the match up is definitely 60-40 pre-board post board goes to about 65-35 side in purges, additional fiend hunters, and mana leaks and your golden in my experience
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"Unfortunately, all of my test animals have died or escaped, so i shall be the final subject. I feel no fear. This is a momentous night."
--Laboratory notes, final entry
1 mana for it, and perma makes their gw useless, vs 1 time use of nihil and no black to draw.
If by "perma" you mean "temporarily until it's removed and the graveyard is still intact", then yes, it "perma" hoses the graveyard MUCH better than nihil spellbomb, which actually DOES perma hose their graveyard, regardless of black mana for a mise .....
If by "perma" you mean "temporarily until it's removed and the graveyard is still intact", then yes, it "perma" hoses the graveyard MUCH better than nihil spellbomb, which actually DOES perma hose their graveyard, regardless of black mana for a mise .....
i would like to be pointed at UB Zombie's heavy artifact removal, as i seem oblivious...
i would like to be pointed at UB Zombie's heavy artifact removal, as i seem oblivious...
Then you deserve to lose.
I am the UB zombie player coming here to look at what U/W humans sides in, and if your answer to my threats are grafdiggers cage i all i can do is give a hearty thanks.
I am the UB zombie player coming here to look at what U/W humans sides in, and if your answer to my threats are grafdiggers cage i all i can do is give a hearty thanks.
As a UB zombie player, how do you remove Grafdigger's Cage?
Anywho, I like siding in Timely Reinforcements, but with UW Humans I like siding in Timely against most decks that run creatures. It's such good value with Honor of the Pure there's no reason not to. I played against U/B Zombies in Swiss and quarterfinals at game day. Each time I boarded in 1x Purge, 1x Sword of Feast and Famine, 3x Timely Reinforcement. Of that, I saw Timely both game 2s and Sword of Feast and Famine once. They were both good.
against U/b sombies i side in purges, and timely and let my mainboard threats eat it alive. My sideboard changes week to week when i am running spell bombs, i side those in
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"Unfortunately, all of my test animals have died or escaped, so i shall be the final subject. I feel no fear. This is a momentous night."
--Laboratory notes, final entry
I am the UB zombie player coming here to look at what U/W humans sides in, and if your answer to my threats are grafdiggers cage i all i can do is give a hearty thanks.
i deserve to lose for asking a question?
of course my sideboards will probably feature grafdigger's cage ALONG with celestial purge and elite inquisitor. Last UB zombie player i matched up against scooped up t4 after elite inquisitor, mirran crusader, mirran crusader
Steel Sabotage seems just fine. Great way to stop artifacts in general with a lower curve deck. If I was seriously concerned about them myself, I'd even play them in my side with this deck. Would require more blue sources, and that would make the WW 2-drops harder to play. Something to think about though.
i deserve to lose for asking a question?
of course my sideboards will probably feature grafdigger's cage ALONG with celestial purge and elite inquisitor. Last UB zombie player i matched up against scooped up t4 after elite inquisitor, mirran crusader, mirran crusader
Purges are fine, inquisitor and cage are among the weaker things you can bring to bear. But hey, if you insist it's a good idea, then far be it from me to attempt to dissuade you further.
But grafdiggers cage is still incorrect until rotation.
Purges are fine, inquisitor and cage are among the weaker things you can bring to bear. But hey, if you insist it's a good idea, then far be it from me to attempt to dissuade you further.
But grafdiggers cage is still incorrect until rotation.
Where do you get your experience, exactly? Elite Inquisitor is a first strike vigilance 2/2 for 2cmc. This makes it a must-answer threat against most aggro decks, including zombies. And seeing as aggro is the current trend in this meta, he is a great inclusion. Also, almost any curve in the deck that is Champ/Traveler into Inquisitor will either force a wipe, or draw out removals earlier than they would want, paving the way for your Crusaders and what have you.
Well the pissing contest should be over soon..............
Anyway I play against a lot of both kinds of decks. Tehre are a few top teir U/W humans decks in my local meta and about 6-7 UB zombies. (my best friend and most common testing partner is among the second)
I typically see UW humand thrash UB zombies. If the zombies get a really good had vs humans okay hand they can take it. But if a deck is playing (after sideboarding) 4x Mirran Crusader and 4x Elite Inquisitor then there is really no chance for the zombies in a race.
There really isn't that much artifact removal in UB zombies. BR zombies yes but not UB. so Grafdigger tends to shut them down for a bit at least. Celetstial purge just removes so much to quickly. and an Angelic Destiny + Geist combo just........just ends it.
1x SOFAF ( was thinking about going 1x SOWAP, 1x SOFAF main but with the popularity of tokens still and mirror, might as well keep 2x SOWAP main and let the 2x Elite Inquisitors be my maindeck hose against zombies)
2x Spellbomb
1x Graff Cage
2x Celestial Purge
In theory it should be an easy match up, the only reason for the 2 main deck Elite Inquisitors is that im goign to a SCG Super IQ this sunday and I feel alot of zombies are going to be there.
Where do you get your experience, exactly? Elite Inquisitor is a first strike vigilance 2/2 for 2cmc. This makes it a must-answer threat against most aggro decks, including zombies. And seeing as aggro is the current trend in this meta, he is a great inclusion. Also, almost any curve in the deck that is Champ/Traveler into Inquisitor will either force a wipe, or draw out removals earlier than they would want, paving the way for your Crusaders and what have you.
Hundreds of games on mtgo actually. And yeah, great idea, hinge your whole defense on a card that dies to every removal under the sun, and i run a LOT of it .... good going.
..... But if a deck is playing (after sideboarding) 4x Mirran Crusader and 4x Elite Inquisitor then there is really no chance for the zombies in a race.
There really isn't that much artifact removal in UB zombies. BR zombies yes but not UB. so Grafdigger tends to shut them down for a bit at least. Celetstial purge just removes so much to quickly. and an Angelic Destiny + Geist combo just........just ends it.
Ratchet bomb makes the cage worthless. And 4x black suns zenith says hi to mirran crusader. Really, i'm not trying to piss on anyones parade, but really, grafdiggers cage is GARBAGE until rotation. Nihil spellbomb is strictly better in EVERY conceivable way. EVERY way. So, if your plan is to put those in and LEAVE MY GRAVYARD INTACT, when i semi rely on it, then hey, by all means, cage away. Meanwhile, 2 more zenith's and 4 ratchet bombs ARE coming in to ruin that.
I'm not sure what the debate is over when the argument is clearly wrong in all possible ways.
Fact: cage is EASY to remove with ratchet bomb. or shatter, or beast within or naturalise or glissas scorn or manic vandal or crush or ..... well i think you get the picture ....
Fact: with all the human/token decks running around, 4x ratchet bomb in the side is a good idea
Fact: cage leaves the graveyard in play after it's gone.
Fact: nihil spellbomb destroys graveyards, ruining any graveyard plan that resided there.
So, the "pissing contest" can end if some of us are willing to admit that UNTIL ROTATION, nihil spellbomb is far and away superior at thwarting graveyard strategies than grafdiggers cage EVEN IF YOU AREN'T RUNNING BLACK LANDS, which, i'm not sure, but i THINK that Isolated Chapel is still a card if you're that worried about getting all you can from it, which, after considering the above facts renders the question of black mana producers moot; it STILL does a better job at ending your opponents plans than the cage.
After rotation, when the cage is the only gy hate option remaining, then feel free to run it; it's better than nothing.
If your going to play Inquisitor to force a wipe is loyal cathar not THAT much better.
Think about it. Against wolf run what are they gonna do against turn 1 doomed traveller turn 2 loyal cathar. sweep it? great not i lost a 1/1 and a 2/2 vigilance for a 1/1 flier and a 2/1 non-blocker and u lost a card. cool answer bro.
seriously Inquisitor isn't the answer RIGHT NOW. After rotation he'll be huge. RIGHT NOW he's bad. Ill take my Cathars and go.
Well Im a zombie player, coming here to give a little advice, but not sure how well it will be received considering the other zombie player's attitude...
Anyway.
Mirran crusader is definitly the best card against us, so much is obvious. Its not quite as good vs Br zombies though, so thats something to keep in mind.
Elite inquisitor is sweet, but most of the time isnt all that hard to remove though. Making your creatures immune to removal scares us a lot more than you just having a good creature that can be go for the throated, doom bladed, tragic slipped, and so on.
Fiend hunter is a double edged sword, you have to be quite careful when using him, otherwise, zombies can just kill him, and then get back a messenger, clear of its +1 counter, and back for another 4 lifeloss.
Oring and purge are way better than he is at dealing with threats permanently.
Sofaf is also quite amazing, along with angelic destiny if you ever manage to safely land it on something.
Both spellbombs and grafdigger's cages are pretty bad against us imo. You already have access to purges and orings to deal with our stuff permanently, but these artifacts dont really deal with on board stuff at all, and they are card disadvantage.
Also, another thing to mention is that most zombie decks nowdays tend to SB in a number of black suns zenith, and you need to be aware of that. I know most already are, but still, putting it out there, since Ive played vs quite a few humans who just played out their entire hand post SB, only to get completely owned by a zenith and lose.
I agree on playing out your entire hand, bad move. After reading these posts I think I have came up with this for the Super IQ sunday.
I am not certian if I should split my two MD swords like
1x SOWAP
1x SOFAF
or
2x SOWAP as it is now. Seems like I can go one of each and an extra SOWAP in teh sideboard for tokens and mirror. I guess it comes down to what I expect or fear more. Tokens,mirror or Zombies
Fiend Hunter can be a liability in this match if you use him wrong. You can't go willy nilly and Fiend Hunt away, if you do use him, do not use him on a messenger unless its a desperate move to win the game. You do not want him bouncing back. If you run Thalia, I would say that she is the better choice, as she can play the attrition war and win with there guys.
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In my experience we're 60/40 but i'd like to get some other opinions
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
--Laboratory notes, final entry
grafdiggers cage is TERRIBLE. It won't be after rotation, but currently nihil spellbomb > grafdiggers cage.
from the SB i just take in 2 celestial purge for 2 lawkeeper.
"The problem isn't when Scissors says Rock is overpowered, it's when Paper says it is."
-Mark Rosewater
If by "perma" you mean "temporarily until it's removed and the graveyard is still intact", then yes, it "perma" hoses the graveyard MUCH better than nihil spellbomb, which actually DOES perma hose their graveyard, regardless of black mana for a mise .....
I board in 1x SoFaF, 1 more oring for 3 and I have 3x Fiend Hunters MB. Purge may go back in SB if these become to popular around here.
i would like to be pointed at UB Zombie's heavy artifact removal, as i seem oblivious...
Then you deserve to lose.
I am the UB zombie player coming here to look at what U/W humans sides in, and if your answer to my threats are grafdiggers cage i all i can do is give a hearty thanks.
Don't forget this guy Elite Inquisitor if your meta gets to swarmed with them.
You should already have a couple Timely's SB anyway. This really negates Messenger life loss, not to mention your 2/2 soldiers with a honor in play.
As a UB zombie player, how do you remove Grafdigger's Cage?
Anywho, I like siding in Timely Reinforcements, but with UW Humans I like siding in Timely against most decks that run creatures. It's such good value with Honor of the Pure there's no reason not to. I played against U/B Zombies in Swiss and quarterfinals at game day. Each time I boarded in 1x Purge, 1x Sword of Feast and Famine, 3x Timely Reinforcement. Of that, I saw Timely both game 2s and Sword of Feast and Famine once. They were both good.
--Laboratory notes, final entry
i deserve to lose for asking a question?
of course my sideboards will probably feature grafdigger's cage ALONG with celestial purge and elite inquisitor. Last UB zombie player i matched up against scooped up t4 after elite inquisitor, mirran crusader, mirran crusader
Purges are fine, inquisitor and cage are among the weaker things you can bring to bear. But hey, if you insist it's a good idea, then far be it from me to attempt to dissuade you further.
But grafdiggers cage is still incorrect until rotation.
Where do you get your experience, exactly? Elite Inquisitor is a first strike vigilance 2/2 for 2cmc. This makes it a must-answer threat against most aggro decks, including zombies. And seeing as aggro is the current trend in this meta, he is a great inclusion. Also, almost any curve in the deck that is Champ/Traveler into Inquisitor will either force a wipe, or draw out removals earlier than they would want, paving the way for your Crusaders and what have you.
Anyway I play against a lot of both kinds of decks. Tehre are a few top teir U/W humans decks in my local meta and about 6-7 UB zombies. (my best friend and most common testing partner is among the second)
I typically see UW humand thrash UB zombies. If the zombies get a really good had vs humans okay hand they can take it. But if a deck is playing (after sideboarding) 4x Mirran Crusader and 4x Elite Inquisitor then there is really no chance for the zombies in a race.
There really isn't that much artifact removal in UB zombies. BR zombies yes but not UB. so Grafdigger tends to shut them down for a bit at least. Celetstial purge just removes so much to quickly. and an Angelic Destiny + Geist combo just........just ends it.
4x Mirran Crusader
3x Fiend Hunter
2x Elite Inquisitor
2x Oring
all these hose them or stop there undying.
Sideboard I have
1x SOFAF ( was thinking about going 1x SOWAP, 1x SOFAF main but with the popularity of tokens still and mirror, might as well keep 2x SOWAP main and let the 2x Elite Inquisitors be my maindeck hose against zombies)
2x Spellbomb
1x Graff Cage
2x Celestial Purge
In theory it should be an easy match up, the only reason for the 2 main deck Elite Inquisitors is that im goign to a SCG Super IQ this sunday and I feel alot of zombies are going to be there.
Hundreds of games on mtgo actually. And yeah, great idea, hinge your whole defense on a card that dies to every removal under the sun, and i run a LOT of it .... good going.
Run mirran crusader, i fear that much more.
Ratchet bomb makes the cage worthless. And 4x black suns zenith says hi to mirran crusader. Really, i'm not trying to piss on anyones parade, but really, grafdiggers cage is GARBAGE until rotation. Nihil spellbomb is strictly better in EVERY conceivable way. EVERY way. So, if your plan is to put those in and LEAVE MY GRAVYARD INTACT, when i semi rely on it, then hey, by all means, cage away. Meanwhile, 2 more zenith's and 4 ratchet bombs ARE coming in to ruin that.
I'm not sure what the debate is over when the argument is clearly wrong in all possible ways.
Fact: cage is EASY to remove with ratchet bomb. or shatter, or beast within or naturalise or glissas scorn or manic vandal or crush or ..... well i think you get the picture ....
Fact: with all the human/token decks running around, 4x ratchet bomb in the side is a good idea
Fact: cage leaves the graveyard in play after it's gone.
Fact: nihil spellbomb destroys graveyards, ruining any graveyard plan that resided there.
So, the "pissing contest" can end if some of us are willing to admit that UNTIL ROTATION, nihil spellbomb is far and away superior at thwarting graveyard strategies than grafdiggers cage EVEN IF YOU AREN'T RUNNING BLACK LANDS, which, i'm not sure, but i THINK that Isolated Chapel is still a card if you're that worried about getting all you can from it, which, after considering the above facts renders the question of black mana producers moot; it STILL does a better job at ending your opponents plans than the cage.
After rotation, when the cage is the only gy hate option remaining, then feel free to run it; it's better than nothing.
But currently that is not the case.
Think about it. Against wolf run what are they gonna do against turn 1 doomed traveller turn 2 loyal cathar. sweep it? great not i lost a 1/1 and a 2/2 vigilance for a 1/1 flier and a 2/1 non-blocker and u lost a card. cool answer bro.
seriously Inquisitor isn't the answer RIGHT NOW. After rotation he'll be huge. RIGHT NOW he's bad. Ill take my Cathars and go.
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
I agree on playing out your entire hand, bad move. After reading these posts I think I have came up with this for the Super IQ sunday.
I am not certian if I should split my two MD swords like
1x SOWAP
1x SOFAF
or
2x SOWAP as it is now. Seems like I can go one of each and an extra SOWAP in teh sideboard for tokens and mirror. I guess it comes down to what I expect or fear more. Tokens,mirror or Zombies
Current sideboarding:
+ 1 Nihil spellbomb
+ 2 Celestial purge
+ 2 Surgical extraction
+ 1 Day of judgement
- 3 Thalia
- 3 Mana leak
Is it better to keep Thalia for her first strike and remove 3 Fiend hunter?