I think a fun idea would be building a deck around him and fling and dodge as a one turn kill. Just a ton of burn, permission and jank like artful dodge and turn aside.
You could run four GitaxIan and four gut shot, some other really cheap stuff, so you could go for the twenty damage fling or attack with counters up.
Basically you remove or counter every threat, and win with devils in a single blow on turn 7.
I mean it's janky as hell, but it could be good enuff for fnm.
Eh, seems flimsy. You probably couldn't jam enough countermagic into a deck like that to make it reliable.
Goldfishing with this Charmbreaker Devils since morning, included him as a one-of in stock Frites replacing Llanowar Elves.
With Frites, you can actualy hard cast it and since its a one-of, you can always ditch him to Faithless Looting to be a tertiary target for Unburial Rites if you absolutely have nothing to reanimate ATM, and chances are, you will be getting value out of him the next upkeep because you will be returning Mulches/Tracker's Instincts/Faithless Lootings or extra Unburial Rites!
I can't see his home being in Frites, maybe in RUG?
That is what I am playing right now, but I don't know why I would ever replace Inferno Titan with him... maybe it is worth a shot, card advantage is card advantage, but every turn clearing out blockers is great.
You don't replace any Fatty in Frites (stock) main. You'll be replacing that lone Llanowar Elf in the main bumping the total Fatty to 9 (4 Elesh Norn + 4 <Titan/Wurmcoil> + Devil).
After messing around with him some, he is funny, can be painful and sneak wins, but not gamebreaking like the titans. A Grixis control shell with him as a finisher is doable, but Grave Titan is still a better finisher. Maybe in a strict U/R deck that doesn't emphasize a ton of card draw outside of this guy and Think Twice? Gain so much value?
After messing around with him some, he is funny, can be painful and sneak wins, but not gamebreaking like the titans. A Grixis control shell with him as a finisher is doable, but Grave Titan is still a better finisher. Maybe in a strict U/R deck that doesn't emphasize a ton of card draw outside of this guy and Think Twice? Gain so much value?
I can only speak for him in the deck I've played him in, (W/R Hippo-Blade, first link in my sig.) but he does some funny stuff with cards like Slagstorm and Timely Reinforcements. Timely is ESPECIALLY hilarious because in a matchup where they have very few control elements, they pretty much enter scoop phase when you can play Timely every time the proper conditions are met. Not dying to Slagstorm is also relevant, cause you can usually board wipe with Slag and get in there for 8 with Charmbreaker.
I think they only "Meh" card I've got in my deck that he can recur is Day of Judgment, but even that isn't THAT bad.
It seems like the more time I spend looking at him, the better he does usually get. He is also in a color that is wonderful to get that extra mileage out of and is far better than that one guy.
I played this guy in block as the lone finisher in a control deck [URB]. He's fantastic, except he dies to almost everything. So you have to protect him.
He's funny and gamebreaking if he stays alive. Not as good as Titans [frown] because they CITP stuff, but good.
I feel he works best as a CA engine. Don't try to give him unblockability like these other people have been doing - it's just janky. Go for the Throating a blocker and swinging for 8 is just fine.
He'll never be as good as the titans, but hopefully after they cycle he won't have to be. I like the card, even though it's not the best. Have had some stupid one-swing KO blowouts in block.
my mouth is full of winsome lies -
and eyes are full of death besides
but luckily the soul is wise -
it sees beyond my blindness and
forced failure makes a better guise,
so as i come again alive,
it feels like life's a decent plan
"If you're Havengul problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems and a Lich ain't one." - FSM
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
When the Titans rotate I could maybe justify playing him. Pretty sure there's still better 6 drops, however.
Yes, but if you read the OP, it is how you would play him, not if the Titans are better.
@Sam: I think I agree with you and the, "Why run kinda janky cards?" proposition (in regards to Artful Dodge). So, did you just run a lot of removal? Can you post some of your more favorable interactions?
In a deck with only 4 instant/sorceries, it's pretty easy to set it up.
You should be prepared to have a 4/4 for 6 in that case... Your link shows 13, btw.
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"If you're Havengul problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems and a Lich ain't one." - FSM
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
When the Titans rotate I could maybe justify playing him. Pretty sure there's still better 6 drops, however.
That's pretty sweet that you got the spoilers for the next 3 sets already and have seen that there are no superior 6 drops and that the Titans rotate out next October. I wish I got that kind of information.
While that is true, I can't spend all of my time playing him. I have a job...
Just curious, Madding, how much time have you spent playing with him?
I don't think it would take literally all of your time playing the card to realize its potential. A couple of match blowouts would suffice, I think. I'd give it 5-10 minutes of your time, especially if you want to actually have an argument.
6 drops living an entire turn is very rare these days, the thing is only a 4/4, the card is red, and the random clause is absolutely brutal. I've played against it in janky sorta newbish brews, shrugged when it hit the table, and killed the opponent as if it were never there. Forget the six drop slot, there are 3 drops in the format that make me sweat more than this guy.
And in true response to the first post's question, if I were forced to play him, I'd hope my limited deck would accommodate him in my build. The topic is tagged for general card discussion, not specific scenarios where I'm forced to play the card, or someone dies. It's very fair to get a bunch of responses actually discussing the card (and its unplayableness), rather than responses saying "well, if I were forced to I guess I'd play him as a one of in a UB Zombies deck and hope to kill my opponent before I ever saw the card in my hand."
@Wozzeck: It isn't about saying that you think it is bad. That isn't the goal of this, the goal is to find ways that make him great or at least playable. It seems like most other people have understood that we aren't looking for someone to say that they think he is bad, or that they are slipping him as a one of in a deck he clearly doesn't fit in, or that it is in a limited deck that forced him, rather, to try to encourage creativity rather than stifle it.
Maybe if you spent 5-10 minutes trying him out in some designated builds that would work well with him, you may find he isn't as bad as you have labeled him. Is he Grave Titan or Inferno Titan? Of course not, but is he playable? That is what we are trying to find out. To 6 drops living being very rare, it all depends on the build you are playing and what you are playing against. In my RUG deck, 6 drops live all the time, mostly because I run counterspells and other control to remove their removal. And is Mirran Crusader intimidating as well? Sometimes, I mean, shockdispatches him into oblivion, but he sees play.
Don't discount a card because you don't think it can work, rather, try to make it work. Just because you are a Spike doesn't mean that all other players who enjoy building decks and finding good, creative ways to play the game are stupid or inferior for it. Remember, someone found out that Stoneforge Mystic with Sword of Feast and Famine and Squadron Hawk played well together, and someone else probably told them that it was unplayable jank. There is nothing wrong with looking at bad cards to find good interactions, so calm down son.
When I saw the amount of views and posts in this forum and realized I was not in the limited forum .... let's just say its really hard to take this site seriously sometimes!
Hero of bladehold cost 4 cmc and if she gets to live a turn she wins you the game
Any of the titans provide ETB value and dodge more removal than charmbreakers, Most of the titans give you an ETB about as powerful (and in some cases moreso) as your average spell with no further mana investment
Eh, seems flimsy. You probably couldn't jam enough countermagic into a deck like that to make it reliable.
Because we care about facts.
Like I said it's janky, but could be fun
Another good thing is once he lands, he can keep getting you the counters back.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
With Frites, you can actualy hard cast it and since its a one-of, you can always ditch him to Faithless Looting to be a tertiary target for Unburial Rites if you absolutely have nothing to reanimate ATM, and chances are, you will be getting value out of him the next upkeep because you will be returning Mulches/Tracker's Instincts/Faithless Lootings or extra Unburial Rites!
That is what I am playing right now, but I don't know why I would ever replace Inferno Titan with him... maybe it is worth a shot, card advantage is card advantage, but every turn clearing out blockers is great.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
I can only speak for him in the deck I've played him in, (W/R Hippo-Blade, first link in my sig.) but he does some funny stuff with cards like Slagstorm and Timely Reinforcements. Timely is ESPECIALLY hilarious because in a matchup where they have very few control elements, they pretty much enter scoop phase when you can play Timely every time the proper conditions are met. Not dying to Slagstorm is also relevant, cause you can usually board wipe with Slag and get in there for 8 with Charmbreaker.
I think they only "Meh" card I've got in my deck that he can recur is Day of Judgment, but even that isn't THAT bad.
Because we care about facts.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
Just curious, Madding, how much time have you spent playing with him?
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
Pretty sure I won't be changing my mind about recurrable Timely Reinforcements.
Because we care about facts.
He's funny and gamebreaking if he stays alive. Not as good as Titans [frown] because they CITP stuff, but good.
I feel he works best as a CA engine. Don't try to give him unblockability like these other people have been doing - it's just janky. Go for the Throating a blocker and swinging for 8 is just fine.
He'll never be as good as the titans, but hopefully after they cycle he won't have to be. I like the card, even though it's not the best. Have had some stupid one-swing KO blowouts in block.
and eyes are full of death besides
but luckily the soul is wise -
it sees beyond my blindness and
forced failure makes a better guise,
so as i come again alive,
it feels like life's a decent plan
If you're lucky enough to hit the Timely.
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
Ashcoat Bear of Limited
In a deck with only 4 instant/sorceries, it's pretty easy to set it up.
Because we care about facts.
Yes, but if you read the OP, it is how you would play him, not if the Titans are better.
@Sam: I think I agree with you and the, "Why run kinda janky cards?" proposition (in regards to Artful Dodge). So, did you just run a lot of removal? Can you post some of your more favorable interactions?
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
You should be prepared to have a 4/4 for 6 in that case... Your link shows 13, btw.
"In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."
Ashcoat Bear of Limited
That's pretty sweet that you got the spoilers for the next 3 sets already and have seen that there are no superior 6 drops and that the Titans rotate out next October. I wish I got that kind of information.
Unique instant/sorcery. I forgot about Devil's Play, though, so 5.
Also, the only "weak" recursion of any of those spells is Day of Judgment.
Because we care about facts.
I don't think it would take literally all of your time playing the card to realize its potential. A couple of match blowouts would suffice, I think. I'd give it 5-10 minutes of your time, especially if you want to actually have an argument.
6 drops living an entire turn is very rare these days, the thing is only a 4/4, the card is red, and the random clause is absolutely brutal. I've played against it in janky sorta newbish brews, shrugged when it hit the table, and killed the opponent as if it were never there. Forget the six drop slot, there are 3 drops in the format that make me sweat more than this guy.
And in true response to the first post's question, if I were forced to play him, I'd hope my limited deck would accommodate him in my build. The topic is tagged for general card discussion, not specific scenarios where I'm forced to play the card, or someone dies. It's very fair to get a bunch of responses actually discussing the card (and its unplayableness), rather than responses saying "well, if I were forced to I guess I'd play him as a one of in a UB Zombies deck and hope to kill my opponent before I ever saw the card in my hand."
Standard
BR Zombies RB
Modern
W Death and Taxes W
EDH
BUR Thraximundar, Stax is fun, DUR! RUB
GWB Doran, The Pimp Tower BWG
Maybe if you spent 5-10 minutes trying him out in some designated builds that would work well with him, you may find he isn't as bad as you have labeled him. Is he Grave Titan or Inferno Titan? Of course not, but is he playable? That is what we are trying to find out. To 6 drops living being very rare, it all depends on the build you are playing and what you are playing against. In my RUG deck, 6 drops live all the time, mostly because I run counterspells and other control to remove their removal. And is Mirran Crusader intimidating as well? Sometimes, I mean, shock dispatches him into oblivion, but he sees play.
Don't discount a card because you don't think it can work, rather, try to make it work. Just because you are a Spike doesn't mean that all other players who enjoy building decks and finding good, creative ways to play the game are stupid or inferior for it. Remember, someone found out that Stoneforge Mystic with Sword of Feast and Famine and Squadron Hawk played well together, and someone else probably told them that it was unplayable jank. There is nothing wrong with looking at bad cards to find good interactions, so calm down son.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
Hero of bladehold cost 4 cmc and if she gets to live a turn she wins you the game
Any of the titans provide ETB value and dodge more removal than charmbreakers, Most of the titans give you an ETB about as powerful (and in some cases moreso) as your average spell with no further mana investment
In what whacky format would this ever be good, what do you do get one or two uses out of it and then cast it for no effect over and over ...
One or two uses turns a meh board state into an excellent board state, and if you're behind in life totals suddenly you aren't behind anymore.
You don't keep casting it for no effect. It returns to your hand, giving you the option of holding it until it becomes relevant again.
Because we care about facts.