[SCD] Charmbreaker Devils

  • #1
    Charmbreaker Devils

    I know, this card isn't the best, however, Grixis has been getting some love recently, and this card is not mana intensive, and it can swing in for a lot of damage pretty easily. The reason why I like it so much is that if you are playing counters or removal or burn, he becomes incredibly good because you recur your removal/prevention of dying.

    Are there things that can make him decent?

    Please avoid "Bad card is bad" arguments, and instead, try to provide helpful resources that might work with him, specifically in Grixis colors, or RWB.

    Also, calling something "unplayable jank/garbage" isn't really helpful either. I know that this card isn't Inferno Titan, and I don't have a build where I am using him, but if you were forced to, how would you use him?

    Cards to keep in mind:
    Faithless Looting
    Desperate Ravings
    Brimstone Volley
    Fighting the Nightman, since 1988.

    MTGS egos at their finest.
    Thoughts on proxies:

    Quote from Shady Wolf

    My focus is on playing, and not how much my opponents and I earn.
  • #2
    Personally, I've always been a fan of cards like this since I made a Wee Dragonauts deck back in the day, so I want this to work. The biggest obstacle I see for Charmbreaker Devils is the fact that he doesn't have evasion. This means that you need either enough removal to keep the ground clear, or a way to give him evasion.

    To accommodate this, I'd see him in a UR deck that has a lot of burn, bounce, and card draw. I'd keep it creature light, maybe running 2 - 3 of him, 4 Chandra's Phoenix to maximize the value you get from burn, and 4 Snapcaster Mage to give you double value out of your spells. The rest of the deck would need to be low costed instants and sorceries like Shock, Ponder, Disperse, Mana Leak, and Slagstorm.

    Alternatively, I could see him being good as a 1 or 2 of in a BR Heartless Summoning deck. A 3/3 for 4 with his ability is very good, and a 2/2 for 2 is crazy. If you're bringing back a Unburial Rites or Faithless Looting every turn, things are gonna get dumb fast.
  • #3
    Artful Dodge seems like a pretty good card to give him evasion and pump him.
  • #4
    I had the opportunity to use him as a finisher in a limited game once, and I'd say the best way to use him is the abuse cheap cards like Dream Twist and Faithless Looting. If your opponent doesn't have any defenders then the Devils can easily steal a win.
    Mafia League Head Judge
    (broken, will fix)
  • #5
    Just throwing some ideas out there. I like the draw cards you've got, but I think another way to go about this is trying to replay the same spell each turn.

    Grasp of Phantoms can draw lock an opponent that wants to play creatures.

    Mitotic Manipulation could get out of hand if you got to play it every turn.

    Timely Reinforcements should be able to draw games out long enough to abuse the devils enough to covert that to a win. Snapcaster is great for exiling cards in your GY that you no longer want to return.

    Geosurge could help you get it out, and if you do it comes back to power out the next biggest thing you can play.
  • #6
    I do like the idea of draw spells, like Divination every turn... dirty.

    Also, some pumps might not be bad, like Mutagenic Growth. Black removal doesn't seem bad either. Artful Dodge is also pretty good. Casting that twice is 16 damage, with no other instants/sorceries... Ponder of course.

    What are some of the best red cards to use? Faithless Looting, but what else?

    OH YEAHHH!!!!!!!!!

    Artful dodge plus Assault strobe in 1 turn is GG.
    Fighting the Nightman, since 1988.

    MTGS egos at their finest.
    Thoughts on proxies:

    Quote from Shady Wolf

    My focus is on playing, and not how much my opponents and I earn.
  • #7
    I'm working on a grixis list with tragic slip, dissipate, and tribute to hunger. I'm also running a couple unburial rites to recur the devils. The deck kind of sucks, since you need other win conditions, but I'm going to explore more and post results. Not big on the idea of needing the devils to win, like in the artful dodge scenario.

    Olivia Voldaren might work well in conjunction with the devils as another wincon.

    Standard:
    Crypt Ghast Control

    Legacy:
    Cheeri0s
    The Mighty Quinn

    EDH:
    Ertai, The Corrupted

    Funny Quotes:

    Quote from Blastoderm
    I hope theres a Leviathan in this set. Or a Kraken.
    Quote from Drowning
    But would you release it?


    Quote from Lully
    I guess I will automatically pay for many of my drafts by 8th picking a shockland here and there...

  • #8
    Charmbreaker Devils with Artful Dodge wins in two attack phases on it's own. Swing + Dodge = 8 damage. Next turn, add Artful Dodge back to your hand. Cast it again and then flash it back to give Charmbreaker +8. Swing for 12 damage. 8+12=20.

    Seems legit to me. (And you could keep counter-mana open for both turns of that as long as Charmbreaker Devils actually resolved.)
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  • #9
    Quote from Dragonheart91
    Charmbreaker Devils with Artful Dodge wins in two attack phases on it's own. Swing + Dodge = 8 damage. Next turn, add Artful Dodge back to your hand. Cast it again and then flash it back to give Charmbreaker +8. Swing for 12 damage. 8+12=20.

    Seems legit to me. (And you could keep counter-mana open for both turns of that as long as Charmbreaker Devils actually resolved.)


    This does sound legit. Still, turns 1-5 I expect 2-3 other spells to get cast that could randomlyy return to your hand.

    Standard:
    Crypt Ghast Control

    Legacy:
    Cheeri0s
    The Mighty Quinn

    EDH:
    Ertai, The Corrupted

    Funny Quotes:

    Quote from Blastoderm
    I hope theres a Leviathan in this set. Or a Kraken.
    Quote from Drowning
    But would you release it?


    Quote from Lully
    I guess I will automatically pay for many of my drafts by 8th picking a shockland here and there...

  • #10
    Dismember and Mutagenic Growth seem good. I'd add Vault Skirge to cheapen your curve and give Growth another nice target.
  • #11
    Divination, distress, tribute to hunger, tragic slip, disperse are all good targets for CHarmbreaker Devils IMO.

    Standard:
    Crypt Ghast Control

    Legacy:
    Cheeri0s
    The Mighty Quinn

    EDH:
    Ertai, The Corrupted

    Funny Quotes:

    Quote from Blastoderm
    I hope theres a Leviathan in this set. Or a Kraken.
    Quote from Drowning
    But would you release it?


    Quote from Lully
    I guess I will automatically pay for many of my drafts by 8th picking a shockland here and there...

  • #12
    I have my 4 waiting for the Titans to rotate. He is one of the many 6 drops that have been negated by a titan.

    Let's take one of the best case scenarios, and you constantly reoccur something like an incinerate. So for a two mana investment a turn, you get an incinerate and are attacking with a 8/4/
    For the same 2 mana investment, an inferno titan is a 8/6 with a jagged lightning and he also jagged lightnings something when he hits the board.

    Charmbreaker has the possibility of being a real good finisher, but only when the titans release their stranglehold.
    Koth of the Hammer + Bludgeon Brawl + Mycosynth Lattice

    =
    "Sup dawg! I herd u like mountains so I equipped a mountain on your mountain so your can swing with land while you swing with land!"
  • #13
    Apostle's Blessing? Similar to Artful Dodge, but at one colorless and can be cast to negate removal.


    Thanks to Heroes of the Planes Studios for the awesome sig!
  • #14
    Quote from sucreality
    Apostle's Blessing? Similar to Artful Dodge, but at one colorless and can be cast to negate removal.


    Was about to suggest the same. Honestly Artful Dodge is cute (before it came out I was thinking how cool Charmbreaker would be with Distortion Strike) but it's not really needed if you just give it protection from the colours they're playing, and the Blessing will protect it from Artifacts too. Control up until you have Devils out, cast blessing and Snapcaster it back, play 2 other spells of your choice, and profit. Seems like it could work in the right build to me.
  • #15
    Quote from jjdrew99
    This does sound legit. Still, turns 1-5 I expect 2-3 other spells to get cast that could randomlyy return to your hand.


    But you don't have to return the Artful Dodge. That was just an example. As long as you have enough mana to cast what you get back + flash back the Artful Dodge and preferably keep counter-spell mana open, you are golden. If you get back something actually good, that's just pure value.
    In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
    Quote from AsianInvasion
    I hate all of you and hope you all die.
  • #16
    Quote from Dragonheart91
    But you don't have to return the Artful Dodge. That was just an example. As long as you have enough mana to cast what you get back + flash back the Artful Dodge and preferably keep counter-spell mana open, you are golden. If you get back something actually good, that's just pure value.


    Very true, any card gotten back is value. But I'm not banking on artful dodge being the card to make charmbreakers good.

    Is there a forum for decklists yet?

    I'd like to post mine, but I know this is not the place. Even if I do, I'm sure I'll get a whole bunch of crap about how bad the card is, and "Why not play a titan instead?"

    Standard:
    Crypt Ghast Control

    Legacy:
    Cheeri0s
    The Mighty Quinn

    EDH:
    Ertai, The Corrupted

    Funny Quotes:

    Quote from Blastoderm
    I hope theres a Leviathan in this set. Or a Kraken.
    Quote from Drowning
    But would you release it?


    Quote from Lully
    I guess I will automatically pay for many of my drafts by 8th picking a shockland here and there...

  • #17
    Noticed this card during a "Standard Sealed" challenge at Grand Prix Kobe and it work incredibly good with phyrexian mana spells being able to dash out 12 damage easy when your opponent didn't have anything to respond to it.
    Now this was sealed yes, but with alot of flash back spells and draw like Gitaxian Probe I can see this do wonders.
  • #18
    Quote from jjdrew99
    Very true, any card gotten back is value. But I'm not banking on artful dodge being the card to make charmbreakers good.

    Is there a forum for decklists yet?

    I'd like to post mine, but I know this is not the place. Even if I do, I'm sure I'll get a whole bunch of crap about how bad the card is, and "Why not play a titan instead?"


    Ignore the haters! I'd like to see people's decklists cause I've liked this card since it was spoiled but I've never been able to make it work
  • #19
    Just look at my OP, reference that you don't want over the top negative critiques to that card. People should be respectful, but hey, this is the internet and people want to show their internet muscles. Let us know when you make it, I will post my list in there.
    Fighting the Nightman, since 1988.

    MTGS egos at their finest.
    Thoughts on proxies:

    Quote from Shady Wolf

    My focus is on playing, and not how much my opponents and I earn.
  • #20
    Ramp spells. It costs 6, and even afterwards you will get value from the ramp spells.
  • #21
    Assault Strobe and some evasion sorc.
  • #22
    Quote from SClone
    Ramp spells. It costs 6, and even afterwards you will get value from the ramp spells.


    Or your could cast Primeval Titan and win the game.
    "If you're Havengul problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems and a Lich ain't one." - FSM
    "In a world where money talks, silence is horrifying."

    Ashcoat Bear of Limited
  • #23
    Quote from Ulfsaar
    Or your could cast Primeval Titan and win the game.


    We are not discussing titans. We are discussing Charmbreaker Devils, because the card seems good, fun, and requires skill to play, unlike the decks with Primeval Titan. Yes, few 6 drops are worth playing if they are not 6/6 with an etb trigger and an attack trigger that are gamechanging. We are discussing how to play with Charmbreaker Devils and what kind of deck would use the card.

    I think the ramp idea is fine. Not sure I'd dedicate the deck to that, but I am wanting to play my deck with 4 pristine talisman. That may be overkill, but they pull you out of aggro games and ramp you. And with the devils you aren't going to randomly get your ramp back from your graveyard.

    Standard:
    Crypt Ghast Control

    Legacy:
    Cheeri0s
    The Mighty Quinn

    EDH:
    Ertai, The Corrupted

    Funny Quotes:

    Quote from Blastoderm
    I hope theres a Leviathan in this set. Or a Kraken.
    Quote from Drowning
    But would you release it?


    Quote from Lully
    I guess I will automatically pay for many of my drafts by 8th picking a shockland here and there...

  • #24
    Quote from jjdrew99
    We are not discussing titans. We are discussing Charmbreaker Devils, because the card seems good, fun, and requires skill to play, unlike the decks with Primeval Titan.


    Yes, it requires real skill to play with obviously worse cards than other options. It also requires real skill to randomly select the correct spell in the yard.

    Rolleyes

    We are discussing how to play with Charmbreaker Devils and what kind of deck would use the card.


    Here's the kind of decks that would use the card: EDH and super awesome kitchen table decks. Obviously, skill-less decks like the ones PV and Kibler play, wouldn't want something so skill intensive as Charmbreaker Devil.
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  • #25
    I like Charmbreaker Devils not attacking and establishing a soft lock with spells that either progress towards victory and can be cast usefully every turn without wasting a devil trigger on an empty graveyard or are a deterrent even if kept in hand.

    For example, sensible opponents fold before you run out of targets for Into the Maw of Hell.
    Good cards: Divination/Ponder/Gitaxian Probe/Jace's Ingenuity etc. (as support), Brimstone Volley, Spidery Grasp, Tribute to Hunger (eventually catching up with all decks but W/X tokens), Mana Leak/Dissipate/Cancel etc. (you cast them over and over and draw more), Divine Reckoning (if you have few creatures), any land destruction.
    Good cards post-sideboard: Celestial Purge, Revoke Existence, Ancient Grudge.
    Nicholas Cage, planeswalker
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