I'm working on something similar. How good do you think Strangleroot Geist is with 8 mana dorks? Would it be better to just skip to 3cmc cards instead?
I think you need them because of the amount of decks in the current meta that are going to be killing your t1 dork, otherwise I would be all for skipping to 3. Gut shot, tragic slip and mortarpod hurt
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Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn Standard BUG BUG Control BUG GW GW Aggro GW
What about Restoration Angel? That's a card I'm looking at including in my list.
EDIT: I saw you thought about it too. I think it looks strong. It lets you create golems, attach with Hero and then blink it after the attack trigger, and act as a pseudo-counter. I think it gets a lot better with Fiend Hunter and Phyrexian Metamorph though, so maybe your list wouldn't optimally use it.
Yea, it certainly works well with Blade Splicer and Strangleroot Geist, but I'm just not sure if it is worth taking out Heros or Garruks to fit them in.
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Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn Standard BUG BUG Control BUG GW GW Aggro GW
I just typed up my entire list and then hit some random button on my keyboard that plunged me several pages back into my browser. It is miserable.
Anyway, I'm cautiously a fan of Silverblade Paladin here. Geist may be better, especially since paladin is redundant with crusader, but giving Hero doublestrike seems great. Also, Sigarda is getting chump blocked constantly in testing. Not sure about her.
And please, please - can somebody explain to me why Garruk, Primal Hunter is good here? Is it because of the draw? This deck has such consistency that how do you not already have a copy of what you're digging for? Why would you ever spend a turn dropping him when you could drop Gideon Jura instead?
That is a good manabase. Mainly that's what I wanted to say.
I'm so used to people not using Cavern right.. I like your list. I just think you need 1 more land. I wouldn't always recommend it but the way dorks are getting hated out, I think it's fair trade. Connecting with Dork + Sword happens a lot less these days. Also you are heavy on your 5's. The numbers are tight enough I might just play those odds, but a Sword for a Gavony doesn't seem unreasonable.
I don't see the big deal with Restoration Angel in Aggro decks. I guess when you go into planeswalker mode on the defense it has more value. But bouncing out a Blade Splicer while decent is still marginal play for a 4 drop.
Beyond that I think I'd only play Champion if I had GSZ.. but if I ran GSZ I would probably make the deck differently. You could cut down your numbers of stuff like Sigarda and maybe even Geist to make room, but you are effectively turning some number of them into their CMC+1. Raising your curve and definitely requiring the 25th land now. I will say it is great in creature mirrors though. Arguably even better than Swords.. Fetching out a Champion after having played a Hero, on attack makes Champion a 3/3.. meaning your Hero isn't being blocked by that Huntmaster of the Fells.. If not dealt with then and there.. Your team is getting through even a flipped Huntmaster next turn... apply the same to Lingering Soul Tokens, with Intangible Virtue etc.. any low removal deck this makes Hero into magical Christmas land.. I mean even if the next turn they play a Titan. As long as you play a creature or tick up that Gavony after Hero attacks the 2nd time due to the Battle cry your 2nd strike will go through a Titan and easily be GG (Champion is a 7/6 after declare attacks). Sort of different deck and strategy though I suppose.
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Current Decks: GWUKnightfall Modern UWTempo Legacy UGRBurning Wish Cobra Vintage
Do not play Sigarda, Lingerin Souls are everywhere. Especially 3? eh? I don't think she is going to see much play.
She is there mainly as a superb sword carrier. It may be worth going down to 2 though.
As for Primal Hunter, he is pretty much just there for drawing a whole stack of cards when you are running out of fuel. He is another card that may be better as a land or another blade splicer.
And Ryan, yea I agree with pretty well all your points. The 3rd gavony would probably be a good idea. I think champion would have to be a 2-of that you can GSZ for in here, and yea it wouldn't quite fit the deck due to all of the white creatures. I don't know, maybe she would work as a 2 of even without GSZ, it needs testing. Running a full 4 champions seems like too much since they suck in multiples.
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Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn Standard BUG BUG Control BUG GW GW Aggro GW
Lambholt is really slow and vulnerable to vapor snags, but if you can slap a Destiny on her you're in business. The thing is, you might as well as just slap that same destiny on a hero or crusader instead. I'm not sold.
Lambholt is really slow and vulnerable to vapor snags, but if you can slap a Destiny on her you're in business. The thing is, you might as well as just slap that same destiny on a hero or crusader instead. I'm not sold.
Very true. She seems fairly situational, I think I would rather have more creatures that are threats on their own in here. She seems like she would be a lot more deadly in a deck with Wolf Run, or perhaps in matchups where you aren't afraid of wrath effects and can just dump your whole hand on to the board.
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Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn Standard BUG BUG Control BUG GW GW Aggro GW
Very true. She seems fairly situational, I think I would rather have more creatures that are threats on their own in here. She seems like she would be a lot more deadly in a deck with Wolf Run, or perhaps in matchups where you aren't afraid of wrath effects and can just dump your whole hand on to the board.
Which are...what exactly? Mad sweepers in the meta right now. Even delver likes DoJ.
Very true. She seems fairly situational, I think I would rather have more creatures that are threats on their own in here. She seems like she would be a lot more deadly in a deck with Wolf Run, or perhaps in matchups where you aren't afraid of wrath effects and can just dump your whole hand on to the board.
Or in a situation where it's surgical. I ran 2, cut to 1.. with GSZ. It is not good against Delver or control really.. but then again GW has always had issues with Delver. Hero of Bladehold isn't good against Snag either.. nor Bladesplicer unless you are doing something with the 1/1.. In a different non-vapor snag metagame I think 2 would be a decent number.
In the right situation it's like a fetchable pump spell.. People are viewing the spell wrong. If you play it to have another body and extend out on the board it's pretty weak often outside of creature mirrors/token decks.. there are enough of them that it's ok if you get it early in your hand and play it out. Playing it to put a pump on it seems reasonable and atleast redeemable late game aspect. However, as a fetchable soulbond card with Hero of Bladehold it's very powerful. If they have the removal, they remove the Hero don't they? Obviously like soulbond you open yourself for 2 for 1's. But against decks that have trouble with hero they will usually spread out on board to cause board stalls.
It's a lot like Bellowing Tanglewurm here. It's cheaper and a bit narrower, but it too can become a threat on it's own. I don't think it's a good enough reason to run GSZ, but if you already are it's sort of too good to pass up in a lot of matchups.
Alright, maybe that was a stretch, but it's certainly happened to me from time to time. If we agree that delver typically shuns sweepers, it might be the only deck. Zombies, control, humans, wolf run, and even goblins post-sideboard run something.
Alright, maybe that was a stretch, but it's certainly happened to me from time to time. If we agree that delver typically shuns sweepers, it might be the only deck. Zombies, control, humans, wolf run, and even goblins post-sideboard run something.
....Goblins? And humans don't run sweepers, they are even more afraid of it than this deck is. Neither does RG Aggro, as far as I know.
Back on topic, Champion of Lambholt just seems to slow without a pump spell and no GSZ to search her up. I think it's a great card that will see play, but just a bit to narrow here. Maybe sideboard worthy for aggro mirrors. I can definitely see her showing up in some sort of monogreen or humans list.
....Goblins? And humans don't run sweepers, they are even more afraid of it than this deck is. Neither does RG Aggro, as far as I know.
Back on topic, Champion of Lambholt just seems to slow without a pump spell and no GSZ to search her up. I think it's a great card that will see play, but just a bit to narrow here. Maybe sideboard worthy for aggro mirrors. I can definitely see her showing up in some sort of monogreen or humans list.
One last post on this, just so I don't all credibility, but Goblins runs Slagstorm.
I built a green white aggro deck using battle cry as an effective way to boost my creatures quickly and efficiently. I'm currently using signal pests, accorder palladins and hero of bladehold as the battlecry. put in four green suns that work extremely well to go get a quick fighter in strangleroot geist. I also use mirran crusader, three memnites, silverblade palladin, and two angelic destiny's as my bomb. It's been working really fast and doing quite well. seven control spells in three o-rings and four beast withins. you can also use beast within to kill your own creature if the other person is already gonna kill it or try to exile it with pillar of flame.
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Birds of Paradise
Creatures
2 Blade Splicer
4 Hero of Bladehold
4 Mirran Crusader
3 Sigarda, Host of Herons
4 Strangleroot Geist
2 Garruk Relentless
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
2 Gideon Jura
Removal
2 Oblivion Ring
Swords
4 Sword of War and Peace
Lands
2 Cavern of Souls
7 Forest
2 Gavony Township
5 Plains
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Sunpetal Grove
Any suggestions? What do you guys think of Champion of Lambholt or Restoration Angel in this deck? Thanks for any help!
Standard
BUG BUG Control BUG
GW GW Aggro GW
Standard
BUG BUG Control BUG
GW GW Aggro GW
EDIT: I saw you thought about it too. I think it looks strong. It lets you create golems, attach with Hero and then blink it after the attack trigger, and act as a pseudo-counter. I think it gets a lot better with Fiend Hunter and Phyrexian Metamorph though, so maybe your list wouldn't optimally use it.
Standard
BUG BUG Control BUG
GW GW Aggro GW
Anyway, I'm cautiously a fan of Silverblade Paladin here. Geist may be better, especially since paladin is redundant with crusader, but giving Hero doublestrike seems great. Also, Sigarda is getting chump blocked constantly in testing. Not sure about her.
And please, please - can somebody explain to me why Garruk, Primal Hunter is good here? Is it because of the draw? This deck has such consistency that how do you not already have a copy of what you're digging for? Why would you ever spend a turn dropping him when you could drop Gideon Jura instead?
I'm so used to people not using Cavern right.. I like your list. I just think you need 1 more land. I wouldn't always recommend it but the way dorks are getting hated out, I think it's fair trade. Connecting with Dork + Sword happens a lot less these days. Also you are heavy on your 5's. The numbers are tight enough I might just play those odds, but a Sword for a Gavony doesn't seem unreasonable.
I don't see the big deal with Restoration Angel in Aggro decks. I guess when you go into planeswalker mode on the defense it has more value. But bouncing out a Blade Splicer while decent is still marginal play for a 4 drop.
Beyond that I think I'd only play Champion if I had GSZ.. but if I ran GSZ I would probably make the deck differently. You could cut down your numbers of stuff like Sigarda and maybe even Geist to make room, but you are effectively turning some number of them into their CMC+1. Raising your curve and definitely requiring the 25th land now. I will say it is great in creature mirrors though. Arguably even better than Swords.. Fetching out a Champion after having played a Hero, on attack makes Champion a 3/3.. meaning your Hero isn't being blocked by that Huntmaster of the Fells.. If not dealt with then and there.. Your team is getting through even a flipped Huntmaster next turn... apply the same to Lingering Soul Tokens, with Intangible Virtue etc.. any low removal deck this makes Hero into magical Christmas land.. I mean even if the next turn they play a Titan. As long as you play a creature or tick up that Gavony after Hero attacks the 2nd time due to the Battle cry your 2nd strike will go through a Titan and easily be GG (Champion is a 7/6 after declare attacks). Sort of different deck and strategy though I suppose.
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
She is there mainly as a superb sword carrier. It may be worth going down to 2 though.
As for Primal Hunter, he is pretty much just there for drawing a whole stack of cards when you are running out of fuel. He is another card that may be better as a land or another blade splicer.
And Ryan, yea I agree with pretty well all your points. The 3rd gavony would probably be a good idea. I think champion would have to be a 2-of that you can GSZ for in here, and yea it wouldn't quite fit the deck due to all of the white creatures. I don't know, maybe she would work as a 2 of even without GSZ, it needs testing. Running a full 4 champions seems like too much since they suck in multiples.
Standard
BUG BUG Control BUG
GW GW Aggro GW
Very true. She seems fairly situational, I think I would rather have more creatures that are threats on their own in here. She seems like she would be a lot more deadly in a deck with Wolf Run, or perhaps in matchups where you aren't afraid of wrath effects and can just dump your whole hand on to the board.
Standard
BUG BUG Control BUG
GW GW Aggro GW
Which are...what exactly? Mad sweepers in the meta right now. Even delver likes DoJ.
Or in a situation where it's surgical. I ran 2, cut to 1.. with GSZ. It is not good against Delver or control really.. but then again GW has always had issues with Delver. Hero of Bladehold isn't good against Snag either.. nor Bladesplicer unless you are doing something with the 1/1.. In a different non-vapor snag metagame I think 2 would be a decent number.
In the right situation it's like a fetchable pump spell.. People are viewing the spell wrong. If you play it to have another body and extend out on the board it's pretty weak often outside of creature mirrors/token decks.. there are enough of them that it's ok if you get it early in your hand and play it out. Playing it to put a pump on it seems reasonable and atleast redeemable late game aspect. However, as a fetchable soulbond card with Hero of Bladehold it's very powerful. If they have the removal, they remove the Hero don't they? Obviously like soulbond you open yourself for 2 for 1's. But against decks that have trouble with hero they will usually spread out on board to cause board stalls.
It's a lot like Bellowing Tanglewurm here. It's cheaper and a bit narrower, but it too can become a threat on it's own. I don't think it's a good enough reason to run GSZ, but if you already are it's sort of too good to pass up in a lot of matchups.
What? Maybe I missed the memo..
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
Alright, maybe that was a stretch, but it's certainly happened to me from time to time. If we agree that delver typically shuns sweepers, it might be the only deck. Zombies, control, humans, wolf run, and even goblins post-sideboard run something.
....Goblins? And humans don't run sweepers, they are even more afraid of it than this deck is. Neither does RG Aggro, as far as I know.
Back on topic, Champion of Lambholt just seems to slow without a pump spell and no GSZ to search her up. I think it's a great card that will see play, but just a bit to narrow here. Maybe sideboard worthy for aggro mirrors. I can definitely see her showing up in some sort of monogreen or humans list.
Standard
BUG BUG Control BUG
GW GW Aggro GW
One last post on this, just so I don't all credibility, but Goblins runs Slagstorm.
And yeah, I think Lambholt works best in a GW humans/tokens list with Champion of the Parish, Gather the Townsfolk, Increasing Devotion, etc. Not so much here.
I meant more along the lines of.... goblins is a deck?
Standard
BUG BUG Control BUG
GW GW Aggro GW
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Mirran Crusader
3 Silverblade Paladin
2 Hero of Bladehold
2 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Wolfir Silverheart
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Garruk Relentless
2 Overrun
2 Sword of War and Peace
2 Mortarpod
1 Gideon Jura
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Sunpetal Grove
3 Gavony Township
7 Forest
6 Plains
Hell yeah it is. Someone just took 1st at a TGC tourny with Goblins this week
Standard
BUG BUG Control BUG
GW GW Aggro GW