The thread title says it all. Don't own any yet. Has this become a staple of the archetype or can you build a top tier RG deck without it? From the deck lists I've seen, this appears to have become a staple.
i'd say so. most decks right now are creature-based, and most are not big creatures. playing bonfire for 5(x=2) is a good deal already, as you may clean a lot of things and only in one side of the table, and if you miracle it in the right time it can just win some games.
its a staple. the card absolutely should be somewhere in your 75. whether you main deck it or keep in the sideboard depends on your local metagame though. the exact number that you run is also variable. 2-3 copies is typical, but as many as 4 is sometimes correct.
the card is a huge trump in aggro vs. aggro matches though. having access to it is game breaking.
its a staple. the card absolutely should be somewhere in your 75. whether you main deck it or keep in the sideboard depends on your local metagame though. the exact number that you run is also variable. 2-3 copies is typical, but as many as 4 is sometimes correct.
the card is a huge trump in aggro vs. aggro matches though. having access to it is game breaking.
That's kind of what I figured given the ridiculous price tag. Oh well.
That's kind of what I figured given the ridiculous price tag. Oh well.
Yeah I decided to by my set of VCliques instead. You know so i don't lose a ton of money in the end. Although it is the best sweeper I've seen. What other spell kills just your opponents side and not yours? And it is also super cheap on the mana.
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Bonfire is a very powerful 1 sided wrath that can turnaround the game. I'm using it as a 3 of in my deck and never looked back. It's worth every penny.
I know where you are coming from. I love red and don't own any Bonfire of the Damned. I just can't bring myself to pay for them. They are definitely necessary if you want to be competitive.
If its for an fnm I wouldn't feel bad recommending substituting the green miracle trample must block card revenge of the hunted, it has a very similar effect of blowing a game wide open it just has less versatility as there are situations where hardcasting bonfire with x=1 is a correct line
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Echoing what others have said, it's amazing vs. the current metagame. In the Naya mirror, usually the person who wins gets more Bonfires (or Mikaeus).
As a Delver player, Bonfire of the Damned makes it tough for me. They can kill Delvers and Geist of Saint Traft. When I play vs. Naya Pod with 4 Cavern of Souls, I usually side out 3-4 Mana Leak. Bonfire punishes me for doing so. Yesterday when I lost a game 1 to Naya, he Bonfire'd twice (no miracle). I can absolutely say that without both Bonfire, I would have raced his creatures and won.
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Echoing what others have said, it's amazing vs. the current metagame. In the Naya mirror, usually the person who wins gets more Bonfires (or Mikaeus).
As a Delver player, Bonfire of the Damned makes it tough for me. They can kill Delvers and Geist of Saint Traft. When I play vs. Naya Pod with 4 Cavern of Souls, I usually side out 3-4 Mana Leak. Bonfire punishes me for doing so. Yesterday when I lost a game 1 to Naya, he Bonfire'd twice (no miracle). I can absolutely say that without both Bonfire, I would have raced his creatures and won.
Yeap. It gets really bad when you're winning a race then they rip a bonfire off the top.
Bonfire is becoming a staple in all Red decks, in some quantity or another. It just offers so much value for its cost. The xxR mana cost is really deceiving; it's easy to imagine this card being unwiedly and expensive all the time, but the fact is that even a small Bonfire can be effective, and the ability to turn the card into a one-sided Wrath that also goes to the face more than makes for those times when you have a Bonfire idling in your hand.
This card also makes the value gained off of Borderland Ranger that much better, especially in multiples. It is a sweeper for creature base decks, game ending potential waiting to be unleashed.
This card is the really the only hope for R/G aggro when it plays Naya Pod and Pod starts building its massive army of golem tokens, angels, and whatnot.... We can't match you creature for creature so really our only hope is to rip a Bonfire....
Bonfire is like the biggest horseshoe ever thrown into this game. I've witnessed huge blowouts just from someone topdecking this thing late game, and its pretty obvious the damned part of the name is your opponent cursing your luck.
I have never played RG aggro really, but bonfire is definitely my favourite card in standard right now. It is just so good at SO many things.
I am testing a mono red deck with 3 copies (because I only own 3 and they are hella expensive), and I think the card single handedly is the reason the deck performs as well as it does........in testing at least
Bonfire is like the biggest horseshoe ever thrown into this game. I've witnessed huge blowouts just from someone topdecking this thing late game, and its pretty obvious the damned part of the name is your opponent cursing your luck.
Agreed, card is ridiculous, can't believe wizards printed something so stupid. That said, if you play red I can't imagine not playing it, I've lost more matches to Bonfire than pretty much anything else lately.
Agreed, card is ridiculous, can't believe wizards printed something so stupid. That said, if you play red I can't imagine not playing it, I've lost more matches to Bonfire than pretty much anything else lately.
So basically an aggro sligh build and this and it's pretty tough to lose?
Honestly I would disagree. In your typicall 20-21 land sligh deck, it is going to be a very awkward card outside of miracles. I think that bonfire is much better in a midrange deck with 24-25 land; you will at least be able to get value from the non-miracles, and the randomness of the card is less irritating when your plan is just to slowly push through damage while controlling the board.
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Honestly I would disagree. In your typicall 20-21 land sligh deck, it is going to be a very awkward card outside of miracles. I think that bonfire is much better in a midrange deck with 24-25 land; you will at least be able to get value from the non-miracles, and the randomness of the card is less irritating when your plan is just to slowly push through damage while controlling the board.
Except I wouldn't call RG Aggro, which is one of the top decks right now that plays Bonfire, a mid range deck. It may not be a sligh on the low end of the mana curve but it sure comes at you pretty fast.
I would call it midrange honestly; they typically have 22-24 land + 8-10 mana dorks. Thats a lot more mana than your typical sligh deck. An dhonestly Steve, I am not even sure what you're arguing about in my post. All I said was that bonfire works better in an aggro deck with more land, than a classical sligh deck. That is exactly what RG Aggro is.
I don't think it matters how we classify it; bonfire fits much better in RG Aggro than an actual sligh deck.
I would call it midrange honestly; they typically have 22-24 land + 8-10 mana dorks. Thats a lot more mana than your typical sligh deck.
I don't think it matters how we classify it; bonfire fits much better in RG Aggro than an actual sligh deck.
I still think Bonfire could work in a sligh deck if it had the proper support. 8 dorks with 24 land? Yeah, I get it, but how big a bonfire do we really need? If you're top decking, x=3 will pretty much clear the board. You can do that with 4 land. Okay, maybe you can't play a 20 land deck, but 22 land without dorks should be more than good enough.
The problem is, sligh right now doesn't have the support in the needed colors because, for one thing, mono red sucks. But you already know that.
But if we had Bonfire when Goblin Guide was standard legal, that card would have been in that deck in a heartbeat and that was a very fast red deck.
It's just the wrong card pool now. But with better support, it could work very well. Maybe after RTR we may actually have that option.
Agree in full. I think Bonfire is very limited in a deck with only 20-21 land, 22 is better, 24-25 is ideal without dorks from my testing; you're getting bigger miracles and the ability to cast for X=2 without the miracle.
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the card is a huge trump in aggro vs. aggro matches though. having access to it is game breaking.
That's kind of what I figured given the ridiculous price tag. Oh well.
Yeah I decided to by my set of VCliques instead. You know so i don't lose a ton of money in the end. Although it is the best sweeper I've seen. What other spell kills just your opponents side and not yours? And it is also super cheap on the mana.
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As a Delver player, Bonfire of the Damned makes it tough for me. They can kill Delvers and Geist of Saint Traft. When I play vs. Naya Pod with 4 Cavern of Souls, I usually side out 3-4 Mana Leak. Bonfire punishes me for doing so. Yesterday when I lost a game 1 to Naya, he Bonfire'd twice (no miracle). I can absolutely say that without both Bonfire, I would have raced his creatures and won.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Yeap. It gets really bad when you're winning a race then they rip a bonfire off the top.
This card also makes the value gained off of Borderland Ranger that much better, especially in multiples. It is a sweeper for creature base decks, game ending potential waiting to be unleashed.
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I am testing a mono red deck with 3 copies (because I only own 3 and they are hella expensive), and I think the card single handedly is the reason the deck performs as well as it does........in testing at least
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Agreed, card is ridiculous, can't believe wizards printed something so stupid. That said, if you play red I can't imagine not playing it, I've lost more matches to Bonfire than pretty much anything else lately.
So basically an aggro sligh build and this and it's pretty tough to lose?
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Except I wouldn't call RG Aggro, which is one of the top decks right now that plays Bonfire, a mid range deck. It may not be a sligh on the low end of the mana curve but it sure comes at you pretty fast.
I don't think it matters how we classify it; bonfire fits much better in RG Aggro than an actual sligh deck.
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I still think Bonfire could work in a sligh deck if it had the proper support. 8 dorks with 24 land? Yeah, I get it, but how big a bonfire do we really need? If you're top decking, x=3 will pretty much clear the board. You can do that with 4 land. Okay, maybe you can't play a 20 land deck, but 22 land without dorks should be more than good enough.
The problem is, sligh right now doesn't have the support in the needed colors because, for one thing, mono red sucks. But you already know that.
But if we had Bonfire when Goblin Guide was standard legal, that card would have been in that deck in a heartbeat and that was a very fast red deck.
It's just the wrong card pool now. But with better support, it could work very well. Maybe after RTR we may actually have that option.
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