Well, Avacyn Restored looks pretty underwhelming for Competitive play. I wanted to try something different then the usual decks from the metagame, so I thought of Infect. Mono-Black Infect, in particular, got a very cool new tool in Avacyn Restored.
What is this tool I speak of? This is it.
What's so fantastic about this card? It's a cheap, black pump spell. Very similar to Virulent Swipe from Rise of the Eldrazi, which was present in several Infect deck lists. While Virulent Swipe gives Deathtouch, Predator's Gambit is a permanent boost, gives an extra point in Toughness and can also grant Intimidate if the creature is a loner.
So? What do you think? (By the way, I cannot post in the thread in Competitive\Developping. You may copy-paste this post if you feel like discussing it there)
Put some Whispering Spectre in there. That card's really good. At worst, it's a slightly more expensive Plague Stinger. However, making them discard 3-4 cards turn 4 is devastating for control. Ichor Rats doesn't really deserve a place in this deck. I've tried him before, but the one poison counter seldom makes the difference. If you going the solitary creature route, I'd suggest adding in something like Contagion Clasp. That card on its own can win games.
Being bad vs 1 card in 1 deck doesn't make it a bad card overall.
It's great on crusader and theres a lot of decks in the format that few to no ways to deal with crusader (humans, r/g ramp, r/g aggro, rdw, tokens, etc etc).
Giving Vatmothers, Plague Stingers, and Whispering Specters intimidate is pretty awesome too.
Again, being bad vs 1 card in 1 deck doesn't outweigh all it's positives. It's pretty nasty vs Delver too if you can bait out/steal their snags (distress, liliana).
Enchantment based infect rather than the normal artefact equipment based infect.
I don't like Predators gambit because it is an aura and you lose it when your creature dies... I was using Dark favor in my infect deck for awhile but removed it for the all important Livewire lash.
It would be worth considering running the Loner enchantments. infect decks don't actually swarm the board much due to over costed creatures. you could go mono black control, loner enchantments + skithyx.
I have to test it once the new set is loaded to my online testing program.
I don't like Predators gambit because it is an aura and you lose it when your creature dies... I was using Dark favor in my infect deck for awhile but removed it for the all important Livewire lash.
Dark Favor doesn't give evasion. Predator's Gambit intimidate is extremely significant in this format.
Unless you're playing against Zombies (which seems to be significantly less prevalent in the last couple weeks, and they gain nothing from AVR), almost every deck in the format is going to struggle vs intimidate black creatures.
I would like to point out I did notice all the good boosts from Gx Infect. But I wanted to develop the most viable of the Infect decks: Bx. Sure, Wild Defiance can be bonkers, but (B/G) has a terrible mana-base (every enemy-pairs are currently unreliable. Only a MINOR SPLASH is acceptable). Sure, give it a shot, but it's not reliable and you will more often than not be sad that B and G share so few land. I'm not saying BG Infect is bad in general, but the mana-base is and it is really, REALLY frustrating.
In my opinion, MB Control Infect and UB Tempo Infect are the best Infect decks available. Maybe MG Aggro Infect too.
I agree, BG infect can only work with a minimal amount of G, which in the deck I am running is only needed for Titanic Growth and Ranger's Guile.
I think the problem with mono B infect is it lacks utility and really needs a splash of U or G. I was hoping that something like Dispel would be printed in the set, which is why I have stuck with Ranger's Guile. Although Turn Aside could be worth considering as a cheap equivalent in a BU build.
Yeah a minor Green splash could be okay, I guess. I haven't tried it much though. However, the only way I could see a Green splash work would be in a Wb Tokens style: BARELY enough B to activate one specific spell (Lingering Souls). Your idea of Titanic Growth and Ranger's Guile is pretty good, I'll test it once I get my hands on the BG duals (if I get my hands on them someday, of course).
Sorry? I mean, AVR may be absolute **** in limited, but is packed full of constructed-oriented spells...
This is not a thread to discuss this kind of subject. You can private message me if you really, REALLY feel like discussing it with me, but otherwise keep this outside of the thread. This post didn't bring any feedback regarding the archetype.
Ok, I do not know how long most people who have posted in this thread have been playing, but you guys need to seriously stop and consider the consequences of running cards like Predator's Gambit.
First off, it is an Aura, which sets you up for a 2-for-1 every time. And this is not a maybe thing, this is 9 times out of 10. Any time someone sees a threat, they remove it. Secondly, the card takes a space that is better used elsewhere. There are a ton more cards I would rather draw than this. If you want to use it, toss it into the sideboard to test out. Finally, and this is a big one, the creature only has Intimidate if you control just that one creature. That is never a good trade off, unless the creature is Skittles.
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Exaggerate much? Ok let me stick my predator's gambit on a crusader and watch humans, rdw, rg ramp, and r/g aggro remove it 9 out of 10 times lol...
And infect usually runs between 12-15 creatures. It's not like the game plan is to swarm the board. The intimidate will be significant very often.
Funny, because I do not run into RDW, Humans, or decks that use primarily Red cards in general as often as I do decks that run Blue and/or Black. And as for R/G decks, last I checked, Beast Within is still legal, and still used. As for the other colors, Vapor Snag exists, as do most other removals. And lets not forget the removal card available to all decks, Dismember.
If you chose to build around Predator's Gambit, then that is your choice, but the card seems too much like a gimmick.
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What is this tool I speak of? This is it.
What's so fantastic about this card? It's a cheap, black pump spell. Very similar to Virulent Swipe from Rise of the Eldrazi, which was present in several Infect deck lists. While Virulent Swipe gives Deathtouch, Predator's Gambit is a permanent boost, gives an extra point in Toughness and can also grant Intimidate if the creature is a loner.
Here's a prototype deck list:
4 Plague Stinger
3 Necropede
4 Phyrexian Crusader
3 Ichor Rats
4 Lashwrithe
3 Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Predator's Gambit
3 Virulent Wound
2 Undying Evil
2 Distress
2 Black Sun's Zenith
18 Swamp
4 Inkmoth Nexus
So? What do you think? (By the way, I cannot post in the thread in Competitive\Developping. You may copy-paste this post if you feel like discussing it there)
10 Swamp
6 Forest
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Inkmoth Nexus
Creatures
4 Necropede
4 Ichorclaw Myr
4 Plague Stinger
4 Phyrexian Crusader
4 Titanic Growth
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Predator's Gambit
4 Ranger's Guile
Removal
2 Go for the Throat
2 Doom Blade
2 Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Sever the Bloodline
2 Autumn's Veil
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Naturalize
While Gambit will make this deck a bit more powerful it doesn't address any of it's weaknesses. Like resolved Gideon Jura's.
It's great on crusader and theres a lot of decks in the format that few to no ways to deal with crusader (humans, r/g ramp, r/g aggro, rdw, tokens, etc etc).
Giving Vatmothers, Plague Stingers, and Whispering Specters intimidate is pretty awesome too.
Again, being bad vs 1 card in 1 deck doesn't outweigh all it's positives. It's pretty nasty vs Delver too if you can bait out/steal their snags (distress, liliana).
4 Plague Stinger
4 Phyrexia Crusader
4 Blighted Agent
SPELLS (27)
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Predator's Gambit
4 Virulent Wound
4 Ponder
3 Mana Leak
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Despise
2 Undying Evil
2 Livewire Lash
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Island
5 Swamp
Worth more testing imo.
Big thanks to Rivenor for the sig!
Another enchantment that caught my eye particularly for the B/G infect is Bower passage I think it is underrated.
Plauge stinger is now unblockable, whisphering spector is now unblockable!. Reach is not very common.
Enchantment based infect rather than the normal artefact equipment based infect.
I don't like Predators gambit because it is an aura and you lose it when your creature dies... I was using Dark favor in my infect deck for awhile but removed it for the all important Livewire lash.
It would be worth considering running the Loner enchantments. infect decks don't actually swarm the board much due to over costed creatures. you could go mono black control, loner enchantments + skithyx.
I have to test it once the new set is loaded to my online testing program.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Dark Favor doesn't give evasion. Predator's Gambit intimidate is extremely significant in this format.
Unless you're playing against Zombies (which seems to be significantly less prevalent in the last couple weeks, and they gain nothing from AVR), almost every deck in the format is going to struggle vs intimidate black creatures.
Running G in a B infect deck, gives it the ability to smile at Vapor Snag with Ranger's Guile.
That will be a staple in many Gx infect decks for sure.
And intimidate on an artifact infector isn't even blockable by zombies.
Agreed, I have had enough of flying into a wall of vigilant spirit tokens.
In my opinion, MB Control Infect and UB Tempo Infect are the best Infect decks available. Maybe MG Aggro Infect too.
I think the problem with mono B infect is it lacks utility and really needs a splash of U or G. I was hoping that something like Dispel would be printed in the set, which is why I have stuck with Ranger's Guile. Although Turn Aside could be worth considering as a cheap equivalent in a BU build.
This is not a thread to discuss this kind of subject. You can private message me if you really, REALLY feel like discussing it with me, but otherwise keep this outside of the thread. This post didn't bring any feedback regarding the archetype.
First off, it is an Aura, which sets you up for a 2-for-1 every time. And this is not a maybe thing, this is 9 times out of 10. Any time someone sees a threat, they remove it. Secondly, the card takes a space that is better used elsewhere. There are a ton more cards I would rather draw than this. If you want to use it, toss it into the sideboard to test out. Finally, and this is a big one, the creature only has Intimidate if you control just that one creature. That is never a good trade off, unless the creature is Skittles.
Currently Running:
Nothing, I have just gotten back after a long hiatus, and am just now starting to rebuild my collection.
Exaggerate much? Ok let me stick my predator's gambit on a crusader and watch humans, rdw, rg ramp, and r/g aggro remove it 9 out of 10 times lol...
And infect usually runs between 12-15 creatures. It's not like the game plan is to swarm the board. The intimidate will be significant very often.
Funny, because I do not run into RDW, Humans, or decks that use primarily Red cards in general as often as I do decks that run Blue and/or Black. And as for R/G decks, last I checked, Beast Within is still legal, and still used. As for the other colors, Vapor Snag exists, as do most other removals. And lets not forget the removal card available to all decks, Dismember.
If you chose to build around Predator's Gambit, then that is your choice, but the card seems too much like a gimmick.
Currently Running:
Nothing, I have just gotten back after a long hiatus, and am just now starting to rebuild my collection.