Hi everyone! I'm an experienced Esper Control player but have been testing/playing BW tokens since DA. The mana base I have for my Esper Control deck is very stable as I've been tweaking it and perfecting it throughout the last 5-6 months.
My question is; do you guys think that U as a splash has any place in a primarily BW token build? I know the mana base and colors will be fixed pretty good. However does it really bring anything to the table that the BW token builds could use? Just curious what your thoughts are.
EDIT:
After a bunch of the replies you guys have been giving me I've decided to share the decklist and ideas I had on the mana base. Here's the deck and data:
I'm going to be testing this through my playtest groups gauntlet this week. If you guys can too as well let's keep this deck tested and up to date. It's got a lot of potential with bringing down the "late game" potential to gigantic blowouts with the inclusion of SoWAP + Moorland Haunt. Recurring Ratchet Bombs + Mass sweepers can't overwhelm our recurring token effects, late game moorland haunt eot + sowap equip, Drogskol buffs and Bladehold bombs.
The U for now is only splashed for the singleton moorland haunt and 2x Captains. The reason I made "Solar Flare" continue to work when so many Solar Flare decks were failing at my FNM was because the 3rd color should remain a splash and only that. It's not good to be too greedy with color bases with 3 colors. Drogskol Captain is going to remain a 2 of for test purposes for now. Depending on how the testing goes I'll see if it's worth tweaking the mana for more U to play more Drogskols but right now the mana should flow really well with the colors we use.
I believe the deck synergy flows really well. Of course this is just theorycrafting. I'll test the deck this week.
- 11 White Sources come in t1 untapped. Only 1 less than the 2 color basic BW token mana base.
- 8 Black Sources. The same as the basic BW token mana base.
- 4 Scars only so less lands coming in tapped mid to late game.
- 9 plains and 2 swamps allow 11 sources for the 4x Isolated Chapel to come in untapped
- 9 plains allow 9 sources for the 2x Glacial Fortress to come in untapped. Note there is not a full playset of Glacial Fortress, only 2 to keep the mana base even more stable while maintaining the decent access for U later game for Moorland Haunt.
- 3 colorless lands only
- There are a total of 3 sources we will need blue for. 1x Moorland Haunt and 2x Drogskol Captain.
- There are a total of 6 sources we will need black for. 4x Lingering Souls (FB) and 2x Vault of the Archangel.
Hi everyone! I'm an experienced Esper Control player but have been testing/playing BW tokens since DA. The mana base I have for my Esper Control deck is very stable as I've been tweaking it and perfecting it throughout the last 5-6 months.
My question is; do you guys think that U as a splash has any place in a primarily BW token build? I know the mana base and colors will be fixed pretty good. However does it really bring anything to the table that the BW token builds could use? Just curious what your thoughts are.
I have been looking into different splash colors to see which would be the most help. Blue is the most promising imo. if you have a solid mana base I suggest playing it. It gives us access to both Drogskol Captain and Phantasmal Image which are the best cards the splash gives us, and are probably the only cards i'd put into the deck with it.
What cards are you considering playing with the splash?
I have been looking into different splash colors to see which would be the most help. Blue is the most promising imo. if you have a solid mana base I suggest playing it. It gives us access to both Drogskol Captain and Phantasmal Image which are the best cards the splash gives us, and are probably the only cards i'd put into the deck with it.
What cards are you considering playing with the splash?
To be honest I gave 0 thought into it other than I have a very stable mana base with my Esper Control deck that uses B as the primary splash. (Which is all the BW tokens uses it for primary for Sorin and FB on Lingering.)
I think that Drogskol alone could be worthy of the splash. The BW token deck I've been having the most success with so far has a lot of non-token creatures to complement the entire token side of the deck.
I run 4x Midnight Haunting and 4x Lingering Souls.
With the current suggestions from you guys... I can really see Drogskull + Moorland haunt, actually even just Moorland haunt alone, being an amazing splash for late game reach. (Especially if you have 2 SoWAP in your MB!)
To be honest I gave 0 thought into it other than I have a very stable mana base with my Esper Control deck that uses B as the primary splash. (Which is all the BW tokens uses it for primary for Sorin and FB on Lingering.)
I think that Drogskol alone could be worthy of the splash. The BW token deck I've been having the most success with so far has a lot of non-token creatures to complement the entire token side of the deck.
I run 4x Midnight Haunting and 4x Lingering Souls.
With the current suggestions from you guys... I can really see Drogskull + Moorland haunt, actually even just Moorland haunt alone, being an amazing splash for late game reach. (Especially if you have 2 SoWAP in your MB!)
Absolutely start playing 3 Hero of Bladehold. The best bomb our deck has that I have won so many games on the back of. I play 3 and it's the perfect amount. Does your deck play Gather? If you could post a list it would help out a lot in making suggestions. For the splash I'd remove the Splicers + 1 Haunting for the 4 Drogskol Captains. Getting rid of the splicers for a more evasive creature that buffs your other evasive creatures, seems like the best trade. Moorland haunt gets a bit sketch as it's more colorless land when we already have 3 vault and are running 3 colors.
I really really like this idea. The deck has much more distance than a traditional build and the drogskol captain protects your spirit tokens as well as adding in damage. Also the fact of being able to side in phantasmal image seems awesome.
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I like the thought, primarily for Captain/Image, and the idea that Feelings of Dread seems like it could be a REALLY good card in this meta. Being able to have it and its flashback seems brutal.
I like the thought, primarily for Captain/Image, and the idea that Feelings of Dread seems like it could be a REALLY good card in this meta. Being able to have it and its flashback seems brutal.
Delver matchup, Wolf Run, R/G Aggro. Delver it helps you win the tempo race and can protect you from swords/pike. Wolf Run, it stops titan triggers and Inkmoths. R/G Aggro, it shuts down their swords as well as keeping Huntmaster unflipped.
Been mulling around with the deck and I think actually that making the creatures not include U (drogskol) is the right choice. The consistency will be much better and will rely less on having a spirit + drog out.
Been mulling around with the deck and I think actually that making the creatures not include U (drogskol) is the right choice. The consistency will be much better and will rely less on having a spirit + drog out.
I really see no point in splashing blue for 1 Moorland Haunt. Especially as seeing as though our tokens dont even interact with the graveyard. Might as well just play W/B with swords.
Did you see my analysis on the mana base? It's pretty much the exact same and just as efficient as BW tokens standard mana base if not actually better than it.
Swords + Anthem Effects + Moorland Haunt (even as a 1 of) brings a lot of late game power that normally we run out of against multiple sweepers and recurring ratchet bombs.
Did you see my analysis on the mana base? It's pretty much the exact same and just as efficient as BW tokens standard mana base if not actually better than it.
Swords + Anthem Effects + Moorland Haunt (even as a 1 of) brings a lot of late game power that normally we run out of against multiple sweepers and recurring ratchet bombs.
But the fact is it's 1 moorland haunt. How many games, will you draw a single card? I dont know the exact probability but it seems pointless unless we had a way to fetch the haunt. i just don't think id see it enough to justify switching the whole mana base around just to play 1 copy of a card.
But the fact is it's 1 moorland haunt. How many games, will you draw a single card? I dont know the exact probability but it seems pointless unless we had a way to fetch the haunt. i just don't think id see it enough to justify switching the whole mana base around just to play 1 copy of a card.
Ok let's put the mana base aside; since through my analysis you can see that there is relatively no difference other than the tri-color mana base in fact is actually more stable with the assistance of the other duals that are opened up by U.
So then the only argument is you think a 1 of Moorland haunt that synergizes extremely well with the increased amount of played creatures and swords in the deck is bad because its a 1 of that can't be fetched? It doesn't matter that it's not drawn every single game...it doesn't need to be. A good card in a deck is a good card if it doesn't affect the consistency of the deck. It changes nothing about the deck in any negative way other than positive.
Your argument of switching the whole mana base around just to play 1 copy of a card is not even a valid argument. 1st, like already stated, the mana base is not hindered by the 3rd color, if anything the access to U's duals gives it more stability. 2nd off the only reason you would not do that is because of budget reasons and you can't afford to change the mana base because of the additional scars/duals you would need to purchase. 3rd, 1 Moorland Haunt synergizes so well with the cards in the entire deck that there is no reason to not play it. Added creatures that actually hit the GY over the token generators + the addition of a sword has only positive gains when a Moorland Haunt is added.
I'm not trying to start any argument but I wanted to pushback on your points when you choose not to change the mana base to a more stable mana base purely because of a card being a 1 of. Not to mention some of the points others have brought up with the addition of SB cards now that could be used because of the U.
Either way I will do some testing and I'll report back when I find out whether or not we should evolve the deck around more U. Who knows...maybe the Vaults may be even all changed to Moorland Haunts once the testing is done. I don't know.
is there a reason geist of saint traft wouldn't be used? I havn't seen it in any lists (but that could be the dyslexia kicking in).Swinging for 7-8 turn 4 with honor or virtue seems lulzy. Maybe I'm missing something though.
EDIT: It is even more fun if sorin its the field and makes an emblem. It's a miniHero of Bladehold essentialy.
Unfortunately, Geist, while powerful, synergizes poorly with the rest of the deck. The anthem effect is nice, but the token from Geist doesn't benefit from vigilance at all. Worse, if this deck has a flaw, it is that it is succeptible to board wipes giving them a 2-3 for one. This is also the primary weakness of Geist of St. Traft.
Compare to Hero of Bladehold, who, because of her higher toughness, resists red and black board wipes, as well as ratchet bomb.
Geist is a great card in decks that can be fought primarily with spot removal, or who rely on equip effects to resolve. We are neither so, while Geist is absurd in a lot of matchups, it's lackluster here.
That said, it could find a sideboard slot against some deck somewhere, I'm sure.
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Play tested the deck today with my partner. It was really good and the mana base held up real good considering it's 3 colors compared to the standard deck's mana base. I can honestly say now everyone should try out the mana base I made up in the OP if your going to want to try out a WBu build. It just flowed so smoothly with the low count of scars and higher count of duals.
Moorland haunt as a 1 of was perfect. The land worked perfectly. Every single time Haunt was drawn I had a blue and at least 1 creature in the GY to bring back as a medium sized flying evasive threat to finish my opponent. Having a Vault in those situations would not have helped me finish off my opponent or won me the game. We always have at least 1 or 2 Anthems and in the late game (when you should draw into Moorland haunt generally as a 1 of) your Spirit will be a 3/3 or bigger. This is usually enough to turn the tides in your favor to get in for the additional damage, especially if you can equip a sword.
Champion of the Parish was very underwhelming. Halfway through testing we swapped him out with 3x Shrines and 1x Rally of the Peasants. After the amazing blowouts that Rally brought we up'd it to 2 of.
Champion:
Yes he is an amazing blow out if you t2 Gather. However more often than not, hes a bear that does nothing to help you win the game when he doesn't "blow out." Even a t2 Anthem or Doomed Traveler to buff him isn't that great. A majority of the games I've tested with him today and our other play test sessions he just stayed a 1/1 for a while or maybe became a 2/2. Against any smart opponent with blockers or removal will not let him get threateningly big.
HOWEVER, the age old argument of "he demands removal though so your Hero get's through," is nothing but a myth brought on from decks he really explodes out of. (UW Humans) If he doesn't grow, which a majority of the time he just won't when you want to be playing your token game or Anthem game for big blowouts mid-game (remember were a mid range deck), then he is just ignored by my opponent.
Any smart player (my partner is a great player) just ignores him and he doesn't "demand" anything when he's a tiny bear that isn't growing. As the game goes on and you get more Intangible Virtues or buffers, you want to start playing token generators and you don't want to waste time playing non-evasive guys like more champions or gather when you have options like Midnight and Souls in your hand.
Shrine of the Loyal Legions:
This card is just awesome, especially early. Drawing this late game was not as great however neither is drawing a Champion. Lowering our t1 plays like the deck that went top 64 at GP Baltimore and going with Shrine helped out so much more than Champion for a majority of our games. With all our white spells this grows very fast. It was 100% of the time cracked for 4-5 tokens that were always 2/2 about on average 3 turns after I played it. (had a virtue by then)
The increase of UB Control and U/B colors in general makes this card even more playable since they have almost no good way to dealing with the card once it's resolved. I know we have a lot of 2 drops a lot but you just have to play smart and think mid game. What will get me more benefits next turn? 2 turns from now? Anthem or Shrine right now? This card really helps mid/late game like this deck is suppose to.
Rally the Peasants:
I tested this as a 2 of. I used this to beat UB Zombies, WRR Ravager, and RDW multiple times. This card was always there and I always wanted to play it. I know it's a little weird to compare this to Sorin but I'm going to do it anyways....
Sorins +1/+1 permanent is amazing. There's no doubt about that. However for it's "sorcery speed" play and non-explosiveness it always feels just too slow or like I would rather play another token generator, Rally the Peasants, leave mana up for Moorland Haunt at their EoT if I felt they were going to board wipe or Vault.
Reasoning: Tokens is a midrange deck. At least thats the way I feel it excels the most. Early game I'm chumping with Doomed Travelers or Gathers and playing Anthems when I can. Around mid game I blowup with Lingering Souls + FB or a huge swing with all my creatures + Rally or Hero of Bladehold. From our testing Rally proved extremely effective.
If there were any changes to the deck I would make other than the ones I already mentioned it would be -1 Gather (not as good w/o the 4x Champions) and +1 Shrine or Singleton Doomblade/GFTT/Dismember.
Conclusion: This deck runs very smoothly with the lands. Moorland Haunt is great. However, in the end, the removal of champion for a card that is better suited towards the way the meta is shifting (U/B) makes the Moorland Haunt weaker. Removing 4 creatures the deck would want to bring back (even though it's late game) makes it not as great. I still had a creature every time in the GY when I hit Moorland Haunt though and with the increase of UB zombies I may be testing Blade Splicer in the MB soon, we will see. With the current changes to the deck I would rather play the BWg version of the deck rather than BWu. If you keep in the Champions and they "work" for you, then I would highly suggest the BWu version I have in my OP. It's IMO much better than splashing green just to FB Ray of Revelation...
I'm only just looking into this deck atm, my first thoughts were splashing blue.
What about for card advantage/searching?
Ponder, Forbidden alch or something like that?
For more U I would probably need to rework the mana base to have more U sources.
If I did I would maybe consider ponder but not Alch or Think Twice as we are tapping out so often and rarely caring to leave mana open since we dont have counters. Most lists only run Midnight Haunting as their instant.
I was looking into potential cards for this deck idea last night, I want to make a W/B/U Spirt Tokens deck, I really like the 4x Drogskol Captains..... was looking at some of the other spirit cards but then it feels like i'm pulling away from the tokens and more into a W/U Spirt deck... then I'm not sure about Honor of the Pure, Intangible Virtue.
I'm thinking I will splash blue to run 4x Drogskol Captains + 2x Moorland Haunt, with most of my blue coming from U/B duals. Maybe Ponder. Although my concerns is that I won't have many creatures in the GY for Moorland Haunt.
Drogskol Captain will still benefit from Honor of the Pure correct?
Creature (7)
3x Hero of Bladehold
4x Champion of the Parish
This is how I am running the deck right now. I love the way this deck flows. Even though it works well I am always tinkering with it and right now I am thinking of dropping 1x FAF and maybe 1x Sorin, Lord of Innistrad and adding 2x Mirran Crusader in. I may start it off as a sideboard. But I am also liking Grand Abolisher and wondering where that can be added in. (and what needs to be taken out)
Okay I have to share my findings on the esper token archetype. I ordered a bunch of cards to build a bant tokens deck. But when only a few came in I decided to mold tokens and delver together. The token producers give you threats while helping you flip delver. Here is what I have been running for the past week or so.
Blue duals do not give you more stability. An UW dual land that might come into play tapped, when you dont need the blue mana, is just a worse plains. You dont have more white and black sources with duals, you have the same amount, just with the chance of having them come into play tapped.
Adding an extra color has NEVER made a manabase more consistent.
I can see another reason, which is simply to avoid awkward losses due to hands where all your mana comes into play tapped.
Sure, those hands might not happen all that often, but they will happen a lot more often than you drawing moorland haunt.
It synergizes well, sure, but that doesnt somehow make the reasons not to add it disappear. (that is, upping your chances of losing to awkward mana)
This ^
We do not have enough permanents to get consistent use out of the Moorland Haunt in my opinion.
I would LOVE to incorporate moorland haunt into the deck. Unfortunately, it simply makes the mana base too sketchy with a typical Wb list. The only way I see it working is by making the deck WUb, lightly splashing black for lingering souls.
Champion of the Parish needs to go if youre going to run the captain. Tribal lords do not belong in decks where half of your creatures arent in the tribe. Choose one or the other. However, dropping the champion costs you your primary target for the moorland. Another red flag.
Phantasmal Image is a highly appealing card alongside Moorland Haunt because it eliminates those pesky legendaries and responds well to control players late game.
After all the breaking down and adjustments you would have to do to accommodate the blue mana, you basically have a WUB spirit token deck, which was an archetype all in its own not too long ago.
TL;DR- The blue would be really nice, but the only way to make it consistent is to dip heavily into blue, making it a whole other deck.
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My question is; do you guys think that U as a splash has any place in a primarily BW token build? I know the mana base and colors will be fixed pretty good. However does it really bring anything to the table that the BW token builds could use? Just curious what your thoughts are.
EDIT:
After a bunch of the replies you guys have been giving me I've decided to share the decklist and ideas I had on the mana base. Here's the deck and data:
2x Sword of War and Peace
Creatures
3x Hero of Bladehold
4x Champion of the Parish
4x Doomed Traveler
2x Drogskol Captain
Enchantments
4x Honor of the Pure
2x Oblivion Ring
4x Intangible Virtue
2x Darkslick Shores
2x Seachrome Coast
2x Glacial Fortress
9x Plains
2x Swamp
4x Isolated Chapel
1x Moorland Haunt
1x Island
2x Vault of the Archangel
2x Midnight Haunting
4x Gather the Townsfolk
4x Lingering Souls
I'm going to be testing this through my playtest groups gauntlet this week. If you guys can too as well let's keep this deck tested and up to date. It's got a lot of potential with bringing down the "late game" potential to gigantic blowouts with the inclusion of SoWAP + Moorland Haunt. Recurring Ratchet Bombs + Mass sweepers can't overwhelm our recurring token effects, late game moorland haunt eot + sowap equip, Drogskol buffs and Bladehold bombs.
The U for now is only splashed for the singleton moorland haunt and 2x Captains. The reason I made "Solar Flare" continue to work when so many Solar Flare decks were failing at my FNM was because the 3rd color should remain a splash and only that. It's not good to be too greedy with color bases with 3 colors. Drogskol Captain is going to remain a 2 of for test purposes for now. Depending on how the testing goes I'll see if it's worth tweaking the mana for more U to play more Drogskols but right now the mana should flow really well with the colors we use.
I believe the deck synergy flows really well. Of course this is just theorycrafting. I'll test the deck this week.
Here is the mana data:
12 Plains
1 Shimmering Grotto
4 Swamp
3 Vault of the Archangel
2x Seachrome Coast
2x Glacial Fortress
9x Plains
2x Swamp
4x Isolated Chapel
1x Moorland Haunt
1x Island
2x Vault of the Archangel
W 17
U 7
B 8
Colorless 3
Scars 4
Duals 6
Basics 12
- 11 White Sources come in t1 untapped. Only 1 less than the 2 color basic BW token mana base.
- 8 Black Sources. The same as the basic BW token mana base.
- 4 Scars only so less lands coming in tapped mid to late game.
- 9 plains and 2 swamps allow 11 sources for the 4x Isolated Chapel to come in untapped
- 9 plains allow 9 sources for the 2x Glacial Fortress to come in untapped. Note there is not a full playset of Glacial Fortress, only 2 to keep the mana base even more stable while maintaining the decent access for U later game for Moorland Haunt.
- 3 colorless lands only
- There are a total of 3 sources we will need blue for. 1x Moorland Haunt and 2x Drogskol Captain.
- There are a total of 6 sources we will need black for. 4x Lingering Souls (FB) and 2x Vault of the Archangel.
I have been looking into different splash colors to see which would be the most help. Blue is the most promising imo. if you have a solid mana base I suggest playing it. It gives us access to both Drogskol Captain and Phantasmal Image which are the best cards the splash gives us, and are probably the only cards i'd put into the deck with it.
What cards are you considering playing with the splash?
Standard:
GBWAggressive Junk TokensGBW
"Some convictions are so strong that the world must break to accommodate them."
To be honest I gave 0 thought into it other than I have a very stable mana base with my Esper Control deck that uses B as the primary splash. (Which is all the BW tokens uses it for primary for Sorin and FB on Lingering.)
I think that Drogskol alone could be worthy of the splash. The BW token deck I've been having the most success with so far has a lot of non-token creatures to complement the entire token side of the deck.
Specifically:
4x Champion of the Parish
2x Hero of Bladehold (I want to test 3)
4x Doomed Traveler
3x Blade Splicer
I run 4x Midnight Haunting and 4x Lingering Souls.
With the current suggestions from you guys... I can really see Drogskull + Moorland haunt, actually even just Moorland haunt alone, being an amazing splash for late game reach. (Especially if you have 2 SoWAP in your MB!)
Absolutely start playing 3 Hero of Bladehold. The best bomb our deck has that I have won so many games on the back of. I play 3 and it's the perfect amount. Does your deck play Gather? If you could post a list it would help out a lot in making suggestions. For the splash I'd remove the Splicers + 1 Haunting for the 4 Drogskol Captains. Getting rid of the splicers for a more evasive creature that buffs your other evasive creatures, seems like the best trade. Moorland haunt gets a bit sketch as it's more colorless land when we already have 3 vault and are running 3 colors.
Standard:
GBWAggressive Junk TokensGBW
"Some convictions are so strong that the world must break to accommodate them."
As a couple of you guys have pointed out the U splash will open up decent SB cards as long as we don't go too crazy.
Check out my blog, Swing For Game!
tapa tapa tapa
what would u side it in against tho?
Delver matchup, Wolf Run, R/G Aggro. Delver it helps you win the tempo race and can protect you from swords/pike. Wolf Run, it stops titan triggers and Inkmoths. R/G Aggro, it shuts down their swords as well as keeping Huntmaster unflipped.
Check out my blog, Swing For Game!
Possibly like this:
2x Sword of War and Peace
Creatures
4x Hero of Bladehold
4x Champion of the Parish
4x Doomed Traveler
4x Honor of the Pure
2x Oblivion Ring
3x Intangible Virtue
2x Darkslick Shores
2x Seachrome Coast
2x Glacial Fortress
9x Plains
2x Swamp
4x Isolated Chapel
1x Moorland Haunt
1x Island
2x Vault of the Archangel
4x Midnight Haunting
4x Gather the Townsfolk
4x Lingering Souls
I really see no point in splashing blue for 1 Moorland Haunt. Especially as seeing as though our tokens dont even interact with the graveyard. Might as well just play W/B with swords.
Standard:
GBWAggressive Junk TokensGBW
"Some convictions are so strong that the world must break to accommodate them."
Swords + Anthem Effects + Moorland Haunt (even as a 1 of) brings a lot of late game power that normally we run out of against multiple sweepers and recurring ratchet bombs.
But the fact is it's 1 moorland haunt. How many games, will you draw a single card? I dont know the exact probability but it seems pointless unless we had a way to fetch the haunt. i just don't think id see it enough to justify switching the whole mana base around just to play 1 copy of a card.
Standard:
GBWAggressive Junk TokensGBW
"Some convictions are so strong that the world must break to accommodate them."
Ok let's put the mana base aside; since through my analysis you can see that there is relatively no difference other than the tri-color mana base in fact is actually more stable with the assistance of the other duals that are opened up by U.
So then the only argument is you think a 1 of Moorland haunt that synergizes extremely well with the increased amount of played creatures and swords in the deck is bad because its a 1 of that can't be fetched? It doesn't matter that it's not drawn every single game...it doesn't need to be. A good card in a deck is a good card if it doesn't affect the consistency of the deck. It changes nothing about the deck in any negative way other than positive.
Your argument of switching the whole mana base around just to play 1 copy of a card is not even a valid argument. 1st, like already stated, the mana base is not hindered by the 3rd color, if anything the access to U's duals gives it more stability. 2nd off the only reason you would not do that is because of budget reasons and you can't afford to change the mana base because of the additional scars/duals you would need to purchase. 3rd, 1 Moorland Haunt synergizes so well with the cards in the entire deck that there is no reason to not play it. Added creatures that actually hit the GY over the token generators + the addition of a sword has only positive gains when a Moorland Haunt is added.
I'm not trying to start any argument but I wanted to pushback on your points when you choose not to change the mana base to a more stable mana base purely because of a card being a 1 of. Not to mention some of the points others have brought up with the addition of SB cards now that could be used because of the U.
Either way I will do some testing and I'll report back when I find out whether or not we should evolve the deck around more U. Who knows...maybe the Vaults may be even all changed to Moorland Haunts once the testing is done. I don't know.
EDIT: It is even more fun if sorin its the field and makes an emblem. It's a miniHero of Bladehold essentialy.
GRAggroRG
Smouldering decay
Take your breath away
Millions of our years
In minutes disappears
Unfortunately, Geist, while powerful, synergizes poorly with the rest of the deck. The anthem effect is nice, but the token from Geist doesn't benefit from vigilance at all. Worse, if this deck has a flaw, it is that it is succeptible to board wipes giving them a 2-3 for one. This is also the primary weakness of Geist of St. Traft.
Compare to Hero of Bladehold, who, because of her higher toughness, resists red and black board wipes, as well as ratchet bomb.
Geist is a great card in decks that can be fought primarily with spot removal, or who rely on equip effects to resolve. We are neither so, while Geist is absurd in a lot of matchups, it's lackluster here.
That said, it could find a sideboard slot against some deck somewhere, I'm sure.
Hope you enjoy it!
Moorland haunt as a 1 of was perfect. The land worked perfectly. Every single time Haunt was drawn I had a blue and at least 1 creature in the GY to bring back as a medium sized flying evasive threat to finish my opponent. Having a Vault in those situations would not have helped me finish off my opponent or won me the game. We always have at least 1 or 2 Anthems and in the late game (when you should draw into Moorland haunt generally as a 1 of) your Spirit will be a 3/3 or bigger. This is usually enough to turn the tides in your favor to get in for the additional damage, especially if you can equip a sword.
Champion of the Parish was very underwhelming. Halfway through testing we swapped him out with 3x Shrines and 1x Rally of the Peasants. After the amazing blowouts that Rally brought we up'd it to 2 of.
Champion:
HOWEVER, the age old argument of "he demands removal though so your Hero get's through," is nothing but a myth brought on from decks he really explodes out of. (UW Humans) If he doesn't grow, which a majority of the time he just won't when you want to be playing your token game or Anthem game for big blowouts mid-game (remember were a mid range deck), then he is just ignored by my opponent.
Any smart player (my partner is a great player) just ignores him and he doesn't "demand" anything when he's a tiny bear that isn't growing. As the game goes on and you get more Intangible Virtues or buffers, you want to start playing token generators and you don't want to waste time playing non-evasive guys like more champions or gather when you have options like Midnight and Souls in your hand.
Shrine of the Loyal Legions:
The increase of UB Control and U/B colors in general makes this card even more playable since they have almost no good way to dealing with the card once it's resolved. I know we have a lot of 2 drops a lot but you just have to play smart and think mid game. What will get me more benefits next turn? 2 turns from now? Anthem or Shrine right now? This card really helps mid/late game like this deck is suppose to.
Rally the Peasants:
Sorins +1/+1 permanent is amazing. There's no doubt about that. However for it's "sorcery speed" play and non-explosiveness it always feels just too slow or like I would rather play another token generator, Rally the Peasants, leave mana up for Moorland Haunt at their EoT if I felt they were going to board wipe or Vault.
Reasoning: Tokens is a midrange deck. At least thats the way I feel it excels the most. Early game I'm chumping with Doomed Travelers or Gathers and playing Anthems when I can. Around mid game I blowup with Lingering Souls + FB or a huge swing with all my creatures + Rally or Hero of Bladehold. From our testing Rally proved extremely effective.
If there were any changes to the deck I would make other than the ones I already mentioned it would be -1 Gather (not as good w/o the 4x Champions) and +1 Shrine or Singleton Doomblade/GFTT/Dismember.
Conclusion: This deck runs very smoothly with the lands. Moorland Haunt is great. However, in the end, the removal of champion for a card that is better suited towards the way the meta is shifting (U/B) makes the Moorland Haunt weaker. Removing 4 creatures the deck would want to bring back (even though it's late game) makes it not as great. I still had a creature every time in the GY when I hit Moorland Haunt though and with the increase of UB zombies I may be testing Blade Splicer in the MB soon, we will see. With the current changes to the deck I would rather play the BWg version of the deck rather than BWu. If you keep in the Champions and they "work" for you, then I would highly suggest the BWu version I have in my OP. It's IMO much better than splashing green just to FB Ray of Revelation...
What about for card advantage/searching?
Ponder, Forbidden alch or something like that?
For more U I would probably need to rework the mana base to have more U sources.
If I did I would maybe consider ponder but not Alch or Think Twice as we are tapping out so often and rarely caring to leave mana open since we dont have counters. Most lists only run Midnight Haunting as their instant.
I'm thinking I will splash blue to run 4x Drogskol Captains + 2x Moorland Haunt, with most of my blue coming from U/B duals. Maybe Ponder. Although my concerns is that I won't have many creatures in the GY for Moorland Haunt.
Drogskol Captain will still benefit from Honor of the Pure correct?
11x Plains
4x Swamp
1x Evolving Wilds
4x Isolated Chapel
3x Vault of the Archangel
Instant (5)
2x Doom Blade
3x Midnight Haunting
Planeswalker (4)
3x Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
Artifact (1)
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
Enchantment (11)
3x Oblivion Ring
4x Honor of the Pure
4x Intangible Virtue
Sorcery (10)
4x Gather the Townsfolk
2x Increasing Devotion
4x Lingering Souls
Creature (7)
3x Hero of Bladehold
4x Champion of the Parish
This is how I am running the deck right now. I love the way this deck flows. Even though it works well I am always tinkering with it and right now I am thinking of dropping 1x FAF and maybe 1x Sorin, Lord of Innistrad and adding 2x Mirran Crusader in. I may start it off as a sideboard. But I am also liking Grand Abolisher and wondering where that can be added in. (and what needs to be taken out)
4 snapcaster mage
4 lingering souls
4 midnight haunting
2 gather the townsfolk
4 ponder
4 gitaxian probe
3 go for the throat
3 mana leak
2 runechanter's pike
4 seachrome coast
4 darkslick shores
2 moorland haunt
4 glacial fortress
2 drowned catacomb
6 island
This ^
We do not have enough permanents to get consistent use out of the Moorland Haunt in my opinion.
I would LOVE to incorporate moorland haunt into the deck. Unfortunately, it simply makes the mana base too sketchy with a typical Wb list. The only way I see it working is by making the deck WUb, lightly splashing black for lingering souls.
Champion of the Parish needs to go if youre going to run the captain. Tribal lords do not belong in decks where half of your creatures arent in the tribe. Choose one or the other. However, dropping the champion costs you your primary target for the moorland. Another red flag.
Phantasmal Image is a highly appealing card alongside Moorland Haunt because it eliminates those pesky legendaries and responds well to control players late game.
After all the breaking down and adjustments you would have to do to accommodate the blue mana, you basically have a WUB spirit token deck, which was an archetype all in its own not too long ago.
TL;DR- The blue would be really nice, but the only way to make it consistent is to dip heavily into blue, making it a whole other deck.
Something like this-
2x Sword of War and Peace
Creatures
2x Hero of Bladehold
4x Doomed Traveler
3x Drogskol Captain
2x Phantasmal Image
Enchantments
4x Honor of the Pure
2x Oblivion Ring
4x Intangible Virtue
2x Darkslick Shores
3x Seachrome Coast
4x Glacial Fortress
7x Plains
4x Isolated Chapel
2x Moorland Haunt
2x Vault of the Archangel
4x Midnight Haunting
4x Gather the Townsfolk
4x Lingering Souls
After all that, I see it as a less effective version of Wb tokens. =T
WBSorin's ArmyWB
RRRRDWRRR
RGWerewolvesRG
EDH/Commander:
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR(Multiplayer Competitive Primer and Beginner's Guide)
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR (1v1 Competitive Primer)
BSkithiryx, the Blight DragonB(1v1 Shotgun Venom)