You inability to admit when you are blatantly wrong because it might hurt your case amuses me.
No, i did not stop lying. I suggested that having someone start at 3 life because of the dice roll. Would be bring too much luck into the game. Something that straight up insanity not to agree with. This should confront you with the fact that added luck to the game isn't always a good thing. But your in denial. The fact that you are unwilling to admit that a line exists when luck becomes to much of a factor is laughable.
No, see above.
No, actually i don't think the leylines are undercosted even when you have them in your opening grip. They do things that are fair a 0 cmc.
What i meant was. Would you rather the analogy be Black lotus vs gilded lotus. To show something can be fair at 1 cost and too good at another.
So, when someone Cast Terminus for W. They didn't cast it for W? Just because something happens less often doesn't mean it doesn't happen. When those times happen it still going to do someone way above the curve.
It's Fair 50
Creature
20/20
Flying, Pro everything, haste, can't be countered.
If it is Friday, you may roll a d20 if It's fair is in your starting hand. If you roll a 20 put it's fair into the battlefield.
When It's fair enters the battlefield it becomes your turn.
That's fair according to your logic. I mean it costs 50 and only sometimes cost 0.
I wasn't aware Terminus won the game on its own? If you don't want to get blown out, then work on your game, your reads, and your deck construction. Miracle changes nothing about the game at all. You still can't overextend, you still can't expect the opponent to not try to win while you do.
As a blue player I love miracles, people think that randomly having an undercosted spell off the top of their deck can win the game for some reason instead of you know, actually learning to play.
You inability to admit when you are blatantly wrong because it might hurt your case amuses me.
I dont think miracles are equivalent to automatically winning the game every time you top deck them.
Or are 17 point life swings.
YOU do.
Thats a matter of opinion.
FACTS however support my side, unless you count an enormous Entreat the Angels and [CARD]Bonfire of the Damned
[/CARD].
No, i did not stop lying. I suggested that having someone start at 3 life because of the dice roll. Would be bring too much luck into the game. Something that straight up insanity not to agree with. This should confront you with the fact that added luck to the game isn't always a good thing. But your in denial. The fact that you are unwilling to admit that a line exists when luck becomes to much of a factor is laughable.
You are suggesting that miracles provide an advantage based on luck that is insurmountable.
I disagree.
For you to bring up RIDICULOUS hypothetical additional rules, that do not exist anywhere but in your mind as proof of something, is absurd.
I dont even need to acknowledge your idiotic stipulations on the game that you think miracles are equivalent to.
Or do you actually not believe that those analogies are equivalent?
Are you making blatant over exaggerations?
How can you be taken seriously if youre arguing Terminus is equivalent to starting the game against an opponent at 3 life.
No, you certainly did not stop lying.
What i meant was. Would you rather the analogy be Black lotus vs gilded lotus. To show something can be fair at 1 cost and too good at another.
Thats what youre not trying to understand, "Miracle lotus" costs gilded lotus mana in your opening hand. You can only use "miracle lotus" during the first draw of a turn. There ARE drawbacks.
It's Fair 50
Creature
20/20
Flying, Pro everything, haste, can't be countered.
If it is Friday, you may roll a d20 if It's fair is in your starting hand. If you roll a 20 put it's fair into the battlefield.
When It's fair enters the battlefield it becomes your turn.
That's fair according to your logic. I mean it costs 50 and only sometimes cost 0.
Amazing.
Do you actually believe ANY miracle card is even remotely close to the boat that takes you to the plane, that takes you to the train, that takes you to the tram, that takes you to the ballpark where your absurdities lie?
People complaining about a new set mechanic; this is new and interesting. At least wait until the format is fleshed out a bit before determining that miracles are unplayable, broken, or whatever else.
I wasn't aware Terminus won the game on its own? If you don't want to get blown out, then work on your game, your reads, and your deck construction. Miracle changes nothing about the game at all. You still can't overextend, you still can't expect the opponent to not try to win while you do.
As a blue player I love miracles, people think that randomly having an undercosted spell off the top of their deck can win the game for some reason instead of you know, actually learning to play.
This is what you sound like. I wasn't aware Black lotus won the game on it's own?
See how your statement is wrong? Cards don't need to win the game by themselves to be OP. Yes Lotus is much much better then terminus. Terminus is still just too good when is cast for 1. It also nearly impossible to play around. It is one of the few spells that can't be mana leaked, Unlike DoJ it is strong against things like grave crawler and undying. Your opponent can do things like casting a PW to force you into overextending. When the do cast it for 1 they often get to follow it up with a Sorin unlike DoJ which require 8 mana to do that. At which point your just dead 90% of the time. You can't just play agro or Temp agro and just sit back to beat the control decks of the format. No matter how good you are at the game your going to get blow out by terminus when they miracle the card more often then not. Pretty much any time you don't negate.
Miracle also does change the game. It adds and extra layer of luck that is totally unnecessary. In my opinion it has a negative impact on the fun factor of the game. Good Mechanics have a positive effect on it.
"I have no idea what it's like not to be a straight white male, and the experiences of others are irrelevant." -Conservative Motto
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
I believe that Miracles add what others are calling "a layer of luck" to the game. However, to say that they're unfair is somewhat ridiculous.
This is simply a mechanic that rewards players for a "nut draw". Instead of just drawing a Day of Judgment right on time and wiping the board, it gives my opponent a trigger to show how I just luck-sacked out of the situation, allows me to pay W and cast it immediately, and then drop a Geist of Saint Traft.
They are undercosted, and also overcosted. A six mana Hallowed Burial is playable, but by Hallowed Burial standards, worse. Giving a player the opportunity to cast it for one mana is an advantage to the drawback, but this assumes several things. First, that I'm not ahead on board. Second, that you have a strong creature presence (not the case in something like Walker Control). And finally, that Terminus was a draw that I don't mind revealing, we're in the lategame enough that I have a followup play/abilities to use, and I'm fairly certain that you're not playing around it.
Bonfire of the Damned is an expensive Simoon that has the ability to Comet Storm your opponent. Once again, this assumes that I have enough mana to kill your creatures, that you have creatures (otherwise it's a glorified Fireball), that I'm not afraid of responses (Mana Leak, Divine Deflection, etc.), and that I'm ok with using all of my mana on my draw step to set you back.
I don't believe in any way that these cards are broken. I believe that many people go into "The sky is falling" mode whenever something crazy or new comes around. But I trust Wizards, and I believe that they did enough research to ensure that the game doesn't become a silly game of back and forth luck-topdecks. The game still requires skill, and I'm sure the professionals will continue to perform as such. The advent of Miracles won't cause an uprising of incredibly lucky rookies that just always draw the exactly right card.
Miracle is a new, interesting mechanic. I don't believe it's a broken mechanic, because the timing restrictions and the potential for very poor opening hands miracles create within your decks. I hope that further play will impress upon you the concept of variance. Cheap things are great and sometimes gamebreaking, but with Miracle the bar requires you to have use (and mana) for the cheap thing the exact moment you draw it. I believe that requirement is restrictive enough that you won't see a "miracle only" standard.
I believe that Miracles add what others are calling "a layer of luck" to the game. However, to say that they're unfair is somewhat ridiculous.
This is simply a mechanic that rewards players for a "nut draw". Instead of just drawing a Day of Judgment right on time and wiping the board, it gives my opponent a trigger to show how I just luck-sacked out of the situation, allows me to pay W and cast it immediately, and then drop a Geist of Saint Traft.
They are undercosted, and also overcosted. A six mana Hallowed Burial is playable, but by Hallowed Burial standards, worse. Giving a player the opportunity to cast it for one mana is an advantage to the drawback, but this assumes several things. First, that I'm not ahead on board. Second, that you have a strong creature presence (not the case in something like Walker Control). And finally, that Terminus was a draw that I don't mind revealing, we're in the lategame enough that I have a followup play/abilities to use, and I'm fairly certain that you're not playing around it.
Bonfire of the Damned is an expensive Simoon that has the ability to Comet Storm your opponent. Once again, this assumes that I have enough mana to kill your creatures, that you have creatures (otherwise it's a glorified Fireball), that I'm not afraid of responses (Mana Leak, Divine Deflection, etc.), and that I'm ok with using all of my mana on my draw step to set you back.
I don't believe in any way that these cards are broken. I believe that many people go into "The sky is falling" mode whenever something crazy or new comes around. But I trust Wizards, and I believe that they did enough research to ensure that the game doesn't become a silly game of back and forth luck-topdecks. The game still requires skill, and I'm sure the professionals will continue to perform as such. The advent of Miracles won't cause an uprising of incredibly lucky rookies that just always draw the exactly right card.
Miracle is a new, interesting mechanic. I don't believe it's a broken mechanic, because the timing restrictions and the potential for very poor opening hands miracles create within your decks. I hope that further play will impress upon you the concept of variance. Cheap things are great and sometimes gamebreaking, but with Miracle the bar requires you to have use for the cheap thing the exact moment you draw it. I believe that requirement is restrictive enough that you won't see a "miracle only" standard.
Very well said and I agree with it 100%.
Having said that, there are still going to be people who hate it. If enough people hate it and make their hate public to the right people (WotC) this may very well be the last time we see these cards.
How many mechanics have we had that were one shot deals that never came back?
Don't be surprised if this one joins the list if for no other reason than enough people crying out that it's unfair and makes the game a lucksack unfair thing to play.
Haven't we seen this all before though?
Just imagine:
"I gave it a try, Its dumb, I hate it. Really, you flip the best card in your deck, and then it becomes 50% better or more?! This is a skill based game, with people who are working to make the most well oiled machines of decks, and getting foiled by a bs huntmaster of the fells is freakin stupid and annoying. This happens to me almost every game I play now, I just want to kill something.
Haven't we seen this all before though?
Just imagine:
"I gave it a try, Its dumb, I hate it. Really, you flip the best card in your deck, and then it becomes 50% better or more?! This is a skill based game, with people who are working to make the most well oiled machines of decks, and getting foiled by a bs huntmaster of the fells is freakin stupid and annoying. This happens to me almost every game I play now, I just want to kill something.
Agree disagree?"
Hmm... vaguely familiar.
A lot of the people who vocally spoke out against DFCs are now playing Delver.
Having said that, there are still going to be people who hate it. If enough people hate it and make their hate public to the right people (WotC) this may very well be the last time we see these cards.
How many mechanics have we had that were one shot deals that never came back?
Don't be surprised if this one joins the list if for no other reason than enough people crying out that it's unfair and makes the game a lucksack unfair thing to play.
I was under the impression that WotC just changed mechanics for variety and a fresh feeling to the game, not a bunch of people talking about how the mechanic was overpowered.
Though now that I think about it, making it so every land you draw all of the sudden became useful was too powerful. Yeah, I don't think Retrace or Landfall will happen again.
Speaking of overpowered mechanics, Flying keeps making my opponent's lethal damage get over my 6/6 Giant and his army of Zombies... You'd think the zombies could make a ladder or something, but no. I keep dying to birds and sphinxes. Flying is OP.
Seriously though, the only time I've heard of wizards removing a mechanic because of complaints was Banding (which wasn't half as confusing as it was made out to be, though I understand the frustration).
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"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." -Albert Einstein
I was under the impression that WotC just changed mechanics for variety and a fresh feeling to the game, not a bunch of people talking about how the mechanic was overpowered.
Though now that I think about it, making it so every land you draw all of the sudden became useful was too powerful. Yeah, I don't think Retrace or Landfall will happen again.
Speaking of overpowered mechanics, Flying keeps making my opponent's lethal damage get over my 6/6 Giant and his army of Zombies... You'd think the zombies could make a ladder or something, but no. I keep dying to birds and sphinxes. Flying is OP.
Seriously though, the only time I've heard of wizards removing a mechanic because of complaints was Banding (which wasn't half as confusing as it was made out to be, though I understand the frustration).
Landfall was actually one of wizards and specifically MaRo's favorite mechanics. It can be viewed as one of there tools that "revitalized" magic since the whole magic boom started after zendikar was released. The biggest appeal of it was that it rewarded you for doing something that you naturally do, ergo people loved it.
Mechanics that wizards hates include dredge and storm since they create decks where you're not playing magic, your playing some weird solitaire variant where you try to ignore your opponent until you get there.
Those are the mechanics that wizards doesn't want to see prosper. Miracle will probably be a home run if I have to bet on it.
Also, your in Lawton? What game store do you play at? I'm at Tinker/midwest city.
LP, I'm checking your article out as well. Behind all of your swag is the brain of one of the most intelligent Magic players I've ever known. I guess that's one more thing for you to add to the wall of ego that is your Sally sig.
I can go with that. LK, you are the Mace Windu of red mages...cool, tempered logic in deliberation, but capable of just flat kicking tail when the situation warrants it.
EDH/Commander
Olivia Voldaren
Sigarda, Host of Herons
Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer
Jhoira of the Ghitu
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Edric, Spymaster of Trest
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
Rosheen Meanderer
Ghost Council of Orzhova
Vela the Night-Clad
I don't believe in any way that these cards are broken. I believe that many people go into "The sky is falling" mode whenever something crazy or new comes around.
The sky isn't falling, these cards aren't broken. But that doesn't make miracle a good mechanic. It still has a negative impact on the game IMO. Cycling, kicker, trample, flying these are the types of this that add layers of strategy to the game. Miracle adds did i draw the perfect card at the perfect time element to the game.
Landfall was actually one of wizards and specifically MaRo's favorite mechanics. It can be viewed as one of there tools that "revitalized" magic since the whole magic boom started after zendikar was released. The biggest appeal of it was that it rewarded you for doing something that you naturally do, ergo people loved it.
Landfall was pretty and miss. It was sweet in constructed with the ability to play a bunch of fetchlands. But in limited it most people hated it.
"I have no idea what it's like not to be a straight white male, and the experiences of others are irrelevant." -Conservative Motto
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
This is what you sound like. I wasn't aware Black lotus won the game on it's own?
See how your statement is wrong? Cards don't need to win the game by themselves to be OP. Yes Lotus is much much better then terminus. Terminus is still just too good when is cast for 1. It also nearly impossible to play around. It is one of the few spells that can't be mana leaked, Unlike DoJ it is strong against things like grave crawler and undying. Your opponent can do things like casting a PW to force you into overextending. When the do cast it for 1 they often get to follow it up with a Sorin unlike DoJ which require 8 mana to do that. At which point your just dead 90% of the time. You can't just play agro or Temp agro and just sit back to beat the control decks of the format. No matter how good you are at the game your going to get blow out by terminus when they miracle the card more often then not. Pretty much any time you don't negate.
Miracle also does change the game. It adds and extra layer of luck that is totally unnecessary. In my opinion it has a negative impact on the fun factor of the game. Good Mechanics have a positive effect on it.
If you're complaining about playing around sweepers, then it's strictly a problem with your game. Learn to play better, that mitigates Terminus. It never ever changes, a sweeper doesn't change anything, it doesn't win you the game.
But sure, think that Terminus is the same power level of Black Lotus.
If you're complaining about playing around sweepers, then it's strictly a problem with your game. Learn to play better, that mitigates Terminus. It never ever changes, a sweeper doesn't change anything, it doesn't win you the game.
But sure, think that Terminus is the same power level of Black Lotus.
He stated that Terminus is no where near as powerful as Black lotus. He also made a few good points as to why a luck sack one mana board sweeper is frustrating and a bad mechanic. The ability to wipe a board on turn 5 and then throw a Sorin into play is bonkers if you're the one casting it and infuriating if you're the one on the other end of it. Reminds me of Dark Hole in Yugioh or a surprise Sunscour when they have a huge hand (Though Sunscour is really awful in comparison to Terminus.)
Miracles aren't that great if you hard cast them and a few of them are unplayable. But, if you're lucky enough to rip one off the ropes it's a devastating impact almost every time past turn three. I doubt Commons hates it for its power level but actually because of it's crappy and luck based design.
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By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
Mhjames: mtgsalvation: I DON'T SEE HOW THIS CARD IS GOOD. I KNOW PATRICK CHAPIN USED IT AND WENT 8-0, BUT THAT WAS A SMALL TOURNAMENT. THE CARD IS TOO SLOW. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THE OPPONENT HAS A SPELL IN THE GRAVEYARD
He stated that Terminus is no where near as powerful as Black lotus. He also made a few good points as to why a luck sack one mana board sweeper is frustrating and a bad mechanic. The ability to wipe a board on turn 5 and then throw a Sorin into play is bonkers if you're the one casting it and infuriating if you're the one on the other end of it. Reminds me of Dark Hole in Yugioh or a surprise Sunscour when they have a huge hand (Though Sunscour is really awful in comparison to Terminus.)
Miracles aren't that great if you hard cast them and a few of them are unplayable. But, if you're lucky enough to rip one off the ropes it's a devastating impact almost every time past turn three. I doubt Commons hates it for its power level but actually because of it's crappy and luck based design.
It's no worse than hexproof or cavern, or turn 2 sword. Now players using sweepers can get lucky instead of just die to a giant board on turn 3, what a shame?
I play Magic to have fun... Miracle makes for good stories and is therefore fun. It feel bad to get crushed by a lucksack miracle, but it will make a good story for your opponent! Magic is, after all, just a game.
He stated that Terminus is no where near as powerful as Black lotus. He also made a few good points as to why a luck sack one mana board sweeper is frustrating and a bad mechanic. The ability to wipe a board on turn 5 and then throw a Sorin into play is bonkers if you're the one casting it and infuriating if you're the one on the other end of it. Reminds me of Dark Hole in Yugioh or a surprise Sunscour when they have a huge hand (Though Sunscour is really awful in comparison to Terminus.)
Miracles aren't that great if you hard cast them and a few of them are unplayable. But, if you're lucky enough to rip one off the ropes it's a devastating impact almost every time past turn three. I doubt Commons hates it for its power level but actually because of it's crappy and luck based design.
The argument I made earlier which nobody seemed to address is that even when you miracle at least certain cards, it's still a skill test. Turns 2/6(random numbers) miracling terminus can be awesome, but it's only going to be good against certain matchups and not worth it other times.
For the situations when your opponent tanks while drawing there card, this gives away information so it's going to be a skill to think about your possible draws before ripping your card for the turn. Sometimes there will be devastation, but I'm willing to bet that the mechanic is fine in practice and in theory, I think it makes the game a lot more interesting(though the green miracle cards are aweful in limited as far as "fun" goes).
This doesn't even take into account the fact that you still have to build decks with the mechanic in mind. One of the greatest tools to a magic player in constructed is preparation, and learning how to get the optimal max/mins on your miracles in deckbuilding is great imo. This is a mechanic that rewards good deckbuilding more than most. I doubt after the whole delver/snapcaster mistake that wizards would introduce miracle without having heavily tested the mechanic.
They are a company that is number one interested in making money because that's what businesses due, but after how horribly they failed with the initial proposal for OP and than immediately fixing it after the community outcry, it's pretty easy to see that they do care about the competitive community and therefore cares about what we like to play with at the competitive level. I support miracle 100%
LP, I'm checking your article out as well. Behind all of your swag is the brain of one of the most intelligent Magic players I've ever known. I guess that's one more thing for you to add to the wall of ego that is your Sally sig.
I can go with that. LK, you are the Mace Windu of red mages...cool, tempered logic in deliberation, but capable of just flat kicking tail when the situation warrants it.
This is 100% true. People that are caught up in the Halo vs. Call of Duty war don't seem to understand this either (personally, I think Halo is a much better game, but I like both, and they are just games. I also buy them for campaign, not multiplayer, which are both done better in Halo).
Back on topic, I like Miracle (even if some of the cards they printed with it are a little cheap), and since Magic (and pretty much any other card game) is alot more luck than skill (more of the skill is just in properly building a good deck than in actually playing the game), it doesn't really change the game much, especially to a relatively new player like myself (I have been playing since just after Mirrodin Besieged was released) or anyone that is starting out with this block or the Scars of Mirrodin Block.
Give people time to actually play with the cards, and just like the transform mechanic, over time, more and more people will like and use it
"The greatest harm can result from the best intentions" - Wizard's Second Rule
"Mind what people do, not only what they say, for deeds will betray a lie" - Wizard's Fifth Rule
"Life is the future, not the past" - Wizard's Seventh Rule
"Talga Vassternich. (Deserve Victory)" - Wizard's Eighth Rule
Wow. It seems the noobs are out in force -.-
Its a freaking card game, its going to have a deal of luck!
I dont want to know how many times I have managed to kill myself with my ANT deck because i get the crappy luck of revealing my only other Ad Nauseum When im down to 5 life trying to get tendrils. I've lost MANY games with dredge because you just get bad luck and dredge nothing but draw cards and not a single dredger/Bridge/Narcomeaba.
Additionally, the miracles add an extra level of intricacy into the game, especially for UB or UW. You ponder, notice a terminus say, and you have to think, do i want to draw this during their turn, or do i want to draw it during mine, or maybe I would rather just not draw it at all. With Ponder and The scry owl, you can build your deck to make miracle trigger when you want it to trigger. Which, I do believe, is called skill and experience. Just grow up -.-
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This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
No skill at all in reading the metagame correctly through testing and evaluating card choices so as to bring the best 75 for that tournament. None at all.
P.S. It's not skill, it's experience?! Best tell some of these athletes how their muscle memory got shaped...next time I see Lionel Messi jink past 3 defenders and roll it into the bottom corner I'll be sure to point out it's only because he learnt it once and then repeated it so it's definitely not skill...
Did you just compare MTG to athletics and muscle memory?
LMAO.
Cracks me up, but awful analogy.
On topic, Miracle is cool. it adds another layer of complexity onto the game. if you lost to a "luckily drawn terminus" or something, it's just part of the game now. Just like you can lose to a "luckily drawn card X"
Sounds like someone lost to a new card and decided to cry on the forums about how OP it is. What is this WoW? Nerfs AREN'T coming so either deal with it or don't play for awhile. The miracle cards are a new mechanic that must be dealt with. We had to deal with cascade when it was in. Affinity when it was in. Poison, hellbent, madness, blah, blah, blah. Learn to play with/against the mechanic.
On topic, Miracle is cool. it adds another layer of complexity onto the game. if you lost to a "luckily drawn terminus" or something, it's just part of the game now. Just like you can lose to a "luckily drawn card X"
That layer being? You could always "Luckily draw a card" nothing has changed in the respect. However now when you "luckily draw a card" it can do something broken. Luck doesn't = Complexity.
"I have no idea what it's like not to be a straight white male, and the experiences of others are irrelevant." -Conservative Motto
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
That layer being? You could always "Luckily draw a card" nothing has changed in the respect. However now when you "luckily draw a card" it can do something broken. Luck doesn't = Complexity.
what's broken? a lucky board wipe? please... There are WAY more broken cards in standard already. Angels? white sun does that too... at instant speed. Take an extra turn? If you're winning you'll probably win without this. if you're losing it's more likely to read untap and draw another card. Reforge? possibly the most broken of the whole set and it's only discounted 2 and still gives your opponents a full set of cards and the first full untap.
Explain to me how these cards are worse than top decking any card x that could win you the game?
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I wasn't aware Terminus won the game on its own? If you don't want to get blown out, then work on your game, your reads, and your deck construction. Miracle changes nothing about the game at all. You still can't overextend, you still can't expect the opponent to not try to win while you do.
As a blue player I love miracles, people think that randomly having an undercosted spell off the top of their deck can win the game for some reason instead of you know, actually learning to play.
I dont think miracles are equivalent to automatically winning the game every time you top deck them.
Or are 17 point life swings.
YOU do.
Thats a matter of opinion.
FACTS however support my side, unless you count an enormous Entreat the Angels and [CARD]Bonfire of the Damned
[/CARD].
You are suggesting that miracles provide an advantage based on luck that is insurmountable.
I disagree.
For you to bring up RIDICULOUS hypothetical additional rules, that do not exist anywhere but in your mind as proof of something, is absurd.
I dont even need to acknowledge your idiotic stipulations on the game that you think miracles are equivalent to.
Or do you actually not believe that those analogies are equivalent?
Are you making blatant over exaggerations?
How can you be taken seriously if youre arguing Terminus is equivalent to starting the game against an opponent at 3 life.
No, you certainly did not stop lying.
Thats what youre not trying to understand, "Miracle lotus" costs gilded lotus mana in your opening hand. You can only use "miracle lotus" during the first draw of a turn. There ARE drawbacks.
Amazing.
Do you actually believe ANY miracle card is even remotely close to the boat that takes you to the plane, that takes you to the train, that takes you to the tram, that takes you to the ballpark where your absurdities lie?
Maybe by just playing them, my opponents will rage quit and flip the table, thus allowing me to win.
Seriously, I've lived through a ton of broken cards.
These don't even come close.
This is what you sound like. I wasn't aware Black lotus won the game on it's own?
See how your statement is wrong? Cards don't need to win the game by themselves to be OP. Yes Lotus is much much better then terminus. Terminus is still just too good when is cast for 1. It also nearly impossible to play around. It is one of the few spells that can't be mana leaked, Unlike DoJ it is strong against things like grave crawler and undying. Your opponent can do things like casting a PW to force you into overextending. When the do cast it for 1 they often get to follow it up with a Sorin unlike DoJ which require 8 mana to do that. At which point your just dead 90% of the time. You can't just play agro or Temp agro and just sit back to beat the control decks of the format. No matter how good you are at the game your going to get blow out by terminus when they miracle the card more often then not. Pretty much any time you don't negate.
Miracle also does change the game. It adds and extra layer of luck that is totally unnecessary. In my opinion it has a negative impact on the fun factor of the game. Good Mechanics have a positive effect on it.
Flame infraction. - Blinking Spirit
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
This is simply a mechanic that rewards players for a "nut draw". Instead of just drawing a Day of Judgment right on time and wiping the board, it gives my opponent a trigger to show how I just luck-sacked out of the situation, allows me to pay W and cast it immediately, and then drop a Geist of Saint Traft.
They are undercosted, and also overcosted. A six mana Hallowed Burial is playable, but by Hallowed Burial standards, worse. Giving a player the opportunity to cast it for one mana is an advantage to the drawback, but this assumes several things. First, that I'm not ahead on board. Second, that you have a strong creature presence (not the case in something like Walker Control). And finally, that Terminus was a draw that I don't mind revealing, we're in the lategame enough that I have a followup play/abilities to use, and I'm fairly certain that you're not playing around it.
Bonfire of the Damned is an expensive Simoon that has the ability to Comet Storm your opponent. Once again, this assumes that I have enough mana to kill your creatures, that you have creatures (otherwise it's a glorified Fireball), that I'm not afraid of responses (Mana Leak, Divine Deflection, etc.), and that I'm ok with using all of my mana on my draw step to set you back.
I don't believe in any way that these cards are broken. I believe that many people go into "The sky is falling" mode whenever something crazy or new comes around. But I trust Wizards, and I believe that they did enough research to ensure that the game doesn't become a silly game of back and forth luck-topdecks. The game still requires skill, and I'm sure the professionals will continue to perform as such. The advent of Miracles won't cause an uprising of incredibly lucky rookies that just always draw the exactly right card.
Miracle is a new, interesting mechanic. I don't believe it's a broken mechanic, because the timing restrictions and the potential for very poor opening hands miracles create within your decks. I hope that further play will impress upon you the concept of variance. Cheap things are great and sometimes gamebreaking, but with Miracle the bar requires you to have use (and mana) for the cheap thing the exact moment you draw it. I believe that requirement is restrictive enough that you won't see a "miracle only" standard.
Very well said and I agree with it 100%.
Having said that, there are still going to be people who hate it. If enough people hate it and make their hate public to the right people (WotC) this may very well be the last time we see these cards.
How many mechanics have we had that were one shot deals that never came back?
Don't be surprised if this one joins the list if for no other reason than enough people crying out that it's unfair and makes the game a lucksack unfair thing to play.
Just imagine:
"I gave it a try, Its dumb, I hate it. Really, you flip the best card in your deck, and then it becomes 50% better or more?! This is a skill based game, with people who are working to make the most well oiled machines of decks, and getting foiled by a bs huntmaster of the fells is freakin stupid and annoying. This happens to me almost every game I play now, I just want to kill something.
Agree disagree?"
Hmm... vaguely familiar.
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A lot of the people who vocally spoke out against DFCs are now playing Delver.
The irony isn't lost on me.
I was under the impression that WotC just changed mechanics for variety and a fresh feeling to the game, not a bunch of people talking about how the mechanic was overpowered.
Though now that I think about it, making it so every land you draw all of the sudden became useful was too powerful. Yeah, I don't think Retrace or Landfall will happen again.
Speaking of overpowered mechanics, Flying keeps making my opponent's lethal damage get over my 6/6 Giant and his army of Zombies... You'd think the zombies could make a ladder or something, but no. I keep dying to birds and sphinxes. Flying is OP.
Seriously though, the only time I've heard of wizards removing a mechanic because of complaints was Banding (which wasn't half as confusing as it was made out to be, though I understand the frustration).
Landfall was actually one of wizards and specifically MaRo's favorite mechanics. It can be viewed as one of there tools that "revitalized" magic since the whole magic boom started after zendikar was released. The biggest appeal of it was that it rewarded you for doing something that you naturally do, ergo people loved it.
Mechanics that wizards hates include dredge and storm since they create decks where you're not playing magic, your playing some weird solitaire variant where you try to ignore your opponent until you get there.
Those are the mechanics that wizards doesn't want to see prosper. Miracle will probably be a home run if I have to bet on it.
Also, your in Lawton? What game store do you play at? I'm at Tinker/midwest city.
That's just the trend I've noticed from playing since Odyssey block.
Standard
Modern
Living End Combo
Legacy
T.E.S.
TezzAffinity
Combo Elves
Belcher
Forgemaster Combo
High Tide
Solidarity
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Burn
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EDH/Commander
Olivia Voldaren
Sigarda, Host of Herons
Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer
Jhoira of the Ghitu
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Edric, Spymaster of Trest
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
Rosheen Meanderer
Ghost Council of Orzhova
Vela the Night-Clad
The sky isn't falling, these cards aren't broken. But that doesn't make miracle a good mechanic. It still has a negative impact on the game IMO. Cycling, kicker, trample, flying these are the types of this that add layers of strategy to the game. Miracle adds did i draw the perfect card at the perfect time element to the game.
Landfall was pretty and miss. It was sweet in constructed with the ability to play a bunch of fetchlands. But in limited it most people hated it.
Flame infraction. - Blinking Spirit
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
If you're complaining about playing around sweepers, then it's strictly a problem with your game. Learn to play better, that mitigates Terminus. It never ever changes, a sweeper doesn't change anything, it doesn't win you the game.
But sure, think that Terminus is the same power level of Black Lotus.
He stated that Terminus is no where near as powerful as Black lotus. He also made a few good points as to why a luck sack one mana board sweeper is frustrating and a bad mechanic. The ability to wipe a board on turn 5 and then throw a Sorin into play is bonkers if you're the one casting it and infuriating if you're the one on the other end of it. Reminds me of Dark Hole in Yugioh or a surprise Sunscour when they have a huge hand (Though Sunscour is really awful in comparison to Terminus.)
Miracles aren't that great if you hard cast them and a few of them are unplayable. But, if you're lucky enough to rip one off the ropes it's a devastating impact almost every time past turn three. I doubt Commons hates it for its power level but actually because of it's crappy and luck based design.
By: ol MISAKA lo
Cockatrice: Infallible
It's no worse than hexproof or cavern, or turn 2 sword. Now players using sweepers can get lucky instead of just die to a giant board on turn 3, what a shame?
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The argument I made earlier which nobody seemed to address is that even when you miracle at least certain cards, it's still a skill test. Turns 2/6(random numbers) miracling terminus can be awesome, but it's only going to be good against certain matchups and not worth it other times.
For the situations when your opponent tanks while drawing there card, this gives away information so it's going to be a skill to think about your possible draws before ripping your card for the turn. Sometimes there will be devastation, but I'm willing to bet that the mechanic is fine in practice and in theory, I think it makes the game a lot more interesting(though the green miracle cards are aweful in limited as far as "fun" goes).
This doesn't even take into account the fact that you still have to build decks with the mechanic in mind. One of the greatest tools to a magic player in constructed is preparation, and learning how to get the optimal max/mins on your miracles in deckbuilding is great imo. This is a mechanic that rewards good deckbuilding more than most. I doubt after the whole delver/snapcaster mistake that wizards would introduce miracle without having heavily tested the mechanic.
They are a company that is number one interested in making money because that's what businesses due, but after how horribly they failed with the initial proposal for OP and than immediately fixing it after the community outcry, it's pretty easy to see that they do care about the competitive community and therefore cares about what we like to play with at the competitive level. I support miracle 100%
This is 100% true. People that are caught up in the Halo vs. Call of Duty war don't seem to understand this either (personally, I think Halo is a much better game, but I like both, and they are just games. I also buy them for campaign, not multiplayer, which are both done better in Halo).
Back on topic, I like Miracle (even if some of the cards they printed with it are a little cheap), and since Magic (and pretty much any other card game) is alot more luck than skill (more of the skill is just in properly building a good deck than in actually playing the game), it doesn't really change the game much, especially to a relatively new player like myself (I have been playing since just after Mirrodin Besieged was released) or anyone that is starting out with this block or the Scars of Mirrodin Block.
Give people time to actually play with the cards, and just like the transform mechanic, over time, more and more people will like and use it
"Mind what people do, not only what they say, for deeds will betray a lie" - Wizard's Fifth Rule
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Cockatrice username: taj1994
Its a freaking card game, its going to have a deal of luck!
I dont want to know how many times I have managed to kill myself with my ANT deck because i get the crappy luck of revealing my only other Ad Nauseum When im down to 5 life trying to get tendrils. I've lost MANY games with dredge because you just get bad luck and dredge nothing but draw cards and not a single dredger/Bridge/Narcomeaba.
Additionally, the miracles add an extra level of intricacy into the game, especially for UB or UW. You ponder, notice a terminus say, and you have to think, do i want to draw this during their turn, or do i want to draw it during mine, or maybe I would rather just not draw it at all. With Ponder and The scry owl, you can build your deck to make miracle trigger when you want it to trigger. Which, I do believe, is called skill and experience. Just grow up -.-
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
Did you just compare MTG to athletics and muscle memory?
LMAO.
Cracks me up, but awful analogy.
On topic, Miracle is cool. it adds another layer of complexity onto the game. if you lost to a "luckily drawn terminus" or something, it's just part of the game now. Just like you can lose to a "luckily drawn card X"
That layer being? You could always "Luckily draw a card" nothing has changed in the respect. However now when you "luckily draw a card" it can do something broken. Luck doesn't = Complexity.
Flame infraction. - Blinking Spirit
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
what's broken? a lucky board wipe? please... There are WAY more broken cards in standard already. Angels? white sun does that too... at instant speed. Take an extra turn? If you're winning you'll probably win without this. if you're losing it's more likely to read untap and draw another card. Reforge? possibly the most broken of the whole set and it's only discounted 2 and still gives your opponents a full set of cards and the first full untap.
Explain to me how these cards are worse than top decking any card x that could win you the game?