several often appear out of nowhere around turn six.
I've found that Mirror-Mad Phantasm really pulls his weight in this deck, as he's an evasive beater that can single-handedly dump the Titan toolbox into your yard. The combination of this guy, Titan, and Splinterfright coming at your opponent makes for some quick games indeed.
Thoughts?
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April is the cruelest month, breeding
Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
Dull roots with spring rain.
There was a few problems I had with this deck... it lost to Flyers, essentially. Wurm was garbage (no evasion = very hard to race with when it can just be chumped until it's removed). Mana Leak was useless when milled... Splinterfright wasn't nearly as good when nine times out of ten you'd be happier casting a Ruinator from your yard as a proper finisher etc.
So I took a look at adding a third color... Sun Titan seems really good, flashback cost on Rites seems super good... after a bunch of tweaking, I wound up with this list:
Sideboard is a bit of a mess and is being changed a lot as I try out new ideas...
So at first glance it might seem that I'm running too few land, but with a full 4 BoP, Mulch, and Looter, I don't often have issues at all with hitting land drops (if anything, I'm looting away land off the top)... also, with looters and mill in here, most times my 5 and up drops aren't sitting in my hand, they're in my yard being reanimated...
It runs pretty smooth... I originally ran more duals, but found I really needed more basics so that I didn't need to worry about the manabase being too slow. I'm happy with where it's at, now it's just a matter of tweaking the finishers to my liking and adjusting the curve post-board as I see fit.
Whats funny snappy is I started off with a deck just like you had. I found it worked well enough but was missing some stuff to really keep it competitive. I saw your 4 color discussion and thought you were crazy at first but honestly we only need a touch of white and black, enough that it is really easy to splash. My new deck is this.
The mana base looks Janky, and I will be honest I may be off in a few numbers as I am doing this from memory, but I swear I had no problem with it during the test games I was running. You have 15 lands that come down turn one untapped, and only 6 lands that can come down after turn 3 tapped, which isn't to bad.
Some differences from your list Scrappy are the vengeful pharaohs. Honestly these guys are pretty amazing. Ya you will rarely if ever hardcast them, but that isn't the point. They can really give a lot of control decks pause to attack, since they don't really have the creatures to risk loosing. Even against aggro like WW and RDW it can give them pause, as they will trade 1-3 damage for a lost creature. I also only run 2 sun titans as he is in my opinion more of a win more kind of condition. It is useful to have though as it will give you another threat to bring back, and having one in your graveyard makes opponents nervous, but you can win plenty of games with him.
I also hated the idea of the swiftfoot boots for the longest time, that is until I tried them out, and they are easily the MVP of the deck. Either bringing back a sun titan or Kessig cagebreaker, or hardcasting either of them and equipping and swinging is enough to have you win the game. Speaking of cagebreakers I have 3 because honestly they are also an allstar. Early game pressure to late game win in a swing, and like I said them with boots is sick, if your opponent doesn't have an instant removal spell at that point you will probably win.
I don't really have a sideboard yet, still working on that part. While I don't know if a deck like this will ever win a PTQ I am sure it could easily win me a FNM, not to mention it is fun as hell.
Whats funny snappy is I started off with a deck just like you had. I found it worked well enough but was missing some stuff to really keep it competitive. I saw your 4 color discussion and thought you were crazy at first but honestly we only need a touch of white and black, enough that it is really easy to splash. My new deck is this.
The mana base looks Janky, and I will be honest I may be off in a few numbers as I am doing this from memory, but I swear I had no problem with it during the test games I was running. You have 15 lands that come down turn one untapped, and only 6 lands that can come down after turn 3 tapped, which isn't to bad.
Some differences from your list Scrappy are the vengeful pharaohs. Honestly these guys are pretty amazing. Ya you will rarely if ever hardcast them, but that isn't the point. They can really give a lot of control decks pause to attack, since they don't really have the creatures to risk loosing. Even against aggro like WW and RDW it can give them pause, as they will trade 1-3 damage for a lost creature. I also only run 2 sun titans as he is in my opinion more of a win more kind of condition. It is useful to have though as it will give you another threat to bring back, and having one in your graveyard makes opponents nervous, but you can win plenty of games with him.
I also hated the idea of the swiftfoot boots for the longest time, that is until I tried them out, and they are easily the MVP of the deck. Either bringing back a sun titan or Kessig cagebreaker, or hardcasting either of them and equipping and swinging is enough to have you win the game. Speaking of cagebreakers I have 3 because honestly they are also an allstar. Early game pressure to late game win in a swing, and like I said them with boots is sick, if your opponent doesn't have an instant removal spell at that point you will probably win.
I don't really have a sideboard yet, still working on that part. While I don't know if a deck like this will ever win a PTQ I am sure it could easily win me a FNM, not to mention it is fun as hell.
Interesting list, especially the pharaoh as you mentioned. Do you have any ways to send him back to the yard from your hand if you dont have a looter out? I've never tested him because the BBB seems outright impossible in a 4 color deck, but as you said hardcasting him isn't really the point.
I'm not sure what kind of results you've had testing but I would HIGHLY recommend 4x Unburial Rites. You can always side it out against someone running 12x counterspells or something to that effect. It literally wins games all by itself though and it can really push a stalemate in your favor especially with Sun Titan.
Interesting list, especially the pharaoh as you mentioned. Do you have any ways to send him back to the yard from your hand if you dont have a looter out? I've never tested him because the BBB seems outright impossible in a 4 color deck, but as you said hardcasting him isn't really the point.
I'm not sure what kind of results you've had testing but I would HIGHLY recommend 4x Unburial Rites. You can always side it out against someone running 12x counterspells or something to that effect. It literally wins games all by itself though and it can really push a stalemate in your favor especially with Sun Titan.
I haven't had an issue with a stuck pharaoh in hand yet. Honestly I don't think he has ever hit my hand between dream twist and forbidden alchemy. Not to mention splinterfrights milling. I had really good success so far. Most of my games I mill down to within 20 cards of my deck, so I have had plenty of options for grabbing and using those unburial rites. Granted I have done maybe 6 games total, so by no means am I an expert. I will give it a try sometime.
Ater spending quite a bit of time on paper with this, I think I have a cool idea. This is the Skeleton of an Esper colored build I've been working on (you'll notice I'm a big fan of those colors).
Yes, yes, this is a lot like a Solar Flare deck. And maybe it is, if not simply because of the Sun Titan Recursion. I like the idea of getting a Ruinator back for free without having to exile addition creatures.
I would like to take a moment to defend Deranged Assistant. He is an amazing self miller, and ramps for us at the same time. Helping us to both CAST Unburial Rites early, and to have something to get back. He may not work well, but I like the idea.
And if it turns out I need a Laboratory Maniac, then I'll find room. But I doubt I will.
EDIT: Added in Mental Misstep and an extra Elixir. Also, trying my hand at Mirror-Mad Phantasm. We'll see how it works.
Hey guys, I don't know if I've been getting bad draws or straight up misplaying but White-Weenie decks and UW Geist decks have been absolutely steamrolling me lately. Whenever I can't get to my Titans in time they just overwhelm me with an army or more flying damage than I can handle (see a few posts up for my decklist). I'm definitely gonna be mainboarding a few Gnaw to the Bones but that alone isn't enough. Plus, its complete junk against infect decks but I don't see enough of those in the current meta for that to be too much of an issue. That's what my sideboard is for. I'm tempted to also mainboard a few Day of Judgments or even Divine Reckoning (only because of flashback and it could potentially make a ridiculous splinterfright or cagebreaker swing). I don't wanna take too many creatures out though.
Anyway, I digress. Any specific ideas that could help me keep battle criers, honor the pure etc. in check?
Not a great answer, but I've been toying around with Prey Upon as targeted removal. It's a real unitasker, but as long as you have a beefy Splinterfright on the board, for one green (at sorcery speed no less ), you can nix whatever creature threat is bothering you.
Doesn't really help with hoards of flying 1/1 tokens. But I suppose Corrosive Gale would. Another unitasker though. Neither are great cards, but they're cheap and green.
As for those nasty weenie decks, I was thinking Curse of Death's Hold but the casting cost is holding me back. By the time I can cast it, I may well be dead
And it's not like you can only use his ability once. Let's say you use it (on yourself of course) and reveal a land. Use it again. This time you reveal an Unburial Rites. Ka-ching. As long as you have the mana for it, which I admit might be a stumbling block depending on what build you're using, Mindshrieker is a worthy addition.
Well, Ginolard, it looks like you're almost running the same list as me... Can I offer a piece of advice though? Just go all out and add two more Sun Titan's in place of two of your Adepts. You know you wanna.... And it makes the deck so much more consistent!
Talking about Curses and Norns, what about a Massacre Wurm? Perhaps even better with Postmortem Lunge, or could be more fodder for Ruinator?
Quick Aside: really miss the Wishes these days...
Oh and Chazball, you REALLY need to run Forbidden Alchemy. It's vital in this deck and gets you to those Titans much more quickly. Consider Ambush Viper too. I'm sold on them now. 1-1 removal plus it feeds into the SplinterFright/Cagebreakers combo AND it can come back via the Titan.
The thing I have noticed most about this deck from playing it in Forge is that the synergy is...fragile is the wrong word....but we simply cannot afford to have cards in the deck that don't, in some way, help with the deck's main aim. Almost every permanent should be recursible via the Titan (the exception being the Cagebreakers because they are just too good to leave out).
As for flying creatures, yeah, that's always going to be a problem (isn't it for everyone?). Not sure what we can about that yet other than board wipers like Divine Reckoning or DoJ. Levitation maybe? Hell, even Smallpox doesn't hurt us as much as it does our opponent. We have a lot of options for the SB but this deck is going to be beaten by certain archetypes every time, I don't think there's much we can do about it.
I playtested the vipers and I made room for a few of them but I really can't justify Forbidden Alchemy. Mulch achieves almost the same goal and its easier to cast in my deck given my specific mana base. The only thing I'd take out for it would be Armored Skaab or Dream Twist. In my build, I'd almost always prefer to mill 6 for 1UU than mill 3 + draw a card for 2U. And if the game lasts long enough for me to afford its flashback, I'm probably not in too good of a position anyway. Pretty much all the cards in my graveyard contribute to a virtual card advantage. As for the skaabs, i think it comes down to personal play style and the 4 toughness body has saved me more times than drawing a card could. Anyway, here's my most recent build.
The Day of Judgments are all-stars in the sideboard. Its great against weenie aggro decks. T4 I clear the board, then turn 5 I can cast Unburial Rites into Sun Titan into Phantasmal Images and/or ambush vipers. Other than that, my sideboard isn't developed at all. I pretty much put in staples that are good in theory and I haven't playtested with this particular deck much. Notice I left in the lab maniac combo pieces haha. I doubt I'll ever get that off but it could break stalemates in a mirror match, Titan aggro, or a mill deck.
I found this forum about a week ago and built a version of it. As my first standard deck, I think It's ok, but I'm looking to make it better.
Last night at FNM I went 1-2-1 in my matches.
As this is the first time I've really looked at it on paper, I'm sure I'll make changes, but this is what I used last night. My biggest problem was not milling fast enough. My main win con last night was Maniac.
That being said, I'm thinking of sideboarding into a different win con.
Not sure if I should replace the mana leaks or find a way to get another two. Also not sure what to add to SB. Mental misstep is to counter surgical extract and nihil spellbomb. Deck seems like it would auto lose to a well timed spellbomb or Surgical extraction though if you don't have the misstep or mana leak.
I'm yet to be convinced by the Maniac/Mirror-Mad combo. The combo is so easily broken by targeted removal (usually on the Maniac) that I can't see it being viable. However, drop Ponder for Forbidden Alchemy. Gets you a card AND mills you. Consider Jace, Memory Adept and or Jace's Erasure too.
Anyway, off to try SplinterDredge in Cockatrice again
My problem with dropping Ponder is it's one of my two first turn cards. In the 20 or so games I played yesterday, half seem to have started with Ponder. It's nice for setting up for turn 2 Mulch.
@Ginolard: Looters are definitely a card that's geared more towards the long game. If you'd rather focus on aggro, then maybe look at building more towards running a ramp package for your finishers instead.
Here is My current deck I wish to start Playtesting. I litterally only need a could Archivists and Nephalia Drownyard to build so most likly will have it up and running one monday night. Tell me what you think.
Here is my target so far.. I am still collectiing some of the rares and such and am looking for any advice... Once I get this I will test it then go from there.
Ok so I have a few questions to ask. Being a new Magic player I need to figure out a few of the basic rullings on a couple of cards: Reassembling Skeleton
Can I use the Skeletons abilitie while he is in the graveyard or do I need another Reassembiling skeleton in play to reanimate one from my graveyard? Vengeful Pharoah
Does this stop the damage I would take from said attacking creature or would I still take the damage?
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12x Forest
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Merfolk Looter
4x Boneyard Wurm
4x Ambush Viper
3x Aether Adept
4x Splinterfright
2x Skaab Ruinator
3x Mulch
4x Mana Leak
3x Forbidden Alchemy
There was a few problems I had with this deck... it lost to Flyers, essentially. Wurm was garbage (no evasion = very hard to race with when it can just be chumped until it's removed). Mana Leak was useless when milled... Splinterfright wasn't nearly as good when nine times out of ten you'd be happier casting a Ruinator from your yard as a proper finisher etc.
So I took a look at adding a third color... Sun Titan seems really good, flashback cost on Rites seems super good... after a bunch of tweaking, I wound up with this list:
8x Forest
5x Island
4x Glacial Fortress
3x Swamp
1x Sunpetal Grove
1x Hinterland Harbor
Creatures (25)
4x Bird of Paradise
4x Merfolk Looter
4x Ambush Viper
2x Armored Skaab
3x Splinterfright
2x Skaab Ruinator
2x Kessig Cagebreakers
1x Grimgin, Corpse-born
3x Sun Titan
4x Mulch
2x Swiftfoot Boots
3x Forbidden Alchemy
4x Unburial Rites
3x Wurmcoil Engine
3x Divine Reckoning
3x Gnaw to the Bone
1x Molten-Tail Masticore
3x Dream Twist
2x Memory's Journey
Sideboard is a bit of a mess and is being changed a lot as I try out new ideas...
So at first glance it might seem that I'm running too few land, but with a full 4 BoP, Mulch, and Looter, I don't often have issues at all with hitting land drops (if anything, I'm looting away land off the top)... also, with looters and mill in here, most times my 5 and up drops aren't sitting in my hand, they're in my yard being reanimated...
It runs pretty smooth... I originally ran more duals, but found I really needed more basics so that I didn't need to worry about the manabase being too slow. I'm happy with where it's at, now it's just a matter of tweaking the finishers to my liking and adjusting the curve post-board as I see fit.
Yeah, talked about this a bit previously. Boots are very good in this build, as you can recur them with Sun Titan if you mill them (it's actually almost preferable that way as your opponents can't O Ring them ahead of time)... So definitely solid. They make Cagebreakers an out of nowhere win con too.
I had Nevermore and Probes in my board initially, and wound up cutting them since I didn't like running things that I might mill into my yard that weren't creatures and didn't have flashback... they're the kinds of cards that you want to play early, so relying on Sun Titan'ing them back into play isn't really the best route to go.
If it weren't for Sun Titan being in the deck, I would seriously consider cutting the two Ruinators for something else, but as it stands, getting a Ruinator back for free is the stone cold stone colds - that an and even casting an early game Ruinator with Boots it out is kinda redonk haha.
Oh, and Ambush Viper over Bears, no question about it. Removal trumps fragile 2/2 for 1 any old day of the week.
As for the Looters.... you have to remember one of their most important functions.... they DRAW YOU A CARD haha! Seriously, don't underestimate that. Even if it's pulling you through lands off the top, that's effectively putting yourself waaaaaay ahead and saving your ass by improving your draws. Huge advantage there. Dream Twist as a 2-of in the main is solid tho, for sure... not sure if I'd run more than that.
Another reason why drawing cards instead of milling cards is relevant: Against control decks running counters, they effectively either have to counter or remove the creature you cast from your hand, and THEN deal with you reanimating it... where as if you mill, they just have to counter the reanimation spell. Big difference there, one generates far more card advantage for you than the other. So Looters (and card draw, in general) is better than just straight mill effects.
Ruinators are just a very good threat overall... The fact that you may not be tempted to cast them in favor of growing your Splinterfrights doesn't even matter that much... It's fun to just give your opponents somehing to sweat over haha.
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Splinterfright
3x Kessig Cagebreakers
4x Armored Skaab
3x Sun Titan
4x Merfolk Looter
3x Primeval Titan
4x Unburial Rites
4x Mulch
3x Dream Twist
Lands
3x Hinterland Harbor
3x Sunpetal Grove
1x Glacial Fortress
3x Island
5x Forest
3x Plains
2x Nephalia Drownyard
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Woodland Cemetery
1x Swamp
It really does suck when I mill the Mulches but its just too damn good to take out. Too bad I don't really have the room for any Snapcaster Mages because it would have amazing synergy with Sun Titan. Merfolk Looter is just too valuable at the 2cc slot. Anytime I got him out and he wasn't removed, I got to see an extra card per turn plus it pumped up my Splinters and Cagebreakers.
Whats funny is that the Kessig Cagrebreakers are usually the prime target for removal (at least in my tests so far), little do my opponents realize I'm usually ready to slap down a Titan next turn. And if I can't, odds are I have a Splinterfright slowly getting out of control (like 15/15 trample out of control). Dream Twist can literally save games for me but its more of a backup card so I can't justify putting in more than 3.
This deck is so much fun because triggers are constantly chaining. I love casting Unburial Rites for 3
.
5x Forest
3x Glacial Fortress
4x Hinterland Harbor
3x Island
1x Isolated Chapel
2x Plains
2x Swamp
1x Sunpetal Grove
3x Woodland Cemetery
2x Mirror-Mad Phantasm
3x Phantasmal Image
4x Birds of Paradise
3x Ambush Viper
3x Splinterfright
3x Sun Titan
1x Sheoldred, Whispering One
4x Forbidden Alchemy
3x Sphere of the Suns
2x Swiftfoot Boots
4x Unburial Rites
2x Day of Judgment
4x Memory's Journey
3x Skaab Ruinator
3x Doom Blade
3x Ratchet Bomb
This list contains the tried-and-true Solar Flare trick of reanimating a Titan into Image after Image after Image into Boots into swing, but without the usual slow setup that Solar Flare decks fall prone to. With all the color fixing and ramp, it's possible to have a Titan as early as turn three, but several often appear out of nowhere around turn six.
I've found that Mirror-Mad Phantasm really pulls his weight in this deck, as he's an evasive beater that can single-handedly dump the Titan toolbox into your yard. The combination of this guy, Titan, and Splinterfright coming at your opponent makes for some quick games indeed.
Thoughts?
Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
Dull roots with spring rain.
-TS Eliot, The Waste Land
Whats funny snappy is I started off with a deck just like you had. I found it worked well enough but was missing some stuff to really keep it competitive. I saw your 4 color discussion and thought you were crazy at first but honestly we only need a touch of white and black, enough that it is really easy to splash. My new deck is this.
5x Forest
4x Island
3x Darkslick Shores
3x Drowned Catacombs
3x Razorverge Thicket
3x Sunpetal Grove
1x Woodland Cemetary
4x Bird of Paradise
4x Merfolk Looter
4x Ambush Viper
2x Armored Skaab
4x Splinterfright
3x Kessig Cagebreakers
2x Vengeful Pharaoh
2x Sun Titan
2x Mulch
2x Swiftfoot Boots
4x Forbidden Alchemy
3x Unburial Rites
2x Dream Twist
The mana base looks Janky, and I will be honest I may be off in a few numbers as I am doing this from memory, but I swear I had no problem with it during the test games I was running. You have 15 lands that come down turn one untapped, and only 6 lands that can come down after turn 3 tapped, which isn't to bad.
Some differences from your list Scrappy are the vengeful pharaohs. Honestly these guys are pretty amazing. Ya you will rarely if ever hardcast them, but that isn't the point. They can really give a lot of control decks pause to attack, since they don't really have the creatures to risk loosing. Even against aggro like WW and RDW it can give them pause, as they will trade 1-3 damage for a lost creature. I also only run 2 sun titans as he is in my opinion more of a win more kind of condition. It is useful to have though as it will give you another threat to bring back, and having one in your graveyard makes opponents nervous, but you can win plenty of games with him.
I also hated the idea of the swiftfoot boots for the longest time, that is until I tried them out, and they are easily the MVP of the deck. Either bringing back a sun titan or Kessig cagebreaker, or hardcasting either of them and equipping and swinging is enough to have you win the game. Speaking of cagebreakers I have 3 because honestly they are also an allstar. Early game pressure to late game win in a swing, and like I said them with boots is sick, if your opponent doesn't have an instant removal spell at that point you will probably win.
I don't really have a sideboard yet, still working on that part. While I don't know if a deck like this will ever win a PTQ I am sure it could easily win me a FNM, not to mention it is fun as hell.
Interesting list, especially the pharaoh as you mentioned. Do you have any ways to send him back to the yard from your hand if you dont have a looter out? I've never tested him because the BBB seems outright impossible in a 4 color deck, but as you said hardcasting him isn't really the point.
I'm not sure what kind of results you've had testing but I would HIGHLY recommend 4x Unburial Rites. You can always side it out against someone running 12x counterspells or something to that effect. It literally wins games all by itself though and it can really push a stalemate in your favor especially with Sun Titan.
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I haven't had an issue with a stuck pharaoh in hand yet. Honestly I don't think he has ever hit my hand between dream twist and forbidden alchemy. Not to mention splinterfrights milling. I had really good success so far. Most of my games I mill down to within 20 cards of my deck, so I have had plenty of options for grabbing and using those unburial rites. Granted I have done maybe 6 games total, so by no means am I an expert. I will give it a try sometime.
4 Skaab Ruinator
4 Phantasmal Image
3 Deranged Assistant
3 Sun Titan
2 Mindshrieker
4 Memnite
1 Mirror-Mad Phantasm
//Spells: 19
4 Forbidden Alchemy
4 Dream Twist
2 Dissipate
4 Mana Leak
3 Unburial Rites
2 Go For the Throat
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Isolated Chapel
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Drowned Catacombs
4 Island
3 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Nevermore
3 Stony Silence
2 Go For the Throat
2 Elixir of Immortality
3 Flashfreeze
3 Mental Misstep
Yes, yes, this is a lot like a Solar Flare deck. And maybe it is, if not simply because of the Sun Titan Recursion. I like the idea of getting a Ruinator back for free without having to exile addition creatures.
I would like to take a moment to defend Deranged Assistant. He is an amazing self miller, and ramps for us at the same time. Helping us to both CAST Unburial Rites early, and to have something to get back. He may not work well, but I like the idea.
And if it turns out I need a Laboratory Maniac, then I'll find room. But I doubt I will.
EDIT: Added in Mental Misstep and an extra Elixir. Also, trying my hand at Mirror-Mad Phantasm. We'll see how it works.
My Attempt at Vintage
WUBRGAd Nausuem AffinityGRBUW
Anyway, I digress. Any specific ideas that could help me keep battle criers, honor the pure etc. in check?
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Doesn't really help with hoards of flying 1/1 tokens. But I suppose Corrosive Gale would. Another unitasker though. Neither are great cards, but they're cheap and green.
Rather than the curse, you could Unburial Rites Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite. And as long as she's in the GY she helps the Splinterfrights too.
With postmortem lunge you can mill your entire deck and win with a single kessig cagebreakers attack. All by only using 1 card.
I also played against this guy online who was maindecking gnaw to the bone, and I couldn't even get close to killing him.
I have not really tested this, but based on what I had tested right after rotation this seems like a decent starting point.
4 birds of paradise
4 Merfolk looter
4 Armored skaab
3 Splinterfright
3 Kessig cagebreakers
2 phantasmal image
2 llanowar elves
2 Snapcaster mage
4 dream twist
2 Gnaw to the bone
4 Postmortem lunge
4 Mulch
4 hinterland harbor
9 forest
9 island
Quick Aside: really miss the Wishes these days...
My Attempt at Vintage
WUBRGAd Nausuem AffinityGRBUW
I playtested the vipers and I made room for a few of them but I really can't justify Forbidden Alchemy. Mulch achieves almost the same goal and its easier to cast in my deck given my specific mana base. The only thing I'd take out for it would be Armored Skaab or Dream Twist. In my build, I'd almost always prefer to mill 6 for 1UU than mill 3 + draw a card for 2U. And if the game lasts long enough for me to afford its flashback, I'm probably not in too good of a position anyway. Pretty much all the cards in my graveyard contribute to a virtual card advantage. As for the skaabs, i think it comes down to personal play style and the 4 toughness body has saved me more times than drawing a card could. Anyway, here's my most recent build.
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Splinterfright
2x Kessig Cagebreakers
3x Armored Skaab
3x Sun Titan
3x Merfolk Looter
3x Phantasmal Image
2x Ambush Viper
Other Spells (12)
4x Unburial Rites
3x Mulch
3x Dream Twist
2x Gnaw to the Bone
3x Hinterland Harbor
3x Sunpetal Grove
1x Glacial Fortress
3x Island
5x Forest
3x Plains
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Woodland Cemetery
2x Swamp
4x Day of Judgment
2x Gnaw to the Bone
4x Beast Within
2x Ambush Viper
1x Laboratory Maniac
1x Think Twice
1x Memory's Journey
The Day of Judgments are all-stars in the sideboard. Its great against weenie aggro decks. T4 I clear the board, then turn 5 I can cast Unburial Rites into Sun Titan into Phantasmal Images and/or ambush vipers. Other than that, my sideboard isn't developed at all. I pretty much put in staples that are good in theory and I haven't playtested with this particular deck much. Notice I left in the lab maniac combo pieces haha. I doubt I'll ever get that off but it could break stalemates in a mirror match, Titan aggro, or a mill deck.
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Last night at FNM I went 1-2-1 in my matches.
3 Merfolk Looter
2 Mirror-Mad Phantasm
2 Laboratory Maniac
2 Jace's Archivist
4 Splinterfright
3 Mind Shrieker
3 Kessig Cagebreakers
1 Skaab Ruinator
2 Dream Twist
3 Memory's Journey
4 Mulch
3 Think Twice
3 Ponder
1 Gnaw to the Bone
2 Back from the Brink
8 Forest
10 Island
4 Hinterland Harbor
As this is the first time I've really looked at it on paper, I'm sure I'll make changes, but this is what I used last night. My biggest problem was not milling fast enough. My main win con last night was Maniac.
That being said, I'm thinking of sideboarding into a different win con.
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Postmortem Plunge
3 Diabolic Tutor
This would allow me to bring back Cagebreakers and finish the same turn.
Thoughts?
3x Darkslick Shores
7x Forest
3x Hinterland Harbor
3x Woodland Cemetary
6x Island
1x Swamp
1x Nephalia Drownyard
Creatures
4x Ambush Viper
3x Armored Skaab
2x Skaab Ruinator
4x Boneyard Wurm
4x Splinterfright
4x Merfolk Looter
2x Snapcaster Mage
2x Mirror-mad Phantasm
1x Spider Spawning
4x Forbidden Alchemy
2x Mana leak
3x Gnaw to the Bone
4x Mental Misstep
3x Ratchet Bomb
Not sure if I should replace the mana leaks or find a way to get another two. Also not sure what to add to SB. Mental misstep is to counter surgical extract and nihil spellbomb. Deck seems like it would auto lose to a well timed spellbomb or Surgical extraction though if you don't have the misstep or mana leak.
My problem with dropping Ponder is it's one of my two first turn cards. In the 20 or so games I played yesterday, half seem to have started with Ponder. It's nice for setting up for turn 2 Mulch.
Join the Poetry Running Contest!
4 Laboratory Maniac
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
4 Splinterfright
4 Merfolk Looter
3 Jace's Archivist
1 Kessig Cagebreakers
1 Mirror-Mad Phantasm
3 Necrotic Ooze
3 Mulch
3 Forbidden Alchemy
2 Dream Twist
4 Unburial Rites
Lands 24
5 Swamps
3 Plains
8 Forests
8 Islands
Creatures-22
4x Armored Skaab
3x Reassembling Skeleton
3x Deranged Assistan
3x Jace's Archivist
2x Skaab Ruinator
2x Vengeful Pharoah
1x Elesh Norn, Gradn Cenobite
1x Sun Titam
1x Sheoldred, Whispering One
1x Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
3x Doom Blade
2x Zombie Infestation
4x Forbidden Alchemy
2x Unburial Rights
4x Drowned Catacomb
4x Isolated Chapel
4x Glacial Fortress
2x Nephalia Drownyard
6x Island
4x Swamp
Cards I am considering to ADD:
3x Snapcasters
4x Mana leak
Some Kind of Equipment such as Swords or Runechanters's Pike
Here is my target so far.. I am still collectiing some of the rares and such and am looking for any advice... Once I get this I will test it then go from there.
Ok so I have a few questions to ask. Being a new Magic player I need to figure out a few of the basic rullings on a couple of cards:
Reassembling Skeleton
Can I use the Skeletons abilitie while he is in the graveyard or do I need another Reassembiling skeleton in play to reanimate one from my graveyard?
Vengeful Pharoah
Does this stop the damage I would take from said attacking creature or would I still take the damage?
EDH
BU LazavUB
GU Momir VigUG