Could just be that I've been up for 32 hours, but your card count seems off. Either you ran with a 61 card deck, or one of your cards is off count. I'm curious to the answer, as I feel that is a strong list, and don't know if 61 was intentional or a mistake, and what would get cut in the event of.
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@Kueson: Oops, you're right. The list is supposed to have one less forest. I only ran 60 cards in the deck, I just messed up when writing it in here. I'll edit my list so that it is correct. 20 lands worked perfectly for me. I never had to muligan, I only missed 1 land drop unintentionally all day, and I was rarely mana flooded.
RealIG how important in your matches was the extra damage/versatility of slag storm over whip flare?
Honestly, I didn't pay much attention to it. But Slagstorm gave me much more security in my matchups, gave me better outs, and didn't slow me down hardly. Often, I would Slagstorm, killing my birds and Lavamancers, but it would put enough creatures in my graveyard to play a 1 or 2 mana Ghoultree and buff my Splinterfright/Bonyard Wurm +2/+2. It was also important to have an effective answer against Mirran Crusader when Honor of the Pure was on the field. In addition, I was able to use the other ability of Slagstorm to kill a Karn (it was at 3 from exiling one of my guys), so I think that it was the right choice. One of the more obscure things that it helped me do was kill an undead Vorapede (6/5 after undying, Grim Lavamancer + Slagstorm took care of it).
I'm still very much torn on whether I like Hellrider of Hero of Oxid Ridge more at the 4 slot. They both offer different things, and truth be told, the 3 toughness on Hellrider is nice.
Then there's the Huntmaster, which I just can't not play. So there's 2 of him in there, too.
RealOG, is Boneyard Wurm really made that much better by the inclusion of Kessig Wolf Run? I just... it's almost irrational at this point, but I really dislike that card. I've reverted to Viridian Emissary in the 2 slot, especially since I'm not ramping as hard (with the dorks) as you are.
Speaking of the 2 slot, what are the thoughts on Torch Fiend? He's not quite Ancient Grudge, but he's a creature, and he has 2 power -- which is more and more relevant, as this list is fairly aggressive.
Lastly, I'm re-debating my inclusion of Forge Devils, because in my local meta I'm not sure I want to be killing off their 1-drops. That just leads to 1/1 flying Spirits. Freaking tokens. Enough to make me want to Glissa/Ratchet Bomb.
My main concern so far is whether 4 Mulch and 4 Faithless Looting are enough as enablers. But I see RealOG sideboarded Shriekhorn out everytime and performed great, so maybe it does suffice.
My main concern so far is whether 4 Mulch and 4 Faithless Looting are enough as enablers. But I see RealOG sideboarded Shriekhorn out everytime and performed great, so maybe it does suffice.
Well, the real thing is understanding the matchups. Certain matchups rely on speed, others rely on staying alive. Against control, you want to leave Shriekhorn in (though you can conveniently side out GttB and Slagstorm to make up for it); against aggro, you want to take Shriekhorn out (which opens up room for Ratchet Bomb and/or Daybreak Ranger). Shriekhorn allows us to conveniently have fast opens with Boneyard Wurm and Splinterfright. However, when playing as the control deck, Shriekhorn doesn't do much, and so it is more valuable as a different card. The main reason I sided it out every time was simply because I felt I would be in a better position playing to stay alive than playing to crush the opponent. The only matchup(s) I probably should have left it in was against the Naya Superfriends and, maybe, BUG tokens. In all the other matchups, siding in board wipes was much more valuable. But even when running on just 8 mill cards, you get a lot of value of of them. Realistically, between creatures dying and milling, you should be able to get 4-5 creatures in your graveyard by turn 4-5.
Quote from bearsman6 »
RealOG, is Boneyard Wurm really made that much better by the inclusion of Kessig Wolf Run? I just... it's almost irrational at this point, but I really dislike that card. I've reverted to Viridian Emissary in the 2 slot, especially since I'm not ramping as hard (with the dorks) as you are.
I'm not sure if KWR makes it that much better, but I like it better than any other 2 drop. Splinterfright > Ghoultree >> Boneyard Wurm >>>>> every other small creature if you can easily get creatures into the graveyard. The fact that it is consistently a threat throughout the entire game is what makes it good imo. That's the big thing for me, the consistency. With Boneyard Wurm, we get ~14 must answer threats (SF, GT, BW, KCB), 2 of which become even more difficult to deal with when KWR is on the field. With the addition of Slagstorm, being able to clear the field and then swing with a 6/6 or 7/7 BW is amazing. I completely understand the dislike of the card, and I often find myself pitching it on FL to hold onto the 2 superior options. But it is a completely valid threat and a strong inclusion in the deck.
Edit: Oh yeah, and before anyone asks, I never once had a problem casting Slagstorm with my manabase. And I usually drew one per game, so 2 is probably the correct number except when playing against heavy aggro decks, which you side in more board wipes against. So now, the main cards red gives us are: Faithless Looting, Grim Lavamancer, Slagstorm, and Kessig Wolf Run. As you can see, FL replaces some of the function of the U/G deck, while GL, SS, and KWR provide valuable functionality and interaction to the self-mill deck.
Good list Real, definitely gonna copy it for testing. I do like the minimal U splash right now but obviously the straight R/G benefits are great. Quick aside, after someone mentioned Forge Devil I started thinking of little quirky cards that could help so has anyone tried Torch Fiend in place of Ancient Grudge? Flashback is awfully nice but against what we would want it for (Cage), we wouldn't be getting the extra utility every time. Since it comes down early and beats for 2 plus can fill the yard, it seemed like it might be worth testing. Finalizing a list that is RGu and will post soon (unless I should just head over to the original Standard Dredge thread is this is strictly R/G discussion only).
Glad that the manabase was legit enough for Slagstorm; Temp Steel has a chance to come back (the BW Sorin steel list looks nutty) so Whipflare is just too much of a liability.
Good list Real, definitely gonna copy it for testing. I do like the minimal U splash right now but obviously the straight R/G benefits are great. Quick aside, after someone mentioned Forge Devil I started thinking of little quirky cards that could help so has anyone tried Torch Fiend in place of Ancient Grudge? Flashback is awfully nice but against what we would want it for (Cage), we wouldn't be getting the extra utility every time. Since it comes down early and beats for 2 plus can fill the yard, it seemed like it might be worth testing. Finalizing a list that is RGu and will post soon (unless I should just head over to the original Standard Dredge thread is this is strictly R/G discussion only).
Glad that the manabase was legit enough for Slagstorm; Temp Steel has a chance to come back (the BW Sorin steel list looks nutty) so Whipflare is just too much of a liability.
No you should post the list here. I'm interested to see yours as I also want to go RUG I think. Do you think that a RG with a U splash could play Slagstorm?
Is it bad that the only thing I really miss from the blue version is Artful Dodge? I mean, I only just started playing with that card, but it is sick. Especially since it has flashback. That + Ghoultree = 2 turn clock. I love it.
All the rest, though, I don't really miss.
I'm still not sure whether Stromkirk Noble or Birds of Paradise are worthy of the other 1-slot with the Lavamancers and Lootings. I just don't know if the ramp is worth enough. Maybe if I slide the two Bonehoards back into my sb, making the evasion that much nicer.
Good list Real, definitely gonna copy it for testing. I do like the minimal U splash right now but obviously the straight R/G benefits are great. Quick aside, after someone mentioned Forge Devil I started thinking of little quirky cards that could help so has anyone tried Torch Fiend in place of Ancient Grudge? Flashback is awfully nice but against what we would want it for (Cage), we wouldn't be getting the extra utility every time. Since it comes down early and beats for 2 plus can fill the yard, it seemed like it might be worth testing. Finalizing a list that is RGu and will post soon (unless I should just head over to the original Standard Dredge thread is this is strictly R/G discussion only).
Glad that the manabase was legit enough for Slagstorm; Temp Steel has a chance to come back (the BW Sorin steel list looks nutty) so Whipflare is just too much of a liability.
Part of what makes Slagstorm so easy to play in this list is the fact that we have BoP to help us even out our manabase. It is going to be a bit awkward though. Depending on how much you splash for, you might have some problems in the early game, but eventually Mulch should even you out. I would suggest a couple of Hinterland Harbor for Forests, a single Island, and a couple of Evolving Wilds. I know some other people have been trying out the splash; maybe some of them have an idea of how to make it work. I think a very minimal splash of U could be supported in our list. And I'm fine with decks that are R/G with a splash of another color. The main differentiation between this thread and the Standard Dredge thread is that we are more focused on R and G, but I wouldn't want to minimize people's creativity in the aspect of seeing if splashes benefit the deck.
I'm not sure I would like a switch to Torch Fiend though. One of the main reasons I have the Ancient Grudges in the board is because this deck is weak to extremely fast decks, like Tempered Steel. As I mentioned a few posts back, there are certain matchups were the goal is to just stay alive; TS is one of those matchups. In that matchup, AG is awesome, because if we can draw/mill it early, we can use it to slow down their rush enough to get a GttB together and take over the game. It will be interesting to see how many people side in Grafdigger's Cage against us, since it isn't particularly effective against us (though it is annoying). Personally, the cage is much more preferred than Nihil Spellbomb; but I fear that the rise of Runechanter's Pike will bring Nihil Spellbomb into a lot of people's sideboards. Get prepared...
I find it a little bit interesting that the Standard Dredge thread has started to lean in our direction. I keep looking over there and I repeatedly see questions about whether running Red is a good idea and what there is to gain from it. Maybe, eventually, we'll be able to convert all of them to our way of running Dredge.
Is it bad that the only thing I really miss from the blue version is Artful Dodge? I mean, I only just started playing with that card, but it is sick. Especially since it has flashback. That + Ghoultree = 2 turn clock. I love it.
All the rest, though, I don't really miss.
I can't describe how much I laughed after I read this. I mean the U/G deck is powerful, but it isn't really any more efficient than this deck, and it lacks the ability to interact in any way.
RealOG what do you think of running Thrun in the SB or MD? I think Kuji originally mentioned it and I'm now starting to see the power of the card. After watching a little bit of the SCG Open it seems like it hoses U/W Delver pretty good.
Also of note our match-up to mill(your opponent type) is probably not great because they'll only need to mill around 20 instead of say 50. Since one of my friends is using that for FNM I'm probably gonna have to get a Blightsteel.
RealOG what do you think of running Thrun in the SB or MD? I think Kuji originally mentioned it and I'm now starting to see the power of the card. After watching a little bit of the SCG Open it seems like it hoses U/W Delver pretty good.
Also of note our match-up to mill(your opponent type) is probably not great because they'll only need to mill around 20 instead of say 50. Since one of my friends is using that for FNM I'm probably gonna have to get a Blightsteel.
Actually, Thrun is one of the cards that I've been meaning to test out in the deck. I've been spending so much time getting the maindeck together that I haven't had as much time as I would like to run the sideboard through the Gauntlet. I don't play much online, so most of my tests have to be in person :-/. But, I think that Thrun has a place in the deck against Control, considering we can use it + KWR as a wincon. I would say ~2x Thrun to be the correct number.
One of the great things about this deck is that it can control its mill process. So, against Mill, I would say the best plan is to let them do your work for you. I would probably side out 2x Shriekhorn, 2x GttB and 1x Mulch for 2x Bonehoard, 1x Postmortem Lunge, and 2x Thrun. I agree, it could be an awkward matchup and could lead to some suprise losses, but I think that, considering its matchup against a lot of other decks is probably terrible, I'll take my chances.
Is it bad that the only thing I really miss from the blue version is Artful Dodge? I mean, I only just started playing with that card, but it is sick. Especially since it has flashback. That + Ghoultree = 2 turn clock. I love it.
All the rest, though, I don't really miss.
I'm still not sure whether Stromkirk Noble or Birds of Paradise are worthy of the other 1-slot with the Lavamancers and Lootings. I just don't know if the ramp is worth enough. Maybe if I slide the two Bonehoards back into my sb, making the evasion that much nicer.
[CARD]
Ghoultree[/CARD] + Artful Dodge are AMAZING!
Something I thought I'd share here as well Undying Pod was a big pain in the ass to deal with tonight with all its removal and having most of its creatures able to eat 2 themselves, has anyone else dealt with this deck?
Had 4 of them out of 18 players (normally store gets 60-70 so next week should show something more) 3 of them placed in top 8 and I'm not sure how many got top 4. Colors they all ran where G/W/r/u blue was just for counters in the one I played against.
Something I thought I'd share here as well Undying Pod was a big pain in the ass to deal with tonight with all its removal and having most of its creatures able to eat 2 themselves, has anyone else dealt with this deck?
Had 4 of them out of 18 players (normally store gets 60-70 so next week should show something more) 3 of them placed in top 8 and I'm not sure how many got top 4. Colors they all ran where G/W/r/u blue was just for counters in the one I played against.
I haven't gotten a chance to play against that deck yet. I'm not sure how much of a problem I would expect from that deck, since our general answer to everything is to just run it over. But your post does bring up a potential problem; if pod becomes big again, a lot of people might start running Glissa, the Traitor. She is a problem in the sense that we can't just KWR over her (first strike, deathtouch). Fortunately, we now have Slagstorm, but she is something to keep in mind when playing against G/B/x decks.
Quote from Ole R »
Hi guys I just made up this Acc to follow up the development of this deck. I've read all the 14 sites, and I agree for sure.. The Bomb is a big thread.. Have anyone thought about sideboarding Mental Misstep against it? I know it has a terrible synergy with the whole deck, but if it actually manege to be placed in the hand at the right spot. It could be gamebreaking against bomby-sideboard..
I see many of u are fans of Postmortem Lunge, but have you thought about running Swiftfoot boots instead, with the same function, it's even less awkward to the mill philosophy of the deck, I think.
I'm working on a RG list with no splash. I'm not a big fan of the blue splash myself.. I will list it here soon
Sorry for my probably bad english skills
Hello, welcome to the forum. Part of what makes Postmortem Lunge desirable is the fact that it wins games by itself. Yes, Swiftfoot Boots serves in the same function, but it also means that you have to draw a threat and draw the boots. With Postmortem Lunge, you can draw a threat or mill a threat and use Postmortem Lunge to bring the threat back with haste. Since the usual target is Kessig Cagebreakers, it usually ends the game. But recently, PML has fallen out of favor anyways, since it is best in the control matchup, so it is a pretty minor point. Mental Misstep is a card that I have looked into. We probably should be running it somewhere in our 75. The bigger problem is the issue of trying to preemptively sideboard against another person's sideboard. If they don't side in what you are trying to protect yourself from, you now have a dead card in hand. But that's mostly an issue of its own kind.
I look forward to your future posts.
Now, the other function of this post is to lay out my most recent update of my sideboard. I realized that my board was really well aligned for certain matchups (aggro), while not really well-defined for others (control). So, here it is:
The main changes were adding 2x Shriekhorn, 1x Gnaw to the Bone, and 1x Slagstorm and taking off 1x Kessig Cagebreakers, 1x Bonehoard, 1x Phyrexian Metamorph, and 2x Blasphemous Act. Pretty much when playing as the control deck in the aggro matchup, Slagstorm and Gnaw to the Bone are the two best options, so upping the counts on those would be the correct choice, and when playing as the aggro deck in the control matchup, Shriekhorn should be maxed out so that you can be as aggressive as possible. Against WRR, we should probably play as the aggro deck, since they have a slightly better late game than us.
Edit: Oops. Apparently I can't count. I'll leave that last space open for now. I would suggest leaving Phyrexian Metamorph there for filler until we decide on another good option. I got a chance to play zombies today. It was a pretty easy matchup since, like every other aggro deck, they can't deal with 10/10's when you have 30+ life. I would say they are actually marginally easier than the U/W spirit decks, since Slagstorm does hurt them, while you only lose 4-5 life.
@RealOG47 There a card missing from your updated sideboard?
The deck looks awesome! As a side note, it seems like an INS Block Constructed port would be really fun to mess around with online. You lose a bit of speed and dual lands, but have more time to work with in that format.
Something I thought I'd share here as well Undying Pod was a big pain in the ass to deal with tonight with all its removal and having most of its creatures able to eat 2 themselves, has anyone else dealt with this deck?
Had 4 of them out of 18 players (normally store gets 60-70 so next week should show something more) 3 of them placed in top 8 and I'm not sure how many got top 4. Colors they all ran where G/W/r/u blue was just for counters in the one I played against.
The hardest part of the Undying Pod is that they top out at Elesh Norn. We actually have an easy answer to that, though, in Phyrexian Metamorph. When I was playing that matchup, if I ever drew into one, I just let it sit in my hand... just in case... and I was never unhappy for that. Our deck is a lot faster than theirs normally, and even a DoJ helps us more than them, and that's their best answer to most things (though heavy-exile builds are different).
As far as the sideboards, I've found that I never really felt compelled to add a third GttB in, and that I was always reaching for more sweepers. I moved two Slagstorms md in response (but NOT in place of Gnaws, obviously). Next week I'll be running RG instead of UG at FNM, so we'll see how it goes.
Now to figure out which of the RG lists I want to play...
The hardest part of the Undying Pod is that they top out at Elesh Norn. We actually have an easy answer to that, though, in Phyrexian Metamorph. When I was playing that matchup, if I ever drew into one, I just let it sit in my hand... just in case... and I was never unhappy for that. Our deck is a lot faster than theirs normally, and even a DoJ helps us more than them, and that's their best answer to most things (though heavy-exile builds are different).
As far as the sideboards, I've found that I never really felt compelled to add a third GttB in, and that I was always reaching for more sweepers. I moved two Slagstorms md in response (but NOT in place of Gnaws, obviously). Next week I'll be running RG instead of UG at FNM, so we'll see how it goes.
Now to figure out which of the RG lists I want to play...
Yeah I'll be adding some Morphs as well and I should pick up some red so I'm not always running the same deck each week.
The thing with DoJ is he never used it, it was all fiend hunters and MB O-rings which is a ***** I would of had him game 1 if my fright wasn't only at 7/7 with 3 creatures in exile then Norn came down killed my bird and elk so fright stayed the same but that doesn't matter with a 8/7 Vorapede and an army of junk that had already all died once to pod sac or blocking me. Oh and I just remembered he was running Sun Titans too.
As you guessed Real, the U splash is very very small. I like Trackers since it should guarantee drawing a threat but so far it hasn't been that great. Reading back on the whole thread, it looks like most people weren't too impressed with Elk either but I wanted to try it since I was gong three colors. It's been meh.
What I did find funny was how much everyone hated the Skaabs; the whole reason I actually came upon this thread is because I took my Block Dredge deck from here and beat Mono Black Aggro and Mono Green Aggro (with DKA updates) quite easily. Armored Skaab was pretty awesome, especially turn 2 so it seemed that Screeching would be even better if I went more aggro. Dying to Gut Shot seems pretty bad though. Armored seems to be more about the mill than anything else. Not sure if I will go back to it.
Manabase changes that I just made and only tested 1 match is -2 Mountain -1 Rootbound +1 Hinterland +2 Wilds.
Artful Dodge is so awesome but I think it may be clouding good judgment. Good interaction through a straight R/G list is probably really where we want to be. Technically we could splash just for a Dodge or 2 and we have the enemy lands for it but it seems like a stretch.
A small question, coming to mind after looking at Squalls list. Would splashing blue if only for the use of Tracker's Instincts be worth it? Seems to me that if you ran even a small blue splash for the flashback, it becomes a much better card then Shreikhorn (especially because if you get one on your graveyard from another mill effect, it can extend the range of that mill by 4 more cards, where as a Shreikhorn milled becomes a dead card), or does the fact that the possibility of the only creature among the 4 going to your hand lean the card more twords unplayable in this style of deck?
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A small question, coming to mind after looking at Squalls list. Would splashing blue if only for the use of Tracker's Instincts be worth it? Seems to me that if you ran even a small blue splash for the flashback, it becomes a much better card then Shreikhorn, or does the fact that the possibility of the only creature among the 4 going to your hand lean the card more twords unplayable in this style of deck?
What I really like about Instincts is the fact that it lets you draw into your creatures. I used to have issues with decks with heavy disruption, but since adding Instincts I find that it takes a longer to run out of gas
So i'm thinking about building the following list, as my friend has most of the cards i need, id only have to pickup some key cards like Ghoultrees and Grim Lavamancers;
(*): Not sure if I should run Llanowar, or Viridian Emissarys, as they can thin the deck and give me more mana fixing ability. The deck has many other turn 1 options, turning 1 set of 1 drops into a 2 drop shouldn't hurt to bad id think. Hell, I'm even thinking of putting Ambush Vipers in on this slot. Vipers are great removal in a lot of games I've played.
Thoughts on its balance? If any thing i worry about its mana base, only because i dread getting that "perfect" opening hand, only to have the 1 mana thats not green enough to give me a solid turn 1 play. But I really like the idea of the benefits of Tracker's Instincts > Shreikhorn.
My Trade Thread
Could just be that I've been up for 32 hours, but your card count seems off. Either you ran with a 61 card deck, or one of your cards is off count. I'm curious to the answer, as I feel that is a strong list, and don't know if 61 was intentional or a mistake, and what would get cut in the event of.
Honestly, I didn't pay much attention to it. But Slagstorm gave me much more security in my matchups, gave me better outs, and didn't slow me down hardly. Often, I would Slagstorm, killing my birds and Lavamancers, but it would put enough creatures in my graveyard to play a 1 or 2 mana Ghoultree and buff my Splinterfright/Bonyard Wurm +2/+2. It was also important to have an effective answer against Mirran Crusader when Honor of the Pure was on the field. In addition, I was able to use the other ability of Slagstorm to kill a Karn (it was at 3 from exiling one of my guys), so I think that it was the right choice. One of the more obscure things that it helped me do was kill an undead Vorapede (6/5 after undying, Grim Lavamancer + Slagstorm took care of it).
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Forge Devil
4x Viridian Emissary
4x Splinterfright
3x Hellrider
2x Kessig Cagebreakers
4x Ghoultree
Other spells
4x Faithless Looting
4x Mulch
2x Slagstorm
2x Gnaw to the Bone
8x Forest
3x Kessig Wolf Run
5x Mountain
4x Rootbound Crag
3x Evolving Wilds
3x Ancient Grudge
2x Bonehoard //OR// Acidic Slime
3x Brimstone Volley //OR// Fling
2x Daybreak Ranger
1x Kessig Cagebreakers
2x Postmortem Lunge
2x Ratchet Bomb
Gotta do some more testing though, but I like it!
Then there's the Huntmaster, which I just can't not play. So there's 2 of him in there, too.
RealOG, is Boneyard Wurm really made that much better by the inclusion of Kessig Wolf Run? I just... it's almost irrational at this point, but I really dislike that card. I've reverted to Viridian Emissary in the 2 slot, especially since I'm not ramping as hard (with the dorks) as you are.
Speaking of the 2 slot, what are the thoughts on Torch Fiend? He's not quite Ancient Grudge, but he's a creature, and he has 2 power -- which is more and more relevant, as this list is fairly aggressive.
Lastly, I'm re-debating my inclusion of Forge Devils, because in my local meta I'm not sure I want to be killing off their 1-drops. That just leads to 1/1 flying Spirits. Freaking tokens. Enough to make me want to Glissa/Ratchet Bomb.
Currently Working On: Jund Ramp (RTR Block)
GR My Blog RG (Std)
Well, the real thing is understanding the matchups. Certain matchups rely on speed, others rely on staying alive. Against control, you want to leave Shriekhorn in (though you can conveniently side out GttB and Slagstorm to make up for it); against aggro, you want to take Shriekhorn out (which opens up room for Ratchet Bomb and/or Daybreak Ranger). Shriekhorn allows us to conveniently have fast opens with Boneyard Wurm and Splinterfright. However, when playing as the control deck, Shriekhorn doesn't do much, and so it is more valuable as a different card. The main reason I sided it out every time was simply because I felt I would be in a better position playing to stay alive than playing to crush the opponent. The only matchup(s) I probably should have left it in was against the Naya Superfriends and, maybe, BUG tokens. In all the other matchups, siding in board wipes was much more valuable. But even when running on just 8 mill cards, you get a lot of value of of them. Realistically, between creatures dying and milling, you should be able to get 4-5 creatures in your graveyard by turn 4-5.
I'm not sure if KWR makes it that much better, but I like it better than any other 2 drop. Splinterfright > Ghoultree >> Boneyard Wurm >>>>> every other small creature if you can easily get creatures into the graveyard. The fact that it is consistently a threat throughout the entire game is what makes it good imo. That's the big thing for me, the consistency. With Boneyard Wurm, we get ~14 must answer threats (SF, GT, BW, KCB), 2 of which become even more difficult to deal with when KWR is on the field. With the addition of Slagstorm, being able to clear the field and then swing with a 6/6 or 7/7 BW is amazing. I completely understand the dislike of the card, and I often find myself pitching it on FL to hold onto the 2 superior options. But it is a completely valid threat and a strong inclusion in the deck.
Edit: Oh yeah, and before anyone asks, I never once had a problem casting Slagstorm with my manabase. And I usually drew one per game, so 2 is probably the correct number except when playing against heavy aggro decks, which you side in more board wipes against. So now, the main cards red gives us are: Faithless Looting, Grim Lavamancer, Slagstorm, and Kessig Wolf Run. As you can see, FL replaces some of the function of the U/G deck, while GL, SS, and KWR provide valuable functionality and interaction to the self-mill deck.
Glad that the manabase was legit enough for Slagstorm; Temp Steel has a chance to come back (the BW Sorin steel list looks nutty) so Whipflare is just too much of a liability.
No you should post the list here. I'm interested to see yours as I also want to go RUG I think. Do you think that a RG with a U splash could play Slagstorm?
My Trade Thread
All the rest, though, I don't really miss.
I'm still not sure whether Stromkirk Noble or Birds of Paradise are worthy of the other 1-slot with the Lavamancers and Lootings. I just don't know if the ramp is worth enough. Maybe if I slide the two Bonehoards back into my sb, making the evasion that much nicer.
Currently Working On: Jund Ramp (RTR Block)
GR My Blog RG (Std)
Part of what makes Slagstorm so easy to play in this list is the fact that we have BoP to help us even out our manabase. It is going to be a bit awkward though. Depending on how much you splash for, you might have some problems in the early game, but eventually Mulch should even you out. I would suggest a couple of Hinterland Harbor for Forests, a single Island, and a couple of Evolving Wilds. I know some other people have been trying out the splash; maybe some of them have an idea of how to make it work. I think a very minimal splash of U could be supported in our list. And I'm fine with decks that are R/G with a splash of another color. The main differentiation between this thread and the Standard Dredge thread is that we are more focused on R and G, but I wouldn't want to minimize people's creativity in the aspect of seeing if splashes benefit the deck.
I'm not sure I would like a switch to Torch Fiend though. One of the main reasons I have the Ancient Grudges in the board is because this deck is weak to extremely fast decks, like Tempered Steel. As I mentioned a few posts back, there are certain matchups were the goal is to just stay alive; TS is one of those matchups. In that matchup, AG is awesome, because if we can draw/mill it early, we can use it to slow down their rush enough to get a GttB together and take over the game. It will be interesting to see how many people side in Grafdigger's Cage against us, since it isn't particularly effective against us (though it is annoying). Personally, the cage is much more preferred than Nihil Spellbomb; but I fear that the rise of Runechanter's Pike will bring Nihil Spellbomb into a lot of people's sideboards. Get prepared...
I find it a little bit interesting that the Standard Dredge thread has started to lean in our direction. I keep looking over there and I repeatedly see questions about whether running Red is a good idea and what there is to gain from it. Maybe, eventually, we'll be able to convert all of them to our way of running Dredge.
I can't describe how much I laughed after I read this. I mean the U/G deck is powerful, but it isn't really any more efficient than this deck, and it lacks the ability to interact in any way.
Also of note our match-up to mill(your opponent type) is probably not great because they'll only need to mill around 20 instead of say 50. Since one of my friends is using that for FNM I'm probably gonna have to get a Blightsteel.
My Trade Thread
Actually, Thrun is one of the cards that I've been meaning to test out in the deck. I've been spending so much time getting the maindeck together that I haven't had as much time as I would like to run the sideboard through the Gauntlet. I don't play much online, so most of my tests have to be in person :-/. But, I think that Thrun has a place in the deck against Control, considering we can use it + KWR as a wincon. I would say ~2x Thrun to be the correct number.
One of the great things about this deck is that it can control its mill process. So, against Mill, I would say the best plan is to let them do your work for you. I would probably side out 2x Shriekhorn, 2x GttB and 1x Mulch for 2x Bonehoard, 1x Postmortem Lunge, and 2x Thrun. I agree, it could be an awkward matchup and could lead to some suprise losses, but I think that, considering its matchup against a lot of other decks is probably terrible, I'll take my chances.
[CARD]
Ghoultree[/CARD] + Artful Dodge are AMAZING!
I'm thinking of going RUG (was UG), for Faithless looting and Fling.
Why is no one running Fling?
WRGBCombo MillWRGB
???
Modern:
UUWWErayo AffinityWWUU
WWGUEnchantress ControlUGWW
EDH:
GGBBGlissa MultiplayerBBGG
RRRRKazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs Land DestructionRRRR
Most likely because it's situational and is useless if it gets milled
Standard:
GU Prophet
Legacy:
WBU Shared Fate
Trades
Had 4 of them out of 18 players (normally store gets 60-70 so next week should show something more) 3 of them placed in top 8 and I'm not sure how many got top 4. Colors they all ran where G/W/r/u blue was just for counters in the one I played against.
I haven't gotten a chance to play against that deck yet. I'm not sure how much of a problem I would expect from that deck, since our general answer to everything is to just run it over. But your post does bring up a potential problem; if pod becomes big again, a lot of people might start running Glissa, the Traitor. She is a problem in the sense that we can't just KWR over her (first strike, deathtouch). Fortunately, we now have Slagstorm, but she is something to keep in mind when playing against G/B/x decks.
Hello, welcome to the forum. Part of what makes Postmortem Lunge desirable is the fact that it wins games by itself. Yes, Swiftfoot Boots serves in the same function, but it also means that you have to draw a threat and draw the boots. With Postmortem Lunge, you can draw a threat or mill a threat and use Postmortem Lunge to bring the threat back with haste. Since the usual target is Kessig Cagebreakers, it usually ends the game. But recently, PML has fallen out of favor anyways, since it is best in the control matchup, so it is a pretty minor point. Mental Misstep is a card that I have looked into. We probably should be running it somewhere in our 75. The bigger problem is the issue of trying to preemptively sideboard against another person's sideboard. If they don't side in what you are trying to protect yourself from, you now have a dead card in hand. But that's mostly an issue of its own kind.
I look forward to your future posts.
Now, the other function of this post is to lay out my most recent update of my sideboard. I realized that my board was really well aligned for certain matchups (aggro), while not really well-defined for others (control). So, here it is:
2x Daybreak Ranger
3x Ancient Grudge
1x Postmortem Lunge
1x Bonehoard
2x Shriekhorn
1x Mimic Vat
2x Ratchet Bomb
1x Gnaw to the Bone
1x Slagstorm
1x xxxxxx
Edit: Oops. Apparently I can't count. I'll leave that last space open for now. I would suggest leaving Phyrexian Metamorph there for filler until we decide on another good option. I got a chance to play zombies today. It was a pretty easy matchup since, like every other aggro deck, they can't deal with 10/10's when you have 30+ life. I would say they are actually marginally easier than the U/W spirit decks, since Slagstorm does hurt them, while you only lose 4-5 life.
What's up with the singletons in the sideboard though? Aren't you better of having more of f.ex post mortem lunge than the singleton mimic vat?
The deck looks awesome! As a side note, it seems like an INS Block Constructed port would be really fun to mess around with online. You lose a bit of speed and dual lands, but have more time to work with in that format.
UWR UWR Midrange
Modern
R Affinity
The hardest part of the Undying Pod is that they top out at Elesh Norn. We actually have an easy answer to that, though, in Phyrexian Metamorph. When I was playing that matchup, if I ever drew into one, I just let it sit in my hand... just in case... and I was never unhappy for that. Our deck is a lot faster than theirs normally, and even a DoJ helps us more than them, and that's their best answer to most things (though heavy-exile builds are different).
As far as the sideboards, I've found that I never really felt compelled to add a third GttB in, and that I was always reaching for more sweepers. I moved two Slagstorms md in response (but NOT in place of Gnaws, obviously). Next week I'll be running RG instead of UG at FNM, so we'll see how it goes.
Now to figure out which of the RG lists I want to play...
Currently Working On: Jund Ramp (RTR Block)
GR My Blog RG (Std)
Yeah I'll be adding some Morphs as well and I should pick up some red so I'm not always running the same deck each week.
The thing with DoJ is he never used it, it was all fiend hunters and MB O-rings which is a ***** I would of had him game 1 if my fright wasn't only at 7/7 with 3 creatures in exile then Norn came down killed my bird and elk so fright stayed the same but that doesn't matter with a 8/7 Vorapede and an army of junk that had already all died once to pod sac or blocking me. Oh and I just remembered he was running Sun Titans too.
6 Forest
1 Island
3 Hinterland Harbor
2 Rootbound Crag
4 Copperline Gorge
5 Mountain
4 Splinterfright
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Screeching Skaab
2 Llanowar Elves
3 Ghoultree
3 Kessig Cagebreakers
3 Dawntreader Elk
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Faithless Looting
4 Mulch
2 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Artful Dodge
2 Tracker's Instincts
As you guessed Real, the U splash is very very small. I like Trackers since it should guarantee drawing a threat but so far it hasn't been that great. Reading back on the whole thread, it looks like most people weren't too impressed with Elk either but I wanted to try it since I was gong three colors. It's been meh.
What I did find funny was how much everyone hated the Skaabs; the whole reason I actually came upon this thread is because I took my Block Dredge deck from here and beat Mono Black Aggro and Mono Green Aggro (with DKA updates) quite easily. Armored Skaab was pretty awesome, especially turn 2 so it seemed that Screeching would be even better if I went more aggro. Dying to Gut Shot seems pretty bad though. Armored seems to be more about the mill than anything else. Not sure if I will go back to it.
Manabase changes that I just made and only tested 1 match is -2 Mountain -1 Rootbound +1 Hinterland +2 Wilds.
Artful Dodge is so awesome but I think it may be clouding good judgment. Good interaction through a straight R/G list is probably really where we want to be. Technically we could splash just for a Dodge or 2 and we have the enemy lands for it but it seems like a stretch.
What I really like about Instincts is the fact that it lets you draw into your creatures. I used to have issues with decks with heavy disruption, but since adding Instincts I find that it takes a longer to run out of gas
Standard:
GU Prophet
Legacy:
WBU Shared Fate
Trades
4 Boneyard Wurm
4 Ghoultree
4 Splinterfright
2 Kessig Cagebreakers
Creatures "Utility": 12
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Llanowar Elves (*)
Mill: 10
4 Faithless Looting
4 Mulch
2 Tracker's Instincts
2 Gnaw to the Bone
2 Slagstorm
Lands: 20
3 Rootbound Crag
4 Copperline Gorge
1 Hinterland Harbor
2 Kessig Wolf Run
8 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Island
2 Daybreak Ranger
3 Ancient Grudge
1 Postmortem Lunge
1 Kessig Cagebreakers
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Blasphemous Act
2 Bonehoard
(*): Not sure if I should run Llanowar, or Viridian Emissarys, as they can thin the deck and give me more mana fixing ability. The deck has many other turn 1 options, turning 1 set of 1 drops into a 2 drop shouldn't hurt to bad id think. Hell, I'm even thinking of putting Ambush Vipers in on this slot. Vipers are great removal in a lot of games I've played.
Thoughts on its balance? If any thing i worry about its mana base, only because i dread getting that "perfect" opening hand, only to have the 1 mana thats not green enough to give me a solid turn 1 play. But I really like the idea of the benefits of Tracker's Instincts > Shreikhorn.